Most improved

[HarveyWallbangers]

According to Rock, it's Aaron Rouse, Allen Barbre, Brandon Jackson, Desmond Bishop, and James Jones.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/PKR01/80522146/1058


The improve-from-within philosophy Ted Thompson embraces as Green Bay Packers general manager relies on young players’ ability to develop quickly and take on prominent roles.

So, it has to be considered a good sign for the Packers that, among roughly 60 players who reported for the offseason strength and conditioning program in March, the five who have shown the most improvement hail from the 2007 draft class: Brandon Jackson, James Jones, Aaron Rouse, Allen Barbre and Desmond Bishop.

“Those five guys have really, really done a great job this offseason,” strength and conditioning coach Rock Gullickson said this week. “You can see their confidence just is growing. You can see that they feel like they’re filling into the veteran role and taking the challenge to improve. A lot of times, that’s difficult, because the vets kind of watch out for each other a little bit. But of all the guys, those five guys really stick out as guys you’d have to consider for most improved.”

...

According to Gullickson, each member of the improved fivesome — Jackson, Jones, Rouse, Barbre and Bishop — stands out in all five categories like “they’re a different guy than they were previously.”

...

All that’s without mentioning the Packers’ top draft pick in 2007, defensive tackle Justin Harrell, who injured a disc in his back while lifting weights last month and won’t be cleared for contact until training camp. With Corey Williams’ departure via trade and Jolly recovering from shoulder surgery, coaches remain hopeful Harrell can take on a prominent role.

“You look at him, you think, ‘Wow — what could we mold him into?’” Gullickson said of Harrell, who started three games late last season. “The setback is something that, we’ll have to start kind of back at square one. But he’s going to be fine, and I know he’s itching to get started.”

[Joemailman]

The Rouse/Collins and Barbre/Colledge battles will probably be the 2 best in training camp. The release of K-Rob should also help Jones, whose development was slowed last year when K-Rob joined the team.

[Guiness]

What about Bishop though? I wonder if he'll push Poppinga and Chillar?

BJack is interesting too. With the Grant's position, and BJack apparently much improved...

[Tony Oday]

It seems like we have guys that WANT to play...I know that sounds dumb in pro sports but this has the feeling of a H.S. team where you WANT to be on the Varsity squad :)

[texaspackerbacker]

I really like Desmond Bishop. It would be nice if they could cross train him as a strong side OLB.

Jackson IMO has no chance to beat out Grant, but as good as he was when healthy last year, if he improves from that, we have a helluva one/two punch.

I think Jones just kinda wore out last season. That shouldn't happen this year. I could see him doing what Jennings did in his second season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I really like Desmond Bishop. It would be nice if they could cross train him as a strong side OLB.

Jackson IMO has no chance to beat out Grant, but as good as he was when healthy last year, if he improves from that, we have a helluva one/two punch.

I think Jones just kinda wore out last season. That shouldn't happen this year. I could see him doing what Jennings did in his second season.

Jones doesn't have the talent of Jennings. Just not fast enough. Jennings ran 4.4 and looks fast in pads. Jones looks like he runs closer to 4.6.

This was the most improved in the workout room. It wasn't McCarthy that said. It was the trainer.

[twoseven]

Jackson IMO has no chance to beat out Grant, but as good as he was when healthy last year, if he improves from that, we have a helluva one/two punch.
IMO, Brandon Jackson = Tony Fisher..the other half of our one-two punch is still TBD. Grant is not a power/workhorse back, we still need a hammer that can tote the rock with regular success on short yardage and can compliment Grant's elusive (with some power) style.

[cpk1994]

The Rouse/Collins and Barbre/Colledge battles will probably be the 2 best in training camp. The release of K-Rob should also help Jones, whose development was slowed last year when K-Rob joined the team.I disagree with K-Rob slowing Jones' development. K-Rob was nothing more than a 5th reciever and a KR. The only one slowing down Jones development was Jones himself.

[DonHutson]

Names conspicuously absent from that list:

Darryn Colledge -if anyone needed to "remake" himself in the weight room it was him. The fact that Barbre is on the list does not bode well for Mr. Colledge.

DeShawn Wynn - weight lifting 'cramping' your style? Take some Midol and get in the gym.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Darryn Colledge -if anyone needed to "remake" himself in the weight room it was him. The fact that Barbre is on the list does not bode well for Mr. Colledge.

To be fair, Colledge seems to know his weakness and he says he worked hard in the weight room this offseason.


Colledge hopes the off-season work in the weight room will help him well into training camp.

"I felt like I worked harder in the weight room this year. I felt like I got stronger," said Colledge. "The last two years, you're just so worried about what you're doing and learning and scheme. This year I felt like I didn't need that. I know the plays. I know what we're doing. I felt like what I needed was to get stronger and to get faster."

[DonHutson]

To be fair, Colledge seems to know his weakness and he says he worked hard in the weight room this offseason.

Or should we take this as a bad sign, that Colledge thinks he did the work and the coach doesn't?

If I really want to be fair I could acknowledge that just because Colledge wasn't singled out for praise doesn't mean he was slacking off. But I don't want to be fair. The guy has talent, and loads of athleticism. If he could ever combine that with decent strength he could be really good.

Barbre is always singled out for his athleticism AND his attitude. If he's adding the strength that Colledge isn't then he'll catch up fast. If they're equal in athleticism, and Barbe has an edge in strength and toughness, then Colledge's edge in experience won't hold up too much longer.

[Guiness]

Or should we take this as a bad sign, that Colledge thinks he did the work and the coach doesn't?


Ouch - hadn't thought of that, but I should've. I've coached kids like that, that think they're playing lights out all the time, but are at best pedestrian.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Or should we take this as a bad sign, that Colledge thinks he did the work and the coach doesn't?

If I really want to be fair I could acknowledge that just because Colledge wasn't singled out for praise doesn't mean he was slacking off. But I don't want to be fair.

You said it in your second statement. Kind of odd that all of the guys singled out were second year players. I don't know how the question to Rock was posed. Also, maybe they had farther to go in their training. Like you said, it doesn't mean Colledge was slacking. I don't know that he's gotten stronger, but his words seem to indicate he realized what he needed to do and worked harder at it.

Should be an interesting battle. I hope both guys have improved a lot. Solidifying that spot on the OL would be huge. Having talented, young players competing at that spot could produce surprising results. Maybe after his first year, Colledge thought he was on his way as a rookie starter and didn't realize he had to work even harder his second year. Having a guy like Barbre breathing down his neck could have provided him with the necessary motivation to work harder.

This is a big year for Colledge. Either he gets it done in his third year or he's probably going to be the backup at LT. By the time Clifton retires, Colledge could be elsewhere.

[bobblehead]

I still think college will ultimately be a tackle due to size and athleticism and lack of nastiness.

BJack I never thought speed or strength were the problem, but the instincts that a running back either has or doesn't. I'm worried about him, but they drafted him I THINK to be a third down guy, not a runner and he has shown soft hands and instinct there. If he picks up the blitz well, he will fill that role just fine.

The guys I'm highest on coming into the season is rouse (cuz we need him to emerge) due to his good instincts last year, and secondly jones cuz he too seems to have the things you can't teach. You can bring a guy from a 4.6 to a 4.45 with hard work, you can't teach him to catch the ball the way he does (as long as he holds onto it). He also instinctively shields the defender from the ball with his body (much like Jordan seems to).

I'm hoping Grant is being reasonable and something will get done, cuz if he does I really think the offense will go as far as Rogers takes them.

[b bulldog]

Rouse will be the starter this year and maybe Collins,Poppinga, and a late round pick goes to Miami for Taylor.

[motife]

Rouse will be the starter this year and maybe Collins,Poppinga, and a late round pick goes to Miami for Taylor.

They should try Collins at corner before they trade him.

[motife]

Q: David Wheaton of Lake Minnetonka - A year ago, not too many people would have said "Atari Bigby" had they been asked to name who the 2007 Most Improved Packer would be. Him even becoming a starter was not likely. *Anyway, who are your candidates to be the Packers 2008 Most Improved Player? *Also, who would you say is the most important as far as needing to improve? I'd have to say Colledge for being the most crucial.

A: Greg Bedard - 1) Allen Barbre. 2) Without question, the combination of Spitz, Colledge, Barbre and Coston. Those guys need to step up. Like yesterday.

[oregonpackfan]

Jones doesn't have the talent of Jennings. Just not fast enough. Jennings ran 4.4 and looks fast in pads. Jones looks like he runs closer to 4.6.

This was the most improved in the workout room. It wasn't McCarthy that said. It was the trainer.[/quote]

Though Jones does not have blinding speed, I still think he can be a valuable receiver for the Packers.

I really like the way he catches the ball with is hands rather than just trying to cradle it. He can become a valuable "Possession receiver" for the Packers, IMO.

[Gunakor]

Though Jones does not have blinding speed, I still think he can be a valuable receiver for the Packers.

I really like the way he catches the ball with is hands rather than just trying to cradle it. He can become a valuable "Possession receiver" for the Packers, IMO.


Jones is going to be the very best #4 WR in the NFL this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Though Jones does not have blinding speed, I still think he can be a valuable receiver for the Packers.

I really like the way he catches the ball with is hands rather than just trying to cradle it. He can become a valuable "Possession receiver" for the Packers, IMO.

No question, he can. Jennings has a chance to be a Pro Bowl receiver though. I don't think Jones has that potential.

[bobblehead]

Though Jones does not have blinding speed, I still think he can be a valuable receiver for the Packers.

I really like the way he catches the ball with is hands rather than just trying to cradle it. He can become a valuable "Possession receiver" for the Packers, IMO.

No question, he can. Jennings has a chance to be a Pro Bowl receiver though. I don't think Jones has that potential.

Cliff christl said the same thing about jennings his entire rookie season...the part about being a valuable possession guy and not having the potential to be a probowler.....then CC retired.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cliff christl said the same thing about jennings his entire rookie season...the part about being a valuable possession guy and not having the potential to be a probowler.....then CC retired.

Uncle Cliffy and I disagreed on Jennings. Some threads that were going around at this time last year.


http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7648&highlight=jennings+driver+possession+receiver

I think Driver is more than a possession receiver though, and I think Jennings has the potential to be a complete receiver like Driver.


http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7189&highlight=jennings+driver+jones

Jennings was on pace for nearly 1200 yards and 9 TDs in his first 6 games last year... before the ankle injury. I think he's going to do very well.

This isn't too point out that I was right--because I've been wrong a lot. Just pointing out that I thought Jennings would be really good after his rookie year. I don't like Jones nearly as much--although he's a good 3rd receiver and there's nothing wrong with that.

Funny that ESPN ranked our receiving corps 28th best in the NFL last August.
:D

[The Leaper]

They should try Collins at corner before they trade him.

The guy struggles to cover a TE. He sure as hell won't be able to cover a WR.

[RashanGary]

I think Collins is an excellent career nickle back with great potential on ST's (Gunner on punt coverage and they can find some place for a 210lb guy who runs 4.38 40 times on kick coverage).

No reason go get rid of him, but he didn't live up to the high expectations that some (myself included) thought he might. If you really think Peprah or Culver have more potential then I can see it, but to me Collins seems like a good player to have on yoru team (and he doesn't kill you if he has to start 4 or 5 games per season).

[CaliforniaCheez]

It happens every year when the rookies learn what it takes and dedicate themselves to it.

I hope Korey Hall was so good originally that that is the reason he is not mentioned.

[bobblehead]

Cliff christl said the same thing about jennings his entire rookie season...the part about being a valuable possession guy and not having the potential to be a probowler.....then CC retired.

Uncle Cliffy and I disagreed on Jennings. Some threads that were going around at this time last year.


http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7648&highlight=jennings+driver+possession+receiver

I think Driver is more than a possession receiver though, and I think Jennings has the potential to be a complete receiver like Driver.


http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=7189&highlight=jennings+driver+jones

Jennings was on pace for nearly 1200 yards and 9 TDs in his first 6 games last year... before the ankle injury. I think he's going to do very well.

This isn't too point out that I was right--because I've been wrong a lot. Just pointing out that I thought Jennings would be really good after his rookie year. I don't like Jones nearly as much--although he's a good 3rd receiver and there's nothing wrong with that.

Funny that ESPN ranked our receiving corps 28th best in the NFL last August.
:D
I actually agree with you in your assessment, but I was playing devils advocat in the hope that JJ emerges as a big time player this year.

For a guy who got paid to assess things cliffy seemed to not get it a lot of the time. JJ has a thick powerful body designed to be a possession guy in the NFL and possibly a redzone threat.....but I'm still hoping he increases his speed a bit more and becomes something beyond that.

[b bulldog]

Collins has no instinct at all and has hands of steel.

[Bretsky]

If Barbre was our most improved player that would be very key to our offense IMO; the guard play needs to get better.

On the defensive side I'll be cheering for Rouse and Harrell.

[BananaMan]

Jones' speed is fine. He burnt Champ Bailey vs. Denver last year, and then outran everyone for a touchdown.

You don't need much more speed then that.

[KYPack]

Q: David Wheaton of Lake Minnetonka - A year ago, not too many people would have said "Atari Bigby" had they been asked to name who the 2007 Most Improved Packer would be. Him even becoming a starter was not likely. *Anyway, who are your candidates to be the Packers 2008 Most Improved Player? *Also, who would you say is the most important as far as needing to improve? I'd have to say Colledge for being the most crucial.

A: Greg Bedard - 1) Allen Barbre. 2) Without question, the combination of Spitz, Colledge, Barbre and Coston. Those guys need to step up. Like yesterday.

You can quintuple that statement for me.

We gotta get two solid guards out of that bunch.

Harve, I gootta jump this one statement you made:

"I don't think Colledge was slacking. I don't know that he's gotten stronger, but his words seem to indicate he realized what he needed to do and worked harder at it. "

Last off-season, there were reports that Moll, Spitz and Colledge were hitting the weights like demons and would show great improvement in strength in the coming year. I heard it, but I sure as hell never saw it. all of 'em just showed the normal growth of a 1st year guy to a second yr.

This group has got to add strength and muscle mass, espec Colledge. They just aren't that strong and lack shove.

I don't think any of 'em worked that hard and only Spitz showed a lot of gain in level of play.

[bobblehead]

Jones' speed is fine. He burnt Champ Bailey vs. Denver last year, and then outran everyone for a touchdown.

You don't need much more speed then that.

I understand your point, but the bailey thing was a blown coverage, and any NFL reciever with a 3 yard lead will probably be fast enough to stay ahead in a straight line sprint. The speed differences are usually WAY overplayed. The difference between 4.4 and 4.6 is barely noticeable in most situations (which is why i'm sick of hearing about slow linebackers....its all about path to the ball)

where you will see a difference is on a pattern where a corner gives a clean release and doesn't pivot fast enough...a 4.4 guy will have about 2 extra feet over a 4.6 guy which seems irrelavent unless you are the QB trying to squeeze the ball in there. If you are throwing the ball, an extra 2 feet is a huge added bonus. Where Jones makes up is by being big and strong and once the ball is in the air he uses his body to shield the DB and make the catch...result is a catch and no YAC. Greg Jennings catches it full stride and might go all the way, thus a big play guy vs. a possession guy. Both have uses, Jones can catch that 4 yard slant on 3rd and 2 and it will be almost unstoppable where jennings probably can have it taken away.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm still picking Jones. People were saying a lot of negative stuff about Jennings a year ago too, and he came through. I think the slow 40 time was part of the reason we got Jones where we did. He seems to play faster than that, though. It's more a question of becoming thoroughly familiar with the offense--as Jennings did last year and I think Jones will this year.

I also expect big things from Justin Harrell. And if Aaron Rodgers solidifies his spot as starter, it's hard not to call him most improved.

[Tarlam!]

()People were saying a lot of negative stuff about Jennings a year ago too,

Not here, Tex. People 'round these parts have always held Jennings for the real deal. In fact, I can't recall a negative post about Jennings on here.

[Scott Campbell]

()People were saying a lot of negative stuff about Jennings a year ago too,

Not here, Tex. People 'round these parts have always held Jennings for the real deal. In fact, I can't recall a negative post about Jennings on here.


There were lots of questions in here about Jennings durability through the first 1/4 of this year. I'm still not sure they've been answered, but I sure hope so.

[MJZiggy]

Did he have any injuries at all this past season?

[Patler]

Did he have any injuries at all this past season?

Do you mean other than the first two games of the season when he wasn't even on the active game day roster??? :) :)

[MJZiggy]

That's what I'm asking!! I don't have Harvey's football memory, sorry!

[RashanGary]

Collins might not have mega interceptions, but he was voted as a probowl alternate by coaches, peers and I can't imagine too many fans.

Rouse did get two interceptions in short time, but he also got beat in the run game and pass game more in a couple games than Collins did all year. Collins name may not be called as often as Bigby's, but he rarely gets beat and that is a good quality for a safety to have. I'm not saying he's great, but the "Collins sucks" arguement seems no stronger than the Jennings is a china doll arguement of last year.

[Brohm]

I think the OL as a whole will take a jump forward. It's year 3 (+/- 1) for most of the young guys. Not sure who really but I have a feeling our ground game is going to crank it up this year.

[Brandon494]

Though Jones does not have blinding speed, I still think he can be a valuable receiver for the Packers.

I really like the way he catches the ball with is hands rather than just trying to cradle it. He can become a valuable "Possession receiver" for the Packers, IMO.


Jones is going to be the very best #4 WR in the NFL this year.

I would have to believe Jones will be the #3 WR at the start of the season.

[mission]

listen guys.. im all about it ... id love for jones to emerge. but jennings came on in such a "best case scenerio" that i have a hard time trying my lucky charms and thinking jones is going to match his progression. that might be the betting man ...

anyway, id love it, i really would. obviously, but that's asking a lot and honestly, if we can get 6 tds, 5 of them in the red zone, that'd be a huge season for us and jj... imo tbh and afaik etc al of that junk

[cpk1994]

()People were saying a lot of negative stuff about Jennings a year ago too,

Not here, Tex. People 'round these parts have always held Jennings for the real deal. In fact, I can't recall a negative post about Jennings on here.Have you already forgotten all the posts about TT being an idiot for taking Jennings over Chad Jackson? The posts that said Jennings wouldn't amount to much because he went to Western Michigan and didn't face any competition? Trust me, there were many negative posts about Jennings.

[Tarlam!]

My memory must be selective. I honestly can't remember us bagging Jennings.

[Zool]

Jennings was labeled as injury prone when he had to sit out the first 2 last year as well. People are very knee-jerk reactionary.

[cpk1994]

And to illustrate my last post:

Bretsky on drafting Jennings:

Then we probably reached for a small school WR who may contribute, but gosh, just doesn't seem that NFL ready when a guy like Demetrius Williams was available.


Not that this counts but forum favorite tank on Jennings:



2 Jenning WR
Two words: Chad Jackson. Two more words: fuck up. All Thompson got for trading Walker is this guy.


Here was Merlin's usual spot on opinion of Jennings:



2 (52) Greg Jennings WR 5-11 191 Western Michigan
Comments: Not the typical WR we were looking for. Tends to craddle the ball into his body and not use his hands. Will get crushed over the middle and not a deep threat. Speedy, but not anything special for a WR. Taken too high when there were better WR prospects on the board. More like a late 3rd rounder. May be a good return man although his ball handling skills need work.


This was just the tip of the iceberg. There was a long list of posters who were mad Jennings was taken over Jackson. There certainly was much negativity about Jennings at first.

[KYPack]

I was one of 'em. Don't think I actually had the cojones to post, but I wanted jackson, too. Never saw GJ play and Jackson tore up those combines that year. He had a fast 40 and blew up every drill.

Too bad Jackson wasn't as good a receiver as he was a workout warrior & I'd been right.

[Tarlam!]

cpk, I didn't doubt what you said. I just thought we felt TT knows WRs after T-Murph. I mean, we all said WTF with him and he was a player. Granted, with an injury, but a player.

I remember us questioning, but bowing somehow to TT's decision.

Maybe i dreamt it....

[cpk1994]

cpk, I didn't doubt what you said. I just thought we felt TT knows WRs after T-Murph. I mean, we all said WTF with him and he was a player. Granted, with an injury, but a player.

I remember us questioning, but bowing somehow to TT's decision.

Maybe i dreamt it....There were those who did what you said(Harv and BF4MVP to name two), but their were many who were bitching that Jennings was taken over Chad Jackson. There was a lot of those posts, but that would require me to sift through Tank's garbage in every thread to get to them.

[cheesner]

cpk, I didn't doubt what you said. I just thought we felt TT knows WRs after T-Murph. I mean, we all said WTF with him and he was a player. Granted, with an injury, but a player.

I remember us questioning, but bowing somehow to TT's decision.

Maybe i dreamt it....The 'benefit of the doubt' people are more and more each year. However, the very next year people were calling for TTs head after the James Jones pick, and this season, many were upset over the Jordy Nelson pick.

[Tarlam!]

and this season, many were upset over the Jordy Nelson pick.

Surely we've learnt! ? ! Although, I find myself doubting the Harrell pick these days. I know, blasphemy. So, stone me.