Broken Government

[Kiwon]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-21-bush-farmbill_N.htm

$290,000,000,000 farm bill

President Bush vetos it saying, ""At a time when net farm income is projected to increase by more than $28 billion in 1 year, the American taxpayer should not be forced to subsidize that group of farmers who have adjusted gross incomes of up to $1.5 million."

Congress will override the veto.

"The legislation includes election-year subsidies for farmers and food stamps for the poor — spending that lawmakers could promote when they are back in their districts over the Memorial Day weekend."
.............................

"About two-thirds of the bill would pay for nutrition programs such as food stamps; about $40 billion is for farm subsidies; and additional $30 billion would go to farmers to idle their land and to other environmental programs."

66% of $290,000,000,000 goes to Food stamps and other government nutrition programs! What's that have to do with farming?
..................................

"The bill would make small cuts to direct payments, which are distributed to some farmers no matter how much they grow. It also would eliminate some payments to individuals with more than $750,000 in annual farm income — or married farmers who make more than $1.5 million. Previously, negotiators were considering a $950,000 income cap for individuals on farm income."

Grow anything and you are instantly a farmer. Single farmers making $749,999 or less and married farmers making $1,499,000 or less get direct payments. Lunacy.
...................................

The farm bill also would:

•Boost nutrition programs, including food stamps and emergency domestic food aid, by more than $10 billion over 10 years. It would expand a program to provide fresh fruits and vegetables to schoolchildren.

• Increase subsidies for certain crops, including fruits and vegetables excluded from previous farm bills.

• Extend and expand dairy programs.

• Increase loan rates for sugar producers.

• Urge the government to buy surplus sugar and sell it to ethanol producers for use in a mixture with corn.

• Cut a per-gallon ethanol tax credit for refiners from 51 cents to 45 cents. The credit supports the blending of fuel with the corn-based additive. More money would go to cellulosic ethanol, made from plant matter.

• Require that meats and other fresh foods carry labels with their country of origin.

• Stop allowing farmers to collect subsidies for multiple farm businesses. :)

• Reopen a major discrimination case against the Agriculture Department. Thousands of black farmers who missed a deadline would get a chance to file claims alleging they were denied loans or other subsidies.

Bingo....Here's the jackpot.....Government subsidies.....I guess the U.S. Postal Service deliberately did not deliver Ag. Dept. mailings to certain mailboxes (if you know what I mean 8-) ). Everyone is a victim. Racism is everywhere.

• Provide the first-ever infusion of federal farm dollars — more than $400 million — to clean up the Chesapeake Bay.

• Pay farmers for weather-related farm losses from a new $3.8 billion disaster relief fund.
.........................................

Thank you, Democrats and unprincipled Republicans.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

• Reopen a major discrimination case against the Agriculture Department. Thousands of black farmers who missed a deadline would get a chance to file claims alleging they were denied loans or other subsidies.

Bingo....Here's the jackpot.....Government subsidies.....I guess the U.S. Postal Service deliberately did not deliver Ag. Dept. mailings to certain mailboxes (if you know what I mean 8-) ). Everyone is a victim. Racism is everywhere.

[/b]

Posters might take you seriously if you actually knew what you were posting about.

The discrimination case and your post has nothing to do with the Ag dept mailing anything.

You don't know shit about the pigford case.

The discrimination case..which btw, the Ag dept settled (that is what you do when you are guilty) in 99. But, many claims had been denied after that.

ANd, you certainly dont' kick out GOVERNMENT AUDITORS if you have nothing to hide. THat happened last week.

Black farmers who could show even minimal evidence of discriminatory treatment at the hands of Agriculture between 1981 and 1996 would be entitled to a cash payment of $50,000, debt forgiveness (and potentially more money is specific instances), etc.

The Department was hardly aggressive in processing discrimination claims. After extensions of deadlines due to insufficient notice to black farmers, 81,000 out of 94,000 black farmers filing for restitution were rejected.

THen the GOVERNMENT/Courts ordered an extension eligibility, nearly 66,000 farmers were reviewed, but only 2,131 assisted. Not only have black farmers received little of the estimated $3 to 4 billion value of the settlement, but patterns of insufficient support to minority farmers appear to continue.

THE SENATE then voted in December to re-open the Pigford case, allowing those who missed the filing deadline to reapply for compensation.

19,000 others had been rejected for missing a filing deadline...that is fucking significant.

[digitaldean]

[quote="Kiwon"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-21-bush-farmbill_N.htm

"....additional $30 billion would go to farmers to idle their land and to other environmental programs."

.................................

"The bill would make small cuts to direct payments, which are distributed to some farmers no matter how much they grow. It also would eliminate some payments to individuals with more than $750,000 in annual farm income — or married farmers who make more than $1.5 million. Previously, negotiators were considering a $950,000 income cap for individuals on farm income."

• Urge the government to buy surplus sugar and sell it to ethanol producers for use in a mixture with corn.

• Cut a per-gallon ethanol tax credit for refiners from 51 cents to 45 cents. The credit supports the blending of fuel with the corn-based additive. More money would go to cellulosic ethanol, made from plant matter.

.........................................

Here's what I disliked about the bill:
1.) Pres. Bush wanted to lower the adjusted income cap to $500,000 instead of the $750,000 in the bill.
2.) I grew up on a farm. I NEVER understood why our gov't pays farmers for doing NOTHING when we could be using that land to raise crops that could be used worldwide. If you have to still pay to leave land idle, then cut the rate of payment to 10% of what it is now. But offer an alternative of selling the grain to the gov't at current market value to dispense to other countries in Africa, Asia, etc. It's the best kind of foreign aid, saves lives and allows farmers an honest living.
3.) Cut the subsidies for dairy and other crops. It totally goes against the free market philosophy other industries have to follow.

All comes down to more pandering for the agri-business giants and their lobbyists.

I am not familiar with the discrimination case mentioned, so I won't comment on that.

Both parties again blowing a perfect chance to tighten the federal purse instead of trying to buy votes like they usually do.

And we wonder why we have such friggin' huge deficits!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Both parties again blowing a perfect chance to tighten the federal purse instead of trying to buy votes like they usually do.

Agreed.

[Freak Out]

The good in a bill like that is so far outweighed by the bad in it its just flat out embarrassing.

[texaspackerbacker]

They put enough pork in these farm bills, along with enough programs legitimately promoted either by one party or the other, that they get massive support. Making sure the lifestyle of the American farmer stays at high level is a conservative pro-American Republican position. School lunch programs, environmental crap, etc. are things the Dem/libs have a taste for. And with all that, restraint on spending goes out the window.

I differ from a lot of conservatives on this in that I do NOT oppose the heavy duty spending, even if it results in deficits. The money, after all, is injected into our own economy, for the most part, and benefits a helluva a lot of people beyond merely those receiving the subsidies and other payouts, due to the multiplier effect--Money injected (or left in people's hands through tax cuts) is spent. It becomes somebody else's income. That money is in turn spent, becoming somebody else's income--a repeating cycle. And all that additional income gets taxed, generally resulting in more revenue for the government that the original spending programs or tax cuts.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think ethanol is a gigantic boondoggle, a national scandal.

I notice the WI papers have been flooded with a constant stream of suspiciously well-written letters arguing that ethanol actually makes sense, calm down and give it time. I expect this is an organized campaign by agribusiness.

John McCain has spoken-out against farm subsidies, and has opposed ethanol. I like that a lot, takes guts. (I don't know, but probably he has also done some flip-flopping and hedging with votes, but I still give him an A for effort. Almost every politician has completely caved.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

Making sure the lifestyle of the American farmer stays at high level is a conservative pro-American Republican position.

What a pile of horse manure. The overwhelming share of farm subsidies go to large corporations.

I wouldn't be for subsidizing family farms even if that's where the money was going. Farms are like any other business. I very much believe in goverment spending to help people better themselves, but not to help people continue in unprofitable enterprises.

[Kiwon]

Yeah, like I said, "Broken Government."

Congressional leaders were in such a hurry to spend our money that they forgot to send the whole, complete bill to the President. What he vetoed and the House overrode is technically a different piece of legislation from the one they want to make law.

Guess what, they probably will have to do the whole thing over again.

Keystone cops.

It would be nice if some "Blue-Dog" Democrats and fiscally conservative Republicans grew a backbone overnight and oppose some of this wasteful spending. Good Lord, no spending bill should ever total $290,000,000,000.

I promise you that most of these jerkoffs have not read the complete bill and don't know half of what's in it. They just know that it creates subsidies for their constituents and helps get them reelected in 6 months.

It's our money and fiscal security that they are playing a shell game with. One day China is going to demand payment on their bonds and then "America's chickens will (really) come home to roost."
.................................................. .......................

Glitch Stalls Farm Bill After House Overrides Bush Veto

WASHINGTON — The House overwhelmingly rejected George W. Bush's veto Wednesday of a $290 billion farm bill, but what should have been a stinging defeat for the president became an embarrassing episode for Democrats.

Only hours before the House's 316-108 vote, Bush had vetoed the five-year measure, saying it was too expensive and gave too much money to wealthy farmers when farm incomes are high. The Senate then was expected to follow suit quickly.

Action stalled, however, after the discovery that Congress had omitted a 34-page section of the bill when lawmakers sent the massive measure to the White House. That means Bush vetoed a different bill from the one Congress pass, leaving leaders scrambling to figure out whether it could become law.

Democrats hoped to pass the entire bill, again, on Thursday under expedited rules usually reserved for unopposed legislation. Lawmakers also probably will have to pass an extension of current farm law, which expires Friday.

"We will have to repass the whole thing, as will the Senate," said Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y. "We can't let the farm bill just die."

The glitch also forced Democrats Wednesday to jerk their election-year fiscal blueprint from the House floor. The nonbinding budget plan has already been delayed by more than a month."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356921,00.html

[Merlin]

Someone forwarded this to me last week:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

If even a small bit of it is true, it's time to re-read the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence again:

http://www.wfu.edu/~zulick/340/Declaration.html

RE-ELECT NO ONE!

No Senator should ever be elected to more then two terms (12 years). Three on the outside and even then you are spanning a generation. Here is a list of the Senators that should NOT be re-elected when they are up for election:

Robert Byrd 49 Years - D
Edward Kennedy 46 Years - D
Daniel Inouye 45 Years - D
Pete Domenici 35 Years - R
Joseph Biden - 35 Years - D
Patrick Leahy - 33 Years - D
Richard Lugar - 31 Years - R
Orrin Hatch - 31 Years - D
Max Baucus - 30 Years - D
Thad Cochran - 30 Years - R
John Warner - 29 Years - R
Carl Levin - 29 Years - D
Chris Dodd - 27 Years - D
Chuck Grassley - 27 Years - R
Arlen Spector - 27 years - R
Jeff Bingaman - 25 years - D
John Kerry - 23 years - D
Tom Harkin - 23 years - D
Mitch McConnell - 23 years - R
Jay Rockefeller - 23 years - D
Barbara Mikulski - 31 combined years - D
Richard Shelby - 29 combined years - R
John McCain - 25 combined years - R
Harry Reid - 25 combined years - D
Kit Bond - 21 years - R
Kent Conrad - 21 years - D
Herb Kohl - 19 years - D
Joe Lieberman - 19 years - D
Daniel Akaka - 18 years - D
Larry Craig - 17 years - R
Dianne Feinstein - 16 years - D
Byron Dorgan - 16 years - D
Barbara Boxer - 25 combined years - D
Judd Gregg - 25 combined years - R
Russ Feingold - 15 years - D
Patty Murray - 15 years - D
Bob Bennett - 15 years - R
Kay Bailey Hutchison - 15 years - R
Jim Inhofe - 14 years - R
Olympia Snowe - 29 combined years - R
Jon Kyl - 21 combined years - R

Second Term Ending(12th year):
Ron Wyden - D
Sam Brownback - R

Last Year of Second term (11th Year)
Pat Roberts - R
Richard Durbin - D
Tim Johnson - D
Wayne Allard - R
Jack Reed - D
Mary Landrieu - D
Jeff Sessions - D
Gordon Smith - R
Chuck Hagel[6] - D
Susan Collins - D
Mike Enzi - R

Those who are in their second term:
Chuck Schumer - D
Jim Bunning - R
Mike Crapo - R
Blanche Lincoln - D
George Voinovich - R
Evan Bayh - D
Bill Nelson - D
Tom Carper - D
Debbie Stabenow - D
John Ensign - R
Maria Cantwell - D
Ben Nelson - D
Hillary Clinton - D

AND WE WONDER WHY THINGS ARE SO F'D UP? It isn't Bush my friends, it's these morons in the Congress that are so out of touch with Americans it isn't even funny. The House of Representatives, our very own DAVE OBEY has been there for 39 years! These people are up for re-election every two years and no one could knock this idiot out???? How many of these 435 Representatives have been there forever?????

[The Leaper]

I agree 100% with Merlin. The time for term limits is now. Without fresh blood on a regular basis, Washington is a special interest nightmare.

[Kiwon]

Term limits is a good idea, especially after looking at that Senate list. It reads like a rogues gallery. "Senator" seems to practically be almost a lifetime position as incumbents have significant advantages over challengers.

The Class of 1994 pushed hard for term limits but, as I recall, the judiciary kept getting the way declaring it unconstitutional.

These guys won't reform themselves. Even the good ones get to Washington and lose their way as they get caught up in the Beltway culture. Voters are the only ones who can change things by voting folks out.

Make that voters and age. A few on the list are retiring, and like Kennedy, health problems are catching up with several of the older ones. We desperately need new blood in there that will at least idealistically challenge the system.

[digitaldean]

Hey, I'm all for term limits.

But how do you propose to get it through Congress?

I doubt you will get much support since it's handing them the proverbial pink slip.

If anyone has a way to get around these shysters, I'm all ears.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree 100% with Merlin. The time for term limits is now. Without fresh blood on a regular basis, Washington is a special interest nightmare.

I've soured on the term limit idea. Too many unintended consequences. Like the rise in power of the permanent Fed employees, the civil service. And I think there is a learning curve, congress people are most effective after 10 years under their belt. Maybe a 20 year term limit could work.

The real problem is the amount of money they have to raise to run for office. They are permanent fund raisers.

[The Leaper]

I've soured on the term limit idea. Too many unintended consequences. Like the rise in power of the permanent Fed employees, the civil service.

I'd rather have those people have more power than the career politicians.


And I think there is a learning curve, congress people are most effective after 10 years under their belt. Maybe a 20 year term limit could work.

No learning curve...just more easily greased pockets.

C'mon Harlan...being a Congressman is not rocket science. Anyone with a reasonable degree of intelligence could do it. Sure, it probably takes them a year or two to get fully adjusted...like any job. The only reason is seems like it takes 10 years to become effective in Washington is precisely because of the career politicians who hog all the clout. Clear out some of those 20, 30 and 40 year vets, and the newbies suddenly will have more ability to contribute.


The real problem is the amount of money they have to raise to run for office. They are permanent fund raisers.

Again...the money is directly a result of the fact we have numerous career politicians rather than representatives serving their fellow constituents. The Founding Fathers were rather clear in their desire that Congress should not be filled with "career politicians". In fact, the reason we became a nation was due to "career politicians"...namely the monarchy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

C'mon Harlan...being a Congressman is not rocket science. Anyone with a reasonable degree of intelligence could do it.
Sure, in one sense all they have to do is vote "nay" or "yay". but look at he range of issues they are supposed to be knowlegeable about! If they are any good at all, they are learning at a very high rate. When you listen to the best politicians speak, its clear they have a lot of knowledge.

I think first-term politicians are handicapped, they don't know how things really work.

I am not completely opposed to term limits. I just think they need to be much longer than you probably do. 10 years is too short.

[Freak Out]

It's called voting people. If Americans would get off their ass and dig through half the shit that's thrown at them we could actually see some change. Not likely to happen though.

[The Leaper]

I am not completely opposed to term limits. I just think they need to be much longer than you probably do. 10 years is too short.

I would favor 3 terms for Senators and 4 for Reps. I think anything over 20 years...it is time to shit or get off the pot.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some people nagged me to hear about things where I disagree with most conservatives/Republicans. Well, read on.

I am neither strongly for or strongly against this farm bill. As I said, it has stuff for all sides of the spectrum to like and to dislike. Harlan, no argument about much of the farm subsidies going to wealthy farmers and agribusiness. I'm just saying those are generally OUR--meaning conservative/Republican--constituencies. I'm sure plenty of liberal constituencies are well taken care of in the bill too. That's how Congress does business--for better or worse.

The area where I disagree with many conservatives is that I don't see it as all that bad. As I said in my previous post, due to the Keynesian multiplier effect, money injected into the American economy generally benefits everybody, even if the spending could realistically be called wasteful. That is true and works every time, just so you don't STUPIDLY raise taxes to "pay for" the spending.

As for term limits, there too, I strongly disagree with the mostly conservative people who favor that idea. There's a fairly even split in Congress between the longstanding conservative/Republican politicians and the Dem/lib politicians. What term limits would do is place more power in the hands of the propagandists--predominantly, the left-saturated mainstream media. I'd rather have to put up with some liberal oldtimer who manipulates the American system--which necessarily implies he has at least limited belief in the American system, than in some upstart "change" advocate who shows every sign of hating the American system, and indeed, hating America. It's the Hillary/Obama question all over again.

[Kiwon]

Told you so.

Just show up and collect $50,000. That's an overstatement, but not by much.

"The enacted bill permits plaintiffs to seek expedited claims of $50,000 under a lower threshold of proof than a typical civil case."

Alleged past discrimination by local USDA offices is good for $50,000 or more. This is just another step in priming the pump for complete reparations.

20% of America's GNP goes toward welfare programs already, some $3,100,000,000,000 a year, and half the population pays no federal income tax at all.

What's fair about that?

.................................................. ....................

Black farmers file new suit against USDA

WASHINGTON (AP) — More than 800 black farmers filed a new lawsuit against the Agriculture Department just two weeks after Congress reopened a 1999 settlement over past discrimination.

The plaintiffs wasted little time in taking advantage of a provision in the recently enacted farm bill that allows fresh claims from those who were denied damages after missing earlier deadlines.

Some 75,000 people could fall into that group. If their suits are successful, the case could cost the government several billion dollars on top of the $980 million in damages already paid under the original settlement.

The lawsuit, organized by the Virginia-based National Black Farmers Association, was filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Washington. Nearly all the 823 farmers who sued are from the South, mostly from Alabama and Mississippi.

John Boyd, a black farmer who founded the group, said he expects another 5,000 to join the lawsuit soon.

The suit is the latest development in the federal government's April 1999 settlement of a class-action lawsuit from black farmers who claimed they were systematically denied loans and other aid from local USDA offices. About two-thirds of the nearly 22,500 farmers who filed suit were awarded damages.

Those who filed late argued that their lawyers made mistakes or that they were not aware of the deadline.

The deadline was extended once for those who could show extraordinary circumstances. But federal courts repeatedly denied subsequent requests to reopen the settlement until Congress intervened with the farm bill.

The enacted bill permits plaintiffs to seek expedited claims of $50,000 under a lower threshold of proof than a typical civil case. Plaintiffs also can seek larger damages in court.

The USDA and the Justice Department declined to comment on the lawsuit.

Critics have charged that farmers had plenty of time to win claims and that reopening the case will reward questionable claimants who may not have suffered losses.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-06-04-black-farmers_N.htm

[bobblehead]

I agree 100% with Merlin. The time for term limits is now. Without fresh blood on a regular basis, Washington is a special interest nightmare.

I've soured on the term limit idea. Too many unintended consequences. Like the rise in power of the permanent Fed employees, the civil service. And I think there is a learning curve, congress people are most effective after 10 years under their belt. Maybe a 20 year term limit could work.

The real problem is the amount of money they have to raise to run for office. They are permanent fund raisers.

Gotta say harlan, I thinky your definition of "effective" is one even bill clinton would be proud of. I would like congress to come to a standstill, cuz the more they stay out of the way, the better off we are.

I am also in favor of removing all campaign finance rules, but insert complete full disclosure online. I want to know who donated money to who, and I would argue its my right. I also think some of these pigs have been on the public dole way too long to even realize what life is like for the average american anymore.