PDA

View Full Version : Corners



HarveyWallbangers
03-20-2008, 12:57 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-03-19-sw-defensive-backs_N.htm?csp=34

DRC is intriguing because of the physical tools (although he probably won't be available).

Cason smells like a Packers pick. He's a bigger corner (we like our corners to be phsyical). He doesn't have top end speed (not a big deal with our scheme). He seems like a good guy (that's a little more important in Green Bay).

Anybody know much about the two Big Ten corners listed? I wish they'd report which guys are good in press coverage.


CORNERBACKS

1. Leodis McKelvin, Troy, 5-11, 190, 1st: McKelvin can help immediately as a returner while he learns to harness his athleticism at cornerback. His eight return touchdowns (seven punts, one kickoff) tied an NCAA record shared with such great names as Cliff Branch, Johnny Rodgers, Derek Abney and Chad Owens.

NFL teams were curious to see how he would look against top college players, and he came through extremely well in Senior Bowl practices and at the combine, where his best 40-yard time was 4.38 but included an explosive 10-yard split of only 1.43. NFL scouts like his willingness to be physical.

In 48 career games, McKelvin had four interceptions and 22 pass breakups. He finished with 173 tackles, five forced fumbles and a blocked kick. He also averaged 23.7 yards on 99 kickoff returns and 13.1 yards on 112 punt returns.

2. Mike Jenkins, South Florida, 5-11, 197, 1st: Jenkins seems to have the physical ability to be a top corner, where he played his entire college career, but still doesn't display the necessary techniques. His basic instincts seem to be more that of a safety, where he was a star in high school.

He has excellent straight-line speed, as evidenced by his best 40-yard time at the combine of 4.38 seconds. But on film and in workouts, he didn't show the agility teams like in a cornerback. He does commit himself to making contact but isn't really an aggressive hitter.

His coaches and NFL teams don't seem overly concerned with a March 2007 misdemeanor charge for disorderly conduct after a fight outside a bar.

Jenkins started 40 games for the Bulls and collected 133 tackles. He had six interceptions and broke up 41 passes.

3. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State, 6-2, 184, 1st: A cousin of Chargers Pro Bowl cornerback Antonio Cromartie, this small-school standout was impressive against the big boys in Senior Bowl workouts and had an exceptional game with an interception and some big hits.

"DRC" helped himself again at the combine, where his fastest 40 time was a blazing 4.29 and he had a 10-yard split of 1.41, second-fastest in Indianapolis this year. He also had a vertical jump of 38½ inches.

Rodgers-Cromartie has the confidence — and then some — to step in and play at any level. He is an excellent prospect on pure athletic ability, and some team could reap tremendous rewards if the coaches and the player are patient with each other while eliminating several bad habits and replacing them with better techniques.

4. Antoine Cason, Arizona, 6-0, 190, 1st: Cason is smooth and natural in coverage with good foot quickness, agility and a knack for knocking away passes.

He did not take part in the Senior Bowl and had a mediocre combine that included a best 40-yard time of 4.52, validating concerns he lacks top-end speed.

Still, Cason is a solid player from a family full of top athletes. He is reminiscent of former Wildcat and current Baltimore Ravens standout Chris McAlister.

Cason had 15 career interceptions, and his average of 23.27 yards per interception return set a school record.

Cason has also already established himself as one who takes a positive and active part in his community.

5. *Aqib Talib, Kansas, 6-1, 202, 1st/2nd: Talib did surprisingly well with a 40 time of 4.44 and a vertical jump of 38 inches at the scouting combine.

He is a versatile athlete with the ability to help as a wide receiver if necessary. On defense, he is excellent in man or zone coverage schemes and can hit.

Talib has been on the radar of pro scouts since a sensational freshman season in 2005. His career included 13 interceptions and 43 passes broken up.

He tends to gamble and likes to trash talk, but if he can learn to play within the system, Talib will be an impact performer.

6. *Brandon Flowers, Virginia Tech, 5-10, 190, 2nd: Flowers plays faster than his clock times and hits bigger than he measures. Many teams considered him the No. 1 cornerback heading into the combine.

Despite a so-so showing in Indianapolis, he is still atop some lists. He might have the best pure man coverage ability, and he is one of those rare young corners who already understands the need for film study and seems constantly to improve because of it. He uses his compact body like a weapon and loves to be physical in coverage and on run support. He possesses exceptional initial quickness and smoothly glides as he mirrors receivers.

7. *Reggie Smith, Oklahoma, 6-1, 199, 2nd: Smith is a versatile underclassman with experience at corner and free safety.

He did not work out at the combine but appears to be one of those players whose functional speed is better than what a stopwatch says.

Smith has the coverage instincts to be a shutdown corner and the physicality and ball reaction to be a free safety, plus he is willing to smack anything that moves.

He started 36 games as a Sooner: 20 at strong safety, 16 at cornerback. He deflected 22 passes and intercepted eight others. He totaled 166 tackles and recovered three fumbles.

8. Tracy Porter, Indiana, 5-11, 188, 2nd: Porter is a better athlete than football player, for now anyway.

He did get the attention of scouts at the Senior Bowl by playing with more toughness than expected. He is not known as a physical player, but he bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times at the combine, where he also ran 40 yards in 4.37 seconds. He was timed in 4.29 at his recent pro day workout. Still, most NFL teams remain more concerned with his weight, as he could use an extra 10 pounds of bulk.

Porter's 16 interceptions rank second in school history — and that was on a team that didn't rush the passer very well. He also has the ability to help as a returner.

9. Terrell Thomas, Southern California, 6-1, 202, 2nd/3rd: NFL teams aren't sure if Thomas projects as a cornerback or a free safety.

He looked solid in Senior Bowl workouts as a corner and his best 40 clocking at the combine was 4.45, better than expected. But Thomas lacks that burst or explosion that is mandatory for close coverage against NFL receivers. He is quick to see plays develop and has good geometric instincts that keep him in the middle of plays. All these traits seem to add up to a move to safety if he is to be successful at the next level.

Thomas played in 39 games for the Trojans, making eight interceptions with 22 passes deflected. He also totaled 109 tackles with four sacks.

He has had knee and shoulder injuries that could be a concern.

10. Charles Godfrey, Iowa, 6-0, 207, 3rd: Godfrey played every position in the defensive backfield for the Hawkeyes, befitting of an athlete who is built like a truck and runs like a deer.

He looked good at cornerback in Senior Bowl workouts, and his best 40 clocking at the combine was 4.43. Still, he is far from polished as a cornerback despite notable improvement as a senior.

Of his 28 starts at Iowa, 25 were at cornerback (two at strong safety, one at free safety). His career statistics include 193 tackles, seven interceptions and 14 deflected passes.

11. *Justin King, Penn State,5-11, 192, 3rd: Despite struggling in 2007, King opted to enter the draft with one year of eligibility left because he already graduated.

He put on a memorable show at the combine with a 40 time of 4.31 that included a 10-yard split of 1.40, the fastest at Indianapolis this year.

He has been a known talent since high school and was a prized recruit at Penn State. But when put on an island last year, he had difficulties staying with receivers who ran precise routes. King obviously could have used another year of schooling on the college field, but he has tantalizing natural ability.

12. Chevis Jackson, LSU, 6-0, 192, 3rd/4th: Jackson was proud that he was among the most impressive cornerbacks at the Senior Bowl workouts because he grew up watching that event in his hometown of Mobile, Ala.

He is a smart player who understands offenses and defenses and speaks with authority as a team leader. Jackson plays faster than his clock time (his fastest 40 at the combine was 4.52 seconds) but is not fast enough to be left alone in man coverage very often.

While at LSU, he played in 50 games, started 40, broke up 36 passes and intercepted eight. He also made 142 tackles.

13. Dwight Lowery, San Jose State, 5-11, 190, 3rd/4th: Lowery has amazing ball instincts, evidenced by his 13 interceptions in only two years with the Spartans. That was not a surprise after he stole 13 passes and set a California community college record by returning them 439 yards the previous two years at Cabrillo Junior College. It's all a result of marvelous body control, exceptional hand/eye coordination and a coach's knowledge of the game that made him a natural to call defensive plays.

Although he showed decent coverage skills at East-West Shrine workouts, his 40 at the combine (ranging from 4.54 to 4.7 seconds) are a concern.

Lurker64
03-20-2008, 01:21 PM
Godfrey's overrated and a bit of a workout warrior. He just doesn't know the CB position very well. He could likely be taught it, but he's definitely not a day 1 pick.

Fritz
03-20-2008, 01:22 PM
6. *Brandon Flowers, Virginia Tech, 5-10, 190, 2nd:


NOTE: This guy is also the lead singer and songwriter for The Killers. Ugly mustache, good frontman. Did not know the dude played football, too.

DonHutson
03-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Cason smells like a Packers pick. He's a bigger corner (we like our corners to be phsyical). He doesn't have top end speed (not a big deal with our scheme). He seems like a good guy (that's a little more important in Green Bay).

Anybody know much about the two Big Ten corners listed? I wish they'd report which guys are good in press coverage.quote]

Packer picks can't have too strong an odor since they always seem to sneak up and surprise us.

I don't know much about Porter, but the return aspect makes him intriguing. The question is whether he's tough enough.

I wouldn't mind Godfrey at the end of the second or in the third, if we haven't already addressed the position (or maybe if we have). I've heard comparisons to Craig Newsome as far as demeanor. Sounds like he's faster than Newsome was, but less polished. I'm OK with that. He won't have to start immediately.

twoseven
03-20-2008, 03:25 PM
I've heard comparisons to Craig Newsome as far as demeanor. Sounds like he's faster than Newsome was, but less polished. I'm OK with that. He won't have to start immediately.
Gee, Newsome's basically the last time we selected a CB to play the CB position and he actually started and stuck there. After Edwards, Vinson, Jue, and Carrol (and others I have not listed) I am still ready for the second coming of Craig..

The Leaper
03-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Cason and Talib should earn very strong consideration if either remains on the board at our pick...although I think the chances of that are slim.

Guiness
03-20-2008, 04:07 PM
Cason and Talib should earn very strong consideration if either remains on the board at our pick...although I think the chances of that are slim.

You think they'll be gone?

With Cromatrie having shot up the charts (wasn't that long ago it was thought HE'D be there for our pick) one of those two should be available. Unless three CB's go in the first.

The Leaper
03-20-2008, 04:26 PM
You think they'll be gone?

I think both are likely to be taken before our pick. While Kiper isn't a genius, he has DRC pegged as the #10 overall prospect and Talib as the #21 overall prospect. I don't think there is any chance either of them fall to us.

Cason is the guy who could drop due to his somewhat lackluster speed numbers...and the way some teams might be interested in the speed of smaller guys like Flowers or McKelvin.

I expect 4 or 5 CBs to be selected in the first round.

Guiness
03-20-2008, 04:30 PM
4 or 5 CB's, quite possibly 2 DT's in the top 5. Many seem to think McFadden will drop as low as #7, and no WR's taken in the top 20.

Could be a strange draft indeed.

Partial
03-20-2008, 04:31 PM
4 or 5 CB's, quite possibly 2 DT's in the top 5. Many seem to think McFadden will drop as low as #7, and no WR's taken in the top 20.

Could be a strange draft indeed.

I'll say. What's really weird is two of Oklahoma's premiere prospects are refusing to work out to this point. Both were projected to go top 20. I can't see that happening if they don't workout for scouts!!

Fritz
03-20-2008, 05:06 PM
The Casons are rolling along.

privatepacker
03-21-2008, 12:01 AM
If Dallas signs Pacman Jones then there is a chance that a quality corner will fall to us.

run pMc
03-21-2008, 09:45 AM
I thought I read somewhere that Cason wasn't a very physical guy....kind of a requisite for press man coverage. I seem to remember reading that Flowers had a crappy showing at the Combine.

I wish I could find the sources. :(

Based on the descriptions and who will probably be available, it could be Flowers or Smith. McKelvin, Jenkins, DRC will be gone; Talib might be. If DRC is on the board I hope TT picks him.

Ah, he'll probably pick a WR like Devin Thomas instead.

RashanGary
03-21-2008, 10:06 AM
Cason is moving up fast. I wonder if he'll be around when we pick. If I had to take a stab at a TT type player, Cason is it. Like Harvey said, he's a good character guy and a bigger CB (TT seems to prefer taller CB's)

He's also the Jim Thorpe award winner for best DB in college football and the closest thing to a shut down CB based on how few balls were completed to his side of the field. His game stats are the best of the best for whatever that is worth. It's similar to a RB who runs for 2,000 yards or a WR who catches 70 passes. He produced, pure plain and simple. Those are the types TT goes after. Problem is, those are the types many teams go after. He might be gone.

Lurker64
03-21-2008, 11:40 AM
Cason is moving up fast.

I'm curious about what we mean when we say a player is "moving up." Now it definitely refers to "moving up on draft boards", but whose draft boards? Is it the boards of the so called "draft experts at ESPN? How about the boards of the ten thousand people that throw together mock drafts on the internet? Is it the draft boards of NFL GMs and scouting departments? I'm dubious about the last point, since I don't believe any NFL GM or scout would (in good conscience) give accurate information about the state of their board before the draft.

Realistically, the only boards that affect whether or not we get Cason are the boards of 29 NFL teams (ours and the 28 teams drafting before us.)

Pack-man
03-21-2008, 11:59 AM
The guy I'd like to see slip is Mike Jenkins. He is a very physical CB who would fit in perfect with the scheme the Pack plays now! Not sure he would be available.

red
03-21-2008, 12:03 PM
The guy I'd like to see slip is Mike Jenkins. He is a very physical CB who would fit in perfect with the scheme the Pack plays now! Not sure he would be available.

i've seen some of his hits

holy crap, he can put the fear of god in folks

can he cover though? he sure seems like a big built fast guy. and it sounds he would fit in well with woodson and harris as far as style of play. but i've never really watched him

mission
03-21-2008, 12:06 PM
The guy I'd like to see slip is Mike Jenkins. He is a very physical CB who would fit in perfect with the scheme the Pack plays now! Not sure he would be available.

i agree... i think he's going to be a stud.

as much as im a "character doesnt matter, fuck it, lets get some talent" and then the next post i worry about a guy's history (ya im an idiot!), those south florida guys... they're pretty much all the miami cats that couldnt be snuck into the U ... some hood fellas. i dont wanna paint homie with some stereotypical brush as i havent heard any bad reports but yanno... it's a different culture down there. it's some pacman jones make it rain kinda shit.

anyone know anything about that side of jenkins? any reports?

RashanGary
03-21-2008, 12:24 PM
What I mean, Lurker, is that as the draft is approaching and more is dug p on these guys, he's standing out as one of the most productive, quality corners in this draft. The year before sites get all of this info on guys they think are going to be studs but as the season plays on and the offseason wears on, they get all of the info on these guys from character to how they played, to if they meet physical standards, ect. . . Eventually gusy move up or down based on hwo they project. The more I read, the more I think Cason has a good chance of being gone. Sure, I'm not privvy to war rooms across the NFL and they are the only truely meaningfull opinions, but how often do top 5 projected picks fall to 30? Maybe once every 5 years? How often do guys projected to go in the 7th go in the 1st? These sites aren't perfect, but they're the best we've got and according to the one I trust, Cason is moving up fast. I didn't think I had to qualify it with "I don't work for an NFL team or have knolwedge of every teams draft board". I thought my opinion was taken for what it was. I never meant to come across as having all of the answers.

Lurker64
03-21-2008, 12:29 PM
Mostly what I'm saying is that what's happened over the last few weeks is that pundits became aware of Cason's potential and are grading him higher. I'm confident that NFL scouting departments already were aware of Cason's potential well before the last few weeks.

3irty1
03-21-2008, 12:31 PM
I'd be surprised if Cason was taken in the first round. Not because he's bad, just because of all the other options.

RashanGary
03-21-2008, 01:08 PM
Mostly what I'm saying is that what's happened over the last few weeks is that pundits became aware of Cason's potential and are grading him higher. I'm confident that NFL scouting departments already were aware of Cason's potential well before the last few weeks.

Yeah, and I probably am guilty of trusting information more than I should and definilty guilty of overrating my own opinion. I get better as I get older, but I still give in to my human tendancy to think I have more answers than I do.

The thing about Cason is he plays for an average sized school in a not so spectacular conference so he might be overlooked by some internet sites. He was the Jim Thorpe Award winner for best college DB. They ahve stats for balls completed on CB's and Cason's stats are better than any CB in this years draft as far as shutting down his side of the field. He's not the flashy 4.33 40 guy, but he's the most productive corner in this draft. I tend to think NFL execs will put more stock in how the guy played than in his 40 time (which is more than good enoguh anyway). There are some recources that put more stock in physical skills (NFLdraftcountdown and ESPN) and there are others that put more stock in how a guy plays (NFLdraftscout). I trust NFL draftscout more than the other two. Also, based on my interperatation of what is written and stats that are documented, I think Cason is the most solid, ready to play CB in this draft so more than anything I'm using my opinion (which could be right or wrong obviously)

HarveyWallbangers
04-23-2008, 03:00 PM
Gee, Newsome's basically the last time we selected a CB to play the CB position and he actually started and stuck there. After Edwards, Vinson, Jue, and Carrol (and others I have not listed) I am still ready for the second coming of Craig.

I'd take Mike McKenzie... without the off-the-field stuff.