Afghanistan

[Harlan Huckleby]

A lot of people think that the problem with Iraq was we acted without international support. Ignored diplomacy.

And the other criticism is we should be fighting harder in Afghanistan, the real hotbed of terrorism. We took our eye off the ball.

Well, WTF, the Europeans are not willing to help in Afghanistan either! From what I read, the Euros don't want to send troops anymore, and NATO is crumbling as a result. The Europeans have been hit a lot by terrorism, it's not like they are neutral parties. But either they think Afghanistan is irrelevant or they are willing to let the U.S. do the dirty work. (Great Britian is exception.)

[Freak Out]

A lot of people think that the problem with Iraq was we acted without international support. Ignored diplomacy.

And the other criticism is we should be fighting harder in Afghanistan, the real hotbed of terrorism. We took our eye off the ball.

Well, WTF, the Europeans are not willing to help in Afghanistan either! From what I read, the Euros don't want to send troops anymore, and NATO is crumbling as a result. The Europeans have been hit a lot by terrorism, it's not like they are neutral parties. But either they think Afghanistan is irrelevant or they are willing to let the U.S. do the dirty work. (Great Britian is exception.)

We can't blame the Europeans for the failures in Afghanistan. We chose when and how to go about taking out the Taliban and Bin Laden's nutters not them. The CIA and suitcases full of cash are only going to get you so far.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Freak Out, the Europeans have been with us in the past on Afghanistan. IT seems they have just become weary of the grinding struggle.

I'm not sure what you are saying about CIA.

It sounds like you are saying the U.S. is just inherently evil, and that is the problem.

if Obama gets in power are we still evil?

Actually, the situation might be helped if Obama were in power, maybe part of this is anger at Bush.

[Freak Out]

Freak Out, the Europeans have been with us in the past on Afghanistan. IT seems they have just become weary of the grinding struggle.

I'm not sure what you are saying about CIA.

It sounds like you are saying the U.S. is just inherently evil, and that is the problem.

if Obama gets in power are we still evil?

Actually, the situation might be helped if Obama were in power, maybe part of this is anger at Bush.

:lol:

The European public does not like to see their folks coming home from far away places in body bags.....and the politicians know it.

As far as I'm concerned our approach to Afghanistan was all wrong from the get go. We relied on the wrong people to handle most of the work (Northern Alliance and other warlords) and only used special forces and CIA in some very critical times. We needed to dominate and we didn't.

[Harlan Huckleby]

We relied on the wrong people to handle most of the work (Northern Alliance and other warlords) and only used special forces and CIA in some very critical times. We needed to dominate and we didn't.

Boy, the notion of trying to "dominate" Afghanistan sounds pretty unappealing. Afghanistan is even now just a patchwork of warlords, I can't imagine trying to work around them.

I've never heard anybody really criticize the strategy we used to rout the Taliban, that seemed to work pretty well. The problem was in allowing the Taliban to come back.

[Freak Out]

We relied on the wrong people to handle most of the work (Northern Alliance and other warlords) and only used special forces and CIA in some very critical times. We needed to dominate and we didn't.

Boy, the notion of trying to "dominate" Afghanistan sounds pretty unappealing. Afghanistan is even now just a patchwork of warlords, I can't imagine trying to work around them.

I've never heard anybody really criticize the strategy we used to rout the Taliban, that seemed to work pretty well. The problem was in allowing the Taliban to come back.

Dominate the forces in the field...including most of the Warlords. The Central government is nothing today because we didn't do that. Sure..."we" were able to rout the Taliban....and we also let them cross into Pakistan, Iran and regroup in other areas within Afghanistan.

Funny how Bin laden is never mentioned in DC much anymore. At least in public.

[Joemailman]

I was under the impression the reason Europe is balking at helping more in Afghanistan has to do with Iraq. Many Europeans feel they will be left holding the bag in Afghanistan because the U.S. is bogged down in Iraq. They want the U.S. to get out of Iraq before they will be willing to increase their presence in Afghanistan. Not suggesting this is the only reason. Since WWII, many European countries have become almost pacifistic. Clinton had to assure NATO that the Kosovo campaign would not mean a ground attack in order to get NATO support.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They want the U.S. to get out of Iraq before they will be willing to increase their presence in Afghanistan.

I've never heard this theory.

I don't see how the Euros can possibly complain about the U.S. staying in Iraq, it's hard to see the U.S. occupation as self-serving at this point.

But of course people are emotional.

[Freak Out]

Imagine being in this situation in Afghanistan.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89317849

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do you think the U.S. is playing a destructive role in Afghanistan?

[Freak Out]

Do you think the U.S. is playing a destructive role in Afghanistan?

Yes and no. We are trying to do lots of fantastic things but at the same time were forced into storming villages in the middle of the night shooting women and children because we didn't do the job right in the first place. There are lots of hard working Americans both civilian and military working there for the good of the Afghan people. I have family there as we speak.

[texaspackerbacker]

Actually, we CAN blame the Europeans in the sense that they are proving to be a much less effective military force than our own.

Part of the problem in Afghanistan is actually the success in Iraq. Al Qaeda has shown the tendency to prefer softer targets to harder ones--the reason they prioritized screwing up Iraq over hitting us at home. Similarly, now that we have turned the Sunni tribes to oppose al Qaeda in Iraq, they seem to be phasing things out there and going back to Afghanistan.

The softer targets thing also explains why Europe is at least making an effort in Afghanistan--they don't like seeing body bags in their own streets and subways either.

I have never bought into the argument that we should make a supreme effort to comb the mountainous border region for Bin Laden. That would amount to basically a large risk of losses for not much more than revenge--Bin Laden probably not being much of an operational threat nowadays. That was the mistake the Soviets made, and I can't help thinking that American leftists who suggest we do the same are wishing for bad things to happen to America and Americans.

The resurgence of the Taliban and the prospect--albeit remote--of Afghanistan going back into the hands of the bad guys is indeed reason to take notice and keep it from happening.

As for any crap about America "playing a destructive role" in Afghanistan, forget that. We saved them from the horrors of a Muslim fundamentalist police state. The only people who would not be expected to be grateful for that are the ones who were part of the problem.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I have never bought into the argument that we should make a supreme effort to comb the mountainous border region for Bin Laden. That would amount to basically a large risk of losses for not much more than revenge--Bin Laden probably not being much of an operational threat nowadays.

I agree. And I doubt we had the ability to get him back in the "tora bora days." It's not that hard to hide somebody when local support is solid.

John McCain has been saying, "I know how to get Osama Bin Laden, and I will get him." Very strange and unwise claim.

[texaspackerbacker]

I haven't heard him make that claim.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev9kys-Tqy0
"I want to assure you if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get OSama bin Laden and bring him to justice. I can do that."

He says a line like this in every speech and TV appearance. I guess people must respond or he wouldn't keep saying it.

[Freak Out]

Bin Laden is not worth turning the world upside down for....his time will come.