Jeremiah was a bullfrog, was a good friend of mine

[Harlan Huckleby]

Recordings of sermons from Obama's pastor Jeremiah Wright have hit the airwaves. It's Louis Farrakhan stuff: racist, anti-American. The argument that Obama does not adopt the guy's views are not going to fly. Barack has followed this pastor for 20 years, chose this man as mentor for his kids.

I've long thought that Obama's membership in a segregated church was a problem. Then the comment from Michele Obama that she is proud of America for first time. This is going to be a deep hole to get out of.

I listened to a couple of black intellectuals on wisconsin public radio yesterday. Unbelievable. http://clipcast.wpr.org:8080/ramgen/wpr/dun/dun080313d.rm The hatred towards the Clintons is red hot. They claim that white people vote for Clinton out of racism. (The 90% black support for Obama is evidently simply a virtue.) The lady refered to Hillary's support as Lilly White (guess hispanics don't count). But isn't this just a result of black solidarity behind Obama?

[Joemailman]

Not sure if ties to Wright will cost Obama the nomination or not. I doubt it. If the race is between Obama and McCain, McCain has his own problems with supporters. John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go. I don't think either Obama or McCain would want that, but I don't know if they can control third-party groups.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Not sure if ties to Wright will cost Obama the nomination or not. I doubt it.

Agreed, Obama is still on glide path to nomination.

The best outcome for Dems is Obama-Clinton.

BTW, I don't personally have a huge problem with Jeremiah Wright or Michele Obama's comments. I understand where they are coming from. They don't really hate America, they are pissed off at past & lingering injustice. I have a love/hate relationship with Black America - and it really is a separate place mentally.

[Harlan Huckleby]

here's a meet-and-greet with reverand wright:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWvxTUy47Fk&feature=related


He actual is not radical, in the sense that a lot of black people think this way.

I don't think Obama is radical, he is independent minded.

[Freak Out]

McCain has his own problems with supporters. John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go.

Hagee has been in the news.....just not the news most watch Joe. Moyers has done a couple pieces I've seen as well as some independent media outlets but you probably wont see anything mentioned of his beliefs on Israel, Iran or the catholic church until the general election. The thing that scares me about guys like him and his church members isn't so much their belief that we need to attack Iran to trigger the final battle it's that they have influence in Washington and know how to work within the halls of power.

[swede]

My favorite part of the vids of Wright are where he says that Bill Clinton "did America like he did Monica Lewinsky. He roooode her dihrtay!"

No transcript can adequately portray how Wright swung his hips as he pretended to be Big Bill looking down at the broad backside of America as he doggified her good. Ohh baby!

What an odd thing for a minister to be really good at doing.

My UCC minister never did that sort of thing. The white UCC ministers just preach that everything that everyone else does is okay on the off-chance that God is big on abortion, homosexuality, adultery, and, in this case, hatin' on America.

[The Leaper]

John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go.

Comparing the link between Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama is ridiculous.

Obama has a choice where he goes to church...and he CHOOSES to go to Wright's church, which in essence is an endorsement of Wright's viewpoints to some extent.

Hagee is merely an official of a huge organization that threw support behind McCain...as it ALWAYS does for the GOP candidate. He has no personal ties to McCain whatsoever.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go.

Comparing the link between Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama is ridiculous.

Obama has a choice where he goes to church...and he CHOOSES to go to Wright's church, which in essence is an endorsement of Wright's viewpoints to some extent.

Hagee is merely an official of a huge organization that threw support behind McCain...as it ALWAYS does for the GOP candidate. He has no personal ties to McCain whatsoever.

I have attended many churches/synagogues/mosques...and at each one found myself at odds with certain things. Attending a place of worship doesn't mean you agree with everything the man of the cloth says.

Nice try. McCain actively courted Hagee for a FULL YEAR. John McCain was at the CUFI conference, courting Hagee's support -- and telling him what he wanted to hear. He met with him early in 07 as well. And, he was "honored" to receive his endorsement.

McCain:
I think we could have Armageddon.

Hagee:

"the United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ."

Hagee:
Newsflash!

This morning I had an extended breakfast with Senator John McCain of Arizona. Our topic of discussion was Israel and his candidacy for the Presidency of the United States of America.

Senator McCain's comments concerning Israel are on target! He gets it! While I do not want to put the specifics of our conversation in this update I am glad to report to our leadership and supporters that John McCain is solidly pro-Israel.

We discussed his positions on other matters that I will share with you when I speak with you in person. This newsflash goes to the ends of the earth and I don't want to read it in the media tomorrow.

This is the person you are defending?

Sought the endorsement of this loon. Just as he did when he launched an initiative called Catholics for McCain with a host of prominent Catholic leaders, "Catholics for McCain will play an active role in educating and communicating with fellow Catholics about why John McCain is the best candidate to successfully promote Catholic values in the upcoming election.”

And, he "straight talked" about not agreeing with everything Hagee said. What exactly doesn't he agree with.

But, i'm sure it won't matter to you or the other conservative voters. Guess Karl Rove was wrong when he identified the Catholic vote in 2004 as the most vital to the GOP's electoral successes.

Guess he won't want the jewish vote, the muslim vote or those affected by Katrina.

Just the usual flip flop from McCain..first Bob Roberts U, now this. Sell your soul for the election.

[Joemailman]

John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go.

Comparing the link between Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama is ridiculous.

Obama has a choice where he goes to church...and he CHOOSES to go to Wright's church, which in essence is an endorsement of Wright's viewpoints to some extent.

Hagee is merely an official of a huge organization that threw support behind McCain...as it ALWAYS does for the GOP candidate. He has no personal ties to McCain whatsoever.

So religious bigots like Hagee always throw their support behind the GOP candidate? If you say so.

McCain said he was honored to receive the endorsement of Hagee, which is something he would not have said in 2000 when I voted for him in the Wisconsin primary. McCain is no longer a maverick but is now just another politician willing to say anything or embrace anyone who can get him elected. Too bad.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

John Hagee's bigoted comments toward Catholics haven't got the airtime that Wright has, but that will change if this is the way the campaign is going to go.

Comparing the link between Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama is ridiculous.

Obama has a choice where he goes to church...and he CHOOSES to go to Wright's church, which in essence is an endorsement of Wright's viewpoints to some extent.

Hagee is merely an official of a huge organization that threw support behind McCain...as it ALWAYS does for the GOP candidate. He has no personal ties to McCain whatsoever.

So religious bigots like Hagee always throw their support behind the GOP candidate? If you say so.

McCain said he was honored to receive the endorsement of Hagee, which is something he would not have said in 2000 when I voted for him in the Wisconsin primary. McCain is no longer a maverick but is now just another politician willing to say anything or embrace anyone who can get him elected. Too bad.

He has always been the same. You got suckered in 2000.

Next leaper will tell us that McCain's adultery is ok as well.

[Jimx29]

knock me over with a feather:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1


But he (obama) defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.

"Cherry picking" my ass :evil:

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

knock me over with a feather:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1


But he (obama) defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.

"Cherry picking" my ass :evil:

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

Did you actually read the whole story?

I found myself in agreement with quite a bit what he said.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama Denounces His Pastor’s Statements
By JODI KANTOR
Published: March 15, 2008

In the handful of years Senator Barack Obama has spent in the national spotlight, his stance toward his pastor has gone from glowing praise to growing distance to — as of Friday — strong criticism.

On Friday, Mr. Obama called a grab bag of statements by his longtime minister, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., “inflammatory and appalling.”

“I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue,” he wrote in a campaign statement that was his strongest in a series of public disavowals of his pastor’s views over the past year.

Earlier in the week, several television stations played clips in which Mr. Wright, of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, referred to the United States as the “U.S. of K.K.K. A.” and said the Sept. 11 attacks were a result of corrupt American foreign policy.

On Friday, Senator John McCain’s campaign forwarded to reporters an article in The Wall Street Journal in which Mr. Wright was quoted as saying, “Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run,” and accusing the United States of importing drugs, exporting guns and training murderers.

Later in the day, Rush Limbaugh dwelled on Mr. Wright in his radio program, calling him “a race-baiter and a hatemonger.”

In the statement he released a few hours later, Mr. Obama, known for his uplifting messages about national unity, professed a certain innocence about his pastor’s most incendiary messages.

“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” he said.

The eight-paragraph statement, first posted on the Web site The Huffington Post, did not recount Mr. Wright’s claims but addressed concerns about whether his beliefs reflected Mr. Obama’s. “He has never been my political adviser,” Mr. Obama wrote. “He’s been my pastor.”

Mr. Obama has belonged to Trinity for two decades. He was married by Mr. Wright, and his two daughters were baptized by him.

Mr. Obama credits a sermon of Mr. Wright’s, “The Audacity of Hope,” with drawing him to Christianity, and he used those words as the title of his second book.

But the evening before he announced his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, Mr. Obama started to distance himself from Mr. Wright, canceling an invocation he had asked the minister to give at his presidential announcement.

Mr. Wright, 66, who last month fulfilled longstanding plans to retire, is a beloved figure in African-American Christian circles and a frequent guest in pulpits around the country. Since he arrived at Trinity in 1972, he has built a 6,000-member congregation through his blunt, charismatic preaching, which melds detailed scriptural analysis, black power, Afrocentrism and an emphasis on social justice; Mr. Obama praised the last quality in Friday’s statement.

His most powerful influence, said several ministers and scholars who have followed his career, is black liberation theology, which interprets the Bible as a guide to combating oppression of African-Americans.

He attracts audiences because of, not in spite of, his outspoken critiques of racism and inequality, said Dwight Hopkins, a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, in an interview last year.

But Mr. Wright’s blistering statements about American racism can shock white audiences.

“If you’re black, it’s hard to say what you truly think and not upset white people,” said James Cone, a professor at Union Theological Seminary and the father of black liberation theology, who has known Mr. Wright since he was a seminary student.

Mr. Wright is no longer on Mr. Obama’s African American Religious Leadership Committee, though Mr. Obama’s aides would not elaborate on the circumstance of his departure, and Mr. Wright did not answer a message left on his cellphone requesting an interview.

The minister’s defenders say the statements that have been playing this week on television are outliers, taken out of context, and that he is not antiwhite. The United Church of Christ, the denomination of the Chicago church, is overwhelmingly white. And Mr. Wright is an equal opportunity critic, often delivering scorching lectures about black society, telling audiences to improve their education and work ethic.

“I can remember Jeremiah saying in probably half his sermons: Everyone who’s your color ain’t your kind,” Richard Sewell, a church member, said in an interview last year.

One of the statements that have been most replayed this week comes from the sermon Mr. Wright delivered following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards,” he said. “America’s chickens are coming home to roost.”

Asked in an interview last March to explain the sermon, Mr. Wright said he had been questioning the country’s desire for vengeance against the perpetrators, counseling his congregants to look inward instead.

Immediately after the attacks, the country’s response was “to pay back and kill,” he said. But before it got “holier than thou,” he said, the nation should have considered how its own policies had led to the events of that day. (Last year, Mr. Obama said, “The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification,” and added that he and his wife were at home on the day of the sermon, tending to their new baby.)

In the interview last spring, Mr. Wright expressed frustration at the breach in relationship with Mr. Obama, saying the candidate had already privately said that he might need to distance himself from his pastor. But perhaps the two could repair things, said Mr. Wright, pointing out that Mr. Obama’s opponent, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, had faced worse.

“At least there are no semen stains on any dresses,” Mr. Wright said, one of several digs he has taken at the Clintons.

“That kind of frankness scares people in the campaign,” he added.

[Harlan Huckleby]

____________________
Free Elliot!
The other guys did it too.
And besides it wasn't really bad.
And he's really, really sorry and he's been punished enough.

Right on, bro! Welcome aboard.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

"Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country controled by rich white people." (the Romans. those are Italians, so they're Europeans, he explains.)

"Hillary never had a cab wiz past her. I am sick of Negroes who just don't get it!"

This guy is a stitch. There is a lot of truth in what he says. But why is he taking on Hillary from the pulpit? Jesus loves Hillary too.

[LL2]

Republican presidential candidates always court the support of people like Haggee, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and others, because they know if they don't their chances of getting elected are slim. They count of the religious vote because it's a big chunk of votes for them.

[BallHawk]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad. I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break. I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

People are entitled to know what a candidate believes, what they are like.
Obama is a member of a church that is HIGHLY politicized, of course this is relevant.
The pastor of the church is not just a peripheral person in Obama's life. He is a mentor in some sense. A friend for 20 years. An educating force that Obama chose for his children. This man is expressing political views from the pulpit, of course those views are relevant. Although Obama is not accountable for every opinion that Wright expresses, the tenor of his remarks reflect on Obama. Obama chose to stay with him.


I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break.

Combing through sermons!!?? This is like the "cherry picking through 20 years" misdirection. There are a trove of remarks in circulation, and they appear to all be from the last year or two. The church distributes DVDs of his sermons. It's not just a handful of isolated gaffs, it's an ideology.

My God, Ballhawk, if you think you can dismiss this as just a political dirty trick, you are out of your mind.


I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.

It's going to matter to some people. And this background makes it impossible to dismiss Michelle Obama's earlier comments. I always thought Michelle meant exactly what she said, not at all surprising. Highly educated blacks often have some bitterness, they know too much about injustices.

Don't let this stuff get you too discouraged. It's some true information about Obama that HAD to come out, sooner or later. It's going to hurt him some, especially in the general election. Most will move past it.

Obama is going to become president, maybe this time, maybe the next election.

[BallHawk]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

People are entitled to know what a candidate believes, what they are like.
Obama is a member of a church that is HIGHLY politicized, of course this is relevant.
The pastor of the church is not just a peripheral person in Obama's life. He is a mentor in some sense. A friend for 20 years. An educating force that Obama chose for his children. This man is expressing political views from the pulpit, of course those views are relevant. Although Obama is not accountable for every opinion that Wright expresses, the tenor of his remarks reflect on Obama. Obama chose to stay with him.

As I stated previously, I don't think what the candidate believes matters, as long as it doesn't affect foreign policy. If we had an Islamic president then I think that is an issue that would be worthy of discussion. The bottomline here is Obama is a member of a church that barely has one million people. A church that has no influence outside of the U.S. His religion would not be a driving force in his decision-making. So then what is the issue? Let me make this clear, I strongly disagree with everything Wright says and I disprove of his relation with Farrakhan. However, that is an issue that has no place in this campaign. This campaign isn't about those two, it is about three other people, Obama, McCain and Clinton.


I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break.

Combing through sermons!!?? This is like the "cherry picking through 20 years" misdirection. There are a trove of remarks in circulation, and they appear to all be from the last year or two. The church distributes DVDs of his sermons. It's not just a handful of isolated gaffs, it's an ideology. My God, Ballhawk, if you think you can dismiss this as just a political dirty trick, you are out of your mind.

Combing wasn't a good word choice. I understand why this happening, I do not approve of it, but this is the way politics is. As stated previously, I disagree with Wright. I have not seen Obama endorse Wright's opinions on Israel or on race issues. And while Obama's senate record is thin, it is without a doubt Pro-Israel. That cannot be denied. So I think it would be better if we let Obama speak for what Obama believes, not what those around him believe.


I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.


It's going to matter to some people. And this background makes it impossible to dismiss Michelle Obama's earlier comments. I always thought Michelle meant exactly what she said, not at all surprising. Highly educated blacks often have some bitterness, they know too much about injustices.

Don't let this stuff get you too discouraged. It's some true information about Obama that HAD to come out, sooner or later. It's going to hurt him some, especially in the general election. Most will move past it.

Obama is going to become president, maybe this time, maybe the next election.

Michelle's comment was blown way out of proportion. The media likes to spin it like Michelle is a narcissistic, anti-American woman who is only proud of her country now because her husband is close to a nomination. Yes, highly educated blacks are bitter and to be honest you can't blame them. They are aware of what has and what is happening. However, to suggest that Michelle Obama was not proud of her country before this is foolish. She grew up in a lower income family and she worked her way into Princeton. How many countries offer you the opportunity to do that? Michelle would make a fantastic First Lady which is a lot more than you can say for Cindy McCain.

And, on your last point, if Obama is not elected President this year he will never become President. His hype is now, his time is now. If he cannot seize the election with such strong African-American, Youth, Independent, and some moderate conservative support, than he will never be President. Enthusiasm lasts for short amounts of time. I'm surprised he still has the hype going now. I honestly thought his support would dwindle between Iowa and Super Tuesday. I'm happy to say I was wrong. Obama is a new face in '08. In 2012 or beyond he will be just another politician. That guy who lost to Bush 2.0. It's do or die this year for Obama.

[Jimx29]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad. Maybe it's because we've lived with a theocracy for the past two terms instead of a democracy. If you recall, God told dubya to go to war :roll:

[Harlan Huckleby]

if Obama is not elected President this year he will never become President. His hype is now, his time is now.

NO WAY.

If he should lose, he'll return to Senate, or become governor of Illinois. He'll only grow in stature. Any misgivings the public might have about him at this time can be assuaged with time & familiarity.

Ronald Reagan ran for president in 1968, lost. Tried again in 1976, didn't get nomination. In 1980, he was the candidate the Dems prayed the Republicans would nominate because he was unelectable - damn if the fucker didn't win.

You can't predict. Tricky Dicky lost in 1960. Exited politics forever with checkers speech. Won in 68.

Bill Clinton lost governor race. came back and won the next time.

Hell, McCain lost nomination in 2000. Now look at him at age 72.

You never know what will happen.

My only objection to Obama is that I can't tell who he is, I don't know his judgement, to me he is simply an appealing pesonality. He has been a presidential candidate for most of the short time he has been on the national scene.

I will easily vote for him in the future if I am impressed with his political judgement in the next 4 years. Regardless of whether he wins the likes of me over or not, it's hard for me to believe that somebody that politically talented won't make it to the top.

[Iron Mike]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad. Maybe it's because we've lived with a theocracy for the past two terms instead of a democracy. If you recall, God told dubya to go to war :roll:

Ermmm........we've kind of ALWAYS lived with a theocracy:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, October 11, 1798

[Harlan Huckleby]

ya, it's true, politicians in the past were more direct in appealing to Christianity. Presidents used to say prayers in their speeches. I have heard the argument that we were founded as a Christian nation, historically true enough, I just question the wisdom of going back there.

The country was also founded in slavery. And woman weren't allowed to vote, let alone run for president. (They got one out of two things right - bring back slavery! Hillary 08!)
I'm glad we are becoming an even more diverse nation, even at the price of putting up with all those damn mexicans. :rs:

But seriously folks. A secular state rocks. I like having jews and mormons and budhists and muslims on the USA team. And atheists are cool - very.

[swede]

ya, it's true, politicians in the past were more direct in appealing to Christianity. Presidents used to say prayers in their speeches. I have heard the argument that we were founded as a Christian nation, historically true enough, I just question the wisdom of going back there.

The country was also founded in slavery. And woman weren't allowed to vote, let alone run for president. (They got one out of two things right - bring back slavery! Hillary 08!)
I'm glad we are becoming an even more diverse nation, even at the price of putting up with all those damn mexicans. :rs:

But seriously folks. A secular state rocks. I like having jews and mormons and budhists and muslims on the USA team. And atheists are cool - very.

Excellent sermon! You'd be a good United Church of Christ pastor. Seriously. You could go to many UCC churches on Easter Sunday and hear spoken from the pulpit what you just said. The UCC has become the church for ministers who'd like to be identified as Christian but who are uncomfortable with the epistemological necessity of accepting a spiritual submission to the will of God. Instead, this denomination, like the Episcopalian Church, has now pronounced the will of God as entirely inscrutable on moral issues. On political issues, however, God's will is clear; conservative politics are an abomination before the holy throne of God.

It was no surprise to me to find out that Obama's church was UCC!

Mutter some obligatory stuff about Jesus and then get on with the hate speech Brutha!

Preach against sin and people leave your church lookin' for a better deal. Preach against the immorality of the Bush administration and the money rolls in hallelujah!

[Harlan Huckleby]

We were talking about the role of religion in politics, and Swede hijacked the thread to rant about politics in religion.

Or were we talking about politics in religion, and Numb hijacked with the theocracy stuff?

All I know for sure is I'm not inviting Swede to my Unitarian meeting. The Unitarians aren't THAT open-minded.

Swede, you bring your religion crap in here again and I swear I'm gonna RIDE YOU DIRTY!

[Harlan Huckleby]

What's the difference between a priest and acne?
Acne waits until you're 13 before it comes on your face.

[Joemailman]

Trying to get this thread sent to the Garbage Can? :roll:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Trying to get this thread sent to the Garbage Can? :roll:

I'm afraid freedom of offensiveness is protected under article 4, section 3 of the bylaws. "You can write anything you want, just no Pics that will get Partial or Retail's bosses upset."

Sorry for my insensitivity to Catholics. If it's any consolation, I hate all kinds of people:

A priest and a rabbi are walking down the road and they see a little boy. The priest leans toward the rabbi and whispers "You wanna screw him?"

The rabbi responds, "Out of what?"

[Joemailman]

Obama converts to Judaism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/obama-converts-to-judaism_b_91687.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

:lol:

Well, it's a step in the right direction.

But Swede & I are withholding support until he goes Lutheran. Olaf Obama.

[swede]

Harlan. It feels good to be in your arms again.

We're like Mary Matalin and James Carville.

[Joemailman]

No pictures please.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Harlan. It feels good to be in your arms again.

We're like Mary Matalin and James Carville.
I knew you were a log cabin republican!

[Scott Campbell]

Harlan. It feels good to be in your arms again.


Pfft. And Mad said he couldn't get laid.

[Freak Out]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

any love is good love

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama gave a great speech, impossible to do better.

I don't think it will change anybody's mind one way or another about The Bullfrog, but it adds to Obama's prestige.

[BallHawk]

50/50 chance that the Jerimiah Wright story was leaked to the press by the Obama Campaign, for numerous reasons.

[Joemailman]

Obama decided today that if he has to throw his pastor under the bus in order for him to be President, then he won't be President. Some Americans will be disappointed in that. So be it. His speech, if heard/read in its entirety, showed a depth the others can't match.

[The Leaper]

Obama decided today that if he has to throw his pastor under the bus in order for him to be President, then he won't be President. Some Americans will be disappointed in that. So be it. His speech, if heard/read in its entirety, showed a depth the others can't match.

Huh?

I don't see the depth. Obama HAD to sit in those pews to earn the respect of blacks. He wasn't a REAL black man...at least in the terms most blacks who sit in those pews see the world by. He was raised by a white mother and her parents in Hawaii...hardly a black man's world. Embracing the social justice message was a way Obama could show blacks that he was one of them...a soldier crusading against injustice.

As such, turning his back on this pastor would be like turning his back on blacks...and that would be political suicide for Obama.

As such, I don't see why this is such a show of depth. Like most of Obama's moves to this point in his life, the only depth lies in what it means to his political career and aspirations. Obama was hoping like mad that this never came up...he knew full well how controversial this would look to mainstream America, and I'm sure he was working on today's speech for some time.

I agree strongly with this guy's take in the WSJ. Some may see it as putting down blacks, but I don't. We all have our own "bargains" that we employ in life to mask our inferiorities and weaknesses. This is Obama's...yours or mine might be different, but they are still there.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120579535818243439.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama decided today that if he has to throw his pastor under the bus in order for him to be President, then he won't be President. Some Americans will be disappointed in that. So be it.

It was also a strategically wise tack. His other options were worse. Throwing Wright under the bus would have ended his candidacy.

I don't question Obama's character, but don't see the speech as brave.


His speech, if heard/read in its entirety, showed a depth the others can't match.

It was serious & thoughtful. He's a great speaker. I don't know how his depth compares to Hillary or McCain.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As such, turning his back on this pastor would be like turning his back on blacks...and that would be political suicide for Obama.

This is correct. Offensive to many white people too. (I'm a white people, I can speak for them.)

I can't imagine how Obama could have handled the situation any better than he did. He made a sincere and impressive case.

This issue of why he stayed in the church so long is the biggy that remains.

[The Leaper]

50/50 chance that the Jerimiah Wright story was leaked to the press by the Obama Campaign, for numerous reasons.

Possible. They knew this was going to come out at some point. Now...after all the primaries are mostly done and we have a 6 week lag until the last few wrap up the process...is as good as any for this issue to come to light and impart the least actual impact to Obama's campaign.

[BallHawk]

It was also a strategically wise tack. His other options were worse. Throwing Wright under the bus would have ended his candidacy.

Ended his candidacy is going a bit too far. It would of made him look like a typical dirty politician and he would of lost some of the black vote, but I wouldn't say it would even be close to ending his candidacy.

[The Leaper]

This issue of why he stayed in the church so long is the biggy that remains.

I think it is even more of a problem in light of the comments that his wife has given. Without her comments, I think it is easier for Obama to get away from this.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was also a strategically wise tack. His other options were worse. Throwing Wright under the bus would have ended his candidacy.

Ended his candidacy is going a bit too far. It would of made him look like a typical dirty politician and he would of lost some of the black vote, but I wouldn't say it would even be close to ending his candidacy.

OK, well he would be in Hillary's position, waiting for the train wreck and hoping the conductor gets killed.

Driving that train, High on cocaine
Barack Obama you better watch you speed
Trouble Ahead, Trouble behind
And you know that notion, just crossed your mind!

[Joemailman]

As such, turning his back on this pastor would be like turning his back on blacks...and that would be political suicide for Obama.

This is correct. Offensive to many white people too. (I'm a white people, I can speak for them.)

I can't imagine how Obama could have handled the situation any better than he did. He made a sincere and impressive case.

This issue of why he stayed in the church so long is the biggy that remains.

I think he addressed the issue of why he has stayed in Wright's church for so long:
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

I guess people will accept or reject his reasoning. I accept it because I think we tend to be too judgmental.

[The Leaper]

I guess people will accept or reject his reasoning. I accept it because I think we tend to be too judgmental.

I'm glad his church did all those things.

Plenty of other churches do as well, without the cursing and gyrations and hate speech. If my church honored a bigot and racist like Louis F (since I'm white, let's go with Davy D) I think I would find a new church.

Claiming that he was completely ignorant of these outbursts and only knew the church for its "good stuff" is a poor excuse IMO. Either it tells me that he is incompetant and doesn't have a clue what is going on around him, or it tells me that he knew full well what was going on and didn't have the balls to speak out against it until his hand was caught in the cookie jar.

[swede]

You accept it because otherwise you'd have to vote for Hillary.

[Joemailman]

I don't dread having to vote for Hillary...or McCain, who I voted for in the primary in 2000.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think he addressed the issue of why he has stayed in Wright's church for so long:
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

I guess people will accept or reject his reasoning. I accept it because I think we tend to be too judgmental.

So the postives outweigh the negatives.

This argument might work with most Americans, in fact most Americans probably already gave Obama the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure this argument will sway many people who were horrified by Wright but were otherwise considering voting for Obama.

There's nothing more Obama can do about it. Just have to wait and see next fall to see what price he pays. Some people are going to question Obama's judgement for staying in the church.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't dread having to vote for Hillary...or McCain, who I voted for in the primary in 2000.

I consider all three candidates outstanding. Or to put it in Lake Wobagon terms, they are all above average.

I have become so turned-off by the left wing of the Democratic Party. They have been so righteous, nasty, dishonest ..... where's that list of insults? Afraid I am taking it out on Obama, to an extent. "If it feels right, vote for spite."

Obama was positioning for a presidential run from the moment he started his first national job. He was only in his position for two years before he formally announced. That's no way to get to know a politician, he has no record. Beyond experience, I can't vote for somebody so unknown and untested.

[The Leaper]

I have become so turned-off by the left wing of the Democratic Party.

The entrenched politicians on both sides are often quite despicable.

To me both sides fight for some things we need...and neither side fights for everything we need.

Yet, we are forced to either accept one or the other at face value.

Puke.

[swede]

Claiming that he was completely ignorant of these outbursts and only knew the church for its "good stuff" is a poor excuse IMO. Either it tells me that he is incompetant and doesn't have a clue what is going on around him, or it tells me that he knew full well what was going on and didn't have the balls to speak out against it until his hand was caught in the cookie jar.

Obama, like Jeremiah Wright himself, is very intelligent and calculating. Membership in that church gives him entree into Chicago's powerful black caucus. Obama, in my opinion, doesn't share all of Wright's views (I doubt Wright believes everything he preaches) but he understands their utility in sheparding the black vote his way.

It isn't Obama and it wasn't Wright who shocked me; it was the thousands in the congregation smiling, nodding, and laughing at his hateful words against white people and America. I will tell you this. Following the release of these tapes I have to wonder about the relationships that I have with African-Americans in my community. I have felt fortunate to have the opportunity to enjoy constructive and respectful relationships with black students, their parents, and other members of the community. But now i wonder if to them I'm just a whitey.

So much for bringing America together Barack.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Claiming that he was completely ignorant of these outbursts and only knew the church for its "good stuff" is a poor excuse IMO. Either it tells me that he is incompetant and doesn't have a clue what is going on around him, or it tells me that he knew full well what was going on and didn't have the balls to speak out against it until his hand was caught in the cookie jar.

Obama, like Jeremiah Wright himself, is very intelligent and calculating. Membership in that church gives him entree into Chicago's powerful black caucus. Obama, in my opinion, doesn't share all of Wright's views (I doubt Wright believes everything he preaches) but he understands their utility in sheparding the black vote his way.

It isn't Obama and it wasn't Wright who shocked me; it was the thousands in the congregation smiling, nodding, and laughing at his hateful words against white people and America. I will tell you this. Following the release of these tapes I have to wonder about the relationships that I have with African-Americans in my community. I have felt fortunate to have the opportunity to enjoy constructive and respectful relationships with black students, their parents, and other members of the community. But now i wonder if to them I'm just a whitey.

So much for bringing America together Barack.

Yes, we hate your honky ass.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Claiming that he was completely ignorant of these outbursts and only knew the church for its "good stuff" is a poor excuse IMO. Either it tells me that he is incompetant and doesn't have a clue what is going on around him, or it tells me that he knew full well what was going on and didn't have the balls to speak out against it until his hand was caught in the cookie jar.

Obama, like Jeremiah Wright himself, is very intelligent and calculating. Membership in that church gives him entree into Chicago's powerful black caucus. Obama, in my opinion, doesn't share all of Wright's views (I doubt Wright believes everything he preaches) but he understands their utility in sheparding the black vote his way.

It isn't Obama and it wasn't Wright who shocked me; it was the thousands in the congregation smiling, nodding, and laughing at his hateful words against white people and America. I will tell you this. Following the release of these tapes I have to wonder about the relationships that I have with African-Americans in my community. I have felt fortunate to have the opportunity to enjoy constructive and respectful relationships with black students, their parents, and other members of the community. But now i wonder if to them I'm just a whitey.

So much for bringing America together Barack.

Yes, we hate your honky ass.

Obviously, whites want black friends so as not to appear racist. However, if we dig deeper what we notice about white people is not if they have black friends but in fact, how many black friends they have. White people like numbers. They like to count things like stars in the sky and the death toll at Mt. Everest and the number of times they’ve seen Tori Amos and/or Phish in concert. Counting the number of black friends is then clearly a divine imperative. The number of black friends white people possess also illustrates their comfort with black culture. Here’s a handy guide to the number system:

1—The white novice. This black friend is the gateway to helping white people understand gang signs and Vietnamese beauty supply stores. This black friend is probably the only black friend for many white people and when they all hang out (because white people hang out) they bring their “mutual” black friend with them.

2—The white black club-goer. Two black friends serve as bodyguards when white people go to black clubs to see how exactly one “pops, drops and locks” it.

3 -4—The white BET-er. See Justin Timberlake/ Robin Thicke/ Jon B for more information. For old school reference, see Michael McDonald.

5 and up—Impossible.

[BallHawk]

Did you write that number system thing yourself, Ty?

If so, Bravo. :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did you write that number system thing yourself, Ty?

If so, Bravo. :lol:

No, i stole it.

Check this site out..hilarious.

www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

[Harlan Huckleby]

National Public Radio and Wisconsin Public Radio spent the past week pretending that the Jeremiah Wright controversy did not exist, as if it were some scurrillous gossip on the internet. AFAIK, The Bullfrog's name was never even mentioned this past week.

They had extensive coverage today on Obama's glorious response to the situation that did not exist. :lol: :lol: :lol: It was a day of praise and congratulations.

They might as well call it Obama Public Radio. :lol: Obama clearly started out as the underdog, but Hillary and now McCain are at a decided disadantage with media coverage.

Man, my short time with the republicans is already changing my perspective.

[Harlan Huckleby]

3 -4—The white BET-er. See Justin Timberlake/ Robin Thicke/ Jon B for more information. For old school reference, see Michael McDonald.

Do the Beastie Boys have street cred?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama, like Jeremiah Wright himself, is very intelligent and calculating. Membership in that church gives him entree into Chicago's powerful black caucus. Obama, in my opinion, doesn't share all of Wright's views

Every politician joins a church. Obama needed this more than most. A light-skinned Harvard boy looking to organize the peeps.

I believe Obama is a very good person. I don't mind that he is ambitious, I expect he did a lot of good for people along his way up the ladder.

I just don't like the phony posturing. "I didn't know that Reverand WRight was like this." "Michele meant she is proud now of our unity and new style politics." Gag me with a spoon.



It isn't Obama and it wasn't Wright who shocked me; it was the thousands in the congregation smiling, nodding, and laughing at his hateful words against white people and America.

In Barack's speech today, he dismissed The Bullfrog as a product of an older generation. Some truth to that, but you also have to recognize all the young people in the crowd cheering him on. :idea:

How do we move forward if the greivances of the past are constantly re-enforced in the segregated church?

White people who attend that church say they are treated with great warmth and affection. I believe it. I don't think Obama is stuck in the past, I think the things he says about unity and reconciliation are sincere. Yet there is all that negativity and backwardness in that church. So many contradictions.

[Joemailman]

You call it a segregated church, and then mention that the white people who attend there are treated with warmth and affection? What makes it segregated? Do they have separate drinking fountains? Do the white folks have to sit in the back, or give up their seat to the blacks?

[Harlan Huckleby]

You call it a segregated church, and then mention that the white people who attend there are treated with warmth and affection? What makes it segregated? Do they have separate drinking fountains? Do the white folks have to sit in the back, or give up their seat to the blacks?

If you look at the mission statement of the church, it is a church about and for Africans.

It's a black church. And it's not like a Greek Orthodox Church where there are a significant number of non-Greeks in attendance. I did not mean to suggest it is mean-spirited place, that's why I repeated what I've heard of how white people are treated there.

The reason why this is an issue is that Barack has presented himself as a white-black bridger. There's a contradiction, an all-black church is looking to the past.

[The Leaper]

Every politician joins a church. Obama needed this more than most. A light-skinned Harvard boy looking to organize the peeps.

I believe Obama is a very good person. I don't mind that he is ambitious, I expect he did a lot of good for people along his way up the ladder.

I just don't like the phony posturing. "I didn't know that Reverand WRight was like this." "Michele meant she is proud now of our unity and new style politics." Gag me with a spoon.

I agree with you. I do believe that Obama does not share Wright's viewpoint in most of these cases. Obama has a different life experience than Wright...and I think he has an appreciation for some things that Wright clearly does not.

My issue is that Obama used Wright's church for his own political purposes while looking the other way when these inflammatory and racist comments and thoughts were not just spoken at the pulpit...but when they were taught to HIS CHILDREN and SOLD TO THE PUBLIC. That is completely unacceptable to me for a presidential candidate in terms of judgment and leadership.

What SCARED me in his speech today? Obama threw his OWN GRANDMOTHER under the bus. He basically put his own grandmother's private thoughts and feelings on par with a spiritual leader's public rantings...he reduced his grandmother to the level of a man who less than 10% of the country views in any kind of positive light.

Obama is a careful, calculating politician who has little substance and even less experience on the world stage. He scares the hell out of me...and I think he would make a horrible president at this time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama threw his OWN GRANDMOTHER under the bus.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I heard what he had to say, I would take issue with your characterization.

[swede]

Obama threw his OWN GRANDMOTHER under the bus.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I heard what he had to say, I would take issue with your characterization.

That's today's marching orders from the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

Every time we mention Obama today we have to say that he threw his own grandmother under the bus.

Word is that tomorrow the VRWC has ordered us to step it back and only say, "We realize it's not like he threw his own grandmother under the bus. We stand behind Obama's right to believe that the woman that raised him in his mother's absence was a racist."

[Harlan Huckleby]

Michael Gerson
March 19, 2008

Barack Obama has run a campaign based on a simple premise: that words of unity and hope matter to America. Now he has been forced by his charismatic, angry pastor to argue that words of hatred and division don't really matter as much as we thought.

Obama's speech in Philadelphia yesterday made this argument as well as it could be made. He condemned the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's views in strong language -- and embraced Wright as a wayward member of the family. He made Wright and his congregation a symbol of both the nobility and "shocking ignorance" of the African American experience -- and presented himself as a leader who transcends that conflicted legacy. The speech recognized the historical reasons for black anger -- and argued that the best response to those grievances is the adoption of Obama's own social and economic agenda.

It was one of the finest political performances under pressure since John F. Kennedy at the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960. It also fell short in significant ways.

The problem with Obama's argument is that Wright is not a symbol of the strengths and weaknesses of African Americans. He is a political extremist, holding views that are shocking to many Americans who wonder how any presidential candidate could be so closely associated with an adviser who refers to the "U.S. of KKK-A" and urges God to "damn" our country.

Obama's excellent and important speech on race in America did little to address his strange tolerance for the anti-Americanism of his spiritual mentor.

Take an issue that Obama did not specifically confront yesterday. In a 2003 sermon, Wright claimed, "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

This accusation does not make Wright, as Obama would have it, an "occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy." It makes Wright a dangerous man. He has casually accused America of one of the most monstrous crimes in history, perpetrated by a conspiracy of medical Mengeles. If Wright believes what he said, he should urge the overthrow of the U.S. government, which he views as guilty of unspeakable evil. If I believed Wright were correct, I would join him in that cause.

But Wright's accusation is batty, reflecting a sputtering, incoherent hatred for America. And his pastoral teaching may put lives at risk because the virus that causes AIDS spreads more readily in an atmosphere of denial, quack science and conspiracy theories.

Obama's speech implied that these toxic views are somehow parallel to the stereotyping of black men by Obama's grandmother, which Obama said made him "cringe" -- both are the foibles of family. But while Grandma may have had some issues to work through, Wright is accusing the American government of trying to kill every member of a race. There is a difference.

Yet didn't George Bush and other Republican politicians accept the support of Jerry Falwell, who spouted hate of his own? Yes, but they didn't financially support his ministry and sit directly under his teaching for decades.

The better analogy is this: What if a Republican presidential candidate spent years in the pew of a theonomist church -- a fanatical fragment of Protestantism that teaches the modern political validity of ancient Hebrew law? What if the church's pastor attacked the U.S. government as illegitimate and accepted the stoning of homosexuals and recalcitrant children as appropriate legal penalties (which some theonomists see as biblical requirements)? Surely we would conclude, at the very least, that the candidate attending this church lacked judgment and that his donations were subsidizing hatred. And we would be right.

In Philadelphia, Obama attempted to explain Wright's anger as typical of the civil rights generation, with its "memories of humiliation and doubt and fear." But Wright has the opposite problem: He ignored the message of Martin Luther King Jr. and introduced a new generation to the politics of hatred.

King drew a different lesson from the oppression he experienced: "I've seen too much hate to want to hate myself; hate is too great a burden to bear. I've seen it on the faces of too many sheriffs of the South. . . . Hate distorts the personality. . . . The man who hates can't think straight; the man who hates can't reason right; the man who hates can't see right; the man who hates can't walk right."

Barack Obama is not a man who hates -- but he chose to walk with a man who does.

[The Leaper]

I heard what he had to say, I would take issue with your characterization.

How so?

The guy basically said "Wright is no biggie because I've heard Grams speak about being scared of a blackie."

The bottom line is that the two situations aren't comparable. Speaking PRIVATELY about your thoughts and feelings is one thing...speaking PUBLICALLY as a SPIRITUAL LEADER, which carries a very high responsibility in the Bible that Obama supposedly champions, is quite another.

Being scared or unsure of cultures/people you don't know is one thing...claiming that America is the cause of the AIDS virus and that our government is to blame for the drug culture, not individuals dealing and doing drugs, is quite another.

Somehow, I don't see his grandmother thrusting her pelvis around talking about "riding dirty" in church or praising a bigot and racist like Louis F or a terrorist like Khadafi either...but maybe that's just me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was watching Tavis Smiley interview Henry Lewis Gates, black Harvard professor. Also listened to NPR reporter who surveyed black ministers in Chicago about Jeremiah Wright.

The strong feedback is that Jeremiah Wright's views are mainstream for black churches. His severe opinions aren't necessarily adopted by all, but are common expressions in black churches. The professor and Tavis both say what is shocking is the disconnect between whites and blacks.

Wait a second, if Jeremiah Wright is just par for the course, how is it possible that Obama is shocked, shocked, shocked to discover his views? :?:

Speaking of :shock:, Clinton's lead in polls in Pennsylvania has gone from mid teens to +26 points.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama's odyssey on race - Once viewed skeptically by blacks; now hit by whites (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/20/obamas_odyssey_on_race/?page=1)

This is interesting article. I believe that Obama is a racial healer.

But he's selectively honest, like all politicians.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Speech: A Brilliant Fraud
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, March 21, 2008

The beauty of a speech is that you don't just give the answers, you provide your own questions. "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." So said Barack Obama, in his Philadelphia speech about his pastor, friend, mentor and spiritual adviser of 20 years, Jeremiah Wright.

An interesting, if belated, admission. But the more important question is: which"controversial" remarks?

Wright's assertion from the pulpit that the U.S. government invented HIV "as a means of genocide against people of color"? Wright's claim that America was morally responsible for Sept. 11 -- "chickens coming home to roost" -- because of, among other crimes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (Obama says he missed church that day. Had he never heard about it?) What about the charge that the U.S. government (of Franklin Roosevelt, mind you) knew about Pearl Harbor, but lied about it? Or that the government gives drugs to black people, presumably to enslave and imprison them?

Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: "There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?"

But that is not the question. The question is why didn't he leave that church? Why didn't he leave -- why doesn't he leave even today -- a pastor who thundered not once but three times from the pulpit (on a DVD the church proudly sells) "God damn America"? Obama's 5,000-word speech, fawned over as a great meditation on race, is little more than an elegantly crafted, brilliantly sophistic justification of that scandalous dereliction.

His defense rests on two central propositions: (a) moral equivalence and (b) white guilt.

(a) Moral equivalence. Sure, says Obama, there's Wright, but at the other "end of the spectrum" there's Geraldine Ferraro, opponents of affirmative action and his own white grandmother, "who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe." But did she shout them in a crowded theater to incite, enrage and poison others?

"I can no more disown [Wright] than I can my white grandmother." What exactly was Grandma's offense? Jesse Jackson himself once admitted to the fear he feels from the footsteps of black men on the street. And Harry Truman was known to use epithets for blacks and Jews in private, yet is revered for desegregating the armed forces and recognizing the first Jewish state since Jesus's time. He never spread racial hatred. Nor did Grandma.

Yet Obama compares her to Wright. Does he not see the moral difference between the occasional private expression of the prejudices of one's time and the use of a public stage to spread racial lies and race hatred?

(b) White guilt. Obama's purpose in the speech was to put Wright's outrages in context. By context, Obama means history. And by history, he means the history of white racism. Obama says, "We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country," and then he proceeds to do precisely that. What lies at the end of his recital of the long train of white racial assaults from slavery to employment discrimination? Jeremiah Wright, of course.

This contextual analysis of Wright's venom, this extenuation of black hate speech as a product of white racism, is not new. It's the Jesse Jackson politics of racial grievance, expressed in Ivy League diction and Harvard Law nuance. That's why the speech made so many liberal commentators swoon: It bathed them in racial guilt while flattering their intellectual pretensions. An unbeatable combination.

But Obama was supposed to be new. He flatters himself as a man of the future transcending the anger of the past as represented by his beloved pastor. Obama then waxes rhapsodic about the hope brought by the new consciousness of the young people in his campaign. Then answer this, Senator: If Wright is a man of the past, why would you expose your children to his vitriolic divisiveness? This is a man who curses America and who proclaimed moral satisfaction in the deaths of 3,000 innocents at a time when their bodies were still being sought at Ground Zero. It is not just the older congregants who stand and cheer and roar in wild approval of Wright's rants, but young people as well. Why did you give $22,500 just two years ago to a church run by a man of the past who infects the younger generation with precisely the racial attitudes and animus you say you have come unto us to transcend?

[The Leaper]

Speaking of :shock:, Clinton's lead in polls in Pennsylvania has gone from mid teens to +26 points.

Yep. Everyone who thinks Obama is a lock to earn the nomination are kidding themselves.

Clinton probably won't be able to close the nominee gap due to the stupid way they are parcelled out almost evenly unless you win by a major landslide.

However, Clinton DOES stand a good chance of potentially evening out or even forging ahead in the POPULAR VOTE. That is what could potentially crush the party.

What do the Dems do if Obama has more pledged delegates (say by 50 or 60) not counting the superdelegates...but Hillary has more votes in her favor by number? Currently, Obama leads both...so he could legitimately claim victory and the SDs would have a strong case to not override the voters. But if the delegate lead and popular vote lead are split, that strong case is no longer available for Obama.

Hillary is likely to score huge wins in PA and IN...Obama has to have a signficant voter edge in NC, or the popular vote lead could swing to Hillary even if the nominee lead can't.

[The Leaper]

Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: "There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?"

But that is not the question. The question is why didn't he leave that church?

Those seem to be the exact same question to me.

My questions are:

If this kind of hatred toward America is the norm for black churches, how is it redeeming or helpful to the cause of blacks so that it should be accepted and tolerated as Obama did?

If Obama chose to tolerate this kind of bigotry in his church and failed to have any understanding of his pastor's viewpoints, how can we trust him when given the responsibility of understanding and interacting with world leaders, some of which are equally driven by hate and bigotry?

I know why Obama didn't leave the church...he was a guy raised by a white family who went to an Ivy League school and had ZERO CONNECTION to the black community if he had not kept his butt on those pews.

[Harlan Huckleby]

However, Clinton DOES stand a good chance of potentially evening out or even forging ahead in the POPULAR VOTE. That is what could potentially crush the party.

Obama closed-off the popular vote threat by blocking revotes in MI & FL.
The Democratic Party appears to be trying to rally behind Obama. An idea for a June SuperDelegate primary was floated, an obvious attempt to coronate Obama.

Democrats are between a rock and hard place. Obama actively killed revote in MI, passively avoided revote in FL. His nomination is going to carry a heavy stench. FL, OH, MI and PA are going to be tough sells for him in the fall.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't agree with this guy's comment that "it's been a great week for Hillary Clinton", but I think he makes valid point about Obama's problem with voters next fall.


Adres Martinez
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/stumped/?hpid=opinionsbox1

I am not sure when you tuned into our long-running American soap opera. But if you joined us this election cycle, you will remember that, "one-drop rule" aside, early on there was a lot of hand-wringing about whether Barack Obama was sufficiently "black" to win over loyal Democratic African-American voters fond of the Clintons. There was a feeling initially that the Illinois senator was too multicultural, too much of an immigrant, too Harvard Law Review, to count on overwhelming black support.

The good news for Obama is that African-Americans have definitely come to see him as the black candidate, and he is winning such a large share of the African-American vote that you'd think Hillary Clinton is a conservative Republican. The bad news for Obama is that he is coming to be seen as the black candidate by everyone else too.

To some degree, this was inevitable. Obama's life history -- and his mindset -- transcend simplistic black-white notions of race relations, as he reminded voters this week with his speech on race. But presidential races don't occur in a vacuum, and his candidacy was bound to be hijacked and affected by classic racial politics, from South Carolina to Los Angeles. With every passing contest, his ability to be all things to all voters frays a little more, and of course the recent controversy over his close ties to preacher Jeremiah Wright has come close to accomplishing what Bill Clinton so clumsily tried to do before the South Carolina primary: For the first time, Obama risks being identified with that strain of grievance-nursing, embittered African-American political tradition that many white blue-collar Democratic voters find so off-putting.

It's been a great week, in other words, for Hillary Clinton. No matter how many superlatives pundits and intellectuals deploy in describing Obama's nuanced discourse on race, it's never a good week for Obama when he is forced to define himself as a candidate who is all about race.

He was eloquent and thoughtful in talking about race relations in America, but the entire exercise still ended up feeling a bit evasive. What prompted the speech, after all, were pointed questions about why Obama would befriend a pastor who preached a message of bitter division and anti-Americanism. Obama didn't squarely address that issue. It was the equivalent of responding to a missed date with your girlfriend with a sweeping disquisition on the history of the relations between the sexes.

Obama's speech got a big thumbs up from the intelligentsia. (I never know if I am one of them ... but a columnist can aspire!) I suspect, however, that it will get a big thumbs down from blue-collar white voters in Pennsylvania. College students may well be reading Obama's speech years from now in U.S. history textbooks, and discussing its structure and nuance in class. But I don't think the speech will do Obama much good with voters in 2008.