Allen to Vikings... "is close to being in place"

[packers11]

The Minneapolis Star-Tribune is hearing that a deal between the Chiefs and Vikings involving Jared Allen "is close to being in place."

The Star-Trib cautions to "not get too excited yet," but the Vikings are thought to be in contract talks with Allen currently. It's a safe bet to project Allen's deal being worth more than $30 million in guarantees.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

[Lurker64]

It's important to not that about this time last year we were all convinced that "Rodgers for Moss is a done deal, details to come."

NFL GMs are very tight lipped this time of year and they often lie when prompted, and the media is whipped into a fervor by lack of football news and draft anticipation that they jump on any innuendo.

From what I've heard, Minnesota and KC are a ways apart on his trade value but we'll see.

[Tony Oday]

I dont see this happening

[The Leaper]

From what I've heard, Minnesota and KC are a ways apart on his trade value but we'll see.

The contract value is usually what deep sixes these deals...not what the teams are going to exchange. KC will hold out for as much as they can get, but ultimately they will unload Allen...and the Vikes seem to want him.

[packers11]

They franchised him and I think indeed they will unload him (like we did with c.williams)...

What a deal they get... Place the franchise tag on him and potentially get a 1st and 3rd back in return when he was probably going to leave next year anyway...

[b bulldog]

Minny's D will be very dominant. If they don't lose much in this trade in terms of any noteable starters along with the picks, Minny will still be my favorite in the North. If TJack can play at all, this team could challenge the Boys.

[packers11]

Minny's D will be very dominant. If they don't lose much in this trade in terms of any noteable starters along with the picks, Minny will still be my favorite in the North. If TJack can play at all, this team could challenge the Boys.

No way... T-Jacks is garbage and that offense is zippo without AP... They better prey he doesn't suffer any setbacks/injuries or that team is screwed...

As for that D, its average at best...

Allen will help the team, but in no way would put them over the top...

[POLISHHAWK]

Challenge the 'boys to what; lose in their 1st playoff game???

[Tony Oday]

AP was good because defenses didnt adjust to him until later...when they did that they held him easy. Jump Pass is terrible the only QB we have to worry about is Gus.

[packers11]

Challenge the 'boys to what; lose in their 1st playoff game???

:lol: great post...

[3irty1]

They will always find a way to lose.

[Rastak]

They will always find a way to lose.


How very true....

[woodbuck27]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3353557

Chiefs keeping options open with Pro Bowl end Allen

Associated Press

Updated: April 18, 2008, 5:51 PM ET

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- As improbable as it might have sounded at the end of last season when he led the NFL in sacks, the Kansas City Chiefs could be willing to part with All-Pro defensive end Jared Allen while he's in the prime of his career.

If the price is right for the 26-year-old Allen, the Chiefs could extract precious extra selections to use next week in what shapes up as one of the most crucial drafts in recent team history. Extra picks could greatly speed up coach Herman Edwards' rebuilding project for a team that lost its last nine games in 2007 and finished 4-12.

The Chiefs need offensive linemen and defensive backs, two position groups that scouts believe to be in abundance. The Chiefs have the No. 5 overall pick in the draft, and 10 selections altogether. If they could package a deal for a second choice in the first round and an extra second- or third-round pick, that might look very attractive.

The Chiefs have talked with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Minnesota Vikings about Allen. But general manager Carl Peterson refused on Friday to go any further.

"We're talking in speculation right now," Peterson said.

"At this particular point, nothing has been done or consummated."

Peterson's relationship with Allen has been strained ever since Peterson, in the wake of Allen's DUI convictions, described him as

"a young man at risk."

Allen, who could be suspended for a season if he has another alcohol-related episode, has said he would not negotiate with Kansas City if he doesn't get a contract done by next July.

After reaching an impasse, the Chiefs made Allen their franchise player on Feb. 7, but did not put the exclusive tag on him, as they did on tight end Tony Gonzalez when he was franchised in 2002.

That made it possible for Allen and his agent to talk with other clubs and be examined by their team doctors.

Kansas City would still be able to keep him by matching whatever offer he gets. If they decide not to match, they would get two first-round picks from the club that signs Allen, something no other club seems likely to go for. But another team could negotiate a deal with the Chiefs for compensation.

"Any team can bring him in, talk to him, measure him, physical him, write a contract. That's the option they have as a non-exclusive franchise player," Peterson said.

"If we wanted to prohibit Jared and his agent from having the opportunity to look to teams, we would have put the exclusive franchise tag on him. We didn't do that. In years past we have used the exclusive. So we'll see what happens. But to this point nothing has happened. If something does happen, we'll let you know. If it doesn't happen, we'll let you know."

Peterson declined to say what sort of offer might tempt him.

"I don't know at this point. I haven't seen any contract offer," he said.

Allen was suspended the first two games by the commissioner last season for multiple DUI convictions. But Allen says he has stopped drinking entirely, a claim backed up by close friends.

"I've seen Jared at a big party, out on the dance floor, where everybody is drinking except one person. It's Jared, and he's having the best time of everybody," said Chiefs fullback Boomer Grigsby.

The 6-foot-6, 270-pound Allen was drafted with a supplemental fourth-round pick out of Idaho State in 2004.

In addition to a league-leading 15½ sacks for 111 yards in losses, he had 67 tackles, three forced fumbles and 18 pressures. In his first game back from the suspension against the Vikings, he had nine tackles, two sacks, a pressure and a pass defended. He also forced Adrian Peterson to fumble.

Coming in on offense in goal line situations, he also caught a pair of one-yard touchdown passes. He was named a starter on the Pro Bowl.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

[Fritz]

"Peterson's relationship with Allen has been strained ever since Peterson, in the wake of Allen's DUI convictions, described him as

'a young man at risk.'

Allen, who could be suspended for a season if he has another alcohol-related episode, has said he would not negotiate with Kansas City if he doesn't get a contract done by next July."


This guy would fit right in up there in Minny. This may be the factor that puts the trade over the top and into reality.

[Rastak]

"Peterson's relationship with Allen has been strained ever since Peterson, in the wake of Allen's DUI convictions, described him as

'a young man at risk.'

Allen, who could be suspended for a season if he has another alcohol-related episode, has said he would not negotiate with Kansas City if he doesn't get a contract done by next July."


This guy would fit right in up there in Minny. This may be the factor that puts the trade over the top and into reality.

Heh, you guys and your Koren Robinson have no right to razz Viking fans.

:wink:


Anyway, my take is that it's probably worth the risk. Like Robinson though, the Vikings have gotten all kinds of testimony to the fact the guy doesn't drink anymore and is a decent guy. Doesn't mean crap though. if they dish a 1 and a 2 or a 1 and a 3 and shoot him 30 large garenteed they have to write in some recourse for recovering something or they shouldn't do the deal. If they can somewhat protect themselves then I'd say give him Freeney money and trade the picks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I doubt they'll be able to write in something to get the picks back. The money isn't the big deal if he regresses. The draft picks are.

He may turn out alright. That fact that he's kept his restaurant and bar in KC makes you wonder. You'd think he'd get rid of it after this happened.

[Brohm]

I wouldn't razz Minni about taking a shot with Allen and his past alcohol problems as we did the same with Robinson.

That being said, it was no risk to the Packers with Robinson, while KC is asking for a 1st and 3rd for Allen. HUGE difference there in risk. They could protect themselves with financial clauses but I don't think the picks could be protected, unless they set a new precedent for protecting picks. At least spring for a GPS ankle bracelet, a chauffer and a nanny. :P

[Rastak]

I doubt they'll be able to write in something to get the picks back. The money isn't the big deal if he regresses. The draft picks are.

He may turn out alright. That fact that he's kept his restaurant and bar in KC makes you wonder. You'd think he'd get rid of it after this happened.

Agree on both points. They probably are not getting picks back and I would have though he'd divest himslef of his interest in the place. Not a big deal if he's padi someone to run it for him.

Again, to me it's worth the risk but who knows? Peterson likes to play hardball and a 1 and a 2 is the absolute max I'd go.

[Iron Mike]

At least spring for a GPS ankle bracelet, a chauffer and a nanny. :P

You'd think they'd spring for a SCRAM:

http://www.alcoholmonitoring.com/

[Guiness]

Heh, you guys and your Koren Robinson have no right to razz Viking fans.

:wink:


I know this was in jest, but pretty big difference, IMO. We got Koren on the cheap - basically off the scrap heap. He was waivers or a street FA (can't remember which) and got a small contract.

Big difference from tossing a couple/few first day picks, and a large guaranteed contract. I'm assuming they'd at least put some clawback clause in there if he didn't behave off the field, but I don't know how smart the Vikings head office is these days :wink: :wink:

[Rastak]

Heh, you guys and your Koren Robinson have no right to razz Viking fans.

:wink:


I know this was in jest, but pretty big difference, IMO. We got Koren on the cheap - basically off the scrap heap. He was waivers or a street FA (can't remember which) and got a small contract.

Big difference from tossing a couple/few first day picks, and a large guaranteed contract. I'm assuming they'd at least put some clawback clause in there if he didn't behave off the field, but I don't know how smart the Vikings head office is these days :wink: :wink:

Yes, I was jesting Guiness. I agree the Robinson deal was risk free. You also get what you pay for. Robinson was a #4 reciever for your team. Allen led the league in sacks with over 15. You aren't gonna get Allen for the league minimum. It's a calculated risk for sure, one I'd be in favor of. You can hope a DE in the draft comes out and plays great but the odds are against it. You want to bump your defense up a notch immediately, this is what you have to do. I have a feeling the Cheifs may play hardball and it won't happen but I'll be watching the news wire.

[Partial]

I'm sure he'll stay outta trouble since he wants his payday.

[MJZiggy]

That's what they said about Koren before he got suspended for a year too.

[packers11]

That's what they said about Koren before he got suspended for a year too.

And Pacman... But Pacman is pretty hard to compare with anyone else... He will keep going to strip clubs even if he has to meet with the Roger goodell the next day... (Maybe he'd even have an invite for Roger as well?) :lol:

[motife]

The Vikings are reportedly looking at skipping a trade for Jared Allen, and just signing him after the draft, thereby relinquishing their 1st rd pick in 2009 and 2010. Which vs. a 1st and 2nd in 2008 is probably a wash.

Still, ouch!

That's VERY expensive.

I watched Jared Allen closely in the game against GB this year and he looked very ordinary to me. He's not Demarcus Ware. He's not even Aaron Kampman.

[Chevelle2]

The Vikings are reportedly looking at skipping a trade for Jared Allen, and just signing him after the draft, thereby relinquishing their 1st rd pick in 2009 and 2010. Which vs. a 1st and 2nd in 2008 is probably a wash.

Still, ouch!

That's VERY expensive.

I watched Jared Allen closely in the game against GB this year and he looked very ordinary to me. He's not Demarcus Ware. He's not even Aaron Kampman.

Link?

[motife]

Link?


http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/20/absent-trade-vikes-likely-to-sign-allen-after-draft/

[Lurker64]

The Vikings are reportedly looking at skipping a trade for Jared Allen, and just signing him after the draft, thereby relinquishing their 1st rd pick in 2009 and 2010. Which vs. a 1st and 2nd in 2008 is probably a wash.

Still, ouch!

That's VERY expensive.

If they do that, I believe KC has the right to match the offer. I wonder if Minnesota will deploy the dreaded "POISON PILL". It certainly went over well the last time they did that.

[Rastak]

The Vikings are reportedly looking at skipping a trade for Jared Allen, and just signing him after the draft, thereby relinquishing their 1st rd pick in 2009 and 2010. Which vs. a 1st and 2nd in 2008 is probably a wash.

Still, ouch!

That's VERY expensive.

If they do that, I believe KC has the right to match the offer. I wonder if Minnesota will deploy the dreaded "POISON PILL". It certainly went over well the last time they did that.

I kinda doubt it because as you said, "it went over so well". They could, however, use every cent they have left this year, which is quite a bit, and force KC to make cuts now to keep him. Given the fact they'd get 2 1st rounders, I would think they'd just take the picks and let him go. Really, two 1st rounders is awfully expensive, even for DE in his prime and taking into account his past.

[Scott Campbell]

I kinda doubt it because as you said, "it went over so well". They could, however, use every cent they have left this year, which is quite a bit, and force KC to make cuts now to keep him. Given the fact they'd get 2 1st rounders, I would think they'd just take the picks and let him go. Really, two 1st rounders is awfully expensive, even for DE in his prime and taking into account his past.


I think he's a very good player, but you're right. It seems pretty risky.

[DonHutson]

Vikings DE = Spinal Tap drummer

Best of luck, Jared. :twisted:

[Dabaddestbear]

This can end up not being a good deal here for the Vikings. Allen is OK, but I he will warrant 2 first round picks and plus a large contract. And even if they wait then who is to say that he will not find a bigger contract with someone else?

I think more time should be focused on getting a top WR in a trade(Berrian will not be the answer), a starting QB or a Solid CB. I just dont see the need for a DE on a line that was already pretty good with pressure.

[mngolf19]

This can end up not being a good deal here for the Vikings. Allen is OK, but I he will warrant 2 first round picks and plus a large contract. And even if they wait then who is to say that he will not find a bigger contract with someone else?

I think more time should be focused on getting a top WR in a trade(Berrian will not be the answer), a starting QB or a Solid CB. I just dont see the need for a DE on a line that was already pretty good with pressure.

Vikings problem last year was pressure on QB. Not nearly enough. This option is ok to me in that they likely would have to draft one in the 1st round otherwise and what happens with that? You get someone who only projects and costs both a 1st pick and lots of money. As least you are getting a young guy with some actual production to consider.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This can end up not being a good deal here for the Vikings. Allen is OK, but I he will warrant 2 first round picks and plus a large contract. And even if they wait then who is to say that he will not find a bigger contract with someone else?

I think more time should be focused on getting a top WR in a trade(Berrian will not be the answer), a starting QB or a Solid CB. I just dont see the need for a DE on a line that was already pretty good with pressure.

Vikings problem last year was pressure on QB. Not nearly enough. This option is ok to me in that they likely would have to draft one in the 1st round otherwise and what happens with that? You get someone who only projects and costs both a 1st pick and lots of money. As least you are getting a young guy with some actual production to consider.

Well, the 17 pick isn't going to get nearly what Allen would get. Last year, pick #17 got a 6yr/$14M deal. Allen would get, what, 6yr/$60M deal?

[Dabaddestbear]

This can end up not being a good deal here for the Vikings. Allen is OK, but I he will warrant 2 first round picks and plus a large contract. And even if they wait then who is to say that he will not find a bigger contract with someone else?

I think more time should be focused on getting a top WR in a trade(Berrian will not be the answer), a starting QB or a Solid CB. I just dont see the need for a DE on a line that was already pretty good with pressure.

Vikings problem last year was pressure on QB. Not nearly enough. This option is ok to me in that they likely would have to draft one in the 1st round otherwise and what happens with that? You get someone who only projects and costs both a 1st pick and lots of money. As least you are getting a young guy with some actual production to consider.
I understand what you saying, but I just see it as more of a risk with the money involved.

[red]

this is a done deal shefler is now reporting

from pft

ALLEN TO VIKES A DONE DEAL
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 10:42 p.m.

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Vikings have reached a contract agreement with defensive end Jared Allen and a trade agreement with the Kansas City Chiefs.

The deal will be finalized on Wednesday.

Allen was the NFL’s sack leader in 2007, despite missing two games due to a suspension. His first game was against the Vikings, and his performance was downright dominant.

[GoPackGo]

I like the move for the Vikings. Their D was dominant against the run. Now they added a key piece to upgrade the pass D. Look out

[HarveyWallbangers]

Moves like this are always cheered by the locals (for any team, not the Vikings specifically). It's like they won the Super Bowl. People around here were even excited about the Herschel Walker deal at the time it was made. More times than not they don't work out.

It will be interesting to see what they gave up in draft picks and how much money they'll pay for a guy who is one strike from a year-long suspension. Until I see that, it would be hard to say it's a good deal for the Vikings.

They are obviously desperate though. Spielman and Chilly are trying to save their jobs. Spielman even said earlier this offseason that some of their top starters are getting older, and they need to win now. Desperate teams make deals like this, and sign guys like Bernard Berrian to superstar contracts. Yet, they still have Tarvaris Jackson as their starting QB.

[packers11]

pft.com


The Vikings, according to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, surrendered their first-round pick in the 2008 draft and both third-round selections for Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen.

[packers11]

The Chiefs will now add the No. 17, No. 73, and No. 82 overall selections to the No. 5, No. 35, and No. 66 picks, giving them six selections among the first 100 picks

:shock: HOLY SH!!!!!!TTTTTT

[the_idle_threat]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

[packers11]

pft.com


VIKES BREAK THE BANK FOR ALLEN
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 11:48 p.m.
In addition to the three 2008 draft picks that the Minnesota Vikings gave up in order to acquire the rights to defensive end Jared Allen, the Vikes have made defensive end Jared Allen the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.

Per Jay Glazer of FOXSports.com, Allen will get a six-year, $74 million deal, with $31 million in guaranteed money.

Actually, the guarantee is $31,000,069. That’s right . . . “Wine ‘em, dine ‘em, 69 ‘em.”

The deal surpasses the deal paid a year ago by the Colts to defensive end Dwight Freeney, with $30 million guaranteed on a six-year, $72 million contract.

The risk that the Vikings are taking is huge, given Allen’s history with the whole glug-glug, vroom-vroom thing. But it’s apparent that the Vikings have done plenty of homework, and are comfortable that Allen’s drinking days are behind him.

[packrat]

At least that's three more times the Vikes don't have to worry about getting to the podium on time.

[woodbuck27]

The Chiefs will now add the No. 17, No. 73, and No. 82 overall selections to the No. 5, No. 35, and No. 66 picks, giving them six selections among the first 100 picks

:shock: HOLY SH!!!!!!TTTTTT

Looks like a win-win for the Chiefs.

1.All that fresh blood full of piss and vinegar. 2. They shed payroll in a re-building position.

The Vikings want to win now but look @ their QB situation. Just maybe, Vikings win the NFCN? They might even be favoured in Pre-season analysis but will they get it done? Game planning against them could neutralize Allen.

The Chiefs win long term if they hit on half of those picks.Again, look at the Vikings and their QB. Nice deal for the KC Chiefs.

[Dabaddestbear]

This is a a time I am glad I am not rooting for a team in the same division as the Chiefs.
This deal just gave them too much room and options in the draft.

[woodbuck27]

This is a a time I am glad I am not rooting for a team in the same division as the Chiefs.
This deal just gave them too much room and options in the draft.

Yup. Smart move for KC.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sounds like Viking fans are pretty positive about this move. I don't know. This deal could put their franchise back if it doesn't work out, and I'm not sure they are ready to win now. Not with the QB they have. Who knows though. Maybe he'll surprise people. I think many Vikes fans would have been okay with a rebuilding process done right--as long as they saw progress.

[Guiness]

BOMNF at 'glug-glug, vroom, vroom'!

[Lurker64]

This is a a time I am glad I am not rooting for a team in the same division as the Chiefs.
This deal just gave them too much room and options in the draft.

I think Kansas City has 13 picks at this point, and there's talk that they might trade down at #5 depending on that happens at 2, 3, and 4. That's pretty darn ridiculous, I have to say. 13 total picks including six in the first three rounds has the potential to generate an amazing turnaround for a franchise if they're used well.

You have to like this if you're a Chiefs fan.

[Rastak]

Sounds like Viking fans are pretty positive about this move. I don't know. This deal could put their franchise back if it doesn't work out, and I'm not sure they are ready to win now. Not with the QB they have. Who knows though. Maybe he'll surprise people. I think many Vikes fans would have been okay with a rebuilding process done right--as long as they saw progress.


Harv, my 2 cents. Big risk, but worth it. They got significatntly better on the DL, got a guy that's 26 years old. The three picks are expensive for sure but hardly franchise crippling. The second 3rd is something Denver practically gave them last year. Those future picks are really undervalued by NFL teams if you ask me. I was pretty surprised Denver threw in a 2008 3rd. 17th pick in the first is valuable, but blue chippers are usually gone so you still have some uncertainty as to how they'll work.

I look at it this way, going into this year they had some holes to fill. They needed a WR, S, DE, QB and maybe an OT. They signed Berrian at WR, Williams at Safety and used a 1 and two 3's to fill DE (a typcally hard one to fill). They still have their #2 for OT or anoither CB or WR. Ferrotte doesn't thrill me as a backup QB but they've addressed most of what needed addressing.

Not sure how the contract is structured but they have significant money available to them right now for sure.

[Rastak]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

He is pretty funny.

[Fritz]

Ras, you're smart and you're probably a handsome dude with a great job, but I still wouldn't want to be you. This is exactly the kind of high-risk move that tends to backfire on teams. It's hard for me to fathom how you can think giving up - what is it, a first and two thirds? - is not going to set that franchise back.

Allen is a risk, not just the drinking thing, but the injury possibility - you've given up three young players who would have been drafted early for one guy. He gets suspended or hurt, and you're screwed.

I also think the big contract will provide Allen with the cushion to relax a bit.

This is exactly the kind of move that goes against my nature. Risking your future for an iffy payoff now is bad managing, in my opinion. As a Packer fan, it bodes well. But again, just my opinion.

[red]

great move for KC, they might be able to get chris long now at #5.

IMO, bad move for the queens. they don't have the team to make this kind of move with the hopes that it puts them over the top. they have too many needs to be trading away a large chunk of their draft for one guy

plus, how can you give a guy that kind of money when he's one drink away from being suspended for a year?

[Scott Campbell]

I think its a good move for the Vikings. They've got a special talent in AP, but he won't be the cornerstone of franchise for 15 years. He's a RB, and their window of opportunity is relatively small. I think the situation dictated the bold move.

It better work out for them, because they placed a pretty big bet on him.

[Packnut]

Well, add this to the list of just plain dumb moves the Vikes have made. Ain't no player on this earth worth that much guarenteed cash. The injury factor alone should be enough to scare any team away from doing such a deal.

A quick rythem offense prevents any DE from being a major factor in a game. Ask Kampman about it. LOL! (Giants game)

It's pretty much a proven fact that in the NFL, winning depends a great deal on your QB. The Vikes have nothing in that dept and we all know it. Sure AP will carry them and they should make the play-offs as a wild card. But to win in Jan, you have to be able to throw the ball.

[run pMc]

Well, this improves the Vikings D: Allen is an upgrade over James or Udeze. Their D-Line will be a terror, and that will help their secondary. As for the offense, it doesn't do much. Giving up 3 picks is a pretty steep price. I think Allen will stay dry/sober (at least thru camp).

I don't know how close the Vikes are to being a Super Bowl contender, and in 3 years this might look really bad when their DLine gets old and if they are still looking for a QB. I think it's a risky move...time will tell.

they needed a pass rusher, and weren't going to get Harvey at 17. I wonder if they thought Groves would be gone too?

[Rastak]

Well, add this to the list of just plain dumb moves the Vikes have made. Ain't no player on this earth worth that much guarenteed cash. The injury factor alone should be enough to scare any team away from doing such a deal.

A quick rythem offense prevents any DE from being a major factor in a game. Ask Kampman about it. LOL! (Giants game)

It's pretty much a proven fact that in the NFL, winning depends a great deal on your QB. The Vikes have nothing in that dept and we all know it. Sure AP will carry them and they should make the play-offs as a wild card. But to win in Jan, you have to be able to throw the ball.



Guess again. Freeney set the bar, it only goes up and not down. How many times is it said, that contract is too much and then it's the norm.

Hutchinson's contract looked funny, but it's the standard going rate now.

Look at the coin Samuel got with Philly. It's the going rate.


As to the risk, yes it is risky given his past. But it's hardly mortgaing your future. Picking 17th they'd have traded what to get into the top 10 to get a top flight unproven DE? That's right, 1 and 2 3s. That was a glaring need and it's been addressed big time. The money is high but they have a large amount of cap room available right now. The risk is in the guys past, not the pciks or the money as much. They still have a first day pick this weekend and 5 second day picks, and they traded zero picks next year.

Just my take but I like the move. If he pulls a Koren Robinson I guess I'll start singing a new tune....LOL.

[Scott Campbell]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

He is pretty funny.


I liked his earlier "almost a Lawrence Welk" trade reference - a one, and a two, and a three.


:lol:

[Chester Marcol]

It will take time but this will help support either the fans of TT's approach of building through the draft or those who are screaming for TT to make such a move. I just don't think you give up that much in ways of quality draft picks and expect that you won't feel it in a couple years.

As far as what it would have costs to move up to get one of the top rated DE's, that would have been equally as silly of a move. We picked 16th last year and I don't think you trade Harrell, Jones, and Rouse for one player.

[Packnut]

Well, add this to the list of just plain dumb moves the Vikes have made. Ain't no player on this earth worth that much guarenteed cash. The injury factor alone should be enough to scare any team away from doing such a deal.

A quick rythem offense prevents any DE from being a major factor in a game. Ask Kampman about it. LOL! (Giants game)

It's pretty much a proven fact that in the NFL, winning depends a great deal on your QB. The Vikes have nothing in that dept and we all know it. Sure AP will carry them and they should make the play-offs as a wild card. But to win in Jan, you have to be able to throw the ball.



Guess again. Freeney set the bar, it only goes up and not down. How many times is it said, that contract is too much and then it's the norm.

Hutchinson's contract looked funny, but it's the standard going rate now.

Look at the coin Samuel got with Philly. It's the going rate.


As to the risk, yes it is risky given his past. But it's hardly mortgaing your future. Picking 17th they'd have traded what to get into the top 10 to get a top flight unproven DE? That's right, 1 and 2 3s. That was a glaring need and it's been addressed big time. The money is high but they have a large amount of cap room available right now. The risk is in the guys past, not the pciks or the money as much. They still have a first day pick this weekend and 5 second day picks, and they traded zero picks next year.

Just my take but I like the move. If he pulls a Koren Robinson I guess I'll start singing a new tune....LOL.


31 million in guarenteed cash???????????????????

That's just freakin ridiculous. Like I said, the injury factor in the NFL is just to severe to warrant giving up that much money.

As far as the draft picks go, I don't value them as much as others when your trading them for a proven player. The draft is a risky proposition at best. Just from a trade value aspect, I believe both teams got equal value at this point.

My problem is what happens if God forbid, he blows a knee out or has some other severe injury? It happens all the time. That is just to much guarenteed cash to risk.

[red]

they also swapped 6th round picks, the chiefs moved up 5 whole spots

obviously this was the major sticking point of the trade

[The Leaper]

I think this is a good move for the Vikings myself. Chances are good that AP is a guy who might only have 4-5 years in him, so loading up while you have a player of that caliber to build around seems smart IMO.

I agree that this will probably send the Vikings into a tailspin 3-5 years down the road...but short-term, the deal makes a lot of sense if Allen stays healthy and out of trouble.

[Scott Campbell]

31 million in guarenteed cash???????????????????

That's just freakin ridiculous. Like I said, the injury factor in the NFL is just to severe to warrant giving up that much money.


The top pick in this draft is getting almost the same guaranteed cash. A guy that hasn't played one down in the NFL. This ain't your father's NFL anymore. The Packers have deftly avoided this kind of contract thus far, but their day will come too.

[Rastak]

they also swapped 6th round picks, the chiefs moved up 5 whole spots

obviously this was the major sticking point of the trade


Actually the Vikes moved up, not KC. Ask TT how important 5 spots is in the 6th! :wink:


Oops, you are correct....it was misreported last night.....oh oh, now they are doomed!

[GoPackGo]

I would have been Ok with the Packers doing this trade. Allen is 27 years old and led the NFL in sacks last year. Draft picks are gambles too.

[Packnut]

31 million in guarenteed cash???????????????????

That's just freakin ridiculous. Like I said, the injury factor in the NFL is just to severe to warrant giving up that much money.


The top pick in this draft is getting almost the same guaranteed cash. A guy that hasn't played one down in the NFL. This ain't your father's NFL anymore. The Packers have deftly avoided this kind of contract thus far, but their day will come too.

The difference is that IF you have a top 5 pick in the draft, your forced to pay the guarenteed cash. This is just a by-product of a very screwed up system.

In the Viking's case, they chose to pay that much cash.

Also, the majority of the time, the rookie getting that much money plays a position that has more value i.e. a RB or QB.

I just don't see how DE is in that same game changing category. You can scheme to stop pass rushing DE's by doing a wide variety of things. Now, in the Viking's case, having a solid interior will help, but both those guys are more of a run stopping force than any impact they have pressuring the QB.

You can double the stud DE and force the other guys to beat you. Not to mention having a very good tackle can negate a DE's ability like we saw in the Pack/KC game.

When you factor the above in with the injury risk, this just is'nt the holy grail of deals that it's made out to be.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, draft day will be fun:

The Packers will have made 6 picks by the time the Vikings make their 3rd pick.


Round 1, Pick 30 (30)
Round 2, Pick 25 (56)
Round 2, Pick 29 (60)
Round 3, Pick 28 (91)
Round 4, Pick 29 (128)
Round 4, Pick 36 (135)


Round 2, Pick 16 (47)
Round 4, Pick 18 (117)

It's not destined to fail, but giving up a 1st and two 3rds and $31M guaranteed for a guy who is one strike away from a one-year suspension is a huge risk. Basically, they gave that much for an Aaron Kampman with character issues.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's better to draft Aaron Kampman than be forced to trade for Aaron Kampman because of your inability to draft two solid DEs.

[red]

they also swapped 6th round picks, the chiefs moved up 5 whole spots

obviously this was the major sticking point of the trade


Actually the Vikes moved up, not KC. Ask TT how important 5 spots is in the 6th! :wink:


Oops, you are correct....it was misreported last night.....oh oh, now they are doomed!

yup just remember how important those 5 spots are lol

[MadtownPacker]

As far as what it would have costs to move up to get one of the top rated DE's, that would have been equally as silly of a move. We picked 16th last year and I don't think you trade Harrell, Jones, and Rouse for one player.Thats a great comparison. When you look at it like that you have to wonder about the future.

The vikings season hinges on the offense anyways. The D was decent enough to win with last year. Rodgers will be tested for sure on Monday night in week 1.

[Rastak]

Well, draft day will be fun:

The Packers will have made 6 picks by the time the Vikings make their 3rd pick.


Round 1, Pick 30 (30)
Round 2, Pick 25 (56)
Round 2, Pick 29 (60)
Round 3, Pick 28 (91)
Round 4, Pick 29 (128)
Round 4, Pick 36 (135)


Round 2, Pick 16 (47)
Round 4, Pick 18 (117)

It's not destined to fail, but giving up a 1st and two 3rds and $31M guaranteed for a guy who is one strike away from a one-year suspension is a huge risk. Basically, they gave that much for an Aaron Kampman with character issues.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's better to draft Aaron Kampman than be forced to trade for Aaron Kampman because of your inability to draft two solid DEs.


LOL, so that makes your draft day "fun"?

[red]

i think the main reason the queens panicked and made such a move is because they just couldn't wait around any longer for us to release a DE

[LL2]

i think the main reason the queens panicked and made such a move is because they just couldn't wait around any longer for us to release a DE

We have one the Vikes want?

We need some Packers in Minny to help Allen find a few favorite watering holes.

[Scott Campbell]

Well, draft day will be fun:

The Packers will have made 6 picks by the time the Vikings make their 3rd pick.


Round 1, Pick 30 (30)
Round 2, Pick 25 (56)
Round 2, Pick 29 (60)
Round 3, Pick 28 (91)
Round 4, Pick 29 (128)
Round 4, Pick 36 (135)


Round 2, Pick 16 (47)
Round 4, Pick 18 (117)

It's not destined to fail, but giving up a 1st and two 3rds and $31M guaranteed for a guy who is one strike away from a one-year suspension is a huge risk. Basically, they gave that much for an Aaron Kampman with character issues.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's better to draft Aaron Kampman than be forced to trade for Aaron Kampman because of your inability to draft two solid DEs.


LOL, so that makes your draft day "fun"?


Exactly. That's what makes Christmas fun too.

:D

[Scott Campbell]

31 million in guarenteed cash???????????????????

That's just freakin ridiculous. Like I said, the injury factor in the NFL is just to severe to warrant giving up that much money.


The top pick in this draft is getting almost the same guaranteed cash. A guy that hasn't played one down in the NFL. This ain't your father's NFL anymore. The Packers have deftly avoided this kind of contract thus far, but their day will come too.

The difference is that IF you have a top 5 pick in the draft, your forced to pay the guarenteed cash. This is just a by-product of a very screwed up system.

In the Viking's case, they chose to pay that much cash.



Forced or not, these kinds of guarantees will become more and more common. I'd much rather use it on a young vet.

I also think that DE's can be big time game changers. It's a premier position in the NFL.

I typically subscribe to TT's brand of conservatism with regards to cap management, the draft and free agency. But if I had an AP or Barry Sanders on my roster, I'd be damn tempted to throw it all away and go for instant gratification the way the Vikings are. AP is a once in a decade talent, and he'll be washed up before we know it. They need to win now.

[Chester Marcol]

I think the Vikings really believe that the Packers success was only because of Favre. I think they are trying to sieze the moment in the wake of Favre retiring pinning their hopes that TT hasn't put together a pretty good team regardless of Favre being here or not.

I think the Vikings will feel pretty silly giving up so much to finish in 2nd place in the division. Although I'm not sure what role Childress has in player acquisitions, let's not forget he is most likely entering his last year to do something or be shown the door. If he has a lot of pull, this is exactly the short sited move you'd expect someone under the gun to make.

[motife]

This is the Vikings biggest trade since Herschel Walker, which sent Dallas to the Super Bowl and the Vikings to the dumpster.

WHY is Aaron Rodgers wearing #12? WHY haven't the Packers retired that number, worn by the GREAT Lynn Dickey??

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, draft day will be fun:

The Packers will have made 6 picks by the time the Vikings make their 3rd pick.


Round 1, Pick 30 (30)
Round 2, Pick 25 (56)
Round 2, Pick 29 (60)
Round 3, Pick 28 (91)
Round 4, Pick 29 (128)
Round 4, Pick 36 (135)


Round 2, Pick 16 (47)
Round 4, Pick 18 (117)

It's not destined to fail, but giving up a 1st and two 3rds and $31M guaranteed for a guy who is one strike away from a one-year suspension is a huge risk. Basically, they gave that much for an Aaron Kampman with character issues.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's better to draft Aaron Kampman than be forced to trade for Aaron Kampman because of your inability to draft two solid DEs.

LOL, so that makes your draft day "fun"?

Why not? It's better than the Vikings have the 6 and the Pack being short on them. When I'm driving around listening to KFAN, they might devote less time on the Vikings.

[hoosier]

As far as what it would have costs to move up to get one of the top rated DE's, that would have been equally as silly of a move. We picked 16th last year and I don't think you trade Harrell, Jones, and Rouse for one player.Thats a great comparison. When you look at it like that you have to wonder about the future.

Interesting comparison but it also assumes that the Vikings would have been capable of using their 2 and their two 3s wisely. Something tells me they wouldn't have gotten a Harrell, a Jones and a Rouse out of those three picks. Hell, the Packers wouldn't always get that.

[Rastak]

Well, draft day will be fun:

The Packers will have made 6 picks by the time the Vikings make their 3rd pick.


Round 1, Pick 30 (30)
Round 2, Pick 25 (56)
Round 2, Pick 29 (60)
Round 3, Pick 28 (91)
Round 4, Pick 29 (128)
Round 4, Pick 36 (135)


Round 2, Pick 16 (47)
Round 4, Pick 18 (117)

It's not destined to fail, but giving up a 1st and two 3rds and $31M guaranteed for a guy who is one strike away from a one-year suspension is a huge risk. Basically, they gave that much for an Aaron Kampman with character issues.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's better to draft Aaron Kampman than be forced to trade for Aaron Kampman because of your inability to draft two solid DEs.

LOL, so that makes your draft day "fun"?

Why not? It's better than the Vikings have the 6 and the Pack being short on them. When I'm driving around listening to KFAN, they might devote less time on the Vikings.


Well, I might ask why you drive around listening to the Vikings flagship station in the first place!

:wink:

[red]

This is the Vikings biggest trade since Herschel Walker, which sent Dallas to the Super Bowl and the Vikings to the dumpster.



good point, this could be the boom or bust for the Minnesota vikings

he could save the team and help get them their new stadium that they need. or he'll sink them like the walker trade did. and that might be the final nail in minnesotas nfl coffin

[motife]

btw, the Packers had NO problem in pass blocking with Jared Allen this year when they played KC.

He's a very ordinary player, in my opinion.

[Tarlam!]

I hope this works out. I haven't loathed the Vikings since the "Culpepper to Moss" days, which I really miss, actually.

I want us to win the N-North, obviously, but, I want the other 3 teams to be capable, at least. That makes the victory so much more gratifying.

BTW, AP still scares me to fuckin' death!

[GoPackGo]

btw, the Packers had NO problem in pass blocking with Jared Allen this year when they played KC.

He's a very ordinary player, in my opinion.

the cowboys didn't have any problems pass blocking Kampman either. Do you think he's an ordinary player?

[Bossman641]

That Viking front 4 is gonna be terrifying. Who do you double when you have the Williams brothers and Allen lined up side by side? Still not sure about their offense at all and how far they can take that team, but I actually like the move for the Vikings. Will this lead to another offseason of the Vikings being crowned the paper champs?

[Scott Campbell]

Why not? It's better than the Vikings have the 6 and the Pack being short on them. When I'm driving around listening to KFAN, they might devote less time on the Vikings.


Well, I might ask why you drive around listening to the Vikings flagship station in the first place!

:wink:


Probably for the same reason our GI's in Asia listened to Tokyo Rose during WWII. Or, maybe Harv is a spy.

[Lurker64]

This is a risky move for the Vikings, not necessarily a bad one, just a risky one. Here's what would worry me if was a Vikings fan:

1) There still exists a need at DE. Last year they needed a pass-rushing DE with Udeze doing a decent job as a run-stopping DE. They probably don't have Udeze this year, Erasmus James is a never-was-and-never-will-be, and none of the other guys they have are particularly spectacular, even if Allen is a good player.

2) There seems to be an odd tension on the Vikings team which has some aging top flight talent and some young players that the world is waiting on. Pat Williams, who's the key to the DL, is 35. Matt Birk who's key to the OL is 31 and on a contract year. Sharper is 32. It seems like this ought to be a win-now move while they still have Fat Pat on the DL, but there are enough question marks elsewhere on the roster that I wouldn't be sure Minnesota wouldn't be better off with three first day picks instead of Allen. They still need a DE, QB with eventual starting potential, the right side of an OL (maybe more considering the potential pending suspension of McKinnie), a WR (Berrian, Rice, and Wade aren't embarassing but the cupboard is bare after those guys), and likely a CB. Not to mention guys to eventually groom into replacements for their aging stars. I'm not convinced that Minnesota wouldn't be a better team this year and years to come with the three first day picks they gave up. The trade just seems to teeter tenuously on the "mortgaging the future" level.

3) Allen is a suspension risk. He's one saturday night away from missing a year. That has to make you worry if you're giving up 30m and 3 first day picks.

It's not necessarily a bad move, but it's a risky one. I almost think that if I were the GM and was confident in my squad I'd almost rather give up first round picks in 2009 and 2010 than what Minnesota traded. If you are confident that Allen will "put you over the top", 17 and the two thirds they gave up grade out to about the same as two late first round picks (26-27ish). You'd get this whole draft plus Allen to try to put you over the top this year and get into the playoffs and win a game putting you drafting late in the first and then you try to do it again next year.

It might be a great trade, but if I were a purple fan I would be a little uncomfortable. I know if my squad had just completed this trade, I would be excited but a little worried since this could be really bad if it doesn't work out well.[/i]

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, I might ask why you drive around listening to the Vikings flagship station in the first place!

What should I listen to, MPR? I like sports. I live in Minnesota. I don't have a lot of choices. At least, I can get the Packers and Brewers games on 106.3 FM.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is a risky move for the Vikings, not necessarily a bad one, just a risky one. Here's what would worry me if was a Vikings fan:

1) There still exists a need at DE. Last year they needed a pass-rushing DE with Udeze doing a decent job as a run-stopping DE. They probably don't have Udeze this year, Erasmus James is a never-was-and-never-will-be, and none of the other guys they have are particularly spectacular, even if Allen is a good player.

2) There seems to be an odd tension on the Vikings team which has some aging top flight talent and some young players that the world is waiting on. Pat Williams, who's the key to the DL, is 35. Matt Birk who's key to the OL is 31 and on a contract year. Sharper is 32. It seems like this ought to be a win-now move while they still have Fat Pat on the DL, but there are enough question marks elsewhere on the roster that I wouldn't be sure Minnesota wouldn't be better off with three first day picks instead of Allen. They still need a DE, QB with eventual starting potential, the right side of an OL (maybe more considering the potential pending suspension of McKinnie), a WR (Berrian, Rice, and Wade aren't embarassing but the cupboard is bare after those guys), and likely a CB. Not to mention guys to eventually groom into replacements for their aging stars. I'm not convinced that Minnesota wouldn't be a better team this year and years to come with the three first day picks they gave up. The trade just seems to teeter tenuously on the "mortgaging the future" level.

3) Allen is a suspension risk. He's one saturday night away from missing a year. That has to make you worry if you're giving up 30m and 3 first day picks.

It's not necessarily a bad move, but it's a risky one. I almost think that if I were the GM and was confident in my squad I'd almost rather give up first round picks in 2009 and 2010 than what Minnesota traded. If you are confident that Allen will "put you over the top", 17 and the two thirds they gave up grade out to about the same as two late first round picks (26-27ish). You'd get this whole draft plus Allen to try to put you over the top this year and get into the playoffs and win a game putting you drafting late in the first and then you try to do it again next year.

It might be a great trade, but if I were a purple fan I would be a little uncomfortable. I know if my squad had just completed this trade, I would be excited but a little worried since this could be really bad if it doesn't work out well.[/i]

Great points. My Vikings fan co-worker--who tends to keep an even keel--thinks the move is risky for the Vikings and he's not sure he likes it. He's one of the few in this market that feel that way. Here was my response to him.


You have a reasoned view of this deal. I'm not sure others share your view.

Trading a 1st, 3rd, and 3rd for a very good, young DE isn't a bad move, IMHO. I don't like wasting draft picks because that's how you build a team, but the odds are Allen will give you more than those 3 picks. However, there's no guarantee that he will. You are giving up the chance to draft 3 good players--even though the odds say you won't. For a team that has struggled to evaluate DE talent, it's a good move if you stop there. I think Allen is really good, but he's not Reggie White. He's more like Aaron Kampman. I think his pass rush abilities might even be better than Kampman, but he's not as good against the run. He's at least a solid player, and he could be coming into his own as a dominant force, but there's also a chance that he was making a contract run last year and that he'll settle into his career norms of around 10 sacks/year.

Now, here's where it gets dicey. The Vikes also had to give him $31M guaranteed. Maybe that's not a big deal, but fans shouldn't kid themselves. The cap isn't going to go up every year, and no matter what you do, if you continue to throw money around like it's nothing, you'll find yourself in a bind regarding the cap. The other monkey wrench is that he's one mistake from a year-long suspension.

Like you said, I think if I thought this would move would buy them a title, I'd think more of it. I'm not sure it does. I do think Chilly and Spielman are desperate to make a move this year. Otherwise, they are probably gone. I'm sure they feel the Packers can be had. This move makes a division title a necessity or the year was a bust. Which makes it harder to understand what they are doing at QB.

I know some fans are impatient, but I got the feeling that Vikings fans would have been okay with a slow rebuilding process... building through the draft... building the corps of a team that can compete every year. I think fans saw that the team had a good draft last year and, as long as they were taking steps forward, their fan base would have been okay with that. All the fans really wanted was a secondary option at QB. Jackson likely makes or breaks this team, Chilly's future, and the future of the team for the next several years. They threw away the 2005 draft and throwing away another draft would be very detrimental to the team.

The reward though is a division title and potential strong run in the playoffs, if their QB is ready to lead them on that run.

[Guiness]

Yes, risky, and I'm not sure what they think the reward is going to be.

The Vikes are not one (or even two) players away. They're a solid team, with a good mix of some young talent and good vets who are holding up, but not a contending team - they didn't even make the playoffs last year.

A good draft might've changed that, with a few contributing rookies. What they got instead was a known (albeit good) quantity, and IMO it isn't enough. So they improve a little, maybe make the playoffs, and get a couple of first round exits and pffft.

[Scott Campbell]

The Vikes are not one (or even two) players away.


I don't think I agree with that. They look like paper tigers to me at this point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they get picked by many of the experts to win the division. That'd be ok I guess, as it would take the target off our backs.

A great D, combined with a great grind it out running game could be a lethal combo - even without a decent passing game.

[Zool]

The Vikes are not one (or even two) players away.


I don't think I agree with that. They look like paper tigers to me at this point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they get picked by many of the experts to win the division. That'd be ok I guess, as it would take the target off our backs.

A great D, combined with a great grind it out running game could be a lethal combo - even without a decent passing game.

10 years ago I would agree with you Scooter, but not today.

[DonHutson]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

The better question might be: what do Jared Allen and Herschel Walker have in common?

[Rastak]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

The better question might be: what do Jared Allen and Herschel Walker have in common?

I'll take that one. Nothing. One was traded for many first day picks including multiple 1st round picks over years and one was traded for 1 first day pick (1st round) and 2 second day picks all in the same year.


That about right Don?

[DonHutson]

I'll take that one. Nothing. One was traded for many first day picks including multiple 1st round picks over years and one was traded for 1 first day pick (1st round) and 2 second day picks all in the same year.


That about right Don?

I guess by that comparison, any trade Minnesota makes looks good.

I was going for: the Vikings put too many eggs in one basket for each when they were more than one player away from winning anything important, and the recipient of the picks has an opportunity to build a winner at the Vikes expense.

Of course we won't know for awhile whether the Chiefs benefit, but I'd be surprised if the Vikes come out ahead in the end.

[3irty1]

This does not tell me that the Vikings are in win-now-mode, this move tells me that the Vikings are not to confident in the draft (or their ability to draft).

Jason Taylor would have been a great short-term upgrade and would have come much cheaper.

Harvey said it best that Allen is more like Kampman, an effort guy. Only he's two years younger. Of course Kampman has things Allen probably won't ever have like responsibility, team loyalty, coach-like smarts, and an NFC North title. :)

[Scott Campbell]

What do Carl Eller and Jared Allen have in common?

Okay, what else do they have in common? As of Wednesday, both will have been members of the Minnesota Vikings.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Florio may be an obnoxious prick, but he can be damned funny sometimes.

The better question might be: what do Jared Allen and Herschel Walker have in common?

I'll take that one. Nothing. One was traded for many first day picks including multiple 1st round picks over years and one was traded for 1 first day pick (1st round) and 2 second day picks all in the same year.


That about right Don?


Not really apples to apples Ras. 3rd rounders were first day picks when the Walker deal went down.

[Rastak]

I was hoping you'd miss that Scott......LOL.


My point remains the same.

[b bulldog]

If I was a Vikings fan I'd be very happy and also a tad nervous. Allen could be the DMVP or he could get suspended for an entire year with another mishap. One thing is for sure, the entire NFL saw what a dominant Dline can do and as of now, the Vikings may have the best Dline in football.

[Scott Campbell]

I was hoping you'd miss that Scott......LOL.


My point remains the same.



Ha! Fat chance.

Listen, if this thing works out for you, things will be great. If it doesn't work out, they'll be calling this "Herschel Part 2", and there's no way out of the comparison. In the absolute worst case scenario, this becomes both "Herschel Part 2" and "K-Rob Part 2".


I'd be interested in hearing about what kind of due diligence they did on his drinking issue. I can't see making this move without being pretty comfortable that he was through with his booze issues.

[DonHutson]

In the absolute worst case scenario, this becomes both "Walker Part 2" and "K-Rob Part 2".

A worse case would be he's falls asleep drunk at the wheel of the party barge, spilling a slick of lube and pasty white Minnesota hookers all over the lake.

Then it's Walker/Party Boat/Exxon Valdez Part II.

[Scott Campbell]

In the absolute worst case scenario, this becomes both "Walker Part 2" and "K-Rob Part 2".

A worse case would be he's falls asleep drunk at the wheel of the party barge, spilling a slick of lube and pasty white Minnesota hookers all over the lake.

Then it's Walker/Party Boat/Exxon Valdez Part II.


And yet even worse if these hookers were interested in buying Chilly's allotment of Superbowl tix.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From ESPN. It's fair. It's a tossup at this point. It may come down to ARod vs. T-Jack.


Can the Vikings catch the Packers?
Bill Williamson

The gap between the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings has lessened considerably this offseason.

First, the Packers -- who won the NFC North with a 13-3 record and were five games ahead of the second-place Vikings in 2007 -- lost legendary quarterback Brett Favre to retirement. Then, Tuesday night, the Vikings traded for Pro Bowl defensive end Jared Allen, who led the NFL in sacks last season with 15.5.

Those are two major transactions that could slide the NFC North power scale closer to the Vikings' side. Yes, the Packers have a good, young roster, and they believe in Favre's replacement, Aaron Rodgers. But anytime a team loses a legendary quarterback, there is a period of adjustment.

Allen makes the Vikings a very strong team. He completes the best defensive line in the league. Add a strong defense and star running back Adrian Peterson, who became a superstar as a rookie in 2007, and the Vikings are contenders. The loss of Favre and the addition of Allen may not swing the division all the way in Minnesota's favor, but there's definitely a new landscape in the NFC North.

Another blurb from that blog:


"More than that, though, the Chiefs also bluntly felt as if Allen, while a good player, was not indispensable. When I asked one Chiefs official how the Chiefs possibly could get better without the NFL's sack leader, he asked back: "How many of those sacks were in the fourth quarter?"

The correct answer to that is zero. When asked what this was supposed to mean -- after all, the Chiefs were trailing an awful lot in the fourth quarter, and sack opportunities were rare -- the official shrugged and said, "I'm just saying. Zero."

For the record, KC won 4 games, were ahead or tied in the 4th quarter in 3 games, and were within 7 points with 6 minutes left in 4 games. It's not like they were getting blown out every game. Until 6 minutes left, they were ahead, tied, or within 7 points in 11 of their 16 games. It's not like they were getting blown out in most games and teams were exclusively running the ball late.

Two other things. I think his career high was 11 sacks before his contract year last year and Chad Clifton did a great job against him. He allowed 1 pressure and got minimal help--according to Bob McGinn.

[red]

so thats the same guy saying both those things?

that this trade and the addition of one single player could turn a bad team to a good team and swing the nfc north. but he then says the guy doesn't much much of a difference?

[HarveyWallbangers]

so thats the same guy saying both those things?

that this trade and the addition of one single player could turn a bad team to a good team and swing the nfc north. but he then says the guy doesn't much much of a difference?

No. It was on a blog by several different ESPN writers. Not sure who wrote that entry. You can find it on ESPN.com. The quote is from a Chiefs official, so take it for what it's worth.

[Scott Campbell]

VIKES BUILD SOME PROTECTION INTO ALLEN DEAL
Posted by Mike Florio on April 23, 2008, 5:04 p.m.

As we noted last week when the talk of a Jared Allen trade first surfaced, any team acquiring Allen’s rights will be taking a huge risk. With two DUIs in 2006, which prompted a two-game suspension in 2007, Allen is a mimosa binge away from facing a serious suspension, and possibly some real jail time.

The problem is that the 2006 amendments to the Collective Bargaining Agreement prevent teams from attempting to recapture significant chunks of bonus money in the event of a player default. Instead, teams may only target a portion of the signing bonus proration for the year in which, for example, a suspension is imposed.

The Vikings addressed this problem by pushing half of the guaranteed money into 2009 and 2010, and by making the guarantee applicable to injury only, for now.

Here are the numbers.

Allen receives a signing bonus of $15,500,069, and a base salary of $750,000 in 2008.

In 2009, he gets a base salary of $7.75 million. A whopping $7.5 million of that amount is guaranteed against injury only; as of the first day of the 2009 league year, it is guaranteed for skill, too.

In 2010, Allen will receive a base salary of $6.38 million and a roster bonus of $8 million. The roster bonus is guaranteed for injury only; it becomes guaranteed for skill as of the first day of the 2009 league year.

Allen’s base salaries for 2011, 2012, and 2013 and $8,979,438, $11,619,850, and $14,280,612, respectively.

Allen will receive more than $38 million over the first three years of the deal. However, if he gets into any trouble before March 2009, the team can cut the cord, avoiding $15.5 million in guaranteed payments.

The total value? $73,260,069.

[b bulldog]

Potentially a great D along with AP makes them my favorite in the North. We still have no passrush other than Kampy.

[Bretsky]

Potentially a great D along with AP makes them my favorite in the North. We still have no passrush other than Kampy.


We have KGB

After that we probably traded our next best rusher to Cleveland

Maybe Harrell will step up

[Lurker64]

Potentially a great D along with AP makes them my favorite in the North. We still have no passrush other than Kampy.

The Vikes have no pass rush other than Allen, though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Potentially a great D along with AP makes them my favorite in the North. We still have no passrush other than Kampy.

The Vikes have no pass rush other than Allen, though.

Not according the closet Vikings fan. He probably thinks the Williams Sisters are a great pass rush tandem.

[Patler]

btw, the Packers had NO problem in pass blocking with Jared Allen this year when they played KC.

He's a very ordinary player, in my opinion.

the cowboys didn't have any problems pass blocking Kampman either. Do you think he's an ordinary player?

Kampman had no sacks but 3 QB hits in 30 passing plays by the Cowboys.
Allen had one-half sack and 0 QB hits in 35 passing plays by the Packers.

I think Cowboys had more trouble with Kampman than the Packers did with Allen.

[Iron Mike]

Two other things. I think his career high was 11 sacks before his contract year last year and Chad Clifton did a great job against him. He allowed 1 pressure and got minimal help--according to Bob McGinn.

Here's the KC Chiefs 2007 schedule:

09/09/07 at Houston Texans 12:00 PM CBS
09/16/07 at Chicago Bears 3:15 PM CBS
09/23/07 Minnesota Vikings 12:00 PM FOX
09/30/07 at San Diego Chargers 3:15 PM CBS
10/07/07 Jacksonville Jaguars 12:00 PM CBS
10/14/07 Cincinnati Bengals 12:00 PM CBS
10/21/07 at Oakland Raiders 3:05 PM CBS
10/28/07 Bye week
11/04/07 Green Bay Packers 12:00 PM FOX
11/11/07 Denver Broncos 12:00 PM CBS
11/18/07 at Indianapolis Colts 12:00 PM CBS
11/25/07 Oakland Raiders 12:00 PM CBS
12/02/07 San Diego Chargers 12:00 PM CBS
12/09/07 at Denver Broncos 3:15 PM CBS
12/16/07 Tennessee Titans 12:00 PM CBS
12/23/07 at Detroit Lions 12:00 PM CBS
12/30/07 at New York Jets 7:15 PM NBC

IMHO, there weren't a whole lot of stellar OL that he went up against to amass all of those sacks.

[Rastak]

btw, the Packers had NO problem in pass blocking with Jared Allen this year when they played KC.

He's a very ordinary player, in my opinion.

the cowboys didn't have any problems pass blocking Kampman either. Do you think he's an ordinary player?

Kampman had no sacks but 3 QB hits in 30 passing plays by the Cowboys.
Allen had one-half sack and 0 QB hits in 35 passing plays by the Packers.

I think Cowboys had more trouble with Kampman than the Packers did with Allen.


The dude certainly isn't Laurence Taylor but you might want to look at a larger sample of games.....

Allen (26 yo)
61 out of 64 possible games in 4 years with 43 sacks and 13 forced fumbles. He's pretty durable.


Kampman (28 yo)
(Who I also like) 87 games - 41 sacks over 6 years.

[Patler]

btw, the Packers had NO problem in pass blocking with Jared Allen this year when they played KC.

He's a very ordinary player, in my opinion.

the cowboys didn't have any problems pass blocking Kampman either. Do you think he's an ordinary player?

Kampman had no sacks but 3 QB hits in 30 passing plays by the Cowboys.
Allen had one-half sack and 0 QB hits in 35 passing plays by the Packers.

I think Cowboys had more trouble with Kampman than the Packers did with Allen.


The dude certainly isn't Laurence Taylor but you might want to look at a larger sample of games.....

Allen (26 yo)
61 out of 64 possible games in 4 years with 43 sacks and 13 forced fumbles. He's pretty durable.


Kampman (28 yo)
(Who I also like) 87 games - 41 sacks over 6 years.

I was simply responding to another person's post that drew a comparison based on those two games that were specifically identified. I thought the comparison of those two games was inaccurate, so I commented on those two games. I did not form any conclusion as to the players performances over their careers based on any number of games.

Personally, I think Allen is a more gifted pass rusher than Kampman, but sort of in the KGB mold, he gets a sack or nothing, and will get bunches of sacks against less talented lineman, but will be neutralized by the good linemen. Kampman may not get quite as many sacks, but consistently gets better pressure, even when he doesn't get sacks.

Just my opinion based on very little direct observation of Allen. However, I HATE that he will be a Viking! :lol: On their line he could become an absolute terror.

[red]

lets not forget that this team has picked up talent before and looks looked like they were getting better, but then those players playeddown to the vicking level, and they still were crap

he says he's looking forward to lots of championships in that uni. like what?

most beers drank by a team, nfl champs, 2009
most "hoes" slaped around, nfc champs 2010
largest orgy on watercraft, world champs 2008

[Chester Marcol]

As long as the Kampman comparisons are coming up, how about Allen's ability against the run? Is he more like Kampman or KGB in that regards? Teams already know that they most likely won't get much from running up the middle. How does this affect the edge of the DL against the run?

[Rastak]

As long as the Kampman comparisons are coming up, how about Allen's ability against the run? Is he more like Kampman or KGB in that regards? Teams already know that they most likely won't get much from running up the middle. How does this affect the edge of the DL against the run?


From what I've read he isn't a liability so you can play him every down but I would guess not as good as Kampman against the run. I read he had improved but wasn't exactly a run stopper.

[Zool]

I think the problem is that they gave up 3 picks plus a big contract to a risk guy. If it works out genius. If not, its only going to help us. No one ever accused the Viking front office of not taking chances.

Demetrius Underwood anyone?

[Rastak]

I think the problem is that they gave up 3 picks plus a big contract to a risk guy. If it works out genius. If not, its only going to help us. No one ever accused the Viking front office of not taking chances.

Demetrius Underwood anyone?


Come on Zool. That wasn't a taking a chance, that was someone not doing their homework. The dude was flat out nuts. Denny Green had all the power in the front office and he did no research.

You guys are kinda reaching for analogies here. I don't see too many valid comparisons on these two events. Drafting Pac man Jones was a similar excercise in stupidity only at the top of the first round in stead of the bottom like with Underwood.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Obviously, he's a good player. He's not Reggie White or even Michael Strahan in his prime, but he's comparable to Kampman. He's probably a little better pass rusher and likely a little worse run defender. There's huge risk though. The draft picks, the possible suspension, the contract. He's going to count close to $12M-15M against the cap every year after the first year. If you get a year or two when the cap doesn't go up, it could put the Vikings in a bind. Just because the cap has gone up a lot the last couple of years, doesn't mean it's something that should be ignored. If nothing else, his contract will keep them from signing other FAs.

[Rastak]

Obviously, he's a good player. He's not Reggie White or even Michael Strahan in his prime, but he's comparable to Kampman. He's probably a little better pass rusher and likely a little worse run defender. There's huge risk though. The draft picks, the possible suspension, the contract. He's going to count close to $12M-15M against the cap every year after the first year. If you get a year or two when the cap doesn't go up, it could put the Vikings in a bind. Just because the cap has gone up a lot the last couple of years, doesn't mean it's something that should be ignored. If nothing else, his contract will keep them from signing other FAs.


I'm pretty sure we've all established it is a risk. Knowing the football gods it will backfire, but it is a calculated risk. I am in support of it. Their other options sucked. Miami wants too much for Taylor and the rest of the group is either unproven rookies or also rans. This was a huge area of need. We'll see how it turns out.

[Zool]

I think the problem is that they gave up 3 picks plus a big contract to a risk guy. If it works out genius. If not, its only going to help us. No one ever accused the Viking front office of not taking chances.

Demetrius Underwood anyone?


Come on Zool. That wasn't a taking a chance, that was someone not doing their homework. The dude was flat out nuts. Denny Green had all the power in the front office and he did no research.

You guys are kinda reaching for analogies here. I don't see too many valid comparisons on these two events. Drafting Pac man Jones was a similar excercise in stupidity only at the top of the first round in stead of the bottom like with Underwood.

Fine then. Moss was a risk that panned out. Your boys are players in FA every year, but that hasn't seemed to help out much. The Underwood shot was just for funsies.

[Tarlam!]

Well, I still hope they are competitive and that we are a match for them. I liked winning over the Vikings better when they had Moss and Culpepper.

That AP still scares the crap outta me. I see us playing 8 in the box and daring them to pass. If their QB turns out to be anything at all, it will be two tough games a year. And that's without even mentioning this ne DE.

[Chester Marcol]

Their other options sucked.

I have to disagree. If one has patience, especially in a draft with as much depth as this years, the Vikes had plenty of options. They could have parlayed that 17th pick into a few more picks and perhaps a first rounder next year. Not to mention having 2 third rounders to play with.

I'm glad the person pulling the trigger on this deal is only close to Green Bay geographically. This trade is not just 3 picks and a lot of cash. A smart GM who didn't want to draft in the first round would have had several more picks this year and perhaps next year. That's why solid teams like the Patriots always seem to have an extra first rounder. From teams willing to chase rainbows.

I have good freinds who are Vikings fans that it wouldn't suck so bad if the Vikings did well. For them, I hope it works out. I just don't see it being more than a 1 or 2 year fix, especially without much depth on either OL or DL's.

[mngolf19]

Their other options sucked.

I have to disagree. If one has patience, especially in a draft with as much depth as this years, the Vikes had plenty of options. They could have parlayed that 17th pick into a few more picks and perhaps a first rounder next year. Not to mention having 2 third rounders to play with.

I'm glad the person pulling the trigger on this deal is only close to Green Bay geographically. This trade is not just 3 picks and a lot of cash. A smart GM who didn't want to draft in the first round would have had several more picks this year and perhaps next year. That's why solid teams like the Patriots always seem to have an extra first rounder. From teams willing to chase rainbows.

I have good freinds who are Vikings fans that it wouldn't suck so bad if the Vikings did well. For them, I hope it works out. I just don't see it being more than a 1 or 2 year fix, especially without much depth on either OL or DL's.

I'm almost positive the Vikes will draft OL with their 2nd rd pick this year. And their DL depth is not bad.

[b bulldog]

Harv, closet Vikings fan, pretty brilliant, even from someone like you :lol: I'd take the Williams bros over any tandem we have in the interior, even a homer like you that can't see reality must admit to that. I guess being realistic and honest in your eyes, makes me a Cowboys fan, Vikings fan, Pats fan ect. This year I'll take the Chargers and the Bolts in the SB so now I must be fans of them also and I can pretty much guarantee that I won't be the only person picking the Vikings to win the North this year.

[Bretsky]

No way would I put the Vikes as the favorite, but the recent trade undoubtedly makes them a threat. Stellar DL and OL along with a great back makes them scary. But........

Who is their starting QB again ? The better question might be do they have one on the roster.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv, closet Vikings fan, pretty brilliant, even from someone like you :lol: I'd take the Williams bros over any tandem we have in the interior, even a homer like you that can't see reality must admit to that. I guess being realistic and honest in your eyes, makes me a Cowboys fan, Vikings fan, Pats fan ect. This year I'll take the Chargers and the Bolts in the SB so now I must be fans of them also and I can pretty much guarantee that I won't be the only person picking the Vikings to win the North this year.

You've been shaking in your boots about the Vikings the last few years. The Williams Sisters (got that from Tony Richardson, he said that's what the Vikings players call them) are the best tandem in the league. What's your point? If I remember, you predicted the Vikings would be better than the Packers each of the last two seasons. You believe the hype about the Vikings every year. I'm going to wait until they actually do something before labeling them division champions. With all of this talent they've had in your mind (e.g. great DTs, Henderson better than Barnett, Greenway better than Hawk, Leber better than Poppinga, Sharper and Smith better then our safeties, Winfield better than our corners, etc.) how come their defense wasn't better than our defense (a defense you've degraded)?

San Fran added stud rookie Patrick Willis and supposed stud corner Nate Clements last year. They added safety Michael Lewis. They were supposed to be a lot better. Their defense was actually worse. You don't win on paper. These guys have to mesh and prove it on the field. I like some of the Vikings defensive talent (Williams sisters, Henderson, Leber). I think much of their talent has been slightly overrated (Sharper, Winfield in pass coverage, Greenway, Erasmus and Udeze before last year). The problem for me with the Vikings is that they are dependent on star players. You take one of the Williams "brothers" or Winfield or Henderson out of their lineup, and they have a dramatic drop-off. More than most teams. Maybe a lot of it is coaching, but they haven't fix that.

[b bulldog]

First of all, I never stated that Henderson was better than 56 but he is probably as good. Greenway and Hawk are a wash and Leber and Chillar is most likely a wash. As far as D's go, the Minny O was terrible and never could stay on the field and that obviously wears on a defense. Their QB play was horrible, no getting around that. Last season, we had a QB that did scare oppossing DC's, this year we may not. The big difference last season was the QB position, this year it still may be or it may not. The Vikings may have landed the best DE in the game at the moment and that will open up their interior guys even more. We have nobody that can generate a passrush other than Kampy, KGB can't consistently. This was painfully obvious after the Carolina game last season. Their talent on D may be overrated in your eyes, this year, now that they have a healthy, legit DE, we will get a chance to see. As for taking guys out of the lineup and not having big drop-offs, what would our D look like without Kampy, Harris, Woodson or Barnett?? This is called salary cap football buddy.

[Fritz]

I did some reading on ESPN.com and CBS Sports, and took in the Queens' fans comments posted on said sites...they are pretty much loudly and wholeheartedly writing the Vikings into the NFC Championship game right now.

I like Rastak - good guy - but I laugh at the reactions to this trade. No, it's not exactly like Herschel Walker - or John Hadl - but it's a little closer to Javon Walker to Denver for a second. How'd that work out for Denver? 'Cept in this case, it's drunk driving not an injury, and it's not a second it's two thirds and a first.

I think McCarthy has to worry it out - gameplanning will be tougher - but Ted has to be quietly laughing about the Queens' future. Or lack thereof.

[Freak Out]

How well did he do in the game last year against us?

[Freak Out]

How well did he do in the game last year against us?

2 solo tackles one assist and half a sack.

[Partial]

No way would I put the Vikes as the favorite, but the recent trade undoubtedly makes them a threat. Stellar DL and OL along with a great back makes them scary. But........

Who is their starting QB again ? The better question might be do they have one on the roster.

Do we?

[b bulldog]

I hope ARod will be ok but to say we are set at the QB position is crazy. For all we know, ARod will not be starting week two because of injury.

[HarveyWallbangers]

ARod could be as bad as TJack was last year. Nobody knows. We could finish anywhere from 1st to 4th.

Brett was overrated though and had lost a lot. ARod shouldn't have any problems replacing him.
:D

[hoosier]

As long as the Kampman comparisons are coming up, how about Allen's ability against the run? Is he more like Kampman or KGB in that regards? Teams already know that they most likely won't get much from running up the middle. How does this affect the edge of the DL against the run?


From what I've read he isn't a liability so you can play him every down but I would guess not as good as Kampman against the run. I read he had improved but wasn't exactly a run stopper.

Assuming Allen plays RE for Minn they really don't need him to be a run-stopper, just as long as he's not a complete pushover a la KGB in early 2006. But who is Minn fielding at LE? The SN depth chart says Jayme Mitchell. Can that be right? Is Ray Edwards also in the running?

[Lurker64]

2 solo tackles one assist and half a sack.

Now he's getting paid about 1.5 million a year to play against us. I wonder if that's worth 4 solo tackles, 2 assists, and one sack?

[Rastak]

As long as the Kampman comparisons are coming up, how about Allen's ability against the run? Is he more like Kampman or KGB in that regards? Teams already know that they most likely won't get much from running up the middle. How does this affect the edge of the DL against the run?


From what I've read he isn't a liability so you can play him every down but I would guess not as good as Kampman against the run. I read he had improved but wasn't exactly a run stopper.

Assuming Allen plays RE for Minn they really don't need him to be a run-stopper, just as long as he's not a complete pushover a la KGB in early 2006. But who is Minn fielding at LE? The SN depth chart says Jayme Mitchell. Can that be right? Is Ray Edwards also in the running?
I heard on the radio that Edwards would move to the left side. Robison maybe splits time. Mitchell is an ok end for spelling someone but you don't want him out there too much. I do like the tandem of Edwards and Robison though. The Vikings DL should be pretty decent this year.

[RashanGary]

The Vikings are better. I don't see it being enough though. Their offense is predictable and stoppable. Their ST's are just OK from what I recall. Their defense might be the best in the NFC.

Allen is a top tier DE. I'd give up two 3rds and a 1st for him right now, but when you add the contract, I don't think it's worth it. The Vikings are taking a huge risk here. It probably won't pay off. Did they get in the same league as the Patriots, Colts, Chargers, Jaguars and Giants (the unstoppable ones that pounced Romo, Favre and Brady en route to the Championship)? I doubt it. TJack is not going to lead them to a SB.

So where does that leave the Vikings? NOT good enough in my opinion. The Patriots weren't good enough adding Moss, Stalworth and Adalius Thomas. The Vikings aren't going to be better than the Pats with TJack at QB and Allen and Barrian added. It's just not going to happen.

[b bulldog]

We are only talking NFC North Nick and Harv, I posted that I was wrong last season about Brett and in all honesty, I think even Brett knows he wouldn't duplicate last season and that was one of the reasons why he retired. brett's washed up and AJ is the best LB in football :worship:

[RashanGary]

We are only talking NFC North Nick and Harv, I posted that I was wrong last season about Brett and in all honesty, I think even Brett knows he wouldn't duplicate last season and that was one of the reasons why he retired. brett's washed up and AJ is the best LB in football :worship:

The Packers WILL take a step back at QB. Maybe it's a small step back if Rodgers is really good but maybe it's a huge step back if Rodgers doesn't have it. My guess is that it will be a significant step A QB play to C QB play. They should improve on the interior line through growth. They should improve at RB, FB, WR, LB, S. They should be about the same at OT and DL. I think they'll take a step back at CB. All in all, I think they get slightly better as a whole while getting worse at QB. The end result is about a 9 or 10 win team IMO.

I see the Bears getting better. They keep adding talent and not making any disasterous decisions to get worse.

The Lions are awfull.

The Vikings are probably the class of the NFC North. I don't think it sustainable for them, but for at least one year (maybe two), I think they are the favorites.



The Packers are in an average spot. They've got some good, young pieces but they have some big time needs. They need a better stable of DE's. They don't know what htey have at QB. They have aging CB's and OT's. They have some problems. Every team does, but they are pretty serious problems or growing serious problems. Thompson needs to keep piecing solid piece on solid piece and mixing in some Jennings and Grants as well. He needs to keep building one of the deepest teams in the league and eventually 20 good decisions in a row will lead to good things as a whole. I just don't believe champions are built in one off season. I think the Packers are on path, but they need to stay on it if they want to finish it off. The Vikings are taking the wrong approach in my opinion. I think we have better chances at a championship in the next 5 years than they do because I think the way we're building a base will allow us to finish it off when the time comes. I see the Vikings running out of ammo before they get over the top.

[falco]

i think maybe the vikings gave up too much, but I mean come on - who wasn't excited when they thought we might be getting Allen? He's definitely going to make them better.

[Fritz]

As I said in another thread, every year Minnesota wins the NFC North between February and August.

[mngolf19]

As long as the Kampman comparisons are coming up, how about Allen's ability against the run? Is he more like Kampman or KGB in that regards? Teams already know that they most likely won't get much from running up the middle. How does this affect the edge of the DL against the run?


From what I've read he isn't a liability so you can play him every down but I would guess not as good as Kampman against the run. I read he had improved but wasn't exactly a run stopper.

Assuming Allen plays RE for Minn they really don't need him to be a run-stopper, just as long as he's not a complete pushover a la KGB in early 2006. But who is Minn fielding at LE? The SN depth chart says Jayme Mitchell. Can that be right? Is Ray Edwards also in the running?

It will be Edwards with Robison backing up both End spots.

[b bulldog]

The Bears have taken a step back imo, a pretty big one at that. They have no RB, they have an old OL, they have no QB, they have lost their only deep threat to Minny and replaced him with Booker??, they have troubled and disgrunteled LB's, they have slary issues with their best DL and the best KR in the league and their S can never stay healthy.