What Kiper wrote about Favre

[LL2]

I think the tidbit that he started the season after he was in a car accident and had surgery to have some of his intestines removed showed his iron man grit well before he started his proud record of consecutive starts in the NFL.

Kiper also said Favre was not a scrambler. He must've missed something.

Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Kiper projected Favre to go 21st overall in '91 draft
By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN.com

Editor's Note: Below is the excerpt on Brett Favre from Mel Kiper Jr.'s 1991 "Draft Report."

I had Brett Favre as the 17th highest-rated player in the 1991 NFL draft. In my final first-round mock draft, I had Favre going 21st overall to the Kansas City Chiefs (Kansas City drafted LSU running back Harvey Williams). In fact, Favre was not the first QB taken in 1991 -- Dan McGwire went 16th overall to the Seattle Seahawks. Favre was a second-round pick, going 33rd overall to the Atlanta Falcons (I had both McGwire and Favre with the same grade, 9.2).

Here's the write-up on Favre from my 1991 "Draft Report":

After a nightmarish spring and summer, it appeared Brett Favre would have to consider sitting out the 1990 campaign. His run on bad luck began with elbow surgery to his throwing arm that sidelined him the entire spring practice session. While rehabilitating that injury, Brett was involved in a single-car accident on July 14 that resulted in a variety of injuries, including a gash on his knee, a concussion, as well as severe bumps and bruises to most of his body. After talking to Brett and his family at the Senior Bowl, he was fortunate just to survive the accident, let alone return to the gridiron this season. You see, the car he was driving was in the process of falling down a hill into a creek, before the car was stopped in its tracks by a tree. Had the car fallen into the creek, Brett would have more than likely drowned, since he was unconscious then. His brother, who was in a following car, pulled Brett out of the wreck, where he lay on the side of the road until an ambulance arrived to take him to a hospital.

Brett Favre
Brett Favre had a first-round grade coming out of Southern Miss, but he fell to the second round in the 1991 NFL draft.

After leaving the hospital, he was still not feeling even close to 100 percent. As Brett explained, "It felt like a knife was jabbing me in the middle of my chest." He twice went to see a doctor, before being returned to the hospital for further evaluation. On Aug. 8, he underwent surgery to remove a 30-inch portion of the lower end of his smaller intestine. During the ordeal, he lost between 25 and 30 pounds, weighing in at only 193 pounds before the start of the football season in late August, early September.

Remarkably, Brett was able to dress for the season opener against Delta State on Sept. 1, although he didn't return to action until the second game against Alabama. During the middle portion of the campaign, Brett began to regain his lost weight and strength, leading the Golden Eagles to victories over the likes of Louisville and Auburn. He closed out the campaign with a fine effort against NC State in the bowl game, throwing for well over 300 yards against one of the top secondaries in college football.

He has a strong, powerful arm, throwing the 15- to 25-yard intermediate routes across the middle as well as any quarterback to come out in the last few years. The Southern Miss baseball coaches have practically begged him to play the last few years. In high school, his fastball was clocked in the 90 mph range. Delivery is outstanding -- he snaps the ball right off from his ear, cutting through the wind that is a factor to deal with in the late fall/winter months.

One negative I saw during practice sessions was that he tends to hang his deeper passes, allowing CBs the time to react and get in a position to make a play on the ball. Although not a scrambler, he can sidestep the initial pass rusher, and learn to deliver the ball accurately rolling to his right.

* This kid is a competitor, possesses above average physical skills, and did his damage against top competition during his four years as the starter. To a certain extent, he is still recovering from the painful injuries he sustained in the car accident and ensuing surgery. I really believe strongly that he has the natural ability and overall attitude to make the successful transition to the NFL. Would be ideal for a club looking to develop a starting quarterback of the future, thus allowing him the time necessary to settle in at the pro level.

Combine Note -- Brett was the most impressive of the quarterbacks throwing the football, but didn't run for the clock, still a little banged up from the all-star game.

[Carolina_Packer]

Perhaps not a scrambler in the classic sense, but he had enough footwork and "felt the rush"enough to move in the pocket or move to create an open passing lane. He wasn't a tuck it and run guy, unless the field opened up.

[KYPack]

Mel,

Scramble Schmamble.

It's called "pocket awareness" and the kid had that quality of the first order!

I stopped listening to Kiper when he went off on the air. Kiper was telling all that would listen that Ryan Leaf would be a HOF QB and the Colts would be crazy to pick Peyton Manning over Leaf.

[Scott Campbell]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

[KYPack]

I think the tidbit that he started the season after he was in a car accident and had surgery to have some of his intestines removed showed his iron man grit well before he started his proud record of consecutive starts in the NFL.

Kiper also said Favre was not a scrambler. He must've missed something.

Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Kiper projected Favre to go 21st overall in '91 draft
By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN.com

Editor's Note: Below is the excerpt on Brett Favre from Mel Kiper Jr.'s 1991 "Draft Report."

I had Brett Favre as the 17th highest-rated player in the 1991 NFL draft. In my final first-round mock draft, I had Favre going 21st overall to the Kansas City Chiefs (Kansas City drafted LSU running back Harvey Williams). In fact, Favre was not the first QB taken in 1991 -- Dan McGwire went 16th overall to the Seattle Seahawks. Favre was a second-round pick, going 33rd overall to the Atlanta Falcons (I had both McGwire and Favre with the same grade, 9.2).



There is also an error in it. I'm shocked and disappointed that Mel omitted a QB in the '91 draft.

How could he forget the great, HOF QB Todd (2 D's) Marijuanavich, er Marinovich. Todd was picked in the first round (24th overall) by the LA Raiders. He tried to wrap an all-star QB career around drug busts.

When you watch the draft in the spring, remember that in '91, Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich were selected before Brett Favre.

[3irty1]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.
Does that mean that in 15 years QBs will be like Culpepper size?

[Deputy Nutz]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

When Favre came to Green Bay Frankie Winters had to ask him if he was a linebacker. Favre weighed over 240 pounds when he first came to Green Bay.

He is by and away smaller now than he was when he was 21 years old drinking 20 some Shaffer Lights a night.

444444444444444444444

Anyways, I thought Kiper spoke very highly of Favre in his evaluation, he did miss on the scrambling part, but if he meant scrambler in the sense of a dual threat QB, then he was right, Favre wasn't a predetermined runner, but His pocket mobility and his ability to create with his feet might be second to none. Favre had wheels in the early days and could make first downs on third and 10 scrambles.

I am sure Favre didn't do a lot of running during his senior year coming off the car accident. So if Kiper only had tape on him from his Senior Year I could understand that preception.

[oregonpackfan]

I think the tidbit that he started the season after he was in a car accident and had surgery to have some of his intestines removed showed his iron man grit well before he started his proud record of consecutive starts in the NFL.

Kiper also said Favre was not a scrambler. He must've missed something.

Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Kiper projected Favre to go 21st overall in '91 draft
By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN.com

Editor's Note: Below is the excerpt on Brett Favre from Mel Kiper Jr.'s 1991 "Draft Report."

I had Brett Favre as the 17th highest-rated player in the 1991 NFL draft. In my final first-round mock draft, I had Favre going 21st overall to the Kansas City Chiefs (Kansas City drafted LSU running back Harvey Williams). In fact, Favre was not the first QB taken in 1991 -- Dan McGwire went 16th overall to the Seattle Seahawks. Favre was a second-round pick, going 33rd overall to the Atlanta Falcons (I had both McGwire and Favre with the same grade, 9.2).



There is also an error in it. I'm shocked and disappointed that Mel omitted a QB in the '91 draft.

How could he forget the great, HOF QB Todd (2 D's) Marijuanavich, er Marinovich. Todd was picked in the first round (24th overall) by the LA Raiders. He tried to wrap an all-star QB career around drug busts.

When you watch the draft in the spring, remember that in '91, Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich were selected before Brett Favre.

Good catch about Marinovich, KY. He was indeed a phenonmenal bust.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think the tidbit that he started the season after he was in a car accident and had surgery to have some of his intestines removed showed his iron man grit well before he started his proud record of consecutive starts in the NFL.

Kiper also said Favre was not a scrambler. He must've missed something.

Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Kiper projected Favre to go 21st overall in '91 draft
By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN.com

Editor's Note: Below is the excerpt on Brett Favre from Mel Kiper Jr.'s 1991 "Draft Report."

I had Brett Favre as the 17th highest-rated player in the 1991 NFL draft. In my final first-round mock draft, I had Favre going 21st overall to the Kansas City Chiefs (Kansas City drafted LSU running back Harvey Williams). In fact, Favre was not the first QB taken in 1991 -- Dan McGwire went 16th overall to the Seattle Seahawks. Favre was a second-round pick, going 33rd overall to the Atlanta Falcons (I had both McGwire and Favre with the same grade, 9.2).



There is also an error in it. I'm shocked and disappointed that Mel omitted a QB in the '91 draft.

How could he forget the great, HOF QB Todd (2 D's) Marijuanavich, er Marinovich. Todd was picked in the first round (24th overall) by the LA Raiders. He tried to wrap an all-star QB career around drug busts.

When you watch the draft in the spring, remember that in '91, Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich were selected before Brett Favre.

Where is the the error. I don't see anything that says brett was the second QB taken?

[KYPack]

Yer right, Cracky.

I mis-read it. Thought he omitted Todd M, but his statement is correct the way he put it.

You ever run into Todd, he's on your "circuit"?

[Partial]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yer right, Cracky.

I mis-read it. Thought he omitted Todd M, but his statement is correct the way he put it.

You ever run into Todd, he's on your "circuit"?

Of course, Todd and i immediately bonded over stories of our overbearing fathers.

My pops made Marv look like Phil Donahue.

[Deputy Nutz]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

There is Partial again, sniffen glue. Prototypical for a tight end?

Sporting News's 2007 Draft Guide lists optimum NFL QBs at 6-3 225 pounds. Minimum Stanards lists at 6-0 195.

[red]

did anyone else catch this little tid-bit


One negative I saw during practice sessions was that he tends to hang his deeper passes, allowing CBs the time to react and get in a position to make a play on the ball.

this is the classic favre "throw the ball up for grabs" pass that us packer fans have seen hundreds of time and sometimes have nightmares about

[Tyrone Bigguns]

From profootball reference

Brett: 6'2" 225
Brady: 6'4" 225
McNabb: 6'2" 240
Warner: 6'2" 220
Brees: 6 209
Rivers: 6'5" 228
Leinart: 6'5" 225
Hassellbeck: 6'5" 223
Wrex: 6'1" 222
Tavaris: 6'2" 226
Palmer: 6'5" 230
Losman: 6'3" 220
Trent Green: 6'3" 217
vick: 6 215
etc,

Partial...accept that you are wrong.

[Partial]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

There is Partial again, sniffen glue. Prototypical for a tight end?

Sporting News's 2007 Draft Guide lists optimum NFL QBs at 6-3 225 pounds. Minimum Stanards lists at 6-0 195.

Prototypical means the best possible build. Why would you want someone shorter and less weight??

I'm at work so I can't look up the stats, but I believe Peyton is 6'5", Leinart is 6'5", Eli is 6'4", Palmer is 6'5", Culpeppers was great before he blew out a knee and was 6'6", I believe Vince Young is up there as well and he has had some success. Dave G down in Jax is a big dude and he has had success. Big Ben is huge, so is Derek Anderson from Cleveland. Hasselback is a tall guy as well.

I would say 6'2" is probably about average for NFL qbs. Average is not prototypical imo.

[Partial]

From profootball reference

Brett: 6'2" 225
Brady: 6'4" 225
McNabb: 6'2" 240 prototypical in weight
Warner: 6'2" 220
Brees: 6 209
Rivers: 6'5" 228
Leinart: 6'5" 225
Hassellbeck: 6'5" 223
Wrex: 6'1" 222
Tavaris: 6'2" 226
Palmer: 6'5" 230
Losman: 6'3" 220
Trent Green: 6'3" 217
vick: 6 215
etc,

Partial...accept that you are wrong.

Way to leave off half the data, and list crap players. I'll bold the good players. Note their heights and weight.

[Freak Out]

From profootball reference

Brett: 6'2" 225
Brady: 6'4" 225
McNabb: 6'2" 240 prototypical in weight
Warner: 6'2" 220
Brees: 6 209
Rivers: 6'5" 228
Leinart: 6'5" 225
Hassellbeck: 6'5" 223
Wrex: 6'1" 222
Tavaris: 6'2" 226
Palmer: 6'5" 230
Losman: 6'3" 220
Trent Green: 6'3" 217
vick: 6 215
etc,

Partial...accept that you are wrong.

Way to leave off half the data, and list crap players. I'll bold the good players. Note their heights and weight.

WTF Partial! Bold the good players? You missed one you traitor. :)

[chain_gang]

Every time I see/hear something that Kiper wrote about a draft prospect, I have a flashback to William Henderson flipping out on Kiper during the draft a couple years ago. When Kiper was questioning the pack's draft. The year they got Hawk, Jennings, Colledge, Spitz, and Jolly. That was classic. Wish I would've been recording it.


Anyways, back to the topic, Kiper was pretty close to spot on with his analysis.

[woodbuck27]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

I agree with you. Except it's a wee bit on the shallow side.

[Scott Campbell]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

I agree with you. Except it's a wee bit on the shallow side.


Shallow? By today's standards - yes. But for 1991? I don't think so. Not for a one man team covering an entire draft.

[woodbuck27]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

I agree with you. Except it's a wee bit on the shallow side.


Shallow? By today's standards - yes. But for 1991? I don't think so. Not for a one man team covering an entire draft.

Point taken Scott.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

There is Partial again, sniffen glue. Prototypical for a tight end?

Sporting News's 2007 Draft Guide lists optimum NFL QBs at 6-3 225 pounds. Minimum Stanards lists at 6-0 195.

Prototypical means the best possible build. Why would you want someone shorter and less weight??

I'm at work so I can't look up the stats, but I believe Peyton is 6'5", Leinart is 6'5", Eli is 6'4", Palmer is 6'5", Culpeppers was great before he blew out a knee and was 6'6", I believe Vince Young is up there as well and he has had some success. Dave G down in Jax is a big dude and he has had success. Big Ben is huge, so is Derek Anderson from Cleveland. Hasselback is a tall guy as well.

I would say 6'2" is probably about average for NFL qbs. Average is not prototypical imo.

Convenient for you to leave out the 250. Not one of the QBs you mentioned is even close. LOL

You can't pick just one side of your equation and now claim you are right. If this was math..you failed half the problem.

BTW, garrard is 6'1". Culpepper was 6'4"..and the only QB to be over 250.

You are wrong, accept it.

[Lurker64]

Prototypical means the best possible build.

Umm... no it doesn't.

A prototype is (from the Oxford American Dictionary).

1)"A first or preliminary model of something from which other forms are developed or copied."

2)"A typical example of something"

3) "The archetypical example of a class of something."

4) "A building, vehicle, or other object that acts as a pattern for the final model"

5) "A basic network filter with specified cutoff frequencies, from which other networks may be derived to obtain sharper cutoffs, consistency of characteristic impedance with frequency, etc.

None of those things have anything to do with "the best" or "optimal". In fact, they all (excepting the last one) have much more to do with being a typical example of something, or an original that later becomes a standard. When the Raiders broadcast guy says that "Nnamdi Asomugha is a prototype" they mean that "6'3" 220 lb cornerbacks are not common, but Asomugha's success and promise will probably mean that more and more teams will try to get corners that big", they do not mean "Asomugha is the best possible cornerback." A prototype is either "a typical example" or "an innovation that will soon become a typical example because of its value compared to the old typical example."

I believe the word you're looking for is something like "optimal", "ideal", "nonpareil", or "paragon". Paragon is a good word.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

I agree with you. Except it's a wee bit on the shallow side.


Shallow? By today's standards - yes. But for 1991? I don't think so. Not for a one man team covering an entire draft.

Point taken Scott.

Hell is freezin at this moment.

[woodbuck27]

Pretty good evaluation by Mel.

I agree with you. Except it's a wee bit on the shallow side.


Shallow? By today's standards - yes. But for 1991? I don't think so. Not for a one man team covering an entire draft.

Point taken Scott.

Hell is freezin at this moment.

No! I'm going to a better Kung Fu move.

[Scott Campbell]

No! I'm going to a better Kung Fu move.



http://popsci.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/19/mr_six_old_guy_lg.jpg

[woodbuck27]

No! I'm going to a better Kung Fu move.



http://popsci.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/19/mr_six_old_guy_lg.jpg

Thats really funny but so is that really old fella.

That's what Kung Fu promises us all the powerrrr as we age.

Just look at the really old guy!! Scott. Bet you don't have that MAN's energy especially with all those wives. Is it seven (7). I used to think that was a LUCKY NUMBER. Scott. May I recommend that you exchange Viagra for Kung Fu as you can't be really sure of the long term effects of modern drugs Scott.

Just a thought Scott as i know fellas like you usually have it all worked out.

[Scott Campbell]

May I recommend that you exchange Viagra...........


Your just so darn irrisistable Scott.


Ok Woody, I'm not going to say this again.

INAPPROPRIATE.

[Partial]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

There is Partial again, sniffen glue. Prototypical for a tight end?

Sporting News's 2007 Draft Guide lists optimum NFL QBs at 6-3 225 pounds. Minimum Stanards lists at 6-0 195.

Prototypical means the best possible build. Why would you want someone shorter and less weight??

I'm at work so I can't look up the stats, but I believe Peyton is 6'5", Leinart is 6'5", Eli is 6'4", Palmer is 6'5", Culpeppers was great before he blew out a knee and was 6'6", I believe Vince Young is up there as well and he has had some success. Dave G down in Jax is a big dude and he has had success. Big Ben is huge, so is Derek Anderson from Cleveland. Hasselback is a tall guy as well.

I would say 6'2" is probably about average for NFL qbs. Average is not prototypical imo.

Convenient for you to leave out the 250. Not one of the QBs you mentioned is even close. LOL

You can't pick just one side of your equation and now claim you are right. If this was math..you failed half the problem.

BTW, garrard is 6'1". Culpepper was 6'4"..and the only QB to be over 250.

You are wrong, accept it.

No, I'm not wrong. I want my QBs to be as tall and big as possible. I am sure every GM in the NFL salivates over the size of Cuilpeppers and Russel. I'm not saying that every NFL QB is that big, I am saying if there was a quarterback factory, that's what they'd be pumping out.

[Partial]

Carson Palmer - 6'5" and 230. My guess is he's heavier than that, though.

Quinn - 6'2" and 240

Anderson - 6'6" and "230". Like Palmer, I believe he is bigger than this.

Roethlisberger - 6'5" 241 - Probably heavier as well.

Manning - 6'5" 230

Garrard - 6'1" 245 after fasting for a week or so.

Vince Young - 6'5", 235

Byron Leftwich - 6'5", 250 great player until injuries caught up

Manning - 6'4" 230

Brady - 6'4" 225

McNabb - 6'2" 240

Collins - 6'4" 230

Campbell - 6'5" 235

Cutler - 6'3" 235

Leinart - 6'5" 235

Alex Smith 6'4" 210

Rusell - 6'6" 265

Hasselback - 6'4" 225

Rivers - 6'5" 230

Bulger - 6'3" 215

Romo - 6'2" 225

Brees - 6'0" 210

Culpepper - 6'5" 260

These are the guys that have been premiere prospects or have had tremendous seasons the past couple of years. As you can see, the weight is probably a little lower than 250 and the height is probably about 6'4". If I was building quarterbacks for a living, I'd add some size to them from 225 and make a thicker, better, player.

[Deputy Nutz]

Oh Partial how you hate to be wrong.

You see the listed weight on some these guys and you claim they are actually bigger, but funny how you don't question their height? Usually if players smudge their weight, they fudge on their height as well.

Tall is good, I am not questioning that. Big and strong, still good, but very rarely are QBs both tall, big, and strong. Culpepper is the one that I can think of that was legit 6-4 265 and was athletic. He paid the price.

And I am sure if you were a GM you would want size, because you sure wouldn't know about anything else that makes a good QB, how would you judge their release? What about arm strength? How about their 3 step, 5 step drop?

Prototypical is most likely Todd Marinovich.

[Partial]

Oh Partial how you hate to be wrong.

You see the listed weight on some these guys and you claim they are actually bigger, but funny how you don't question their height? Usually if players smudge their weight, they fudge on their height as well.

Tall is good, I am not questioning that. Big and strong, still good, but very rarely are QBs both tall, big, and strong. Culpepper is the one that I can think of that was legit 6-4 265 and was athletic. He paid the price.

And I am sure if you were a GM you would want size, because you sure wouldn't know about anything else that makes a good QB, how would you judge their release? What about arm strength? How about their 3 step, 5 step drop?

Prototypical is most likely Todd Marinovich.

So they're being under quoted on weight but overquoted on height?!? That doesn't add up imo.

He paid the price? What does that mean? I don't understand how you can equate having all the physical tools to getting injured. I'd call it really unfortunate and bad luck, not paying the price.

I am not saying be a big guy and you'll be a good quarterback. I'm saying if I am making the picture perfect quarterback, I'm having him be a big guy. On one hand I feel like they'd absorb punishment better, but on the other I can see their bodies wearing down faster and having some knee problems.

I however don't equate being a big guy and tearing three ligaments in your knee to be "paying the price". I think its horribly unlucky.

As for my ability to judge a quarterback, I don't claim to be an NFL scout, but at least I know enough to know that Tim Tebow won't be an NFL quarterback let alone a #1 overall pick.

I don't think any of us have the know how to do what the pros do, thats why you and I are sitting at home and not visiting college campuses.. (campaii, if you will).

[KYPack]

Oh Partial how you hate to be wrong.

You see the listed weight on some these guys and you claim they are actually bigger, but funny how you don't question their height? Usually if players smudge their weight, they fudge on their height as well.

Tall is good, I am not questioning that. Big and strong, still good, but very rarely are QBs both tall, big, and strong. Culpepper is the one that I can think of that was legit 6-4 265 and was athletic. He paid the price.

And I am sure if you were a GM you would want size, because you sure wouldn't know about anything else that makes a good QB, how would you judge their release? What about arm strength? How about their 3 step, 5 step drop?

Prototypical is most likely Todd Marinovich.

Two Todd Marinovich mentions in the same day.

Height is nice & all, but it ain't that big a factor in scouting a QB. 6'0" hurt Brees fer instance. Ryan Leaf fits the Partial sterotype, but all that shit is meaningless. There are a million factors in picking a QB & huge is pretty far down on the list. Enough size & sturdy to be sure, but this "prototype" stuff is pure bullshit.

[BallHawk]

He paid the price? What does that mean? I don't understand how you can equate having all the physical tools to getting injured. I'd call it really unfortunate and bad luck, not paying the price.

So you don't think that carrying around that extra baggage had anything to do with his injuries and decline of performance the last few years?


As for my ability to judge a quarterback, I don't claim to be an NFL scout, but at least I know enough to know that Tim Tebow won't be an NFL quarterback let alone a #1 overall pick.

And at least you know enough to know that Ike won't be a top 10 pick, right? :wink:

[Partial]

He paid the price? What does that mean? I don't understand how you can equate having all the physical tools to getting injured. I'd call it really unfortunate and bad luck, not paying the price.

So you don't think that carrying around that extra baggage had anything to do with his injuries and decline of performance the last few years?


As for my ability to judge a quarterback, I don't claim to be an NFL scout, but at least I know enough to know that Tim Tebow won't be an NFL quarterback let alone a #1 overall pick.

And at least you know enough to know that Ike won't be a top 10 pick, right? :wink:

I think the weight equates to more severe sprains, bumps, bruises, etc. It's not like these guys were big fatties. Culpeppers was built and in shape. He got really unlucky. I am not going to say it had nothing to do with him tearing up his knee, but he was pretty healthy before he did that, and has never been the same since tearing the three tendons.

I think the injuries of those big guys is probably much more prevalent after their playing career. Sprinting at 250 pounds cannot be good for the knees.

[BallHawk]

Ben Roethlisberger is on track to be the next Daunte Culpepper in a few years. The Steelers are really going to regret that contract.

[Deputy Nutz]

Oh Partial how you hate to be wrong.

You see the listed weight on some these guys and you claim they are actually bigger, but funny how you don't question their height? Usually if players smudge their weight, they fudge on their height as well.

Tall is good, I am not questioning that. Big and strong, still good, but very rarely are QBs both tall, big, and strong. Culpepper is the one that I can think of that was legit 6-4 265 and was athletic. He paid the price.

And I am sure if you were a GM you would want size, because you sure wouldn't know about anything else that makes a good QB, how would you judge their release? What about arm strength? How about their 3 step, 5 step drop?

Prototypical is most likely Todd Marinovich.

So they're being under quoted on weight but overquoted on height?!? That doesn't add up imo.

He paid the price? What does that mean? I don't understand how you can equate having all the physical tools to getting injured. I'd call it really unfortunate and bad luck, not paying the price.

I am not saying be a big guy and you'll be a good quarterback. I'm saying if I am making the picture perfect quarterback, I'm having him be a big guy. On one hand I feel like they'd absorb punishment better, but on the other I can see their bodies wearing down faster and having some knee problems.

I however don't equate being a big guy and tearing three ligaments in your knee to be "paying the price". I think its horribly unlucky.

As for my ability to judge a quarterback, I don't claim to be an NFL scout, but at least I know enough to know that Tim Tebow won't be an NFL quarterback let alone a #1 overall pick.

I don't think any of us have the know how to do what the pros do, thats why you and I are sitting at home and not visiting college campuses.. (campaii, if you will).

Do you even follow football? QBs that scramble, run for yards eventually put themselves in position to suffer serious injuries. Culpepper is just another in a long list of can't miss athletic QBs that loses a knee, gets several concussions, blows out a shoulder. It is not horrible unlucky like you claim, just ask Randall Cunningham about luck, or ask Steve Young about it.

How do you know Tim Tebow won't be the number one pick? He sure fits your prototypical standards for big QBs. Remember if you were a GM he has the physical stature that you demand!

[Deputy Nutz]

Yes Partial teams and players do fudge on their height, in fact I remember you telling a little white lie about how tall you think you are.

[Partial]

Oh Partial how you hate to be wrong.

You see the listed weight on some these guys and you claim they are actually bigger, but funny how you don't question their height? Usually if players smudge their weight, they fudge on their height as well.

Tall is good, I am not questioning that. Big and strong, still good, but very rarely are QBs both tall, big, and strong. Culpepper is the one that I can think of that was legit 6-4 265 and was athletic. He paid the price.

And I am sure if you were a GM you would want size, because you sure wouldn't know about anything else that makes a good QB, how would you judge their release? What about arm strength? How about their 3 step, 5 step drop?

Prototypical is most likely Todd Marinovich.

So they're being under quoted on weight but overquoted on height?!? That doesn't add up imo.

He paid the price? What does that mean? I don't understand how you can equate having all the physical tools to getting injured. I'd call it really unfortunate and bad luck, not paying the price.

I am not saying be a big guy and you'll be a good quarterback. I'm saying if I am making the picture perfect quarterback, I'm having him be a big guy. On one hand I feel like they'd absorb punishment better, but on the other I can see their bodies wearing down faster and having some knee problems.

I however don't equate being a big guy and tearing three ligaments in your knee to be "paying the price". I think its horribly unlucky.

As for my ability to judge a quarterback, I don't claim to be an NFL scout, but at least I know enough to know that Tim Tebow won't be an NFL quarterback let alone a #1 overall pick.

I don't think any of us have the know how to do what the pros do, thats why you and I are sitting at home and not visiting college campuses.. (campaii, if you will).

Do you even follow football? QBs that scramble, run for yards eventually put themselves in position to suffer serious injuries. Culpepper is just another in a long list of can't miss athletic QBs that loses a knee, gets several concussions, blows out a shoulder. It is not horrible unlucky like you claim, just ask Randall Cunningham about luck, or ask Steve Young about it.

How do you know Tim Tebow won't be the number one pick? He sure fits your prototypical standards for big QBs. Remember if you were a GM he has the physical stature that you demand!

But I would also look at his bad passes and pass.

Who says anything about scrambling and getting into position to get hurt? Trent Green got hurt running and that was irrelevant of size.

I'm not saying that injuries don't happen, I'm saying its foolish to imply Culpepper's devestating injury was a result of how he played the game. Freak accident. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Partial]

Ben Roethlisberger is on track to be the next Daunte Culpepper in a few years. The Steelers are really going to regret that contract.

Why do you say that? What evidence is there that he will blow out three ligs?

[Deputy Nutz]

When you run down the middle of the field standing straight up at 6-4 you're bound to be injured severely at some point. I really don't see why you don't understand it, it wasn't a freak accident, it was the law of averages when a QB thinks he is a running back or a wide receiver.

JaMarcus Russell may be the same size of Culpepper but he is more in the form of Leftwich, he is a pocket passers.

Leftwich has never been a good NFL QB. He has always been hurt.

[Deputy Nutz]

Was a freak accident that Steve Young had to retire from the game because he took to many hit to the noggin?

Was it a freak accident that Randall Cunningham blew his knee out as well?

Actually Trent Green's last concussion came when he tried to cut block a defensive end on a end a round.

His concussion before that was because he was trying to run with the football, late slide almost got him one body, and a separate head.

[Partial]

OK, and you're right about Trent Green, but I still don't remember ever equating size to running down the field. I want a big guy, that doesn't mean I want a scrambling QB.

[Deputy Nutz]

My point was that Culpepper believed his size would give him added protection when running with the football, I should have explained it better. He thought he was larger and more powerful than linebackers like Ray Lewis, so how could they possibly hurt him?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I feel like the standards for quarterbacks have changed a lot since then. If you re-watch Favre's first game they all talk about him like he's a monster... Now Favre's size is prototypical for a quarterback.

Favre is small for a quarterback. Prototypical is like 6'5" 250. A more appropriate word is standard.

There is Partial again, sniffen glue. Prototypical for a tight end?

Sporting News's 2007 Draft Guide lists optimum NFL QBs at 6-3 225 pounds. Minimum Stanards lists at 6-0 195.

Prototypical means the best possible build. Why would you want someone shorter and less weight??

I'm at work so I can't look up the stats, but I believe Peyton is 6'5", Leinart is 6'5", Eli is 6'4", Palmer is 6'5", Culpeppers was great before he blew out a knee and was 6'6", I believe Vince Young is up there as well and he has had some success. Dave G down in Jax is a big dude and he has had success. Big Ben is huge, so is Derek Anderson from Cleveland. Hasselback is a tall guy as well.

I would say 6'2" is probably about average for NFL qbs. Average is not prototypical imo.

Convenient for you to leave out the 250. Not one of the QBs you mentioned is even close. LOL

You can't pick just one side of your equation and now claim you are right. If this was math..you failed half the problem.

BTW, garrard is 6'1". Culpepper was 6'4"..and the only QB to be over 250.

You are wrong, accept it.

No, I'm not wrong. I want my QBs to be as tall and big as possible. I am sure every GM in the NFL salivates over the size of Cuilpeppers and Russel. I'm not saying that every NFL QB is that big, I am saying if there was a quarterback factory, that's what they'd be pumping out.

Wow. You really just can't admit when you are wrong.

You said six five and 250 was the standard. You never gave your opinion.l

Go back and read what you wrote. Pathetic.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Carson Palmer - 6'5" and 230. My guess is he's heavier than that, though.

Quinn - 6'2" and 240

Anderson - 6'6" and "230". Like Palmer, I believe he is bigger than this.

Roethlisberger - 6'5" 241 - Probably heavier as well.

Manning - 6'5" 230

Garrard - 6'1" 245 after fasting for a week or so.

Vince Young - 6'5", 235

Byron Leftwich - 6'5", 250 great player until injuries caught up

Manning - 6'4" 230

Brady - 6'4" 225

McNabb - 6'2" 240

Collins - 6'4" 230

Campbell - 6'5" 235

Cutler - 6'3" 235

Leinart - 6'5" 235

Alex Smith 6'4" 210

Rusell - 6'6" 265

Hasselback - 6'4" 225

Rivers - 6'5" 230

Bulger - 6'3" 215

Romo - 6'2" 225

Brees - 6'0" 210

Culpepper - 6'5" 260

These are the guys that have been premiere prospects or have had tremendous seasons the past couple of years. As you can see, the weight is probably a little lower than 250 and the height is probably about 6'4". If I was building quarterbacks for a living, I'd add some size to them from 225 and make a thicker, better, player.

Palmer: Why do you guess that he is heavier?

Anderson: Again why?

Lemme guess..cause it helps your pathetic argument.

Byron Leftwich: Great player. LOL What are you smoking. Injuries caught up. Dude he is 27. He never passed for 20 tds. Only once did he complete 60 percent of his passes. YOU CLEARLY DON'T KNOW JACKSHIT.

The point is not what YOU would do..you said that they were the prototype/standard. Clearly you were wrong.

The best QBs in the league don't even come close to 250. Manning, brady, Romo, Favre..nowhere close.