P Jon Ryan Friday: 8 punts, 63.1 ydavg, 4.56 hang time

[motife]

http://x98.xanga.com/921a20454323557547295/m38572406.jpg
Ryan gets a leg up on Sander
By Rob Demovsky
PackersNews.com

(note from motife : McCarthy in his interview said he'd not watched Ryan punt Friday, but mentioned both he and the reporters noticed the booming sound of the ball exploding off Ryan's foot.)

Jon Ryan, the unknown Canadian who never has played in an NFL game, on Friday had the kind of day that might just win him the punting job with the Green Bay Packers.

Sure, it was only one day in June at an organized team activity workout, but Ryan booted the ball with the kind of power, consistency and hang time that incumbent B.J. Sander never has shown in his two-plus years with the team. With eight punts that averaged 63.1 yards and 4.56 seconds of hang time, Ryan probably took the lead in the race to win the punting job — if he hadn’t done so already.

Ryan, who played two seasons in the CFL before the Packers signed him this offseason, took the first reps on Friday during a special teams period that focused solely on punting. That alone is a sign he had moved ahead of Sander. By comparison, Sander, in the same conditions, kicked seven times and averaged 47.9 yards and 4.05 seconds of hang time.

“He had a good day,” Packers director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie said of Ryan. “This was a good day for him. B.J.’s had a couple of good days, too.”

Sander, a third-round draft pick in 2004 who struggled late last season before missing the final two games with a fracture in his left (kicking) leg, lacks Ryan’s powerful leg.

Backed up against his end line, with the line of scrimmage at the 2-yard line and a slight wind at his back, Ryan kicked seven times and Sander six. Ryan had kicks that carried in the air distances of 57 yards (with 5.0 seconds of hang time), 58 yards (4.5 seconds), 69 yards (5.2 seconds), 60 yards (4.2 seconds), 62 yards (4.7 seconds), 67 yards (4.8 seconds) and 66 yards (4.6 seconds).

The 24-year-old Ryan didn’t seem surprised when those numbers were read back to him after Friday’s practice.

“If I stay focused back there and don’t try to kill it, that’s when I usually get my good ones,” Ryan said. “I can hit them 55, 65 yards. I’ll take it. … It’s just one of those things I’ve been working on — the hang time — and it’s coming more naturally now. When I was in the CFL, you line-drived it a little more.”

Sander’s six punts went 42 yards (4.3 seconds), 49 yards (4.6 seconds), 45 yards (3.6 seconds), 43 yards (3.6 seconds), 49 yards (4.0 seconds) and 46 yards (4.5 seconds).

The two then each took one punt with the line of scrimmage the 20-yard line. Ryan’s punt went 66 yards in the air with a hang time of 3.5 seconds, while Sander’s went 61 yards with a 3.8-second hang time.

It was easily Ryan’s most consistent day. From the first minicamp through this week’s OTAs, Ryan has shown he has the stronger leg, but Sander hasn’t had as many shanks or miss-hits. But Ryan’s ball-striking was near perfect on Friday. If he can continue to make that kind of contact and keep his get-off time around 1.25 seconds, he’ll probably win the job.

When he came to the Packers, Ryan, who was given a $35,000 signing bonus, was taking about 1.5 seconds to get the ball off from the time he caught it. He said during the OTAs, his kicks had get-off times between 1.24 and 1.32 seconds. Ryan didn’t face a live rush from the defense during the drill.

“Heââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s got to continue to improve that,” McKenzie said. “ThatâÃ� �‚¬â„¢s something there’s obviously been questions about, but that’s why we’re out here doing this.”

Sander wasn’t in the locker room when reporters were allowed in after Friday’s practice, and special teams coach Mike Stock also was unavailable. Coach Mike McCarthy said he was working with the quarterbacks during the special teams period and didn’t watch the punting. He said he planned to watch the tape later in the day.

Ryan said it’s been a healthy competition between him and Sander, and Ryan chose his words carefully when asked if he thought he had moved ahead of Sander.

“I wouldn’t say (that) necessarily,” Ryan said. “Heââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s had some great days. I think today I had a fairly good day, but it’s a long haul from here until the season starts. We’re going to have a lot of days and a lot of punting ahead of us. You’re not going to win the job in one day, that’s for sure. I would think that they would hold on to both of us for a while and make one guy get ahead of the other guy and really earn that spot.”

Ryan last season set the CFL’s single-season punting record with a 50.6-yard average. Sander finished 30th in the NFL last season in gross punting average (39.2 yards) and 31st in net average (33.9 yards).

Ryan also might need to prove he’s a competent holder on place kicks. He was a backup holder in the CFL and has spent time after each practice this week working on his technique.

“Itââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s getting pretty close to where it needs to be,” Ryan said. “I feel a lot more comfortable with it then when I got here.”

[Tarlam!]

The thing is, the guy is only gonna get better and he's putting BJ under enormous pressure. I like it.

[Patler]

I absolutely refuse to get excited about a punter until he kicks in games. Over the years the Packers have had some tremendous legs in camp, their names I've forgotten, but they would routinely get off booming 60 yarders. When the games started, under defensive pressure at full speed, it was shank after shank after shank.

I'm not saying he can't do it, I hope he can, but the speed of the NFL and the demand for hang time has brought down many strong legs in the past. That's why many punters struggle and bounce from team to team early in their careers before finally getting it.

[red]

OMG, WOW

over 5 seconds of hang time, and 67 yard punts. bye bye BJ

just look at his wind up in that picture. see those things sticking out of his legs BJ, those are called muscles. kickers and punters are allowed to try and get those

[Tarlam!]

Patler, I am neither excited nor disappointed. I think it is quite telling that BJ sucks as badly in games as in training camp, and the additional competition will make or break him.

Also, this Canadian guy's leg has been a strength under fire. Of course the CFL is different, but the kid has talent and is improving. Since we have been without a decent punter for two years, we have nothing to lose.

I am FAR more concerned about our replacement in the place kicking game.

[Patler]

Patler, I am neither excited nor disappointed. I think it is quite telling that BJ sucks as badly in games as in training camp, and the additional competition will make or break him.

Also, this Canadian guy's leg has been a strength under fire. Of course the CFL is different, but the kid has talent and is improving. Since we have been without a decent punter for two years, we have nothing to lose.

I am FAR more concerned about our replacement in the place kicking game.

Tarlam, I didn't mean to direct my comment at you, it was just a general one on my part.

I will wait for two reasons that were discussed in an article about 6 weeks ago that I have lost track of. The first and most significant part had two scouts that were named from teams very interested in him. Both said his leg strength was very, very exciting, but they said he needed to take a full half-second off his get off time. One made the comment that it would probably take him a year to do that in game situations, and you might have to be willing to accept a few blocked punts from him his first year if you go with him as your punter.

The second issue was the hang time versus distance issue. It got into more detail than I cared to try and figure out at the time (I was tired, didn't bookmark it, and now can't find it!). Anyway, it explained from a coverage perspective how a 45 yarder with a 4.6 (or whatever) hangtime is better than a 60 yarder at 5.1. Your coverage can't cover those 15 yards in an extra half-scond. The 45 yarder is a fair catch or short return, the 60 yarder lets the return man get a head of steam and maybe go all the way.

[KYPack]

This is great.

Let's get rid of Sanders,
The U71,
David Martin,
& every other reminder of past experiments that didn't work worth shit.

[motife]

This is great.

Let's get rid of Sanders,
The U71,
David Martin,
& every other reminder of past experiments that didn't work worth shit.

http://www.packerforum.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10289/normal_sherman_sleep.jpg

[motife]

Anyway, it explained from a coverage perspective how a 45 yarder with a 4.6 (or whatever) hangtime is better than a 60 yarder at 5.1. Your coverage can't cover those 15 yards in an extra half-scond. The 45 yarder is a fair catch or short return, the 60 yarder lets the return man get a head of steam and maybe go all the way.

Most punt returners line up about 45 yards from the line of scrimmage.

Unless they line up 65 yards back expecting a 60 yard punt, they're going to be running backwards when the 60 yard punt comes, while rubber necking trying to find the ball in the air and not being positioned to make the catch. I doubt any punt returner could get a head of steam in that scenario.

If they do lineup 65 yards back expecting the 60 yard punt, and it's not 60 yards, then that's poor special teams playing watching the ball land at 45 yards and just rolling another 15 with the punt coverage team gathered round it.

Jon Ryan's major problem is inconsistency and his get off time. It has taken him way too long to punt and he had a big number of blocks in the CFL. With that reputation, you know he's going to be mercilessly tested in the regular season. A punt block is rare, but is almost always a disaster game losing event.

[Scott Campbell]

I expected this kind of distance, as that is the rep he brought with him from the Great White North. But I didn't expect him to shorten up his delivery this quickly. The shortened delivery might explain some of the shanks, and you'd expect him to get more and more comfortable with the new delivery by the time the season starts. Hopefully that'll result in less shanks.

This guy also had the reputation of being able to kick directionally as well. That, and his distance should put a lot of pressure on return men.

[Scott Campbell]

Anybody know if he can kick off?

[Tarlam!]

Anybody know if he can kick off?

I have always had an issue with the fact that the same guy can't do both, but heck, I am from a far away land.....

[BF4MVP]

full half-second
Hey, this kinda looks like something Yogi Berra would say..

Ninety percent of the game is half mental.. :lol:

[red]

I expected this kind of distance, as that is the rep he brought with him from the Great White North. But I didn't expect him to shorten up his delivery this quickly. The shortened delivery might explain some of the shanks, and you'd expect him to get more and more comfortable with the new delivery by the time the season starts. Hopefully that'll result in less shanks.

This guy also had the reputation of being able to kick directionally as well. That, and his distance should put a lot of pressure on return men.

i agree that him having to shorten his time probably has a lot to do with the shanks

i don't agree with whoever said bj is doing better in the shank department. from what i've read it looks like BJ hasd shanked a whole hell of a lot this offseason. who would you rather have? a guy that shanks a lot and gets his best punts 40 yards down field. or the guy that shanks every once in awhile and his shorest kicks go over 40 yards with his longs pushing 65 to 70 yards.

this race isn't even close in my mind

as for the kickoffs, hell he can punt the ball further then our last kicker could kick off

and he did do the kicking in college

[GoPackGo]

see those things sticking out of his legs BJ, those are called muscles. kickers and punters are allowed to try and get those

post of the year :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

This has been mentioned before, but that dude is one really white mutha fucka. I'm going to call him Powder from now on.

[oregonpackfan]

Perhaps the Packers can finally get rid of the B.J. Sanders draft mistake.

Oregonpackfan

[red]

Perhaps the Packers can finally get rid of the B.J. Sanders draft mistake.

Oregonpackfan

maybe we can trade him to the texans for a 3rd rounder?

[Tarlam!]

Perhaps the Packers can finally get rid of the B.J. Sanders draft mistake.

Oregonpackfan

maybe we can trade him to the texans for a 3rd rounder?

Are you kidding? Nothing less than a second and two players!!! Shermy is buying! :cool:

[Guiness]

You're right Sham - we've got to see him at full speed. However, I think he's more seasoned than a college kid, because a couple of years in the CFL helps. With its wider field, it's harder to block rushers, so it's not like he'd have more time to get them off than in the NFL.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think in Winnipeg last year, he lined up further from the line of scrimmage than most punters, to give him that extra .2 seconds or so that it takes him to get through his delivery. I don't know if Davis can handle that, or if it would cause him to get run over.

You do make a good point though. I've mentioned before, the punter for my university team routinely smoked 70 yarders. He never went anywhere.

Ok though - can't we invite JW back for just ONE day so this guy can hoof him one in the nutz??? :wink:

[woodbuck27]

Anybody know if he can kick off?

CFL future HOFer Troy Westwood handled both kickoff and FG duty for the Winnepeg Blue Bombers the two Seasons that Jon Ryan star'd with them as their punter (2004-05).

Jon Ryan was a star punter and also a slotback in College and is considered very athletic and intelligent. He's coachable and still has an upside as a punter. I won't be in the least surprised if he becomes a Packer considering BJ Sanders results with us.

Jon Ryan is flat out an exceptionally gifted punter and we are very fortunate to have the opportunity to test him and gain the benefit his talents.

[Scott Campbell]

Anybody know if he can kick off?

CFL future HOFer Troy Westwood handled both kickoff and FG duty for the Winnepeg Blue Bombers the two Seasons that Jon Ryan starred with them as their punter (2004-05).

Was that guy so long on kick offs that there never was any need to try Ryan? I'm wondering if Ryan can't do it, or if they just didn't need him to do it.

Cundiff isn't supposed to have very long kick offs.

[motife]

Here's the quote McCarthy had about the percussive sound of Ryan's punts :

“The balls have been coming off his foot,” said Packers coach Mike McCarthy, who said he missed Ryan’s punting exhibition because he was working with the quarterbacks. “You guys can probably hear it over on the sidelines.”

Not to mention downtown Ashwaubenon and south to De Pere.

“Heââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s got a very explosive leg,” McCarthy added.

For his part, Ryan remained low key about his stunning performance, noting that this was just one day of practice some three months before the season begins.

“Heââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s had some great days. I think today I had a fairly good day, but it's a long haul from here until the season starts,” said Ryan, who averaged a CFL-record 50.6 yards per punt last season with Winnipeg, which makes the Frozen Tundra seem like a day at the beach. “Weââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢re going to have a lot of days and a lot of punting ahead of us. You’re not going to win the job in one day, that’s for sure.”

It’s hardly breaking news that Sander’s job is in jeopardy. He ranked 30th in the NFL in punting last season, getting progressively worse as the season grew progressively colder. And Mike Sherman, the man who so foolishly traded up to grab Sander in the third round in 2004, is no longer here to be Sander’s protective big brother.

The key for Ryan is to not just have one huge day, but a lot of solid days. He’s an NFL novice who hasn’t been challenged with an all-out punt-block charge. The world’s strongest leg doesn’t matter at all if the punt’s getting blocked into your face. Hang time, which isn’t the vital stat on the bigger fields of the CFL as it is in the NFL, will be a key. So will consistency; a pair of 45-yard punts is infinitely better than a 65-yarder and a 30-yarder, even though the latter’s average is greater.

“If I stay focused back there and don't try to kill it, that's when I usually get my good ones,” Ryan said. “I can hit them 55, 65 yards. I'll take it. It’s just one of those things I’ve been working on — the hang time — and it’s coming more naturally now.”

The Packers gave Ryan a paltry $35,000 bonus to challenge Sander. Ryan gladly took the money, no doubt seeing a golden opportunity while taking a quick scan of last year’s punting leaders.

“I think B.J.’s a great punter,” said Ryan with a surprisingly straight face after telling that whopper of a tall tale. “Iââ⠀šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m not going to slight him whatsoever. But they expressed to me that they’re going to give me a fair shot and a fair look, and you know, that’s all you can ask for. If you can go into camp with another guy and play better than him, then they’re going to give you the spot, and I wanted to go into a situation like that.”

So far, Ryan’s on track to get that spot and boot Sander right out of town.


from the Packer Report

[woodbuck27]

Anybody know if he can kick off?

CFL future HOFer Troy Westwood handled both kickoff and FG duty for the Winnepeg Blue Bombers the two Seasons that Jon Ryan starred with them as their punter (2004-05).

Was that guy so long on kick offs that there never was any need to try Ryan? I'm wondering if Ryan can't do it, or if they just didn't need him to do it.

Cundiff isn't supposed to have very long kick offs.


Here is my take on it Scott.

Troy Westwood has been around since 1991 and a really talented kicker in the CFL. It's my guess because of his experience Westwood had dibs on the kickoff job as well as kicking FG's.

Jon Ryan was an excellent punter in College and also a top scorer on Offence as a slotback. He was drafted in the third round by the Blue bombers and was tagged to be the teams primary punter. He to my knowledge didn't get involved in kicking off as a PRO.

He has a very strong leg and certainly would be considered and tested for kickoffs by the Packers if he has the talent there. His present day load and concerns are punting and developing as a holder.

[Patler]

You're right Sham - we've got to see him at full speed. However, I think he's more seasoned than a college kid, because a couple of years in the CFL helps. With its wider field, it's harder to block rushers, so it's not like he'd have more time to get them off than in the NFL.


Actually, the article I referred to siad that "get off" times in the CFL are much longer than in the NFL. That was the basis for their main concern. Again, not that he won't be able to do it, but he might not be able to this year.

About the hang time/distance issue, they mentioned there are a number of punters now who could routinely kick 60 yarders if you wanted them to, but every kicker has to find their best balance between distance and hangtime so their coverage gets there at the proper time. For most kickers that is something under 50 yards.

I'll say this much, I would be much happier with him as a second punter than I was with Sander two years ago, simply because the upside is so much greater with him. As it is, he doesn't have to be great to beat out Sander, just being OK will do it. Then, hopefully, he will get better and better and be a long time answer to the punting revolving door we've had in GB.

[Patler]

I mentioned this last year when Longwell's kickoffs were discussed, and the possibility of using the punter. Hentrich has kicked off during his punting career too at times. NFL coaches maintain that the punting leg motion and kicking off are very different. Kicking off is more similar to place kicking. They believe that kicking off screws up the punters consistency, and can lead to injuries because of different muscle actions.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, that is just the feeling among NFL coaches. They just don't like using punters to kick off.

[Guiness]

Get off times are slower in the CFL, eh? Odd, doesn't seem so, but I've never gotten out the stopwatch. Maybe I should.

I know that hang times are definitely lower. One reason for that is that you get a single point for punting the ball through the endzone (remember ours are 25yds deep) so I'd guess punters work on long, low drives to score those points. I saw another article that said 'because of the larger field, hang time is not as important'. That seems like a crock to me - I don't know why that would be the case.

On the other point - can't think of any punters that kick-off, myself.

[Noodle]

Like everyone else, I'm encouraged by this. Anyone know if they were kicking NFL K balls? If he was rocking K balls like that, wow!

As to the kick-off v. punting thing, have you ever seen top goal keepers in soccer? They take the goal kicks, using a kicking style identical to a kick-off, and they punt (or more commonly, drop kick), and those guys don't seem to have a problem with the transition, or with drilling the ball.

So I don't see why you wouldn't let him take a crack at it.

And I'm not so worried about his line drive kicking. That's a nice skill to have when the wind is blowing in your face on a cold December Sunday in Lambeau.

[up_packer_fan]

Perhaps the Packers can finally get rid of the B.J. Sanders draft mistake.

Oregonpackfan

maybe we can trade him to the texans for a 3rd rounder?

I would "settle" for the 4th and 5th we gave up to get him.

[jack's smirking revenge]

This has been mentioned before, but that dude is one really white mutha fucka. I'm going to call him Powder from now on.

That's funny stuff Harv. Powder it is.... Just can't play a game at Lambeau when a storm is nearby...

tyler

[MJZiggy]

Hey UP, welcome to the forum. Enjoy!

[Tarlam!]

I think the whole punting snap should be redesigned. Punters currently wait in the pocket, take a step after taking the snap and let loose. It's a lot like a golf swing, only under the pressure of being tackled before you hit the ball.


I Think the punter should become more mobile. I think he should stand way back and sprint into the snap. I think he should side step the defense if required and then, he should pass or punt on the fly. He might even decide to go for the 1st down.

Anyway, if I coached punters like rugby players, it would revolutionize 4th downs.

[woodbuck27]

oregonpackfan wrote:

Perhaps the Packers can finally get rid of the B.J. Sanders draft mistake.

Oregonpackfan

"maybe we can trade him to the texans for a 3rd rounder?"



Ohhhhh YOU know, if BJ Sander is cut, he's going next to the TEXANS.

The Houston 'Packers' errrr Texans

[woodbuck27]

I think the whole punting snap should be redesigned. Punters currently wait in the pocket, take a step after taking the snap and let loose. It's a lot like a golf swing, only under the pressure of being tackled before you hit the ball.


I Think the punter should become more mobile. I think he should stand way back and sprint into the snap. I think he should side step the defense if required and then, he should pass or punt on the fly. He might even decide to go for the 1st down.

Anyway, if I coached punters like rugby players, it would revolutionize 4th downs.


But Tarlam that would be alot. . . no alot worse than going for it on 4th and four. Just got to admire your enthusiasm though - bring a little Australian Rules Football into it.

[Tarlam!]

Woody, just like I do in my real job, I challende the status quo. I dare to ask why. I am not afraid to say "I don't get it, explain it to me, one more time for the dummies".

Have you ever heard about the chimps in captivity? Well, I refuse to accept things can't be done another way, a better way. I watch the NFL, and I cringe every time the punting, kick-off unit trot on. I could set it up better.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, just like I do in my real job, I challende the status quo. I dare to ask why. I am not afraid to say "I don't get it, explain it to me, one more time for the dummies".

Have you ever heard about the chimps in captivity? Well, I refuse to accept things can't be done another way, a better way. I watch the NFL, and I cringe every time the punting, kick-off unit trot on. I could set it up better.

In other words. Your one of those " tradition is spelled . . . S-T-A-L-E "
to YOU, sorta guys!?

You may be an Aquarias?

[Scott Campbell]

I think the whole punting snap should be redesigned. Punters currently wait in the pocket, take a step after taking the snap and let loose. It's a lot like a golf swing, only under the pressure of being tackled before you hit the ball.


I Think the punter should become more mobile. I think he should stand way back and sprint into the snap. I think he should side step the defense if required and then, he should pass or punt on the fly. He might even decide to go for the 1st down.

Anyway, if I coached punters like rugby players, it would revolutionize 4th downs.


Maybe Garo Yepremian was just ahead of his time.

Garo's Goof:
Super Bowl VII: Dolphins' kicker Garo Yepremian tries to play quarterback after a botched FG attempt with 2:07 left and Miami leading Washington 14-0. As he tries to pass, the ball slips out of his hands and the Redskins' Mike Bass returns it for a TD. The Dolphins hold on, however, to complete their 17-0 season.

http://www.autographedtoyou.com/celebpics/garo_yepremian3.jpg

[swede]

Have you ever heard about the chimps in captivity?

What have they been saying about us now? If it's about the 900 number charges the researchers have only themselves to blame for leaving the cell phone on the two-way window ledge.

(It's easy not to get caught. Gorman dials with his feet while Binky throws feces at the window as a diversion. I use the opportunity to steal the other guys' bananas.)

Whoops. Gotta log off. I'm supposed to be matching colors and shapes on this workstation.

[Tarlam!]

Swede, BOMNF!!!!!!!!! I'll share the analogy with you on PM when I finally find it!

Woody, not Aquarious. 11 more tries.

Scotty, he wasn't coached by me!

[woodbuck27]

Swede, BOMNF!!!!!!!!! I'll share the analogy with you on PM when I finally find it!

Woody, not Aquarious. 11 more tries.

Scotty, he wasn't coached by me!


OK . . . LEO then?

[Tarlam!]

And then there were 10....

[Tarlam!]

In all fairness, I was born on a cusp, but, my ascendant does re-emphasise my sun sign....

[RashanGary]

Swede, BOMNF!!!!!!!!!

BTW WTF is BOMNF

[Tarlam!]

This is a Tarlam copyright thingy that has only found any appoval since posting here.....

Beer Outta My Nostrils Funny.

I was witness on JSO to a bunch of the blue dog's incredibly funny stuff, and people would constantly complain they needed a new keyboard, or they had beer outta their nostrils after reading something he wrote. I just captured his moment.

[woodbuck27]

In all fairness, I was born on a cusp, but, my ascendant does re-emphasise my sun sign....

Now that is what I call a giant leap of a hint Tarlam. I'm zeroing in on the sign for you now for sure . . . NOT.

Getting a little nervous too. If I don't watch out, I'll have SOV all over me for this exploration away from pure Packer prattle.

[Tarlam!]

In all fairness, I was born on a cusp, but, my ascendant does re-emphasise my sun sign....

Now that is what I call a giant leap of a hint Tarlam. I'm zeroing in on the sign for you now for sure . . . NOT.

Getting a little nervous too. If I don't watch out, I'll have SOV all over me for this exploration away from pure Packer prattle.

Just fucket SOV, and go with the most conceited sign....