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Harlan Huckleby
06-05-2008, 02:30 AM
Playing for the No. 2 Spot
By Robert D. Novak
Thursday, June 5, 2008

Just when it seemed on the last Tuesday of the presidential primary season that Hillary Clinton would bow to the inevitable, she enraged Democrats who expected her to start strengthening Barack Obama as their party's nominee. During a conference call between Clinton and other New York members of Congress, Rep. Nydia Velazquez suggested that only an Obama-Clinton ticket could secure the Hispanic vote. "I am open to it," Clinton replied, according to several sources.

That message, promptly made public, infuriated Democratic activists outside the Clinton camp. Clinton was horning in on the climax to Obama's amazing political feat. Worse yet, she was going public on a vice presidential bid she knows Obama does not want to offer. Talking about an unlikely dream ticket further slows the party unification process that Clinton's critics say already comes two months too late because of her.

She showed that her exchange with Velazquez was no aberration by not delivering a concession speech Tuesday night. Clinton's extraordinary bid for the vice presidency is a new provocation, in keeping with her repeated insistence that she is electable -- implying that Obama is not.

The backing for Clinton's attitude can be seen in an encounter I had Tuesday morning. I bumped into a septuagenarian former congresswoman who was a staunch Clinton supporter. She told me she awoke that morning with the realization that her candidate would not be nominated. Well known as a no-nonsense politician, she showed another side: "I cried, really cried. We came so close -- so close."

Tears were shed that night by women with lower incomes and less education but also by accomplished older professionals such as this former congresswoman. They see Clinton as the culmination of their long struggle, with triumph snatched away by an untried, untested newcomer. They complain that, thanks to the Democratic Party's baroque nomination procedures, Clinton has been defeated despite collecting more popular votes than Obama and winning most of the battleground states.

This resentment is reflected in a private nationwide poll conducted this month by McLaughlin and Associates, which usually works for Republicans but is not connected with the McCain campaign. Poll-taker John McLaughlin found that John McCain had a 49 percent to 38 percent edge over Obama among all women. That is an extraordinary result, running counter to a longtime Democratic advantage.


The conventional wisdom is that women, along with other Clinton backers, will remain in the Democratic camp once Clinton actually concedes. But seasoned operatives for both Obama and Clinton privately advise that the length and closeness of their race make reconciliation much more difficult because Clinton did not drop out once she no longer had any clear path to the nomination.

Clinton backers who will now declare full support for the nominee in public take a different position when promised that their names will not be used. They frankly question whether Obama should be president. I asked one Democrat, a longtime political worker and sometime candidate for public office, whether he actually would vote for Obama. He paused, then replied: "Let me put it this way. I would sleep better if John McCain was president."

That is the atmosphere in which Clinton has now offered herself for the vice presidency. One of her supporters, prominent in Democratic politics for nearly half a century, saw the handwriting on the wall several weeks ago and approached Obama agents to suggest a unity ticket. "There was absolutely no interest -- none at all," he told me. "They wanted no part of it."

Washington lawyer Lanny Davis, an indefatigable advocate for Bill and Hillary Clinton over the years, on his own wrote to Obama on Tuesday night urging him "to select Sen. Clinton in recognition of the more than 17 million Democrats who supported her at the polls." Davis also talked about a petition drive to promote that goal. The Obama camp's response was not positive.

Yesterday I asked a longtime friend of the Clintons who has been neutral in the presidential race what he thought of her performance Tuesday night. He declined to answer and suggested that "we should watch what she says in the next 40 to 48 hours." He surely would not welcome more pressure, with Clinton trying to force herself onto the national ticket.

Harlan Huckleby
06-05-2008, 02:43 AM
Here's how I read Hillary's mind:

A couple months ago, when she first floated the idea of a split ticket, Clinton was sincere.

The Obama camp essentially told her to do something anatomically impossible.

Hillary's recent noise about the VP position is malicous. She is just posturing, making a show of loyalty to the party, letting Obama be the bad guy.

Clinton would not be helpful as a VP in the election. The Dems who aren't coming back to support Obama don't care who VP is.

BallHawk
06-05-2008, 09:21 AM
Jim Webb, Wesley Clark, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Tim Cain, and Bill Richardson would all be much better choices than Clinton.

Obama lacks military and world experience. Jim Webb or Wesley Clark would both be excellent choices in this regard. Clinton brings some votes, but in terms of what she brings to the office she brings nothing except press and Bill.

Harlan Huckleby
06-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Clinton would bring a lot to the the office, she is greatly respected in Washington, and Bill would not be around. She just wouldn't do much for Obama's electability. I think the Dems who aren't going to vote for Obama (in the end) are relatively few, and they won't be assuaged by having Clinton on the ticket. And Clinton carries big liabilities. I thought differently a month ago.

I don't think Wesley Clark is any good at all. His eyes sort of glow like yours, Ballhawk, I think he is slighty unhinged. You mention some other much better choices.

digitaldean
06-05-2008, 10:40 AM
Though I am not enamored with the list, I could see Webb, but not Clark.

Clark got himself fired from his post in Bosnia.

Richardson may lend some credence, though he was overrated as UN ambassador.

Colin Powell maybe??? He seems more center than Obama and definitely has the street cred in diplomacy. The one thing, though I hate to say it, some blockheads couldn't handle two African-Americans leading the country.

bobblehead
06-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Here's how I read Hillary's mind:

A couple months ago, when she first floated the idea of a split ticket, Clinton was sincere.

The Obama camp essentially told her to do something anatomically impossible.

Hillary's recent noise about the VP position is malicous. She is just posturing, making a show of loyalty to the party, letting Obama be the bad guy.

Clinton would not be helpful as a VP in the election. The Dems who aren't coming back to support Obama don't care who VP is.

The way I read her floating that months ago went like this:

He isn't experienced enough yet, but if you forgo him and vote me in I will put him on as VP, so stop voting for him, you can have the best of both worlds by voting for me....honest....STOP VOTING FOR HIM!!!

sheepshead
06-05-2008, 02:53 PM
please please please pick Hillary--please Barry please

BallHawk
06-05-2008, 03:01 PM
I don't think Wesley Clark is any good at all. His eyes sort of glow like yours, Ballhawk, I think he is slighty unhinged. You mention some other much better choices.

Webb would me my first choice because of his strong military backround as well as boosting the Dems chance in Virginia.

However, Clark brings a lot to the table. 4-star general, foreign affairs experience, military experience, and definitely the ability to shield Obama from attacks from the GOP about his lack of military backround.

Also, he was a Clinton supporter so I guess that's a bit of mending fences going on.

texaspackerbacker
06-05-2008, 08:26 PM
The latest headline is that Hillary now says she doesn't want the VP spot.

Harlan, in the unlikely event Obama DID take Hillary along as his VP candidate, would you then switch to Obama? Or would you stick with McCain?

Harlan Huckleby
06-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Obama is adored by the left wing of the Democratic Party.
McCain is distrusted by the right wing of the Republican Party.

I gotta go with McCain.

If Obama picks Hillary as VP, and Obama is assasinated, I will vote Dem.

bobblehead
06-05-2008, 10:32 PM
Obama is adored by the left wing of the Democratic Party.
McCain is distrusted by the right wing of the Republican Party.

I gotta go with McCain.

If Obama picks Hillary as VP, and Obama is assasinated, I will vote Dem.

OK, got this email from a liberal friend of mine who likes Hillary:
===============================================

St. Peter is at the Pearly Gates checking up on the people waiting to enter Heaven.

He asks the next one in line, "So, who are you, and what did you do on Earth?"

The fellow says,

"I'm Barack Obama, and I was the first black to be elected President of the United States "

St. Peter says, "The U.S.? A black President? You gotta be kidding me! When did this happen?"

Obama says, "About twenty minutes ago."

BallHawk
06-05-2008, 10:34 PM
That's pretty good. I chuckled.

Freak Out
06-05-2008, 10:37 PM
Real funny. Barrel of laughs.

Tarlam!
06-05-2008, 11:21 PM
That's pretty wicked.

I wish him all the best. Anyone who knows me, knows I also wish Rex Grossmann and T-Jack all the best, too. I like having stong competition.

Freak Out
06-06-2008, 07:01 PM
Kansas Gov. Sebelius a possible Obama running mate
David Goldstein | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: June 06, 2008 07:09:57 PM

WASHINGTON — Ever since Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius turned a red state blue six years ago, she's been a potential vice-presidential pick.

She was the rare Democrat who could win Republican votes.

That's why she's been a fixture all these months in the speculation surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's choice of a running mate.

"I think she is being considered," said Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, an Obama ally and adviser whose name also has gotten some buzz, although she discounts the possibility. "She has great executive skill, has had success in a very difficult terrain and is thought of very highly by her peers, Democrats and Republicans."

A lot of names are in the mix, including Obama's rival, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton. It's unclear whether their private meeting Thursday night settled her future role in the campaign.

In the meantime, how realistic are Sebelius' chances?

The governor said this past week that while she talks with Obama's staff and occasionally with him, "there has been no discussion with me or anyone else on my team about serving as vice president."

Paul Light, a government expert at New York University, said, "You get on a short list if you have something that you can deliver."

Based on conversations with several political strategists, analysts and others, here are some of Obama's needs and how well Sebelius might fill them:

_ Who could aid Obama in a state that would help put Democrats over the top after close finishes in the last two presidential elections?

The chances of Kansas going Democratic in the fall, even with Sebelius on the ticket and her record of red state success, are slim to none. A Democrat running for president has carried the state only once since the 1940s — Lyndon Johnson in 1964 — and Kansas hasn't had a Democratic senator since 1939.

"You can't make an argument that Kansas gets in play," said Steve Elmendorf, who helped run Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign four years ago and backed Clinton this year. "You can make an argument that someone who represents a red state brings that sense to the ticket."

Winning a swing state such as Missouri, where McCaskill might offer a boost, or snatching Virginia from the GOP is important, however. That makes Virginia Sen. Jim Webb — a Republican-turned-Democrat, a decorated Vietnam veteran and a former Navy secretary — possibly a strong contender,

Ohio, though, is at the top of the list of must-win states. Clinton trounced Obama in the primary there. That's why popular Gov. Ted Strickland, a Clinton supporter, gets a lot of attention.

But Sebelius also might help. She was born in Ohio and has a political lineage. Her father, John Gilligan, was a former Ohio governor and congressman.

_ Who could bolster Obama's lack of foreign-policy and national-security credentials?

This will be where Sen. John McCain, the eventual Republican nominee, will attack. Sebelius, who has even less experience than Obama, offers no help.

"She's a rare political talent," said Jim Jordan, a Democratic political operative and a former director of Kerry's campaign. "But her one conspicuous liability is a lack of foreign- and military-policy experience."

The names being talked about to fill this gap are Democrats such as Sens. Joseph Biden of Delaware, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and Evan Bayh of Indiana — another Clinton ally — and former Sen. Sam Nunn of Georgia, a defense expert.

_ Who could help personify Obama's message of change and dialing back the partisanship?

Webb is one. Former Republican Sen. Bill Cohen, who served as President Clinton's defense secretary, could be another.

But it's a pitch straight into Sebelius' wheelhouse. She has a record of drawing crossover voters and independents. She's a Washington outsider and a fresh face in national politics.

Another plus is her gender. More than half the voters are women, and her party's nominee defeated a very popular woman. Obama could feel a need to respond. But it's not a slam-dunk.

"The women who were Hillary Clinton supporters were very loyal to her," said Debbie Walsh, the director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University in New Jersey. "It was about her and her candidacy. I don't think you can put any woman on the ticket and just get women voters."

The veepstakes is one of the capital's favorite political guessing games. There's no perfect formula. Picking a candidate to win a state hasn't worked since 1960, when President Kennedy chose Johnson and captured Texas.

Balancing geography and age also is overrated. Bill Clinton and Al Gore both were from the South and both were baby boomers. But they presented an image of youth and vibrancy.

Choosing a running mate will be Obama's most important decision as nominee. It will say a lot about how he measures his political strengths and shortcomings and how he wants the public to view an Obama presidency.

It's in "the country's interest to make sure I make this decision well," he told CNN this week.

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

BallHawk
06-06-2008, 07:28 PM
Obama just can't choose a woman. It's too big of an "screw you" to Hillary and her supporters. Now, to be honest, I don't think Sebelius is that good of a choice anyway (doesn't bring a lot of the necessary background Obama needs)