Now boarding.... the A Car

[MadtownPacker]

All aboard!!!!!!!

Carroll is gonna take either Harris' spot or Woodson's but he is gonna start at some point this season and it aint gonna be cuz someone gets hurts. It is going to be because he is blazing fast, likes to hit, and takes a great mug shot. I know many are turned off by his cockiness but what is wrong with it? As long as he backs it up I dont care.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/258810.jpg

[Joemailman]

I voted no, but that's not really negative. Barring injury, I don't see Carroll starting this year. However, as nickel back, I think he will be a part of one of the best defensive backfields in the league. As a nickel back, he will be on the field about half the time, so people will see a lot of him. I see 2007 as his likely break-out year.

[Bretsky]

All aboard!!!!!!!

Carroll is gonna take either Harris' spot or Woodson's but he is gonna start at some point this season and it aint gonna be cuz someone gets hurts. It is going to be because he is blazing fast, likes to hit, and takes a great mug shot. I know many are turned off by his cockiness but what is wrong with it? As long as he backs it up I dont care.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/258810.jpg


The Carroll fan club needs some recruits. The problem with Carroll is twofold

1. He hasn't proven he's mature over the course of the season
2. He doesn't have instincts to play the ball


And I'm worried #1 makes him tough to coach and that he will never get the skills for #2 because he doesn't have the natural ball hawking ability.

I'm not completely down on him; I just think he belongs in the nickel back position, which he can handle fine. I don't want to see him covering a teams best or 2nd best WR.


B

[Deputy Nutz]

This is from our favorite reporter Jason Wilde,

Granted these are just words from Carrroll, but at least he is projecting maturity.


Packers: Carroll sees bright future
JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
GREEN BAY - As Ahmad Carroll stood in front of his locker Thursday, you almost wondered who it really was behind the pricey Chanel sunglasses he was wearing.

(Why the Green Bay Packers' third-year cornerback felt the need to wear them indoors is another question for another day.)

For while it looked like Carroll (with his 5-foot-10, 190-pound muscular frame) and sounded like Carroll (with his high-pitched, hard-to-understand Southern drawl), what he was saying was nothing like the stuff you've heard from the selfish, penalty-prone player during his first two NFL seasons.

He admitted he played poorly last season, when he led the defense in penalties for the second straight year with nine, had only two interceptions and was beaten routinely on key plays.

He took responsibility for the team having to sign four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Charles Woodson in free agency to take his starting spot opposite Al Harris.

And he confessed to being "hard-headed" and "not listening" and being "immature" in the past.

"You have to be realistic," said Carroll, who practiced Thursday after missing the Packers' first day of organized team activity workouts Wednesday for what he called "family" reasons. "In the offseason, my agent asked me, 'Do you honestly think you had a great year?' I said, 'No, I don't think I had a great year.' I hurt the team. We finished No. 1 (in passing defense), but individually, I didn't do very good."

As a result, the Packers are paying Woodson about $10 million this season, while Carroll has been demoted to nickel back. With Woodson and Harris skipping the last minicamp and not taking part Wednesday, Carroll is the most experienced cornerback in camp and team officials have been pleasantly surprised by how he's responded to Woodson's signing.

"There's certain challenges in one's life, and he seems to be taking this as a challenge," general manager Ted Thompson said.

"He's been very, very professional with ownership of his play, and that's what you look for," defensive coordinator Bob Sanders said. "He's taking advantage of every opportunity he can to be as good as he can be, and we need him to do that. This is a year he should mature."

The Packers' first-round pick in 2004, Carroll doesn't turn 23 until August. And although he hasn't lived up to his draft status, he has shown glimpses of toughness and athleticism. Talk may be cheap, but Carroll's words indicate an improved attitude, which could mean there's hope for him yet.

"Look, if I'd have done a better job, (Woodson) wouldn't be here," Carroll said. "But that doesn't mean I'm never going to be a starter again. I don't want to mope around, I don't want to (complain) about it and then go out there and (be) making the same mistakes I did last year.

"You never know what might happen. I might have to get back out there and be a starter. So I have to be ready. I have to get to where the coaches are looking at me (saying), 'Ahmad is doing such a great job coming in on third down that we have confidence in him.' But you can't take it and mope around about it. Then, I won't learn anything at all. And I've got (a lot) to learn."

[chain_gang]

I'll board. I think he'll take over for Harris at some point this year. I think Carroll will really step it up this year, mainly because of the experience he has. He has more athletic ability as Harris and now I think he's getting the mental aspect down, he'll be a quality starter for years. I really think last year he showed loads of improvement, and it'll carry over to this year.


http://images.packers.com/pg/carroll_ahmad/photo15.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

"He took responsibility for the team having to sign four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Charles Woodson in free agency to take his starting spot opposite Al Harris."

All it takes is a couple of sparks to start a fire. Carroll has taken this like a man. He was the Packs best CB at the end of last season.

[woodbuck27]

All aboard!!!!!!!

Carroll is gonna take either Harris' spot or Woodson's but he is gonna start at some point this season and it aint gonna be cuz someone gets hurts. It is going to be because he is blazing fast, likes to hit, and takes a great mug shot. I know many are turned off by his cockiness but what is wrong with it? As long as he backs it up I dont care.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/258810.jpg


The usual knock on Ahmad is twofold. Character/attitude and size restriction. Maybe he doesn't know it yet, but this CB has a natural tendency to wanna scrap. He's at that already in the mini camps this Season and being competitive and not being cool are vastly different.

This CB has the speed but he will always be 5' - 11". He has to continue to trust that speed and react better to the ball. Clutching and grabbing penaltys decreased some last season but that has to improve with confidence in the role assigned to him. Starter - no , more likely @ Nickle.

If OUR "O" gets back to speed the Pack will feel more HEAT from the pass and Ahmad Carroll must be ready to step in there and make the big play. It comes down to getting that job done and If he plays it cool, I have hope he will grow more this Season.

He has to knock off 'the punk'.

GO Packers !

[Badgepack]

Good point Mad, unlike the way Roman handled the signing of Manuel. I think he will succeed as a nickle, and be a good starter next year. Alot less pressure on him this year will help Carroll develope.

[woodbuck27]

"He took responsibility for the team having to sign four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Charles Woodson in free agency to take his starting spot opposite Al Harris."

All it takes is a couple of sparks to start a fire. Carroll has taken this like a man. He was the Packs best CB at the end of last season.


Yes I agree, as Al Harris seemed to get tired or rundown as the Season progressed but who didn't on OUR side, LOL ?

What I heard last Season and holdover or put stock in, is Al Harris's vote of confidence in Ahmad Carroll.

AC had to fight hard at every level in his development from a youth, to get the starter role, again that successful prognosis in the NFL will depend . .

100 % on attitude - He has the talent.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Well, I voted "no". In fact, I think Woodson will succumb to injury at some point and Carroll will be asked to step into his place in the starting lineup. At that point, he will be exposed to be the true nickel back that he is. As is typical for Carroll, he will get burned and look lost. He'll look strong in bump and run, but he'll be exposed by the tall trees of the NFC North in coverage.

The Carroll project will be over in 2006 and the team will jettison him in the offsesaon. Are you getting the idea that I'm not a Carroll fan?

tyler

[MJZiggy]

I voted no, not because I don't think Carroll will show the ability, but because he won't be given the opportunity. Woodson has a HUGE chip on his shoulder and wants to prove something to the entire NFL. Barring injury he will perform and if the rumors of Harris' discontent with his contract are true, he will play like a player in a contract year. I think Coach Mac might hesitate to put him in at corner unless there's an injury looking at his play last year. I think Carroll will play like a corner stuck in the nickelback position.

[Joemailman]

This is not a bad situation for Carroll if he handles it right. Al Harris made a name for himself as the league's best nickel back, playing behind Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent, before Sherman traded for him and made him a starter. I could see a situation in a year or two where Woodson is moved to safety and Carroll becomes the starting CB.

[gureski]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.

[Bossman641]

I voted yes

Not sure he will start ths year unless Woodson gets injured or Harris has lost some speed and plays like he did the final 4 games of last season, but I do think Carroll will play very well.

So he's a little cocky? That's what I want in a cornerback

[Badgepack]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.

A couple/few of picks returned for touchdowns would do it, along with solid tackling and passes defensed.

[chain_gang]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.


This I would have to disagree with. Being a nickel back, you'll see the field a lot. So many teams use the 3 WR set, that your base package is basically the nickel.

I think regardless, though, that Carroll will end up passing up Harris on the depth chart. Harris may have been our number 1 CB last year, but that was by default. He had the experience. His abilities are limited, they always have been, but they are going to become more apparent with age. He is not a shutdown corner, never has been, never will be. He's average, not bad, but not that great. The reason why he wasn't thrown at so much was because teams never needed to pass because we always seemed to be playing catch up. No doubt they'll pick on Carroll once in a while, mainly because of the rookie year he had. Carroll gave up no more big plays than Harris did last year, and while he may have had more penalties(not by much,Harris always seems to get a hands to the face call), most of them would've been overlooked if not for his rookie year. I'm not trying to completely discredit what harris has done, but he won't get better, Carroll can.

He's in year 3 and now is going to be in the same defense for the second consecutive year. He showed he is coachable by being able to bounce back last year. I expect more of the same this year. Sometimes you need to take that step backwards in order to take a big leap forward.

[MadtownPacker]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.Maybe he was demoted but that was by default with the Woodson signing. He sure didnt lose the job.

For those that play FF, how many times have you seen a guy flip the script and play all pro? It can and will happen with Carroll.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years. I don't know what the speeds are for any of these players and I'm basing my assessment on the height differential. I don't believe the vertical jump is a great benefit in coverage. If he becomes the starter, he will get picked on because of his size. 4-6 inches and a Muhammad-sized wingspan looms large over Carroll.

Chicago Bears
Muhammad 6'2"
Gage 6'4"

Lions
Roy Williams 6'2"
Mike Wiliams 6'4"
Scottie Vines 6'2"
Charles Rodgers 6'3"

Vikings
K. Robinson 6'1"
M. Robinson 6'3"
T. Williamson 6'1"

[bbbffl66]

Carroll will be a very good-not great-nickel for us. I see next year as his big year.

[MadtownPacker]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years.HAHAHAHA, "decreased over the years"? You do KNOW he is younger then some of this years draft picks right? He aint even close to hitting his prime.

[MadtownPacker]

Carroll will be a very good-not great-nickel for us. I see next year as his big year.Welcome to PR.

Now I have to disagree with you. :razz: He will be a GREAT nickel and a very good starter just like was at the end of last season.

[chain_gang]

Yes the size can be a mismatch, but how many great CB's have been over 6 foot tall. I believe Ronde Barber is only 5'10, DeAngelo Hall is only 5'10, Ty Law is 5'11, the list can go on and on. Darrell Green was a good example too.


Height is a slight issue, but he can overcome that in the NFC north pretty easily, because there's not a superstar receiver in that group. There aren't many great wideouts that are over 6'2 anyways. Most of them are between, 5'11 and 6'2. Owens, Moss, and a few others are exceptions.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Ahmad Carroll is the 2nd coming of Terrell Buckley. Same size. Same speed. Same weight. Same skills. Same mouth. Buckley was never more than an average CB in the league. I just don't get how everyone is so high on Carroll after seeing this whole situation before with Buckley. Carroll couldn't wrench the starting CB position from Joey Thomas in his rookie year; instead, we're talking about him stepping up into a position in the secondary this year due to injury and suggesting he's great in his 3rd year in the league?

As a Packer fan, I hope I'm wrong and I hope he shows the brilliance that Sherman saw in him when he drafted him.

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Yes the size can be a mismatch, but how many great CB's have been over 6 foot tall. I believe Ronde Barber is only 5'10, DeAngelo Hall is only 5'10, Ty Law is 5'11, the list can go on and on. Darrell Green was a good example too.


Height is a slight issue, but he can overcome that in the NFC north pretty easily, because there's not a superstar receiver in that group. There aren't many great wideouts that are over 6'2 anyways. Most of them are between, 5'11 and 6'2. Owens, Moss, and a few others are exceptions.

Yes, but Carroll is far from a superstar himself. He's not even notched as a starter....

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years.HAHAHAHA, "decreased over the years"? You do KNOW he is younger then some of this years draft picks right? He aint even close to hitting his prime.

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.

tyler

[Bossman641]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams have two 6'1" cornerbacks lining up for them. This is not the case at all. I was just looking through some depth charts on nfl.com because I was going to find the average height and weight of every starting cornerback in the league before I realized that the charts aren't updated and it would take forever so I gave up. I would guess that the average height is 5'10" or 5'11".

WR height has grown much faster than CB height. If you're a tall kid with good speed and can catch the ball, you play WR. Carroll's height is not nearly as big a deal as most make it out to be. His ball skills and recognition are a bigger problem than his size but I think these will improve as a result of being more comfortable on the field.

All aboard the Carroll fan club

[jack's smirking revenge]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams have two 6'1" cornerbacks lining up for them. This is not the case at all. I was just looking through some depth charts on nfl.com because I was going to find the average height and weight of every starting cornerback in the league before I realized that the charts aren't updated and it would take forever so I gave up. I would guess that the average height is 5'10" or 5'11".

WR height has grown much faster than CB height. If you're a tall kid with good speed and can catch the ball, you play WR. Carroll's height is not nearly as big a deal as most make it out to be. His ball skills and recognition are a bigger problem than his size but I think these will improve as a result of being more comfortable on the field.

All aboard the Carroll fan club

Height overrated, eh?
How tall is Randy Moss? 6'4"
How tall is Terrell Owens? 6'3"
How tall is Marvin Harrison? 6'0"
How tall is Anquan Boldin? 6'1"
How tall is Chad Johnson? 6'1"
How tall is Larry Fitzgerald? 6'3"

Most game-breaking WRs have a combination of size and speed. Game-breaking WRs are going up against your short CBs, which should hint that short CBs are problematic. Carroll has speed, but not the height. If he gets matched up against someone with both size and speed, it is an obvious mismatch.

I do have to admit though that 2005 doesn't really support my argument--the top two WRs were 5'10" (Steve Smith and Santana Moss).

Anyway, my bottom line is that Carroll has problems that, after three years, shouldn't be problems anymore. I don't see where cockiness and confidence can come into the picture with Carroll. He hasn't shown any consistency.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.
See.. now I feel like I can believe you mean it. That was really more like a sentence instead of a page though.

I like the idea of both starting next season because it means the D found it's duo for a while. I think Carroll knows it is his time to shine or else. TT seems likely to pull the trigger faster on a Sherm pick.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.
See.. now I feel like I can believe you mean it. That was really more like a sentence instead of a page though.

I like the idea of both starting next season because it means the D found it's duo for a while. I think Carroll knows it is his time to shine or else. TT seems likely to pull the trigger faster on a Sherm pick.

Look, if Hawkins and Carroll evolve into the tandem of the future for the Pack, then I will be as giddy as a crackwhore in candyland. As you said, Carroll HAS TO shine this year or else. He's draft tradebait next year if he falters this year.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

He's draft tradebait next year if he falters this year.

100% agree.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I still side with Zig though. His window of opportunity is VERY small. He has very little margin for error since he's been "relegated" (a nice way of saying demoted) to backup by Woodson. I don't think he'll have the opportunity to "breakout" anymore. He had his chance and the Packers lost what little confidence they had in him. If they did have confidence that he was going to turn the corner, they wouldn't have brought in Woodson.

TT has created a VERY nice backfield dynamic though: Woodson will play to show that he's still got game and that he's still a playa in the NFL; Carroll will play to show that he's EVEN a playa in the NFL and that he deserves the next big payday (which is looming on the horizon).

Given Carroll's history of failure and Woodson's history of injury, I fear that we're not much better off than last year. But, that's why the games are played. We won't know anything for sure until preseason.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

The fresh air is gonna makes Woodson's bones strong so they dont break.

[jack's smirking revenge]

The fresh air is gonna makes Woodson's bones strong so they dont break.

He will resurrect the Wolverine that was hidden away long ago....

Maybe Hugh Jackman can play him in the Packer 2006 movie.

tyler

[Bossman641]

Jack, my point is not that height is overrated. My point is that this is something that every NFl team has to deal with. It's not like Carroll is the runt of the CB litter. In fact, he is about average size.

Here's the Pro Bowl CB's from last year

Champ Bailey 6'0"
Deltha O'Neal 5'11"
Ty Law 5'11"
Ronde Barber 5'10"
DeAngelo Hall 5'10"
Nathan Vasher 5'10"

Most teams start at least 1 corner who is 5'10" or 5'11". There simply aren't that many 6'2" corners in the league. The tall corners that are in the league normally have marginal speed (hello Michael Hawthorne) because coaches move tall players with speed to WR in high school and college.

If you have a problem with his actual skills that is fine with me. I just hate when people (not necessarily you), just say that he is too small.

Personally, with the recent rule changes prohibiting contact between CB's and WR's, I think it is more important to have fast corners than big corners that can knock WR's off their routes.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Jack, my point is not that height is overrated. My point is that this is something that every NFl team has to deal with. It's not like Carroll is the runt of the CB litter. In fact, he is about average size.

Here's the Pro Bowl CB's from last year

Champ Bailey 6'0"
Deltha O'Neal 5'11"
Ty Law 5'11"
Ronde Barber 5'10"
DeAngelo Hall 5'10"
Nathan Vasher 5'10"

Most teams start at least 1 corner who is 5'10" or 5'11". There simply aren't that many 6'2" corners in the league. The tall corners that are in the league normally have marginal speed (hello Michael Hawthorne) because coaches move tall players with speed to WR in high school and college.

If you have a problem with his actual skills that is fine with me. I just hate when people (not necessarily you), just say that he is too small.

Personally, with the recent rule changes prohibiting contact between CB's and WR's, I think it is more important to have fast corners than big corners that can knock WR's off their routes.

Very good points and well stated. Perhaps teams should start converting their useless, tall WRs that don't make the cut into CBs.

As a big proponent of defense, I'm frustrated by the rule changes. I understand the NFL's goal of increasing scoring, but for those of us that like to see tight, close defensive struggles, its annoying to watch CBs get burned on a regular basis.

Eh, the more I think about my point, the more I'm siding with you. CB speed is really the key in this game with the rule changes. Vasher and the Bears defense lost their playoff game to Steve Smith--not because of size, but because of speed.

As you suggested, size isn't necessarily Carroll's problem. He's got a list of other ones to address. Maybe Woodson will help him solve those problems and develop into a top-notch corner.

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?

tyler

[Chester Marcol]

When it comes to Carroll it reminds me of a quote from a very wise man. 'Fool me once, shame on.....shame on you. Fool me............you can't get fooled again'. My optimism has sailed. I think Carroll has found his home at nickel with the next stop being dime and then door. At best I hope he's a great nickel or a useful draft pick. I'm tired of getting sucked into the optimism of a player that has had every opportunity to show he belongs. Like others say, for the sake of the Packers, I hope he does turn it around. Maybe all he needed was a bit of humility. Unfortunately I think his instincts run so deep, that I'm not sure I ever want him in the game on a top reciever in a clutch last minute drive when he feels he's been beat and he does what he always does and grabs.

[Chester Marcol]

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?
tyler

Carroll signed a 6yr deal I believe with this being his 3rd year. And it was only for 7mil if I read right.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?
tyler

Carroll signed a 6yr deal I believe with this being his 3rd year. And it was only for 7mil if I read right.

My bad. Thanks for clarifying.

tyler

[gureski]

Correct me if I'm wrong but most every team in the league starts its two best CB's?

The third best CB becomes the #3 CB or what is often referred to as the 'Nickel' back.

IF Carroll is one of the 2 best CB's on this team next year then he WILL start. Current odds are very high that he will not beat out Harris or Woodson.

Now, if Carroll doesn't beat out Woodson or Harris then there is no way that anyone can proclaim that Carroll is better then Woodson or Harris if he starts the season at #3 CB. As of reports from voluntary workouts recently, Carroll is behind Woodson and Harris on the depth chart. All signals point to Carroll being the Nickel back and not being as good or better options then Woodson or Harris.

Carroll stated himself, in an interview with Jason Wilde just yesterday, that he played TERRIBLY and hurt the team last year so let's not get carried away and overrate the guy. He said himself he played poorly.

Now, with all that stated.... in order to have a breakout season you have to do something special. You do not have a breakout season as a demoted nickel back. His career is sliding in the wrong direction! All he can do this year, as a nickel back, is stop the bleeding!

You earn your way into the starting line up as a nickel back but you don't mark your career as a nickel back. At least not if you have any kind of future in front of you, that is.

Carroll could revive his career as a nickel back by playing solid football, correcting his mistakes, and gaining confidence by covering the #3 WR on other teams. If he does all that, he will be in line to start again but it will not be a 'Breakout' season. The Breakout season would come when he reassumes a starting job and plays above average to great football. That's what breakout would imply. To just play good as a nickel back is merely to save his career, not launch

If you disagree with this then give your definition of breakout because it's got to be different then conventional wisdom.

[The Leaper]

I don't see Carroll breaking out this year...although I think we are going to see his game take a nice step forward, which will point toward developing into a solid starter for 2007.

I do think he will make some big plays in 2006...he's going to be able to sit back and learn, and I think he will be one of the best nickle backs in the league. He's a great insurance policy on Woodson and Harris, who both have potential for missing time due to injury.

[CaptainKickass]

I voted yes.

This HAS to be his breakout year. My concept of breakout for him means breaking out of the bad habits, and maturing under the tutelage of both Woodson and Harris.

Anyone who believes that Harris is old, average, and lost a step at age 31 is crazy. That guy has been nothing but consistently tough and has been more than effective since we acquired him from Philedelphia.

[gureski]

See, that's the place where I, and others, will part ways....

To have a 'Breakout' season then that means something special. Just playing solid football is not the equivilent to something special. Eliminating mistakes is a step in the right direction but it's not special. It's not something that will mark his coming of age.

It's a step. Not a leap, is what I'm pointing out.

Playing solid football is a step. Breaking out would be a leap.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I agree with gureski. He's a millionaire, former #1 pick. He should be a starter and we should be confident of his abilities, not looking for him to cut down his mistakes and be more consistent in his 3rd year in the league. We shouldn't be hearing admissions from him that he played "horrible". But I guess "breakout" does apply from the perspective that expectations are so low for him that he should be able to prove to us that he's not a failure.

tyler

[FavreChild]

My thought on this is quite simple - it's much more fun to root for Carroll than against him. It's also more fun to take a chance than to back a sure thing.

So...go Ahmad.

Also, we have other players on the team that can fill the scapegoat role this year. Like Billy Cundiff. :wink:

[CaptainKickass]

I've got Carrol down for 3 turnovers this year. Any combo of picks/forced fumbles will do.

Does that count as a breakout season for him?

[Fritz]

Two issues not getting enough attention here are Carroll's lack of instinctual play and his grabbiness. The guy is cocky, young, and fast - but he just doesn't seem to have that innate sense of how to play the ball. He'll be one of those guys who seem to have tight coverage but the receiver catches it anyway. And when he feels he's getting beat, out come the hands.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.

[Chester Marcol]

My thought on this is quite simple - it's much more fun to root for Carroll than against him. It's also more fun to take a chance than to back a sure thing.

So...go Ahmad.

Also, we have other players on the team that can fill the scapegoat role this year. Like Billy Cundiff. :wink:

It's not like I'm Tank'n on Carroll. Nothing would tickle me more than to have 3 starter quality CB's. If he could just rely on his god given talent and lose his instincts to "cheat" when he feels he's been beat, he'd be alright. I'm just tired of waiting in the pumpkin patch for the Great Pumpkin to show every year and just end up with the reality that I'm sitting amongst gourd sprouting weeds without any trick or treat candy.

[RashanGary]

I'll join....

I don't think he'll "break out", but I do think he'll be a good player this year. I watched him quite extensively at camp and he was obviously the #1 CB with Woodson and Harris away. He's very physical, and his fights mostly start because he's in your face and very physical. I don't think WR's always appreciate his annoying, physical style. In camp he's annoying. In a game, he's going to be fun to watch.

I think people remember that rookie season in wich he never should have played and cannot get that out of their heads. I believe he has made steady improvements adn will continue those this year. He looked very strong, fast and quick at camp. He's cocky and in your face even when it's practice. He's only 22 or whatever so guys don't want to see it, but he's going to give it anyway.

I think Carroll is going to be a good player. The best thing about him is that he'll probably never demand a huge pay day because he's a little small and cocky. So he'll get paid small but play big. If he does not perform at a high level this year, I am off his wagon. I think he will though.

[The Leaper]

See, that's the place where I, and others, will part ways....

To have a 'Breakout' season then that means something special. Just playing solid football is not the equivilent to something special.

Yes...

Or to put it into an example...

Javon Walker in 2003 was not a breakout. He played well, and showed he was a starting caliber WR in the NFL. The second half of the season he was one of the best 15 WRs in football. However, doing over 16 games means something.

Javon Walker in 2004 was a breakout.

I don't see Carroll doing what Walker did in 2004. However, he could easily do what Walker did in 2003...stepping in and playing high quality football that secures a starting spot in 2007.

[Packers4Ever]

I voted no, not because I don't think Carroll will show the ability, but because he won't be given the opportunity. Woodson has a HUGE chip on his shoulder and wants to prove something to the entire NFL. Barring injury he will perform and if the rumors of Harris' discontent with his contract are true, he will play like a player in a contract year. I think Coach Mac might hesitate to put him in at corner unless there's an injury looking at his play last year. I think Carroll will play like a corner stuck in the nickelback position.

Oh I hope not, Zig. No Carroll fan here over the past 2 seasons either, I did as much screaming as anyone when he'd pull one of his stupid penalties and there were MANY. But I read about Coach Sherman's private talk with him sometime during last season and it sounded like he might be ready to shape up and start playing smart back then. I think the guy really has a lot of ability if he's able to play his position well and watching his mouth, etc...won't hurt either. I'd hate to see him ride out of here like another McKenzie or Walker, both talented players.
Anyway, I voted Yes on him.

[red]

Too bad he's as dumb as A Car

i don't know guys, i've watched every snap he's played, and i don't see the potential some of the rest of you see. if he had the talent that you guys claim to see, i don't think we would have had to drop a ton of money on a guy to take his starting spot.

so far to me he's a bust IMO, i first round pick going into his third season should have showed us by now that he was capable of being a #1 CB. so far he's proven he couldn't even be a #2, and might not even be a #3 if he can't pull his head out of his ass and hawkins or blackmon can show us something in TC

and didn't he just get into a fight with a teamate agint this offseason? he hasn't learn anything, he's still as dumb as a brick

he's like freddie mitchell on the other side of the ball. all talk, and too damn stupid to be able to back it up

[esoxx]

Carroll is often compared with Buckley. However, there's two glaring differences between the players: Carroll is a much more physical player than Buckley ever was. He doesn't "play small" like Buckley.

Meanwhile, Buckley had very good ball hawking skills and ball instincts. It's what essentially kept him in the league all those years. Carroll has very poor balls skills by comparison.

BTW, I voted no.

[Bretsky]

What Red and Esoxx said

[MadtownPacker]

Still boarding.....

[retailguy]

Still boarding.....

Not sure it'll be "breakout", but he'll get a lot of playing time. His coverage skills really aren't that bad, he really lacking consistency though. Love the attitude change, hope that continues...

[PCastleberg]

I voted yes.

This HAS to be his breakout year. My concept of breakout for him means breaking out of the bad habits, and maturing under the tutelage of both Woodson and Harris.

Anyone who believes that Harris is old, average, and lost a step at age 31 is crazy. That guy has been nothing but consistently tough and has been more than effective since we acquired him from Philedelphia.

Same here Captain...I LOVE your sig, when I read that in the paper I thought it was the best line I had seen in a while!

PC

[Bretsky]

Still boarding.....


Come on Mad; look for a good cause to fight. You'll need to start offering bribes or hottie latinos to get this train full.

[Partial]

Anyone else think Carroll would make an excellent strong-in-the-box safety? He may not be the biggest but he's fearless.

[MadtownPacker]

Still boarding.....


Come on Mad; look for a good cause to fight. You'll need to start offering bribes or hottie latinos to get this train full.Pleae B, latinas. :roll: You just said hot dudes. Always use an "a" to feminize it.


But watch out, Carroll is gonna take somebody's job. Is it gonna be Harrisment or Woodson? Thats the only question.

[b bulldog]

Size and maturity are his limitations and so are his hands :roll:

[MJZiggy]

You just said hot dudes.

I fail to see a problem here. :mrgreen:

[the_idle_threat]

Carroll is often compared with Buckley. However, there's two glaring differences between the players: Carroll is a much more physical player than Buckley ever was. He doesn't "play small" like Buckley.

Meanwhile, Buckley had very good ball hawking skills and ball instincts. It's what essentially kept him in the league all those years. Carroll has very poor balls skills by comparison.

BTW, I voted no.

My thoughts exactly. AC is too often compared with Buckley. I don't give AC much credit, but he certainly isn't a coward like T-Buck.

Partial mentioned converting AC to a box safety---a thought I've had as well. However, safeties need to be fairly intelligent, and AC is dumber than half a brick.

I think AC is media smart but football stupid, and I'll be surprised if he ever reaches the level of ordinary in his career, a la Tyrone Williams.

Of course, I'd really like to be proven wrong. :smile:

[Deputy Nutz]

Ahmad Carroll has been to almost all of the OTAs working on his game. I think he missed one maybe two but that is it. Mean while Woodson is tooling around Europe and Harris has decided he is not being paid enough so he doesn't think he has to show up. You want maturity, pay attention to Ahmad Carroll at the OTAs.

[Green Bud Packer]

Voted no. This will be his break down year. At 5'8" with a brain the size of a t-rex and hands of stone this kid is going down as another terrible pick by sherm the germ.