A few CB's who fit the Packers scheme

[RashanGary]

Early Round Candidates:
Aqib Talib Kansas 6006 202 4.45
Antoine Cason Arizona 6002 191 4.48
D. Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee St. 6014 184 4.33
Tracy Porter Indiana 5107 188 4.37


Later Round Possiblities
Dwight Lowery San Jose St. 5111 201 4.59
Zack Bowman Nebraska 6001 197 4.43
Darnell Terrell Missouri 6016 203 4.48
Terrell Thomas USC 6004 202 4.49



Ted Thompson always talks about liking CB's with ball skills so the first criteria was ball skills. Also, none of the CB's he brings in are under 5'11" so I used 5'10-1/2" as a limit. Then I got rid of guys who ran slower than 4.6 because I do think you need some speed if you are going to be left on an island the way our DB's often are. So here's the list of guys that fit the description of what Thompson say's he likes and what he's done so far.

[red]

i said it before and i'll say it again, when i was watching the combine, cromartie stood out from everyone else. he looks like a future stud

porter caught my eye a couple times

and talib looked very raw

[Tony Oday]

Unless they are from a small school and available in the 3rd round dont count on any of them :) hehe

[falco]

there is only one future HOF cb in this draft though...

[Charles Woodson]

i said it before and i'll say it again, when i was watching the combine, cromartie stood out from everyone else. he looks like a future stud

porter caught my eye a couple times

and talib looked very raw
I agree 100% with cromartie.
I havent looked at porter, what type of year did he have?

[Lurker64]

You missed Lee out of Auburn, he's probably the most physical corner in the draft, and his bump and run skills are reminiscent of Al Harris when he was with the Eagles. He's probably the corner in the draft that fits our system the best, and even though he's a "Second round grade", I could see us taking him in the first.

Patrick Lee, CB Auburn, 6'-0" 202 lbs, 4.42 40-yard dash.

Pros include: "A great natural athlete", "Very good size and bulk", "Excellent timed speed", "Tough and strong", "Plays a physical brand of football", "Good ball skills", "Has fluid hips to turn and run vertically".

[BallHawk]

Any opinions on Reggie Smith out of Oklahoma?

[Partial]

You missed Lee out of Auburn, he's probably the most physical corner in the draft, and his bump and run skills are reminiscent of Al Harris when he was with the Eagles. He's probably the corner in the draft that fits our system the best, and even though he's a "Second round grade", I could see us taking him in the first.

Patrick Lee, CB Auburn, 6'-0" 202 lbs, 4.42 40-yard dash.

Pros include: "A great natural athlete", "Very good size and bulk", "Excellent timed speed", "Tough and strong", "Plays a physical brand of football", "Good ball skills", "Has fluid hips to turn and run vertically".

I hope some of these guys start to fall. I could see TT using 2 of the first three picks on DB if he doesn't feel strongly about Bush, Blackmon or Williams. There are a lot of quality guys available.

[packrulz]

Here's the rankings from Scout.com.
http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2008

Interesting CB Cromartie is ranked ahead of RB Stewart, I think both will be gone when TT picks.



Page 1 >>
Pos Overall
Rank Rating Name Yr Ht/Wt/40 College Home
RB 1 Darren McFadden JR 6-2/210/4.45 Arkansas North Little Rock, AR
DT 2 Glenn Dorsey SR 6-1.5/313/- LSU Gonzales, LA
QB 3 Matt Ryan SR 6-5/224/4.90 Boston College Philadelphia, PA
DT 4 Sedrick Ellis SR 6-1/307/4.95 USC Chino, CA
DE 5 Chris Long SR 6-3.5/278/4.75 Virginia Charlottesville, VA
DE 6 Calais Campbell JR 6-7/280/4.75 Miami (FL) Denver, CO
OT 7 Jake Long SR 6-7/335/- Michigan Lapeer, MI
CB 8 Mike Jenkins SR 5-11/200/4.45 South Florida Bradenton, FL
OLB 9 Dan Connor SR 6-3/230/- Penn State Wallingford, PA
S 10 Kenny Phillips JR 6-2/210/4.50 Miami (FL) Miami, FL
MLB 11 Keith Rivers SR 6-3/237/4.60 USC Lake Mary, FL
OT 12 Chris Williams SR 6-6/317/5.30 Vanderbilt Baton Rouge, LA
OT 13 Jeff Otah SR 6-6.5/341/- Pittsburgh Wayne, PA
DE 14 Quentin Groves SR 6-3/252/4.43 Auburn Greenville, MS
CB 15 Aqib Talib JR 6-1/195/4.50 Kansas Richardson, TX
DE 16 Vernon Gholston JR 6-3/260/4.75 Ohio State Detroit, MI
OT 17 Ryan Clady JR 6-6/320/- Boise State Rialto, CA
CB 18 Leodis McKelvin SR 5-10.5/186/4.48 Troy Waycross, GA
WR 19 Malcolm Kelly JR 6-4/215/4.50 Oklahoma Longview, TX
CB 20 Terrell Thomas SR 6-1/200/4.50 USC Rancho Cucamonga, CA
DE 21 Derrick Harvey JR 6-4/260/4.75 Florida Greenbelt, MD
TE 22 Fred Davis SR 6-3.5/251/4.75 USC Toledo, OH
RB 23 Felix Jones JR 6-0/207/- Arkansas Tulsa, OK
WR 24 Devin Thomas JR 6-2/215/4.50 Michigan State
RB 25 Jamaal Charles JR 6-1/205/4.45 Texas Port Arthur, TX
RB 26 Rashard Mendenhall JR 5-10.5/215/4.55 Illinois Skokie, IL
OT 27 Carl Nicks SR 6-5/335/5.30 Nebraska Salinas, CA
CB 28 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie SR 6-1.5/183/4.47 Tennessee State Bradenton, FL
DT 29 Kentwan Balmer SR 6-4/295/5.15 North Carolina Weldon, NC
WR 30 Donnie Avery SR 5-10/184/4.33 Houston Alief, TX
WR 31 Mario Manningham JR 6-0/187/- Michigan Warren, OH
TE 32 Martellus Bennett JR 6-6/250/4.75 Texas A&M Houston, TX
OG 33 Oniel Cousins SR 6-4/302/5.04 UTEP Fullerton, CA
RB 34 Jonathan Stewart JR 5-11/230/- Oregon Olympia, WA
OT 35 Sam Baker SR 6-5/314/5.10 USC Tustin, CA
DE 36 Lawrence Jackson SR 6-5/270/4.90 USC Inglewood, CA
RB 37 Chris Johnson SR 5-10/201/4.29 East Carolina Orlando, FL
RB 38 Steve Slaton JR 5-10/200/4.50 West Virginia Fairless Hills, PA
WR 39 Earl Bennett JR 6-1/202/- Vanderbilt Birmingham, AL
OLB 40 Tavares Gooden SR 6-2/235/4.55 Miami (FL) Fort Lauderdale, FL
QB 41 Joe Flacco SR 6-6/237/5.00 Delaware Audubon, NJ
OT 42 Anthony Collins JR 6-6/315/5.20 Kansas Beaumont, TX
QB 43 Chad Henne SR 6-3/245/5.00 Michigan West Lawn, PA
MLB 44 Beau Bell SR 6-2/253/4.63 UNLV
DT 45 Pat Sims JR 6-4/315/5.00 Auburn Fort Lauderdale, FL
TE 46 Dustin Keller SR 6-2/251/4.70 Purdue Lafayette, IN
DE 47 Chris Ellis SR 6-4/257/4.70 Virginia Tech Hampton, VA
DT 48 Dre Moore SR 6-3.5/308/- Maryland Charlotte, NC
WR 49 Andre Caldwell SR 6-0/203/4.55 Florida Tampa, FL
QB 50 Brian Brohm SR 6-3/227/4.82 Louisville Louisville, KY

[RashanGary]

I left Lee off because he was raw and couldn't crack the field until is senior year I believe. I saw that he was very raw and had poor instintcts. Thompson tends to pick guys who have played a lot of football. Maybe I was hard on Lee, but something about him made me think Thompson wouldn't take him as high as other GM's might.

[RashanGary]

I left Reggie Smith of because it said he doesn't close well when the ball is in the air. To me that says he gets beat. I'm no scout though. These are just the guys I thought were good CBs and could play bump based on the writeups.

[Joemailman]

Could be a physical corner, or could be a 'tweener like Antuan Edwards.

http://condraft.com/database/big-12/oklahoma/reggie-smith/index.html

[packrulz]

I've checked a lot of mock drafts and 80% have the Packers taking a CB in the first round, a couple has them taking TE Fred Davis, one had them taking T Jeff Otah. A deep draft for corners this year, Cromartie or Talib would be great!

[Fritz]

First, Justin, thanks for the research you do. Good thread.

Second, I haven't looked into the draft yet, but from what you all are writing, it looks like Cromartie would be a steal if he were available at the end of the first round. But as Tony has noted, TT will be looking for a small-school guy in the third round...

[RashanGary]

I could easily see us taking a guy like Tracy Porter in the 1st round.

He's 5'10-7/8". Just a smidge under 5'11". It's not ideal, but it's not so short that it becomes a problem. Ahmad Carroll measured 5'9-1/2" at the combine so Porter is an inch and a half taller for comparison.


He had 16 interceptions. He ran a 4.37 at the combine. Everything I read, he's a lockdown type CB. He's not a great tackler, but they say he became effective as a senior. IN our scheme, with the CB's playing man to man, they don't make a lot of tackles because their back is to the line of scrimmage for most of the play anyway. I've also seen reports where his best skill is man coverge.

He's not the ideal size, but he is adiquate in size and has the ideal skills. None of us know who Thompson is going to pick with any level of certainty, but if I had to guess just one player, I'd guess Tracy Porter becaues he's an accomplished playmaker that has a chance of dropping.

[b bulldog]

Nick, you put way too much stock in what other evaluators think. TT and his crew may look at much of these players differently than some scouting services do. Unless you see thses kids play, I would be hesitant to label them as kids that can do this and can't do that. I like your enthusiasm for the draft and the prospects themselves but don't take what you read as gospel always.

[falco]

its become fairly obvious now that with our extra second we will trade up to grab mckelvin. this guys gonna be a hall of famer! its worth it!

[Fritz]

falco, if anything TT does in the draft can be predicted as "fairly obvious" then you are more talented than the Pet Psychic and Madame Cleo put together.

My new draft strategy: don't do any research on the draft and just shrug and laugh when TT picks whoever it is he picks. That way I don't get bummed when he passes on someone I know of in order to grab some linebacker from Bethune-Cookman in the second round.

[falco]

falco, if anything TT does in the draft can be predicted as "fairly obvious" then you are more talented than the Pet Psychic and Madame Cleo put together.

My new draft strategy: don't do any research on the draft and just shrug and laugh when TT picks whoever it is he picks. That way I don't get bummed when he passes on someone I know of in order to grab some linebacker from Bethune-Cookman in the second round.

Fritz, believe me when I tell you that most of my know it all observations are tongue-in-cheek. except for my prediction of a 20 sack season by Kenny Peterson - god I thought he was going to be great...

[Fritz]

Then we better not draft that guy whose picture you have on your posts...

But I have been wildly inconsistent with my own favorite draft choices...

[falco]

Then we better not draft that guy whose picture you have on your posts...

But I have been wildly inconsistent with my own favorite draft choices...

i'm personally a troy fan more than a mckelvin fan, but I like to find ways to root for individual players as well as teams... hence my kenny peterson fandom...

my father still doesn't let me live down my obession with ahmad carroll (who I am sure is probably racking up INT's in the AFL)

[Fritz]

I'm intrigued by Ohio State's Golston. Any chance he'll be around when the Packers pick or is he going to be long gone?

[b bulldog]

Loooong gone

[twoseven]

I'm intrigued by Ohio State's Golston. Any chance he'll be around when the Packers pick or is he going to be long gone?
Patriots, seventh pick.

[KYPack]

Not sure what this means (if anything), but there is a lot of noise around Cromartie at this point. He's moving up up up in all the mocks. Mayock had him in the top 10 pucks in his friday mock on NFL. I'm sure Thompson has some guys IDed that he wants to get. I bet we get at least a couple good players with our 3 day 1 picks.

[b bulldog]

Cromartie will most likely be gone also.

[RashanGary]

GREAT STAT!!




Leodis McKelvin - Had 70 passes targeted into his territory, as the opposition caught 34 of those tosses (48.57%) for 407 yards (11.97-yard average per completion/5.81-yard average per attempt), no touchdowns and eleven first downs, as he prevented the receivers from getting to 25 throws while breaking up eleven others (nine deflections/two pass thefts)

Tracy Porter - the opposition caught 53 of 91 passes (58.24%) targeted into Porter's territory, good for 679 yards (12.81-yard average per completion/7.46-yard average per attempt) and five touchdowns…Was also charged with nine penalties

Mike Jenkins - Had 68 passes targeted into his area, as the opposition caught 28 of those throws (41.18%) for 348 yards (12.43 avg) and three touchdowns…Defended fifteen passes and prevented his main pass coverage assignment from getting to 25 other tosses

Reggie Smith - The opposition completed just 21-of-60 passes targeted into his area (35.0%) for 231 yards (11.0 yards per completion/3.85 yards per pass attempt), as he allowed no touchdowns and held his main pass coverage assignment to no catches in the North Texas and Miami contests…

Rogers-Cromartie - Of the sixty passes targeted into his area, he held the opposition to 22 receptions for 262 yards (11.91 avg per completion), three touchdowns and an average of 4.37 yards per pass attempt

Antoine Cason - Of the 73 passes targeted to his area, the opposition caught 23 for 258 yards (11.2 avg), two touchdowns and twelve first downs (held the opposition to 3.53 yards per pass attempt)…

Terrell Thomas - Had 57 passes targeted into his area, holding the opposition to seventeen catches for 149 yards (8.76 yards per catch) and one touchdown

[RashanGary]

This is a great stat I found. It basically shows how often the player gets thrown to and what happens when he is thrown too. Reggie Smith, Antoine Cason and Terrell Thomas all jump off the board as being good lock down CB's that should be available later in the first and Thomas is supposed to be available later in the draft.

EDIT: I take back my love for Tracy Porter. He got burned too often.

[red]

wheres aqib?

[RashanGary]

wheres aqib?

In the next few days I'll organize the info into a spreadsheet type format where you can compare stats vs stat instead of the paragraph form that the write ups come in. This is great information. I always want to see "who shut down their side of the field and who gets burned". It's too tough to make a judgement just reading how fast and high they jump. I'll get something more comprehensive together.

[3irty1]

What did you hear about Antoine Cason?

I thought I read that he struggled in press coverage.

[mission]

its become fairly obvious now that with our extra second we will trade up to grab mckelvin. this guys gonna be a hall of famer! its worth it!

gotta love those troy state boys... for as small of a school is that is, they've really sent some good cats to the NFL. it's almost as if those guys have a little more to prove than the big school guys ... for as much as troy state gives me that little (probably unwarranted) confident, the same could be said opposite of say clemson. if we ever take a guy from there, ill be blindly upset.

but come on, could mckelvin be any more alabama with this car ... that's the redneck version of hood right there... hahah... or ask mad, if he was mexican, he'd have a wood spoiler put on a sentra ;D
http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/846540903_41aea2a165.jpg

[mission]

What did you hear about Antoine Cason?

I thought I read that he struggled in press coverage.

from what i hear, there's a lot of that "tweener" question... arizona (is that where he went?) struggled with the thought of moving him to safety. i really dont know anything else.

[3irty1]

From the insider reports, Terrel Thomas and Reggie Smith both seem to be great fits for us. I can't post those here can I?

Anyways I just hope TT picks a big guy. No little corners.

[RashanGary]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/e_mailbob/CBs.jpg

[RashanGary]

Some of the upper tier CB's had their game stats broken down. One stat that's a little misleading is the 3rd down stops. Those include run stops and pass stops so they are a little high.

The one thing I took away from this was that McKelvin, Talib and Porter got thrown on an awful lot. They allowed a high percentage of throws in their direction to be completed while Cason and Terrell Thomas were for the most part shut down guys. Looking at a combination of game performance, size and measurables with game performance being teh most important quality, I think Cason and Thomas are two of the better choices at CB.

[red]

i completely disagree with what you're trying to do here with numbers

you got to actually watch game film to see what kind of conditions those numbers came in to see if a guys any good

were they playing teams that throw a lot, or run a lot? were some playing bad qb's that couldn't complete anything? did they play the games in good conditions compared to the others?etc etc

you can't judge things like is he a shut down corner by stats alone

if you give a stat guy 2 random numbers, he can make you think 5 different things

[b bulldog]

Red, best post on this thread. Game tape, watch the game tape.

[RashanGary]

We'll see. This is a new site I found that gets these stats. I'll be curious to see how production (as it relates to a CB not giving up plays) relates to NFL success. I tend to think it's closely related.


Another hunch I have is that small school QB's are lower level so small school corners might look better than they really are. I'm definilty going to use this for a couple years and see if there are any trends that hold up after going through the wash.

[3irty1]

Sounds like a waste of time to be perfectly honest.

[Partial]

Sounds like a waste of time to be perfectly honest.

agreed :D

[Lurker64]

Sounds like a waste of time to be perfectly honest.

Well, all this pre-draft speculation stuff (mock drafts, picking what players you want your team to draft, etc.) is a waste of time. Teams have scouting departments, who know more about football and more about these players than any of us do, and they don't really care what we think and they don't usually go with what the "experts think."

It's a waste of time, but it can be entertaining. Just don't take it further than it's ability to entertain you, but how far that is varies from person to person.

[twoseven]

i completely disagree with what you're trying to do here with numbers

you got to actually watch game film to see what kind of conditions thos numbers came in to see if a guys any good

were they playing teams that throw a lot, or run a lot? were some playing bad qb's that couldn't complete anything? did they play the games in good conditions compared to the others?etc etc

you can't judge things like is he a shut down corner by stats alone

if you give a stat guy 2 random numbers, he can't make you think 5 different things
A-M-E-N.

Wonder where old Ahmad Carrol would have ranked. More film. More film against standout WRs, more film against standout QBs, more films against productive offensive coaches and schemes.

[CaliforniaCheez]

It very well could be that the top 4 or 5 CB's are gone when the Packers draft in the first round.

The Packers may go elsewhere in the first round and get a CB in the second round.
If you want a CB in the first hope that a worthy 1st rounder still on the board.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

its become fairly obvious now that with our extra second we will trade up to grab mckelvin. this guys gonna be a hall of famer! its worth it!

gotta love those troy state boys... for as small of a school is that is, they've really sent some good cats to the NFL. it's almost as if those guys have a little more to prove than the big school guys ... for as much as troy state gives me that little (probably unwarranted) confident, the same could be said opposite of say clemson. if we ever take a guy from there, ill be blindly upset.

but come on, could mckelvin be any more alabama with this car ... that's the redneck version of hood right there... hahah... or ask mad, if he was mexican, he'd have a wood spoiler put on a sentra ;D
http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/846540903_41aea2a165.jpg

I thought that was McFadden's car.

[twoseven]

its become fairly obvious now that with our extra second we will trade up to grab mckelvin. this guys gonna be a hall of famer! its worth it!

gotta love those troy state boys... for as small of a school is that is, they've really sent some good cats to the NFL. it's almost as if those guys have a little more to prove than the big school guys ... for as much as troy state gives me that little (probably unwarranted) confident, the same could be said opposite of say clemson. if we ever take a guy from there, ill be blindly upset.

but come on, could mckelvin be any more alabama with this car ... that's the redneck version of hood right there... hahah... or ask mad, if he was mexican, he'd have a wood spoiler put on a sentra ;D
http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/846540903_41aea2a165.jpg

I thought that was McFadden's car.
Check the date on the photo, 99'?

[mission]

either way... it's ridiculous.

and that's coming from a guy with "dubs" on his car :P

[Tyrone Bigguns]

its become fairly obvious now that with our extra second we will trade up to grab mckelvin. this guys gonna be a hall of famer! its worth it!

gotta love those troy state boys... for as small of a school is that is, they've really sent some good cats to the NFL. it's almost as if those guys have a little more to prove than the big school guys ... for as much as troy state gives me that little (probably unwarranted) confident, the same could be said opposite of say clemson. if we ever take a guy from there, ill be blindly upset.

but come on, could mckelvin be any more alabama with this car ... that's the redneck version of hood right there... hahah... or ask mad, if he was mexican, he'd have a wood spoiler put on a sentra ;D
http://arkbear.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/846540903_41aea2a165.jpg

I thought that was McFadden's car.
Check the date on the photo, 99'?

I'm not saying anything about the date...but,

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=darren+mcfadden+car&um=1&ie=UTF-8

[twoseven]

I'm not saying anything about the date...but,

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=darren+mcfadden+car&um=1&ie=UTF-8

So they can Pimp a Ride, but they can't figure out how to set the date on a camera. Yep, works for me.

[twoseven]

Who's the guy in the pic pointing at the Ride?

[run pMc]

Sounds like a waste of time to be perfectly honest.

Just like posting on forums.
LOL

Seriously, I could see where it would be a serious time waster, but personally I think it would be interesting to see if there were any trends in about 3-4 years' worth of gathered data on the top 5-10 CB's drafted. Game film definitely counts, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the scouting departments use some sophisticated data analysis. It's easier to build a case for taking a player with in-game stats than it is using their 40 time at the combine.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Who's the guy in the pic pointing at the Ride?

I thought it was McFadden.