MODIFIED EXPECTATIONS OR VIEWPOINTS with the LEGEND GONE

[Bretsky]

Post Favre, I think the TT mentality is a very good fit in Green Bay.

As a fan I've said time after time it's about winning a championship.....nothing less.

That will be my final judgment on TT, as it was with Ron Wolf, Tom Bratz, and Bart Starr as GM's.

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

But now that the legendary quarterback has hung his cleats up, the TT methodology would seem to be the perfect rebuilding concept for Green Bay

We may make the playoffs; heck 8 wins might do it in the pathetic NFC North; but its logical to figure we'll take a step back and IMO we're not winning a Super Bowl anytime soon.

We're not hands down the youngest team the NFL with Favre and Rob Davis retiring and it's time for TT to continue to rebuild this squad through the effective stockpling of talent and draft picks.

The best way to make AROD successful is ask him to do less in his early years as he develops and stockpile talent on the defensive side of the ball.

If we choose not to sleepwalk through free agency again, it would seem wise to look at youthful players who will are not yet at their peak.....and if we are signing a starter they should be young and probably not yet in their prime

It may be a few years at best; it may never happen. But to me I think TT is the right GM to have in the Post Brett Favre Era.

Whether TT himself wins a title and his place on the pedastal remains to be seen IMO

[digitaldean]

That's why it's important to get some improvement in the O-line. A-Rod will face 8 man fronts until he consistently proves he can beat the defense. Ryan Grant will only go so far if that line doesn't open the holes.

He played great in the Dallas game. Let's just hope its a trend.

The Packers have a lot of tough games on the schedule.

[Bretsky]

I've looked through the OG's pretty closely; the Titan OG Bell would have been a nice fit IMO as would the Indy OG Scott.

Bell was the better player; he got around 4MIL per year I think.

Scott is young, mobile and improving; IMO he'd be a nice addition

But my expectations are not that high for next year so if TT decides to have faith in the OG's he has and see if they develop into competent and consistent players I'm fine with that now

[RashanGary]

We'll see how it goes. A part of me wishes TT was hired instead of Sherman a few years ago because this team might have made it over the top with Favre, but at the same time he might not have been ready for it either.

Ted's going to have to find a QB. Hopefully it's Rodgers but it doesn't have to be. I will say this; I've watched the Cowboy game three more times in the last couple days. Rodgers has a very strong arm and good feet. He has all of the skills. He was also presured on every drop back. They were coming at him with blitzes on every play and he was sacked, hit or hurried with almost every throw. He didn't flinch. He stood in, made things happen, didn't turn the ball over, he had to pass it more than they ran it because they were behind. He took the team within 3 points of DAllas after Favre spotted them a 17 point lead. He really had a hell of a game. He should have had 2 TD passes but Kuhn was knocked back at the 1/2 yard line. Really, he was impressive. Favre went out and the Packers acctually got better. Circumstance? Sure, probably, but you didn't feel like the team was in bad hands. He looked ready.

I think we have the right coach to develop a QB and everyone knows how I feel about the GM. I think this team is going to be OK. I don't know if they'll win the SB, but I do think Thompson stands a great chance even without Brett. I think the GM is the most important piece to any team. He controls the talent and the talent controls the w/l record.

[HarveyWallbangers]

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

I still don't understand this thinking. The Packers were devastated by the cap when he took over and bottomed out at 4-12 in 2005. We did sign FAs after 2005 and improved in 2006 to 8-8. Then, we took a huge leap. Would we really have done any better if Thompson GM'd like you wanted (ala the Redskins) and tried to buy Favre a championship? I doubt it. That rarely works--especially with a 4-12 team. Maybe Moss would have been the difference. Maybe he would have disappeared in the big games like he's always done and like he did with New England.

I think you just have to admit that Thompson has done a hell of a job. If he did like you said, we very likely wouldn't have won a championship (or at least we wouldn't have had any better chance than we did this year) and our future wouldn't look as bright. We wouldn't have found many of these young kids that now look like they can play.

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times. They went 13-3 because Thompson reshaped a 4-12 team to 13-3 in two years BY BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. Think about that. That's insane. Now, we actually look like we have a chance in the post-Favre era. Nobody thought we would--including me (and including you, I'm guessing).

[RashanGary]

I'm more worried about LT than I am the OG spots. Cliffy will be turning 32. That position is just too important to be caught with no backup plan like we were with the guards a couple years ago.

CB is also a big need.

After that we could use talent at any position but it's not desperate IMO.

[HarveyWallbangers]

But my expectations are not that high for next year so if TT decides to have faith in the OG's he has and see if they develop into competent and consistent players I'm fine with that now

That's cool. Maybe we can both enjoy the master's work now.
:D

[Merlin]

I disagree that A-Rod played "great" in the Dallas game. I think he played as expected for a backup QB and that isn't good enough. He brought a new dimension in being able to scramble for yards but history will tell you that good QB's in the NFL don't do that very often. He never looked off his primary read and the receivers got open for him to throw to. Previous to this, Rodgers wasn't real accurate or strong with is throws. That part seems to be coming along fine. The ability to get rid of the ball, recognize coverage, and react in an instant? Not Rodgers strong point at this time. If our guard play continues to be as poor as it has been, look for Rodgers to be David Carr II with one exception, he will get knocked out a lot earlier then Carr did.

We have to be realistic here. Rodgers is going to make mistakes. We are going to have to go through growing pains as with any first time starter. The question is, will what he can do well overcome his mistakes. We are bringing in Trent Green, why I have no idea. He isn't starting material anymore and he sure isn't much of a backup with his glass jaw. I don't think he is that great of a mentor either, at least not any better then Favre who we all know never "coached" a backup QB. Making a trade for Quinn would do wonders for our QB situation but that price is too steep IMO.

Rodgers hasn't had competition since he arrived in Green Bay. Ultimately if we do not have someone waiting in the wings to take over for him that he is afraid of taking over for him, we will endure the Randy Wright syndrome all over again. Randy Wright was a backup and then starter for Green Bay with zero competition, look how that turned out. I don't expect Rodgers to be Favre, but after all of the silver spoon treatment he has received, I don't expect to have to live through us putting up with mistakes very long. We need someone in camp who can push for the starting role. I just don't see that happening with Thompson.

I am wary of Aaron Rodgers as a long term solution for Green Bay. Thompson's biggest mistake was never allowing competition for Rodgers position on the team. Ultimately I feel that will come back and bite us in the ass.

[RashanGary]

Spitz - quality starter IMO


We need one more to step up between

Colledge, Coston, Barbre, Palmer, draftpick



OT is trouble though. OT is quickly turning into the same situation as OG three years ago. We really do need to get a backup plan developed soon or it could get ugly.

[RashanGary]

He was pressured more than Brett and made things happen. Say what you will, the game turned in our favor when Rodgers came on the field. It wans't that way before the injury.

That doesn't mean he's better than Favre, but for that day he played better and for all of us that have seen good QB play for many years, there was nothing to be disappointed about.



I don't know what to think of Rodgers. It's way too early, but he did not disappoint at all in that Dallas game.

[Merlin]

Spitz is quality because he can fulfill multiple roles. As a starting guard though, he stinks. He Plays very well at center and if I remember correctly that is his natural position.

[Bretsky]

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

I still don't understand this thinking. The Packers were devastated by the cap when he took over and bottomed out at 4-12 in 2005. We did sign FAs after 2005 and improved in 2006 to 8-8. Then, we took a huge leap. Would we really have done any better if Thompson GM'd like you wanted (ala the Redskins) and tried to buy Favre a championship? I doubt it. That rarely works--especially with a 4-12 team. Maybe Moss would have been the difference. Maybe he would have disappeared in the big games like he's always done and like he did with New England.

I think you just have to admit that Thompson has done a hell of a job. If he did like you said, we very likely wouldn't have won a championship (or at least we wouldn't have had any better chance than we did this year) and our future wouldn't look as bright. We wouldn't have found many of these young kids that now look like they can play.

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times. They went 13-3 because Thompson reshaped a 4-12 team to 13-3 in two years BY BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. Think about that. That's insane. Now, we actually look like we have a chance in the post-Favre era. Nobody thought we would--including me (and including you, I'm guessing).


Make the Moss deal happen and brining in another OG, via free agency or trade, are really the two places that to me were no brainers. No idea if that means a title or not; I thought we'd have more time with BF.

I give TT a good portion of credit; but the elevated play of BF also cannot be ignored with that 13-3 record.

I do think TT is the right guy now

[Merlin]

I think that Favre carried the offense on his back until we got a running game going. He had some gutty performances early on that attributed to the attitude of this team the rest of the season. He wasn't able to carry the team once the running game failed though and I think that speaks volumes of the daily grind of being an elite NFL QB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Make the Moss deal happen and brining in another OG, via free agency or trade, are really the two places that to me were no brainers. No idea if that means a title or not; I thought we'd have more time with BF.

I give TT a good portion of credit; but the elevated play of BF also cannot be ignored with that 13-3 record.

I do think TT is the right guy now

After we finished 8-8, did you even remotely think that Moss (after playing so shitty in Oakland and looking well past his prime) and one OG was going to make this a Super Bowl team? It's easy to say Moss was a no brainer now, but I don't think anybody thought Moss would have his best season ever after his last three bad seasons (he was ineffective and injured in Oakland and his last year in Minnesota). It turned out that way, but as a GM I think it would have been very questionable to take that chance on a player with questionable character on a young team you are trying to rebuild. Definitely not the slam-dunk people are making it out to be. Also, hasn't it been proven since that time that Moss didn't really want to play in Green Bay?

Plus, as a GM you had to know that if Favre did retire, there's no way Moss would have resigned with the Packers. Thus, you're trading a 3rd round pick (James Jones, in this case) for one guaranteed year of Randy Moss' services.

Now, let's talk about the good Thompson did. Everybody critcized him for not trading our pick for Cleveland's pick this year. Brilliant move in hindsight. Trading for Ryan Grant and Donald Lee. Maybe signing Koren Robinson will pay off. Solid drafting. Finding Atari Bigby. Extending guys like Donald Driver, Nick Barnett, and Aaron Kampman. Signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett. Hiring Mike McCarthy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bottom line: Ted Thompson not only gave Brett Favre a chance to succeed (in fact, gave him a chance at another Super Bowl) before he retired but also put the Packers in position to have success after Brett did retire. That's pretty damn tough to do.

[Bretsky]

Make the Moss deal happen and brining in another OG, via free agency or trade, are really the two places that to me were no brainers. No idea if that means a title or not; I thought we'd have more time with BF.

I give TT a good portion of credit; but the elevated play of BF also cannot be ignored with that 13-3 record.

I do think TT is the right guy now

After we finished 8-8, did you even remotely think that Moss (after playing so shitty in Oakland and looking well past his prime) and one OG was going to make this a Super Bowl team? It's easy to say Moss was a no brainer now, but I don't think anybody thought Moss would have his best season ever after his last three bad seasons (he was ineffective and injured in Oakland and his last year in Minnesota). It turned out that way, but as a GM I think it would have been very questionable to take that chance on a player with questionable character on a young team you are trying to rebuild. Definitely not the slam-dunk people are making it out to be. Also, hasn't it been proven since that time that Moss didn't really want to play in Green Bay?

Plus, as a GM you had to know that if Favre did retire, there's no way Moss would have resigned with the Packers. Thus, you're trading a 3rd round pick (James Jones, in this case) for one guaranteed year of Randy Moss' services.

Now, let's talk about the good Thompson did. Everybody critcized him for not trading our pick for Cleveland's pick this year. Brilliant move in hindsight. Trading for Ryan Grant and Donald Lee. Maybe signing Koren Robinson will pay off. Solid drafting. Finding Atari Bigby. Extending guys like Donald Driver, Nick Barnett, and Aaron Kampman. Signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett. Hiring Mike McCarthy.


I thought Moss would excel if he went to a team with an effecting QB and strong leadership from the coach. Trading for Grant has already made our 08 draft a success. TT has did well drafting.

TT did not trade for Donald Lee, did he ?

Overall a good job as I have stated plenty of times.

[HarveyWallbangers]

TT did not trade for Donald Lee, did he?

Thompson acquired Donald Lee in 2005.

[Bretsky]

TT did not trade for Donald Lee, did he?

Thompson acquired Donald Lee in 2005.

It appeared in your quote you said TT traded for Grant and Lee; I think he was a free agent. You've been nitpicked ...aka...Patlerized :lol: :lol:

[Carolina_Packer]

I think that Favre carried the offense on his back until we got a running game going. He had some gutty performances early on that attributed to the attitude of this team the rest of the season. He wasn't able to carry the team once the running game failed though and I think that speaks volumes of the daily grind of being an elite NFL QB.

I'd give their due to the receivers too. They gotta get open for the QB.

[Fritz]

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

I still don't understand this thinking. The Packers were devastated by the cap when he took over and bottomed out at 4-12 in 2005. We did sign FAs after 2005 and improved in 2006 to 8-8. Then, we took a huge leap. Would we really have done any better if Thompson GM'd like you wanted (ala the Redskins) and tried to buy Favre a championship? I doubt it. That rarely works--especially with a 4-12 team. Maybe Moss would have been the difference. Maybe he would have disappeared in the big games like he's always done and like he did with New England.

I think you just have to admit that Thompson has done a hell of a job. If he did like you said, we very likely wouldn't have won a championship (or at least we wouldn't have had any better chance than we did this year) and our future wouldn't look as bright. We wouldn't have found many of these young kids that now look like they can play.

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times. They went 13-3 because Thompson reshaped a 4-12 team to 13-3 in two years BY BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. Think about that. That's insane. Now, we actually look like we have a chance in the post-Favre era. Nobody thought we would--including me (and including you, I'm guessing).

Agreed, Harv. TT has taken a team that was salary-cap bound and 4-12, and molded it into a (young) 13-3 team through a little bit of free agency and a lot of draft - and don't forget about re-signing your own guys and extending contracts. There is a sense of order and stability in the lockerrom because people know that TT will take care of his own if it is warranted. If you don't think that's important check out the recent drama from the NY Jets. They sign two "name" guys to monster contracts and a few players in the lockerroom are already grumbling.

TT has screwed up. The guard question remains unsettled. He's bombed, like any GM, on a few draft picks - though far fewer than most GM's. But he put some young talent around Favre, and Favre responded beautifully.

TT's record is 26-24. My own opinion is that the guy is good at what he does.

I don't expect another 13-3 campaign this year. Favre is gone and you usually don't have the kind of injury-luck the Packers had last year. I also don't expect, however, the disaster that some people seem to intimate. If this team can stay relatively healthy, I think a winning season is a reasonable expectation - and depending on circumstances, better than 9-7 is reasonable, too.

[privatepacker]

Bottom line: Ted Thompson not only gave Brett Favre a chance to succeed (in fact, gave him a chance at another Super Bowl) before he retired but also put the Packers in position to have success after Brett did retire. That's pretty damn tough to do.

Best statement that I've read yet about TT's ability. Esp. when you consider how poor Sherman left the team in terms of talent.

[Scott Campbell]

Rodgers hasn't had competition since he arrived in Green Bay.



I thought that Favre guy gave him a pretty good run for his money.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I actually want to go heavy offense in the draft. I want to see what Rodgers can with a good interior line in front of him and a couple more weapons like another TE. The best way to see if the guy can play in the league I is give him an offense IMO.

Bottom line, I really want to bring the o-line back to the days of dominance. By fixing the o-line, adding another TE, and having Grant, Driver, Jennings, and Jones around him, I see no reason why he can't do well. Because to me I think the pass blocking of the o-line was not as good as it seemed since Favre was so good at getting rid of the ball early.

[Packnut]

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

I still don't understand this thinking. The Packers were devastated by the cap when he took over and bottomed out at 4-12 in 2005. We did sign FAs after 2005 and improved in 2006 to 8-8. Then, we took a huge leap. Would we really have done any better if Thompson GM'd like you wanted (ala the Redskins) and tried to buy Favre a championship? I doubt it. That rarely works--especially with a 4-12 team. Maybe Moss would have been the difference. Maybe he would have disappeared in the big games like he's always done and like he did with New England.

I think you just have to admit that Thompson has done a hell of a job. If he did like you said, we very likely wouldn't have won a championship (or at least we wouldn't have had any better chance than we did this year) and our future wouldn't look as bright. We wouldn't have found many of these young kids that now look like they can play.

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times. They went 13-3 because Thompson reshaped a 4-12 team to 13-3 in two years BY BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. Think about that. That's insane. Now, we actually look like we have a chance in the post-Favre era. Nobody thought we would--including me (and including you, I'm guessing).


Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.

Yes, Thompson gave him some talent. In fact I'm convinced no one on the planet evaluates WR's as well as TT. The trade for Grant might very well go down in the future as an example of criminal theft.

However, just as great as our GM is at judging WR's, he's also that bad at evaluating offensive linemen. All you have to do is look at some of the clowns he's brought in here the first 2 seasons. Then, he drafted Spitz and Colledge EARLY in the draft, so it's not like they were late round reaches. Spitz may make it, but the odds are against Colledge. As for the other guys, we have, none of them has proven anything on the field and are just potential at this point. The true proof will be how this line preforms WITHOUT a Brett Favre behind them.

Another point to consider when crowning the king of GM's is the Harrell pick. I'm tired of the injury and in-mature, out of shape excuse. The 16th pick of the draft has to make more of an impact than he did. Since Teddy has stated he drafts the best player available, he's saying Harrell was the 16th best college player in the country. I would take SERIOUS issue with that.

How many more seasons do we have to watch Collins under preform? Yep, Bigby can lay the lumber but could'nt cover his grandma. Rouse is raw and his coverage skills are not proven. My point is Nelson would have been a much better pick at 16. Everything written says based on his rookie year, he's gonna be a good one. Would'nt it be refreshing to have a saftey that can actually cover a TE? Last point on this- it's not hindsight. Several of us are on record here saying Nelson was a good pick before the draft.

I'm not trying to criticize or nit-pick. I'm just saying Teddy has had his share of misses. Yes, he's done a great job and should be given a freakin 20 year extension. I don't agree with the Moss stuff or other comments that I've heard as far as making moves last season that would have resulted in beating NY.

I still believe that the biggest mistake Thompson has made is in allowing Sanders to remain. We will not win a SB with him running our D, and please don't tell me the coaching staff decisions are made by MM. If Teddy wanted Sanders gone, he would be. We all saw the difference of how a guy like the Giants have that can make on the impact of a game. The Giants D ran stuff that Sanders could'nt even dream of.

Your cannonization of Teddy into saint-hood is a tad premature, but we are headed in the right direction. There is still a lot of work to be done though before reaching the promised land.............

[Scott Campbell]

Don't make me go dig up old posts.

[Zool]

I remember the play in Denver when Favre heaved that long pass in OT and ran under it and caught his own TD. My favorite part was when he picked up that blitzing LB before throwing the pass. Favre to Favre was a great combination this season.

[Scott Campbell]

I remember the play in Denver when Favre heaved that long pass in OT and ran under it and caught his own TD. My favorite part was when he picked up that blitzing LB before throwing the pass. Favre to Favre was a great combination this season.


I loved it when he switched jerseys to number 24 and played on special teams - causing that forced fumble against the Eagles. And wasn't it great how McCarthy let him play defense this year? Who knew that he was both a gunslinger and a run stuffer?

[Zool]

I love the Green Bay Favres

[RashanGary]

If it's all Favre, I have a tough time explaining that 4-12 year as well. He was here, why couldn't he win?

Sherman years

12-4
12-4
10-6
10-6
4-12

NOTE the downward trend while Shermy was GM

Tough to say it was the coach. Our oline sucks now, so you can't say the Oline is the reason. What can it be. . . . . ? ? ? ?

[RashanGary]

This is a pretty unique situation. I don't remember too many QB's hanging it up with a team on the upswing. Most hang it up as a team is about to crash.

Rodgers really has no excuse for performing poorly. He hasn't started too many games, but like Romo, Young and Rivers, he's had time in the NFL to get adjusted to the offense. Maybe he won't be great, but if he plays like crap for most of the year, there is little tolerence outside of devastating injury around him.

As far as Thompson goes, this is his real measuring stick. He's shown he can build from 4-12 to 13-3 with a HOF QB on the backend of his career. Now, can he do it without that luxury? Time will certainly tell. I have a lot of confidence in Thompson, but I do agree that Favre and Sherman have clouded judgement of his performance so far. As far as I'm concerned, the real judgement of Thompson will start now and end when his tenure is done. The first 3 years were just getting the base set.

[Deputy Nutz]

We all worshiped Favre and only wanted the best for him, that was to go out with another Super Bowl Title or at least an appearance. For the last 16 years we have all hung on every move, every word, and most importantly every play he has ever made. In good times he was Super Man, and in bad times, he was still Super Man with Cryptonite hidden in his jock. He was our Hercules, carrying the Packers team, coaches, organization, and the state of Wisconsin on his shoulders, humping it all down field for that go ahead score in the 4th quarter. It is hard to look past #4 and see the other 52 Green Bay Packers, ready and willing to compete and conquer the NFL.

[The Leaper]

Another point to consider when crowning the king of GM's is the Harrell pick. I'm tired of the injury and in-mature, out of shape excuse. The 16th pick of the draft has to make more of an impact than he did.

I'm sure everyone was saying the same of Favre in Atlanta. I bet they are glad they ran him out the door after a full evaluation of his abilities and potential based on one season of work.

[Deputy Nutz]

This is a pretty unique situation. I don't remember too many QB's hanging it up with a team on the upswing. Most hang it up as a team is about to crash.

Rodgers really has no excuse for performing poorly. He hasn't started too many games, but like Romo, Young and Rivers, he's had time in the NFL to get adjusted to the offense. Maybe he won't be great, but if he plays like crap for most of the year, there is little tolerence outside of devastating injury around him.

As far as Thompson goes, this is his real measuring stick. He's shown he can build from 4-12 to 13-3 with a HOF QB on the backend of his career. Now, can he do it without that luxury? Time will certainly tell. I have a lot of confidence in Thompson, but I do agree that Favre and Sherman have clouded judgement of his performance so far. As far as I'm concerned, the real judgement of Thompson will start now and end when his tenure is done. The first 3 years were just getting the base set.

Anyone remember how bad Bubby Brister played for the Super Bowl Champs after John Elway retired? Everyone thought Brister could step in and manage a well maintained offense. It really didn't work out well.

[KYPack]

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

I still don't understand this thinking. The Packers were devastated by the cap when he took over and bottomed out at 4-12 in 2005. We did sign FAs after 2005 and improved in 2006 to 8-8. Then, we took a huge leap. Would we really have done any better if Thompson GM'd like you wanted (ala the Redskins) and tried to buy Favre a championship? I doubt it. That rarely works--especially with a 4-12 team. Maybe Moss would have been the difference. Maybe he would have disappeared in the big games like he's always done and like he did with New England.

I think you just have to admit that Thompson has done a hell of a job. If he did like you said, we very likely wouldn't have won a championship (or at least we wouldn't have had any better chance than we did this year) and our future wouldn't look as bright. We wouldn't have found many of these young kids that now look like they can play.

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times. They went 13-3 because Thompson reshaped a 4-12 team to 13-3 in two years BY BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. Think about that. That's insane. Now, we actually look like we have a chance in the post-Favre era. Nobody thought we would--including me (and including you, I'm guessing).


Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.

Yes, Thompson gave him some talent. In fact I'm convinced no one on the planet evaluates WR's as well as TT. The trade for Grant might very well go down in the future as an example of criminal theft.

...

:beat:

[Zool]

This is a pretty unique situation. I don't remember too many QB's hanging it up with a team on the upswing. Most hang it up as a team is about to crash.

Rodgers really has no excuse for performing poorly. He hasn't started too many games, but like Romo, Young and Rivers, he's had time in the NFL to get adjusted to the offense. Maybe he won't be great, but if he plays like crap for most of the year, there is little tolerence outside of devastating injury around him.

As far as Thompson goes, this is his real measuring stick. He's shown he can build from 4-12 to 13-3 with a HOF QB on the backend of his career. Now, can he do it without that luxury? Time will certainly tell. I have a lot of confidence in Thompson, but I do agree that Favre and Sherman have clouded judgement of his performance so far. As far as I'm concerned, the real judgement of Thompson will start now and end when his tenure is done. The first 3 years were just getting the base set.

Anyone remember how bad Bubby Brister played for the Super Bowl Champs after John Elway retired? Everyone thought Brister could step in and manage a well maintained offense. It really didn't work out well.

Geeze thats hardly fair. Bubby sucked in Pittsburg long before he went to Denver. We dont know if Rodgers sucks yet.

[pbmax]

Haven't been on in quite a while. so let me say it was beyond a pleasure to watch Favre play each and every year. I agree entirely with his sentiments that he has nothing else to prove, he goes out on top and he owes nothing more.

However, I would like Packnut to explain how the Favre of the first eight games of '07 was playing like Brian Griese in 06 and 05. Because if Thompson isn't responsible for the difference, then it must be the QBs fault, right? [Edited(thanks KYP) because I still don't know what year this is]

I mean it can't be the receivers, the pass blocking, the TE or the coach (or the Defense). Those were all Thompson moves. It all revolves around Favre. So he apparently took 06 off and reported back mid-season in 07.


Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.

[dissident94]

THe point is it isn't all Farve. But a team can be vevery good in all areas but lack in that one position and fail. By far the most important position in football. Only comparision in importance is possibly pitcher in baseball where you can be great in all areas but if you can't pitch you have no chance.

Since 1992 Packers have the most wins in football. Only thing that is constant the whole time is Favre. Not a coicidance. If Rodgers is average next year we will be average. If he is below average we will win about 5 games.

Everyone must realize we are taking a major step back. Could we win 10 games next year. Sure. Not likely. Rodgers could surprise and be very good. I could see ten wins then.

We will be playing a tough schedule next year sincve we won the division.

[Lurker64]

We will be playing a tough schedule next year sincve we won the division.

Winning the division just gives us Dallas and Seattle as opposed to two other games. Other than that, having won our division doesn't affect our schedule at all.

(Teams always play: one NFC division, one AFC division, their own division twice, and the teams in the two other two same conference divisions that finished in the same position in the standings. Which NFC division and which AFC division to play is simply cyclic, and its predictable; we go NFC: South, West, East, etc. and AFC: North, East, West, South etc. This is why, for example, despite the fact that New England went 16-0 last year, they play the AFC West and the NFC West, in addition to their own division, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh, to amount to the 7th easiest (on paper) record in NFL history.)

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

But a team can be vevery good in all areas but lack in that one position and fail.


I agree with this statement. That's why I don't see us going that far until Rodgers has more in game experience. Am looking for the year after next to once again compete for a title, but not next year because their will be growing pains in the most important position on the team.
It really is to bad Favre retired, this could have been the year…….

[Cheesehead Craig]

I see no reason we can't go at least 10-6 this year. That would not be a knock on Rodgers at all. How many teams have won 13 games in back to back seasons? None. The Colts are the only team that can flirt with 12-14 win seasons year after year with that ridiculous offense they have.

There is a solid team all around in GB. All Rodgers has to do is manage the offense, not try and be the second coming of Favre and we'll be fine and playoff bound.

[The Leaper]

The dropoff in experience between Favre and Rodgers is enormous. I don't think many of you really have put any thought into that. Teams will not respect the pass as much as they used to with Favre under center...and our running game will suffer as a result.

Until our interior OL starts producing at a consistent level, this team is no better than .500 team with a first-time starter under center.

[woodbuck27]

Post Favre, I think the TT mentality is a very good fit in Green Bay.

As a fan I've said time after time it's about winning a championship.....nothing less.

That will be my final judgment on TT, as it was with Ron Wolf, Tom Bratz, and Bart Starr as GM's.

With Brett Favre on the roster, it was always my mojo that we should try to win sooner rather than later. To me that was a consistent combo of free agency and the draft. As a GM of Green Bay with Brett Favre, I am still luke warm on TT.

But now that the legendary quarterback has hung his cleats up, the TT methodology would seem to be the perfect rebuilding concept for Green Bay

We may make the playoffs; heck 8 wins might do it in the pathetic NFC North; but its logical to figure we'll take a step back and IMO we're not winning a Super Bowl anytime soon.

We're not hands down the youngest team the NFL with Favre and Rob Davis retiring and it's time for TT to continue to rebuild this squad through the effective stockpling of talent and draft picks.

The best way to make AROD successful is ask him to do less in his early years as he develops and stockpile talent on the defensive side of the ball.

If we choose not to sleepwalk through free agency again, it would seem wise to look at youthful players who will are not yet at their peak.....and if we are signing a starter they should be young and probably not yet in their prime

It may be a few years at best; it may never happen. But to me I think TT is the right GM to have in the Post Brett Favre Era.

Whether TT himself wins a title and his place on the pedastal remains to be seen IMO

WOW!

I entirely adorse this message as I feel just the same B.

We'll now see what the TT influence really is. What he's got.

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.

I stand by it. Why?

I don't see that term mojo in our GM. I see far from that but once in a strange while, people do get the moxy to change. They just have to get past their own skin. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Scott Campbell]

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.


Sorry. I had hoped it wouldn't bother you.

It's just a reminder of where your true loyalties lie. Your hatred of Ted always comes first.

[KYPack]

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.


Sorry. I had hoped it wouldn't bother you.

It's just a reminder of where your true loyalties lie. Your hatred of Ted always comes first.

That's right boys.

Always hold a grudge.

I will MF Tank until they put the pennies on his eyes.

Then I'll steal 'em so he don't get into hell.

( I pray with all my might they don't sign Harrington, then he will be right about something for the only time in his life!)

[Scott Campbell]

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.


Sorry. I had hoped it wouldn't bother you.

It's just a reminder of where your true loyalties lie. Your hatred of Ted always comes first.

That's right boys.

Always hold a grudge.

I will MF Tank until they put the pennies on his eyes.

Then I'll steal 'em so he don't get into hell.

( I pray with all my might they don't sign Harrington, then he will be right about something for the only time in his life!)


A mere signing won't make Tank right. Harrington would have to play great here for that bit of prophesy to come true. And even then, there's always Michael Huff.

[Scott Campbell]

I stand by it. Why?


Conventional wisdom - because of your ridiculous false pride, and you're an egomaniac.

[woodbuck27]

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.


Sorry. I had hoped it wouldn't bother you.

It's just a reminder of where your true loyalties lie. Your hatred of Ted always comes first.


Bothering me Scott? Absolutely Noooo! It just makes you appear as you really are.

Playing the fool = Scott Campbell

Let it go man. Please for your own sake. Give it a rest Scott.

Otherwise someone, PLEASE. . . call 911 for Scott Campbell. He needs help and a rest. :D

[Cheesehead Craig]

The dropoff in experience between Favre and Rodgers is enormous. I don't think many of you really have put any thought into that. Teams will not respect the pass as much as they used to with Favre under center...and our running game will suffer as a result.

Until our interior OL starts producing at a consistent level, this team is no better than .500 team with a first-time starter under center.
Thing is, they have to respect the WRs we have. If teams want to go into the game expecting they can cover Driver and Jennings one on one all game, they will get burned by even an avg QB. I believe that ARod is at least an avg QB.

[wist43]

I've been saying this for a while... if you don't have a power running game, you have to have a pro bowl calibur QB to have a chance at making a SB run.

To me, it's all about winning the SB... I don't think Rodgers can do that for us. It's that simple for me - if the guy isn't the answer to winning the SB, then I'm already on to plan B and looking for the guy who is.

IF Rodgers can stay healthy, a HUGE IF, he can probably lead the team to a respectable record, but I just don't see him leading the Packers to a championship.

[KYPack]

Scott Campbell (poor soul) carries my prediction around (of TT and no Super Bowl appearance through 2013, moreso then no win) like a rusty anchor.


Sorry. I had hoped it wouldn't bother you.

It's just a reminder of where your true loyalties lie. Your hatred of Ted always comes first.

That's right boys.

Always hold a grudge.

I will MF Tank until they put the pennies on his eyes.

Then I'll steal 'em so he don't get into hell.

( I pray with all my might they don't sign Harrington, then he will be right about something for the only time in his life!)


A mere signing won't make Tank right. Harrington would have to play great here for that bit of prophesy to come true. And even then, there's always Michael Huff.

Donovan Darius
Logan Mankins shudda been drafted instead of ARod
TT was a fool
Sherman was a great GM
Coldplay rocks
Tank was a shutdown corner that performed his magic on Darren Charles
etc
etc
Ad infinitem

Come to think of it, I'm good. He's a fool on a lot of counts

[Partial]

I've been saying this for a while... if you don't have a power running game, you have to have a pro bowl calibur QB to have a chance at making a SB run.

To me, it's all about winning the SB... I don't think Rodgers can do that for us. It's that simple for me - if the guy isn't the answer to winning the SB, then I'm already on to plan B and looking for the guy who is.

IF Rodgers can stay healthy, a HUGE IF, he can probably lead the team to a respectable record, but I just don't see him leading the Packers to a championship.

Good to see you back you old dog you.

[Deputy Nutz]

This is a pretty unique situation. I don't remember too many QB's hanging it up with a team on the upswing. Most hang it up as a team is about to crash.

Rodgers really has no excuse for performing poorly. He hasn't started too many games, but like Romo, Young and Rivers, he's had time in the NFL to get adjusted to the offense. Maybe he won't be great, but if he plays like crap for most of the year, there is little tolerence outside of devastating injury around him.

As far as Thompson goes, this is his real measuring stick. He's shown he can build from 4-12 to 13-3 with a HOF QB on the backend of his career. Now, can he do it without that luxury? Time will certainly tell. I have a lot of confidence in Thompson, but I do agree that Favre and Sherman have clouded judgement of his performance so far. As far as I'm concerned, the real judgement of Thompson will start now and end when his tenure is done. The first 3 years were just getting the base set.

Anyone remember how bad Bubby Brister played for the Super Bowl Champs after John Elway retired? Everyone thought Brister could step in and manage a well maintained offense. It really didn't work out well.

Geeze thats hardly fair. Bubby sucked in Pittsburg long before he went to Denver. We dont know if Rodgers sucks yet.

If I remember correctly he filled in for a few games for Elway during their Super Bowl run with some success. The Broncos thought that they had an answer for the retiring Elway because of a few cameos by Brister.

[twoseven]

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times.

13 wins--3
12 wins--2
11 wins--2
10 wins--2
9 wins--4

(8 wins--2)
(4 wins--1)

11 Division Titles

During Brett's 16 years Green Bay won MORE football games than ANY other team in the league.

How many different coaches, WRs, RBs, OL, and teammates in general did Brett have in those 16 years?

Number of times in 16 years that Brett had a RB with 1200 or more yards:
4 times (Green 3, Levens 1)

Of course it was not all or even mostly Brett, but it was damn sure a lot of it.

[Brando19]

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times.

13 wins--3
12 wins--2
11 wins--2
10 wins--2
9 wins--4

(8 wins--2)
(4 wins--1)

11 Division Titles

During Brett's 16 years Green Bay won MORE football games than ANY other team in the league.

How many different coaches, WRs, RBs, OL, and teammates in general did Brett have in those 16 years?

Of course it was not all or even mostly Brett, but it was damn sure a lot of it.

Wow...that's amazing to have only one losing season in all those years. Dumb question, but has Peyton Manning or Tom Brady ever had a below .500 season as a starter?
Brett....You are and will always be the man!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

To say Favre was the reason we went 13-3 is silly too. Favre has been here 16 years, and we only won 13 games three times.

13 wins--3
12 wins--2
11 wins--2
10 wins--2
9 wins--4

(8 wins--2)
(4 wins--1)

11 Division Titles

During Brett's 16 years Green Bay won MORE football games than ANY other team in the league.

How many different coaches, WRs, RBs, OL, and teammates in general did Brett have in those 16 years?

Of course it was not all or even mostly Brett, but it was damn sure a lot of it.

Wow...that's amazing to have only one losing season in all those years. Dumb question, but has Peyton Manning or Tom Brady ever had a below .500 season as a starter?
Brett....You are and will always be the man!

Brady no. Worst season..9-7.

Manning yes. Rookie year 3-13.

2001: 6-10...that was the Mora meltdown year..."Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."

[twoseven]

...that was the Mora meltdown year..."Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."

"we couldn't do diddly-poo"

[woodbuck27]

I stand by it. Why?


Conventional wisdom - because of your ridiculous false pride, and you're an egomaniac.

No Scott I'm just intelligent and use it right. Except when it comes to working over a moron like you. Then I drift to my dark side. :D

Your just so darn irrisistable Scott.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

...that was the Mora meltdown year..."Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."

"we couldn't do diddly-poo"

The NFL needs Mora back.

[Scott Campbell]

Your just so darn irrisistable Scott.


Well, that was homo-erotic and kind of creepy. But it's the thought that counts.

[woodbuck27]

Your just so darn irrisistable Scott.


Well, that was homo-erotic and kind of creepy. But it's the thought that counts.

You Jackass. :D

[The Shadow]

I expect the Packers to have a series of great seasons ahead.
The team is young, talented, and clearly on the way up.
A Super Bowl within the next two years is entirely possible.

[The Shadow]

I stand by it. Why?


Conventional wisdom - because of your ridiculous false pride, and you're an egomaniac.

No Scott I'm just intelligent and use it right. Except when it comes to working over a moron like you. Then I drift to my dark side. :D

Your just so darn irrisistable Scott.
.................................................. ..........................................

Wow! Have you suddenly changed?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brady no. Worst season..9-7.
Manning yes. Rookie year 3-13

Of course, Brady has only started 7 years, and it took Brett until his 14th year as a starter to have his first losing season.

[KYPack]

Brady no. Worst season..9-7.
Manning yes. Rookie year 3-13

Of course, Brady has only started 7 years, and it took Brett until his 14th year as a starter to have his first losing season.

Man, doesn't '05 seem like 20 years ago, now?

[Zool]

Brady no. Worst season..9-7.
Manning yes. Rookie year 3-13

Of course, Brady has only started 7 years, and it took Brett until his 14th year as a starter to have his first losing season.

Man, doesn't '05 seem like 20 years ago, now?

I dont recall this '05 that you're talkin about. I think I was on vacation that year.

[KYPack]

Brady no. Worst season..9-7.
Manning yes. Rookie year 3-13

Of course, Brady has only started 7 years, and it took Brett until his 14th year as a starter to have his first losing season.

Man, doesn't '05 seem like 20 years ago, now?

I dont recall this '05 that you're talkin about. I think I was on vacation that year.

4-12
Sherm canned
TT takes over as GM
Lotta shit got different
You made a New years resolution to lose weight and quit drinkin'?

member now?

[Joemailman]

I expect the Packers to have a series of great seasons ahead.
The team is young, talented, and clearly on the way up.
A Super Bowl within the next two years is entirely possible.

A couple of things will have to happen. The Packers will need to develop a more consistent running game. They won't have a QB who can carry the offense on his shoulders for half a season waiting for the running game to show up. It still bothers me that McCarthy asked Favre to carry the load against the Giants in below zero temperatures instead of committing to the running game. Perhaps being forced to commit more to the running game will make McCarthy a better coach.

The other is that Hawk and whoever the free safety is will need to become impact players. They simply need more big plays from the defense now that Favre has exited the stage.

[MJZiggy]

Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.



I find it interesting that you hold this viewpoint since one of the biggest arguments against it came from Favre. He emphasized three times in his retirement presser that it isn't about him and there is far too much attention placed on the quarterback.


We all worshiped Favre and only wanted the best for him, that was to go out with another Super Bowl Title or at least an appearance. For the last 16 years we have all hung on every move, every word, and most importantly every play he has ever made. In good times he was Super Man, and in bad times, he was still Super Man with Cryptonite hidden in his jock. He was our Hercules, carrying the Packers team, coaches, organization, and the state of Wisconsin on his shoulders, humping it all down field for that go ahead score in the 4th quarter. It is hard to look past #4 and see the other 52 Green Bay Packers, ready and willing to compete and conquer the NFL.

I think that may be why he said it was hard to "live up to Brett Favre." It's also partly why he emphasized the men he played with, because people tend to forget them. Like the others said, Favre didn't play all the positions; he didn't do it alone and he didn't win 13 games every year. He had a great year, has earned the respect he gets, and Rodgers has waited a long time for this shot. I expect him to do well. Time will tell if he lives up to my expectations.[/quote]

[Brando19]

I sure hope this is the year Brady has a losing season. It's possible, too. New England's lost alot of good players.

[twoseven]

Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.



I find it interesting that you hold this viewpoint since one of the biggest arguments against it came from Favre. He emphasized three times in his retirement presser that it isn't about him and there is far too much attention placed on the quarterback.

*He had a dominant running back to hand the ball to, aruably, only 3-4 seasons, Dorsey in 97' and Green in 01'-03'.

*He had ONE 'star' wide receiver to throw too, Sharpe, that was for all of three years, 92-94'.

*He had a dominant defense to make his job easier, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

*He had extremely strong special teams, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

*IMO, Holmgren was the only great coach he ever had, that was only the first 7 years of 16.

Brett did quite a bit with less than the best, very good, or even just good around him for a majority of his career. As did Marino and Elway, probably why they are also near the top of the list of greatest of all time. I am not surprised that Brett would deflect praise from himself towards his teammates, even though the numbers and situations are quite to the contrary in a majority of his career. HE WAS THE BEST for many reasons, his humble modesty was just one part of it.

[Bretsky]

Reality check time Harv! Favre had a ton to do with going 13-3. To diminish his contributions in order to boost your hero is just plain WRONG! Favre freakin CARRIED this team the first half of the season when we had NO RUN GAME. His ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball, protected a less than avg O-line. Some of our biggest plays came as a result of him changing the play after reading the initial defensive alignments.



I find it interesting that you hold this viewpoint since one of the biggest arguments against it came from Favre. He emphasized three times in his retirement presser that it isn't about him and there is far too much attention placed on the quarterback.

*He had a dominant running back to hand the ball to, aruably, only 3-4 seasons, Dorsey in 97' and Green in 01'-03'.

*He had ONE 'star' wide receiver to throw too, Sharpe, that was for all of three years, 92-94'.

*He had a dominant defense to make his job easier, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

*He had extremely strong special teams, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

*IMO, Holmgren was the only great coach he ever had, that was only the first 7 years of 16.

Brett did quite a bit with less than the best, very good, or even just good around him for a majority of his career. As did Marino and Elway, probably why they are also near the top of the list of greatest of all time. I am not surprised that Brett would deflect praise from himself towards his teammates, even though the numbers and situations are quite to the contrary in a majority of his career. HE WAS THE BEST for many reasons, his humble modesty was just one part of it.


GREAT POST

[HarveyWallbangers]

We weren't talking historically. We were talking about this year's team. Historically, we haven't won 13 games and gone to the NFC Championship that often--even with Favre in his prime.


*He had a dominant running back to hand the ball to, aruably, only 3-4 seasons, Dorsey in 97' and Green in 01'-03'.

Green was pretty damn good for the better part of 7 years. In 2007, Ryan Grant was pretty darn good for 10 games.


*He had ONE 'star' wide receiver to throw too, Sharpe, that was for all of three years, 92-94'.

One star receiver, but Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Donald Drver, and Javon Walker were pretty darn good. In 2007, he had a very good receiving corps. Probably top 5 in the league.


*He had a dominant defense to make his job easier, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

Depends what you classify as dominant. The way you are judging leads me to believe you are talking about a top 2 or 3 defense. Those don't come around very often. The 1993 defense was top 5, by the way. In 2007 he had a top 10 defense.


*He had extremely strong special teams, arguably, only 2-3 seasons, 96-98'.

In 2007 he had a top 10 special teams unit.

[twoseven]

We weren't talking historically. We were talking about this year's team. Historically, we haven't won 13 games and gone to the NFC Championship that often--even with Favre in his prime.


13 games won is not heads and shoulders better than 10, 11, or 12 wins, and Favre did that plenty, which was the point of the other post response.

My other point is simple, how often in 16 years did opponents have to worry about much more than Favre? Not too often outside of what I listed, it was my opinion.

Dominance to me meant that Brett could play pedestrain or not so well and those other aspects of the team could take over and win the game. How often did any of that happen? Could Green take over, yes, but definitely NOT during MOST of his Packer days. Ryan Grant without Favre keeping defenses honest, we'll find out NEXT YEAR. Our defense and special teams, again I think not outside of 96-98.

As for 2007 and Brett not carrying the offense often and being a major reason why we won 13, I guess we'll find out how much of a difference Brett made next season when Rodgers takes over.

[easy cheesy]

I expect the Packers to have a series of great seasons ahead.
The team is young, talented, and clearly on the way up.
A Super Bowl within the next two years is entirely possible.

Pretty darn close! :cow::tup:

[The Shadow]

Pretty darn close! :cow::tup:

The Shadow knows.
He knows.....

[esoxx]

The Shadow knows.
He knows.....

He knows he has a colonscopy bag that is his constant companion. He knows of the smell of Geritol in the air.

Yes, he knows...

[Cleft Crusty]

...He knows of the smell of Geritol in the air...

Clefty is excited to hear that Geritol now comes in a aerosol spray.

[The Shadow]

Don't hate me because I am beautiful.

[Smidgeon]

Wow. Reading this thread for the first time, I noticed two things. First, there's a lot of crow to eat. Second, some one-liner predictions were spot on (i.e. Free Safety needs to become a star). Some of those were ridiculously well-predicted, even if some of them were left-handed predictions (as in: it will never happen, but...).

[mraynrand]

Don't make me go dig up old posts.

Digging up threads can be fun. It would be better with a good search function.