Most overated coach of all-time?

[sheepshead]

I'll add my comments later

[GBRulz]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

[cpk1994]

What, no Mike Sherman in this poll? :lol:

[Charles Woodson]

I wouldnt put Phil up there. I mean at the very least he has won championships. I mean your talking 9-1. I mean i will admit that during those times he had some of the most dominant players, Jordan and Shaq. But still personally dont call him over-rated.

[sheepshead]

Well, tangentially Packer related and timely because the Celts smacked the Lakers last night.

[Charles Woodson]

Well, tangentially Packer related and timely because the Celts smacked the Lakers last night.


I think that if the Lakers had Andrew Bynum the outcome would have been alot closer. Im not saying they still would have won, but at least 7 games

[packers11]

I'm a Celtics fan but you can't blame Phil Jackson for that loss...

It was basically Kobe vs KG/Allen/Pierce...

Kobe didn't have to much help, and the fact that he sucked last night makes it even worse...

[Scott Campbell]

My vote goes to Mike Sherman.

[sheepshead]

yeah, but at some point in their careers, these guys have been compared to Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Auerbach, Holzman , Nelly, Wilkins,I know Jackson has the numbers but cant seem to win unless he has an all star team to work with. Even then how he lost any games in those Shaq and Kobe years I'll never know.

I just think he finds himself in the right place at the right time-that was certainly the case in Chicago.

[The Leaper]

Well, one has 9 titles and the other only has 1.

I'm guessing the guy with 1 is probably more overrated.

[Patler]

yeah, but at some point in their careers, these guys have been compared to Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Auerbach, Holzman , Nelly, Wilkins,I know Jackson has the numbers but cant seem to win unless he has an all star team to work with. Even then how he lost any games in those Shaq and Kobe years I'll never know.

I just think he finds himself in the right place at the right time-that was certainly the case in Chicago.

Did Auerbach do it with less talent than Jackson? I don't think so.
Does that make Auerbach overrated?

A lot of NBA teams with talent don't win. Some argue that egos were so dominant in Chicago and LA that without Jackson and his ability to manage egos they never would have achieved what they did.

It is often said that any good coach can manage very talented players to a championship, but it takes a real leader and manager of personalities to control exceptionally talented teams and win multiple championships. Guys who do that, and Jackson has done it twice, earn their accolades, in my opinion.

[Guiness]

yeah, but at some point in their careers, these guys have been compared to Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Auerbach, Holzman , Nelly, Wilkins,I know Jackson has the numbers but cant seem to win unless he has an all star team to work with. Even then how he lost any games in those Shaq and Kobe years I'll never know.

I just think he finds himself in the right place at the right time-that was certainly the case in Chicago.

Jackson is a great coach for a great team. He prevents stars from beating themselves. He was able to keep Shaq/Kobe from blowing up long enough to win one more championship, when it was obvious they hated each other. I remember the talk of him teaching Shaq about Zen in order to keep his cool during the 'hack a Shaq' episodes. He was able to manage multiple all-stars his years in Chicago. A similar manager in baseball might be Bobby Cox.

Overated for me? Who was that dweeb that cashed in on the machine Jimmy Johnson's left in Dallas when he bolted?

[the_idle_threat]

yeah, but at some point in their careers, these guys have been compared to Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Auerbach, Holzman , Nelly, Wilkins,I know Jackson has the numbers but cant seem to win unless he has an all star team to work with. Even then how he lost any games in those Shaq and Kobe years I'll never know.

I just think he finds himself in the right place at the right time-that was certainly the case in Chicago.

Jackson is a great coach for a great team. He prevents stars from beating themselves. He was able to keep Shaq/Kobe from blowing up long enough to win one more championship, when it was obvious they hated each other. I remember the talk of him teaching Shaq about Zen in order to keep his cool during the 'hack a Shaq' episodes. He was able to manage multiple all-stars his years in Chicago. A similar manager in baseball might be Bobby Cox.

Overated for me? Who was that dweeb that cashed in on the machine Jimmy Johnson's left in Dallas when he bolted?

Barry Switzer, Super Bowl Champion

[SkinBasket]

I would vote for Jackson if the NBA was a sports league and not an entertainment enterprise.

[oregonpackfan]

I agree that Barry Switzer was an overrated NFL coach. He rode Jimmy Johnson's coattails into the Super Bowl.

While Switzer was an excellent college coach at Oklahoma, he was just another example of how many very good college coaches cannot do well at the NFL level.

[bobblehead]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

[cheesner]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

Actually, Parcells left the cowgirls 2 seasons ago. They did much better AFTER he left the team.

He was a very good coach at one time, but that was a while ago. When was the last playoff game he won?

As far as Sherman, Switzer, etc. votes, they were not overrated. At least most people acknowledge that they weren't very good. If you want to vote for the Forrest Gump Award (success despite not being very bright) then sure, Switzer would get my vote.

[Bretsky]

Bad Poll IMO

Holmgren is a good coach

[Freak Out]

I have not watched an NBA game since the Blazers lost to Shaq and the lakers some years ago but I'm wondering if they still have those 40 minute lame introductions with the corny music going? Fuck that shit is painful.

[Freak Out]

I have not watched an NBA game since the Blazers lost to Shaq and the lakers some years ago but I'm wondering if they still have those 40 minute lame introductions with the corny music going? Fuck that shit is painful.

Alan fucking Parsons....eye in the sky I believe. Ugh....

[woodbuck27]

Bad Poll IMO

Holmgren is a good coach

Certainly.

I hate 'the set up' for all the Mike Sherman bashing by people 'so perfect'.

[sheepshead]

This post was just about 2 guys that in one case has a street named after him and in both cases have been mentioned along with the greatest coaches in their sport, of all time. Sherman is a different poll because he was over his head in the first place-at least with both jobs.
I never bought the hype about these two guys. I do respect what Favre and MJ thought of them and you cant argue with Jacksons numbers. I dont see him in the same light as Nellie and maybe Pat Riley, guys that get the most from their players. Just my personal thing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nellie? You're kidding, right?

Jackson isn't underrated or overrated. He's rightly rated as one of the best of all-time. I do think he needs to get out though. I think he's about had enough.

[Iron Mike]

Overated for me? Who was that dweeb that cashed in on the machine Jimmy Johnson's left in Dallas when he bolted?

Hmmmm.........make a guess as to how Jimmy Johnson's machine would have run had the Queens not made the Herschel Walker trade??

Perhaps like his 26-21 record with the Dolphins??? :roll:

Give Double J an "overrated" tag courtesy of IM.

[bobblehead]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

Actually, Parcells left the cowgirls 2 seasons ago. They did much better AFTER he left the team.

He was a very good coach at one time, but that was a while ago. When was the last playoff game he won?

As far as Sherman, Switzer, etc. votes, they were not overrated. At least most people acknowledge that they weren't very good. If you want to vote for the Forrest Gump Award (success despite not being very bright) then sure, Switzer would get my vote.

You counting this season over already?? He left them ONE season ago because Jones wasn't letting him run it his way. And they got better last year because he rebuilt that team and it was slowly coming into its own. Three straight 5-11 seasons before parcells, he reassembled that roster and they excelled the last 2 years. This year we will see what happens 2 years out from his influence.

Jets...12-4 losing AFC championship to the superbowl champion broncos.

Patriots...made it to the superbowl.

Giants...2 superbowl titles. When Parcells took over in 1983, the New York Giants were a team that had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years.

Recap, took 3 different teams to championship game, 2 different teams to a superbowl, and turned around 4 organizations that were abject failures in the seasons before his arrival.

that walsh guy was over rated too....and that lombardi fella.

I will admit he fatigues quicker now days and doesn't see it thru like when he was younger, but his record is undeniable. I bet the dolphins are a winning organization within 3 years, probably making the playoffs by the 2010 season.

[GBRulz]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

IMO, Parcells was only successful when Bellichik was by his side.

And his last test...with Dallas. The team was a joke and he couldn't control TO. Look at the turnaround in the big D since he left.

[Charles Woodson]

I never bought the hype about these two guys. I do respect what Favre and MJ thought of them and you cant argue with Jacksons numbers. I dont see him in the same light as Nellie and maybe Pat Riley, guys that get the most from their players. Just my personal thing.

See my problem with Riley, is this last time, when he quit on the heat, Stan Van Gundy got them back in contention, and then here comes Riley. Basically Van Gundy should have gotten the first Heat championship and not Riley. And what do you know, the heat do really bad and Riley quits again.
Although all that to say i went to school with Pat Riley's daughter, a really nice girl, although she smoked alot of weed.

[packrat]

Sherman can't be overrated. Overrated means people think you are better than you are and what objective person would ever call Sherman a great coach, or even a good one? His track record in playoff wins couldn't get him a job with any NFL team as a head coach.

[Bossman641]

I'd say Parcells among these 2.

I wouldn't say Jackson is a great coach in terms of X's and O's, but he is good at managing his teams and getting them to at least coexist. He looks like he is done though, made no adjustments during the Finals.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lot of haters on this forum.

parcells overrated. LOL

Jackson overrated. LOL

[MadtownPacker]

This is a stupid fucking poll. How the hell is Holmgren overrated when half his coaching staff is now a HC in the NFL?? As for Jackson, how the hell does 9 rings make you overrated?? Red Auerbach himself was quoted saying it was all about the players.

Punching yourself in the nuts is probably overrated too but you should try it sometime.

[bobblehead]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

IMO, Parcells was only successful when Bellichik was by his side.

And his last test...with Dallas. The team was a joke and he couldn't control TO. Look at the turnaround in the big D since he left.

Yea, he quit because Jones wouldn't LET HIM control TO. Now here we are 2 years after parcells and TO isn't at the workouts. You can't point out them winning a few games, going one and done in the playoffs as big improvement....especially when it is PARCELLS THAT BUILT THAT TEAM. Again, talk to me this season as Miami improves and Dallas tanks.

[Fritz]

Mr. Kettle, my little league coach. He had all the pieces to win a championship in a four-team little league (including me, all-star center fielder and league batting champ), and he couldn't manage our (parents') egos. He yelled and screamed and after a while we tuned him out. Yet somehow he had a rep like Bill Parcells.

Way overrated, Mr. Kettle was.

[mraynrand]

Lot of haters on this forum.

parcells overrated. LOL

Jackson overrated. LOL

Agreed. How much better do you get than Parcells and Jackson? The answer is none - none much better.

I have to admit though, this is a really tough category - mostly because nobody really tends to give any coach any props at all. I'm sitting here trying to think of a non-retired coach that people still love. The guys that are overrated tend to be the one-year wonders in their one year - like Sean Payton, perhaps even Lovie Smith or the hot $hit new coaches who come from a 'great system' or tradition, like Childress. They're typically overrated until a few games into their first season. So perhaps the MOST OVERRATED HEAD COACH OF ALL TIME should go to Marty Morningwheg (5-27 and 0-16 on the road, elected to kick off in overtime), because he was thought to be a good west coast coach, there was real optimism in Detroit, and he was in reality one of the all-time worst coaches in the history of the NFL, right next to Les Steckel. Note, this is for Head Coach, because both Marty and Les had success as coordinators or position coaches - that's probably why they were allowed to be head coach for more than one game.

[mraynrand]

Mr. Kettle, my little league coach. He had all the pieces to win a championship in a four-team little league (including me, all-star center fielder and league batting champ), and he couldn't manage our (parents') egos. He yelled and screamed and after a while we tuned him out. Yet somehow he had a rep like Bill Parcells.

Way overrated, Mr. Kettle was.

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the Kettle black.

[mraynrand]

DID I HEAR TALKING OUT THERE! DROP AND GIVE ME 50!!!

http://multimedia.premierespeakers.com/speaker/web/399.jpg


"Les Steckel

Former NFL Coach, Golden Glove Boxing Champion and "Leader of Men""

http://premierespeakers.com/les_steckel

[bobblehead]

Mr. Kettle, my little league coach. He had all the pieces to win a championship in a four-team little league (including me, all-star center fielder and league batting champ), and he couldn't manage our (parents') egos. He yelled and screamed and after a while we tuned him out. Yet somehow he had a rep like Bill Parcells.

Way overrated, Mr. Kettle was.

Well, that settles it then, parcells blows....my bad.

[Guiness]

Lot of haters on this forum.

parcells overrated. LOL

Jackson overrated. LOL

Agreed. How much better do you get than Parcells and Jackson? The answer is none - none much better.

I have to admit though, this is a really tough category - mostly because nobody really tends to give any coach any props at all. I'm sitting here trying to think of a non-retired coach that people still love. The guys that are overrated tend to be the one-year wonders in their one year - like Sean Payton, perhaps even Lovie Smith or the hot $hit new coaches who come from a 'great system' or tradition, like Childress. They're typically overrated until a few games into their first season. So perhaps the MOST OVERRATED HEAD COACH OF ALL TIME should go to Marty Morningwheg (5-27 and 0-16 on the road, elected to kick off in overtime), because he was thought to be a good west coast coach, there was real optimism in Detroit, and he was in reality one of the all-time worst coaches in the history of the NFL, right next to Les Steckel. Note, this is for Head Coach, because both Marty and Les had success as coordinators or position coaches - that's probably why they were allowed to be head coach for more than one game.

Good thoughts on that. Lots of ways a guy can become overrated - some come in with a lot of fanfare - most recent example is Steve Spurrier. Others move into a great situation, like Sherman. Some others just seem to get lucky for a bit, like the Jet's current head coach. But for the most part, that doesn't last long.

For the record, I don't think either of the mentioned coaches are overrated. But I wouldn't mention Jackson and Holmgren (that's who the poll was about!) in the same breath.

[GBRulz]

Not sure why you have it limited to just two choices and yes, I will agree that both are over rated. However, I can think of others who deserve to be there before Holmgren. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Parcels jump out at me at the moment.....

Say what, Parcells takes over shit programs every where he goes and turns them around....after he leaves those programs tend to slip off considerably(see cowboys this season, I'm calling 9-7)

IMO, Parcells was only successful when Bellichik was by his side.

And his last test...with Dallas. The team was a joke and he couldn't control TO. Look at the turnaround in the big D since he left.

Yea, he quit because Jones wouldn't LET HIM control TO. Now here we are 2 years after parcells and TO isn't at the workouts. You can't point out them winning a few games, going one and done in the playoffs as big improvement....especially when it is PARCELLS THAT BUILT THAT TEAM. Again, talk to me this season as Miami improves and Dallas tanks.

Fair enough. And then you can remind me that Parcells actually built a winner out of a team without Belichik by his side.

[bobblehead]

C'mon, you really believe it was all belicheck? Wild bill has coached exactly one team to prominence....with Tom Brady as his QB, and he CHEATED the whole way.

and parcells did turn around dallas, you can't deny that, he went from 3 straight 5-11 seasons to making the playoffs and only quit when Jones basically took TO's side. If you really think Wade Phillips is the genius behind the resurgance of the cowboys maybe you should check out his playoff record....0-whatever. As in one and done every time he made the playoffs.

When Bellicheck wins a superbowl without tom brady, and takes 3 seperate sad ass programs to the championship game I'll listen. I don't mean to knock BB, but seriously, to suggest that he is the only reason Parcells was successful is as laughable as any statement I've read on this site.

[Fritz]

Mr. Kettle, my little league coach. He had all the pieces to win a championship in a four-team little league (including me, all-star center fielder and league batting champ), and he couldn't manage our (parents') egos. He yelled and screamed and after a while we tuned him out. Yet somehow he had a rep like Bill Parcells.

Way overrated, Mr. Kettle was.

Well, that settles it then, parcells blows....my bad.

No, no, no. I think Parcells was an excellent coach. Lousy human being, but a good coach. I don't agree that he's overrated, not at all.

I just think Mr. Kettle was overrated. He had a rep like Parcells, but he couldn't bring home the bacon like Parcells could.

[KYPack]

DID I HEAR TALKING OUT THERE! DROP AND GIVE ME 50!!!

http://multimedia.premierespeakers.com/speaker/web/399.jpg


"Les Steckel

Former NFL Coach, Golden Glove Boxing Champion and "Leader of Men""

http://premierespeakers.com/les_steckel

I heard that when they fired Les, the headline in Minny was "Less Steckle".

Him and Bill Petersen(ex-Oiler) are the two shittiest NFL xcoaches I've ever seen.

[bobblehead]

Mr. Kettle, my little league coach. He had all the pieces to win a championship in a four-team little league (including me, all-star center fielder and league batting champ), and he couldn't manage our (parents') egos. He yelled and screamed and after a while we tuned him out. Yet somehow he had a rep like Bill Parcells.

Way overrated, Mr. Kettle was.

Well, that settles it then, parcells blows....my bad.

No, no, no. I think Parcells was an excellent coach. Lousy human being, but a good coach. I don't agree that he's overrated, not at all.

I just think Mr. Kettle was overrated. He had a rep like Parcells, but he couldn't bring home the bacon like Parcells could.

Ok, makes more sense that way, I don't know parcells, I can only speculate what he is like. I know a few of his ex players like TO hate him, and several like Harry Carson love him. I have an idea what he is about, but I can't speak with any certainty.

[Charles Woodson]

Oh, btw, Dave Wanstead was a damn awful coach.

[MJZiggy]

So was Steve Spurrier at least in the NFL...

[bobblehead]

In light of the dolphins being on the verge of post season and the cowgirls being on the verge of going home I felt obligated to bump this thread.

Parcells is a fricking genius. Be it as a GM or head coach the man flat out knows the game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is subject to having any opinion second guessed for eternity.

[oregonpackfan]

DID I HEAR TALKING OUT THERE! DROP AND GIVE ME 50!!!

http://multimedia.premierespeakers.com/speaker/web/399.jpg


"Les Steckel

Former NFL Coach, Golden Glove Boxing Champion and "Leader of Men""

http://premierespeakers.com/les_steckel

I heard that when they fired Les, the headline in Minny was "Less Steckle".

Him and Bill Petersen(ex-Oiler) are the two shittiest NFL xcoaches I've ever seen.

If you recall, Les Steckel followed the highly respected Vikings coach Bud Grant.

After Steckel was fired, a local joke was "Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?--Les Steckel!" :)

[oregonpackfan]

Notre Dame's coach Charlie Weiss is overrated, IMO.

[Gunakor]

Notre Dame's coach Charlie Weiss is overrated, IMO.

Notre Dame just won it's first Bowl Game in a decade and a half!

But I still agree with you :lol:

[sheepshead]

Notre Dame's coach Charlie Weiss is overrated, IMO.

My only problem with this is, this looks like a failure, rather than "overrated". The only people that "rated" him this high are the domers. He has never been a HC anywhere else and no one has ever compared him to Rockne or Parseghian.

[Partial]

Phil Jackson has had stacked teams around him. I don't know how he ends up in such good sitations. Holmgren clearly is a great coach. It is undeniable. Neither is overrated imo.