A More Perfect Union

[Partial]

I think this speech is ridiculous.

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.

People hate feeling unsafe, and the culture in the ghettos is what causes this. Not a color of skin.

The other day I was at a Papa Johns pizza with blacks, whites, and mexicans working at it near Marquette. A black man walked in and yelled this is a robbery put your money on the table and take me to the safe right with his hands in his pockets.

I was scared shitless. Then, this guy laughs and go and high fives the guys behind the counter and laughs. Turns out he was an employee. An employee stared me down, pretended to have a gun, and made me put my money on the table I was at. And they wonder why people dislike them.

This was ridiculous. I would never employ anyone who thinks this is funny. Barack thinks people discriminate against these types of people for their color. WRONG. Their color is just a fairly common attribute. What he doesn't get is the person can be purple for all I care, it is their actions that I judge and hate. It is the unsafe feeling these people cause, and nasty, mean-spirited attitude these people posess that makes me judge them.

Throughout high school, there were many black kids, asian kids, etc that were very nice people. They were great people. Racism has nothing to do with anything in todays world imo!!!!!

[SkinBasket]

hahahaha!!

You happen to catch his name so I can go give him a tip?

[Partial]

No, I didn't. That is ridiculous. You laugh but you would be scared half to death if it happened to you. It's not like there isn't at least one robbery within a square quarter mile daily..

[SkinBasket]

It's not like there isn't at least one robbery within a square quarter mile daily..

That's what made the joke effective. You just got to lighten up and stop freaking out when you see a "colored" man with his finger in his pocket. You were scared because you're afraid of black people and bums and you're worried that they can sense that, like dogs can. You're one of those justified racists.

Still can't believe you took your money out for a guy with his finger in his pocket... Sure, you should have been alarmed if it was as dramatic an event as you made it out to be, but come on, a finger? If it was a white guy, I bet you wouldn't have taken your money out until you saw a gun.

If you were so offended why didn't you call the police and report this assault? Or at least call the owner. He's on TV all the time talking about the freshness of his ingredients.

[Partial]

Skin, its not a matter of race. That's the point. It could have been an everyday white guy. There are just as many white idiots around Marquette.

I am probably not doing the situation justice. It was some crazy stuff. Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

[MadScientist]

People hate feeling unsafe, and the culture in the ghettos is what causes this. Not a color of skin. ...
And they wonder why people dislike them. ..
What he doesn't get is the person can be purple for all I care, it is their actions that I judge and hate. It is the unsafe feeling these people cause, and nasty, mean-spirited attitude these people possess that makes me judge them.


Of course you take a story about a couple of assholes and are apparently extending it far beyond them. A lot of this behavior stems from a disrespect of society. If you reread Barack's speech, he does to some extent address this by commenting on the mistake of thinking that society is static. Break that notion, get everyone to take ownership of a piece of society to make it better and the asshole behavior will be greatly reduced. (Not eliminated, you could reduce society to one race and there still would be assholes).

[Partial]

See, I disagree with that. I don't believe in the "community" approach because those who are selfish ruin it for everyone. The people who cause the problems are the very same people who want the handouts yet don't do anything to show they deserve them.

[Zool]

Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

And THIS is what I and others have been trying to explain to you for a while now P-money. This is the scariest moment of your life? If you are like the average person, this is going to be a blip in your life and seem like a party compared to things that will be coming in the next 10 years.

Everyone has prejudice in them. Its actually worse if you cant admit it. And if you think that there aren't tons and tons of people who dislike other people because of their skin tone, you need to get out a little more. I'm not saying its right, I'm just giving you what my life has taught me.

You have very set in stone opinions on so many subjects that you come across as arrogant and unable to even discuss topics with. Try to listen to other people sometime, not just your inner circle. There are other people in the world who know what they are talking about.

[Partial]

I don't think anyone hates anyone because of the color of their skin. They hate a group of people who participates in certain actions. Sometimes, a skin color is a common feature among those people.

That's not racism.

[Zool]

I don't think anyone hates anyone because of the color of their skin. They hate a group of people who participates in certain actions. Sometimes, a skin color is a common feature among those people.

That's not racism.

You're wrong. You'll find out later, but you are wrong.

[Partial]

I don't think anyone hates anyone because of the color of their skin. They hate a group of people who participates in certain actions. Sometimes, a skin color is a common feature among those people.

That's not racism.

You're wrong. You'll find out later, but you are wrong.

How is that racism?

[Zool]

You will meet racist people in your life P. Its just bound to happen. At least I've met plenty. Maybe I've met my share and your share so I'm jaded. I dont think thats the case though.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Black Guy Asks Nation For Change
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Black-Guy-R.article.jpg

March 19, 2008

CHICAGO—According to witnesses, a loud black man approached a crowd of some 4,000 strangers in downtown Chicago Tuesday and made repeated demands for change.

"The time for change is now," said the black guy, yelling at everyone within earshot for 20 straight minutes, practically begging America for change. "The need for change is stronger and more urgent than ever before. And only you—the people standing here today, and indeed all the people of this great nation—only you can deliver this change."

The black guy is oddly comfortable demanding change from people he's never even met.
It is estimated that, to date, the black man has asked every single person in the United States for change.

"I've already seen this guy four times today," Chicago-area ad salesman Blake Gordon said. "Every time, it's the same exact spiel. 'I need change.' 'I want change.' Why's he so eager for all this change? What's he going to do with it, anyway?"

After his initial requests for change, the black man rambled nonstop on a variety of unrelated topics, calling for affordable health care, demanding that the government immediately begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, and proposing a $75 billion economic stimulus plan to create new jobs.

"What a wacko," Schaumburg, IL resident Patrick Morledge said. "And, of course, after telling us all about how he had the ability to magically fix everything, he went right back to asking for change. Typical."

"If he's really looking for change, he's got the wrong guy," Morledge added.

Reports indicate that the black man has been riding from city to city across the country, asking for change wherever he goes. Citizens in Austin, TX said they spotted the same guy standing on the street Friday, shouting far-fetched ideas about global warming. Cleveland residents also reported seeing him in a local park, wildly gesticulating and quoting from the Bible. And last week, patrons at the Starlight Diner in Cheyenne, WY claimed that the black man accosted them while they were eating, repeatedly requesting change.

"I saw him walk in and I knew he was headed straight for our table," said mother of three Gladys Davies. "He just stood there smiling at us for a while, and asked how our food tasted. Then he went and did the same thing at the next table over. The nerve of some people."

Those who encountered the black man Tuesday said he engaged in erratic behavior, including pointing at random people in the crowd and desperately saying he needs their help, going up to complete strangers and hugging them, and angrily claiming that he is not looking for just a little bit of change, but rather a great deal of change, and that he wants it "right now."

"I'll be honest, when that black guy said he would 'stop at nothing' to get change, it kind of scared me," local mechanic Phil Nighbert said. "Just leave me alone."

Though many were taken aback by the black man's brazen demands, some, such as Jackson, MS's Holly Moser, sympathized with him. She gave the black man credit for boldly standing up and asking every last person around him for change.

"I told him I'd give him some if I saw him later, even though I probably won't," Moser said. "Very nice man, though."

Most, however, ignored his requests.

"I'm a hardworking American who pays his taxes, and the last thing I need is some guy on the street demanding change from me," said William Overkamp, a Springfield, IL gun-shop owner.

He added, "What he really needs is a job."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/black_guy_asks_nation_for_change

[Joemailman]

Partial, weren't you predicting a few months back that Obama would be shot before he became President? If it was you, are you saying it had nothing to do with race?

[LL2]

Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

Everyone has prejudice in them.

I agree with this. No matter what race you are you have some prejudice in you. You can be the kindest and sweetest church lady (black or white) and still have some prejudice in you. It's a shame, but I think it's true.

[MadScientist]

See, I disagree with that. I don't believe in the "community" approach because those who are selfish ruin it for everyone. The people who cause the problems are the very same people who want the handouts yet don't do anything to show they deserve them.
As I said, there will always be assholes. We need to try to reduce the numbers of assholes and reduce their effects. I don't see any way to do it other than a full community effort. They have to be made to feel that their actions are unacceptable from all sides. If they don't feel part of a greater community the actions won't change.

We need to get to the point where the only common feature of assholes is that they are assholes.

[BallHawk]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

And THIS is what I and others have been trying to explain to you for a while now P-money. This is the scariest moment of your life? If you are like the average person, this is going to be a blip in your life and seem like a party compared to things that will be coming in the next 10 years.

Everyone has prejudice in them. Its actually worse if you cant admit it. And if you think that there aren't tons and tons of people who dislike other people because of their skin tone, you need to get out a little more. I'm not saying its right, I'm just giving you what my life has taught me.

You have very set in stone opinions on so many subjects that you come across as arrogant and unable to even discuss topics with. Try to listen to other people sometime, not just your inner circle. There are other people in the world who know what they are talking about.

NO THERE ARE CERTAINLY NOT.

There are just people who haven't come around to partial's world view. I pity them. He is like Jesus....cept for the compassion, giving, and love.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

Everyone has prejudice in them.

I agree with this. No matter what race you are you have some prejudice in you. You can be the kindest and sweetest church lady (black or white) and still have some prejudice in you. It's a shame, but I think it's true.

Prejudice is normal. It is expected. It is what we commonly said, "birds of a feather, flock together."

We all are prejudiced. We think our parents are the best, our religion is the best, our community is the best, our state is the best, our brand of X is the best...that is ok. Ok, if you recognize your prejudice.

Racism is something altogether different.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

Must...reconcile...logic..does..not compute.....fzzt.

(brain powers down)

[Freak Out]

No, I didn't. That is ridiculous. You laugh but you would be scared half to death if it happened to you. It's not like there isn't at least one robbery within a square quarter mile daily..

I would have taken my legal handgun and blown the fucker away.

[hoosier]

Pastor’s provocative message forged in civil rights movement
By Eric Gorski Associated Press
March 19, 2008

As shocking as they may be, the provocative sermons of Barack Obama’s pastor come out of a tradition of using the black church to challenge its members and confront what preachers view as a racist society.
Yet while the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s racially tinged messages still resonate in some black churches, evidence also suggests his style is receding into the past as civil rights-era pastors retire. Sermons in other congregations now focus less on societal divisions and more on the connection between spirituality and a materially prosperous life.
Wright’s words have come under intense scrutiny because of his long association with Obama, a member of his Chicago congregation. Video clips widely circulated in the past week show Wright, in a booming voice, suggesting that America’s actions were partly to blame for the Sept. 11 attacks and accusing the country of continuing to mistreat blacks.
Obama delivered a speech on race Tuesday that criticized Wright for expressing a “profoundly distorted view of this country.”
Wright, he said, failed to recognize the nation’s great progress in race relations, embodied by Obama’s own candidacy for president. But Obama also pointed out Wright’s good works and attempted to put his comments in context, noting that Wright and his contemporaries grew up during an era of segregation and restricted opportunity.
More than three decades ago, Wright took over a small, demoralized congregation on Chicago’s impoverished South Side and built it into the largest church in the liberal, mostly white United Church of Christ.
At the 8,000-member Trinity United Church of Christ, the slogan “Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian” has meant preaching about divestment during South Africa’s apartheid era. It has also meant fighting poverty, homelessness and AIDS at home. The religious message has been anything but watered down, with Wright dissecting Bible passages line-by-line.
The pastor’s experience is grounded not only in the civil rights movement, but also in 1960s black liberation theology, which applies the Christian Gospel to contemporary struggles against race-based oppression.
“The whole generation that Rev. Wright represents is expressing what they call a righteous anger, the anger from the failed promises of America,” said Dwight Hopkins, a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School. “The prophetic anger is toward expanding the democracy, expanding it so all citizens can walk through the door of opportunity.”
Often lost in the attention paid to Wright’s fiery sermons is the typical conclusion, Hopkins said — that despite all obstacles, you are a child of God and “can make a way out of no way.” That phrase, common in the language of the black church, was used by Obama in his 4,700-word speech Tuesday.
While Trinity United Church of Christ is more Afrocentric and slightly more political than most black churches, “even conservative black churches talk about racism in a way that many whites would find wounding or offensive,” said Gary Dorrien, a religion professor at Columbia University in New York.
“Most white Americans have a very limited capacity for dealing with black anger or acknowledging their own racial privileges,” Dorrien said. “Wherever white people are dominant, whiteness is transparent to them. In black church communities, dealing with that problem is an every-week issue.”


When I first read this article by a fairly mainstream journalist for the Denver Post, it was hard to conjure up a real life example that would illustrate the idea that "whiteness is transparent" in some situations. Then I read this:


[quote="Partial"]I think this speech is ridiculous.

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.

People hate feeling unsafe, and the culture in the ghettos is what causes this. Not a color of skin.

The other day I was at a Papa Johns pizza with blacks, whites, and mexicans working at it near Marquette. A black man walked in and yelled this is a robbery put your money on the table and take me to the safe right with his hands in his pockets.

I was scared shitless. Then, this guy laughs and go and high fives the guys behind the counter and laughs. Turns out he was an employee. An employee stared me down, pretended to have a gun, and made me put my money on the table I was at. And they wonder why people dislike them.


Problem solved.

[MadtownPacker]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.

[MJZiggy]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.
But do you hate them equally?

[oregonpackfan]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.
But do you hate them equally?

Partial,

I think Americans have come a long way in reducing racism because of the color of their skin. To say there is no more racism because of skin color is just plain denial, ignorance, or naivete. It still exists.

My nephew is a 21 year old student out here at Portland State. He was adopted by his parents when he was just an infant. He does not know his biological parents but he is of Mideastern ancestry.

It is sad in the post 9/11 era to hear him tell of the many times he has been called "Raghead" or "Sand nigger" because of his physical Mideastern biological heritage.

[LL2]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.
But do you hate them equally?

Partial,

I think Americans have come a long way in reducing racism because of the color of their skin. To say there is no more racism because of skin color is just plain denial, ignorance, or naivete. It still exists.

My nephew is a 21 year old student out here at Portland State. He was adopted by his parents when he was just an infant. He does not know his biological parents but he is of Mideastern ancestry.

It is sad in the post 9/11 era to hear him tell of the many times he has been called "Raghead" or "Sand nigger" because of his physical Mideastern biological heritage.

I can relate somewhat. My younger brother is bi-racial (black and white). He is going through a little identity struggle. He's 20 years younger than me. He has parents that are about to retire in a couple years. He's in HS and told he doesn't act black. That he's from a white yuppy family, etc. He's going through a rough time. He's been part of our family since he was 2 months old, and has never met his biological parents (although he's been saying he wants to). He's had a 10 times better life than he would've had with his crackhead parents (his biological mom went to jail after giving birht to him), but I think he's struggling to find that he belongs.

[Scott Campbell]

P,

I'd have stabbed the guy after he started laughing, and then said.......oops........thought you had a gun. Sorry bout that.

[MJZiggy]

Damn. Did I post that big long thing in the wrong thread? Awww crap.

[Partial]

No, I didn't. That is ridiculous. You laugh but you would be scared half to death if it happened to you. It's not like there isn't at least one robbery within a square quarter mile daily..

I would have taken my legal handgun and blown the fucker away.

I would have put the money on the table and when he turns his back pulled it out and held it up to him. With his back to me, he is defenseless and no one needs to hurt and no one loses their earnings. With no one having a gun but him, people are either going to get hurt or lose their earnings.

[Partial]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.
But do you hate them equally?

Partial,

I think Americans have come a long way in reducing racism because of the color of their skin. To say there is no more racism because of skin color is just plain denial, ignorance, or naivete. It still exists.

My nephew is a 21 year old student out here at Portland State. He was adopted by his parents when he was just an infant. He does not know his biological parents but he is of Mideastern ancestry.

It is sad in the post 9/11 era to hear him tell of the many times he has been called "Raghead" or "Sand nigger" because of his physical Mideastern biological heritage.

I'm talking about people my age. My generation isn't super racist I don't think.

Anna says people down here are still really racist. Especially the people she works with. I am surprised, disgusted and stand corrected.

[Partial]

Definitely one of the scarier moments of my life.

Everyone has prejudice in them.

I agree with this. No matter what race you are you have some prejudice in you. You can be the kindest and sweetest church lady (black or white) and still have some prejudice in you. It's a shame, but I think it's true.

Prejudice and racism aren't the same thing, though.

I am prejudice against a lot of people in the ghetto. Not for their skin color, but for their actions.

[Partial]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

Just because they won't elect a black person does not mean they hate black people. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

[3irty1]

To an extent I agree about racism these days. Think about how much that word has changed. Black people used to be less than human without any further information needed. The world that I've grown up in is not even close to that. Now the word racism mostly refers to the use of stereotypes.

I can't say that's true everywhere though. After spending a few months in the South I'm quite shocked at how much more intolerant people are than back in WI. I have to admit though... people here do seem to fit the stereotypes pretty darn well.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.

THat doesn't make you a racist. Just a prick.

If you are a racist you have to believe that you are better strictly by skin color.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Damn Partial, you are a big panocha.
BTW - I am racist. I hate all people.
But do you hate them equally?

Partial,

I think Americans have come a long way in reducing racism because of the color of their skin. To say there is no more racism because of skin color is just plain denial, ignorance, or naivete. It still exists.

My nephew is a 21 year old student out here at Portland State. He was adopted by his parents when he was just an infant. He does not know his biological parents but he is of Mideastern ancestry.

It is sad in the post 9/11 era to hear him tell of the many times he has been called "Raghead" or "Sand nigger" because of his physical Mideastern biological heritage.

Could you please alert us to his physical address.

We can't be to vigilant against radical islamic terrorists!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

Just because they won't elect a black person does not mean they hate black people. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

Care to tell us why they would't vote for him then?

[Partial]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

Just because they won't elect a black person does not mean they hate black people. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

Care to tell us why they would't vote for him then?

Fear of assassination, not ready to have a non-white president, more qualified candidates, etc. The list realistically could be quite long.

[BallHawk]

Partial, at this point, none of the candidates are qualified.

Not electing a candidate because of fear of assassination is crazy, though understandable.

[The Leaper]

“Most white Americans have a very limited capacity for dealing with black anger or acknowledging their own racial privileges,” Dorrien said.\

What RACIAL PRIVILEGES?

How does a white person hold any SIGNIFICANT advantage over a black person in today's society...given everything else is equal?

What holds people back today is CLASS, not race. If you don't have cash, it doesn't matter if you are white, black or purple. A poor white kid in rural West Virginia has as much chance as a poor black kid in Harlem in our society...while a rich white kid has as much chance as a rich black kid.

I'm not suggesting there is no racism or bigotry in our nation. It is impossible to eliminate those things entirely, and they should always be vigorously challenged in our society. However, the steps we've taken in the last 40 years show vast progress...and by most accounts we can only expect the progress to continue as younger generations who have only known a more diversified and color-blind society replace the older generations where prejudice and hatred still lingers among many...despite the advances of society as a whole.

Defending Wright's view in any context is deplorable IMO.

[hoosier]

“Most white Americans have a very limited capacity for dealing with black anger or acknowledging their own racial privileges,” Dorrien said.\

What RACIAL PRIVILEGES?



I'm sure there are many privileges, some of which we're all aware of and others we tend to overlook. I'll start a list if you want. But probably the most obvious is the well-documented discrepancy in average salary for white and black professionals with similar qualifications. Same goes for women in comparison with men.

[hoosier]

What holds people back today is CLASS, not race. If you don't have cash, it doesn't matter if you are white, black or purple. A poor white kid in rural West Virginia has as much chance as a poor black kid in Harlem in our society...while a rich white kid has as much chance as a rich black kid.



I agree it's about class, not just race, but not class in the sense of how much cash you have. You can be lower class and still be very cashy. Class in the sense of glass ceilings that impede social mobility and stick to you like a label. Everyone loves to recite the self-made man anecdotes about Colin Powell emerging from Harlem. But Powell is a fairly rare exception. And his example doesn't offer any insight into the typical experiences of black middle class in comparison to white middle class--the fact that our society as a whole still tends to view blacks as "blacks" while viewing whites as "just people."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Obama fails to acknowledge that very few truly hate black people today.


He is still black and based on my limited life experiences and what I now of the 50 something age group he doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of winning.

Nice one, P.

Changed our tune, have we? :cnf:

Just because they won't elect a black person does not mean they hate black people. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

Care to tell us why they would't vote for him then?

Fear of assassination, not ready to have a non-white president, more qualified candidates, etc. The list realistically could be quite long.

Really, the 50 age group is fearful he would be assinated? LOL

Why would they not be ready for a black prez...isn't that RACISM.

Keep spinning partial. It is hilarious.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

“Most white Americans have a very limited capacity for dealing with black anger or acknowledging their own racial privileges,” Dorrien said.\

What RACIAL PRIVILEGES?

How does a white person hold any SIGNIFICANT advantage over a black person in today's society...given everything else is equal?

What holds people back today is CLASS, not race. If you don't have cash, it doesn't matter if you are white, black or purple. A poor white kid in rural West Virginia has as much chance as a poor black kid in Harlem in our society...while a rich white kid has as much chance as a rich black kid.

I'm not suggesting there is no racism or bigotry in our nation. It is impossible to eliminate those things entirely, and they should always be vigorously challenged in our society. However, the steps we've taken in the last 40 years show vast progress...and by most accounts we can only expect the progress to continue as younger generations who have only known a more diversified and color-blind society replace the older generations where prejudice and hatred still lingers among many...despite the advances of society as a whole.

Defending Wright's view in any context is deplorable IMO.

The fact that you actually believe the each has the same chance proves the point.

You aren't even close to being right.

[The Leaper]

But probably the most obvious is the well-documented discrepancy in average salary for white and black professionals with similar qualifications. Same goes for women in comparison with men.

I could find significant flaws in many of these salary discrepancy studies. What do they consider "similar qualifications"...that is a rather difficult thing to quantify. We all have different educations and career backgrounds. What age groups are they studying? Older age groups clearly will still carry a large advantage for whites who were born prior to 1975, as civil rights really started making headway in our society.

Care to point out a specific one we can discuss? Again, I'm not suggesting there isn't an advantage for whites...I'm suggesting there is not a SIGNIFICANT advantage like there was 25+ years ago. The significant hurdles in our society today are a result of class, not race.

[The Leaper]

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

[3irty1]

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

[packinpatland]

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

Gotta ask........what were you doing there? I don't care how good the BBQ is, they wouldn't get a dime from me.

[Zool]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

[hoosier]

I could find significant flaws in many of these salary discrepancy studies. What do they consider "similar qualifications"...that is a rather difficult thing to quantify. We all have different educations and career backgrounds.

Not that difficult: you compare people with the same professional degrees from reputable institutions. Or people with degrees from Big Ten schools. Or whatever.


Care to point out a specific one we can discuss?
Why don't you start by pointing out a study that you find flawed?


Again, I'm not suggesting there isn't an advantage for whites...I'm suggesting there is not a SIGNIFICANT advantage like there was 25+ years ago.

I would expect that the income disparities between blacks and whites in similar positions have diminished somewhat in the last 30 years, but that the disparities in wealth between black and white families has remained the same or even grown. But whatever the case, if the disparity in salary is noticeable, I'm not sure how you define whether or not it's "significant." You know as well as anyone that salary isn't just income, it also defines you socially.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

You are right about racism..however, under the definition used in colleges..usually in order to be racist you have to have the power.

Blacks and other minorities usually don't hold the power.

Anyone who actually thinks the world is significantly better has low standards. Sure, we aren't lynching people anymore, but racism exists all day long.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You aren't even close to being right.

You are right.

We should go back to lynching people, because the progress that has been made is worthless.

That isn't what i said, and for you to go there is just ridiculous.

I lived for 10 years in the south, and if you dont' think whites have a significant advantage you are just crazy.

I could tell you about a project i worked with two black guys..who spoke and dressed as professionally as could be...and yet, were not welcome in a number of southern states. And, were told by coworkers in Miss, Ala, Mizzou not to venture into certain sections of the county.

i have personally seen instituitional racism.

I believe this 100%. A couple months ago I went to a BBQ place in South Carolina which was basically founded by the most racist man alive. The walls were coated with confederate crap and they even had a racism gift shop where you could buy everything from exposes on how Abe Lincoln was a huge asshole to varying degrees of hateful and threatening bumper stickers. It was also the only place in South Carolina I saw that had only white people working service jobs. I guess I had just assumed that it was just illegal to run a buisness like that. There are still some crazy people running around. Enough to keep a racist restaurant in buisness anyways. This wasn't in the middle of nowhere either, it was right in Columbia.

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

[hoosier]

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

I think any useful definition of racism has to include the desire for separatism, or the belief in racial purity. In that sense, I think any ethnic group, dominant or marginal, can adopt racist attitudes or tendencies.

But this example is easy to pick on--the people who go to this store and buy its stuff are dinosaurs, residues of another era. But if you ask black people, I think many will tell you that they experience a different kind of "racism" in the North, or a kind of prejudice that is in fact even more insidious than the in your face supremacism described here. In the North nobody in their right mind would come right out and proclaim themselves a racist or white supremacist like your South Carolina BBQ guy. But in the North whites still have a tendency to see blacks as "black people" while viewing other whites as "people." When we see blacks all we see is blackness; when we look at whites we see right through their whiteness.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone seen this shining example of UNITY.

The "Redneck Shop" has operated out of the building since 1996 under a lease that runs until the shop's owner dies.

Along with selling Ku Klux Klan robes and clothing with printed racial slurs, the shop also serves as a private meeting place for the Cleveland Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Its full name is the "World Famous Redneck Shop and Klan Museum," and the Confederate flag stands outside on the sidewalk at the entrance to the store, according to a recent Intelligence Report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

John Howard, 62, who runs the store, has a legal right to operate his business in that building until he dies.

Howard once served as the KKK's grand dragon for South Carolina and North Carolina. Kennedy actively lobbied to remove the Confederate flag from the Statehouse dome.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=391

http://thisisbabylon.net/2008/03/11/introducing-the-kkk-store/

If people werent' racist..the shop wouldn't do business..therefore it would go out of business. Basic capitalism. Since it is still doing business..we can only logically determine that there are plenty of racists.

I think any useful definition of racism has to include the desire for separatism, or the belief in racial purity. In that sense, I think any ethnic group, dominant or marginal, can adopt racist attitudes or tendencies.

But this example is easy to pick on--the people who go to this store and buy its stuff are dinosaurs, residues of another era. But if you ask black people, I think many will tell you that they experience a different kind of "racism" in the North, or a kind of prejudice that is in fact even more insidious than the in your face supremacism described here. In the North nobody in their right mind would come right out and proclaim themselves a racist or white supremacist like your South Carolina BBQ guy. But in the North whites still have a tendency to see blacks as "black people" while viewing other whites as "people." When we see blacks all we see is blackness; when we look at whites we see right through their whiteness.

I agree. No doubt about it.

Or as my black friends say..at least in the south we know what they think, in the north they are just quiet about it.

[Deputy Nutz]

I laugh at white people in the midwest, they don't think racism is a commonly practiced anymore, but god forbid black people start popping up in your quaint little suburbs. "There go the property values" is all you will hear.

Partial, "I am prejudice when I go into the ghetto."
Well Partial who lives in the ghetto? certainly not oxford shirt wearing white folk with pressed Dockers. Believe it or not commoners, poor black people actually live in the ghettos. Shocking. but understand poor white people really don't live in the inner city ghettos, they live in trailer parks in Jefferson County.

Racism is like the Devil, his greatest trick was fooling us that he doesn't actually exists.

[Partial]

Nutz, it has nothing to do with where people live or the color of their skin.

I am prejudice against lazy bums and gangstas. If they're black, white, purple, green, blue, etc it doesn't matter to me.

My uncomfortableness for Eminem is equal to that of Dr Dre. It has to do with their ghetto attitudes, not their skin tone.

[MJZiggy]

That may be true, P, but be honest with yourself, when you think of the ghetto, what pops into your head? I'd be willing to bet you think of a strong black dude with pants 3 sizes too big and a do-rag long before you consider a white guy with missing teeth and his 400-lb wife. The only thing is that it's the same dude, different neighborhood.

I'm no big fan of the ghetto culture (which if you think about it, is different from the ghetto itself). I think it glorifies violence and perpetuates stereotypes, but to say that everyone in the ghetto has a ghetto attitude is being overly simplistic. Again, things are not black and white nor as simple as you wish them to be.

[Joemailman]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

You are right about racism..however, under the definition used in colleges..usually in order to be racist you have to have the power.

Blacks and other minorities usually don't hold the power.

Anyone who actually thinks the world is significantly better has low standards. Sure, we aren't lynching people anymore, but racism exists all day long.

I've always strongly disagreed with this definition of racism. Hitler was sitting in a jail cell and penniless when he wrote Mein Kampf. The Nazi party was virtually unknown at the time. Hitler had no power at the time, but was certainly a racist when he wrote Mein Kampf. Likewise, many racist people in this country are from the lower rungs of the social/economic ladder. It is true that some become racists because there are powerful people who are able to use racism to spread an agenda, as the Nazis did after they attained power, and as the KKK did here. It would be wrong however, to suggest that in order to be a racist you must have power.

[Zool]

That may be true, P, but be honest with yourself, when you think of the ghetto, what pops into your head? I'd be willing to bet you think of a strong black dude with pants 3 sizes too big and a do-rag long before you consider a white guy with missing teeth and his 400-lb wife. The only thing is that it's the same dude, different neighborhood.

I'm no big fan of the ghetto culture (which if you think about it, is different from the ghetto itself). I think it glorifies violence and perpetuates stereotypes, but to say that everyone in the ghetto has a ghetto attitude is being overly simplistic. Again, things are not black and white nor as simple as you wish them to be.

I think these went out with Naughty By Nature and Bone Thugs N Harmony

[MadtownPacker]

Or as my black friends say..at least in the south we know what they think, in the north they are just quiet about it.Black friends? So you dont just call them your FRIENDS?

Maybe you are one of those people that has to tell people he has black friends to feel better about himself?

BTW - It is because of PackerRats that I can tell Mexicans I have white friends. :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW - It is because of PackerRats that I can tell Mexicans I have white friends. :lol:

Friend. Partial, maybe.

[The Leaper]

Not that difficult: you compare people with the same professional degrees from reputable institutions. Or people with degrees from Big Ten schools. Or whatever.

Really?

So if you squeak by with a 2.6 GPA, you have the same qualifications as someone graduating from the same place with a 3.8 just because you graduated from reputable institutions?

What about actual qualifications once IN the real world? How do you determine if someone in one company really has the same responsibiilty and performance as someone in another company with an equivalent job title? For starters, not all organizations label their jobs the same as others...a senior level position at one company may be a mid-level job in another.

It isn't easy to suggest a large group of people have "similar qualifications", because usually they do not. You would have to do a tremendous amount of research to find a large group of people who actually did possess "similar qualifications"...and few studies have the resources or desire to accomplish that.

[The Leaper]

It would be wrong however, to suggest that in order to be a racist you must have power.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

[SkinBasket]

My uncomfortableness for Eminem is equal to that of Dr Dre. It has to do with their ghetto attitudes, not their skin tone.

I'm sure their "uncomfortableness" toward an overly privileged naive white kid with a penchant for blindly judging others probably surpasses yours for them.

You might understand that if you ever considered that you are not the model for being a successful human, despite what your mom tells you every night before tucking you in.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Or as my black friends say..at least in the south we know what they think, in the north they are just quiet about it.Black friends? So you dont just call them your FRIENDS?

Maybe you are one of those people that has to tell people he has black friends to feel better about himself?

BTW - It is because of PackerRats that I can tell Mexicans I have white friends. :lol:

Of course I am one of those people. www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com....having black friends. :roll:

I used "black" because we are TALKING about racism. My friends don't say that...a subsection of them do. Just as another subsection makes fun of the crappy coldcuts goyim eat, etc.

[Deputy Nutz]

I like how black people call each other, "sugar". Thats cool that white people just don't have.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I like how black people call each other, "sugar". Thats cool that white people just don't have.

It's funny you say that...as i get called that all the time. Last night at Walgreens the cashier said that to me...then apologized.

BTW, you go to Fox Sports Grille?

[MadtownPacker]

Of course I am one of those people. www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com....having black friends. :roll:

I used "black" because we are TALKING about racism. My friends don't say that...a subsection of them do. Just as another subsection makes fun of the crappy coldcuts goyim eat, etc.
I own you. :D

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just as another subsection makes fun of the crappy coldcuts goyim eat, etc.

:lol:

pastrami at a real deli is the food of the gods.

[hoosier]

Not that difficult: you compare people with the same professional degrees from reputable institutions. Or people with degrees from Big Ten schools. Or whatever.

Really?

So if you squeak by with a 2.6 GPA, you have the same qualifications as someone graduating from the same place with a 3.8 just because you graduated from reputable institutions?

What about actual qualifications once IN the real world? How do you determine if someone in one company really has the same responsibiilty and performance as someone in another company with an equivalent job title? For starters, not all organizations label their jobs the same as others...a senior level position at one company may be a mid-level job in another.

It isn't easy to suggest a large group of people have "similar qualifications", because usually they do not. You would have to do a tremendous amount of research to find a large group of people who actually did possess "similar qualifications"...and few studies have the resources or desire to accomplish that.

Come on, we're talking about comparing two large social groups, not four kids who just graduated from the same school. Individual differences in aptitude, dedication, etc. will tend to become insignificant when you look at large groups, while social trends (such as how these groups tend to view other groups) become correspondingly more significant. If you can take a large group and show that, on average, black men in their late 30's and early 40's with college degrees and families earn less than white men of the same age group, same degrees and same family status--and that women meeting the same criteria earn even less--then all of the individual differences you're talking about become statistically meaningless.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Both John McCain & Joe Biden graduated near the bottom of their classes.

School doesn't predict that much.

[Partial]

That may be true, P, but be honest with yourself, when you think of the ghetto, what pops into your head? I'd be willing to bet you think of a strong black dude with pants 3 sizes too big and a do-rag long before you consider a white guy with missing teeth and his 400-lb wife. The only thing is that it's the same dude, different neighborhood.

I'm no big fan of the ghetto culture (which if you think about it, is different from the ghetto itself). I think it glorifies violence and perpetuates stereotypes, but to say that everyone in the ghetto has a ghetto attitude is being overly simplistic. Again, things are not black and white nor as simple as you wish them to be.

I STILL don't think that is racism. When there are 10x more of the former than the later that is probability.

[Partial]

My uncomfortableness for Eminem is equal to that of Dr Dre. It has to do with their ghetto attitudes, not their skin tone.

I'm sure their "uncomfortableness" toward an overly privileged naive white kid with a penchant for blindly judging others probably surpasses yours for them.

You might understand that if you ever considered that you are not the model for being a successful human, despite what your mom tells you every night before tucking you in.

I think it's time you get off your high horse. You're annoying as fuck. And completely full of shit.

[SkinBasket]

http://swissmiss.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bunny26_1.jpg
I think it's time you get off your high horse. You're annoying as fuck. And completely full of shit.

[Deputy Nutz]

I like how black people call each other, "sugar". Thats cool that white people just don't have.

It's funny you say that...as i get called that all the time. Last night at Walgreens the cashier said that to me...then apologized.

BTW, you go to Fox Sports Grille?

I didn't get to any bar to watch the game but thanks again for all the recommendations. I didn't get off the golf course until 6:30 and the game had already started and I had to have dinner with the family.

I love Scottsdale everything you need and very few black people.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Of course I am one of those people. www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com....having black friends. :roll:

I used "black" because we are TALKING about racism. My friends don't say that...a subsection of them do. Just as another subsection makes fun of the crappy coldcuts goyim eat, etc.
I own you. :D

Doubtful, unless you are part eqyptian.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just as another subsection makes fun of the crappy coldcuts goyim eat, etc.

:lol:

pastrami at a real deli is the food of the gods.

True.

Pimento loaf and all the other crap the goyim eat is the anti christ.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I like how black people call each other, "sugar". Thats cool that white people just don't have.

It's funny you say that...as i get called that all the time. Last night at Walgreens the cashier said that to me...then apologized.

BTW, you go to Fox Sports Grille?

I didn't get to any bar to watch the game but thanks again for all the recommendations. I didn't get off the golf course until 6:30 and the game had already started and I had to have dinner with the family.

I love Scottsdale everything you need and very few black people.

True, but it makes getting a black cleaning lady a major problem.

[SkinBasket]

I love Scottsdale everything you need and very few black people.

It's because they shoot each other whenever it gets hot. By they I mean all the guys with the ghetto attitudes, not all the black people, because I'm not racist.

[MJZiggy]

It would be wrong however, to suggest that in order to be a racist you must have power.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

I think you're confusing racism with discrimination. Anyone can be racist simply by judging others according to skin color over ideas, but if you have no power, you can't discriminate.

[Iron Mike]

Its not only white on everyone for racism. Try being as white as me in East LA or Inglewood or Watts. Racism might be less than it was even 50 years ago, but to say its gone is narrow viewed or just plain ignorant of the situation.

Here's part of the problem. It's probably safer for you as a white person to be in East LA or Inglewood or Watts.

White person in the 'hood.....probably has LESS of a chance at getting shot at than a person of color.