McCarthy's criticism of Jason Wilde 'unprofessional'

[motife]

PackerReport.com's Doug Ritchay offers his thoughts on Packers coach Mike McCarthy's reaction toward a recent report that Al Harris is unhappy with his contract. McCarthy's public outburst at the reporter was unprofessional, Ritchay says.

Twice during my coverage of the Green Bay Packers, I was called to the “principalà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢sâ↚¬Â office for apparently misbehaving.
This was during the Mike Holmgren era, and Holmgren had a problem with two stories I wrote for the Green Bay News-Chronicle. One was a column dealing, somewhat on the humorous side, of the Packers signing Jim McMahon. A hated former Bear now a Packer? I called out the Packers for signing this washed-up QB and Holmgren wasn’t pleased. The other incident was a game story during the 1997 season, when I wrote the Packers’ win at New England was the most significant road during Holmgren’s tenure. Not sure what was wrong with that, but Holmgren said at the time it’s hard winning on the road, and “weââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ve won Chicago and Detroit.” He was upset for no reason, and looking back at it now I laugh about how much a coach worried about what was written in the local “fishwrap.à¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚

The reason I bring this up this week is I learned through a radio show new Packers coach Mike McCarthy was a bit peeved at a story Jason Wilde had in the Wisconsin State Journal, saying cornerback Al Harris wasn’t too giddy about his contract status.

I know Jason, he does a good job. He doesn’t have to answer to anybody, but McCarthy called aside Wilde after a recent minicamp practice and unloaded on him for the story. McCarthy was mad at the story, which made no sense. Wilde reported news, anything wrong with that? But this gets worse. McCarthy apparently unloaded some expletives toward Wilde, at least that’s what he said on ESPN Radio 1510 in Milwaukee.

Furthermore, he did it in front of other media, making an example out of Wilde. Classless.

If McCarthy had a problem with the story, why not speak to the reporter in question in a professional manner and give him or her the respect that is deserved? Why come out and fire four-letter words? All this does is make the media see McCarthy in a darker light, which could come back to haunt him if the Packers struggle this season.

Also, McCarthy is entering his first regular season as an NFL head coach. He should be more worried about his roster and his seasonal plan rather than a newspaper story. Being new to his role, it wouldn’t hurt to start a good relationship with the media.

This type of approach with the media, scouring daily stories and pointing out certain stories, has been going on for quite some time. I don’t have a problem with people showing a coach something in a story, but to call this person out and criticize his work is ludicrous.

After Holmgren had his one-sided talk with me, we joked around in the newspaper office that we had to send every Packers story I wrote to Holmgren before it could be published. He was our editor and heaven forbid we anger this god-like figure.

The way I see things is this way: the media covers the Packers to update fans on the team. If the media only covers the team the way coaches want it covered, then the fans are getting cheated. No question, coaches are control freaks, and unless McCarthy becomes a real sports editor of a newspaper, he should pay attention to something he knows about, and that’s football. He has no business trying to force a media member how to cover the team. It would be like us trying to tell him how to coach.

It still baffles me these coaches take this approach. You would think being in their position the last thing they would worry about is what our 10 fingers put in the paper or on the Internet. What about beating the Bears or a “Cover-2” defense?

Maybe we should take it as a compliment. We know they read and we know it affects them. The problem is coaches take it too far at times and show their true colors. For now, McCarthy’s true colors don’t seem to be green

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was a cowardly act by McCarthy. Wilde is dependent on McCarthy as a news source, and is not in a position to defend himself at a news conference. If Wilde's information was wrong, McCarthy could have told him privately, and Wilde might have printed a retraction. I guess Wilde's story was true.

[MadtownPacker]

Harris NEVER was quoted saying he would hold out! NEVER! his agent even denied it! So STFU Harlan, you sorry piece of garbage!

[Tarlam!]

I disagree Blue Dog. The report has been denied by all people involved. M3 has just lost a top 5 receiver, and the press also used its muscle to try and concoct bad blood between the new #1 receiver and the team.

I think M3 sacrificed his own good reputation to try and protect the team from further rumor-mongering. That is anything but cowardly.


Wilde is obviopusly not dependant on M3 for news, otherwise he would have no "source" on the Harris "story".

[MadtownPacker]

I bet the players respect what M3 did and that's whos respect matters most, not some sniveling fan like Harlan.

[Oscar]

Well said Mad. I don't see his actions as out of line at all.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The true believers rally around the great leader. Donald Driver, Al Harris, these are good boys, they don't care about money, they too are true believers. Journalists are heretics, trying to turn the good boys into bad boys.

[Tarlam!]

You're finally typing the rite words, but that damned sarcastic accent has got to go! :mrgreen:

[RashanGary]

McCarthy was pissed because it was untrue. The media is trying to uncover a huge rebelion and they can go so far as to stretch the truth quite a bit. McCarthy is new at his post and was probably irrate that Wilde lied in a story and the lies happened to make his organization look worse. He went off on the liar just like the media go off on a bad decision maker.

The way I look at it, if a reporter or media person can't handle critisism about his writing then he should find something else to do with his time because a coach is in a position to be scrutinized and so is a writer. If you don't like it then you do something about it, you bunch of pussys. It's funny how they can write and rip, but when someone does it strait to their face they get defensive. He could have brought him aside, but why? Did Wilde bring the Packers aside. Maybe Wilde needs to find another profession if he can't take critisizm and maybe he should start taking the Packers aside before he prints things becuase obviously they would like that same respect. What a bunch of fucking panzies.

Reporters can be a bunch of whiny little pussy's.

[Patler]

The idiotic analysis by Doug Ritchay demonstrates the problem with the media today at all levels.

He says Wilde was just reporting the "news". In the past, I understood "news" to be factual information. News reporters now are nothing more than gossip columnists. A reporter can insult, belittle, criticize players, coaches the organization in print to thousands and thousands of readers (they hope), but heaven forbid that the coach insult him in front of a few journalists.

Face it, Wilde thought he had a scoop, he ran with it, and it blew up in his face. Tough. Grow up. Investigate your sources next time.

What ever happened to the media needing corroboration from two sources before pinting a story?

[Homer Jay]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the media will never, NEVER, let the truth get in the way of a good story. If you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick and you get to say you got the scoop. Whatever happened to verifying a story. Why not ask Al Harris before going with a story like that?

[Packgator]

If the story is untrue and without merit then McCarthy had every right. If it is true and McCarthy knew it to be true he probably should have done it privately. Either way I have no problem with it. MM is simply sticking up for the best interest of the team and organization.

[MJZiggy]

The idiotic analysis by Doug Ritchay demonstrates the problem with the media today at all levels.

He says Wilde was just reporting the "news". In the past, I understood "news" to be factual information. News reporters now are nothing more than gossip columnists. A reporter can insult, belittle, criticize players, coaches the organization in print to thousands and thousands of readers (they hope), but heaven forbid that the coach insult him in front of a few journalists.

Face it, Wilde thought he had a scoop, he ran with it, and it blew up in his face. Tough. Grow up. Investigate your sources next time.

What ever happened to the media needing corroboration from two sources before pinting a story?

Aaahh, factual news stories with verifiable sources...I remember them well! Perhaps as readers we should take a stand and call out the reporter ourselves.

[pbmax]

Harris NEVER was quoted saying he would hold out! NEVER! his agent even denied it! So STFU Harlan, you sorry piece of garbage!
Straw man argument Mad, Wilde's source and article did not say it was a holdout. He skipped the voluntary workout, a holdout would involve something he is contractually obligated to do.

Second, the stated reason for the absence doesn't have to be the ONLY reason for the absence. He could easily be away because he is attending to family matters AND he is unhappy about the contract.

And [edit] Harris, his agent and the team's statements do not give the lie to the report. No one said Harris is happy about his deal and the most that can be concluded is that the agent and Harris have promised not to go McKenzie or be Walker about this.

Its easy to smear the media in general. But no one has come up with a credible reason why a team source lied to Wilde.

If anyone is looking to foment rebellion, Nick, its the source. But there is no reason to doubt him/her yet.

And McCarthy does have better things to do. He isn't sticking up for players here. He's sticking up for the organization. A commendable thing. But he went about it in a very clumsy way. Its now part of his public reputation and many people, media and NFL types, are going to be poking him with a stick.

[pbmax]

One other thing. Even if McCarthy was right on every point he made to Wilde, he doesn't yet have the heft to carry this off. Ditka was beloved and feared by the media, or seen as comical. Parcells and Knight the same way, minus being seen as comical.

This isn't going to put a damper on articles McCarthy may not like. Its going to encourage them. McCarthy isn't feared and it remains to be seen if he force his will by shutting Wilde out.

I don't think this was a good play, he took a step back here.

[Patler]

The Packers have had their share of bad press this year, starting with the hiring of MM himself. Then it was Favre, the inactivity in free agency, Favre, the inactivity in free agency, Walker, more FA inactivity, Driver, then Harris. Heck, the Driver story was made into a bigger deal by some than it should have been.

MM may not have the rep yet to control the media, but this was his first step towards that. Basically, he took a stand that publishing rumors and checking the facts later will not be ignored by the team. The media has had a free run at the Packers every since January. MM just told them enough was enough.

Maybe Harris did have multiple reasons for not being there, so what? Even if he did, publishing that he was boycotting because of dissatisfaction is nothing more than exagerating. Who knows what his primary reason was? Absent the other reasons, would he have boycotted just on his contract? That's what was implied.

Journalists used to have integrity and pride. Now all they want is to be first with a big story. Doesn't matter if they are wrong 10 times, so long as the get the "biggie" once. I used to believe what was in the paper, what the "talking heads" reported. When did Cronkite, Brinckley, etc. get caught with an untrue story?

As I said before, all we have now are gossip columnists. Some of what they write turns out to be true, much of it is only half true, and some is blatantly false.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Imagine that Jason Wilde had stood up in a press conference and directed a profanity-laced tirade at McCarthy.

He would have been escorted out of the room by security, and would have likely lost his job. Most in this forum would have labeled Wilde a classless jerk.

Why does McCarthy get a pass, and even a high-five from some of you, for this behavior? The answer is because he is a high priest in the Packer Church, and you are hopelessly biased in your thinking.

What McCarthy did was gutless, he used his position of power to bully somebody who caused him trouble. And as I posted before, his extreme defensiveness suggests that Wilde hit a vulnerable nerve.

Wilde is well respected in his field. I didn't read his story, but I expect he had good sources for it. People outside of the Packer cult, such as the journalist who wrote the story at the start of this thread, see events with clear eyes.

[Homer Jay]

You didn't read the article, but you expect he had good sources? I think you mean that people who agree with you see events with clear vision. Why is it that anyone that disagrees with you is a member of a cult who just can't or won't see things clearly? Is your opinion the only truth?

[Harlan Huckleby]

McCarthy was pissed because it was untrue. The media is trying to uncover a huge rebelion and they can go so far as to stretch the truth quite a bit. McCarthy is new at his post and was probably irrate that Wilde lied

Wilde lied? Please identify his lie. I haven't heard anything specific that Wilde said beyond reporting what he learned from sources.

Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists. Been watching this for 10 years.

[MadtownPacker]

Harlan is full of it. He doesnt even believe what he is sayin. Just trying to stick up for the "little guy" in his twisted opinion.

Why do you side against M3, Harlan? Cuz he aint a wimp like you? He aint PC??? Keep that "dont offend anyone" shit in the office, you pansy.

[GrnBay007]

Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists. Been watching this for 10 years.

Yeah? so the fans are right......what's the problem? :razz:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Mad, you are a welcome addition to the wonderful melting pot called America. But SPEAK ENGLISH!

I read your post twice, don't know what you are saying. I'm supposed to be against MMM? The only word I understood was "pussy", or did you say "pansy"?


EDIT: ok, you edited your post, now i understand. Ummm, I side against McCarthy because he acted like an ass.

[MadtownPacker]

Mad, you are a welcome addition to the wonderful melting pot called America. But SPEAK ENGLISH!

I read your post twice, don't know what you are saying. I'm supposed to be against MMM? The only word I understood was "pussy", or did you say "pansy"?


EDIT: ok, you edited your post, now i understand. Ummm, I side against McCarthy because he acted like an ass.If thats why you side against M3 then we all have great motivation to side against you.

BTW I said pansy, sounds like something a PCed up, proper English speaking chump like you would say but you are likely what you said also.

[Harlan Huckleby]

well, we are what we eat.

[RashanGary]

McCarthy was pissed because it was untrue. The media is trying to uncover a huge rebelion and they can go so far as to stretch the truth quite a bit. McCarthy is new at his post and was probably irrate that Wilde lied

Wilde lied? Please identify his lie. I haven't heard anything specific that Wilde said beyond reporting what he learned from sources.

Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists. Been watching this for 10 years.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=84581&ntpid=1

SAT., MAY 20, 2006 - 12:37 AM
Packers: Missing at minicamp
JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
GREEN BAY -

According to a team source, the veteran cornerback is skipping the three-day, five-practice minicamp - which technically is voluntary - because he would like the team to upgrade his contract.


Maybe he was using a poor source, but the fact of the matter is that he opened up his story by saying a source said this.....He followed it up by saying Harris denied it somewhere in the middle of the article, but he point of his story is that Harris is holding out for money. The way he construced that article was unprofessional IMO and McCarthy is man enough to tell him about it. Next time the little pansy should fight back instead of rotating around the talk radio circuit whining about how he got mistreated.

And BTW, Journelists who are friends with each other and can easily relate to the situation are not objective. If you think that, the detatchment from reality is on you.

If a reporter doesn't want to be called out on his writing then don't write it. You seem to have no problem calling me out HH. You are a senior member here at Packerrats. Is what you're doing dispicable? I don't think so. The writers don't like being called to task on their irresponsible acts and McCarthy is a blue collar guy who talks in 4 letter words. If you don't like it, find a new job. But I'm sorry if I have no sympathy for a little pussy who hides behind his pen.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see nothing improper or misleading in what Wilde reported there. Uncomfortable for the organization is all.

[GrnBay007]

Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists. Been watching this for 10 years.


I hope by this statement you are not saying that by any stretch of the word that the journalists are actually siding with the players?

[retailguy]

I'm siding with the Chunky Soup group. No soup for you dawg! Or for Al, either. So there.

[RashanGary]

I see nothing improper or misleading in what Wilde reported there. Uncomfortable for the organization is all.

So what is your point? Should McCarthy just say nothing?

He felt it was a misleading artical. Does he not have a right to tell a reporter how he feels?

You can argue his tactic of cussing him out, but it can also be argued that Wilde wrote an artical that wasn't a direct representation of what happened. McCarthy got pissed and let him have it. Wilde responded by cowering like a little girl and then talking all big to his reporter buddies. The guy is a sissy as far as I'm concerned. He should own it and shut up. If he doesn't liek MM now, so be it, but there is no need to tell everyone how bad you where treated. I just think it's a chicken shit action.

And yeah, I'll side with the organization every time a writer exaggerates a situation. Just like CNN sending guys with middle eastern decent inot NASCAR to see how they where treated. It happened that they where treated wonderfully, but they thought the hicks would mistreat them. It is just baiting and irresponsible shit. Don't make the mistake of thinking reporters don't fuck up. Don't make the mistake of assuming that they are the only objective minds. Don't forget that they have stake in certain situations as well.

I don't always take the Packers side, but in this case, I think McCarthy let the little twit have it. As far as I'm concerned, I hope they let more of those crap writers have it as well.

[Deputy Nutz]

Imagine that Jason Wilde had stood up in a press conference and directed a profanity-laced tirade at McCarthy.

He would have been escorted out of the room by security, and would have likely lost his job. Most in this forum would have labeled Wilde a classless jerk.

Why does McCarthy get a pass, and even a high-five from some of you, for this behavior? The answer is because he is a high priest in the Packer Church, and you are hopelessly biased in your thinking.

What McCarthy did was gutless, he used his position of power to bully somebody who caused him trouble. And as I posted before, his extreme defensiveness suggests that Wilde hit a vulnerable nerve.

Wilde is well respected in his field. I didn't read his story, but I expect he had good sources for it. People outside of the Packer cult, such as the journalist who wrote the story at the start of this thread, see events with clear eyes.

Harlan, you are so full of shit. There is a huge difference between what a reporter can get away with, and what the Head Coach of this franchise can do. Stop being the moronic devil's advocate. I guess you have a problem the way Vince Lombardi handled the media? This was absolutely no different. It is time that reporters start having a little respect for this organization, especially own that is gracious enough to give this reporter, and others office space at lambeau field. Reporters like Wilde have been given total access to McCarthy and Thompson, and he has no reason to go off on a little bitty source and write an article that ignites flames in Green Bay. Fans and the organization are sick of hearing about a mutany of players in Green Bay upset with their contracts. It was horse shit, and McCarthy certainly called him on it And the funny thing is now everyone knows about the incident, so the media can right whatever they want about him, but the fans will know the truth.

[retailguy]

I don't always take the Packers side, but in this case, I think McCarthy let the little twit have it. As far as I'm concerned, I hope they let more of those crap writers have it as well.


Well, this should definitely help merchandise sales. Nick, what do you think "tags" had to say in his phone call to M3? You do think he got one, don't you? These guys have language in their contracts that prohibit things like this. It WON'T happen again...

[Homer Jay]

Coaches have been going off on reporters as long as there has been newspapers. If MM doesn't' like the way reporters handle their job he will blast them again. I like what McCarthy did.

[pbmax]

SAT., MAY 20, 2006 - 12:37 AM
Packers: Missing at minicamp
JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
GREEN BAY -

According to a team source, the veteran cornerback is skipping the three-day, five-practice minicamp - which technically is voluntary - because he would like the team to upgrade his contract.


Maybe he was using a poor source, but the fact of the matter is that he opened up his story by saying a source said this.....He followed it up by saying Harris denied it somewhere in the middle of the article, but he point of his story is that Harris is holding out for money. The way he construced that article was unprofessional IMO and McCarthy is man enough to tell him about it. Next time the little pansy should fight back instead of rotating around the talk radio circuit whining about how he got mistreated.

And BTW, Journelists who are friends with each other and can easily relate to the situation are not objective. If you think that, the detatchment from reality is on you.

If a reporter doesn't want to be called out on his writing then don't write it. You seem to have no problem calling me out HH. You are a senior member here at Packerrats. Is what you're doing dispicable? I don't think so. The writers don't like being called to task on their irresponsible acts and McCarthy is a blue collar guy who talks in 4 letter words. If you don't like it, find a new job. But I'm sorry if I have no sympathy for a little pussy who hides behind his pen.
Here is the straw man argument again. Only Nick and Madtown have said anything about Harris holding out. You can't be a holdout during a VOLUNTARY camp. Wilde correctly labels this skipping.

Second, Wilde trusts the source, and it is the lead. You can't start a story with the denial.

And please note, he says its a team source, not someone close to Harris, his agent or the guy who starches Andrew Brandt's shirts, but a team source. No one has impeached the credibility of the source. And the source has no reason to make trouble for the team. So instead of crying about the messenger, we should wonder why the team pre-emptively leaked this news.

As for fighting back, do you think he can pull a Will McDonough and punch McCarthy like McDonough did to Raymond Clayborn? C'mon. And as for making the rounds complaining, I have managed somehow not to hear him. Can't be a very big tour.

Lastly, as for lying or the article being wrong, the only info to stand on here is McCarthy's denial, the agent saying they won't be McKenzie or Walker and Harris saying its not like that. These aren't categorical denials. No one has disproven anything.

The only question I have is: was this a part of what McCarthy and Thompson said they had learned from the Walker experience? Or was this source acting on his own?

[pbmax]

OK, I like them both, and am tired of disagreeing with Nick, Mad et.al. So now its time for something completely different.

Or slightly different. Paul Zimmerman wrote this a while back after the TO-Hugh Douglas fight last year. Some great stories, including two involving writers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/11/09/fights/index.html

[Oscar]

PB, I can't speak for all the Packer Rats.. But... T.O. and Hugh Douglas don't play for the Pack. So I could care less about there lil spat..... I want a head coach that is gonna stand up for his players and his team..The Green Bay Packers!!! Were a bunch of crazy rats.... And we love our team!!So F@@k anyone that stands in our way.. Seems we have a H.C. that thinks that same way.. :D

[MJZiggy]

I love articles like that...

[pbmax]

PB, I can't speak for all the Packer Rats.. But... T.O. and Hugh Douglas don't play for the Pack. So I could care less about there lil spat..... I want a head coach that is gonna stand up for his players and his team..The Green Bay Packers!!! Were a bunch of crazy rats.... And we love our team!!So F@@k anyone that stands in our way.. Seems we have a H.C. that thinks that same way.. :D
Perhaps I should have clarified Jeffro, the article is not about TO or Hugh Douglas. Its the best actual locker room fights Zimmerman knows about. And the connection is that two of the stories involve fights with writers.

[Patler]

And as I posted before, his extreme defensiveness suggests that Wilde hit a vulnerable nerve.


Nope. Not at all. In fact just the opposite. Absolutely.

MM knows it was false. Thus he is in the position of power and control and can call out Wilde for the story. If Wilde hit a nerve because of some truth in it, MM could never have taken such a firm stance. Wilde would be able to contradict him with the facts that were the basis of his story. It would be within Wilde's power to make MM look extremely bad. MM would never have put Wilde in control like that.

If there was any truth in it, MM could not have taken the public stance. The best he could have done is the office discussion and the "I wish you hadn't done this because...."

If there was any truth to the story at all, what MM did would have transferred power and control to Wilde. That hasn't happened. The story is false. Absolutely. This wasn't an instinctive, gut reaction on the spur of the moment.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It is time that reporters start having a little respect for this organization,

I don't think reporters should take loyalty oaths. They try to be objective. Wilde did nothing disrespectful. It was McCarthy who was out of line.

[Harlan Huckleby]

MM knows it was false. Thus he is in the position of power and control and can call out Wilde for the story.

I have yet to learn what is "false." Wilde just relayed information from his sources, that Harris was unhappy with his contract and missing minicamp as a result. You are shooting the messenger.

[Patler]

MM knows it was false. Thus he is in the position of power and control and can call out Wilde for the story.

I have yet to learn what is "false." Wilde just relayed information from his sources, that Harris was unhappy with his contract and missing minicamp as a result. You are shooting the messenger.

Who knows if he even had a source, or if the source has an crdibility. I'm not shooting anyone, just analyzing the situation, based on what was written by Wilde and about MM calling him on it. That's all, and my conclusion from that analysis is that Wilde must have flown with some pretty bad info.

Maybe you think it is fine for a writer to report every rumor he hears. I for one would like to see them verify it. It should be unusual when a story turns out to be false. Sadly, that is no longer the case.

[Patler]

I have yet to learn what is "false." Wilde just relayed information from his sources, that Harris was unhappy with his contract and missing minicamp as a result. You are shooting the messenger.

Since when are writers merely messengers of whatever anyone tells them? They have a responsibility to their readers to do more than that.

[Homer Jay]

I always wonder about unnamed sources, and I agree, verifying the truth of the story is or at east should be a big part of the job.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I base a lot of my interpretation on Wilde's credibility. I've followed him for a while, he's a good analysist and even-handed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Since when are writers merely messengers of whatever anyone tells them? They have a responsibility to their readers to do more than that.

We're back to square one: what did Wilde report that proved to be false? I agree he should print a retraction if some info was mistaken, but I see nothing to retract.

[Bretsky]

Since when are writers merely messengers of whatever anyone tells them? They have a responsibility to their readers to do more than that.

We're back to square one: what did Wilde report that proved to be false? I agree he should print a retraction if some info was mistaken, but I see nothing to retract.


What did he print that was true ?

What he wrote was speculation from a source.

We really don't know if it was made up or true.

So does the responsibility go on the writer to show a credible source, or can he make what he wants up and then force the others to prove his story is not true ?

And while I don't like MM calling him out like he did, if the answer is the story was not credible, then if I was MM I woudn't give him a second of my time for the next year.

[RashanGary]

Technically the arical was true. A source could have said that. The way it was written, it was just spreading rumors. Pretty lame. I'm glad MM took him to task on it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So does the responsibility go on the writer to show a credible source, or can he make what he wants up and then force the others to prove his story is not true ?

Of course a writer can't make stuff up - are you alleging that's what happened here?

It is not a writer's responsibility to identify his sources.

The difference between spreading a rumor, and reporting information from a credible source should be obvious. That's not to say that the info will always prove true in either case.

I want sports reporters to repeat opinions and tips from credible sources. I realize they might end up being mistaken, the reader takes info from unnamed sources with a grain of salt. I sure as hell wouldn't want to just read summaries of the official press releases and scripted press conferences!

[Harlan Huckleby]

The way it was written, it was just spreading rumors.

By rumor, you mean something untrue? What was spread that was untrue? There is no hard evidence. I find the report credible.

[Patler]

The way it was written, it was just spreading rumors.

By rumor, you mean something untrue? What was spread that was untrue? There is no hard evidence. I find the report credible.

That's where you and I differ. I don't find anything inherently credible in it at all. A "team source" could be a comment from a player overheard in the locker room, who has no inside information at all. Wilde may have chosen to pass on the rumor, thinking he had a big scoop. The "information" might have come from somone who knew Harris wasn't going to be at camp, heard he wanted to discuss his contract, and then assumed the first was based on the second, when there may have been no correlation at all.

[Bretsky]

So does the responsibility go on the writer to show a credible source, or can he make what he wants up and then force the others to prove his story is not true ?

Of course a writer can't make stuff up - are you alleging that's what happened here?

It is not a writer's responsibility to identify his sources.

The difference between spreading a rumor, and reporting information from a credible source should be obvious. That's not to say that the info will always prove true in either case.



Are you saying he has a credible source ?

Honestly how would we know. Maybe there is just as much of a chance that he has a terrible source or no source than a good one. And if that's the case MM should confront him

[MadtownPacker]

When lowlifes like harlan take someones side it make it very obvious who is wrong.

[MJZiggy]

Last I checked, these were all big boys. If Wilde can't handle hearing an angry coach's opinion, expressed the way an angry coach would, perhaps he should switch to reporting on gardening? I would be really interested in finding out why last year's hibiscus plant is failing to bloom this season...

[RashanGary]

Obviously HH is correct here. Only him and the reporters who are all buddys can see this objectively.

It's quite obvious that Wilde was just reporting an investigated fact that he had good reason to believe was true.

Just disregard the fact that Harris, MM and Thompson all said it was untrue. The fact of the matter is that Wildes unnamed source is more credible than Harris and Thompson. He has every right to report these unbiased, non-headline searching facts to all of his anxious readers without confirming it with the people involved. In fact, he is perfectly in line by reporting it even after all people involved deny it even exists.

It's just good journalism and McCarthy has no right to complain when someone is spreading rumors that he knows to be untrue.

I think everyone should stop disagreeing with HH right now because its quite clear that he acctually knows everything and McCarthy was just bitching because he was reporting the hard truth.

And what is HH's brilliant stand? Do you have proof.

Well, if you don't count the words of Harris, TT and MM you could argue that there is no proof that he is spreading rumors. You could make a case that just reporting every source you hear is responsible. Of course we have to disregard the FACT that no other reporter in the world has before, during or since reported anything similar but Wilde and HH and those who think it was rude are all the objective thinkers here. No proof otherwise. YEAH RIGHT.

I and most people here choose to think it was irresponsible to quote one source without investigating further but who are we to argue with the all knowing, all objective HH. We're just emotionally involved fans who can't think outside our own wishes.

[Fritz]

I'm sorry, but I'm with PBMax and Harlan on this one. Even if MM had every right to complain about the article, doing it in front of other reporters is no way to handle it. Put it into the perspective of your own job: your boss rips into you in front of your co-workers. Even if you deserved it, you're going to be p.o.'d that the boss didn't pull you behind closed doors. It makes you look like an idiot - unnecessarily. And even if you were wrong, there was no need to make an example out of you in order to make others cower and fall in line. It doesn't work for anybody for very long. People just get angry and resentful.

And those of you who say make generalizations - and they are generalizations - about all reporters being pansies, reporting without facts, and so on - let's just say you're right. So...does that make it okay for coaches to be classless, too?

It's just bad, bad human relations.

[Bretsky]

I'm sorry, but I'm with PBMax and Harlan on this one. Even if MM had every right to complain about the article, doing it in front of other reporters is no way to handle it. Put it into the perspective of your own job: your boss rips into you in front of your co-workers. Even if you deserved it, you're going to be p.o.'d that the boss didn't pull you behind closed doors. It makes you look like an idiot - unnecessarily. And even if you were wrong, there was no need to make an example out of you in order to make others cower and fall in line. It doesn't work for anybody for very long. People just get angry and resentful.

And those of you who say make generalizations - and they are generalizations - about all reporters being pansies, reporting without facts, and so on - let's just say you're right. So...does that make it okay for coaches to be classless, too?


It's just bad, bad human relations.


FRITZ,

I'm also of the view that MM didn't need to call the reporter out in front of others. You do that behind the scenes, and if Wilde was irresponsible as a coach you can choose to eliminate him from your trusted group.

I'm not even sure what I'm arguing with Harlan. My only point is that it's entirely possible Wilde had a crap source and didn't follow up, and if that's the case it was poor reporting. It's also possible that it's true and all involved are denying it.

Either way the route MM took could have been handled better.

[Fritz]

Hey Bretsky -

I'm not knowledgable about the validity of the article, so I'm simply commenting on how it was handled - it seems you and I are in agreement on this one.

MM, I hope, will learn from this.

[MadtownPacker]

I'm sorry, but I'm with PBMax and Harlan on this one. Even if MM had every right to complain about the article, doing it in front of other reporters is no way to handle it. Put it into the perspective of your own job: your boss rips into you in front of your co-workers. Even if you deserved it, you're going to be p.o.'d that the boss didn't pull you behind closed doors. It makes you look like an idiot - unnecessarily. And even if you were wrong, there was no need to make an example out of you in order to make others cower and fall in line. It doesn't work for anybody for very long. People just get angry and resentful.

And those of you who say make generalizations - and they are generalizations - about all reporters being pansies, reporting without facts, and so on - let's just say you're right. So...does that make it okay for coaches to be classless, too?

It's just bad, bad human relations.
You sure you aint a newsreporter also? Cuz you just twisted up what I said. I called harlan a pansy, not "all reporters". We all know Harlan is a wimp, no one can deny that.

M3 doesnt employ the reporters, he doesnt owe them anything. Did Wilde pull M3 aside and ask if the story was true? Nope, he didnt.

These reporters are given major juice card access by the Packers and the NFL, the least they can do is get it right.

As for M3 being classless, well I will leave that up to those who are always concerned about "offending" others. I like to call it like I see it instead concerning myself with hurting someones lil feelings.

[Tarlam!]

Why do you do that behind the scenes, exactly? He did it in front of the clique of reporters, not on a national press conference - that's behind the scenes enough. In fact, if some repoter hadn't reported it, we fans wouldn't even have this 3 page thread.

Kiper Jr reported the Pack had done the deal to trade up and get Bush. A source must've told him.

In an effort to be the first out with a "story", there is as much pressure on these reporters to compare with the sports heros they are covering.

Just as when Brett tosses a hail Mary and gets scorched, so do the press guys.

And, rightly so.

[Patler]

There is no boss/employee relationship between MM and Wilde. None at all. These guys should be at arms length, and if MM felt he and the team were wronged by Wilde, there is nothing wrong with making an example of him in front of a few other reporters.

Now if Wilde's editor was displeased, that converstation should take place away from other coworkers.

[RashanGary]

What the hell ever happened to the good old fashioned alpha male? MM owns his ground. I respect that about him.

[Tarlam!]

I believe if it did get out that DD and Harris were unhappy, that was the last thing they wanted. Maybe they did kick up a ruckus behind closed doors. Both guys told the media "I am no Walker/MM".

The strory was not meant to be told. The "source" in either case should not have been quoted without the player's consent to begin with. Any potential harm would only come from media pressure.

I think M3 was ensuring this message was well delivered.

[Deputy Nutz]

It is time that reporters start having a little respect for this organization,

I don't think reporters should take loyalty oaths. They try to be objective. Wilde did nothing disrespectful. It was McCarthy who was out of line.

There is a difference between loyalty and respect Harlan. McCarthy set a tone, he wasn't out of line, Wilde printed a story that blew up in his face.

[Rastak]

It is time that reporters start having a little respect for this organization,

I don't think reporters should take loyalty oaths. They try to be objective. Wilde did nothing disrespectful. It was McCarthy who was out of line.

There is a difference between loyalty and respect Harlan. McCarthy set a tone, he wasn't out of line, Wilde printed a story that blew up in his face.


My take is that this is a slow news day so that's why it's being discussed so much. Here are my two points I'd like to make.

1) It ain't a good idea to go to war with the press, so this may not have been a very smart move.
2) It IS unproffesional to cuss someone out at your place of business...PERIOD. It may be ok at the local saloon at 1:00am but he should have a bit more class.

Anyway, it isn't a big deal. I am getting a kick out of the Vikes and Packs new head coaches. Childress tries to be or is real cereberal but says some of the weirdest things...he's either a genius or he's nuts. McCarthy reminds me a little of Tice. cussing a guy out and the way the seems to shoot straight. Maybe that's a good thing for a head coach.

We'll see how it plays out this summer.

[packrulz]

This is on about the came level as the cell phone incident last year when Sherman laid into reporter because his cell phone was ringing. Coaches & reporters get into spats all the time. I bet Wilde gets the facts straight next time. :oops:

[Patler]

2) It IS unproffesional to cuss someone out at your place of business...PERIOD. It may be ok at the local saloon at 1:00am but he should have a bit more class.


Those days, I'm afraid, are past. Acceptability in language has declined drastically in the last 30 years.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wilde printed a story that blew up in his face.

Story didn't blow up in his face, McCarthy did. The story was that a source in the Packers org said Harris missed minicamp because he's unhappy with contract. Nothing wrong with that report. Just because the Packer Cultists don't like the story doesn't prove it false.

[Rastak]

Wilde printed a story that blew up in his face.

Story didn't blow up in his face, McCarthy did. The story was that a source in the Packers org said Harris missed minicamp because he's unhappy with contract. Nothing wrong with that report. Just because the Packer Cultists don't like the story doesn't prove it false.


Our good friend Harvey dismissed the Driver story as BS....BUT the dude suddenly got an extension so there was smoke AND fire on that story.
I think there is most likely something to this one also.....nothing extremely sinister but Mr Harris could be an unhappy camper.....

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ummm, a lot of people have suggested that Jason Wilde should have gotten a confirmation from McCarthy or another Packer authority. Well, OF COURSE McCarthy or anybody with the Packers who wants to keep their job is going to deny it. Even Harris's agent would likely deny it, since they are unlikely to want a media war of words at this point.

I do understand the point that Wilde is spreading a rumor. It's a fine line between a rumor and an opinion from a credible source. I don't mind unconfirmed stories from reporters, just as long as they are indicated as unverified. If you want to ignore all "unnamed source" reports, fine.

Wilde has a personal interest in considering the reliability of his source. His own credibility suffer if reports repeatedly prove false. So far in his career, I've come to trust Wilde. So I tend to believe there is something to the story.

[Patler]

So far in his career, I've come to trust Wilde. So I tend to believe there is something to the story.

Why, because he couldn't have gotten a little too over anxious with a hot new story?

[Patler]

Wilde printed a story that blew up in his face.

Story didn't blow up in his face, McCarthy did. The story was that a source in the Packers org said Harris missed minicamp because he's unhappy with contract. Nothing wrong with that report. Just because the Packer Cultists don't like the story doesn't prove it false.

Harlan, do you really believe the intent of the story was "Mr. ABC told me xyz."? Of course it wasn't. The intent of the story was that Harris boycotted camp because of dissatisfaction with his contract.

No one reads newspaper articles as literally as you are suggesting the article was written. If Jason Wilde thinks peope will read that article to mean only that someone told him something, and not to mean that the reason Harris wasn't there was because he was dissatisfied with his contract, than Wilde is alarmingly naive for a seasoned reporter.

[Tarlam!]

....McCarthy reminds me a little of Tice....


Oh, my. At last Ras outs himself as the troll he really is underneath this facade of "I only want to dicuss football!"

Ras, that is the most dispicable trash talk I have ever been forced to read on these pages. :lol:

[cpk1994]

"Our good friend Harvey dismissed the Driver story as BS....BUT the dude suddenly got an extension so there was smoke AND fire on that story.
I think there is most likely something to this one also.....nothing extremely sinister but Mr Harris could be an unhappy camper....."

I disagree. Michael Smith of ESPN, reported on Cold Pizza that Driver was unhappy and wanted out of GB citing an item about Driver asking Thompson for an extension in December and being refused(which was reported in the Milwauke Journal Sentinel). Later the same day he reported that Drvier wanted out, Smith changed his story on talk radio(Dan Patrick Show i think) and then when interviewed that night on Sportscenter about the Packers he mentioned only Javon Walker wanting out and made no mention of Driver. There was also the possibity that Smith was wanting to say Walker but said Driver instead which would be a good reason why Smith changed his story as soon as he could.The ironic thing is that ESPN.Com never mentioned their own guys report until they posted the article in which Driver denied it. AP did. In the end the story was BS and Driver got the extension because of Walker, not the story.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The intent of the story was that Harris boycotted camp because of dissatisfaction with his contract.

Yes, of course. This is what the unnamed source suggested. You're right, perhaps some read the story quickly and accept it as verified, gospel fact. And the rumor mill might repeat the story incorrectly. Wilde is just putting the information out there, not trying to mislead people.

You could set a standard where papers only report information from named sources, verified independently. I don't think that is necessary in sports journalism, and it would be dry and uninteresting.

I don't have any trouble keeping these "unnamed source" stories in perspective.

[MadtownPacker]

Why is harlan on here so late at night? It is creepy and gives the appearance he is trying to hook up with some late night action. Real disturbing stuff, you better stay away from him Nick.

[RashanGary]

God this is a boring time of year. We're down to sitting and arguing about Wilde's intent in his story.

At this point nobody knows. I tend to think the way the article as composed that it was misleading. Sure, most of us packerrats or freaks unearth enough info in a short amount of time to know the truth. I think most readers just read it and believe it. I think a reporter knows that when he writes.

[Patler]

Yes, of course. This is what the unnamed source suggested. You're right, perhaps some read the story quickly and accept it as verified, gospel fact. And the rumor mill might repeat the story incorrectly. Wilde is just putting the information out there, not trying to mislead people.

You could set a standard where papers only report information from named sources, verified independently. I don't think that is necessary in sports journalism, and it would be dry and uninteresting.

I don't have any trouble keeping these "unnamed source" stories in perspective.

Harlan, you seem content if sports reporters are nothing more than the sports equivalent of the old Hollywood gossip columnists. There probably is a place for that, but for the ones who are the "beat reporters" the standard should be higher. Same with the need for verification. As I mentioned before, newsreporters in the past required verification from a second source before reporting anything they didn't witness themselves. That was a basic element of their job. It shouildn't be any different just because the subject is a sports team. News is news, gossip is gossip. News reporteers shouldn't confuse their readers with gossip.

So I guess the question is, do we consider Wilde a sports newsreporter, or a sports gossip columnist?

[Harlan Huckleby]

As I mentioned before, newsreporters in the past required verification from a second source before reporting anything they didn't witness themselves. That was a basic element of their job. It shouildn't be any different just because the subject is a sports team. News is news, gossip is gossip. News reporteers shouldn't confuse their readers with gossip.

There is a middle ground between verified reports and gossip.

I don't mind that John Clayton reports from an unnamed source that the Packers are going to hire Jim Bates as head coach. I knew it might be wrong, but I also trusted it was more than just a rumor floating through a sports bar. I can weigh-up the value of these sorts of reports, they are not presented as verified, hard news. I like reading these stories.

I think it is true that journalistic standards have loosened. All you can do is adjust to it, or continue to gripe with your buddies in the nursing home.

[Patler]

I think it is true that journalistic standards have loosened. All you can do is adjust to it, or continue to gripe with your buddies in the nursing home.

I don't gripe about it. But I also don't think we automatically have to accept the standard reporters give us. We can demand a higher standard from them when we have the chance, just as MM did when given the chance.

If we demand a higher standard, eventually we will get it. Or we can follow your path and meekly accept whatever the industry decides we should have.

[Tarlam!]

...I think it is true that journalistic standards have loosened. All you can do is adjust to it, or continue to gripe with your buddies in the nursing home.

Bullshit. I will not accept mediocrity from professionals. Why should I? If your tax accountant had the same attitude, or your hooker, what would you say?

Pathetic statement. Are you ill? IÄve never seen you this shitty....

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ummm, Tarlam,

A sports columnist reporting a story from a single, unnamed source is not the same as your hooker forgeting to moan, or your accountant fudging numbers.

Single-sourced stories are not mediocrity, or unprofessional. They are information that must be taken with a grain of salt, but often prove correct.

When a columnist reports a lead that later proves correct, nobody remembers it. I'll bet the vast majority of unnamed source stories proves correct.

And Sham, you say that the typical sports fan can't weigh the evidence properly and will be mislead. You don't over-react to these stories - why do you assume other readers are too dumb to keep a proper perspective?

[Patler]

And Sham, you say that the typical sports fan can't weigh the evidence properly and will be mislead. You don't over-react to these stories - why do you assume other readers are too dumb to keep a proper perspective?

Wow, you sure do know how to exagerate HH. I never said anything close to that. Why do you insist on making things up (some would call it prevarication) just because your argument is weak?

One of the real problems with unsubstantiated stories that tend toward the sensational, is that others, including national media pick up on them, often without the background information. Soon the story becomes, "Wilde reports Harris boycotting due to contract dissatisfaction." That summary is just as "truthful" as Wilde's story, but you can see where it goes.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I think the Pack should give McCarthy the "Director of Public Relationship" title and bring back Mike Sherman as head coach.

[RashanGary]

I think the Pack should give McCarthy the "Director of Public Relationship" title and bring back Mike Sherman as head coach.

LOL...

McCarthy as PR director. That would be awfull.

[neil38133]

"Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists."

So, what's your point, that we love our team and will defend it?

[MJZiggy]

I think the whole discussion boils down to the fact that there was a time, even in sports journalism, when you published a story, not when you believed it to be true, but when you knew it to be true. You sat on the story until you could prove it. Now, reporters are so interested in getting the story first, they seem to have lost interest in getting the story right first. If Wilde had gotten the story right first, M3 would have had nothing to get upset about. If a source from the team tells you something sensational about a player, the responsible journalist checks with the plyers agent to find out how much truth there might be to the story first.

[swede]

There are lots of facts that we collectively don't know.

Buuut... weighing in on shit I know nothing about is what I do best.

What if Harris was quietly trying to get a little contract attention without making a stink? If Wilde hears from another player/coach/towel boy that Harris wants a new deal should he report it? Absolutely. He is a journalist and he has a job to do even when doing that job hurts the team and makes him a prick.

[Fritz]

By the by, for all of you who seem to be so down on reporters...John Jones and Bob Harlan were journalism majors.

Hmm. And mad, I wasn't calling you out specifically. There just seems to be a frenzy against reporters. Like every other profession, some are good, some not so good.

[Deputy Nutz]

There are lots of facts that we collectively don't know.

Buuut... weighing in on shit I know nothing about is what I do best.

What if Harris was quietly trying to get a little contract attention without making a stink? If Wilde hears from another player/coach/towel boy that Harris wants a new deal should he report it? Absolutely. He is a journalist and he has a job to do even when doing that job hurts the team and makes him a prick.

Then he should name his source. If he is getting it from a Towel boy, then he should make that clear to the reader. Hidden sources are bullshit when they are the only one that gives the story any information. Use it as a back up source, but going after Al Harris's third cousin that it is thrilled to be interviewed by a reporter and will say anything a reporter is hinting at. He wants to write a creditable article then he should get a creditable source that is willing to allow the reporter to use his name or position in the article.

[gureski]

I listen to Wilde on Homers show going all the way back to when Homer was on 1130 and working for WISN. (Now he's on 1510 WAUK).

What I find most amusing about this whole thing is the pretense that Wilde is so insulted or hurt that he was called out and even disrespected with some possible curse words?

Give me a break.

Wilde is a guy who, on a weekly basis, refers to Brett Favre as 'Lord Favre' and constantly berates Favre over normal schedule confinements and other misc things. He is an arrogant guy himself and nobody should be running to wipe his tears IF McCarthy really did take him to task. I say good for McCarthy for setting Wilde straight on the fact that he's just a reporter and not some integral part of the team. In addition to his newspaper column, Wilde is on the air every day, twice a day. He needs news. He needs stories. That's all this was about. Wilde comes off as a pompous jerk at times so much so that I have to turn the dial. Think about that statement because it means something. The guy is so arrogant at times and disrespectful that I feel the need to turn the dial rather then hear news on the team that I love most in pro-sports.

Again, don't rush to wipe this guys tears. In life you give some and you take some. Wilde got a little to big for his bridges and McCarthy came along and reminded him of his place. It will all pass and maybe Wilde will be better as a reporter because of it.

[retailguy]

or your accountant fudging numbers.




AAAAAHHHHHHHH! NOOOOOOOOO! You need a new analogy. This doesn't happen. Tell me that this doesn't happen! :mrgreen:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nutz, a reporter often can't get people to go on record. It wouldn't be possible for journalists to stop using unnamed sourced, they are under pressure to break stories. You as a reader have to trust the judgement of the writer if you are familiar with their work, or just accept that the information is unverified and could be wrong.

Shamler, your whole premise was that people often read stories too quickly to catch subtlety, or otherwise are unable to understand the credibility issue with unnamed sources. Now it seems you are backing off this position when I called it elitist. Or more accurately, you just aren't saying. Well, if people ARE smart emough to keep unnamed source stories in perspective, then you have no case!

You are trapped like a rat. You can scurry about the basement, but the bright flashlight will follow you.

[Harlan Huckleby]

IIf Wilde had gotten the story right first, M3 would have had nothing to get upset about.

Ziggy, I suspect that Wilde did get the story right. And nobody has an ounce of evidence that is was wrong.

This was a story impossible to verify. EVERYONE involved was going to deny it, whether it was true or not. The reader has to judge for themselves the credibiliy of the story, based on Wilde's track record and the overall situation.

If you don't believe it - fine.

[Harlan Huckleby]

"Packer fans on the internet always side with The Team against players & journalists."

So, what's your point, that we love our team and will defend it?

yes, that was my point.

[MJZiggy]

Harlan, next time you're in the DMV, take a good look around. Over the past 20 years or so, they have had to dummy down the news coverage because people's eyes glazed over when the tried to report something intelligent. Between that and the speed of the dissemination of information these days, again I say, they are more interested in being first than right. And by the way, if John Jones and Bob Harlan have journalism degrees, then I bet they gave a standing ovation to M3's standing up for journalistic integrity.

http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2005/04/getting-smart-about-dumbed-down-news.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan, next time you're in the DMV, take a good look around. Over the past 20 years or so, they have had to dummy down

Last time I was in the DMV, I was the dummy, I apparently left my cell phone there. Anyway, the guy at the U.S Cellular store told me the last outgoing call, which I dialed at his store. I got a sex chat line, and laughed my ass off. At least the phone found a good home and purpose before its batteries ran out.

[Patler]

I suspect that Wilde did get the story right. And nobody has an ounce of evidence that is was wrong.


For that matter, no one has one ounce of evidence that it was correct.

You have argued that MM's reaction is evidence of Wilde hitting a sore spot, or something to that effect. I believe is exactly the opposite. If there was any truth to Wilde's story, by taking Wilde to task MM would open himself to looking like a fool. It would be within Wilde's ability to verify his story, thus leaving MM with egg on his face.

It is much more likely that there is NO truth to Wilde's story, MM knows it and saw a golden opportunity to make a point with the press. The new guy in town had the chance to exert some authority, and took it. If there is any truth to the story, by openly criticizing, maybe even embarassing Wilde, MM would be giving Wilde controling power to make MM look like an idiot. I doubt (hope?) MM is not that foolish.

Give it up Harlan, your analysis in this one is weak.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ok, Shammy. "Uncle." :smile:

[Patler]

ok, Shammy. "Uncle." :smile:

He said "Uncle"! He said "Uncle"! I WIN !!!!! :D
(Have I now become the bully on the playground???)

[pbmax]

If a source from the team tells you something sensational about a player, the responsible journalist checks with the plyers agent to find out how much truth there might be to the story first.
I can't believe I left Harlan in here all alone for a weekend to deal with 93 posts on accuracy in journalism.

Ziggy, it is entirely possible that Wilde did check with the agent and the agent would only confirm on background, meaning you couldn't use him as a source. Just because there is only one listed person in the piece, doesn't mean that there is no other corroboration.

And if Harris isn't thinking about sending a message, why did he respond to Wilde's question this way: "When reached on his cell phone Friday night and asked why he wasn't attending the minicamp, Harris said, "Just family matters." Asked whether his absence had anything to do with his contract situation, Harris refused to comment." Wouldn't he have just said no?

And the agent is backpedaling in place in JS a day later, and while you can read his comments as no we aren't pulling a McKenzie and no we aren't holding out (and holdout is a red herring, you can't hold out from a voluntary workout), he certainly seems to confirm that they are asking for more money.

"On Thursday Bechta said the Harris camp might lobby for more money at the end of the 2006 season. But Bechta said the five-year, $18.635 million contract extension Harris signed in September 2004 was still too new." Not more money today, but tomorrow.

"In the interim, Bechta said Harris would never consider holding out as former Green Bay cornerback Mike McKenzie did." Red herring, he can't holdout from the voluntary second minicamp. He technically didn't even need an approved excuse.

"When asked if he was happy with his deal, Harris said: "Hell no! But I won't do what Mike McKenzie did. That's not me. That's not my style." More money, less fake injuries.

"Instead, Bechta said his plan of attack might be to try reworking Harris' deal near the end of the 2006 season. Typically at that time of the year, teams have room under the salary cap and if contracts are structured properly, they can both reward the player and offer teams future cap relief." Sounds like Harris is getting in line.

Sounds to me like he wants his deal redone. He isn't going to holdout. Clearly the redo is something he is thinking about right now.

So Wilde had the contract issue dead on. As for the motivation of Harris' absence, I can't read his mind to know if family or money came first, but neither can McCarthy. Only Harris (and the Shadow) knows for sure.

[MJZiggy]

Just one question there...If Harris is thinking about asking for more money at the end of 06 and even then won't pull a Walker or McKenzie, why hold back now? Even if you can't hold out from a voluntary camp, why bother not showing up if you're not even going to ask for the money 'til after the season?

[KYPack]

I listen to Wilde on Homers show going all the way back to when Homer was on 1130 and working for WISN. (Now he's on 1510 WAUK).

What I find most amusing about this whole thing is the pretense that Wilde is so insulted or hurt that he was called out and even disrespected with some possible curse words?

Give me a break.

Wilde is a guy who, on a weekly basis, refers to Brett Favre as 'Lord Favre' and constantly berates Favre over normal schedule confinements and other misc things. He is an arrogant guy himself and nobody should be running to wipe his tears IF McCarthy really did take him to task. I say good for McCarthy for setting Wilde straight on the fact that he's just a reporter and not some integral part of the team. In addition to his newspaper column, Wilde is on the air every day, twice a day. He needs news. He needs stories. That's all this was about. Wilde comes off as a pompous jerk at times so much so that I have to turn the dial. Think about that statement because it means something. The guy is so arrogant at times and disrespectful that I feel the need to turn the dial rather then hear news on the team that I love most in pro-sports.

Again, don't rush to wipe this guys tears. In life you give some and you take some. Wilde got a little to big for his bridges and McCarthy came along and reminded him of his place. It will all pass and maybe Wilde will be better as a reporter because of it.

Gureski,

Thanks for the local background on the radio guy.

This is helpful for the "outa-towners" who don't know much about the local radio sports weasels.

[RashanGary]

I watched Wilde and some other guy disect the Packers on TV. It was either before or after each game. Anyway, they do this competition and whoever has a better debate wins. I always end up thinking he lost and 50% of the time they'll say he won. He pretty much sucks IMHO.

[MadtownPacker]

Hmm. And mad, I wasn't calling you out specifically. There just seems to be a frenzy against reporters. Like every other profession, some are good, some not so good.
WHAT?????
How dare you not capitialize my name!

Total diss, now we have to fight! :evil:

[b bulldog]

I like Wilde and I must say he is the one reporter with enough stones to call a player out when he is having a bad season, even if it was Brett. Not trying to start this again but he was the only local reporter to do so and he deserves credit for doing so.

[Patler]

I like Wilde and I must say he is the one reporter with enough stones to call a player out when he is having a bad season, even if it was Brett. Not trying to start this again but he was the only local reporter to do so and he deserves credit for doing so.

If that's the case, he should have no complaint when he gets called out for being less than stellar too.

[b bulldog]

I agree 100% although I am beginning to think that he views himself very highly.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I find Wilde to be kind of an arrogant dick.

But he is a good football analyst.

[Rastak]

I find Wilde to be kind of an arrogant dick.

But he is a good football analyst.


He isn't backing down....from todays article....

"Cornerback Al Harris, who skipped the last minicamp to demonstrate his unhappiness with his contract, said Tuesday night he will not attend the OTAs"


http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=85746&ntpid=1

[gureski]

Look at Wilde's column today that's making headlines...

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=85746&ntpid=1

He is going right at Favre based on his own speculation that Favre is arrogant and refusing coaching. Nobody has any evidence of that and in fact, many believe in Favre's ways. Favre goes for it. When you have no running game and trot out street free agents and practice squad players as receivers then you're going to get interceptions at times. Is that Favre thumbing his nose at the world or is that merely a guy trying to win with sub-par players around him?

Regardless what you feel about that debate, it's clear that Wilde's agenda is to portray Favre as a guy who is arrogant, stubborn, and refusing coaching. The pushing of McCarthy on this subject is obviously an attempt to create a story that causes friction between Favre and McCarthy.

Again, the background here is that Wilde refers to Favre as 'Lord Favre' on almost a daily basis for reasons such as having seperately scheduled news conferences and other innocent things that you'd expect to surround a player of Favre's status. Wilde isn't unbiased in all his reporting. When you're calling a guy names and mocking him in regular conversation then it's kind of hard to respect your objectivity when you write an article about the guy being uncoachable.

I just wanted to show this as an example of Wilde's arrogance and bias.

[MadtownPacker]

""I'll tell you this: He's going to be coached to play a certain way. I believe in being aggressive, but he will be coached to play within the structure of the offense. I can assure you of that." - M3

That's enough for me. M3 is gonna give Favre the disipline he has been needing (and probably wanting too) since the Walrus left and his Dad passed away.

[gureski]

I find Wilde to be kind of an arrogant dick.

But he is a good football analyst.

Is he a good football analyst?

To overly rip Favre over the picks last year when he had 2nd and 3d string TE's running WR routes in some games is not exactly fair analysis. No running game, injuries that ravaged the team, holes in the offensive line and this guy can't say '29 interceptions' often enough in his analysis of why the team lost last year. That's not good football analysis.

I just can't see the football analysis from Wilde. He's a reporter. That's it. He's not Mel Kiper. He's not breaking down film and diagnosing defensive schemes. He probably thinks he's an analyst but as you've stated previously, the guy has a high view of himself in the overall scheme of things and that's why I think he is so pissed about the McCarthy thing. He's Jason Wilde! Former Sportswriter of the year 2003! This McCarthy cat is a rookie head coach! How dare he come at the great Wilde!

It's just an ego thing. I felt it would blow over but based on Wilde's continuing comments and articles....I don't think he's going to let it die. He's going to keep pushing and it's going to blow up in his face.

[MJZiggy]

Now there was a good bit of unbiased reporting. :roll: In his article where he dug Favre's comments from a May 6 press conference, where is the reference the the (at least) 4 quotes that I've read from his former QB coach (yes, I refer to M3--he's said it a number of times) that Favre was the most coachable QB he's ever worked with? Where are the quotes from his teammates? Did he ask, oh, say Henderson? Henderson had an opinion about it on ESPN and that wasn't even the good part I missed! Did anyone notice under notes, how an unnamed source that suggested that part of the reason Harris was out might have been a contract thing has turned into Harris who skipped minicamp to show he was unhappy with his contract? When did this go from an unnamed source to verified fact? Lovely piece of journalism, I'm telling you.

[Rastak]

Now there was a good bit of unbiased reporting. :roll: In his article where he dug Favre's comments from a May 6 press conference, where is the reference the the (at least) 4 quotes that I've read from his former QB coach (yes, I refer to M3--he's said it a number of times) that Favre was the most coachable QB he's ever worked with? Where are the quotes from his teammates? Did he ask, oh, say Henderson? Henderson had an opinion about it on ESPN and that wasn't even the good part I missed! Did anyone notice under notes, how an unnamed source that suggested that part of the reason Harris was out might have been a contract thing has turned into Harris who skipped minicamp to show he was unhappy with his contract? When did this go from an unnamed source to verified fact? Lovely piece of journalism, I'm telling you.


Ziggy, didn't MM say Al Harris was excused because of personal commitments on the earlier workout? If what Wilde says is true and Harris said he won't attend any OTA's then wouldn't that excuse that MM gave seem like Bull? Does he have personal commitments on EVERY day of the OTA's or is he trying to make a statement as Wilde suggested?

[MadtownPacker]

Let's wait until Harris actually holds out or him or his agent says he wants to. Right now it is all talk.

[Rastak]

Let's wait until Harris actually holds out or him or his agent says he wants to. Right now it is all talk.


I doubt he holds out and these are volunatary workouts...sorta...LOL. Actually the defense isn't changing much so it would be worse for an offensive starter to miss them all than a defensive player. I think it's very possible that Wilde's source is correct and he's pissed. I myself don't see why he should be, they came through with a nice contract for him. In my opinion they took care of him.

[MadtownPacker]

I doubt he holds out and these are volunatary workouts...sorta...LOL. Actually the defense isn't changing much so it would be worse for an offensive starter to miss them all than a defensive player. I think it's very possible that Wilde's source is correct and he's pissed. I myself don't see why he should be, they came through with a nice contract for him. In my opinion they took care of him.He can be pissed, that is kinda understandable. he can say he wants more money. That is his right. As long as he doesnt hold out I dont care. We all want more money and seeing new guy get a fat payday might set anyone off. When he holds out, then I have a problem. Of course Im just some fan but I am a Harrisment fan too. Too bad Carroll is gonna take his spot this season. :mrgreen:

[Rastak]

I doubt he holds out and these are volunatary workouts...sorta...LOL. Actually the defense isn't changing much so it would be worse for an offensive starter to miss them all than a defensive player. I think it's very possible that Wilde's source is correct and he's pissed. I myself don't see why he should be, they came through with a nice contract for him. In my opinion they took care of him.He can be pissed, that is kinda understandable. he can say he wants more money. That is his right. As long as he doesnt hold out I dont care. We all want more money and seeing new guy get a fat payday might set anyone off. When he holds out, then I have a problem. Of course Im just some fan but I am a Harrisment fan too. Too bad Carroll is gonna take his spot this season. :mrgreen:

Hey what's up Mad, we agree! Back to the original point of the thread I think McCarthy was out of line because Wilde was probably accurate in his story in the end. Anyway, all will be forgotten when training camp starts I'm sure.

[Deputy Nutz]

"But one thing Favre might need to do during the Packers' organized team activity workouts - which begin today with the first of 14 practices, the remainder of which are sprinkled throughout June - is adjust his attitude."


Wilde is an asshole, asking Favre to change his attitude? I have never witnessed a player give more effort and heart to this sport or the Green Bay Packers. Wilde probably got blown off by Favre for Chris Havel, so Wilde has to blast "Lord" Favre every chance he gets. It is called a vandeta, Favre has given ammunition to the local and national media for the first time in his career with his 29 INTs and his indecision about coming back in 2006. Sherman opened up the door in 2005 with giving Favre a pass from both mini camps. True colors are shinning threw for this 2003 Sports Writer of the Year.

[MJZiggy]

Here's a question...If Coach Mac and Wilde go to war, who wins? I say M3 easily.

[Rastak]

Here's a question...If Coach Mac and Wilde go to war, who wins? I say M3 easily.


No, I don't think so. It's very very hard to win a war with the press. They print the stories each day. MM has a press conference once in a while.
It would be counter productive to fight with the press. Denny Green alienated every single reporter in the Twin Cities and they absolutely drilled him every time he made the smallest mistake. And things went downhill from there LOL....

[pbmax]

Gureski, Wilde isn't referencing his own belief that Favre is not listening, he is paraphrasing Jaworski. Believe Jaworski or not, it isn't simpy an assertion of Wilde's own making.

But we all missed the point of the article relevant to the topic originally. After missing a voluntary camp, Harris is not going to show up for the OTAs. Does anyone remember if Harris missed these last year?

This sounds more and more that Al is looking to get paid.

Rather than channel the state of minds of Harris, Wilde and McCarthy, we can agree that Harris and his agent want more money.

And we now can agree (unless he has a habit of skipping these) that Harris is staying away.

And given Harris and agent comments previously, it sounds like he'll be in camp when its mandatory. This is like a flare gun, a heads up, that they'd like something done.

[pbmax]

So what will McCarthy say when the first question at the next press conference is: "Coach, do you have any information on why Al Harris won't be attending OTAs?".

[MJZiggy]

Here's a question...If Coach Mac and Wilde go to war, who wins? I say M3 easily.


No, I don't think so. It's very very hard to win a war with the press. They print the stories each day. MM has a press conference once in a while.
It would be counter productive to fight with the press. Denny Green alienated every single reporter in the Twin Cities and they absolutely drilled him every time he made the smallest mistake. And things went downhill from there LOL....

I'm not talking about "the press" or "every single reporter." I'm talking Mac v. Wilde. A few "no comments" when other reporters got big stories and great quotes and it makes reporting on the Packers rather difficult. It will be made even more difficult if the rest of the coaching staff and other members of the organization become suddenly quiet. Continually ripping the coach with nothing verifiable is only going to kill his credibility. He can bash M3 every day and people will start to think he's just being vindictive. The rest of the press will not join Wilde's hatefest if M3 is giving them what they need.

[Rastak]

Here's a question...If Coach Mac and Wilde go to war, who wins? I say M3 easily.


No, I don't think so. It's very very hard to win a war with the press. They print the stories each day. MM has a press conference once in a while.
It would be counter productive to fight with the press. Denny Green alienated every single reporter in the Twin Cities and they absolutely drilled him every time he made the smallest mistake. And things went downhill from there LOL....

I'm not talking about "the press" or "every single reporter." I'm talking Mac v. Wilde. A few "no comments" when other reporters got big stories and great quotes and it makes reporting on the Packers rather difficult. It will be made even more difficult if the rest of the coaching staff and other members of the organization become suddenly quiet. Continually ripping the coach with nothing verifiable is only going to kill his credibility. He can bash M3 every day and people will start to think he's just being vindictive. The rest of the press will not join Wilde's hatefest if M3 is giving them what they need.


Well, as they are waiting for these press conferences to start, you canbe sure these guys chat. They may not all be friends but I bet some of them are and IF it's percieved that MM threw your friend under the bus you MIGHT be more inclined to retaliate, even subconciously. That's my only point.

[MJZiggy]

They're friends, yet competitors. How would you feel if someone threw Lovie Smith under the bus? If him dissing my buddy gives me an advantage professionally, I don't know that I'm not very secretly kind of giddy about it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

[gureski]

Gureski, Wilde isn't referencing his own belief that Favre is not listening, he is paraphrasing Jaworski. Believe Jaworski or not, it isn't simpy an assertion of Wilde's own making.

You must not listen to Wilde speak on a daily basis as part of ESPN radio. If you did, you'd know that Wild's personal belief is EXACTLY that Favre is uncoachable and wont listen. It's why he wrote the piece. He truly calls him 'Lord Favre' on an almost daily basis. He writes this huge article on how Favre is uncoachable and quotes Jaworski but I ask....why now? Why not a month ago? Where is the story? Where are other experts and players and people around Favre going on record or even off-record to support this assertion? And let's not forget that Henderson vigorously defended Favre against Jaworski so where is that little piece in this story? It's a completely one-sided story written because Wilde isn't fond of Favre and is pissed at McCarthy and therefore he wants to put McCarthy on the spot and cause friction. That's all this was and it's petty.

On the Harris thing.....you've got all sources on record saying there is nothing there. Regardless if it's there or not, until you get some proof that there is a story here you should NOT keep reporting it as truth. A month from now, if this is really happening, then Wilde will have his proof and he can write his story. For now, it's been denied and he should lay off writing that it's true until he has proof. That's how journalism works. Wilde seems to want to continue to report something is true that he (a) can't prove and (b) is being denied by the parties involved. That's wrong. He wrote the initial report and that was fine. Now he needs to back off until he gets proof. To keep asserting that he's right when there is no proof is not what a reporter should do. He broke the rumor, they denied it, and now he needs to sit and wait til there is proof to pursue the story more.

[MJZiggy]

And Sham, you say that the typical sports fan can't weigh the evidence properly and will be mislead. You don't over-react to these stories - why do you assume other readers are too dumb to keep a proper perspective?

Wow, you sure do know how to exagerate HH. I never said anything close to that. Why do you insist on making things up (some would call it prevarication) just because your argument is weak?

One of the real problems with unsubstantiated stories that tend toward the sensational, is that others, including national media pick up on them, often without the background information. Soon the story becomes, "Wilde reports Harris boycotting due to contract dissatisfaction." That summary is just as "truthful" as Wilde's story, but you can see where it goes.

That never happens! :roll:
http://www.wkowtv.com/index.php/sports/story/p/pkid/24034
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1775&line=68014&spln=1
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/05/31/truth.rumors.nfl/

Does anyone have the quote from Harris (or anyone besides Jason Wilde) saying why he's missing OTA?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm talking Mac v. Wilde. A few "no comments" when other reporters got big stories and great quotes and it makes reporting on the Packers rather difficult. It will be made even more difficult if the rest of the coaching staff and other members of the organization become suddenly quiet.

This isn't highschool. "Mean Girls", where the kid who crosses the most popular girl gets ostracized. The NFL requires coaches and players to deal with the media.

[MJZiggy]

Not equally.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When the papers first reported that an unnamed source said that the Packers were close to signing Charles Woodson, I didn't see a flurry of complaints about shoddy journalism.

Single, unnamed source stories are common. Usually they prove correct and you forget about them.

People cried "foul!" over Jason Wilde's use of an unnamed source because the story itself was unpleasant to hear, it went against the Packers.

[MJZiggy]

I thought they cried foul because everyone involved denied the whole thing and then the head coach jumped on him about it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harris didn't deny it. And the denial of Mike McCarthy means nothing. Well, except to the Packer Cult, who took this as some sort of proof.

[MJZiggy]

Harris' agent denied it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

yes, and reason given for Harris's absence? You have to read between the lines. Harris's agent is protecting his client's public reputation.

I have no problem with people who beleive that HArris is satisfied with his contract, and just staying away for ..... well, for some reason.

I believe Wilde's source, because I trust Wilde, it doesn't sound like a story somebody would just make up, and it seems reasonable to me that HArris wants his contract improved.

[MJZiggy]

Who reported that Driver was unhappy with his contract? (I'm not trying to make a point by asking, I just don't remember)

[gureski]

When the papers first reported that an unnamed source said that the Packers were close to signing Charles Woodson, I didn't see a flurry of complaints about shoddy journalism.

Single, unnamed source stories are common. Usually they prove correct and you forget about them.

People cried "foul!" over Jason Wilde's use of an unnamed source because the story itself was unpleasant to hear, it went against the Packers.

The problem isn't that Wilde reported something. It's that he's continuing to assert that his story is true despite the individuals involved in the story going on-record as stating the story was false. That's the problem here. Wilde is continuing to assert that he is correct without any proof other then an un-named source. He reported what he heard and he needs to leave it at that for now. At some point he will be proven right or wrong and that's the next time he should address the story. Wilde isn't willing to put the story away right now. He seems obsessed with being 'right' instead of reporting the news. It's a rumor that has been denied by the parties involved. Until someone is on record as saying Wilde is correct OR when Harris starts holding out....that's when Wilde can write more. For now, he should shut up about it. He's got nothing but a rumor that's been denied.

[gureski]

Who reported that Driver was unhappy with his contract? (I'm not trying to make a point by asking, I just don't remember)

Wilde is one of the guys who reported that Driver was unhappy and was demanding a new deal. Wilde continues, on radio, to report it as if it were fact that Driver walked in and demanded a new deal. Driver denied it. Thompson denied it occurred that way yet Wilde wont relent. He continues to speak as if it all happened behind the scenes and that Driver DID demand a new deal.

It's the same as the Harris thing. Wilde continues to portray the situation as what he says it is despite people involved in the situations denying his reports. Again, nothing wrong with the initial report. It's the part where he continues to report his rumors as fact that gets him in the end.

[RashanGary]

Chris Havel's opinion on the story. According to HH, only Reporters and Harlan himelf are capable of objectivity. I figured we could get a reporters humble and objective opinion.




TonyGerlach, Phoenix, AZ: Hi Chris. How unhappy is Al Harris with his current contract status? Do you think he is under-paid? Is there any chance that he will hold out, ala Mike McKenzie?

ch: I am sure that Al Harris would like to be given a new, more lucrative deal. The problem is he signed that deal just two years ago. Harris' situation, in my humble opinion, was grossly overstated in order to make headlines. The story I am refering to - which ran in another state paper - quoted an unnamed source. The Press-Gazette's philosophy in regard to unnamed sources is only if it is required to break a major story where a source can't be revealed, but the news is true and accurate, and the readers need to read it here first. We don't use unnamed sources merely to write a speculative story regarding a player's unhappy contract, or to rip a punter, let's say, because the unnamed source is a scout for an (wink, wink) NFC East team. Or some other baloney. It's too easy to go that route, which is why we don't, and won't. When you read something - a breaking news story - that is written by Pete Dougherty or Rob Demovsky, rest assured there's a whole lot of truth behind it. Sure, it may cost us a sensational headline "Harris Unhappy With Contract" from time to time, but in the long run what does a sensational headline serve? In short, no, I don't believe Harris is going to be the next Mike McKenzie. I'm sure a lot of us in our professions are unhappy with our current pay, or would like a more lucrative deal, but we don't whine about it in the press under an "unnamed source" tag. Harris, if he plays well, will get paid. He knows it, too. And I think his disatisfaction was overstated and irresponsible.

[Scott Campbell]

Here's a question...If Coach Mac and Wilde go to war, who wins? I say M3 easily.


No, I don't think so. It's very very hard to win a war with the press. They print the stories each day. MM has a press conference once in a while.
It would be counter productive to fight with the press. Denny Green alienated every single reporter in the Twin Cities and they absolutely drilled him every time he made the smallest mistake. And things went downhill from there LOL....

Rick Majerus did the same thing in SLC, even though he was a darling of the national media.

[Scott Campbell]

Maybe Havel is in the "cult" too.

[Rastak]

Maybe Havel is in the "cult" too.

Florio certainly accused him of it....LOL....

[pbmax]

The problem isn't that Wilde reported something. It's that he's continuing to assert that his story is true despite the individuals involved in the story going on-record as stating the story was false. That's the problem here. Wilde is continuing to assert that he is correct without any proof other then an un-named source.
Gureski, you do not know if Wilde had no other sources on the piece, you only know what was in the paper. Other confirmation could have come on background.

As for the denials, Harris' agent was not quoted but paraphrased by ROB REISCHEL saying it wasn't his contract that kept him away. If he confirmed it positively without squirming, where is the quote?

All of the agents other quotes were we aren't Mike McKenzie OR we want more money later this year. That's confirmation of half the story right there.

Harris' resposne to the contract question was "no comment".

As for coach, "Packers coach Mike McCarthy said Harris was attending to a personal matter and was not aware of a contract issue with Harris being the reason he didn't show for camp, which is voluntary and ends today.

"No. Not that I'm aware of," McCarthy said. "I have not spoken to Al Harris or anything about his contract; it's a personal matter that he's committed to this weekend."

McCarthy added that he did expect Harris to attend the Packers' minicamp in June, otherwise known as organized team activities, which span from May 31 to June 21. They also are voluntary."

Half of his denial has proven inaccurate.

I'd say Wilde is on the side of fact so far, and the denials don't look strong or believable.

I am not vouching for his personal behavior on the radio with Homer, but so far he has looked prescient compared to McCarthy.

And that gives him the priviedge of repeating what has proven to be correct.

[gureski]

"Gureski, you do not know if Wilde had no other sources on the piece, you only know what was in the paper. Other confirmation could have come on background.

As for the denials, Harris' agent was not quoted but paraphrased by ROB REISCHEL saying it wasn't his contract that kept him away. If he confirmed it positively without squirming, where is the quote? "

end quote

Just last night, as I was driving home, I heard Wilde say that Al Harris would not confirm the reports that he is unhappy with his deal and may hold out. Wilde's exact words were that 'I don't think Al is ready to go on record yet'. That clearly means that the source himself is NOT on record as saying this is true.

Wilde is the one who said 'source' and not sources in his story.

I'm just relaying what I'm hearing Wilde say. He's running with a story and he's got nothing to back it up.

[woodbuck27]

So what will McCarthy say when the first question at the next press conference is: "Coach, do you have any information on why Al Harris won't be attending OTAs?".

M3 will say the same thing that TT would say.

That the OTA's are voluntary and for one reason or other, known to only Al Harris (and his agent) that Al Harris has not chosen to attend the 'voluntary' OTA's. That he (M3) and the Coaching Straff are very pleased overall with the atendance, and that for those absent 'of course' , that they are getting totally prepared to attend and achieve team goals in TC.

By not having certain more seasoned Vet's at the OTA's the Coaching staff can more fully concentrate on grooming the new prospects and seeing how they adjust to the PRO/Packer game.

M3 should and will most likely take the PR approach. You can't very well fight with the Press and also your players and finish up smiling.

All that garbage would place a strain on me personally as I would certainly hope that these key / new players who are expected to lead / produce would be more like the ways and determinations of the Mark Tauscher's, Aaron Kampman's and (new guy - also) Marquand Manuel.

I would say that given the results of last year, that overall I am disappointed that the likes of Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett and cedrtainly as he's on Offence ,Rod Gardner are absent, for any reason, other than it being serious matter related to health or family. No yawning by the poolside or I'm on vacation excuses would wash with me.

I would want to see all three of these fellas at the OTA's soon, or I send out a REAL message despite the fact that they are 'just voluntary'. It sucks to me to see OUR designated #1 and #2 CB's absent from the OTA's and I don't give a hoot about how talented Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett may feel they are, in their own minds.They both have a new DEFENCE to learn by practising in, not via any play book.

Wonderlik scores anyone, on these great minds?

[woodbuck27]

By the way. After reading through this thread I would have to say that I would rate it as one of the very BEST debate threads I have ever gleened on any Forum.

Congratulations for not in the end, setting out contracts on one another as I could feel the heat all the way up here in Montreal, Canada.

I have my feelings on this matter concerning Jason Wilde and 'his reporting style' and M3's responce, relegated to the latest Packer rumor and Al Harris and more money or not, and will only advise, that this will all just wash away on the Al Harris side.

The M3 and Jason Wilde thing? I'm not so sure. Personally I don't trust Jason Wilde's reporting as exactly straight up either, based on my observations and analysis of his work in the past.

Also as a Packer fan I admit bias.

I find against M3 for staging the showdown as he did, as to do so behind closed doors may have been better; but to reiterate what I wrote before. Maybe this has been brewing. Maybe Jason Wilde has the hard head here. Overall I find for M3 and let's cut him a break, as he'll face alot more heat than this as a Packer Rookie HC.

I have the idea that this Jason Wilde / M3 thing, has been brewing for some time now.

I also believe, that of course Al Harris wants more money, but he won't (based on who he is) and can't afford to miss TC, and he will be there. Will he 'in fact' get more money soon or later?

That's up to TT.

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck,

Did you go to literacy class? It's like you disappeared and then came back with a whole new writing style that is comprehendable.

I don't even believe this is Woodbuck. It can't be.

Hey, I'm not one to talk. I never cared much for grammar or spelling and I'm pretty much average at best in that area. After I read some of your old writings, I used to sit and scratch my head thinking; What the fuck did he just say.....You seem to be just a normal poster now. Maybe it's becuase your splitting every thought into it's own separate pararaph and using comma's and other common forms of punctuation.

Not rippin ya...ol'woodbuck....Proper writing is much about organization and effort. I think there are other more important qualities so don't take offense. I'm borderline retarded in certain situations so I don't think being weak in one area means much....

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree that woody's writing style seems better now than before.

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck,

" Did you go to literacy class? It's like you disappeared and then came back with a whole new writing style that is comprehendable.

I don't even believe this is Woodbuck. It can't be. " Nick Collins


Well, what can I say but - it is me ' the same eben actual woodbuck27 '.

I have a solid education and actually received Special recommendation for papers I wrote while in University. I have worked most of my life in highly technical jobs including Supervision and been an Educator as well.

I am guilty of having different styles of writing . I can write formally but often write as I would speak to another, and use a more informal style that is understandable where I come from,LOL, the Maritime Provinces in Canada.

If I turned on 'the localisms' you'd be really scratching your head Nick.

I'm really just a darn Maritmer Nick and I like to think, a really decent and down to earth straight up person. I seldom shoot off on any matter without at least using whatever grey matter I still possess.

[woodbuck27]

I agree that woody's writing style seems better now than before.

Harvey:

Writing style can have alot to do with emotions/frustrations moods etc.

I can't stand people who express bigoted ideas and ignorance based in a lack of experience. Being a Canadian and especially hailing from the very laid back and friendly confines of 'the Maritimes' where respect gets you everything. It has sometimes been really challenging dealing with some, lets say, who are 'mannerly challenged' on forums.

Debate is normal, but to express oneself with callousnous and insult, and to include personal attacks on people we don't really know, is plain stupid.

We all grow and learn better from one another 'in respect of one another'. So we write better also, I expect.

I don't use language but TRUST this. I can handle myself very well otherwise, when necessary.

[RashanGary]

I dont' know ya very well Woody.....I am not in any way slighting you.

Being good at grammer and writing is about as important to me as holding a fork properly or posting in the right forum.

I personally enjoy math, science and my engineering related courses. I acctually want to go to class and the challenge of problem solving excites me.

Writing properly could be considered a challenge, but it's like shaving every day or filing your bills. It's just plain boring. Writing is for the organized. It's a good thing I have a wife becuase I think I'd probably have 0 credit and no job right now if I had to manage all aspects of my life. Good god I hate organization.

Speaking of which, I hate composing proper documents. Could you possible find a more useless, boring way to spend your time.

Woodbuck...Me and you can join the lazy writers club. I'm sure you could write well just like I'm sure I could write well if I gave a shit. Like you said, it's more about attitude and personality than it is about intelligence. If your organized and detail oriented you'll be a proper writer. If you enjoy artfully expressing yourself, it's a real hoot I'm sure. As for me, I think it's a complete waste of fucking time. Don't take insult woody. Lazy is not stupid. As far as the art of writing goes, that has nothing to do with grammar. I don't think you're suffering any more than the rest of us in that department. My point of writing is to get my point accross. Everything esle is just feels like a big boring ass waste of my time.