Camp competitions

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think new guys coming get some publicity, and everybody wants to believe that they are better than players already on the roster. Some examples where I expect the players may be close in ability, and hope for a fair competition:

Manuel & Roman

Hodge & Manning

Fergie & Gardner

[Patler]

I think new guys coming get some publicity, and everybody wants to believe that they are better than players already on the roster. Some examples where I expect the players may be close in ability, and hope for a fair competition:

Manuel & Roman

Hodge & Manning

Fergie & Gardner

Methinks HH merely attempts to stir the pot!

[Harlan Huckleby]

no, I'm quite sincere. Roman beat-out Manuel for a starting job when they were both at Cincinnatti. Manuel has mostly been a backup in the NFL. They are of similar pedigree.

I have high hopes for Hodge, but Manning was a good rookie, and players often make a jump in their second year. They were similar players in the Big Ten. Well, Manning went undrafted. But I am open-minded to him being a real player.

Fergie versus Gardner is certainly an open question, Gardner has not caught fire with any team yet.

[Murphy37]

no, I'm quite sincere. Roman beat-out Manuel for a starting job when they were both at Cincinnatti. Manuel has mostly been a backup in the NFL. They are of similar pedigree.

I have high hopes for Hodge, but Manning was a good rookie, and players often make a jump in their second year. They were similar players in the Big Ten. Well, Manning went undrafted. But I am open-minded to him being a real player.

Fergie versus Gardner is certainly an open question, Gardner has not caught fire with any team yet.

A friend of mine's flannel underware caught fire when he was lighting farts once. Lint is highly flammable.

[Patler]

I kind of look at Roman and Manuel as two similar players who have gone in opposite directions the last two years. Not necessarily by a lot, but tending that way. The more I read about the situation, I think TT realized he needs a "coach on the field" type of safety, and Manuel seems to be that. If their abilities are similar, I think Manuel wins because of that, and that may be all there is.


Gardner has had seasons of 46, 71, 59 and 51 catches until last year with just 13. Ferguson's have been 0, 22,38, 24 and 27. As receivers I don't think it is close. Their careers both started in 2001. Gardner has 240 rec. for 3148 yards. Ferguson is 111 for 1546. Even with last year, Gardner's average far exceeds Fergusons best year. All Gardner has to do is be the receiver he was in Washington the first four years, and I think he beats Ferguson easily.

Manning and Hodge could be interesting. Manning only started one year at Michigan. I thought he looked good early last year in spot duty, but then flamed out as the year progressed. Hodge had a much more impressive college career than Manning, but there is the question of whether he can duplicate that in the pros, and if his lack of size will be a drawback.

[wist43]

HH, of those position battles listed, I like the newcomer over the mainstay better in every case.

Gardner may have put up better numbers over his career than Fergie, but he is a long strider, and isn't necessarily a good fit for the system... In a different system, I think he beats Fergie out easily, but in the WC, it'll be an interesting battle.

I like Manuel over Roman only b/c of his physicality... I like tough safties, and Manuel fits that bill better.

I like Manning, but I think Hodge is one hell of a player and will be very surprised if he's not starting at some point this year. Everybody knocks Hodge for his lack of size, but he's essentially the same size as #9 pick Ernie Sims - and for my money, he's maybe the toughest pound for pound guy in this draft.

To me, the most interesting battles will be for the 2 open OL spots - assuming Colledge locks down LG. At this point, I'd prefer to see Coston and Spitz win those spots; but, the Packers have Wells running with the #1 unit at this point.

[Murphy37]

What about Woodson/Carrol? Ok calm down, Woodson should win that position. Does this guarantee Carrol the Nickel spot? Once again, probably. But D-back is a position to watch in the next few years. Woodson and Harris are going to get old fast. Carrol has shown great footspeed and coverage ability, but terrible ball play. Who else is gonna step up?

O-guard is still the most interesting battle to me. Colledge, Wells, and Coston penciled in at starters does not put me at ease, it makes me want to wet myself. There better be some competition for these guys, or our depth is gonna be awful.

[HarveyWallbangers]

no, I'm quite sincere. Roman beat-out Manuel for a starting job when they were both at Cincinnatti. Manuel has mostly been a backup in the NFL. They are of similar pedigree.

Similar pedigree--except that Manuel played better last year after replacing Hamlin than Roman has ever played. His injury in the Super Bowl was a killer for the Seahawks. Manuel may not be the answer, but I don't think it matters than Roman was better 3-4 years ago in Cincinnati. Maybe Manuel has worked to be a better player--while Roman worries too much about competition. I trust in Ted Thompson on this one. He's seen Mark Roman in the better of his two years here, and he felt like Manuel is an upgrade. He should know since he's seen a lot of Manuel and brought him to Seattle.

[RashanGary]

I like Manuel, Fergi, Hodge as well.

It could be Garnder though. You never know. At least he catches the ball. I wish we could put Jennings skills on Fergs body. We'd have something there.

[Guiness]

I don't think you can consider the time Manual and Roman crossed paths in Cincy. Manuel was in his first and second seasons in the league, Roman in his 3rd and 4th. Big developmental difference at that point, IMO.

I think everyone would like to see Manuel make it, because that means the position will be upgraded. We know what Roman will bring - same as last year, middle of the road play.

Gardner vs Ferg is interesting. I think Gardner has to make it as a #2, or he's gone. If they're battling for #4, Ferg gets the nod because of his ST play. So it's not really Gardner vs Ferg, it's Gardner vs everyone else to see if he can be a starter.

Personally, I think there will be two interesting camp battles:

The aforementioned OL - Coston vs Spits vs Klemm vs Whitt

RB - Gado, Green, Davenport and Leach
I think Davenport is going to make a run at starter with Gado and Green. If he doesn't, he might knock off Leach for the second FB spot.

IMO the only one who has his spot locked up in this crew is Hendo.

[The Leaper]

What? No battle royale over who will win the punter's job?

[the_idle_threat]

Naw, Ingle Martin has the punting job sewn up.

[wist43]

Carroll is the nickel back... period. There will be no competition for a starting corner job.

He only gets his starting spot back one of three ways:

1) Thru injury
2) Harris' production falls off b/c he loses what little speed he had
3) Woodson pouts his way on to the bench as the losses mount

To tell you the truth, any one of those three is very possible... To start the season, however, it's Harris and Woodson starting at the corners.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Carroll is the nickel back... period. There will be no competition for a starting corner job.

He only gets his starting spot back one of three ways:

1) Thru injury
2) Harris' production falls off b/c he loses what little speed he had
3) Woodson pouts his way on to the bench as the losses mount

To tell you the truth, any one of those three is very possible... To start the season, however, it's Harris and Woodson starting at the corners.

I'm in full agreement. Gotta put the money men (Harris and Woodson) at the corners, for better or for worse. And Carroll is a nickelback. Maybe he'll learn something from Woodson and from the demotion and be a different player. Guess we'll see on passing downs.

:D

tyler

[Tony Oday]

Gado starts at RB
Gardner has a 60 catch season
Donald Lee has a 40 catch season
Wells solidifies the center of the offensive line
Manuel leads the secondary to shut down the passing game
cant run against Barnett, Hawk, Pickett and Kamp

I love this offseason I bet we are 10-6

[GBRulz]

I think the RB's come down to one thing: who is the healthiest. I think Gado is going to get the start.

As far as the CB's, knocking Caroll's head down to earth is exactly what this kid needs. We'll see how great he thinks he is when he's watching Woodson out there with his old job. As far as Harris, I'm not worried a bit. I think his production last year fell off the last 4-5 games simply because he realized the season was already in the tank.

[Oscar]

The O-Line comp. is gonna be interesting to watch. But, both sides of the kicking game have me a bit worried.. :neutral:

[Anti-Polar Bear]

No way anybody on the Packers, nor ANYBODY IN THE NFL, starts over a healthy Ahman Green. Green will rush for 2000+ yds this season.

TB Depth, predicted 2006 rushing stats:
Green 2223 yds 5.8 avg. 32 tds
Davenport 210 yds 4.3 avg. 3 tds
Gado (third down back) 140 yds 4.1 avg. 2 tds

[wist43]

Off the meds tonight??? 32 TD's??? LOL

[SD GB fan]

RB: Green vs Gado vs Davenport (<-not really, but maybe)
WR: Gardner vs Boegriter, Bookman vs Martin vs Rodgers
LB: Taylor vs Manning (Hodge will be backup MLB this season but will compete to start next season unless he develops a lot)
S: Roman vs Manuel

i predict Green, Gardner, Rodgers, Manning, and Manuel as the winners

[MadtownPacker]

Upset special: Rodgers take the #1 QB spot from Favre :razz: .

Back in the real world:
Gado takes over but Ahman shines with carries he gets.

Gardener puts Fergie back on ST where he excels.

Roman holds off Manuel but is mostly due to Manuel getting up to speed. Loses starter spot by midseason.

[b bulldog]

My upset special has Manning starting at LB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I thought Roman had a decent season in 2005, and played with injuries in 2004. He's a good tackler, I don't see him being the washout that others do.

I like the idea that players compete for jobs.
Last year this time, a lot of people had O'Dwyer as a shoe-in.
Maybe Hawkins will move ahead of Carrol. Or maybe (long shot) Woodson is over-the-hill, and Carrol will take his job!

[KYPack]

I thought Roman had a decent season in 2005, and played with injuries in 2004. He's a good tackler, I don't see him being the washout that others do.

I like the idea that players compete for jobs.
Last year this time, a lot of people had O'Dwyer as a shoe-in.
Maybe Hawkins will move ahead of Carrol. Or maybe (long shot) Woodson is over-the-hill, and Carrol will take his job!

Well, you've been accused of "pot stirring' lately, so maybe I've swallowed your hook. Roman had a decent season? I don't think so. He whiffed on a tackle that cost us a ball game. That doesn't even equal good tackler. As far as his past record, it's basically been very up and down.

If I had to describe Roman, it would be "an inconsistent veteran who doesn't play to expectations". The big probelm with the guy is that you never know if he'll show up. When he plays well, he's OK. When he's off, he'll cost you a game, just like last year.

We could argue, I guess. The proof in the pudding is the fact that the team brought in another safety at good money to try and upgrade the position. You don't do that if you have a veteran that had a decent year.

[GBRulz]

Upset special: Rodgers take the #1 QB spot from Favre :razz: .

I think "Pepto Bismal Special" is more fitting!

[Patler]

KY, just a couple comments, because I sort of agree with HH.

Collins was a worse tackler in 2005 than Roman. Collins missed 19 tackles, which was more than Sharper ever missed in a year, and much more than Roman who had 12 missed tackles in 2005.

Manuel was not a very expensive FA, at $2,million per year average and a cap figure under $2 million in 2006. With a salary cap over $100 million, he is being paid only an "average" amount. I don't think he was brought in because they expect a big improvement in his play over Roman's, I think he was brought in because of his ability to direct the d-backfield on the field. They've lacked that ever since Butler left, and Manuel is supposed to be very good in that regard. His individual play might not be better than Roman, but overall the backfield might perform better with him on the field.

[MadtownPacker]

Collins was a worse tackler in 2005 than Roman. Collins missed 19 tackles, which was more than Sharper ever missed in a year, and much more than Roman who had 12 missed tackles in 2005.

Hard for sharper to miss tackles when he was too busy trying to get an INT/return for a big play instead of stopping a big play from happening. Dont recall him laying the wood much at all. Last big hit from him was in like 2000 on MNF when he got a good one on moss.

I wonder how many of Collins misses came from when he was running from the across the field to clean up for a teammate? If you saw all the games last season then you must have seen Collins come out of nowhere to stop what where likely TDs.

[Rastak]

Collins was a worse tackler in 2005 than Roman. Collins missed 19 tackles, which was more than Sharper ever missed in a year, and much more than Roman who had 12 missed tackles in 2005.

Hard for sharper to miss tackles when he was too busy trying to get an INT/return for a big play instead of stopping a big play from happening. Dont recall him laying the wood much at all. Last big hit from him was in like 2000 on MNF when he got a good one on moss.

I wonder how many of Collins misses came from when he was running from the across the field to clean up for a teammate? If you saw all the games last season then you must have seen Collins come out of nowhere to stop what where likely TDs.


Sharp, takin it to the house! Brings back great memories of last year....one of the few anyway....LOL


I though Roman and Collins both played pretty well last year. Roman had some very good games and I think he probably thought he had grabbed ahold of that job and hence his disappointment once they brought in a FA.

[The Leaper]

Collins missed more tackles because he was able to cover twice the field area that Roman can cover. Collins also lays the smack down and punishes guys when he does tackle them...and I think that tends to lead to more missed tackles as well. He is a playmaker...like Sharper...and those guys will sometimes miss a tackle because they are trying to make a play. The kid was a rookie who didn't even play in a top conference in college...yet was thrown out there as a starter behind a very weak front seven. Is it any wonder he missed some tackles last year?? The FACT is that Collins improved during the course of the year dramatically, regardless of missed tackle statistics or anything else.

A veteran like Roman, who isn't exactly fleet of foot, can't miss 12 tackles in a year. He's not a playmaker. He should be fundamentally sound and miss very few tackles, because he isn't making big plays happen otherwise. I also believe Roman missed 16 or 18 tackles in 2004...so over 2 years he's missed almost 30 tackles. I find that unacceptable for a guy with his experience and ability.

[MadtownPacker]

Sharp, takin it to the house! Brings back great memories of last year....one of the few anyway....LOL


I though Roman and Collins both played pretty well last year. Roman had some very good games and I think he probably thought he had grabbed ahold of that job and hence his disappointment once they brought in a FA.
Your right, pretty boy did put in some work with the INTs. I still hate him. Here's to him following up a good year in purple like he followed up his good years in G&G.

[Deputy Nutz]

Manuel will get every opportunity to succeed as the starting safety. If he fails I am really not that worried, I thought he was a safe pick up, but they still had Roman :oops: , who is an average safety in this league, and they also have Underwood. Signing Manuel really improved the depth at safety more than anything else, he isn't going to be a pro bowler, he doesn't cause enough turnovers.

[Patler]

Collins missed more tackles because he was able to cover twice the field area that Roman can cover.
.

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.

[KYPack]

KY, just a couple comments, because I sort of agree with HH.

Collins was a worse tackler in 2005 than Roman. Collins missed 19 tackles, which was more than Sharper ever missed in a year, and much more than Roman who had 12 missed tackles in 2005.

Manuel was not a very expensive FA, at $2,million per year average and a cap figure under $2 million in 2006. With a salary cap over $100 million, he is being paid only an "average" amount. I don't think he was brought in because they expect a big improvement in his play over Roman's, I think he was brought in because of his ability to direct the d-backfield on the field. They've lacked that ever since Butler left, and Manuel is supposed to be very good in that regard. His individual play might not be better than Roman, but overall the backfield might perform better with him on the field.

There are other comments below in other posts, but if you agree w/ HH, then I disagree with both of ya. Statistics don't represent this argument very well. Roman has been inconsistent his whole stay here, and in his whole NFL career, for that matter.

Roman "disappears" from time to time, and his mistakes at crucial times costs the team games. These incosistencies will cost Roman his starting job.

I've seen both guys play for most of their career. Manuel is the superior player, but he ain't flawless, either. He has coverage issues, and loses confidence when beaten deep, which can happen to the boy. He will bring the wood to some running backs and recievers. His hitting is infectious and his overall spirit will help our D.

As far as Collins missing more tackles, he was a rook, fer crissakes. Collins made a huge leap in his first year and will be a leader for us for years to come, barring injury.

[Patler]

He is a playmaker...like Sharper...and those guys will sometimes miss a tackle because they are trying to make a play.

Collins was a playmaker...like Sharper? Are you kidding? Based on his ONE interception and numerous drops?

Sharper came into the league with questions about his college background too, having played at William & Mary. More players have been drafted from Bethune-Cookman in the last 25 years than from Willam & Mary. Sharper is the only one in the last 15 years from W&M. Yet in a part time role as a rookie Sharper had two interceptions, both returned for touchdowns.

I'm not suggesting Collins won't turn out to be a better player than Roman, he very likely will. But he has a lot to prove yet before he becomes the all-pro that some seem to think he is. He has a long way to go before being a playmaker to the extent Sharper has been. Collins had a good rookie year, but let's not blow it out of reasonable proportions.

[Patler]

KY; I think you have the wrong impression. I expect Manuel will be the starter in place of Roman, mostly because of his leadership abilities, things like that. The backfield needs a player like him. However, I believe Roman played considerably better in 2005 than in 2004 and was not completely awful.

[Patler]

I also think the exuberance over Collins should be tempered just a bit, not because I don't think he will be good, I think he will. But, his year last year was good, not great. Hopefully he will build on it. If he doesn't he will be one of those player you can play with, but he won't be a difference maker. 2006 will be an interesting year to follow Collins. I also think Manuel may have been brought in because he can help with Collins development more than Roman could, with on-field guidance.

[KYPack]

KY; I think you have the wrong impression. I expect Manuel will be the starter in place of Roman, mostly because of his leadership abilities, things like that. The backfield needs a player like him. However, I believe Roman played considerably better in 2005 than in 2004 and was not completely awful.

OK, Patrock.

I was going by your statement that you sided with HH (who is probably running a game on me anyway)

Yeah, Roman CAN play at a decent level, he just doesn't do it enough to be an NFL starter. The other problem with the guy is that he doesn't lead the defense or get anybody fired up. Coaches hate it when the safety screws up. It brings the whole "D" down.

Manuel is that kind of player. Hopefully they can get him in schemes that will help him with his coverage problems.

[Guiness]

IIRC (and I might well not) Sharper's two INTs in his rookie year were in dime defense situations, where he was put out as a center fielder. So he would've had no real coverage assignment, except to be a ball hawk. Collins was the starter, so was never allowed to roam like that.

I think Collins had a very good first year, but as you state, not exceptional. Having played at full speed for a year, I'm anxious to see how he is now that he comes into his sophmore camp with some confidence as the incumbent starter.

As far as Roman - *shrug* a mediocre player. Seems to get beat deep for TD's when he's playing the deep safety.

[red]

i think green will definately be the starter, no doubt in my mind

i think you will have to throw taylor into the mix at the LBer battle, and maybe barnett. you take the best two guys at whatever spot they are best at. if hodge is the best MLB, then he should be there. if taylor or manning are the best outside then they should start there. if barnett is the best at any position, he should go there

i also think you have to throw jennings into the wr battle. he might not be a #2 yet, but he should be a #3, which is where the losser of the #2 battle between gardner and fergy should be. and who knows, they say jennings was the most nfl ready wr in the draft, maybe he can step in at #2 right away.

TC will tell

[The Leaper]

Sharper came into the league with questions about his college background too, having played at William & Mary. More players have been drafted from Bethune-Cookman in the last 25 years than from Willam & Mary. Sharper is the only one in the last 15 years from W&M. Yet in a part time role as a rookie Sharper had two interceptions, both returned for touchdowns.

Sharper's rookie year was 1997. The defense was still extremely talented, and the team overall remained a title contender. Sharper had LeRoy Butler next to him...who arguably was the best safety in the NFL at the time and who played up at the line of scrimmage, allowing Sharper to not have to play the entire field. Collins came into a situation where the defense was one of the worst in team history the year before and lacked playmakers across the board. Don't sit here and try to tell me that the two situations are at all comparable.

I never said Collins was an All-Pro, or even a potential All-Pro. He had an excellent rookie season for a kid who didn't play against elite competition in college and was an immediate starter on a team with massive problems at all levels on defense. 19 missed tackles for a rookie who covers a large portion of the field on a subpar defense and showed marked improvement from week 1 through week 17 isn't abominable IMO. That was my point. If Collins is going to turn into an All-Pro level performer, he is going to have to capitalize on offensive miscues and reduce his mistakes...which includes missed tackles.

[MadtownPacker]

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.Well if Roman was tackling more maybe that is because the guy he was covering caught the ball more? The where numerous plays where Collins leveled the receiver, which caused an incompletion. Just ask Chad Johnson. Haha, I still love that monster hit Collins served him.

[Patler]

I've said Collins had a good year, but the fact he was a starter probably had more to do with the lack of talent on defense more than his own readiness to play. So far he has shown an ability to be in position to be a play maker, but he has not shown the ability to actually be one. Way to early to call him a playmaker.

[Patler]

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.Well if Roman was tackling more maybe that is because the guy he was covering caught the ball more? The where numerous plays where Collins leveled the receiver, which caused an incompletion. Just ask Chad Johnson. Haha, I still love that monster hit Collins served him.

Collins has shown an ability to hit. I've tried to remember this morning, but can't. Who was the guy that Roman absolutely leveled in the early part of the season? It was very impressive at the time, and shocking. I saw the hit and thought "must be Collins" then he turned and I saw it was Roman and figured they switched jerseys!

[MadtownPacker]

I've said Collins had a good year, but the fact he was a starter probably had more to do with the lack of talent on defense more than his own readiness to play. So far he has shown an ability to be in position to be a play maker, but he has not shown the ability to actually be one. Way to early to call him a playmaker.I guess your right about that, for now. Collins had many passes slip through his hands. Those passes are going to look alot slower this season and I expect him to make the INT. He starts making those pick and he is a playmaker for sure.

[The Leaper]

Way to early to call him a playmaker.

I'm calling him a playmaker because that is the style of play he fits under, not because I think he one of the top playmakers in the NFL at present.

Roman is not a playmaker. He is slow, and relatively weak hitting. He plays smart, disciplined football because he doesn't have the athletic ability to create plays on his own very often. Collins is a playmaker because he is much quicker and has the athletic ability to capitalize on offensive mistakes and even recover to some extent on mistakes of his own. Several times last year he got himself in position to make a play, but didn't capitalize. Rather than worry about a rookie not capitalizing, I see it as a huge positive that he got himself in a position to make a play. That is why he is a playmaker. Now, he just needs to gain confidence in the system and his ability in order to make the play. That is the natural evolution of most young football players.

[Bossman641]

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.Well if Roman was tackling more maybe that is because the guy he was covering caught the ball more? The where numerous plays where Collins leveled the receiver, which caused an incompletion. Just ask Chad Johnson. Haha, I still love that monster hit Collins served him.

Collins has shown an ability to hit. I've tried to remember this morning, but can't. Who was the guy that Roman absolutely leveled in the early part of the season? It was very impressive at the time, and shocking. I saw the hit and thought "must be Collins" then he turned and I saw it was Roman and figured they switched jerseys!

Roman had a couple big hits during the year. I seem to remember him drilling someone in the end zone to break up a sure TD pass. I want to say it was against Carolina.

I thought he played at least respectable last year, much better than in 2004. I still don't want to see him starting though, he'd be better off as a backup. Manuel might not bring much more physically than Roman, but hopefully he brings more mentally.