Revolving door GM???

[wist43]

I see most everyone is fairly giddy over day 1, but...

I like the Brohm pick, but that has as much to do with the fact that I don't like Rodgers - in general I give GM's a pass on QB's - they're next to impossible to project.

Anyway, the Nelson and Lee picks are troubling to me - Nelson b/c TT creates another log jam situation, and Lee b/c he seems to fit the Packers preferred template for evaluating college CB's - raw physical ability, little experience, and virtually no production. PFW's write up of Lee sounds eeirly like Ahmad Carroll... Carroll, Antwan Edwards, et al... the Packers don't have a very good track record of evaluating college corners.

The Nelson pick speaks to another problem - building a bloody team. This is two years in a row... The Harrell pick pushed Williams off the roster - will the Nelson pick push Jennings off the roster after '09???

So how does this make the team better??? Harrell clearly isn't better than Williams, so not only did we lose a better player at a position of strength already, we wasted a 1st round pick that could have been used at another position.

So here comes Nelson... let's say he's a hell of a player - ok, great. A lot of people are already projecting Jennings to a big payday in '10 FA and what are the odds that TT will pay him? probably not good; so, we let Jennings walk, Driver will be strictly a possesseion guy by then; James Jones showed some ability last year, I'd imagine Jones won't be happy as a 4th receiver and will make up his mind fairly quickly to bolt as soon as FA allows.

TT created a mess at DT last year and not only wasted a 1st round pick, he ran off a damn good player in Williams. Now he drafts Nelson, and will likely run off Jennings, Jones, or both.

The Brohm and Rodgers picks could also be used as object lessons in Teddism... We're told Rodgers was "a steal", "too much value to pass up", blah, blah, blah - does anyone really think the guy will lead us to a SB??? Of course not.

Either way you slice it - one of the two of them is a wasted pick. If Brohm becomes the starter, then TT wasted the '05 1st round pick. If Rodgers stays the starter (something I seriously doubt) and Brohm rides the bench, the best we could hope for would be a trade in 3-4 years - so did we spend a 2rd rd pick this year essentially to trade it for a future 2nd or 3rd round pick. More wheel spinning than team building.

I think Brohm has a much better chance than Rodgers so I'm not viewing the day as a total loss, but the drafting of Nelson, regardless of whether he turns out to be a player or not, speaks to what I consider to be a fundamentally debilitating flaw in TT - complete and total tunnel vision with respect to each and every player, regardless of position, and without any regard to building a roster.

In the end, TT's philosophy seems to be self-torpedoing... draft the highest rated guy on your board, regardless of whether that means you have to move another good guy off your roster on the other end.

I've said this before - I think it is entirely possible that TT is a great talent evaluator, that can continually supply a franchise with good talent, but will likely never be able to build a championship team.

[red]

i'll agree with you on the logjam problem and the loss of williams because of the harrell pick not leaving us in a better position

and what you said about the wr's i also agree with and fear. after reading that jones isn't happy, i could see him walking or asking to be traded. he has way to much talent to be a #4. in the nfl these days its all about money for the players. if he gets stuck at #4 he won't get the numbers, and he won't get the big payday.

he could go somewhere else and be a #2 and put up very nice numbers, and get a huge payday because of it

and the jennings thing really scares me, cause i love the guy, but you're right. TT will not give him what he's worth if he has a lot of talent already. just like williams

[SkinBasket]

Lee b/c he seems to fit the Packers preferred template for evaluating college CB's - raw physical ability, little experience, and virtually no production. PFW's write up of Lee sounds eeirly like Ahmad Carroll... Carroll, Antwan Edwards, et al... the Packers don't have a very good track record of evaluating college corners.

I hope Mike Sherman isn't evaluating college corners for us anymore.

[The Shadow]

I don't think it likely that Driver will play till he's 50.

[Bretsky]

Last year I noted almost immediately the drafting of Harrell was the beginning of the end for Williams. We ended up getting Brian Brohm for Corey Williams I think.

But I don't think Nelson's selection is a pre cursor to Jennings leaving.

Jennings is developing into a true star in the NFL; you can't let those guys go.
If he does many in here will have every right to flame TT

[Tony Oday]

Im under the impression that anything that Wist doesnt like is good for the Packers ;)

Wist hates Barnett...career year last year...I think we may have just drafted the next Dieon Sanders and Jerry Rice :)

[KYPack]

Wist, I know you like to accentuate the negatory, but this post borders on the ridiculous. What is TT doing? his job. He's adding talent to the roster. Every GM manages 3 teams:

The guys that are leaving because of value, contract or talent issues.
The guys on the current roster
The guys that are being added.

Look at the roster Thompson inheirited in Jan of 2005, look at the current roster and tell me if he's doing his job.

The current draft looks good to me, but nobody really knows.

This line from your post put me over the edge...

If Rodgers stays the starter (something I seriously doubt) and Brohm rides the bench, the best we could hope for would be a trade in 3-4 years - so did we spend a 2rd rd pick this year essentially to trade it for a future 2nd or 3rd round pick. More wheel spinning than team building

That is some stupid shit, Bud.

You don't think Rodgers can start?

Gimme a break.

[wist43]

Wist, I know you like to accentuate the negatory, but this post borders on the ridiculous. What is TT doing? his job. He's adding talent to the roster. Every GM manages 3 teams:

The guys that are leaving because of value, contract or talent issues.
The guys on the current roster
The guys that are being added.

Look at the roster Thompson inheirited in Jan of 2005, look at the current roster and tell me if he's doing his job.

The current draft looks good to me, but nobody really knows.

This line from your post put me over the edge...

If Rodgers stays the starter (something I seriously doubt) and Brohm rides the bench, the best we could hope for would be a trade in 3-4 years - so did we spend a 2rd rd pick this year essentially to trade it for a future 2nd or 3rd round pick. More wheel spinning than team building

That is some stupid shit, Bud.

You don't think Rodgers can start?

Gimme a break.

QB position is a different animal... given the Packers offensive system - they can't win a championship w/o a pro bowl calibur QB. Is Rodgers a pro bowl calibur QB??? I seriously doubt that, and even if he had the talent, he's certainly got huge question marks wrt durability.

Can Rodgers start in the NFL??? Probably. Can he carry a team and stay healthy??? Probably not.

I have higher hopes for Brohm... as I said, I don't mind the Brohm pick b/c if the Packers don't have the QB on the roster that can carry them to a championship, which they don't, then they have to keep bringing guys in.

Brohm may prove to be a bust, in which case I don't have a problem with investing in QB's in the draft... I may like, or dislike a guy for any number of reasons, but one thing is for sure - projecting QB's from college to the pros is an absolute crap shoot, much more so than other positions IMO. Psychological makeup, leadership skills, etc, play a huge part in the success of a QB, and it's very difficult for us to get a feel for those things from watching them on film or in an interview.

As for my larger point... I think there's a difference between creating competition at a given position and creating log jams. Did he create competition for the #3 position with Jones??? Jones is tailor made as a #3 WR in a WCO - you have the position filled - now you bring in Nelson, who may be better, but now you've demoted a guy who was comfortably slotted on your roster, pissed him off, and created another log jam.

If the politics of this work out to where Jennings walks after '10, and Jones is disgruntled with his role for the next 2-3 years, how does that appreciably improve the team??? Just as, how did the pick of Harrell and the walking Williams improve the team???

Projecting Jennings to walk is pure speculation of course, but TT has set the table again making it more of a possibility. If he extends Jennings, and Driver is phased out in favor of Nelson, with Jones staying in the mix as the #3, then I'm a happy camper.

I have a hard time seeing TT breaking open his checkbook for Jennings when he has Nelson waiting in the wings though... If Jennings waliks, then I don't like the Nelson pick at all. Even if he proves to be a good player - b/c TT will have accomplished with Nelson and Jennings what he accomplished with Harrell and Williams.

[pbmax]

The beginning of the end for Williams was the market for his services as a pass rusher. And that was easy to deduce before Harrell was picked. After seeing him log serious starting minutes last season and see the D Line wear down, do you really think he's worth that cash? And he clearly wasn't in the mood for a same team discount.

The issue of how do you build a complete team is a good one, but look at it in reverse. The Patriots filled all their holes last year in FA with good and relatively young talent. Exception might be linebacker. And what did that get them? No title.

The Giants had a logjam at DE, a mismatched set of LBs and a lot of young CBs and RBs. But their talent took the game. It didn't have anything to do with the beauty of roster construction, which is probably more important in 162 games of baseball than football's 16.

Churning two thirds of the roster with young players means they will have a better shot at finding special players rather than pay big money to limited players. It means you get upside rather than down and probably better health overall.

Jennings likely qualifies as a number one guy after Driver retires or slows down. Who is number two right then? The WR corp is deep, but not hugely talented. Jones maybe? Not Martin, and Robinson is probably short term as well.

No idea if Brohm is the guy and wist may be right about Lee. But there is no position on the Packers that doesn't need upgrading or depth.

[Packnut]

No way will TT let Jennings walk. He's the crown of Teddy's drafts.

I've agreed a lot with what Wist has said in the past especially about Harrell. That was a dumb stupid pick cause reggie Nelson would have solved our saftey problem for the next 10 years. It was a pure BONEHEAD pick. and anyone who disputes the Nelson vs Harrell debate is a football moron.

However, as bad as Harrell was, Jennings was pure genious.

It's pretty amazing that Thompson brings out such strong emotions in fans. Some hate him and some worship him with blinders on. The truth is more in the middle like I've been saying. He's batting above .500 the way I see it which ain't bad. This franchise is in better shape now with Teddy than it was before he got here..........

[pbmax]

And if Driver is limited or retired by '10, a healthy Jennings is likely going to get his contract. Not guaranteed, but likely.

[GrnBay007]

It's pretty amazing that Thompson brings out such strong emotions in fans. Some hate him and some worship him with blinders on. The truth is more in the middle

Statement of the year!!!!

[RashanGary]

Decent analysis, Wist.

I said something very similar with the QB's. Favre retired now we have to start sifting till something sticks. It's a bad situation because teams have to keep spending recources (picks) until something sticks. It might not stop at Rodgers and Brohm. It might take another first or 2nd or more. As far as I'm concerned, it was a good pick, but who knows if it will pan out. IF it doesn't, oh well. They have to start trying.

I agree with your analysis on Patrick Lee as well. I've been saying he's a raw athlete that has proven very little and those guys don't tend to all of a sudden go from bench warmer in college to starter in the NFL.

I'm mildly concerned in the short term about the log jam at WR as well. I know Driver will be declining to a lesser role soon, but right now you have 4 really good WR's. If you have Brett Favre, you can play all 4 and make teams pay. When you have Aaron Rodgers and no threat for the run it might just be a big waste. I love the pick. In the short term, I don't think it does much but in the long term, I think it really helps us at WR.

[cpk1994]

Decent analysis, Wist.

I said something very similar with the QB's. Favre retired now we have to start sifting till something sticks. It's a bad situation because teams have to keep spending recources (picks) until something sticks. It might not stop at Rodgers and Brohm. It might take another first or 2nd or more. As far as I'm concerned, it was a good pick, but who knows if it will pan out. IF it doesn't, oh well. They have to start trying.

I agree with your analysis on Patrick Lee as well. I've been saying he's a raw athlete that has proven very little and those guys don't tend to all of a sudden go from bench warmer in college to starter in the NFL.

I'm mildly concerned in the short term about the log jam at WR as well. I know Driver will be declining to a lesser role soon, but right now you have 4 really good WR's. If you have Brett Favre, you can play all 4 and make teams pay. When you have Aaron Rodgers and no threat for the run it might just be a big waste. I love the pick. In the short term, I don't think it does much but in the long term, I think it really helps us at WR.Are you on crack? What do you mean no threat for the run? Did you forget Ryan Grant? Secondly, you only have 2 really good recievers in Jennings and Driver before you even get to Nelson. Martin and KRob are expendable and Jones is no lock. Driver is getting much older. Hardly a log jam.

[RashanGary]

You might be right. I do like Driver, Jennings AND Jones though. Jones showed great hands and very good short area burst to get open and get YAC. I think he's a player - a solid #2 WR.

Nelson might be reserved to a backup/ST role in year one and two. Maybe that's not such a bad thing. We shouldn't be counting so heavily on rookies anyway. In the long term, Driver goes and Nelson steps in. I did say I liked the pick long term. Acctually, I love the pick. I think he's going to be a great Packer. Maybe it's not even bad short term if you buy into the "rookies shouldn't be counted on as starters" thing. I know a lot of coaches prefer letting rookies earn the starting role over a year or two, not just handing it to them on day one.

I've tried to figure out how to use everyone, and it's hard to imagine Rodgers running a spread offense in the NFL. It's a lot of pressure. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking about how to get a rookie on the field right now. Maybe I should just chill out and let him work his way in with ST's, a reserve role and injuries.

[woodbuck27]

I don't think it likely that Driver will play till he's 50.

Well your right.

Yet it was prudent that TT select a player with his top pick yesterday, that had a great chance to be productive where we had need for 2008 not two three years from now. More importantly not where we are strongest based on position analysis. ie last season @ DL specifically DT, and this season WR. We are fine at WR.We're not fine at FS, RDE, RB, TE, CB and @ SAM.

? for you, et all:

1. Is Poppinga's position not in need of an upgrade?

2. Do you absolutely love Nick Collins @ FS?

3.Was Lee's last season @ TE one that really encourages our strength @ TE?

4. How long in the tooth is KGB? 4b.Where does he play? 4c. How long since we drafted a quality DE and 4d. Wouldn't one fit now on the RHS of OUR DL?

TT selected with his 1st pick @ #36 another WR ( one that gets good ink yet, possibly a one year wonder. Then @ #56 a QB? WHY?? No need according to all the praise fr. TT and MM. Go to Packers.Com and read what they say on definite starting status of QB Aaron Rodgers.

In my view of yesterday and all the work we do here as fans and support for OUR Packers. We should have expected more:

The Shadow ! :roll:

Why go there when that does little to upgrade OUR team considering REAL needs?

Yes again TT chose a defensive back with his third pick ( our 2nd, second rounder) that may have upside when there we're CB's available yesterday possibly readymade in Colledge football to replace one of OUR starters @ CB Harris or Woodson if necessary ie injury?

We don't see strength at CB and that implies to me that TT select the b BPA early at CB. TT should have selected for OUR 'D' with that first pick. Trade down or not aside. He traded down and got us a fourth. He had many solid choices with that 36th pick that would have made a lot of fans really happy.

A WR and that one with only two off the board. Come on.

I'm not taking this down on you personally. This is where we hammer this stuff out respectfully I trust. :D

PACKERS FOREVER!

[cpk1994]

You might be right. I do like Driver, Jennings AND Jones though. Jones showed great hands and very good short area burst to get open and get YAC. I think he's a player - a solid #2 WR.

Nelson might be reserved to a backup/ST role in year one and two. Maybe that's not such a bad thing. We shouldn't be counting so heavily on rookies anyway. In the long term, Driver goes and Nelson steps in. I did say I liked the pick long term. Acctually, I love the pick. I think he's going to be a great Packer. Maybe it's not even bad short term if you buy into the "rookies shouldn't be counted on as starters" thing. I know a lot of coaches prefer letting rookies earn the starting role over a year or two, not just handing it to them on day one.

I've tried to figure out how to use everyone, and it's hard to imagine Rodgers running a spread offense in the NFL. It's a lot of pressure. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking about how to get a rookie on the field right now. Maybe I should just chill out and let him work his way in with ST's, a reserve role and injuries.The thing is though, Rodgers DID run those spread sets against the Cowboys and handled it fine. That part is not an issue.

[Deputy Nutz]

I see most everyone is fairly giddy over day 1, but...

I like the Brohm pick, but that has as much to do with the fact that I don't like Rodgers - in general I give GM's a pass on QB's - they're next to impossible to project.

I will agree that QBs are hard to predict.

Anyway, the Nelson and Lee picks are troubling to me - Nelson b/c TT creates another log jam situation, and Lee b/c he seems to fit the Packers preferred template for evaluating college CB's - raw physical ability, little experience, and virtually no production. PFW's write up of Lee sounds eeirly like Ahmad Carroll... Carroll, Antwan Edwards, et al... the Packers don't have a very good track record of evaluating college corners.

Now I begin to disagree with you. First, Lee had 22 starts under his belt at Auburn in the SEC. That is not inexperience, that is almost two years of starts. he had over a 100 tackles, and 4 picks as senior, thats production, you seemed to miss out on that. He has experience returning kicks, and he is a demon covering kicks something that he will add right away when he steps on the field. He isn't going to root out Harris or Woodson, so he is going to contribute right away on special teams.

Nelson is all production without a name, similar to Greg Jennings, and Murphy, tough blue collar receivers that just simply catch the ball and score touchdowns. He isn't going to come in and compete with Jennings or Driver, but he is going to push Jones, and move either Martin or Robinson off the roster. He is a BPA on Thompson's wish list. The Packers use a lot of 4 receiver sets so he is going to add to the offense right away.

The Nelson pick speaks to another problem - building a bloody team. This is two years in a row... The Harrell pick pushed Williams off the roster - will the Nelson pick push Jennings off the roster after '09???

Pushed an over priced rotation guy off the roster for a second round pick. Thompson did a very fair thing for Williams he sent him to a team willing to give him 6 million a year on a multi-year deal. Harrell didn't contribute as much as you want in 2007, but to consider a pick a washout because of their first year is ridiculous. Thinking that Jennings is going to be bumped off this roster after 2009 is just as ridiculous. Jennings is going to be the number one receiver for the next ten years for Green Bay. If you haven't noticed Thompson is banking money just for fellas like Jennings, Hawk, maybe Grant, and other players already on the roster. Nelson is going to be on this roster to contribute not force somebody off this roster. Driver is still playing great but he is in his 30s has who knows how much tread is left on those tires, one serious ankle, or knee injury will most likely end any value left in his career. Nelson and Jones are players that will slowly move up the roster. Jennings is here to stay, period.

So how does this make the team better??? Harrell clearly isn't better than Williams, so not only did we lose a better player at a position of strength already, we wasted a 1st round pick that could have been used at another position.

Nelson makes this team better because it gives the offense another weapon for a young QB. what don't you understand about that? This team is not have holes that need a starter immediately. You make a move that is going to add to your roster, not only for 2008 but for four or five seasons.

Harrell was 2007. He will be competing for a starting spot and at least a position in the top three defensive tackles. he makes this team better because he projected to be one of the best defensive linemen in the country going into the 2006 college football season. He fought through some tough injuries and should be ready to go in 2008. You judge him too quickly

So here comes Nelson... let's say he's a hell of a player - ok, great. A lot of people are already projecting Jennings to a big payday in '10 FA and what are the odds that TT will pay him? probably not good; so, we let Jennings walk, Driver will be strictly a possesseion guy by then; James Jones showed some ability last year, I'd imagine Jones won't be happy as a 4th receiver and will make up his mind fairly quickly to bolt as soon as FA allows.

Again why does Jennings leave? Why isn't he going to get paid? I mean unless 2007 was a total mirage, but the Packers would be fools to let a receiver that is already one of the top 20 in the NFL go. With plenty of 4 and 5 receiver sets there will be plenty of balls to go around in the Packers offense. No one needs to go any where unless Driver retires. Comparing Jenning's talent and contributions to William's contributions and ability is a reach. Jennings is way more talented and way more valuable[b]

TT created a mess at DT last year and not only wasted a 1st round pick, he ran off a damn good player in Williams. Now he drafts Nelson, and will likely run off Jennings, Jones, or both.

Thats your opinion but I think you are being way to over dramatic about this. I was actually happy we had Harrell after Jolly, and Cole went down for the season, and Pickett missing the last two games of the season. I really wouldn't call that a mess.

The Brohm and Rodgers picks could also be used as object lessons in Teddism... We're told Rodgers was "a steal", "too much value to pass up", blah, blah, blah - does anyone really think the guy will lead us to a SB??? Of course not.

Again, why all the drama? How do you know if Rodgers is the one to lead us to a Super Bowl? He has sat behind Favre for three years. I certainly didn't expect him to take Favre's spot while Favre was still playing. So the jury is still out on him either way you slice it.

Either way you slice it - one of the two of them is a wasted pick. If Brohm becomes the starter, then TT wasted the '05 1st round pick. If Rodgers stays the starter (something I seriously doubt) and Brohm rides the bench, the best we could hope for would be a trade in 3-4 years - so did we spend a 2rd rd pick this year essentially to trade it for a future 2nd or 3rd round pick. More wheel spinning than team building.

Packers only have one legit qb on the roster before they selected Brohm. when they selected Rodgers they had Favre and Nall and Favre kept mentioning retirement every third sentence. So a competent back up and an eventual starter was the call, probably the right call at this point considering the Packers now have a groomed replacement for Favre ready to go. Brohm now fills the role that has been vacated with the Rodgers becoming the starter and Favre retiring. It is really quite simple.

I think Brohm has a much better chance than Rodgers so I'm not viewing the day as a total loss, but the drafting of Nelson, regardless of whether he turns out to be a player or not, speaks to what I consider to be a fundamentally debilitating flaw in TT - complete and total tunnel vision with respect to each and every player, regardless of position, and without any regard to building a roster.

I think you are way off base with your analysis of Thompson's tunnel vision theory, but everyone has their own opinions on Ted Thompson and the draft certainly brings them all out.

In the end, TT's philosophy seems to be self-torpedoing... draft the highest rated guy on your board, regardless of whether that means you have to move another good guy off your roster on the other end.

I guess if that means moving Robinson or Martin off your roster then you are right, only if you consider them good players. Lee replaces Walker, Brohm's position I already went over. So this theory really doesn't stand up.

I've said this before - I think it is entirely possible that TT is a great talent evaluator, that can continually supply a franchise with good talent, but will likely never be able to build a championship team.

He built an NFC North Champion, and a team that was one game away from the Super Bowl, he has earn my trust, which I am sure means very little to Ted Thompson.

[Tony Oday]

Our offense isnt a QB intensive system in the fact that you need a strong arm QB to run it...when Favre tried his old ways he got hammered. Cue Rogers in against the Cowboys and he executed correctly.

Can Rogers last all year? Yeah just as well as his line protects him! Good god he has some mobility and played the rest of his first game on a broken ankle? Isnt that something to get a gold star? Its not like he is going down to Hammy issues or something.

Poppigna in my mind will make another jump this year and hope he pushes hard.

WR is a strength however in two plays you could be down two WR and we all know that, Jennings has been hurt in the past and Driver gets hammered across the middle he wont stay healthy forever.

I like the draft thus far because one thing TT has done is made all the naysayers wrong...

[packerbacker1234]

First off - Nelson WONT BE pushing Jennings off the roster. Like it or not, Jennings, especially last season, has shown that he is a top flight WR in the NFC. In fact, even Driver commented how he thought Jennings should of been in the probowl instead of himself, but thats all name recognition. Jennings was a no name going into this year, and still is relativly unknown nationally. It took driver many, many good years before finally getting recognition.

Nelson may turn out to be great and all, but Jennings job shouldn't be in ANY jeopardy. Will he be due a payday soon? Sure, and I think if we keep managing the cap like he keeps doing, we can afford everyone's payday. Afterall, the one thing you can't say thompson hasn't done in recent memory is give players there due payday. He did it with Barnett and Harris already. Ryan Grant, if he has another good year, will most likely get his the next season, and Jennings should be coming along right with it. Driver wont be around forever, and a Jones/Nelson battle to take the 2nd starting WR spot should be the bigger concern. I like Jones, and sure Nelson looks promising, but this pick clearly shows that the packers are not comfortable, down the road, with Martin/Robinson becoming our slot WR. Essentially, thats what this pick is for - when driver retires we have THREE very solid WR's hitting their primes.

The pick at CB is always a question. Most picks PERIOD are busts in the NFL, and CB is a tough choice. While there are some that make it (obviously) the vast majority of CB picks are a complete bust.

QB was frankly just a need. Like rodgers or not, he has to stay on the field, and following a legend usually leads to you being out of town after two years. We just went one game from the super bowl. If rodgers fails to get us a playoff birth, he could easily be ran out of town (frankly, with this team, we should be in the playoffs this year, and if we don't it will all be on Rodgers because Favre is the only significant difference from last season to this one).

[Scott Campbell]

The Brohm and Rodgers picks could also be used as object lessons in Teddism... We're told Rodgers was "a steal", "too much value to pass up", blah, blah, blah - does anyone really think the guy will lead us to a SB??? Of course not.




PackerRats Classic.

[swede]

PackerRats Classic.

That is some deep tunnel mining, son.

[Deputy Nutz]

I can't believe I was defending Thompson.

[Scott Campbell]

That is some deep tunnel mining, son.


There's gold in them there hills.

[bobblehead]

I can't believe I was defending Thompson.

And you were right. Your football knowledge is unquestionable. Your posting style is entertaining. the only criticism would be that you were too attached to our franchise QB to see the big picture. No crime, and I hope you continue posting.

[Freak Out]

Where the hell is Packnut and the girls I wonder?

[Bretsky]

Hey, I made sense in here........lol.......


shameless thread bumpers

[swede]

KYPack is gone a few months now also.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And you were right. Your football knowledge is unquestionable. Your posting style is entertaining. the only criticism would be that you were too attached to our franchise QB to see the big picture. No crime, and I hope you continue posting.

I agree. I want to see you have the same passion for Aaron that you had for Brett (e.g. throwing cups against the wall at the bar after he threw a killer interception against the Bears). :)

[Lurker64]

The important thing to remember about the draft is that absolutely everybody is wrong all the time about the draft.

[Deputy Nutz]

I agree. I want to see you have the same passion for Aaron that you had for Brett (e.g. throwing cups against the wall at the bar after he threw a killer interception against the Bears). :)

Ain't never going to happen again. I don't have those emotional highs or lows with sports anymore. It really is a breath of fresh air for me. Sure I like watching the Packers more than say the Buffalo Bills, but I am not over committing emotionally any more, way more lows than highs. I like Aaron, always have but he isn't Brett and that is probably a good thing for me.

[Bretsky]

ya.....you don't have to keep as many cups around to throw against walls :)

Cheers,
B

[HarveyWallbangers]

We need to bump some more threads. :)

[get louder at lambeau]

Ain't never going to happen again. I don't have those emotional highs or lows with sports anymore. It really is a breath of fresh air for me. Sure I like watching the Packers more than say the Buffalo Bills, but I am not over committing emotionally any more, way more lows than highs. I like Aaron, always have but he isn't Brett and that is probably a good thing for me.

That's unfortunately rational for someone with the name of Deputy Nutz.

[Scott Campbell]

We need to bump some more threads. :)


I was looking for something specific, which I couldn't find. But there's so much funny crap out there you wouldn't even believe it.

[sheepshead]

PackerRats Classic.

Indeed, but that sh*t goes on on every board. Everyone is a GM wannabe.

[bobblehead]

I agree. I want to see you have the same passion for Aaron that you had for Brett (e.g. throwing cups against the wall at the bar after he threw a killer interception against the Bears). :)

When he threw that I was screaming "We traded that fucking QB....WTF!!! Why does Urlacher have half of his career picks against us and always in the fucking RED ZONE!! Right between his fucking numbers" I'm pretty sure that is an exact quote. Nothing got broke, and no animals were harmed during this outburst.

For the record, that is the second one he has had against Rodgers like that. Its fucked up, and I thought we broke that annual right of passage this season, but the football gods simply waited for the most painful possible time to do it.

[wist43]

I was actually going to start a new thread about Rodgers... he certainly has transformed his delivery, and those years on the bench behind Favre have paid off.

In today's NFL, QB are thrust into the starting lineup within a year typically, and too many of them flame out under the pressure... there certainly is something to be said for the old school method of QB development.

Two things have landed us in the SB above all others... Rodgers emergence, and the switch to a 3-4. If you're going to run the offensive system we run, the only shot you have is to have an elite QB - again, what are the odds of landing that guy??? Not good... you can say TT did some Nostrodamusing with Rodgers, but truth be told, QB's are next to impossible to project, and I really don't bother trying to evaluate them b/c there's just too much that goes into the formula that we can't see.

As for the 3-4... that speaks for itself. Loved TT's drafting of Raji, wasn't so sure about Matthews, but of course he's panned out big time... in a 3-4, it is the pass rush OLB that stirs the drink. Because Rodgers turned out, and b/c we switched to the 3-4, I'm hoping we can win multiple titles with this regime.

[pbmax]

And if Driver is limited or retired by '10, a healthy Jennings is likely going to get his contract. Not guaranteed, but likely.

Boom, roasted. Keep both with extensions you idiot message board person!

[pbmax]

I was actually going to start a new thread about Rodgers... he certainly has transformed his delivery, and those years on the bench behind Favre have paid off.

In today's NFL, QB are thrust into the starting lineup within a year typically, and too many of them flame out under the pressure... there certainly is something to be said for the old school method of QB development.

Two things have landed us in the SB above all others... Rodgers emergence, and the switch to a 3-4. If you're going to run the offensive system we run, the only shot you have is to have an elite QB - again, what are the odds of landing that guy??? Not good... you can say TT did some Nostrodamusing with Rodgers, but truth be told, QB's are next to impossible to project, and I really don't bother trying to evaluate them b/c there's just too much that goes into the formula that we can't see.

As for the 3-4... that speaks for itself. Loved TT's drafting of Raji, wasn't so sure about Matthews, but of course he's panned out big time... in a 3-4, it is the pass rush OLB that stirs the drink. Because Rodgers turned out, and b/c we switched to the 3-4, I'm hoping we can win multiple titles with this regime.

And that is the flaw with armchair GM'ing (not just you wist, but all of us). We just don't have access to enough. If Andrew Brandt is to be believed, they knew Rodgers was going to be good enough his first year. Even when everyone was worried about the throwing motion and the poor preseason, Brandt said the team knew he could do it very early. Even knew his character would play out as a team leader (from his practice squad team building, I suppose).

And Nutz, welcome back. Same level of passion or no, this place is smarter with you. And for KYPack, we need to send that guy an email soon.

[denverYooper]

When he threw that I was screaming "We traded that fucking QB....WTF!!! Why does Urlacher have half of his career picks against us and always in the fucking RED ZONE!! Right between his fucking numbers" I'm pretty sure that is an exact quote. Nothing got broke, and no animals were harmed during this outburst.

For the record, that is the second one he has had against Rodgers like that. Its fucked up, and I thought we broke that annual right of passage this season, but the football gods simply waited for the most painful possible time to do it.

I thought the same thing

[Little Whiskey]

those years on the bench behind Favre have paid off.



I wonder if it was "learning" from Farve or the fact that the coaches could work on what was wrong with rodgers (delivery and mechanics) so he could develop instead of him needing to learn the offense and learn everyone's defense.

[Scott Campbell]

I was actually going to start a new thread about Rodgers... he certainly has transformed his delivery, and those years on the bench behind Favre have paid off.

In today's NFL, QB are thrust into the starting lineup within a year typically, and too many of them flame out under the pressure... there certainly is something to be said for the old school method of QB development.

Two things have landed us in the SB above all others... Rodgers emergence, and the switch to a 3-4. If you're going to run the offensive system we run, the only shot you have is to have an elite QB - again, what are the odds of landing that guy??? Not good... you can say TT did some Nostrodamusing with Rodgers, but truth be told, QB's are next to impossible to project, and I really don't bother trying to evaluate them b/c there's just too much that goes into the formula that we can't see.

As for the 3-4... that speaks for itself. Loved TT's drafting of Raji, wasn't so sure about Matthews, but of course he's panned out big time... in a 3-4, it is the pass rush OLB that stirs the drink. Because Rodgers turned out, and b/c we switched to the 3-4, I'm hoping we can win multiple titles with this regime.


Didn't mean to single you out Wist. Sorry. I always respected your posting even if I don't agree with parts of it.

[Scott Campbell]

And that is the flaw with armchair GM'ing (not just you wist, but all of us).


All the speculation about Ted's ego was ridiculous. Much of the criticism centered around made up "facts" about phony motives.

So this trip to the Superbowl is very satisfying to me on many levels.

[wist43]

I wonder if it was "learning" from Farve or the fact that the coaches could work on what was wrong with rodgers (delivery and mechanics) so he could develop instead of him needing to learn the offense and learn everyone's defense.

I think one of the main things that necessarily means that QB's take longer to develop is simply the maturity factor... we forget, these guys really are just kids, and everyone matures at a different rate.

[wist43]

Didn't mean to single you out Wist. Sorry. I always respected your posting even if I don't agree with parts of it.

The big thing for me was switching to the 3-4... as I said about QB's, they're just too tough to project; but, other positions, and philosophy - I'll debate that all day long.

We got lucky with Rodgers... and not just that he turned out to be good, but that he may turn out to be great!!! Wow, really, I can't believe the leap he's made... it's hard to change your delivery, and had he not been able to do that, he would have struggled mightily to succeed. Rodgers still has an unorthodox delivery, having developed into more of a jump/throw... ball comes out of there very quickly. It certainly isn't the delivery he came into the league with.

[Smidgeon]

The big thing for me was switching to the 3-4... as I said about QB's, they're just too tough to project; but, other positions, and philosophy - I'll debate that all day long.

We got lucky with Rodgers... and not just that he turned out to be good, but that he may turn out to be great!!! Wow, really, I can't believe the leap he's made... it's hard to change your delivery, and had he not been able to do that, he would have struggled mightily to succeed. Rodgers still has an unorthodox delivery, having developed into more of a jump/throw... ball comes out of there very quickly. It certainly isn't the delivery he came into the league with.

At least the delivery is unorthodox good instead of unorthodox bad (**cough**TimTebow**cough**)

[Little Whiskey]

At least the delivery is unorthodox good instead of unorthodox bad (**cough**TimTebow**cough**)

or just straight up bad with a side order of whine (***cough**Jay Cutler***cough***)

[Lurker64]

Philip Rivers also has a very unorthodox delivery, but it doesn't keep him from racking up impressive stats. Playoff wins are another issue, but I can hardly say that's his fault entirely.

[Smidgeon]

or just straight up bad with a side order of whine (***cough**Jay Cutler***cough***)

Why are you concerned about Cutler? He plays for the Bears, and thus I am happy with bad. :D

[Little Whiskey]

Why are you concerned about Cutler? He plays for the Bears, and thus I am happy with bad. :D

there were some on this board who thought he should be in GreenBay.

[Packers4Glory]

QB mechanics are overrated and mostly just bs talk. Plenty of good quality QB's don't have the best mechanics. What makes a QB good or great is

1. arm strength (enough to make the throws needed. He doesn't have to have a rocket)
2. Vision.
3. Reading the defense and knowing where to go w/ the ball
4. footwork. Can fall into mechanics technically, but just dropping back correctly and quickly as well as being able to step up or scramble to buy time.

How the SOB actually delivers the ball is about as overrated and overstated as it gets.

Most importantly, an O-line.

Many teams spend tons of money and high picks on a QB, and then promptly toss him in behind a horrible line. Pretty much a one way ticket to failure and a ruined career. (Carr)

also

Stability in your coaching staff. Alex Smith stood ZERO chance and I don't think Rodgers would have fared any better.


People really should take note on how Rodgers was developed. I think at least 2 years serving as the back up and maybe getting spot duty is ideal. Don't bow to the pressure of getting your high dollar draft pick out there at all costs...because its quite likely its setting him up for failure.

[Scott Campbell]

Hanie sure was a side armer.

[mraynrand]

Many teams spend tons of money and high picks on a QB, and then promptly toss him in behind a horrible line. Pretty much a one way ticket to failure and a ruined career. (Carr)


I thought I heard someone call my name!

http://www.packertime.com/2001/081101/photos/2-8.jpg

[sharpe1027]

1. arm strength (enough to make the throws needed. He doesn't have to have a rocket)
2. Vision.
3. Reading the defense and knowing where to go w/ the ball
4. footwork. Can fall into mechanics technically, but just dropping back correctly and quickly as well as being able to step up or scramble to buy time. .

If you don't have much accuracy, the rest doesn't matter that much. Really good accuracy can make up a lack of quality in the other areas too. :)

[Lurker64]

If you don't have much accuracy, the rest doesn't matter that much. Really good accuracy can make up a lack of quality in the other areas too. :)

Accuracy is just a function of things like footwork, delivery, and anticipation. It's not like quarterbacks have some magical "accuracy" statistic that dictates where the ball will go.

[Smidgeon]

How the SOB actually delivers the ball is about as overrated and overstated as it gets.

I don't entirely agree. The speed of a delivery, I think, would matter a lot. A lightning quick release is way more desireable than a long wind-up given identical accuracy.

[RashanGary]

Phillip Rivers said one QB he admired in the league was Aaron Rodgers, for his tight mechanics.


For the record, I love his quick sort of "jump" pass. If you ever see pictures of Rodgers throwing, the ball is always coming out at the highest point possible. For a guy who stands 6'2", he has a delivery like he's 6'4".

Listening to Aikman the last few weeks and reading what Rivers said, I'm beginning to think AR has near perfect throwing mechanics. His release is quick as a whip. He gets the ball out at the highest possible point over lineman with pinpoint accuracy. He's unique, but his throwing mechanics are respected and admired around the NFL.

http://joenicholsonphotos.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/_v5g0067.jpg

[pbmax]

The big thing for me was switching to the 3-4... as I said about QB's, they're just too tough to project; but, other positions, and philosophy - I'll debate that all day long.

We got lucky with Rodgers... and not just that he turned out to be good, but that he may turn out to be great!!! Wow, really, I can't believe the leap he's made... it's hard to change your delivery, and had he not been able to do that, he would have struggled mightily to succeed. Rodgers still has an unorthodox delivery, having developed into more of a jump/throw... ball comes out of there very quickly. It certainly isn't the delivery he came into the league with.

I think with Rodgers there was not much to change except his carrying point, which was a Tedford thing. So 95% of his delivery was normal or optimal, the high carrying point was the bone of contention. And even McCarthy said simply by not emphasizing it, it will come down naturally.

[Little Whiskey]

scott mitchell good mechanics?