Thompson drafts football players

[dissident94]

The thing I like about his drafts is he looks at the player rather than times. Like Jordy Nelson. He makes plays like Jennings. HE may not run the best times but in pads he and on the field he is better than most.
Guys like Vernon Davis who are physical freaks do not always win games. Guys like Jennings do.

[Tarlam!]

Interesting post. I agree with it, to a point.

TT is good at scouting or briefing his scouts. Whatever.

We went 13-3 last year. A lot of luck was there ro help us do that. That first game against Philly, anyone remember?? But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB.

If we win 11 this year, I would say TT rebuilt this team. That's just my opinion.

[packinpatland]

"But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB. "


Yup, he lost that game single-handedly all by himself.......please.
:roll:

[Packnut]

Interesting post. I agree with it, to a point.

TT is good at scouting or briefing his scouts. Whatever.

We went 13-3 last year. A lot of luck was there ro help us do that. That first game against Philly, anyone remember?? But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB.

If we win 11 this year, I would say TT rebuilt this team. That's just my opinion.


"A very cold tired HOF QB".


I guess I saw a little bit more than that.

I saw an in-experienced HC get totally out-coached and out schemed all game long.

I saw our defensive coordinator either un-willing or un-able to adjust to things a freakin blind man could have seen.

I saw the interior of our O-line open ZERO holes for the run game.

[Tarlam!]

"But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB. "


Yup, he lost that game single-handedly all by himself.......please.
:roll:

Tell ya what, PIP, it was way past midnight here where I was watching it. But the HOFer couldn't get a first down all night. He didn't look like the week before. He looked pretty cold and tired.

Now, I am prepared to admit I am wrong, since I was cold and tired that night.

But if ever we needed a HOF performance from him, it was that night. He didn't produce one, IIRC.

[Tarlam!]

I guess I saw a little bit more than that.

I saw an in-experienced HC get totally out-coached and out schemed all game long.

I saw our defensive coordinator either un-willing or un-able to adjust to things a freakin blind man could have seen.

I saw the interior of our O-line open ZERO holes for the run game.

All valid observations. As to the HC being outcoached, well, his "cold and tired" QB had every right to change plays at the line. But he didn't. The week before, he seemed to, at least.

All I'm saying is the BF we saw against the Seahawks didn't turn up against the Giants.

[cheesner]

"But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB. "


Yup, he lost that game single-handedly all by himself.......please.
:roll:

Tell ya what, PIP, it was way past midnight here where I was watching it. But the HOFer couldn't get a first down all night. He didn't look like the week before. He looked pretty cold and tired.

Now, I am prepared to admit I am wrong, since I was cold and tired that night.

But if ever we needed a HOF performance from him, it was that night. He didn't produce one, IIRC.
Favre did not loose the game all by himself, but he sure didn't do much to help win. When I saw Brett standing there pre-game looking like he did not want to be there, I thought right then, 'Brett is going to play bad and we are going to lose'. Prior to that scene, I was sure the Packers were going to win.

More than ever, the Packers needed an emotional leader to inspire the troops and frankly, Brett didn't have it in him.

Sorry. But that is how I saw it. I am a huge Favre fan, have an autographed football, jersey, my 5 YO has a jersey, but that is the way it is. Or that is the way it was, at least on that day.

[Scott Campbell]

Interesting post. I agree with it, to a point.

TT is good at scouting or briefing his scouts. Whatever.

We went 13-3 last year. A lot of luck was there ro help us do that. That first game against Philly, anyone remember?? But I saw that same team lose in January with a very cold, tired HOF QB.

If we win 11 this year, I would say TT rebuilt this team. That's just my opinion.


"A very cold tired HOF QB".


I guess I saw a little bit more than that.

I saw an in-experienced HC get totally out-coached and out schemed all game long.

I saw our defensive coordinator either un-willing or un-able to adjust to things a freakin blind man could have seen.

I saw the interior of our O-line open ZERO holes for the run game.



I'm with Tarlam. I saw Brett get badly outplayed by Eli.

[Scott Campbell]

I also saw the Giants D-Line do the same thing to us that they did to John Gruden's team, Jerry Jone's team and Bill Billechek's team.

Those well respected coaches suffered the same fate McCarthy did. We weren't any more out schemed than those elite teams were.

[The Leaper]

I'm with Tarlam. I saw Brett get badly outplayed by Eli.

I disagree...at least in terms of "badly outplayed". Eli didn't play that great of a game. He was solid, but he really didn't make many plays himself to win the game. If our defense had made ANY adjustments, we could've made life tougher on him.

Favre tossed a ball right to Martin that he dropped...which potentially could have been a real game changer. Favre made the single best play of the game on a great pass to Driver in difficult passing conditions.

Favre made one horrible toss in OT, and it wound up costing the team dearly. However, I don't think that means he was badly outplayed by Eli. If Eli hadn't had a running game to support him and was forced to carry the load on his own, he would've lost the game as well.

Now, in terms of Favre not having his "A" game...there's no doubt about that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm with Tarlam. I saw Brett get badly outplayed by Eli.

I disagree...at least in terms of "badly outplayed". Eli didn't play that great of a game. He was solid, but he really didn't make many plays himself to win the game.

Favre tossed a ball right to Martin that he dropped...which potentially could have been a real game changer. Favre made the single best play of the game on a great pass to Driver in difficult passing conditions.

Favre made one horrible toss in OT, and it wound up costing the team dearly. However, I don't think that means he was badly outplayed by Eli. If Eli hadn't had a running game to support him and was forced to carry the load on his own, he would've lost the game as well.

Now, in terms of Favre not having his "A" game...there's no doubt about that.

I hear ya, but it's just woulda, coulda, shoulda. Eli did throw one ball that should have been intercepted, and he threw another ball that was intercepted but was called back on a penalty. Brett threw his first interception when Koren Robinson waved his arms frantically like he was wide open when he wasn't. For a better part of the game, Brett played as well or better than Eli. However, Eli made the plays down the stretch when he had to. Brett didn't. Favre looked and played like he was cold. Eli didn't.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm with Tarlam. I saw Brett get badly outplayed by Eli.

I disagree...at least in terms of "badly outplayed". Eli didn't play that great of a game. He was solid, but he really didn't make many plays himself to win the game.

Favre tossed a ball right to Martin that he dropped...which potentially could have been a real game changer. Favre made the single best play of the game on a great pass to Driver in difficult passing conditions.

Favre made one horrible toss in OT, and it wound up costing the team dearly. However, I don't think that means he was badly outplayed by Eli. If Eli hadn't had a running game to support him and was forced to carry the load on his own, he would've lost the game as well.

Now, in terms of Favre not having his "A" game...there's no doubt about that.

I hear ya, but it's just woulda, coulda, shoulda. Eli did throw one ball that should have been intercepted, and he threw another ball that was intercepted but was called back on a penalty. Brett threw his first interception when Koren Robinson waved his arms frantically like he was wide open when he wasn't. For a better part of the game, Brett played as well or better than Eli. However, Eli made the plays down the stretch when he had to. Brettdidn't. Favre looked and played like he was cold. Eli didn't.


And oddly, I think Brett was the beneficiary of better pass blocking than Brady would receive 2 weeks later.

[Joemailman]

Favre threw for 230 yards and 2 TD's in regulation in sub-zero temperatures and it wasn't enough. When those kind of numbers aren't enough in that kind of weather, I'd say your real problem is elsewhere. I think the outcome of that game is really why he retired. He gave it is all, and came up short. I think he just felt he had nothing more to give.

Back to the original point of this thread. I think TT values speed (numbers) to a degree, but no more than he does toughness and character. He also looks for guys who fit into what the team is trying to do scheme-wise. For instance, Sporting News had Nelson ranked only 10th among WR"s overall, but had him rated 4th in terms of YAC ability. It's no coincidence that all the WR's TT has drafted are strong in that area, and no surprise that the Packers were the best in the NFL last year in that area.

[Patler]

Favre did not loose the game all by himself, but he sure didn't do much to help win. When I saw Brett standing there pre-game looking like he did not want to be there, I thought right then, 'Brett is going to play bad and we are going to lose'. Prior to that scene, I was sure the Packers were going to win.

More than ever, the Packers needed an emotional leader to inspire the troops and frankly, Brett didn't have it in him.

Sorry. But that is how I saw it. I am a huge Favre fan, have an autographed football, jersey, my 5 YO has a jersey, but that is the way it is. Or that is the way it was, at least on that day.

Yup, exactly the way I saw it, too.

As some of you remember, I predicted right after the season that Favre would retire. To those who watched the game with me, I predicted it that day. It was based on what I saw before and during that game. It appeared like it was the last place he wanted to be, yet it was the NFC Championship game. I think right there he questioned whether he still WANTED to play, even though he still could play.

[Bretsky]

I'm with Tarlam. I saw Brett get badly outplayed by Eli.

I disagree...at least in terms of "badly outplayed". Eli didn't play that great of a game. He was solid, but he really didn't make many plays himself to win the game.

Favre tossed a ball right to Martin that he dropped...which potentially could have been a real game changer. Favre made the single best play of the game on a great pass to Driver in difficult passing conditions.

Favre made one horrible toss in OT, and it wound up costing the team dearly. However, I don't think that means he was badly outplayed by Eli. If Eli hadn't had a running game to support him and was forced to carry the load on his own, he would've lost the game as well.

Now, in terms of Favre not having his "A" game...there's no doubt about that.

I hear ya, but it's just woulda, coulda, shoulda. Eli did throw one ball that should have been intercepted, and he threw another ball that was intercepted but was called back on a penalty. Brett threw his first interception when Koren Robinson waved his arms frantically like he was wide open when he wasn't. For a better part of the game, Brett played as well or better than Eli. However, Eli made the plays down the stretch when he had to. Brettdidn't. Favre looked and played like he was cold. Eli didn't.


And oddly, I think Brett was the beneficiary of better pass blocking than Brady would receive 2 weeks later.

It should be noted that New England didn't keep extra blockers in much as Green Bay did. They thought they could block NYG mana de mano. A lot of times we just figured we'd lose that battle so we reverted back to keeping extras in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It should be noted that New England didn't keep extra blockers in much as Green Bay did. They thought they could block NYG mana de mano. A lot of times we just figured we'd lose that battle so we reverted back to keeping extras in.

I think it was the weather more than anything that dictated that. We didn't do a lot of max protect against the Giants earlier in the year. It wasn't like the Giants were sending out 4-5 receivers in most of their routes.

[Lurker64]

I think it was the weather more than anything that dictated that. We didn't do a lot of max protect against the Giants earlier in the year. It wasn't like the Giants were sending out 4-5 receivers in most of their routes.

The Giants defense also was playing much, much better towards the end of the season than they were earlier in the season. At the beginning of the season they were just getting used to a new system, by the playoffs they apparently had it down.

[Bretsky]

It should be noted that New England didn't keep extra blockers in much as Green Bay did. They thought they could block NYG mana de mano. A lot of times we just figured we'd lose that battle so we reverted back to keeping extras in.

I think it was the weather more than anything that dictated that. We didn't do a lot of max protect against the Giants earlier in the year. It wasn't like the Giants were sending out 4-5 receivers in most of their routes.

It's not not the Giants style to send out 4-5 receivers though; that was part of what made GB's offense explosive for part of the season.

I think MM realized his interior OL could not block Tuck and Company by themselves. Being at the game it was frustrating when their secondary had 1.5 guys covering for 1 guy we were sending out. We really limited out options that game and of course our inability to run just made it worse

[RashanGary]

AT the time, I was a little upset that McCArthy did so much max protect. I was like WTF? they're running out two recievers and the Giants are all over it.

AFter watching what happened to Tom, I think the max protect was the right choice. The better team just won. When you have than many dominate lineman, it's hard to do anything (pass or run).

[Lurker64]

Back on the original topic, it's interesting about the two OL we took. Campen explains about them:
"The two kids we just drafted are very, very competitive players,"

"They will go to the whistle and beyond. They're tough, they hustle, they get downfield, they finish blocks.

"They're high-energy, tough people, and they'll bring that type of attitude to our offensive line."

If you go back and read the blurbs that Packers.com wrote about other OL we picked we read things like

Colledge: "Durable, powerful and quick" and "We feel very strongly he can be an inside or outside player," and "Boise State used a similar style of offense", but no mention at all of his intensity or attitude.

Spitz: "can play both guard positions" and "no problem learning things" and "does whatever it takes", but nothing about his intensity or game attitude.

Coston: "Size, speed, and agility", "potential to play anywhere on the offensive line", and again nothing about his intensity or attitude on the field.

Barbre: "outstanding quickness and blocking skill" and (list of achievements), but we didn't hear much about his intensity or attitude (which, from what I've seen, is actually outstanding.)

Potentially Thompson and McCarthy have realized that one of the problems we've had on the OL, particularly at guard, and particularly in run blocking is that the guys we have (mostly Colledge/Coston, Spitz is fine) just aren't "crazy, get-after-you, intense" kinds of guys. They're just not brawlers and Colledge especially just doesn't seem to have the sort of killer instinct you need inside in the trenches.

So did we potentially spend more time scouting OL that, rather than being "outstanding athletes" are intense guys who want to maul you and blow you off the ball? If so, I think this is an improvement.

[Patler]

I remember the same types of things in other evaluations about Coston, Spitz and Barbre, and even commented last year that TT seems to like guards who have a bit of a nasty streak to them. These are just a couple of the comments I could find quickly about Barbre and Spitz:


A hard worker and intense competitor as well, Barbre may be a major steal if given the time and patience to develop.

About Spitz:


A solid, mobile drive-blocker with a nasty streak that belies his good nature and sense of humor often on display off the field

And it might just be that the Packers haven't even seen much of Spitz's best trait. He appears to have a nasty streak to him that might become more obvious when the players put their pads on in training camp.

On the other hand, TT has often mentioned that he values versatility in his linemen, because you can't carry enough of them on your roster to have a designated backup for each starter, and multiple injuries will require players shifting positions.

[motife]

One nay-sayer, negative person said, "If there is such a thing as a poor man's Bill Schroeder, Jordy Nelson is it."

Jordy Nelson was 1st team all Big 12 last year with an unheard of 122 receptions with a very strong 13.6yd avg, and like Greg Jennings for Western Michigan and James Jones for San Jose St., was THE stud on the Kansas St. team which faced much tougher competition. As one scout put it, stop Jordy Nelson and you beat Kansas St., but nobody stopped him.

James Jones was at the atrium during the draft, and was not happy when they drafted a wide receiver with their first pick. Like last year, it was strange that they drafted toward one of the team strengths (WR this year, DT last year) with the first pick.

But one of the reasons GB had the 2nd ranked offense last year was their 5 WR spread formation, which REALLY put pressure on teams who did not have a lot of depth among their DB's. And the offensive line seemed to handle, miraculously, the pass blocking OK, except in the Dallas game. In the Chicago and NYG games, Favre and the offense couldn't seem to deal with the cold, but geez... we lost by a FG in overtime against NY. The problem in that game was we couldn't cover Plaxico Burress or run the ball.

Which gets us back to why did we not draft more towards a team weakness like CB (Al Harris, Jarret Bush, etc. kind of suck.) Patrick Lee is a start in that direction, but it's going to be another season where in a big game, if the Packers face premiere wide receivers you just have to hold your breath. One scout thinks Auburn didn't know what they had in Lee. That he's much better than his number of starts.

Drafting Brohm should help both Rodgers and Brohm. Although often these two QB situations don't go well, because the starter feels under too much pressure outside just the game environment. But, if the Packers groom Brohm, and Rodgers turns out to be the real deal, the Packers might have good trade bait with Brohm. Rodgers is very fragile, apparently, so the Packers had to do something. Matt Flynn was a real head scratcher, but he did win a national championship with LSU and provides more developmental depth and insurance, and again possible value down the road.

I'm really excited about Jermichael the TE. He just seems like a kickass down the field TE stud. There is no more beautiful play than a TE making a 40 yard gain, ala Jackie Harris.

Jeremy Thompson has not shown a lot of pass rush in his career, but he was ranked 48th in the draft, or mid 2nd round, and the Packers moved up to get him in the 4th. Jon Gruden says he's another Aaron Kampman.

Brenno Giacomi? and Stottin may or may not be good competition for the guard spot opposite Spitz, and Spitz is just adequate. Colledge and Coston are not the answer. The best guard on the team potentially is Allan Barbre, who is another Mike Wahle some are saying. If Barbre doesn't start by the end of training camp, I'll be disappointed.