Time for......Off-Season Power Rankings

[GrnBay007]

Only posted our division. The full list is on Fox Sports.
BTW Seahawks are ranked #1


FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS POWER RANKINGS: Off-season

Rk Team W-L Last year

11. BEARS 11-5 9
The entire defense returns, and they now have two quarterbacks who are not Kyle Orton. They look like a team that had a fluke year, but they really aren't. They will win the division again.


20. VIKINGS 9-7 15
The offensive line will be better, and the rest of the team will be worse. Conventional wisdom says that Brad Childress is a big upgrade on Mike Tice, but teams generally struggle in their first year with a new coaching staff. Last year's turnaround coincided with the move of cornerback Brian Williams into the starting lineup, and he's gone to Jacksonville.


25. LIONS 5-11 26
Every year, at least one defense filled with young talent suddenly jells and makes a playoff run. Detroit has a good chance of being that defense this year. But there's nothing to make us believe that the underachieving offense will turn things around, Mike Martz or no Mike Martz.


26. PACKERS 4-12 31
The Packers are a hard team to figure out. They could be back in the hunt for the top overall pick, or they could make a run at a winning record. Most likely they will limp their way to 6-10. Brett Favre will extend his record streak of 221 consecutive starts by 16 more, bask in the fans' adulation for the last time at Lambeau Field on December 21, and head home to Mississippi.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

they could have at least put us in front of the lions....

[GrnBay007]

they could have at least put us in front of the lions....

I know :mad:
That's ok though......kinda fun to watch the Packers climb the rankings each week!! :mrgreen:

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

we better, with our 12-4 predictions oo7 :smile:

[retailguy]

Most likely they will limp their way to 6-10.



Call me, Mr. Cleo...... :sad:

[GoPackGo]

There's no way they go 4-12 again and the Bears were a fluke last year

[GrnBay007]

If they look like a fluke

and smell like a fluke

It was a fluke!!

I think the writer for the rankings was a bear fan. :razz:

Week 1 Lambeau......kick a lil bear ass. :mrgreen:

[GrnBay007]

My brother was in Vegas last month and said the lines were out for week 1. Packers are getting 3 pts. against the bears week 1 at home.

[red]

so according to these clowns, we didn't improve ourselves at all this off season, and having guys back and healthy won't make any difference

more proof that the experts don't really pay attention to anything

[wist43]

Green Bay coming in at #26 is about right... I don't know what you guys are looking at to think they'll be better than that.

From a talent standpoint they are slightly improved... but, when you're starting from scratch, you've got nowhere to go but up. Add to that a novice coaching staff, and you're in nothing short of full-blown rebuilding mode.

I think I'm being wildly optimistic by predicting "one game either way of 7-9.

[GBRulz]

Even if we didn't sign any new players, i'd say the fact that we're not playing with NFLE calibur players because of all the injuries, that should get us at least a couple more wins right there.

But, I'd rather upset than BE upset

[red]

Green Bay coming in at #26 is about right... I don't know what you guys are looking at to think they'll be better than that.

From a talent standpoint they are slightly improved... but, when you're starting from scratch, you've got nowhere to go but up. Add to that a novice coaching staff, and you're in nothing short of full-blown rebuilding mode.

I think I'm being wildly optimistic by predicting "one game either way of 7-9.

but even that should have us in the upper 20's. not in almost the same spot we were last year when half our starters were injured and we had a 6th string running back starting at the end of the year

[K-town]

If they look like a fluke

and smell like a fluke

It was a fluke!!

I think the writer for the rankings was a bear fan. :razz:

Week 1 Lambeau......kick a lil bear ass. :mrgreen:

Lovie Smith and the rest of the Bears take a field trip to the Library to look up the meaning of the word "fluke."

[The Leaper]

Green Bay was not the 28th or 29th least talented team last year...injuries and an incompetent coaching staff hindered what was otherwise a fairly average roster of talent.

IMO, this team was about the 20th most talented team in the league going into last season...mostly because the defense was almost a non-entity in 2004. With the offseason additions, I think that has bumped up a couple slots...so we are right around the mid-line mark in terms of talent without factoring in anything else. Most of the other factors right now seem to balance each other out at present. The new coaching staff is both a negative and positive...which will weigh more heavily on the team won't be known until the bullets are live. The schedule is in the Packers favor. Injuries are likely to be in our favor after the disaster last year.

So...if the team stays relatively healthy, they should maintain a record similar to their talent level...around 8-8.

[wist43]

I know you guys want to see the glass as half full, but this team has a lot of problems, and they won't show improvement until they're dealt with.

The back seven on defense is vastly improved from last year, but they still have absolutely zero pass rush... no defense can be effective w/o a pass rush. Their top 10 ranking last year was a mirage... they weren't that good.

On offense, their OL is very unsettled. If you don't have a cohesive OL your offense is going nowhere. Beyond that, their skill position players have all the explosiveness of a fire cracker - w/o a top flight OL, and w/o playmakers at the skill positions, I don't see this offense putting up very good numbers.

If both units produce middle of the pack numbers and rankings... I'll consider that progress.

Add to those problems a completely green Head Coach, and new coordinators on both sides of the ball, and you've got the makings of a very slow start while those guys learn on the job - assuming they even have the mettle to succeed to begin with.

Sorry for this dose of reality, but that's the way it is... Hopefully they can get to 8-8 and build from there in succeeding years, but there are definitely going to be major growing pains this year.

[red]

we didn't have a pass rush last year, and our o-line was also in shambles then

last year we lost all our running back, and our top reciever, then we found out we only had 1 decent WR left on the roster.

so things haven't changed for the pass rush and the o-line, but you stated our back 7 has improved. i would say we have a lot more talent at WR this year, compared to what we played with last year. our Rb's should be healthy which should be a huge upgrade over what we played with last year. our #1 TE is healthy, or is suppose to be. special teams should be better with the extra depth on the team.

a new head coach, our coach last year was a horrible game day coach, it would be hard for MM to be much worse IMO

the only spot that i see where we are worse off is the kicker, the other spots are the same or improved big time over what we had during the season last year

rb are better just by guys being healthy
qb, the same but our backup looks a lot better
wr, lost javon, but he didn't play last year, jennings and boe are nice additions a long with a lot of other young new guys
o-line- can't get much worse then last year, new system and players can only help
te- a healthy bubba is an upgrade over the injured bubba of last year
de's- the same, maybe a young guy might step up a bit, but the starters haven't changed
DT- grady was an absolute wall when he was in the game, pickett is a younger guy that should be able to stay on the field more. other DT should be improved from last year just because of gaining experience. i call this spot a wash
lb- much better this year if its hawk, hodge and barnett or hawk taylor and barnett. even with 2 rookies starting i think we would be better then last year.
cb- much, much better this year. we now have 2 shut down CB's. say what you will about the injuries to woodson, but if he stays healthy he's in a totaly different class then carrol
s- collins is back with a full year under his belt, and i'd say a rock with moss on it might be a better safety then roman. at worse this year we are the same as last year

k-i'm pretty sure we'll be worse here
p- the same or better

[BallHawk]

Here is how I see us doing...

(A) We play like we did last year and end up in the 5-11, 6-10 area

(B) We surprise every one and win the division with a 10-6, 11-5 record.

I think we're gonna be choice B. I kinda see ourselves as the 2004 San Diego Chargers. A team that bombed the year before and suddenly everything just clicked.

And Power Rankings don't bother me too much, especially when the author puts the Philadelphia Eagles at number 9 and says they're a serious contender in the NFC, even though they are either #3 or #4 in their division.

I will enjoy our climb up the power rankings this season.

[Badgepack]

In the past few years in the NFL, a team will rise from the depths of bottom of the league and make the playoffs. I will assume that will be the Packers this year, because they are my team. Until we have 8 loses or so, that will be my take. We are only 1 season removed from being in the playoffs, we had a ton of injuries and were very close to winning more than 4 games last year.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

i like sportsline powerrankings a lot better and it made more sense to me.

last updated may 16

17 Minnesota Vikings
They've made some nice moves since the end of last year, including drafting Iowa linebacker Chad Greenway in the first round. But can Brad Johnson be the answer at quarterback at his age? Will they regret letting Daunte Culpepper go?


20 Chicago Bears
They were very good on defense last year and so-so on offense, yet they went strong on defense in the draft. What the heck was that all about?

23 Green Bay Packers
Brett Favre decided to play again, which is a good thing. But they still have a lot of questions, starting with running back.

30 Detroit Lions
If they think Jon Kitna and Josh McCown are the long-term answers at quarterback, they better think again. They're serviceable for now, but is that good enough?

if you want to see the rest heres the link:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/powerrankings

[jack's smirking revenge]

I know you guys want to see the glass as half full, but this team has a lot of problems, and they won't show improvement until they're dealt with.

The back seven on defense is vastly improved from last year, but they still have absolutely zero pass rush... no defense can be effective w/o a pass rush. Their top 10 ranking last year was a mirage... they weren't that good.

On offense, their OL is very unsettled. If you don't have a cohesive OL your offense is going nowhere. Beyond that, their skill position players have all the explosiveness of a fire cracker - w/o a top flight OL, and w/o playmakers at the skill positions, I don't see this offense putting up very good numbers.

If both units produce middle of the pack numbers and rankings... I'll consider that progress.

Add to those problems a completely green Head Coach, and new coordinators on both sides of the ball, and you've got the makings of a very slow start while those guys learn on the job - assuming they even have the mettle to succeed to begin with.

Sorry for this dose of reality, but that's the way it is... Hopefully they can get to 8-8 and build from there in succeeding years, but there are definitely going to be major growing pains this year.

I agree with wist. There are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many question marks with this team. As the ranking stated, it's hard to know what to expect from the Pack. We hear glowing individual reports coming out of the OTAs but we don't know how this team will be with a new coaching staff, new members of the offensive line, Charles Woodson on the corner and AJ Hawk on the line. We just don't know.

The Pack was one of the worst teams in the league last year and I think they deserve to stay there until they prove that they don't belong there.

I'd rather have the media paint us as underdogs and underestimate our talent than pull a "Viking" and glow about how great of an offseason we've had and slot us for the Super Bowl.

To quote Al Pacino from the Devil's Advocate..."Don't get too cocky my boy. No matter how good you are don't ever let them see you coming. That's the gaffe my friend. You gotta keep yourself small. Innocuous. Be the little guy. You know, the nerd... the leper... shit-kickin' surfer. Look at me.....Underestimated from day one. You'd never think I was a master of the universe, now would ya?"

tyler

[havanother]

I don't agree with Minn posted above Chicago. If they flipped those two I would agree. Chicago doesn't have anything to prove, they are Div. champs and although minny has made improvements they have to prove themselves as the top team. Remember last year when MN. was handed the division? Regardless I think the race will be between them this year and we'll be watching while sitting on top of the lions.

[Rastak]

I don't agree with Minn posted above Chicago. If they flipped those two I would agree. Chicago doesn't have anything to prove, they are Div. champs and although minny has made improvements they have to prove themselves as the top team. Remember last year when MN. was handed the division? Regardless I think the race will be between them this year and we'll be watching while sitting on top of the lions.

I agree...plus, when the annual season ending injury happens to Grossman (not hoping either) they'll have Griese.....

[The Leaper]

The back seven on defense is vastly improved from last year, but they still have absolutely zero pass rush... no defense can be effective w/o a pass rush. Their top 10 ranking last year was a mirage... they weren't that good.

I agree that they weren't as good as their simple yardage ranking. However, the BIGGEST key for any defense is creating turnovers. Even Donatell was able to mask the subpar talent on defense when he had a group that created turnovers. If this defense can create 2 turnovers a game, then they have a chance to become a top ten defense.

The DL is subpar in rushing the passer, and needs to improve. However, where you may see the improvement in that area will be at LB...where they have depth and can be much more aggressive in blitzing now that they have greater experience in the secondary. This also is the first year in ages that the defense actually will be running the same scheme they did the year before. Finally, they have a chance to work more on fundamentals and techniques in training camp instead of learning a new system. I find it very reasonable to assume that this defense will be at least marginally better at rushing the QB in 2006.


On offense, their OL is very unsettled. If you don't have a cohesive OL your offense is going nowhere. Beyond that, their skill position players have all the explosiveness of a fire cracker - w/o a top flight OL, and w/o playmakers at the skill positions, I don't see this offense putting up very good numbers.

I disagree. The OL was just as unsettled last year...even moreso IMO. The offense still moved the chains...we had more first downs than our opponents in 2005. What killed the offense last year was not the OL, even though the OL was certainly average at best and at times subpar. Turnovers and not taking advantage of scoring opportunities is what killed this offense in 2005. THREE TURNOVERS A GAME!! I don't care if you have the most settled, dominating OL in the NFL...that many turnovers spells disaster.


Add to those problems a completely green Head Coach, and new coordinators on both sides of the ball, and you've got the makings of a very slow start while those guys learn on the job - assuming they even have the mettle to succeed to begin with.

Who cares. I'm not comparing M3 to Parcells...I'm comparing him to Sherman. Sherman was a miserable in-game coach, and at times last year even dropped the ball completely outside of the game as well. Even a green, inexperienced head coach could easily turn out to do a better job than Sherman did last year. Plenty of green, inexperienced head coaches have done a damn good job recently. M3 may not be one of them...but even if he does a respectable job, it will be a vast improvement over last year.

This team clearly is not a title contender in 2006...and a marginal playoff contender even if several things fall their way. However, the future is bright...and this team is likely going to be much stronger at the end of the year than it was at the beginning. If that is enough to get Favre back in the saddle for 2007...that's good enough for me.

[red]

well said leaper

one thing i will add that i forgot before, but shouldn't be overlooked. I DO think the loss of Bates will have a negative effect on the D, he brought a fire that helped motivate a lot of guys to perform better then maybe they should have.

i hope a guy like Hawk can bring some motivation and intensity that might have been lost with bates

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I do agree with leaper and other who said the D was not as good as their ranking last year. But this year they made several key additions that will imporve them this season and in future seasons.

1) they upgraded the cornerback position with C. wood
2) Drafting Hawk(starter from day 1) and hodge
3) replacing a old grady jackson with a young pickett.

I will not say manuel is an upgrade b/c he really has done nothing his whole career, but we will see.

In two years from now I really see our D in the top five in the league b/c if you look at all the starter on the D they are all locked up for at least the next two years with no free agents. This will allow them to grow as a unit a and really gel together, all the while playing in the same system. Not to mention next years draft and free agents that could also be added to the unit.

[Tarlam!]

In Germany, they play Soccer as you know. One year, a team called Kaiserslautern were promoted to play in the top division. At the beginning of the year, they were ranked 3rd last out of 18 teams. 2 years previously they were unceremoniously demoted into the 2nd division and had to fight their way back.

Kaiserlautern did something no other team in Europe has ever achieved before or after. They won the Title the year they were promoted. They almost went undefeated.

They changed a few players to the previous coupla year. But, they were so annoyed at being talked down to by the big clubs, they decided to listen to their fans. Those fans compare well to the Lambeau crowds in passion and love for their team.

[Rastak]

In Germany, they play Soccer as you know. One year, a team called Kaiserslautern were promoted to play in the top division. At the beginning of the year, they were ranked 3rd last out of 18 teams. 2 years previously they were unceremoniously demoted into the 2nd division and had to fight their way back.

Kaiserlautern did something no other team in Europe has ever achieved before or after. They won the Title the year they were promoted. They almost went undefeated.

They changed a few players to the previous coupla year. But, they were so annoyed at being talked down to by the big clubs, they decided to listen to their fans. Those fans compare well to the Lambeau crowds in passion and love for their team.


Hey Tarlem, I saw a bunch of their games that year....watched alot of German football that winter......

[Partial]

I agree...plus, when the annual season ending injury happens to Grossman (not hoping either) they'll have Griese.....


:lol:

[FavreChild]

So...

Bears
Vikings
Lions
Packers

...in that order. Wow, just how they finished last year. Because very little changes from year to year in the NFL. :roll:

Power rankings are shoddy, horserace journalism.

Now I'm not saying that making predictions isn't fun - it is. But predicting is different than regurgitation of teams by order of their records from last year. So thanks to those contributing their own actual analysis or actually predicting something other than the expected. Carry on...

[red]

In Germany, they play Soccer as you know. One year, a team called Kaiserslautern were promoted to play in the top division. At the beginning of the year, they were ranked 3rd last out of 18 teams. 2 years previously they were unceremoniously demoted into the 2nd division and had to fight their way back.

Kaiserlautern did something no other team in Europe has ever achieved before or after. They won the Title the year they were promoted. They almost went undefeated.

They changed a few players to the previous coupla year. But, they were so annoyed at being talked down to by the big clubs, they decided to listen to their fans. Those fans compare well to the Lambeau crowds in passion and love for their team.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :evil:

keep your pansy soccer crap out of the forum devoted to real football

j/k, i love soccer. i think i played more seasons then i was old up till high school

[Partial]

The packers have the starting horses on the DL, they just don't have the depth at DE to excel. If they can get a healthy, 4 man rotation, they'll be set. Notice how much more effective the DT's were in rotation? The DEs (especially KGB) will reap the benefits of it.

[havanother]

Whoa there! There's no regurgitation here. I'm predicting Bears Vikes to close to call, but the Bears have the edge until the Vikes prove themselves and then the Pack above the Lions. I only vomit when I'm sick with the 3.2 flu, when it comes to football I know my sh**

[RashanGary]

The packers have the starting horses on the DL, they just don't have the depth at DE to excel. If they can get a healthy, 4 man rotation, they'll be set. Notice how much more effective the DT's were in rotation? The DEs (especially KGB) will reap the benefits of it.

I agree. There is much talk amongst coaches that Montgomery is starting to turn it on. If KGB, Kamp, Montgomery could all take about 66% of the snaps, I think they could be OK.

If one DE goes down, the unit is dangerously thin. They need one more capable young player. I doubt Tollifson is that guy at this point. He looks underdeveloped physically. He'll probably make the practice squad, but I'd hate to count on Kenny Peterson to take snaps at DE.

[FavreChild]

Havanother, you are not an official news source claiming that your power rankings are "insightful journalism!"

So your thoughts are totally fine. And valid. And better than the fake analysis used to justify the "power rankings."

As I said, carry on!

:cool:

[havanother]

My mistake, too much caffeine today. :oops:

[BallHawk]

On defense I think one guy that will really contribute is Cullen Jenkins. He showed a lot of promise at the end of last year, and I think this season could be a breakout season for him.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Uh-oh...there's that term "breakout" again....

tyler

[Murphy37]

Power rankings hey? Ok....just for fun.

Bears
Packers
Vikings
Lions

Brad Johnson goes out early with an injury, and the Pack makes a late surge to surpass them. The Bears boring ass team featuring all defense and no offense, wins the division by a game. The Lions, well they continue to be the Lions.
Someone made the comment that it didn't matter who was in the O-line, as long as we were giving up so many turnovers. In my mind, the poor O-line is what caused the bulk of those turnovers. Lack of run blocking leads to more explosive shots to the RB, causing fumbles. Lack of pass blocking leads to those same fumbles by the QB, teamed up with hurried throws, deflected passes etc.

[Rastak]

Power rankings hey? Ok....just for fun.

Bears
Packers
Vikings
Lions

Brad Johnson goes out early with an injury, and the Pack makes a late surge to surpass them. The Bears boring ass team featuring all defense and no offense, wins the division by a game. The Lions, well they continue to be the Lions.
Someone made the comment that it didn't matter who was in the O-line, as long as we were giving up so many turnovers. In my mind, the poor O-line is what caused the bulk of those turnovers. Lack of run blocking leads to more explosive shots to the RB, causing fumbles. Lack of pass blocking leads to those same fumbles by the QB, teamed up with hurried throws, deflected passes etc.


Better watch that Karma Murph! The Pack o-line will be suspect until it proves otherwise (which it may). What would happen if GB's starting QB went down for the year?

[Chester Marcol]

In Germany, they play Soccer as you know. One year, a team called Kaiserslautern were promoted to play in the top division. At the beginning of the year, they were ranked 3rd last out of 18 teams. 2 years previously they were unceremoniously demoted into the 2nd division and had to fight their way back.

Kaiserlautern did something no other team in Europe has ever achieved before or after. They won the Title the year they were promoted. They almost went undefeated.

They changed a few players to the previous coupla year. But, they were so annoyed at being talked down to by the big clubs, they decided to listen to their fans. Those fans compare well to the Lambeau crowds in passion and love for their team.

Can't argue the point about our fans. However, with about 14 veterans, many key veterans, not showing up for OTA's doesn't exactly make me feel like they are at all annoyed about 4-12.

[Murphy37]

Power rankings hey? Ok....just for fun.

Bears
Packers
Vikings
Lions

Brad Johnson goes out early with an injury, and the Pack makes a late surge to surpass them. The Bears boring ass team featuring all defense and no offense, wins the division by a game. The Lions, well they continue to be the Lions.
Someone made the comment that it didn't matter who was in the O-line, as long as we were giving up so many turnovers. In my mind, the poor O-line is what caused the bulk of those turnovers. Lack of run blocking leads to more explosive shots to the RB, causing fumbles. Lack of pass blocking leads to those same fumbles by the QB, teamed up with hurried throws, deflected passes etc.


Better watch that Karma Murph! The Pack o-line will be suspect until it proves otherwise (which it may). What would happen if GB's starting QB went down for the year?

Ha Rastak you Viking Bastard! You are very right. My Packer homerism does not allow me to rank the Packers lower than 2nd on the list, so don't be offended. Most years, I would refuse to rank them anything else but #1. Hell, realistically, they could go 0 and 16 with the line issues and the new coaching staff, and a run of injuries like last year. What do I know about the Vikes? Only that they have a new coaching staff like us, and odds are, they'll take their lumps. Your right though, I should watch the Karma when I'm predicting an injury to a rival's aging QB. How's that Stadium thing goin over there? :razz:

[wist43]

The packers have the starting horses on the DL, they just don't have the depth at DE to excel. If they can get a healthy, 4 man rotation, they'll be set. Notice how much more effective the DT's were in rotation? The DEs (especially KGB) will reap the benefits of it.

I agree. There is much talk amongst coaches that Montgomery is starting to turn it on. If KGB, Kamp, Montgomery could all take about 66% of the snaps, I think they could be OK.

If one DE goes down, the unit is dangerously thin. They need one more capable young player. I doubt Tollifson is that guy at this point. He looks underdeveloped physically. He'll probably make the practice squad, but I'd hate to count on Kenny Peterson to take snaps at DE.

Montgomery is the wild card... if he can offer some consistent pressure, and keep Kampman and KGB fresh, then maybe they could get all the way up to having a below average pass rush. Right now, they have no pass rush - at all.

KGB is a one-trick pony, i.e. if he doesn't get the corner, he's done... and, most of his sacks come in garbage time against inferior tackles; Kampman has no ability to get the corner... he can mount an average bull rush, but really he can only be counted on to get a handful of sacks every year simply on hustle, not on talent - he doesn't scare anybody; then there is Montgomery.

That's not a very good stable of DE's.

[Rastak]

Power rankings hey? Ok....just for fun.

Bears
Packers
Vikings
Lions

Brad Johnson goes out early with an injury, and the Pack makes a late surge to surpass them. The Bears boring ass team featuring all defense and no offense, wins the division by a game. The Lions, well they continue to be the Lions.
Someone made the comment that it didn't matter who was in the O-line, as long as we were giving up so many turnovers. In my mind, the poor O-line is what caused the bulk of those turnovers. Lack of run blocking leads to more explosive shots to the RB, causing fumbles. Lack of pass blocking leads to those same fumbles by the QB, teamed up with hurried throws, deflected passes etc.


Better watch that Karma Murph! The Pack o-line will be suspect until it proves otherwise (which it may). What would happen if GB's starting QB went down for the year?

How's that Stadium thing goin over there? :razz:

Better than ever, they passed some groundwork stuff with the Twins bill so it should pass next year, assuming they stay off the lake for the whole year.....

:D

[Rastak]

Hey Murph, I will admit I'd rather have Rodgers than McMahon...at least you'd get your QB of the future some work, for the Vikes it would be a wasted year.

[mngolf19]

Hey Murph, I will admit I'd rather have Rodgers than McMahon...at least you'd get your QB of the future some work, for the Vikes it would be a wasted year.

Hey, but if you listen to Childress, Jackson is ready to go. :wink:

[Murphy37]

You never know Rastak, Mcmahon might turn out to be the next big thing in Minnesota, like Sean Salsibury.

[jack's smirking revenge]

In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article...

Vikings rethink stadium game plan
Team says alternatives to Blaine site needed after rejection by lawmakers
BY BOB SHAW
Pioneer Press

The Minnesota Vikings are renewing their vow to build a stadium, though not necessarily in Anoka County.

After the team suffered a stinging setback at the state Capitol to its $790 million stadium proposal, a Vikings spokesman said Tuesday that the plan in Blaine might be too bogged down by politics to be viable.

"We have a great partnership with Anoka County, but we need a Plan B and Plan C. Mr. Wilf is very much a Plan B and Plan C kind of guy," said Vikings Vice President Lester Bagley, referring to Vikings owner Zygi Wilf. "There may not be an opportunity in Anoka County. Things change."

Bagley wouldn't say what other sites might be considered for a Vikings stadium.

The Vikings were left out of legislation that will provide stadiums for the Minnesota Twins and the University of Minnesota. But Bagley was encouraged by one little-noticed provision approved by the Legislature that would earmark most of the proceeds from the sale of the Metrodome site to a Vikings stadium.

Vikings officials estimate the downtown Minneapolis site would be worth about $45 million. Of that, the first $5 million would go toward the Twins stadium, and the rest would go toward the state's share of a Vikings stadium.

"We see that as a down payment," said Bagley.

Bagley said another reason for hope was that the bill rejected a referendum on a 0.15 percent sales tax to cover Hennepin County's share of the new Twins stadium in downtown Minneapolis.

Bagley assumes the Vikings will get the same break.

"There is definitely a precedent set by the Twins," he said.

Still, the state's rejection of the Vikings stadium left Blaine Mayor Tom Ryan and other supporters discouraged.

"It's pretty disgusting to have it end this way," Ryan said. "It's sad. This has been four years of work for us."

And despite the Vikings' optimism, plans for an Anoka County stadium face several complications, most notably a fight over the public's right to vote on a stadium tax.

Public opposition to a proposed Anoka County tax increase appears to be stronger than in Hennepin County, in part because the Anoka plan assumes a 0.75 percent sales tax — five times more than the tax for the Twins stadium.

Various polls have shown support for a referendum on the tax as high as 80 percent, and four cities have passed resolutions supporting such a vote.

Stadium backers admit that voters probably would turn down a stadium tax, but they say similar large projects have used public money without voter approval.

The Anoka County Board of Commissioners has supported imposing the tax without a referendum. The tax would pay the county's one-third share of the stadium's cost, with the remainder coming from the state and the team.

The two naysayers on the board — Rhonda Sivarajah and Jim Kordiak — have supported a referendum.

"I am not against the Vikings, but I want that vote," Sivarajah said. "I am not fond of public subsidies for stadiums. The owners could be building them on their own."

Four of the seven Anoka County Board members face elections in the fall. Although no new pro-referendum candidates have emerged, Sivarajah said, "I certainly have heard murmurings."

Bagley said that if the county decides to put the tax to voters, the proposal would die.

"If the political will evaporates, we have got to be prepared," he said.

Another worry is county funding for lobbying and public education.

The county has spent $600,000 on the stadium effort and earmarked an additional $300,000 for "mega-projects," including the stadium.

Stadium supporters talked about that money and the sales tax revenue as seed money — creating 13,000 temporary and long-term jobs and millions of dollars in annual tax revenue.

But in a year when the county is making cutbacks in its human services budget for such programs as child protection, Sivarajah is balking.

"On one hand we say we need to make these reductions, but on the other we have money to dump into studies and promotions for the Vikings," she said.

Control of the land also might be a problem.

Wilf and the Vikings have options to buy about half the land on the 740-acre site. Development on the other half is blocked by a city building moratorium — which expires in September.

It could be extended, Ryan said, depending on how the Blaine City Council votes. The mayor said three council members are up for re-election in November, but he didn't think their stands on the stadium would make much difference in city support.

One of the biggest landowners on the site said acquisition of the property by the Vikings wouldn't be a problem, as long as the moratorium were in place.

"If they have a moratorium, where else are we going to go?" asked Rick Wilder, owner of the Metro Gun Club, which sits on 140 acres at the site.

Although he hasn't agreed to sell to the Vikings, Wilder said he was satisfied by the initial contacts with the team. He said he would sell for the right price, but he can't predict what will happen.

"You are in the dark, I am in the dark, everyone's in the dark," Wilder said.

Bob Shaw can be reached at bshaw@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-5433.

[Rastak]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

[Murphy37]

I still live in the Twin Cities too, well at least for another week or so. I've heard the same as JackSmirk, mostly negative. Rastak seems optimistic. I'm not so sure. What the hell do I care, the dome just gives me another reason to rip them. :lol:

[Murphy37]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

The votes, from my understanding, that's the issue. Some think that they'll never get the votes. Rastak would know better than I though, he gives a shit. :razz:

[jack's smirking revenge]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

This was written a week ago Rastak. Pioneer Press. You must have some rose-colored glasses because everything I hear supports the point that people won't support a stadium tax. The legislature "slipped" the piece you're excited about without many people knowing. That's not a solid foundation; that's a hoodwink.

tyler

[Rastak]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

The votes, from my understanding, that's the issue. Some think that they'll never get the votes. Rastak would know better than I though, he gives a shit. :razz:


It isn't a slam dunk but it looks good right now...you know politics, it could change.....I refuse to worry about it.....bring on the preseason.....

[jack's smirking revenge]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

The votes, from my understanding, that's the issue. Some think that they'll never get the votes. Rastak would know better than I though, he gives a shit. :razz:


It isn't a slam dunk but it looks good right now...you know politics, it could change.....I refuse to worry about it.....bring on the preseason.....

I think that's the big concern. Pawlenty and the administration are supporters of the stadium. If the Republicans are removed from the high offices, I think you'll hear a different song. It's all about politics. Truly, if the Dems regain the majority, then I think this will be put to bed again.

As with Murph, I don't really care.......so long as my MN tax dollars don't have to fund it.

tyler

[Rastak]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

The votes, from my understanding, that's the issue. Some think that they'll never get the votes. Rastak would know better than I though, he gives a shit. :razz:


It isn't a slam dunk but it looks good right now...you know politics, it could change.....I refuse to worry about it.....bring on the preseason.....

I think that's the big concern. Pawlenty and the administration are supporters of the stadium. If the Republicans are removed from the high offices, I think you'll hear a different song. It's all about politics. Truly, if the Dems regain the majority, then I think this will be put to bed again.

As with Murph, I don't really care.......so long as my MN tax dollars don't have to fund it.

tyler


Well your support of the Twins stadium with your tax dollars is appreceated Jack....LOL

[jack's smirking revenge]

"In regards to the stadium, I don't think its as rosy as Rastak made it out to be. I guess it depends on who you talk to. I live in the TC and the voices I hear aren't as optimistic and even less supportive. The majority of people just don't want to pay for it. Here's an article..."



Oh I think it is Jack. Things are lined up pretty well. If they don't screw it up it should get approved next year...I'm more confident in that than in any year since this came up.
Not sure when that was written but there will be no referendum, that was agreed to in the Twins bill. Twins rank far behind the Vikings in popularity. The hardest stuff has been done, They still need the votes of course, but next year is not an election year. I've followed this pretty closely as you can imagine.
Things aren't done yet but they are rosier than ever.

The votes, from my understanding, that's the issue. Some think that they'll never get the votes. Rastak would know better than I though, he gives a shit. :razz:


It isn't a slam dunk but it looks good right now...you know politics, it could change.....I refuse to worry about it.....bring on the preseason.....

I think that's the big concern. Pawlenty and the administration are supporters of the stadium. If the Republicans are removed from the high offices, I think you'll hear a different song. It's all about politics. Truly, if the Dems regain the majority, then I think this will be put to bed again.

As with Murph, I don't really care.......so long as my MN tax dollars don't have to fund it.

tyler


Well your support of the Twins stadium with your tax dollars is appreceated Jack....LOL

It's not like I had any say with that one either... I'm not against the Twins or the Vikes personally. I just am wholeheartedly against a multi-millionaire owner having his stadium partially paid for by public money and then wreaping the profits for the next couple of decades from the stadium public money helped build. Perhaps a discussion for another thread.

In the near future, I'll research the Twins stadium bill further to see how I can minimize my financial support of it. I don't know the specifics right now, but I will.

tyler

[GoPackGo]

Hey Murph, I will admit I'd rather have Rodgers than McMahon...at least you'd get your QB of the future some work, for the Vikes it would be a wasted year.

I've been waiting for you to admit it.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=1012&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

[Rastak]

Totally agree, I'm bored silly with this talk....


so how bout them Packers?

[Rastak]

Hey Murph, I will admit I'd rather have Rodgers than McMahon...at least you'd get your QB of the future some work, for the Vikes it would be a wasted year.

I've been waiting for you to admit it.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=1012&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

If your original point was Rodgers is better than Johnson then I still contend you are dead assed wrong. Now McMahon doesn't do anything for me so I'd rather have a Tedford project than something I know isn't any good. And something I know is a one year stop gap.

At least Green Bay would find out what they had if Favre went down with an ACL or something. Minnesota would just waste their year with McMahon. IMHO.

[GoPackGo]

This was my Original point:
B. Johnson-38 years old and not gifted with a great arm
Mike McMahon-no talent assclown
J.T. o'Sullivan-Packer reject and no talent assclown #2
Tarvaris Jackson-who?

This is a new point:
You wish you had Aaron Rodgers

[Rastak]

This was my Original point:
B. Johnson-38 years old and not gifted with a great arm
Mike McMahon-no talent assclown
J.T. o'Sullivan-Packer reject and no talent assclown #2
Tarvaris Jackson-who?

This is a new point:
You wish you had Aaron Rodgers

1) Don't put words in my mouth.
2) Only if he was free, you can have him for a 1st round pick.

[red]

whoohoo, cat fight

[Rastak]

whoohoo, cat fight

Fuck, don't look at me, the dude is obcessed with Rodgers for some odd reason.