Obama and J Wright

[Kiwon]

That was quite a performance that Jeremiah Wright put on at the National Press Club today.

For all the talk of reconciliation, Jeremiah Wright could care less about a post-racial approach that many Obama supporters are hoping for. He's an old-line liberal, a Black Liberation theologist that basically holds the American government and anglo-Americans in contempt.

The largely non-Christian, liberal press corp got an earful from him this morning as the Q and A time turned into an opportunity for J Wright to mock them and broader American society as well. The members of the press gave him a standing ovation after his opening remarks but little did they realize what they were in for when the Q and A started.

A couple of highlights:

- He again suggested that America got what it deserved on 9-11.

- He implied that America and its armies control the world and are imperialistic.

- He said the U.S. government has never apologized to blacks for the sin of slavery.

- He put forth a religious universalism seemingly to contradict the exclusivism of a John 14:6 quote mentioned in a question to him. The obvious conclusion is there are many pathways to God besides Christianity.

- He reiterated that it was entirely plausible that the U.S. government created the AIDS virus to kill blacks.

- He basically again portrayed Obama as a politician that will say anything to get elected.

- He mocked the female presenter and press members' written questions. At one point he snatched her notes out of her hand in a confrontational way.

- He made many silly gestures to his cheering supporters as a way to mock the press members even as the presenter was reading the next question to him. He perpetuated an obvious black versus white atmosphere while his supporters encouraged him on.

- He had his bodyguards on stage with him, Black Muslim-style (minus the bow ties), as if the press members would actually harm him.

- He insulted "white" Christians as basically calling themselves something that they are not as if he had the monopoly on spiritual truth.

- He complained several times that the Bill Moyers interview edited out key parts as if to suggest that Moyers manipulated the video to deliberately portray him in a bad light.

- He defended and would not denounce Louis Farrakhan.

- He suggested himself as a suitable Vice-President candidate.

Bottom line, Obama will get 90% of the black vote no matter what to go along with many liberal whites that are going to vote for Obama simply for the "change" aspect.

However, many others who might be considering to vote for Obama will turn away from him after hearing the extremism and seeing the contempt that J Wright has for much of America.

Jeremiah Wright says that the Black Church is being attacked by the press and he is defending it. However, the underlying message he communicates is that white America is the main problem for black people today and has been since the very beginning. In other words, almost all whites, including democrats really just don’t get it. There is an inherent moral bankruptcy with whites that is readily evidenced.

Obama has a problem. He had better denounce and distance himself from J Wright and fast. This guy is not going away and he seems to relish the attention. The press that has practically anointed Obama as President and are trying their best to see him elected will not take today's public spanking by Jeremiah Wright very well at all. You will see some in the media swing back to Clinton.

J Wright is nothing but trouble. He is divisive and he doesn't care. If Obama wants to bring people together with a message of hope and change then he better come out and disassociate himself from his former pastor very quickly.

[packinpatland]

He certainly isn't helping the Obama cause.

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** You’re so vain, you probably think this campaign is about you: After addressing the NAACP yesterday in Detroit, Jeremiah Wright travels to the heart of the media beast -- the National Press Club in DC -- where he has been speaking this morning. At this point, no matter one's political inexperience, Wright has to know he's not helping his friend; his decision to go public and defend his reputation at this point in the campaign is doing nothing to help Obama, if anything, it's leading some to believe he's actually trying to sabotage him. He's hurting him and hurting him very badly. Frankly, it’s as selfish of a move as we've seen in some time. Imagine, for example, if Norman Hsu or Vicki Iseman were doing publicity tours right now. Maybe, if there's a silver lining for Obama, he's giving Obama a very easy chance to simply walk away. Remember, Obama didn't toss Wright under the bus, but Wright appears to be doing that to Obama’s candidacy. Still, if Wright Vol. 1, “bitter,” and Pennsylvania didn’t move superdelegates, what will? Nevertheless, Obama seems to be starting off this week in about as bad of shape as we've seen in him in some time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think it may be time for Reverand Wright to move on to his just reward. The Clintons would know how to deal with this problem.

Actually I doubt the Rev is doing much damage at the moment, any Dem who cares about Wright has already accounted for him. He will be a piece of the smearing next fall.

[packinpatland]

Now if Hillary would just play 'nice' :wink:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24353211/

[Jimx29]

Wrights doing this so it tanks Obamas campaign, letting Hillary win, and then he'll really have a bunch of shit to piss and moan about

[Harlan Huckleby]

Clinton has waged a more negative campaign than Obama, but the Obama supporters have been FAR dirtier than Clinton backers. The press smear her 24-7, then ironically claim the moral high ground. See above article referenced by PackinPatland. Clinton has not engaged in dirty politics, she's criticized Obama's genuine weaknesses as a leader.

Obama will win the nomination, but his rightous, starry-eyed followers have alienated too many people to pull together a winning coalition for the general election.

I dearly hope that Clinton continues to kick Obama in the nuts all the way to the convention.

I notice that Obama declined the opportunity to debate Clinton without a moderator. That would have been a great opportunity to see what he is made of!! Obama is a smart, smooth, professorial guy, but he's second rate in discussing issues. He's wise to run and hide!

[packinpatland]

Clinton has waged a more negative campaign than Obama, but the Obama supporters have been FAR dirtier than Clinton backers. The press smear her 24-7, then ironically claim the moral high ground. See above article referenced by PackinPatland. Clinton has not engaged in dirty politics, she's criticized Obama's genuine weaknesses as a leader.

Obama will win the nomination, but his rightous, starry-eyed followers have alienated too many people to pull together a winning coalition for the general election.

I dearly hope that Clinton continues to kick Obama in the nuts all the way to the convention.

I notice that Obama declined the opportunity to debate Clinton without a moderator. That would have been a great opportunity to see what he is made of!! Obama is a smart, smooth, professorial guy, but he's second rate in discussing issues. He's wise to run and hide!


The type of debate Hillary wanted was a 'Lincoln-Douglas' .........

[Joemailman]

Obama disassociated himself from Wright's comments, but refused to throw his former pastor under the bus. Unfortunately for Obama, Wright hasn't been nearly as gracious. He has been given a platform to voice his views, and doesn't seem to care if doing so hurts Obama.

Unless this torpedoes Obama's nomination, I don't think it will end up being a huge issue. Will all the serious issues in the world right now, I think voters will resent it if McCain tries to make this an issue in the fall. I don't think McCain will, because he is vulnerable too if this turns into a dirty campaign. Obama and McCain both have the qualifications to be President in my opinion, but neither is a great candidate fir sainthood.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama disassociated himself from Wright's comments, but refused to throw his former pastor under the bus.

yes, Obama tried to have it both ways. He's all for his pastor, and he didn't know about the bad parts.

Obama's claim of ignorance is not plausible. Rev. Wright says Obama is not being straight, he's just saying what he has to say as a politician.

Is the public wrong to hold Wright's views against Obama? There are good arguments on both sides of this question.

I'm just now listening to a panel discussion of three guests on PBS Newshour. All three on the panel believe Obama is simply a victim of Rev Wright, and they offer advise on how Obama can get past this challenge. When is the last time you saw a panel discussion with zero difference in opinion? The press has dropped all pretense of journalistic integrity and are simply working to salvage Obama.

With all the support Obama gets from the press, today I see Clinton has gone from 5 points behind in Indiana last week to 9 points ahead. Just one poll, but why is the public going against the press so strongly?

Obama cravenly ducked-out of the Lincoln-Douglass style debate, claiming he is too busy. Not a peep from the mainstream press. Just some laughter from conservative columnists like Bill Kristol: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/28/opinion/28kristol.htm


all the serious issues in the world right now, I think voters will resent it if McCain tries to make this an issue in the fall.

Presidents aren't elected on issues. It's mostly likeability and personal identification.

[Kiwon]

Strip away the media hype and spin and none of the three top candidates (I'll leave out Ralph Nader and Ron Paul) are really appealing choices.

Some people vote strictly on party affiliation, some on identity, some on ideology, some on more selfish "what's in it for me" reasons, etc. Many simply vote for who is the lesser evil of the others.

However, as forgiving as people are, a sizeable segment, IMHO, will not vote for someone whose loudest supporters flat out label them as racists simply due to historic injustices and the citizenship they hold.

Individuals who try to treat everyone fairly are being tarred with the racist label for no good reason and can't help but be offended. They are perpetually judged because of what their or someone else's ancestors did.

And there is no middle ground with extremists like J Wright. Black Liberation theology doesn't allow for it. The ship won't be righted for them until financial reparations for slavery have been paid. That's it. That's the full measure of what "reconciliation" means to his ilk. Like J Wright said this morning, integration isn't even the highest benchmark in racial reconciliation, white America acknowledging its sins and then paying for them are.

Obama will have a hard time winning over offended supporters who are widely regarded by other Obama supporters as racists and held responsible for most everything wrong in their lives.

J Wright represents a militancy within the black community for which there is no moderation. They are right and you are wrong. Peace and harmony only progresses as others compromise and accept their worldview.

Obama really does need to choose which group he will court because he simply can't have it both ways.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Looking for Mr. Wright
The minister reveals that he's as radical and bigoted as his critics insist.
Jonah Goldberg, April 29, 2008

God bless the Rev. Jeremiah Wright!

After Barack Obama gave his big race speech in mid-March, many critics noted that the Illinois senator had thrown his own grandmother under the bus to defend his controversial pastor. Well, Wright proved over the last few days that he would not be outdone. He not only threw Obama under the bus, he chucked much of the liberal and mainstream media under there with him. If this keeps up, to paraphrase Roy Scheider in "Jaws," he's gonna need a bigger bus.

For six weeks, Obama's biggest supporters have diligently argued that to so much as mention Wright is in effect racist. When Hillary Rodham Clinton said that Wright wouldn't have been her pastor, Andrew Sullivan gasped on his Atlantic blog that this was "a new low" in the election. When Lanny J. Davis, Clinton's consummate spinner, defended her on CNN by describing what Wright actually said, CNN's Anderson Cooper lambasted Davis for daring to even repeat Wright's comments. Newsweek's Joe Klein chimed in, "You're spreading the poison right now."

Obama and his defenders have repeatedly insisted that the bits from Wright's sermons that got wide circulation last month had been taken "out of context." His infamous sound bites were grounded in concrete theological or factual foundations, they claim. He was quoting other people. He's done good things. Nothing to see here, folks.

And so God bless Wright because he's left all of these folks holding a giant, steaming bag of ... well, let's just call it a bag of "context."

Let's start with the news out of his speeches Sunday and Monday: Wright, Obama's mentor and former pastor, is worse than we thought. He's a bigot, at least by the standards usually reserved for white people such as former Harvard President Lawrence Summers or "The Bell Curve" author Charles Murray.

On Sunday in Detroit, he explained to 10,000 people at the Fight for Freedom Fund dinner of the NAACP -- an organization adept at taking offense at far less racist comments from nonblacks -- that whites have an inherent "left-brain cognitive, object-oriented learning style. Logical and analytical," while blacks "learn not from an object but from a subject. They are right-brain, subject-oriented in their learning style. That means creative and intuitive. The two worlds have different ways of learning."

Blacks even have better rhythm, Wright explained.

CNN carried the speech live, and news anchor Soledad O'Brien reported from the scene that it was "a home run."

Then, Monday morning at the National Press Club, Wright attempted to clear the air about all of the supposedly deceptive sound bites he's been reduced to.

So, does he stand by his "God damn America" statement?

Well, yeah. He explained that until American leaders apologize to Japan for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as to black Americans for slavery and racism, we will remain a damnable nation.

What about that bit about America's chickens coming home to roost on 9/11? Yep, we heard him right. "You cannot do terrorism on other people and expect it not to come back on you; those are biblical principles," he explained.

Asked whether he stood by his assertion that the U.S. government created HIV as part of a genocidal program to wipe out the black race, Wright mostly dodged but ultimately offered this nondenial denial: "I believe our government is capable of doing anything." He also offered a zesty defense of Louis Farrakhan -- "one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century" -- and dismissed criticism of Farrakhan as an anti-Semite.

To cap it off, Wright threw Obama under the bus. First, the pastor explained, Obama himself had taken Wright out of context. Moreover, Obama neither denounced nor distanced himself from Wright. And, besides, anything that Obama says on such matters is just stuff "politicians say." They "do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls." So much for Obama's new politics.

On Friday, Wright appeared on Bill Moyers' PBS TV show, in which Moyers all but shouted "Amen!" every time Wright took a breath. The impression viewers were supposed to take away: Wright is on the side of the angels, not like those "Swift-boating" crazies at Fox News.

But then Obama himself told "Fox News Sunday" that he considers Wright fair game -- as long as you don't quote him out of context.

It's a deal.

Wright is every bit as radical as his detractors claimed and explodes Obama's messianic rhetoric about standing foursquare against divisiveness. Which is why that chorus you hear rising up from the John McCain and Clinton campaigns sounds an awful lot like this: "God damn Jeremiah Wright? No, no, no: God bless Jeremiah Wright!"

[Joemailman]

So now you've taken up with Jonah Goldberg? :roll:

I think Bob Herbert wrote a better article. But that's just me. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/opinion/29herbert.html?ref=opinion

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jonah Goldberg is an extremely smart columnist. He's very right wing, but so what, that doesn't mean he is always wrong. I think he has done a beautiful job here of nailing the landscape.

All of the liberal columnists are in the tank for Obama. Bob Hebert wrote a column a couple months ago calling Clinton's "as far as I know" comment the dirtiest moment of the campaign. I beleive Hebert was sincere in thinking this, but it shows how biased he is.

The liberal columnists are now rallying against Wright. Too funny! Hebert and Eugene Robinson think they are being couragous and even-handed by taking this position, when in fact they are just scrambling to save Obama. They praised Obama when he stood by Wright a month ago, and that move was also just a cynical political calculation.

The only interesting columns about Wright are being written by the right-wing columnists. There is zero critical analysis of Obama in general from the left. Kristol hit a homerun:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/28/opinion/28kristol.html

The liberal columnists who are calling on Obama to completely repudiate Wright are just wrong. It is too late. Obama stuck by Wright and his weekly sermons for 20 years, he can't now credibly argue he just discovered he's a kook. Obama's best play now is to say nothing and let the situation die-down as best as it can.

Obama is in no-win situation. He calculated the risks & rewards when he chose Rev. Wright's church to advance his political base years ago. You might say that Barack Obama's chickens have come home to roost.

[Joemailman]

There are a number of good conservative columnists, but Goldberg ain't one of them. But I realize you've gotten to the point where any columnist critical of Obama is a smart columnist, and only conservative columnists have anything interesting to say about the Wright situation.

There are all kings of columnists of all political stripes writing about why this is hurting Obama, and what he should, or should have, done about it. Nobody seems to be writing about how this affects the average person worried about the war or the economy. Probably because it doesn't matter to the average person as much as it does to the media hordes.

[Freak Out]

What the hell does it matter what the Reverend said when we all know that Obama is a Muslim? :)

[Joemailman]

Obviously you missed my post from a while back about Obama converting to Judaism.

[Freak Out]

Obviously you missed my post from a while back about Obama converting to Judaism.

He went Sammy Davis on us and I missed it? I guess I was focusing on the horrible Miley Cyrus story and missed it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There are a number of good conservative columnists, but Goldberg ain't one of them.

There's a reason why Jonah Goldberg is widely syndicated and Bob Hebert is not.


But I realize you've gotten to the point where any columnist critical of Obama is a smart columnist, and only conservative columnists have anything interesting to say about the Wright situation.

there are plenty of bad conservative columns, George Will wrote a dumb one today on Jeremiah Wright.

Show me a liberal column that says anything critical about Obama, or goes beyond providing advice for Obama the victim, then I will reconsider my opinion. Collins & Krugman at NYTimes are occasionally thoughtful, that's all I know about. The liberal columnists are blinded when it comes to Obama.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama on March 17:
"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me .... I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community."

Obama was portrayed in heroic terms for standing by Wright.

Today Obama announces he didn't know Reverend Wright as well as he thought. I expect the liberal columnists will again praise Obama for his courage and character.

[Joemailman]

Well, I don't know if they will or not. I just think it's too bad Wright used Obama's status to thrust himself and his views into the national spotlight. He's reported to be writing a book, and I'm sure all of this attention will help. I'm just looking forward to this campaign returning to subjects that really matter.

[packinpatland]

Talk about hypocritical!
**

On Monday, Clinton -- who had said she would not have remained a member of the church under similar circumstances -- focused her criticism over Wright on presumptive GOP nominee Sen. John McCain.

The senator from Arizona last week told the North Carolina GOP not to run an ad linking the state's Democratic candidates for governor -- Richard Moore and Beverly Perdue, both Obama supporters -- to Wright.

Clinton criticized him for failing to do more to stop the ad.

"I regret the efforts by the Republicans to politicize this matter and I believe that if Sen.McCain were serious he would do more than just send a letter," she said.

[Joemailman]

It's a shrewd political move by Hillary. She criticizes McCain, and at the same time brings up the Wright issue, which doesn't help Obama. Two birds with one stone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

how is it hypocritical of Clinton? She hasn't run ads about Jeremiah Wright. She said she would have left his church when she was asked a direct question.

Clinton doesn't need to mention Jeremiah Wright. The less said the better.

[Kiwon]

Apparently, Obama is succumbing to the reality that he has to publicly divorce himself from J Wright.

He called J Wright's presentation a "spectacle" and said that Rev. Wright was not the same man that he met 20 years ago.

It's a necessary and smart move on his part. He needs to completely throw him under the bus and run over him a few times if he wants to win back moderate whites who are none too pleased that a central figure in Obama's life considers them basically the scourge of humanity.

He runs the risks of being labeled a "sell out" by some militant blacks but the bottom line is that he'll never win the White House without middle America.

Obama expresses outrage at Rev. Wright 'spectacle'

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-29-obama-wright_N.htm

[packinpatland]

Apparently, Obama is succumbing to the reality that he has to publicly divorce himself from J Wright.

He called J Wright's presentation a "spectacle" and said that Rev. Wright was not the same man that he met 20 years ago.

It's a necessary and smart move on his part. He needs to completely throw him under the bus and run over him a few times if he wants to win back moderate whites who are none too pleased that a central figure in Obama's life considers them basically the scourge of humanity.

He runs the risks of being labeled a "sell out" by some militant blacks but the bottom line is that he'll never win the White House without middle America.

Obama expresses outrage at Rev. Wright 'spectacle'

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-29-obama-wright_N.htm

He did good.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think anybody who cares about Jermemiah Wright will be impressed that Obama identified Wright as a bad man at this late stage in the drama. There can't be many people that buy Obama's disengenuous claim to be shocked. People have already decided for themselves if Obama's 20-year stint in Wright's church matters.

That said, Jeremiah Wright is just one piece of baggage. Nothing dramatic has changed.

The argument that we need to focus on issues is empty. Obama's campaign is not built on issues, it rests on Hope, Unity, Obama's appealing background & chic racial makeup, he's thin and youthful, a great speaker, a new-politics politician.

If Obama was strong on issues, he would have readily agreed to debate Clinton this week without a moderator. That's where we could really compare and contrast what they got going on upstairs.

[packinpatland]

I don't think anybody who cares about Jermemiah Wright will be impressed that Obama identified Wright as a bad man at this late stage in the drama. There can't be many people that buy Obama's disengenuous claim to be shocked. People have already decided for themselves if Obama's 20-year stint in Wright's church matters.

That said, Jeremiah Wright is just one piece of baggage. Nothing dramatic has changed.

The argument that we need to focus on issues is empty. Obama's campaign is not built on issues, it rests on Hope, Unity, Obama's appealing background & chic racial makeup, he's thin and youthful, a great speaker, a new-politics politician.

If Obama was strong on issues, he would have readily agreed to debate Clinton this week without a moderator. That's where we could really compare and contrast what they got going on upstairs.

He was smart not to agree to a debate with those 'terms'....no moderator.
When Lincoln and Douglas debated, they were gentlemen(or so we've read). Obama is a gentleman. Hillary is a not...............in ordinary times I wouldn't use this term.....but she's a bitch. Which she'd probably take as a compliment. :wink:

[Freak Out]

I don't think anybody who cares about Jermemiah Wright will be impressed that Obama identified Wright as a bad man at this late stage in the drama. There can't be many people that buy Obama's disengenuous claim to be shocked. People have already decided for themselves if Obama's 20-year stint in Wright's church matters.

That said, Jeremiah Wright is just one piece of baggage. Nothing dramatic has changed.

The argument that we need to focus on issues is empty. Obama's campaign is not built on issues, it rests on Hope, Unity, Obama's appealing background & chic racial makeup, he's thin and youthful, a great speaker, a new-politics politician.

If Obama was strong on issues, he would have readily agreed to debate Clinton this week without a moderator. That's where we could really compare and contrast what they got going on upstairs.

I would love to see them sit down with a bottle of vintage port and talk about the issues. But America does not care one bit anymore. Why would they watch something like that with shows like American Idol and lost out there? They will leave it up to the media to tell them what was said.

[packinpatland]

Yesterday in our local paper, a mom of a soldier killed in Iraq....he graduated with one of my daughers......wrote a letter to the editor. It was painful to read. She said how her son had been killed by sniper fire. She explained that she was so sad that this term 'sniper fire' has been made light of....how someone running for the highest office in this country would lie about (embellish) being under 'sniper fire' and then appear on a latenight TV show and make a joke about it....that this person would show such disrespect. This mom didn't condemn...she expressed great disappointment. She also said that she could never vote for someone like Hillary Clinton.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He was smart not to agree to a debate with those 'terms'....no moderator.
When Lincoln and Douglas debated, they were gentlemen(or so we've read). Obama is a gentleman. Hillary is a not...............in ordinary times I wouldn't use this term.....but she's a bitch. Which she'd probably take as a compliment. :wink:

I think your comments demonstrate the level of civility on the Obama side.

[texaspackerbacker]

I may have to re-assess my opinion of Wright. Anybody that HATEFUL to the media can't be all bad.

Add that to the apparently serious harm done to Obama, and Wright is the gift that keeps on giving.

Obama did NOT do himself any favors either by coming back the second day and amending his remarks on Wright from nonchalantly moderate to disingenuously critical. It's kinda like the old question: Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

As for the mother of the soldier killed by sniper fire, she is the RULE among Gold Star parents rather than the exception--disgusted with those who disparage the cause her son fought for.

[packinpatland]

He was smart not to agree to a debate with those 'terms'....no moderator.
When Lincoln and Douglas debated, they were gentlemen(or so we've read). Obama is a gentleman. Hillary is a not...............in ordinary times I wouldn't use this term.....but she's a bitch. Which she'd probably take as a compliment. :wink:

I think your comments demonstrate the level of civility on the Obama side.

Oh please...... :roll:

[Harlan Huckleby]

He was smart not to agree to a debate with those 'terms'....no moderator.
When Lincoln and Douglas debated, they were gentlemen(or so we've read). Obama is a gentleman. Hillary is a not...............in ordinary times I wouldn't use this term.....but she's a bitch. Which she'd probably take as a compliment. :wink:

I think your comments demonstrate the level of civility on the Obama side.

Oh please...... :roll:

You're saying that a person supported by half the Democratic Party is not fit to have a conversatin with because she's a bitch?

That's the equivalent of saying I'd worry for Clinton's safety to be alone on a stage with a negro.

Your hatred and uncivil talk is so ingrained that you don't even realize it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I may have to re-assess my opinion of Wright. Anybody that HATEFUL to the media can't be all bad.

I kinda like the Rev. He's damn interesting, he makes a lot of good points.

Probably he would get old, tho.

[packinpatland]

He was smart not to agree to a debate with those 'terms'....no moderator.
When Lincoln and Douglas debated, they were gentlemen(or so we've read). Obama is a gentleman. Hillary is a not...............in ordinary times I wouldn't use this term.....but she's a bitch. Which she'd probably take as a compliment. :wink:

I think your comments demonstrate the level of civility on the Obama side.

Oh please...... :roll:

You're saying that a person supported by half the Democratic Party is not fit to have a conversatin with because she's a bitch?

That's the equivalent of saying I'd worry for Clinton's safety to be alone on a stage with a negro.

Your hatred and uncivil talk is so ingrained that you don't even realize it.

HH, I am the mother of 3 daughters. I very much want to see a woman become president of these United States. I do not hate HC. I do not feel she is the best woman for the job. She is not a woman that I want my daughters to emulate.

[packinpatland]

HH...........how would you respond to the mother of the young man killed by sniper fire?

[texaspackerbacker]

I may have to re-assess my opinion of Wright. Anybody that HATEFUL to the media can't be all bad.

I kinda like the Rev. He's damn interesting, he makes a lot of good points.

Probably he would get old, tho.

Gullible as you are, Harlan, you probably believe the anti-American crap he spews. He probably has as high an opinion of the Iranian tyrants as you do.

[Harlan Huckleby]

HH, I am the mother of 3 daughters. I very much want to see a woman become president of these United States. I do not hate HC. I do not feel she is the best woman for the job. She is not a woman that I want my daughters to emulate.

that's fine. when you suggest a candidate for national office is unfit to debate, you've lost perspective and civility.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packinpatland, how do you feel about Condoleeza Rice, a truly great competent and intelligent person who happens to be both female and black, and has no issues of honesty or the many other foibles of Hillary?

[Harlan Huckleby]

HH...........how would you respond to the mother of the young man killed by sniper fire?

I think she's lost her marbles. There's no connection between Clinton's exaggeration and what happened to her son. She hates Clinton, and is using her as a foil.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Gullible as you are, Harlan, you probably believe the anti-American crap he spews. He probably has as high an opinion of the Iranian tyrants as you do.

Just because I see the Iranian regime in sophisticated terms rather than as cartoon characters doesn't mean I have a high opinion of them.

[packinpatland]

HH...........how would you respond to the mother of the young man killed by sniper fire?

I think she's lost her marbles. There's no connection between Clinton's exaggeration and what happened to her son. She hates Clinton, and is using her as a foil.

That's it, I'm done

[Freak Out]

Packinpatland, how do you feel about Condoleeza Rice, a truly great competent and intelligent person who happens to be both female and black, and has no issues of honesty or the many other foibles of Hillary?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rush Limbaugh put together a montage of commentators praising Obama's press conference. Most used the word "courageous."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is EXACTLY what they said about Obama in March when he said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"

I listened to a panel of 3 journalists & academics on NPR yesterday. All supported Obama, as did every caller put on the air.
Charlie Rose had a four person panel, all four gushing over Obama's brave and correct denouncing of Wright, and hoping this ends the controversy.

No mention anywhere (except right wing radio) of Obama's ludicrous claim yesterday to have just discovered Wright's true views.

Obama ignored Wright's crazy remarks about Aids, riding dirty, Goddamn America, etc. The tipping point came for Obama only when Wright went so far as to call Obama a phony politician.

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Packinpatland, how do you feel about Condoleeza Rice, a truly great competent and intelligent person who happens to be both female and black, and has no issues of honesty or the many other foibles of Hillary?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Is he talking about Condi or Jesus. :roll:

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/obamas_chickens_come_home_to_r.html

Obama's Chickens Come Home to Roost
By Robert Tracinski

Over the weekend, the Obama campaign suffered a further disaster: the Reverend Jeremiah Wright finally seized his 15 minutes of fame.

Lured by the irresistible glow of the spotlight, the reverend launched a media blitz that took him from a softball interview with Bill Moyers on Friday, to a speech to a Detroit meeting of the NAACP on Sunday, to a press conference at the National Press Club on Monday morning.

Barack Obama is now declaring himself shocked and disappointed at Wright's unrepentantly racist and anti-American views--but Obama can no longer plausibly claim innocence in this matter, because he is the one who has encouraged Wright by trying to excuse and explain his views.

This time around, the Reverend Wright told his audience Sunday night that blacks and whites have different methods of thinking. Blacks rely on "right-brain" thinking, which is more creative, while whites rely on "left-brain" thinking, which is more logical. Oh yes, and blacks have a better sense of rhythm. As Victor Davis Hanson points out, if any white man had dared to breathe these hoary stereotypes--particularly the view that blacks are less suited to logical thinking--he would have been permanently cast out of polite society. The fact that Reverend Wright expressed those views to the NAACP (and received, by all accounts, a positive response) merely indicates how far that once-venerable organization has fallen.

To the National Press Club, Wright reiterated his claim that AIDS was created by the United States government as a racist plot to kill blacks; he explained that Obama's "distancing" himself from Wright was only a political calculation "based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls"; and he also repeated his praise for Louis Farrakhan--the anti-Semitic, quasi-fascist, dictator-loving leader of the Nation of Islam--as "one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century." This part of his message was reinforced by the entourage he brought with him to the event. The Washington Post explains that the audience included Marion Barry--the crack-smoking former mayor of Washington, DC--Malik Zulu Shabazz of the New Black Panther Party, and Jamil Muhammad of the Nation of Islam. And adds: "a member of the head table, American Urban Radio's April Ryan, confirmed that Wright's security was provided by bodyguards from Farrakhan's Nation of Islam."

All of this is the polar opposite of the image Obama has projected to the world--except in one respect. Wright's main defense against criticism of his views was taken directly from Obama's March 18 speech on the subject of race in America. In this celebrated speech, Obama tried to make the Reverend Wright's views seem reasonable, to put him into an excusable "context"--and in doing so, he is the one who unleashed Wright.

At the National Press Club, Wright warned that criticism of him in the press "is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright; it is an attack on the black church." It might seem arrogant for Wright to assert that his own rantings are identical to the religious views of the black community as a whole--if Obama had not been the first one to make that comparison. The Reverend Wright, Obama said back in March, "contains within him the contradictions--the good and the bad--of the community that he has served diligently for so many years. I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community."

Wright's equation of himself with the "black church"--he goes on to explain that his own publicity-seeking "just might mean that the reality of the African-American church will no longer be invisible"--picks up on another theme straight out of Barack Obama's speech: excusing the reverend's wild exaggerations and emotionalist style as a widely accepted peculiarity of sermons in black churches. As Obama explained to us:

The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning.... But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.
Here we see Obama's purpose in equating Wright to the "black community" as a whole: to criticize Wright, therefore, is to criticize blacks as such. It is inherently racist. According to Obama, if you are shocked that Reverend Wright would call on God to damn America, this merely exposes your callous indifference to the views and experiences of blacks in America. It makes you an example of the persistence of segregation--and if you express your views, you are responsible for "widening" racial conflict in America.

In short, it was Obama who tried to neutralize criticism of Wright by appealing to white racial guilt. Shelby Steele has memorably described "white guilt" as the presumption that whites are guilty of racism until they can prove otherwise, which they do by subjecting themselves to "diversity training," by embracing "affirmative action" racial preferences--or by patiently taking abuse from the likes of Jeremiah Wright, in order to show how understanding they are of black grievances.

The purpose of Obama's famous speech on race was to make Wright seem reasonable, understandable, even mainstream. The Obama campaign's hope, no doubt, was that this would make the Wright story go away. But Wright interpreted it as an invitation. If he's so understandable and mainstream, why not go on a media tour to explain himself to the world? And why not use Obama's own arguments to justify himself and browbeat his critics?

All of this is why it is no use for Obama to backpedal from his association with Reverend Wright, or to denounce him now, six weeks too late. It was Obama who sought to provide the Reverend Wright with immunity from criticism--and he can't complain when the reverend tries to take full advantage of that immunity.

This is the final collapse of the noble promise of the Obama campaign. The man who had once put himself forward as the candidate who would transcend racial politics once and for all has ended up legitimizing a Christian equivalent of Louis Farrakhan--and injecting him into the American political debate.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rush Limbaugh put together a montage of commentators praising Obama's press conference. Most used the word "courageous."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is EXACTLY what they said about Obama in March when he said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"

I listened to a panel of 3 journalists & academics on NPR yesterday. All supported Obama, as did every caller put on the air.
Charlie Rose had a four person panel, all four gushing over Obama's brave and correct denouncing of Wright, and hoping this ends the controversy.

No mention anywhere (except right wing radio) of Obama's ludicrous claim yesterday to have just discovered Wright's true views.

Obama ignored Wright's crazy remarks about Aids, riding dirty, Goddamn America, etc. The tipping point came for Obama only when Wright went so far as to call Obama a phony politician.

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

Tyrone, what could a black person (pretend or real?) possibly have against Condoleeza Rice?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rush Limbaugh put together a montage of commentators praising Obama's press conference. Most used the word "courageous."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is EXACTLY what they said about Obama in March when he said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"

I listened to a panel of 3 journalists & academics on NPR yesterday. All supported Obama, as did every caller put on the air.
Charlie Rose had a four person panel, all four gushing over Obama's brave and correct denouncing of Wright, and hoping this ends the controversy.

No mention anywhere (except right wing radio) of Obama's ludicrous claim yesterday to have just discovered Wright's true views.

Obama ignored Wright's crazy remarks about Aids, riding dirty, Goddamn America, etc. The tipping point came for Obama only when Wright went so far as to call Obama a phony politician.

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

Tyrone, what could a black person (pretend or real?) possibly have against Condoleeza Rice?

OH, i don't know. How about ignoring Tenet and his warning of an imminent Al queda attack.

How about the fact she was an outspoken advocate of attacking Iraq and wrote and editorial stating that she knew they were lying.

How about the fact that she declined to testify before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the 9/11 Commission).

How about Rice rejecting, on grounds of executive privilege, a House subpoena regarding the prewar claim that Iraq sought yellowcake uranium from Niger.

How about ratcheting up the hype with, "The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

How about Rice characterizing August 6, 2001 President’s Daily Brief, “Bin Laden to Strike in US" historical information. Rice indicated “It was information based on old reporting.”

How about pushing for democratic elections for Palestine...which led to Hamas being elected. Which then led to her not dealing with Hamas.

Or the same in Lebanon with Hezbollah.

Yet, doesnt' hold Egypt or the Saudi's to the same standard. Did she question Mubarak on the jailing of Nour, ""didn't bring up difficult issues or ask to change anything."...said Mubarak.

How about that she spends too much time on television talking to a domestic audience and not enough in international negotiations.

How about the fact that certain world leaders don't respect her. Hard to believe kissinger woulda been snubbed like she was by Fouad Siniora, the Lebanese Prime Minister.

Or how about her refusal to talk with Syria.

[Kiwon]

Rush Limbaugh put together a montage of commentators praising Obama's press conference. Most used the word "courageous."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is EXACTLY what they said about Obama in March when he said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"

I listened to a panel of 3 journalists & academics on NPR yesterday. All supported Obama, as did every caller put on the air.
Charlie Rose had a four person panel, all four gushing over Obama's brave and correct denouncing of Wright, and hoping this ends the controversy.

No mention anywhere (except right wing radio) of Obama's ludicrous claim yesterday to have just discovered Wright's true views.

Obama ignored Wright's crazy remarks about Aids, riding dirty, Goddamn America, etc. The tipping point came for Obama only when Wright went so far as to call Obama a phony politician.

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

Tyrone, what could a black person (pretend or real?) possibly have against Condoleeza Rice?

OH, i don't know. How about ignoring Tenet and his warning of an imminent Al queda attack.

How about the fact she was an outspoken advocate of attacking Iraq and wrote and editorial stating that she knew they were lying.

How about the fact that she declined to testify before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the 9/11 Commission).

How about Rice rejecting, on grounds of executive privilege, a House subpoena regarding the prewar claim that Iraq sought yellowcake uranium from Niger.

How about ratcheting up the hype with, "The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

How about Rice characterizing August 6, 2001 President’s Daily Brief, “Bin Laden to Strike in US" historical information. Rice indicated “It was information based on old reporting.”

How about pushing for democratic elections for Palestine...which led to Hamas being elected. Which then led to her not dealing with Hamas.

Or the same in Lebanon with Hezbollah.

Yet, doesnt' hold Egypt or the Saudi's to the same standard. Did she question Mubarak on the jailing of Nour, ""didn't bring up difficult issues or ask to change anything."...said Mubarak.

How about that she spends too much time on television talking to a domestic audience and not enough in international negotiations.

How about the fact that certain world leaders don't respect her. Hard to believe kissinger woulda been snubbed like she was by Fouad Siniora, the Lebanese Prime Minister.

Or how about her refusal to talk with Syria.

Yeah, right. Like you care. The Great Humanitarian. :D

Aren't you busy (when you're not goofing off at work) fantasizing about "consoling" grieving, single moms?

Way back machine: One day after Heath Ledger's death, Mr. "We Are The World" said...


Tyrone is saddened. Left behind a child.

Tyrone also thinks Michelle Williams is cute and a fine actress. Tyrone may go a courtin'. Tyrone likes single mom's. They aren't so picky.

Just how do you focus that big brain of yours (trained in every form of software known to mankind putting poor hapless Partial to shame) on serious international events while trolling for vulnerable women?

Multitasking For Dummies?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rush Limbaugh put together a montage of commentators praising Obama's press conference. Most used the word "courageous."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is EXACTLY what they said about Obama in March when he said "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"

I listened to a panel of 3 journalists & academics on NPR yesterday. All supported Obama, as did every caller put on the air.
Charlie Rose had a four person panel, all four gushing over Obama's brave and correct denouncing of Wright, and hoping this ends the controversy.

No mention anywhere (except right wing radio) of Obama's ludicrous claim yesterday to have just discovered Wright's true views.

Obama ignored Wright's crazy remarks about Aids, riding dirty, Goddamn America, etc. The tipping point came for Obama only when Wright went so far as to call Obama a phony politician.

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

Tyrone, what could a black person (pretend or real?) possibly have against Condoleeza Rice?

OH, i don't know. How about ignoring Tenet and his warning of an imminent Al queda attack.

How about the fact she was an outspoken advocate of attacking Iraq and wrote and editorial stating that she knew they were lying.

How about the fact that she declined to testify before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (the 9/11 Commission).

How about Rice rejecting, on grounds of executive privilege, a House subpoena regarding the prewar claim that Iraq sought yellowcake uranium from Niger.

How about ratcheting up the hype with, "The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

How about Rice characterizing August 6, 2001 President’s Daily Brief, “Bin Laden to Strike in US" historical information. Rice indicated “It was information based on old reporting.”

How about pushing for democratic elections for Palestine...which led to Hamas being elected. Which then led to her not dealing with Hamas.

Or the same in Lebanon with Hezbollah.

Yet, doesnt' hold Egypt or the Saudi's to the same standard. Did she question Mubarak on the jailing of Nour, ""didn't bring up difficult issues or ask to change anything."...said Mubarak.

How about that she spends too much time on television talking to a domestic audience and not enough in international negotiations.

How about the fact that certain world leaders don't respect her. Hard to believe kissinger woulda been snubbed like she was by Fouad Siniora, the Lebanese Prime Minister.

Or how about her refusal to talk with Syria.

Yeah, right. Like you care. The Great Humanitarian. :D

Aren't you busy (when you're not goofing off at work) fantasizing about "consoling" grieving, single moms?

Way back machine: One day after Heath Ledger's death, Mr. "We Are The World" said...


Tyrone is saddened. Left behind a child.

Tyrone also thinks Michelle Williams is cute and a fine actress. Tyrone may go a courtin'. Tyrone likes single mom's. They aren't so picky.

Just how do you focus that big brain of yours (trained in every form of software known to mankind putting poor hapless Partial to shame) on serious international events while trolling for vulnerable women?

Multitasking For Dummies?

What does being a humanitarian have to do with not finding Rice perfect?

Tyrone finds your obsession with him quite flattering. Perhaps you would like Tyrone to send you his schedule so you can be more on top of what i'm doing.

Tyrone also finds that you have a very poor sense of humor. Tyrone also notes that you are kinda dumb, as Michelle Williams was a single mom long before Mr. Ledger passed on.

Tyrone has never claimed to be trained in every piece of software, and Partial and tyrone HAVE never had one discussion on software. I guess for you all things puter related are the same.

Game, Set, Match.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama is a fraud.WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

I think we need to team-up. An unbeatable ticket, like Kennedy & Johnson. With my boyish good looks & charisma, and your pull with the, well, classically-minded crowd, we'll rule the forum.

[texaspackerbacker]

Obama is a fraud.WTG, Harlan. I couldn't have said it better.

I think we need to team-up. An unbeatable ticket, like Kennedy & Johnson. With my boyish good looks & charisma, and your pull with the, well, classically-minded crowd, we'll rule the forum.

All that from one little WTG!

I don't think I could take you along as my veep (that is the arrangement you had in mind, isn't it?). It ain't healthy to have somebody who disagrees with you probably 80% of the time a heartbeat away from taking over for me--my heartbeat.

Let me see, do I want to get into an extended discussion over Condoleeza with Tyrone or not? Nah. I'll just say with regard to the post above, it's refreshing to find somebody who blames somebody other than Bush for all the liberal-perceived problems of the world.

I think the buck never stopped with Condi before (oh, the racist possibilities there).

[Harlan Huckleby]

Mrs Clinton came off great in her meet & greet with Bill O'Reilly, online reaction is glowing, should give her a bump.

Polls in Indiana show her comfortably ahead in 5-10% range. (She was behind by that margin two weeks ago.)

And most bizarre is that one poll had her leading in North Carolina by 2%! She had been back more than 15% there. The Dem voters being polled in N.C. are about 40% African American. If Clinton really did pull ahead (which is highly unlikely), it would mean Obama's support among whites has collapsed. I'm not holding my breath, but Clinton will be on way to the nomination if she beat Obama in both IN & NC.

The forum needs a shit-eating grin emoticon.

[The Leaper]

Obama is a cynical, poll-driven politician just like the rest. What galls me is the claim by his followers to the new way. Obama is a fraud.

He's not even a poll-driven politician. That is what is killing Washington. If the politicians actually listened to the polls of their constitutents, they might vote for what their people actually want.

The problem is that most of our politicians simply follow a far left or far right agenda driven by the nutso political interests on both extremes. That is precisely where Obama falls. He's not some new fresh breath of air. He's a far left elitist who will ignore the will of the American people just as much as Bush does...it would just be in different areas of policy.

[The Leaper]

I'm not holding my breath, but Clinton will be on way to the nomination if she beat Obama in both IN & NC.

I can't see any way that she wins the nomination, but winning NC might be her best shot. It certainly would make the "let's get this over by June" argument from Dean look pretty shaky, and would almost guarantee a shakedown at the convention.

The Dems can't afford to alienate blacks, the educated elite, or the new voters Obama has brought in the Dem party by picking Hillary with fewer delegates. The way Congressional districts have been redrawn, the Dems stand to take huge losses in Congress if they go with Hillary over Barack right now. They may win the White House, but they probably lose control of Congress if the blacks and leftist elites don't turn out in large numbers. Moderates hate Congress as much as they hate Bush, and many of the Dems gains there will probably get eliminated.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Dems can't afford to alienate blacks, the educated elite, or the new voters Obama has brought in the Dem party by picking Hillary with fewer delegates.

This is a good take on what would happen if Clinton got nomination:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/04/30/how-obama-could-lose.aspx

I agree with this article that African Americans will be OK with Clinton. The main revolt will come from DailyKos, young people.

But you know what, an awful lot of older Democrats are not going to vote for Obama. Neither candidate is going to capture the whole pie.

I think OBama & Clinton would have benefited from agreeing to a joint ticket. No interest from Obama camp.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That is what is killing Washington. If the politicians actually listened to the polls of their constitutents, they might vote for what their people actually want.

The problem is that most of our politicians simply follow a far left or far right agenda driven by the nutso political interests on both extremes .

I think you are completely wrong. IF there is a problem with "extremism", its that redistricting has made most of the congressional districts safe, which pushes representatives away from the middle. But still, they are representing the views of their constituents.

Maybe you can give an example of extremist actions. I see none.

[The Leaper]

Maybe you can give an example of extremist actions. I see none.

It is more about extremist "inaction".

Like the amount of steel we buy from China...which is subpar and puts all of us at risk and our own citizens out of a job. Or the entire lack of action on immigration and border security. What about the impending Social Security disaster?

There are dozens of issues that real Americans care about...but that Washington simply refuses to actually address outside of holding "hearings" that are nothing but window dressing.

The extreme groups have worked hard to get their agendas in place already...and now seek to simply turn Washington into a "do nothing" establishment. Corporations and special interests now run this country, because we've allowed their $$$$ to run Washington.

[The Leaper]

I agree with this article that African Americans will be OK with Clinton.

Sure, they'll be OK.

However, they won't turn out in droves to vote like they would if Obama was running. That means far fewer votes across the board for the Dems.

[Freak Out]

McClatchy Washington Bureau
Posted on Thu, May. 01, 2008

Blacks won't vote in November if Obama's denied nomination

David Lightman and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: May 01, 2008 03:03:14 PM

INDIANAPOLIS — Many black voters are making it very clear: They're concerned that Barack Obama is going to be denied the Democratic presidential nomination that they see as rightfully his, and if that happens, a lot of them may stay home in November.

"It would hurt me not to vote," said Charles Clark, an Indianapolis retiree. He's thinking about leaving the presidential box on his ballot blank this fall if Hillary Clinton is the Democrats' nominee.

"There was a heck of a push made so blacks could vote. I know that," he said. "But it would also be very unfair if they pushed Barack Obama to the side."

Michelle Moore, an Indianapolis housewife, is less gentle: "Hillary Clinton would not even still be in the race if Obama was a white man," she said.

Her tough tone was common this week in this city's black community. Why, people asked, is the Illinois senator's relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright being judged so harshly? Why won't Democratic Party officials acknowledge that Obama's in the lead and unite around him?

African-Americans have been the Democratic Party's most reliable bloc, giving about 90 percent of their votes to former Vice President Al Gore and Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., in the last two presidential elections.

In a close election this year, an African-American exodus from the voting booth could be costly to Democrats, particularly in the South, where blacks are a large proportion of the electorate.

If Obama isn't the nominee, "there would be a significant number of African-Americans who would stay home. They're not voting for (presumptive Republican nominee) John McCain," predicted David Bositis, a senior analyst at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, which researches black voting trends.

Todd Shaw, a University of South Carolina political science professor, agreed, citing a groundswell of African-American disenchantment with both Bill and Hillary Clinton. They're particularly annoyed by Bill Clinton's performance during the South Carolina primary and by Clinton supporter James Carville's description of New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a Latino, as "Judas" for endorsing Obama over Hillary Clinton.

"The comment plays very badly with African-Americans and Latinos," Shaw said. "They remind them of 'Look what we've done for you; you should stay in line.' That doesn't sit well with voters of color. They view it as Northern machine politics or Old South boss politics."

Hunter Bacot, an associate professor of political science at Elon University in North Carolina, saw another piece of political history haunting black Obama backers.

"There's a sentiment among blacks that they've been taken for granted by the Democratic Party," Bacot said. "If Obama loses, it's as though their candidate's victory was overturned."

Democratic National Committee officials acknowledge that there could be some falloff of African-American voters if Obama isn't the nominee. Still, Karen Finney, a DNC spokeswoman, said the party expects African-Americans — frustrated by the war in Iraq, the sagging economy and high gasoline prices — to go to the polls in their usual numbers when they compare whomever the Democratic nominee is with McCain.

"We are aware that this has been an intense race, that there have been some tough feelings, and there are concerns," she said. However, how those feelings are soothed and concerns resolved will depend largely on how Clinton and Obama personally handle victory and defeat.

Several African-Americans in Indiana, which holds a crucial Democratic primary on Tuesday, said they could be seeing yet another effort by the white establishment to crush any African-American who's earned a powerful position.

"Here we go again," said Eddie Pryor, an Indianapolis retiree.

"It's like there's a ceiling for us," added Bangen Finley, an Indianapolis machinist.

Feelings are similar elsewhere. Former Rep. Floyd Flake, D-N.Y., an African Methodist Episcopal church pastor and president of a private black college in Ohio, said he constantly hears the angst of African-American and young voters about Obama's fortunes.

"If he doesn't get it, there will be a response," Flake said. "The young people will not be showing up to vote for Hillary Clinton if she gets it. I think given the turnout coming from young people and African-Americans (for Obama), I don't think they will go to the polls if she is the candidate."

But Jerry Mondesire, the president of the Philadelphia chapter of the NAACP and publisher of The Philadelphia Sunday Sun, an African-American weekly newspaper, said it's foolish for any Democrat to refuse to vote if his or her candidate isn't the nominee.

"It's a stupid way for Obama supporters to think and a stupid way for Hillary Clinton supporters to think," said Mondesire, a pledged Clinton delegate. "It's a selfish and destructive way to think. I can't think of what the Supreme Court would look like if McCain were elected. Roe v. Wade could be diminished, and Brown v. Board of Education could be impacted."

Some African-American voters in Indiana acknowledge that they might come around even if Clinton wins.

"I am offended by Hillary Clinton. What's going on now is unwarranted," said Shirley Graham, an Indianapolis auto company worker. But she will vote Democratic in the fall. "I am a Christian. I can't allow myself to have lingering bitterness," she said.

Others are undecided.

"They're criticizing Obama in ways that are not really relevant," said Bill Davis, a Carmel electrical engineer. "I will make a determination about voting in November at that time."

Michelle Moore, however, has made up her mind: Clinton is out.

"Senator Obama is just not being treated fairly," she insisted. "You would think everything that Reverend Wright says is coming right from Obama's mouth."

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nobody can say with any confidence what black people, or working class whites, or college students, or women will do after a whole general election campaign. The one thing that seems certain is that the issue cuts both ways.

A recent poll suggests Clinton voters are more likely to reject Obama than vice versa.

If the priority is to keep the Democratic Party together, the answer is to agree to a joint ticket. No go, says Nancy Pelosi and other Obama supporters. OK, well, don't complain about the heat in the kitchen then. And stop the talk of looking out for the party's best interests.

Poll: Obama-Clinton Divide
By Dalia Sussman
April 30, 2008, 3:17 pm

As the Democratic nominating contest rages on, most of Barack Obama’s supporters say they would be satisfied if Hillary Clinton wins the party’s nomination for president. But that positive sentiment is not entirely reciprocated among Hillary Clinton’s supporters, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
More than six in 10 Democratic primary voters who support Mr. Obama in the poll say they would be satisfied if Mrs. Clinton wins the nomination. But among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters, just 49 percent say they would feel satisfied if Mr. Obama wins, while 50 percent would be dissatisfied. Nearly a quarter say they would be very dissatisfied.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/poll-obama-clinton-divide/

[RashanGary]

This reaks of a staged event. Obama knows he has to get away from Wright, but doesn't want to look like a traitor to the black people while doing it. What's the solution? Have Rev Wright go crazy-stupid so Obama has an excuse to disown him and everything looks cool to his black following.


You know how these things are done, a conversation among the Obama elite leads from one thing to another. Someone brings up how damaging wright is, someone says how damaging it would be to disown him. Then someone says "if only he'd say something really stupid now so we can move on from this guy" and then everyones eyes light up. Someone who's close to wright accross the room winks at whoevers in charge and the plan is in place. Obama didn't create it, it just sort of happened. No real way to trace it, it was never specifically planned out. It just sort of conveniently happend and now Obama gets the crazy black monkey off his back.

Who cares who wins these things. Everythign is corrupt. Everyone is motivated by money and power and money/power rarely have the will of the people anywhere near the top of the priority list.

[hoosier]

Nobody can say with any confidence what black people, or working class whites, or college students, or women will do after a whole general election campaign. The one thing that seems certain is that the issue cuts both ways.

Poll: Obama-Clinton Divide
By Dalia Sussman
April 30, 2008, 3:17 pm

As the Democratic nominating contest rages on, most of Barack Obama’s supporters say they would be satisfied if Hillary Clinton wins the party’s nomination for president. But that positive sentiment is not entirely reciprocated among Hillary Clinton’s supporters, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
More than six in 10 Democratic primary voters who support Mr. Obama in the poll say they would be satisfied if Mrs. Clinton wins the nomination. But among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters, just 49 percent say they would feel satisfied if Mr. Obama wins, while 50 percent would be dissatisfied. Nearly a quarter say they would be very dissatisfied.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/poll-obama-clinton-divide/

Further evidence that the Clintonian wing of the Democratic Party is really just a reincarnation of the old Boll Weevil Democrats, who couldn't bring themselves to vote Republican because it was a Republican President who freed the slaves. :wink:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Nobody can say with any confidence what black people, or working class whites, or college students, or women will do after a whole general election campaign. The one thing that seems certain is that the issue cuts both ways.

Poll: Obama-Clinton Divide
By Dalia Sussman
April 30, 2008, 3:17 pm

As the Democratic nominating contest rages on, most of Barack Obama’s supporters say they would be satisfied if Hillary Clinton wins the party’s nomination for president. But that positive sentiment is not entirely reciprocated among Hillary Clinton’s supporters, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
More than six in 10 Democratic primary voters who support Mr. Obama in the poll say they would be satisfied if Mrs. Clinton wins the nomination. But among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters, just 49 percent say they would feel satisfied if Mr. Obama wins, while 50 percent would be dissatisfied. Nearly a quarter say they would be very dissatisfied.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/poll-obama-clinton-divide/

Further evidence that the Clintonian wing of the Democratic Party is really just a reincarnation of the old Boll Weevil Democrats, who couldn't bring themselves to vote Republican because it was a Republican President who freed the slaves. :wink:

Boll Weevil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uivguXs6wY

[Harlan Huckleby]

Further evidence that the Clintonian wing of the Democratic Party is really just a reincarnation of the old Boll Weevil Democrats, who couldn't bring themselves to vote Republican because it was a Republican President who freed the slaves. :wink:

I think there is some truth to this. Except the animosity didn't start out at such a high level, it grew as the campaign went along, which suggests race is not a core issue.

I think there are more people opposed to a female candidate than a black candidate. Maybe not in concept, but the reality of a woman out there in the rough-and-tumble rubs people the wrong way.

And Obama isn't black. He's half white. A dark-skinned African American, a guy who looks like Alan Keyes, would not be so acceptable.

[Joemailman]

Nobody can say with any confidence what black people, or working class whites, or college students, or women will do after a whole general election campaign. The one thing that seems certain is that the issue cuts both ways.

A recent poll suggests Clinton voters are more likely to reject Obama than vice versa.

If the priority is to keep the Democratic Party together, the answer is to agree to a joint ticket. No go, says Nancy Pelosi and other Obama supporters. OK, well, don't complain about the heat in the kitchen then. And stop the talk of looking out for the party's best interests.

Poll: Obama-Clinton Divide
By Dalia Sussman
April 30, 2008, 3:17 pm

As the Democratic nominating contest rages on, most of Barack Obama’s supporters say they would be satisfied if Hillary Clinton wins the party’s nomination for president. But that positive sentiment is not entirely reciprocated among Hillary Clinton’s supporters, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
More than six in 10 Democratic primary voters who support Mr. Obama in the poll say they would be satisfied if Mrs. Clinton wins the nomination. But among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters, just 49 percent say they would feel satisfied if Mr. Obama wins, while 50 percent would be dissatisfied. Nearly a quarter say they would be very dissatisfied.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/poll-obama-clinton-divide/

Do you really think that Nancy Pelosi will have much to say about who Obama would pick as his running mate? I don't. The real question is whether Obama could pick a running mate who has suggested that the Republican nominee is in some ways more qualified to be President than he is. Right now I'm thinking he might pick Ed Rendell, who could bring in all those disenchanted Clinton supporters while at the same time probably delivering Pennsylvania. If Hillary gets the nomination, I think it's probably a no-brainer that she offers the VP job to Obama. Whether he would accept it is another matter.

[texaspackerbacker]

As a conservative Republican, I'm STILL trying to decide which of the Dems will be easier to beat. One thing sure, each day that goes by, they BOTH become easier to beat--hence, America's chance of coming out of this election without serious damage is getting stronger every day.

I'm beginning to think Obama may actually be the more beatable of the two because Hillary has more support in the states the Dems have a strong chance to win. Obama, on the other hand, is strong in a lot of southern and western states that the Dems will lose regardless.

However, if Hillary gets the nomination, a huge number of black and young white Obama supporters are going to see the nomination as stolen from Obama, and are going to stay home and not vote. That would be wonderful from a Republican and American standpoint, because it would strengthen our chances of wresting Congress from the clutches of the evil Dems.

All that says WIN/WIN situation for the Republicans, and hence, for America.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

However, if Hillary gets the nomination, a huge number of black and young white Obama supporters are going to see the nomination as stolen from Obama, and are going to stay home and not vote. That would be wonderful from a Republican and American standpoint
All that says WIN/WIN situation for the Republicans, and hence, for America.

Yep, it is always in America's best interest to have voter's stay home. :roll:

[hoosier]

However, if Hillary gets the nomination, a huge number of black and young white Obama supporters are going to see the nomination as stolen from Obama, and are going to stay home and not vote. That would be wonderful from a Republican and American standpoint
All that says WIN/WIN situation for the Republicans, and hence, for America.

Yep, it is always in America's best interest to have voter's stay home. :roll:

Leave it to Tex to sum up in one sentence Karl Rove's entire political strategy. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

Damn straight it is good for America to have people who have pitifully succumbed to the anti-American con job of the Amerircan leftist politicians and media types NOT vote.

Hillary OR Obama win, and America loses. The Dems lose, especially if they lose control of Congress too, and America wins.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do you really think that Nancy Pelosi will have much to say about who Obama would pick as his running mate? I don't.

Of course not. But if the Obama supporters had responded favorably to the idea, that would have been a basis of reconciliation, plus would have put some pressure on Obama to give serious consideration. Pelosi made a declaration of war.

Most of this is symbolic. It is the gesture more than anything.


If Hillary gets the nomination, I think it's probably a no-brainer that she offers the VP job to Obama. Whether he would accept it is another matter.

I'm increasingly hearing that Clinton supporters don't want Obama on the ticket. Both of candidates are acruing such negatives.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The 'Race' Speech Revisited
By Charles Krauthammer

"I can no more disown him [Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown my white grandmother."

-- Barack Obama, Philadelphia, March 18

Guess it's time to disown Granny, if Obama's famous Philadelphia "race" speech is to be believed. Of course, the speech was not just believed. It was hailed, celebrated, canonized as the greatest pronouncement on race in America since Lincoln at Cooper Union. A New York Times columnist said it "should be required reading in classrooms across the country." College seniors and first-graders, suggested the excitable Chris Matthews.

Apparently there's been a curriculum change. On Tuesday, the good senator begged to extend and revise his previous remarks on race. Moral equivalence between Grandma and Wright is now, as the Nixon administration used to say, inoperative. Poor Geraldine Ferraro, thrice lashed by Obama in Philadelphia as the white equivalent of Wright's raving racism, is off the hook.

These equivalences having been revealed as the cheap rhetorical tricks they always were, Obama has now decided that the man he simply could not banish because he had become part of Obama himself is, mirabile dictu, surgically excised.

At a news conference in North Carolina, Obama explained why he finally decided to do the deed. Apparently, Wright's latest comments -- Obama cited three in particular -- were so shockingly "divisive and destructive" that he had to renounce the man, not just the words.

What were Obama's three citations? Wright's claim that AIDS was invented by the U.S. government to commit genocide. His praise of Louis Farrakhan as a great man. And his blaming Sept. 11 on American "terrorism."

But these comments are not new. These were precisely the outrages that prompted the initial furor when the Wright tapes emerged seven weeks ago. Obama decided to cut off Wright not because Wright's words or character or views had suddenly changed. The only thing that changed was the venue in which Wright chose to display them -- live on national TV at the National Press Club. That unfortunate choice destroyed Obama's Philadelphia pretense that this "endless loop" of sermon excerpts being shown on "television sets and YouTube" had been taken out of context.

Obama's Philadelphia oration was an exercise in contextualization. In one particularly egregious play on white guilt, Obama had the audacity to suggest that whites should be ashamed that they were ever surprised by Wright's remarks: "The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour of American life occurs on Sunday morning."

That was then. On Tuesday, Obama declared that he himself was surprised at Wright's outrages. But hadn't Obama told us that surprise about Wright is a result of white ignorance of black churches brought on by America's history of segregated services? How then to explain Obama's own presumed ignorance? Surely he too was not sitting in those segregated white churches on those fateful Sundays when he conveniently missed all of Wright's racist rants.

Obama's turning surprise about Wright into something to be counted against whites-- one of the more clever devices in that shameful, brilliantly executed, 5,000-word intellectual fraud in Philadelphia -- now stands discredited by Obama's own admission of surprise. But Obama's liberal acolytes are not daunted. They were taken in by the first great statement on race: the Annunciation, the Chosen One comes to heal us in Philly. They now are taken in by the second: the Renunciation.

Obama's newest attempt to save himself after Wright's latest poisonous performance is now declared the new final word on the subject. Therefore, any future ads linking Obama and Wright are preemptively declared out of bounds, illegitimate, indeed "race-baiting" (a New York Times editorial, April 30).

On what grounds? This 20-year association with Wright calls into question everything about Obama: his truthfulness in his serially adjusted stories of what he knew and when he knew it; his judgment in choosing as his mentor, pastor and great friend a man he just now realizes is a purveyor of racial hatred; and the central premise of his campaign, that he is the bringer of a "new politics," rising above the old Washington ways of expediency. It's hard to think of an act more blatantly expedient than renouncing Wright when his show, once done from the press club instead of the pulpit, could no longer be "contextualized" as something whites could not understand and only Obama could explain in all its complexity.

Turns out the Wright show was not that complex after all. Everyone understands it now. Even Obama.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There's a petition drive in the African American community (400K signatures so far) demanding that the SuperDelegates ratify the Pledge Delegates. A vote for Clinton is a vote for racism.

http://www.colorofchange.org/dems/index.html

Leaders of the Democratic Party are playing a dangerous game -- risking the credibility of the party to hand Hillary Clinton the nomination against the will of voters. Heading down this path means disenfranchising millions of voters and legitimizing a campaign strategy that has displayed a clear pattern of race baiting and divisive politics.
Join us in demanding that Democratic Party leadership and superdelegates uphold the integrity of the party and listen to the voice of voters.

[texaspackerbacker]

If your line, "a vote for Hillary is a vote for racism" is meant to paraphrase the petition, I think you have it wrong.

Just reading the words of the petition, I don't see how anybody could disagree with what they are saying. For the super delegates to go over the heads of the voters would certainly be allowable by Democrat Party rules. However, it may not be wise, as those "disenfranchised" Obama voters really would legitimately feel wronged to the extent that they probably would sit out and not vote.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They say a vote for Clinton legitimizes race baiting. Never mind that the Obama camp has constantly played the race card.

Threatening Superdelegates makes the whole process illegitimate. And of course this petition group is just following the example set by politiicans favoring Obama.

The SuperDelegates were created to be independent. There is no purpose for them if they have to follow the Pledge Delegates.

the argument against having SuperDelegates is legitimate. But they have SuperDelegates, those are the rules. Lots of things about the process are undemocratic. Not having FL or MI vote is ridiculous, and Obama blocked revotes. Caucuses are very undemocratic.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree with you completely about the racism displayed by the Obamanation.

However, the fine line I was pointing out was simply that their petition wasn't talking about regular people voting for Hillary and that being racist. It was referring to super delegates overturning a seemingly sure Obama win.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'd like to see these reforms:

1) get rid of SuperDelegates
2) no caucuses, just votes
3) winner take all primaries
4) black candidates run seperately in a process that makes them eligible for the Vice Presidency.

[hoosier]

I'd like to see these reforms:

1) get rid of SuperDelegates
2) no caucuses, just votes
3) winner take all primaries
4) black candidates run seperately in a process that makes them eligible for the Vice Presidency.

Could you elaborate a little on number 4?

[Harlan Huckleby]

it's a :lol: I'm pretending to be mad in a Geraldine Ferraro way that a black man has gotten too uppity. (actually, I don't think Ferraro was denigrating Obama as an affirmative action special, as some allege; I think she was making the obvious point that being black is a net plus in Obama's narrative, at least in the Dem Primaries.)

it does seem like both parties are happy to have a woman or minority in the VP chair. You get the good vibe without the backlash.

[Joemailman]

I think Hillary should drop out if she doesn't win the Guam caucuses today.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bob Hebert checks in today with a column decrying the media focus on the trivial matter of Reverand Wright. "Lets focus on the important issues."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/opinion/03herbert.html

Three weeks ago he wrote an entire column analysing Clinton's "as far as I know" remark. He called it the dirtiest moment of the campaign.

I'm not sure whether Hebert is a dishonest propogandist, or he's suffering from temporary insanity. Obamamania is not a character fault, its a disease.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Hillary should drop out if she doesn't win the Guam caucuses today.

If Hillary doesn't get the nomination I'm going to riot in Denver.

[Joemailman]

I don't think a woman should be allowed to be President. Do we really want some raving psycho hosebeast going through PMS with her finger on the nuclear button?

[MJZiggy]

I think Hillary's a little old for PMS, no?

[Joemailman]

I didn't say Hillary. I was thinking more broadly in scope.

[MJZiggy]

What if she were a MYLF?

[GrnBay007]

I don't think a woman should be allowed to be President. Do we really want some raving psycho hosebeast going through PMS with her finger on the nuclear button?

Like men don't have the male version? :roll:

Men with the common cold: "oh my gosh, my throat is sore, I can't breath, I'm all stuffed up, my chest hurts, my body hurts, I can't get out of bed!!!!! Make me some chicken noodle soup (and serve it), go buy me some meds....help!!!!

Women with the common cold: get up, go to work for 8+ hrs, pick up kids from school, make dinner, take kids to sporting events, come home and do laundry and get to bed at 11. ....on to the next day...who has time for a cold?

...and you wonder about PMS?

:P

[Kiwon]

I don't think a woman should be allowed to be President. Do we really want some raving psycho hosebeast going through PMS with her finger on the nuclear button?

Like men don't have the male version? :roll:

Men with the common cold: "oh my gosh, my throat is sore, I can't breath, I'm all stuffed up, my chest hurts, my body hurts, I can't get out of bed!!!!! Make me some chicken noodle soup (and serve it), go buy me some meds....help!!!!

Women with the common cold: get up, go to work for 8+ hrs, pick up kids from school, make dinner, take kids to sporting events, come home and do laundry and get to bed at 11. ....on to the next day...who has time for a cold?

...and you wonder about PMS?

:P

007, when does the Lady Prez push the button....before picking up the kids or after doing the laundry? :D

[hoosier]

it's a :lol: I'm pretending to be mad in a Geraldine Ferraro way that a black man has gotten too uppity. (actually, I don't think Ferraro was denigrating Obama as an affirmative action special, as some allege; I think she was making the obvious point that being black is a net plus in Obama's narrative, at least in the Dem Primaries.)

it does seem like both parties are happy to have a woman or minority in the VP chair. You get the good vibe without the backlash.

Your first three points seemed completely serious, so you definitely FORGOT to include the requisite irony emoticon. :lol: I read Ferraro's comments as denigrating Obamamania--maybe not as an affirmative action special, if that means that Obama's blackness is all he has going for him, but definitely in a resentful kind of way. It's the old It's not ok to be racist but it is ok to be sexist spiel. She's certainly right, at least on that point, but that doesn't change the fact that her comment is pure resentment and therefore ultimately self-destructive.

[GrnBay007]

007, when does the Lady Prez push the button....before picking up the kids or after doing the laundry? :D

Anytime. She would carry a remote with her and multitask! :D

[texaspackerbacker]

Harlan, refresh my memory. Are you on record as being a McCain supporter regardless? Or have you said you will support McCain if Obama gets the nomination? Or will you switch over to Obama if he wins over Hillary?

I suspect it is the second of the three choices--which would make you a pretty rare exception among Hillary-backers--most of whom will probably join the abomination which is Obamanation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I will find it very difficult to vote for Obama.

I would describe my state of mind now is that of a raving lunatic, I truly can't think straight. I've been driven mad by the slanted press coverage and uncritical promotion of Barack. And I find his movement deeply offensive.

I expect I will vote for McCain because I respect him. But this is the wrong time for me to be making decisions or operating machinery, I might feel differently in the fall.

[MJZiggy]

Wisconsin's already had their primary, HH. You've done all you can do. Perhaps you should stop reading the press until they manage to choose a candidate and then figure it all out.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the voices have been telling me to prove my love for Hillary. I think there is one more very important mission for me.

[texaspackerbacker]

The only female in the race, that Hillary had expressed support for, lost badly and had to be put down right after, and the big brown male won. Sure, it's only the Kentucky Derby, Harlan, but it's got to be kind of a bad omen for your side.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ya, I'm pulling for that feisty filly. Hadn't heard about the female horse, though, thanks for update. I wonder if they'll put Hillary down if she loses IN & NC.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've since heard that Obama came out in favor of Big Brown too--another nail in Hillary's coffin.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do put her down if she loses those two primaries. She has roared into the lead in Indiana, though, and gotten much closer in North Carolina. I heard her make a speech today that even sounded kinda good to me. And I especially like her line about "obliterating Iran". :D