How many TD's does Arod throw in 2008?

[RashanGary]

Favre threw 20, 18 and 28 the last three years for an average of 22 TD's per season. The Packers have not improved their Oline. Driver is older but Nelson is added. The WR's should be similar. Franks is gone, but we have a rookie backing up the TE position. The running game should be pretty similar. All things are pretty much equal. If the greatest ever could only average 22 per season with this team of misfits, how will a guy who's never been special at anything rate?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I vote zero.

Aaron Roders spelled backward reads Injury-prone.

[Bretsky]

Favre threw 20, 18 and 28 the last three years for an average of 22 TD's per season. The Packers have not improved their Oline. Driver is older but Nelson is added. The WR's should be similar. Franks is gone, but we have a rookie backing up the TE position. The running game should be pretty similar. All things are pretty much equal. If the greatest ever could only average 22 per season with this team of misfits, how will a guy who's never been special at anything rate?

IMO it's not fair at all to take an average of the past three years to help water down our expectations for AROD.

Two years ago Favre has next to nothing for WR's when they all went down injured. We had Taco Wallace, Chatman, Jones (not one worth beans) and other wanna be's that included Da Fruad. Favre had a nice start to that season, but his stats went down the tubes after all of the injuries. Also had the likes of Will Whittaker and Adrien Klemm imitating starters and injuries along the OL that led to that horrific season.

One year ago Jennings was hurt a portion of the season and when he went down the WR core was rather pedestrian. Wells was starting to develop and our OG's were thrown into the fire and well below average.

Last year, for the first year under the TT reign, we had adequate talent at WR through the first three spots. Favre threw 28. That should be our starting point where we decide where AROD's expectations go against. TT chose not to upgrade our OL because he felt it was good enough as is. There were some dam good OG's out there and the belief must have been ours will improve enough to where the money was not worth it.

Next year, assuming TT's top draft pick is worth beans, this will be hands down the most talented group of WR's from 1-4 that we have seen Green Bay in a Long Long Time.

I don't expect AROD to throw 28; he's going to be erratic IMO from game to game. But no way am I going to take an average of the past three years when the talent level on offense with AROD next year is nowhere close to what Favre had to deal with two and three years ago.

BTW, good thread to debate some info

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just remember that only 12 guys threw more than 20 TDs last year. I think 20-22 TDs is baseline for a decent year in TD passes. Phillip Rivers threw 21. Jay Cutler threw 20. Jason Campbell threw 12 in 13 games.

What would people predict on completion % and interceptions thrown?

11 guys threw 15 or more interceptions.
Completion % was up last year. More than half the QBs in the league completed 62% of their passes.

I'm thinking a good year for Rodgers would be about 62 comp. %, 20-22 TDs, 14-15 interceptions.

[red]

i think our wr's will be much improved

this is the year jennings becomes a household name, and i see jones making the big jump also. driver can afford to loose a step, he's not a dominate player because of his speed or jumping ability. he's great because he runs great routes and can weasel his way away from tacklers, like jerry rice. and rice hung around for awhile. nelson, at best, should be able to do what jennings and jones did their rookie years, which will be plenty from our #4 wr.

i'll say maybe 20-25.

in our system, the qb does not have to be a world beater. he just has to be smart, run the system, and get the ball in the hands of those wr's and let them work their magic.

a lot of those td's that favre threw last year, were not because brett made a good play. they were td's because our wr's made great plays after they caught the ball

[red]

Just remember that only 12 guys threw more than 20 TDs last year. I think 20-22 TDs is baseline for a decent year in TD passes. Phillip Rivers threw 21. Jay Cutler threw 20. Jason Campbell threw 12 in 13 games.

What would people predict on completion % and interceptions thrown?

11 guys threw 15 or more interceptions.
Completion % was up last year. More than half the QBs in the league completed 62% of their passes.

I'm thinking a good year for Rodgers would be about 62 comp. %, 20-22 TDs, 14-15 interceptions.

great point you make there about not a lot of qb's going over 20.

i would guess he has a pretty high completion %. i'm thinking he's going to throw the short quick passes more then brett did. which will also lead to a low number of int's. i'll guess around 10.

rodgers doesn't seem like the qb thats going to take a lot of the gambles that brett took

he had a high completion % in college, 64% and very few int's thrown

[RashanGary]

Ummm. . . . What are you talking about, Bretsky? The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league. Without Brett Favre, they don't have a chance. The OL is probably the worst in the NFL. TT completely passed over the good guards in favor of the junk already on our roster. We're pretty much screwed. The Tackles are older. The TE position is Lee and some rookie. The backup RB position is junk. WE don't have a FB. If not for Favre last year, this offense is probably the worst in the NFL, but Favre willed the team to TD's and victories. He carried the team on his back. Without Favre, the offense will fall apart. Rodgers will be killed. The WR's will look pedestrian (what they really are without Favre). The TE's are just junk and the RB core after Grant is shit. We don't even have one NFL FB. Ted Thompson has'nt spent a penny. We're paying less for our roster than just about any team in the league. How do we even expect a 1st year starter to come close to the numbers Favre put up. Rodgers doens't know the offense and he can't read defenses. The whole thing is pretty much doomed.

Rodgers TD expectation should start at 12 (half of what the greatest ever does) and his yards expectation in year 1 should start at 1,500. There is just no way this offense moves anywhere without Favre. If the greatest ever is really just replacable, it sure makes me wonder about what the greatest ever means.

[RashanGary]

And not only did Favre carry the offense on his back, but he also carried teh ST's and defense on his back too. Without Favre's great example of acctually showing up for most of the minicamps and TC (while collecting his 10 millino dollar pay check and proving football is ususally really important to him), what do you thinkt he defense and STers would have done? Without Favre I don't think we have a leader or a hard worker on this team. They'll collapse when his leadership is void. Also, during the game, the defense and ST's would just fold if not for Favre standing there on the sidelines using the force to improve their play. ALSO, Favre single handedly willed an offense of misfits to play great so the defense wasn't as tired and the ST's was always in good position.

From top to bottom, this team is screwed. I was going to drive to Tower-Drive bridge and dive into a cement bridge pier but my wife talked me out of it. I'll watch this season, but I really don't expect much. Anyone who has any type of expectation for this team of misfits is on some good drugs and I want some. Last year was not an indication of the team. It was an indication of what Brett Favre can do when he wants to try. These are undisputable facts.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Ummm. . . . What are you talking about, Bretsky? The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league. Without Brett Favre, they don't have a chance. The OL is probably the worst in the NFL. TT completely passed over the good guards in favor of the junk already on our roster. We're pretty much screwed. The Tackles are older. The TE position is Lee and some rookie. The backup RB position is junk. WE don't have a FB. If not for Favre last year, this offense is probably the worst in the NFL, but Favre willed the team to TD's and victories. He carried the team on his back. Without Favre, the offense will fall apart. Rodgers will be killed. The WR's will look pedestrian (what they really are without Favre). The TE's are just junk and the RB core after Grant is shit. We don't even have one NFL FB. Ted Thompson has'nt spent a penny. We're paying less for our roster than just about any team in the league. How do we even expect a 1st year starter to come close to the numbers Favre put up. Rodgers doens't know the offense and he can't read defenses. The whole thing is pretty much doomed.

Rodgers TD expectation should start at 12 (half of what the greatest ever does) and his yards expectation in year 1 should start at 1,500. There is just no way this offense moves anywhere without Favre. If the greatest ever is really just replacable, it sure makes me wonder about what the greatest ever means.




You used to make level-headed posts JH, but these last two are horrible. Football is not a 1 man sport, if you are predicting the Packers fall apart just because they lost Favre you are a fool.

Our #2 WR could be a lot of teams #1, and our #3 could be a lot of teams #2. Look at the highlights last year, the RECIEVERS made the big plays for Favre, not the other way around. If not for Favre we might've won the NFC Championship game, he was more to blame for that loss than anyone else. And yes, I know you'll argue Harris, the fact is DD made the first TD, and Favre looked pretty average to sub-par that game.

Next, our guards are all in their 3rd and 2nd year, we don't even know what they are capable of yet. Players don't just get drafted and become studs, they must develop.

Our Tackles are just 1 year older, and were of a very high caliber last year. Same goes for our CB's(I hear most of you scoffing and calling them old men.)

We have a lot of YOUNG depth at the RB spot, again, needs to develop.

The fact is the Packers went 13-3 with the youngest team in the league with one of the oldest and greatest QB's of all time. Favre, by no means, carried the Packers on his back, we saw a young team really develop last year. I for one am very excited about the future of this young team.

I thought you were a more knowledgeable poster than this JH. Maybe you've just bought in to too much media hype over Favre, or maybe you're still bitter about the almost trip to the Superbowl.

You need to give a lot more credit to the Packers and a little less to the Brett Favre of last year.

[RashanGary]

No. You're wrong tpb.


Our guards are horrible. They're not better then Whittaker and Klemm of two years ago and the tackles are worse.

If you don't think Favre made the WR's into what they were, then you must not have paid attention to Favre's greatness. He was constantly getting crushed after passes (but the stat person is a liar and made it look like he was rarely pressured or hit, let alone sacked).


Ted Thompson is sitting with two thumbs firmly placed in his butt with 30 million dollars to spend and what does he bring us? Brandon Chillar. Then he trades our best DT for a 2nd round pick who either will not play or if he does he'll be a rookie QB so it won't matter anyway. The Packers have basically given up on the season. Ooooh future smuture. There is nothing gained by drafting players when you can go otu and buy them. You get what you pay for in this league and we havn't spent a thing.

In the mean time, the Vikings have gone out and solidified an already great team by sprikling in stud playmakers like, such as: Bernard Barrian and Jared Allen. They sold out useless draft picks who never play well in year 1 so they could add real pieces for right now. They are a team that knows what is going on. They are ready to win. The Packers might be poised with tons of cap space and they might have loads of young players who may or may not be good coming up. The Vikings have none of that, but what they do have is a team ready to dominate right now. This team is screwed, tpb. Screwed. Again, these are indisputable facts and if you want to argue I can jsut say 4 words - Brett Favre, Ron Wolf and I think everyone can put together the rest for why we are screwed.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm going to predict 25, but I wouldn't be at all surprised at 28, 29, or 30.

Why? Unlike with Favre, where he had his rep, and teams generally defensed him first, Rodgers has little or no rep, and teams will be playing to stop the run first, at least until Rodgers establishes himself.

It's a good bet that part of the difference between Favre 1 year ago and Favre 2 and 3 years ago is the play of Ryan Grant. Rodgers not only won't be defensed like Favre under normal circumstances. He will be defensed by teams concentrating on stopping a top quality RB in Grant.

[Lurker64]

Ladies and gentlemen, don't feed the troll. JH doesn't believe a single thing he's saying here.

[Packnut]

Ummm. . . . What are you talking about, Bretsky? The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league. Without Brett Favre, they don't have a chance. The OL is probably the worst in the NFL. TT completely passed over the good guards in favor of the junk already on our roster. We're pretty much screwed. The Tackles are older. The TE position is Lee and some rookie. The backup RB position is junk. WE don't have a FB. If not for Favre last year, this offense is probably the worst in the NFL, but Favre willed the team to TD's and victories. He carried the team on his back. Without Favre, the offense will fall apart. Rodgers will be killed. The WR's will look pedestrian (what they really are without Favre). The TE's are just junk and the RB core after Grant is shit. We don't even have one NFL FB. Ted Thompson has'nt spent a penny. We're paying less for our roster than just about any team in the league. How do we even expect a 1st year starter to come close to the numbers Favre put up. Rodgers doens't know the offense and he can't read defenses. The whole thing is pretty much doomed.

Rodgers TD expectation should start at 12 (half of what the greatest ever does) and his yards expectation in year 1 should start at 1,500. There is just no way this offense moves anywhere without Favre. If the greatest ever is really just replacable, it sure makes me wonder about what the greatest ever means.




You used to make level-headed posts JH, but these last two are horrible. Football is not a 1 man sport, if you are predicting the Packers fall apart just because they lost Favre you are a fool.

Our #2 WR could be a lot of teams #1, and our #3 could be a lot of teams #2. Look at the highlights last year, the RECIEVERS made the big plays for Favre, not the other way around. If not for Favre we might've won the NFC Championship game, he was more to blame for that loss than anyone else. And yes, I know you'll argue Harris, the fact is DD made the first TD, and Favre looked pretty average to sub-par that game.

Next, our guards are all in their 3rd and 2nd year, we don't even know what they are capable of yet. Players don't just get drafted and become studs, they must develop.

Our Tackles are just 1 year older, and were of a very high caliber last year. Same goes for our CB's(I hear most of you scoffing and calling them old men.)

We have a lot of YOUNG depth at the RB spot, again, needs to develop.

The fact is the Packers went 13-3 with the youngest team in the league with one of the oldest and greatest QB's of all time. Favre, by no means, carried the Packers on his back, we saw a young team really develop last year. I for one am very excited about the future of this young team.

I thought you were a more knowledgeable poster than this JH. Maybe you've just bought in to too much media hype over Favre, or maybe you're still bitter about the almost trip to the Superbowl.

You need to give a lot more credit to the Packers and a little less to the Brett Favre of last year.


Man, you must have some out of sight drugs that your using. Best escape from reality I've seen in quite a while. Fave lost the NFC championship game?

I say this with the greatest amount of respect and love from one Pack fan to another but- YOUR FULL OF SHIT! We lost because we :

COULD'NT RUN THE GOD-DAMN FOOTBALL!


Football 101 my friend......................

[RashanGary]

Ladies and gentlemen, don't feed the troll. JH doesn't believe a single thing he's saying here.

Bullshit.

Brett Favre, Ron Wolf.



Brett Favre's greatness speaks for itself. This is a game of playmakers and after Favre's retirement, the Packers don't have any.

Ron Wolf made big bold moves. Sure, the landscape of the NFL has changed after teams continually burried themselves trying to use UFA as a primary tool, but Ron Wolf did it 15 years ago and we all know that the one time it happened here is a better represenation of what to expect than a more broad look at the last 10 years. You, my friend, are trying to skew facts to fit your little homeristic reality. The Packers are, in fact, screwed. Brett Favre, Ron Wolf. Screwed.

[Lurker64]

The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league.

Right away you give away the fact that you are either kidding/engaging in parody or don't know a damn thing about football.

[RashanGary]

hahahaha. .. .. You're an idiot, Lurker. A true idiot. I tried to be a homer. I tried to keep it together but Favre retiring has pushed me over a cliff. I thought - you know what, if the Packers just keep making good decisiosn and they keep stacking good decisions on top of good decsisions that good things would eventually come. I thought if they avoid making costly mistakes by pressing and instead focus on taking advantage of opportunity as it arises that they might be able to do something truely special by fitting more talent under the cap than any other team.

You know what though? That is not reality. The reality is that this team sucks and Brett Favre was the only reason they won games. The reality is that they don't have an OL, a FB, one good safety let alone two, they have Popping and Chillar at LB. They have WR's created by Favre. They have aging OL and CB's. They traded away their best DT for a stupid draft pick that won't do anything this year. They got another 10 picks - whoopity do. I tried to be optimistic and think maybe they can bring 10 in and in the competitive environment of TC they could let teh cream rise to the top but you know what? None of that works. Ron Wolf made bold moves and Brett Favre is Brett Favre. Nuff said. How many SB's did we win in the last 30 years? 1, right? Doesn't it make sense to use what got us there as the only evidence of what to expect. Isn't that logical and reasonable? Sorry for calling you and idiot, but you are.

[RashanGary]

If you were to go shopping for a car, do you really think the best thing to do is keep an open mind and be a little patient, or do you think going out and getting what you want is best?

Just go to your favorite car dealership and buy what you want, right? Then you have the car you've always wanted.

You can sit and look in the paper day after day. You can wait until demand is down on certain model or certain time of year (like when people tend to be broke in December and January). But what good would that do. You're still driving the car you really don't like for a couple more months. Patience and value concious is for losers driving 99 Accords. They might be more prepared for a rich and secure retirement and they might have more real wealth accrued, but the mark of a real winner in life is not driving that 99 Accord any longer tahn you absolutely have to.

Brett Favre, Ron Wolf. Bold moves. Greatest ever. You get what you pay for. Value is not a real concept. What more can I say? What more do you have to hear?

[Lurker64]

The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league.


I'm just going to keep pointing to this. Next I will point to the Bears, the Vikings, the Chiefs, the Jets, the 49ers, the Falcons, the Titans, and probably 10-15 other teams that I don't really care to scout right now.

Go outside and take a walk if you honestly believe a damn thing you're saying. Think about something other than football for a while.

[MJZiggy]

If you were to go shopping for a car, do you really think the best thing to do is keep an open mind and be a little patient, or do you think going out and getting what you want is best?

Just go to your favorite car dealership and buy what you want, right? Then you have the car you've always wanted.

You can sit and look in the paper day after day. You can wait until demand is down on certain model or certain time of year (like when people tend to be broke in December and January). But what good would that do. You're still driving the car you really don't like for a couple more months. Patience and value concious is for losers driving 99 Accords. They might be more prepared for a rich and secure retirement and they might have more real wealth accrued, but the mark of a real winner in life is not driving that 99 Accord any longer tahn you absolutely have to.

Brett Favre, Ron Wolf. Bold moves. Greatest ever. You get what you pay for. Value is not a real concept. What more can I say? What more do you have to hear?

Careful which car you buy there, JH, a lot of those fancy ones tend to break down...and if you suggest again that Donald Driver and Greg Jennings are not phenomenal wide receivers, then you will have completely convinced me that you don't know squat.

[texaspackerbacker]

Justin, I've seen a lot of very good sensible posts from you, but you have suddenly and without warning, gone off the deep end here.

It's no disrespect at all to Brett Favre to acknowledge the quality of a helluva lot of other players.

Football is NOT a game of playmakers/superstars. It is a team game generally won by the team that is the most solid overall and makes the least mistakes. The Packers have ALL the pieces to be exactly that, with the possible exception of QB. If Rodgers can be adequate--not necessarily a big time playmaker, but just not a game changer in the wrong direction, the Packers should be right there with as good or better a record as last year--barring bad luck with injuries, etc.

[Zool]

I tried to keep it together but Favre retiring has pushed me over a cliff.

Well stop fucking holding on then. Just let go man. Save us all the trouble of actually thinking you might post something serious. These fake angry threads get really old.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I tried to keep it together but Favre retiring has pushed me over a cliff.

Well stop fucking holding on then. Just let go man. Save us all the trouble of actually thinking you might post something serious. These fake angry threads get really old.

Give him credit. He has both Tennessee PB and Texas PB going. Man, I love the South.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I tried to keep it together but Favre retiring has pushed me over a cliff.

Well stop fucking holding on then. Just let go man. Save us all the trouble of actually thinking you might post something serious. These fake angry threads get really old.

Give him credit. He has both Tennessee PB and Texas PB going. Man, I love the South.

you should, we still dominate college football

[Lurker64]

And not only did Favre carry the offense on his back, but he also carried teh ST's and defense on his back too. Without Favre's great example of acctually showing up for most of the minicamps and TC (while collecting his 10 millino dollar pay check and proving football is ususally really important to him), what do you thinkt he defense and STers would have done? Without Favre I don't think we have a leader or a hard worker on this team. They'll collapse when his leadership is void. Also, during the game, the defense and ST's would just fold if not for Favre standing there on the sidelines using the force to improve their play. ALSO, Favre single handedly willed an offense of misfits to play great so the defense wasn't as tired and the ST's was always in good position.

Also, there is no sensible person who, while sober and of sound mind and body, could honestly believe any of this. This is possibly the most laughable thing I have ever heard on the internet.

The guys on Defense and STs played hard because Favre was standing there watching them? Really?

[woodbuck27]

Ummm. . . . What are you talking about, Bretsky? The WR's on this team couldn't start for another team in the league. Without Brett Favre, they don't have a chance. The OL is probably the worst in the NFL. TT completely passed over the good guards in favor of the junk already on our roster. We're pretty much screwed. The Tackles are older. The TE position is Lee and some rookie. The backup RB position is junk. WE don't have a FB. If not for Favre last year, this offense is probably the worst in the NFL, but Favre willed the team to TD's and victories. He carried the team on his back. Without Favre, the offense will fall apart. Rodgers will be killed. The WR's will look pedestrian (what they really are without Favre). The TE's are just junk and the RB core after Grant is shit. We don't even have one NFL FB. Ted Thompson has'nt spent a penny. We're paying less for our roster than just about any team in the league. How do we even expect a 1st year starter to come close to the numbers Favre put up. Rodgers doens't know the offense and he can't read defenses. The whole thing is pretty much doomed.

Rodgers TD expectation should start at 12 (half of what the greatest ever does) and his yards expectation in year 1 should start at 1,500. There is just no way this offense moves anywhere without Favre. If the greatest ever is really just replacable, it sure makes me wonder about what the greatest ever means.

Is that reallly YOU JH?

[woodbuck27]

And not only did Favre carry the offense on his back, but he also carried teh ST's and defense on his back too. Without Favre's great example of acctually showing up for most of the minicamps and TC (while collecting his 10 millino dollar pay check and proving football is ususally really important to him), what do you thinkt he defense and STers would have done? Without Favre I don't think we have a leader or a hard worker on this team. They'll collapse when his leadership is void. Also, during the game, the defense and ST's would just fold if not for Favre standing there on the sidelines using the force to improve their play. ALSO, Favre single handedly willed an offense of misfits to play great so the defense wasn't as tired and the ST's was always in good position.

Also, there is no sensible person who, while sober and of sound mind and body, could honestly believe any of this. This is possibly the most laughable thing I have ever heard on the internet.

The guys on Defense and STs played hard because Favre was standing there watching them? Really?

Favre's mystical, a Legend and a Sage who's mere thoughts inspire positive results. We are doomed without his uncommon leadership. jk :)

Why won't he come back to Wisconsin?

I actually had a dream last night of the first TD pass of next season going to Donald Driver. I looked back to the line of scrimmage and there stood jumping in the air not Favre but AARON RODGERS.

I suddenly awoke staring at the ceiling.Damn it. . . Favre's gone.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

I'm the fella that voted 11-15 TD's and that's a stretch. I don't see Aaron Rodgers playing all 16 games in 2008.

We're all about to really see just how tough Favre really was/is as an NFL QB.

I hope I'm wrong and Aaron does prove to be durable but nothing I've seen of him to date supports that prediction. If praying for him brings good karma at least I can pray.

This season will be very interesting. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

[RashanGary]

WOODBUCK :glug:



LURKER :bs:

[3irty1]

Favre said this is the most talented roster he's ever played with. Are you calling Brett Favre a liar?

Nah but really even if you were right, McCarthy is still the most important guy in the stadium and he's got enough to win games. Plus Arod has some ability as shown in the Dallas game where he out preformed Favre in a big game.

The WR are clearly an area of strength and if anything I would say that they are underrated however I will agree with you that Favre did make the OL look good in pass protection. We had the benefit of the fastest release in the league and a legend at the controls of the offense to make quick decisions. But I think the OL made great strides last year and should continue to get better this year while playing together.

Probably the most outrageous thing you said is that Favre carried the defense and special teams by example of hard work and his unbelievable leadership. Brett Favre was a lot of things but for the majority of the career I'm not sure hard working was one of them. In recent years he's stepped up and done his homework and become more of a student of the game than he ever was before. The hard workers on our team are the guys like Donald Driver, Aaron Kampman, and Al Harris. They all became physical specimens thanks to hard work and molded themselves into what they are thanks to perfecting their respective crafts and leaving everything on the field week in and week out. Don't tell me we don't have any leaders.

[Bretsky]

It's good that JH has finally realized that Ron Wolf is the king of kings :wink:

[red]

when i looked at the numbers i looked at 16 being 1 td a game. which is very doable for a full time starter.

theres a lot of shuffling of qb's in the nfl these days. the number of full time undisputed starters isn't that high. so you end up with a lot of qb's sharing time

we have been told that this is a-rods show. this won't be qb by committee team this year

but, like woodbuck said, it all depends on if he can stay healthy.

but the way i look at it is, you have to assume he'll play the whole year. you're never going to be able to figure out all the injuries that will happen in a season before the season starts

so figure 1-2 td's per game for a whole season. so somewhere in the low 20's maybe

[texaspackerbacker]

You mean all that JH crap was just sarcasm? Uh OK. That's pretty weird, though. What was the point of it?

[MJZiggy]

No, I'm thinking this is JH's new version of pot-stirring. During the season he said he wanted Favre to retire so we could see what Rodgers can do.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Give him credit. He has both Tennessee PB and Texas PB going. Man, I love the South.

you should, we still dominate college football

I do love the South, but it's pretty funny that you were the two guys that didn't get the sarcasm.