Packers gaining confidence in Rodgers' strong arm

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3450317

Packers gaining confidence in Rodgers' strong arm
By John Clayton, ESPN.com

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The best evidence of how much Brett Favre's presence suffocated the attention of Packers outsiders resides in the right arm of Aaron Rodgers.

As it turns out, Rodgers has a very strong arm. He's had the strong arm since he's been in Green Bay. The football explodes off his hand on each throw in practice. Teammates have noticed it for years because they work with or against him in practice.

Thanks to the towering presence of No. 4, though, who knew?

Favre was a gunslinger from a different era. He was a master of the quick draw, a shootist. But in practice, quarterbacks don't square off at 30 yards and fire at each other. And, because no one expected Favre to miss a start, Rodgers barely caught the eyeball.

While you might feel as though you're missing something watching Packers minicamp without Favre, it's impossible not to notice how impressive Rodgers looks now that No. 12 runs the offense. He has a smooth, polished retreat from center. His feet are in good position for each throw out of three- and five-step drops.

And then you take notice. His right arm sets up naturally, and the ball comes out unnaturally fast. He doesn't possess an old Randy Johnson fastball, but, in baseball terms, his 6-2 body throws the fastball of a 6-5 pitcher. Sticking to baseball comparisons, Rodgers might not generate 99 or 100 mph on the radar gun, but he'd consistently hit 94 and 95, and sometimes 96.

"He has a cannon," wide receiver Greg Jennings said. "We call him the 'Human Jugs Machine.' He throws it like a Jugs machine every time.

"He can make every throw on the football field, and his deep ball is one of the prettiest. Brett had a great deep ball, but Aaron has a beautiful one."

Jennings said there are some throws Rodgers makes that have more velocity than Favre's. As a young receiver, Jennings can only speak about Favre in his later years. "We knew that coming in that Aaron throws a lot harder, so it's not a surprise," the third-year Packer said.

Running the West Coast offense, though, Rodgers isn't asked to go deep much. Favre wasn't either, but it was his nature to do it anyway. Rodgers won't have Favre's flair for the dramatic -- who will? -- but you can see he will bruise a few fingers and hands trying to move the chains out of three- and five-step drops.

"He's just throws hard," wide receiver Donald Driver said. "He's just one of those guys who doesn't have any touch at all. He just throws, and that's a good thing. He's able to get the ball to you when he needs to get it to you."

Coming out of Cal, Rodgers took some criticism for his throwing, which might have been unfair. Cal coach Jeff Tedford has run a college laboratory for quarterbacks at Fresno State, Oregon and now Cal. He has produced five first-rounders -- Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller and Rodgers. Unfortunately for Rodgers, he was victimized by some of the failures of the Tedford quarterbacks before him.

Rodgers, despite being debated as a pick for the top of the 2005 draft, fell all the way to the Packers at No. 24. Scouts were skeptical because Tedford quarterbacks make slow, if not disappointing, transitions into the NFL. This is where Rodgers might have caught a break. Being Favre's backup is like being in the witness protection program. No one sees you. No one judges you.

The time away from the limelight allowed Rodgers to make a few natural adjustments in his delivery.

"It's really where I carried the ball," Rodgers said. "It's not a conscious thing. We were drilled every day at Cal to hold the ball high and were drilled in the way our arm dropped. When I got to the NFL, we weren't doing that every day. It came up with a more natural position."

It probably didn't hurt to throw behind Favre either. Favre was a natural. He threw rockets even falling backward. Rodgers might have left Cal a byproduct of precise teaching, but not having the constant drilling allowed him to be more natural with his throws. His right arm released the ball lower than it did at Cal.

"As that happened, my release point was able to center up a little better," Rodgers said. "I became way more consistent with my release point. The more consistent you are with your release point, the more accurate you are.

"Coming out in the draft, my release was kind of the knock on me. I had no problem with my release point coming back down. Once it did, I felt the accuracy was back. Once I got to a more natural point, I was throwing like it was in high school."

Packers coach Mike McCarthy was 49ers offensive coordinator in 2005 when they were debating whether to take Alex Smith or Rodgers. The 49ers took Smith.

"Aaron has a very strong arm and really always has," McCarthy said. "We dropped his ball carriage. He had a very high one when he came out. Now, it's a little more fluid and that helps him transition more into the movement part of it. He's very fundamentally strong. He's clearly one of the better guys I've had the opportunity to work with."

The alteration of Rodgers' throw started when he was a rookie in 2005, so he shouldn't develop any arm troubles because he's been throwing with the more natural motion for almost three years.

Aside from the strong arm, it will be interesting to watch how Rodgers evolves as a leader of the team. He won't be Favre; replacing a Hall of Fame quarterback is one of the most difficult assignments in sports. What's easy to see, though, is that he gets along well with the offense.

One of the things he learned from Favre was an understanding of the jobs of the receivers and how to explain to them their assignments. Favre did that more on the sidelines and after plays. Rodgers communicates those duties more in the huddle instead -- a testament to the fact that he doesn't feel intimidated running a huddle, a trait Rodgers attributes to when he was a junior college quarterback at Butte College.

"I had a 25-year-old center, a 24-year-old left tackle, a 24-year-old right tackle, guys who have been in jail and guys from all over the place," Rodgers said. "When you come in there, you don't have a lot of authority when you are an 18-year-old talking to these guys. I wasn't nervous at all."

Now Rodgers' arm is easing some of the nervousness of those who worry about how the Packers will replace Favre.

John Clayton, a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame writers' wing, is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

[bobblehead]

I remember when McCarthy got here he said the arm would come down naturally and work into a better motion, seems he really knows his shit.

Also, I was shocked in the dallas game last year when AR came in a started throwing darts. I always percieved him as a very average arm, and in that game he threw some heat at times, sounds like he has really come into his own. I think by week 8 we will see if he has what it takes or not, as he has had the old school opportunity of sitting 2 (3 in his case) seasons before having to play.

[RashanGary]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

[Packnut]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.


Thank again my friend!

I always know that in the morning I can sit down with a hot cup of coffee and get a laugh over something stupid you post. Yeah, I'm sure the bullet pass to Jones down the sideline at Minny was all reputation as was the laser to Jennings in the same game. There are sooooooo many other examples from last season that make your statement ludicrous. I really hope you don't believe half the crap you post.................. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[The Leaper]

Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end.

All reputation?

:shock:

I can agree that Favre's arm in 2007 is probably very similar in strength to Rodgers' arm in 2008. I wouldn't be dumb enough to suggest that Favre's arm was all reputation in 2007 though...he still had one of the 10 strongest arms in the NFL, even at age 38.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

This is just idiotic, and makes me think you don't know much about football.

[Charles Woodson]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

This is just idiotic, and makes me think you don't know much about football.

You just started to wonder that? :shock:

[Zool]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

This is just idiotic, and makes me think you don't know much about football.

You just started to wonder that? :shock:

Change think to confirm.

[DonHutson]

Based on that article, the only one "gaining" confidence in Rodgers' arm is John Clayton. Nobody else seems surprised.

[CaliforniaCheez]

The first two years of preseason play were disappointing.

I saw the light come on and things go much better last year.

He is ready. He needs experience that will come with playing. The offense is in real good shape and his NFL career will be more successful than it would be if he had been thrown in immediately and struggled with the 49'ers.

Packer fans have much more to worry about on the defense.

[Freak Out]

It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

We should be so lucky.

[SMACKTALKIE]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

This kid is hilarious. Is there a possibility he is a representative of a young group of packer fans who have lost perspective on all realities of the QB position? Spoiled by 17 years of great quarterbacking.

There will never be another Favre and you obviously don't realize how lucky you are as a packer fan to have cheered him on.

[BallHawk]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_6LcGbHxR8&feature=related

Ok.

[run pMc]

He's just one of those guys who doesn't have any touch at all

Anybody else find this quote from DD odd? Don't you want your QB to have both a strong arm and the sense of touch and ability to take a little off it and drop it between the CB and S in a zone coverage?

[bobblehead]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_6LcGbHxR8&feature=related

Ok.

I'm not really taking sides on this one, but that throw wasn't great arm strength (great read of the defense though). And listening to the announcers...well, they wouldn't exagerate would they?

[RashanGary]

Live in your little dream worlds, that's a you problem.

Brett's arm was really good last year. Nothing more. Rodgers threw the ball just as hard in Dallas. No drop off at all. Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one. Well either that or. . . Yeah, you Favre lovers don't want to hear it :)

[Packerarcher]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

I was going to ask if you were of your meds again. But it's obvious by going back and reading many of your previous posts that there is no behavior altering substance that could help you. You are just FUCKED UP,sorry everyone else for the language. But I have to call it the way I see it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Live in your little dream worlds, that's a you problem.

Brett's arm was really good last year. Nothing more. Rodgers threw the ball just as hard in Dallas. No drop off at all. Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one. Well either that or. . . Yeah, you Favre lovers don't want to hear it :)

Comments like this bring back some old memories. First of all, I don't think anybody is even saying Rodgers doesn't have an arm comparable to Favre at this point. It's the whole "I forgot Favre even had a good arm" stuff. That's just idiotic. Favre still threw hard when he needed to. He didn't do it as often, but that's a good thing. When he was younger, Favre used to throw hard on plays even when it wasn't necessary at times.

As far as comments by Jennings, you should know to take them with a grain of salt. It's a player trying to pump up his teammate that's under a lot of pressure. If you go back to last year, you'll see the comments made by the same players talking about how Favre still had one of the best arms in the league.

Rodgers had a nice game against Dallas. There wasn't one throw that made you think "wow, what amazing arm strength he has." Even last year, Favre still made those throws on occasion.

[Partial]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_6LcGbHxR8&feature=related

Ok.

I'm not really taking sides on this one, but that throw wasn't great arm strength (great read of the defense though). And listening to the announcers...well, they wouldn't exagerate would they?

agreed. It was like 53 yards in the air. It looks like the 11 to the 38.

If I remember correctly, the slant against San Diego was a rocketball.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not surpised. I forgot Favre even had a rocket arm untill I went back and looked at old footage. Favre's legendary arm was all reputation at the end. Rodgers arm isn't even great. It's just as good as Favres was at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_6LcGbHxR8&feature=related

Ok.

I'm not really taking sides on this one, but that throw wasn't great arm strength (great read of the defense though). And listening to the announcers...well, they wouldn't exagerate would they?

agreed. It was like 53 yards in the air. It looks like the 11 to the 38.

That ain't bad. You have to remember that it would be 53 years if he threw it straight down the field. He threw it from the middle of the field to the sideline--which means it went closer to 60 yards. You ever watch those QB challenges? Half those QBs could barely get it over 60 yards in those competitions. To do it in a game, off his back foot. Great throw. I agree that it doesn't really show ball speed, but it definitely took some arm strength.

[Bretsky]

Live in your little dream worlds, that's a you problem.

Brett's arm was really good last year. Nothing more. Rodgers threw the ball just as hard in Dallas. No drop off at all. Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one. Well either that or. . . Yeah, you Favre lovers don't want to hear it :)



Rodgers looked very good in Dallas, but I don't remember one single throw that indicated...wow....what a strong arm. Do you ? Bring back the old JH as opposed to the sarcastic me against the Favre defenders JH. I agree with everything HW posted. I just don't feel like getting into anything in the offseason.

[bobblehead]

Live in your little dream worlds, that's a you problem.

Brett's arm was really good last year. Nothing more. Rodgers threw the ball just as hard in Dallas. No drop off at all. Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one. Well either that or. . . Yeah, you Favre lovers don't want to hear it :)



Rodgers looked very good in Dallas, but I don't remember one single throw that indicated...wow....what a strong arm. Do you ? Bring back the old JH as opposed to the sarcastic me against the Favre defenders JH. I agree with everything HW posted. I just don't feel like getting into anything in the offseason.

I agree, on the big picture, it didn't remind me of a young favre or elway, but my point was I thought his arm was very average, and it surprised me to see him making some very strong throws. I think his arm is definately on par with favre at this point, but all the other intangibles would go to favre still. I just hope he developes those other factors fast.

[mraynrand]

I think his arm is definately on par with favre at this point, but all the other intangibles would go to favre still. I just hope he developes those other factors fast.

I'm assuming you mean the 17 year veteran Favre. I think there's about three guys in the history of the NFL with an arm on par with Favre's at it's best - with respect to strength (and above average accuracy - to exclude the fastballers with no control!).

[Packerarcher]

Let's just say what the majority are thinking. Brett Favre is/was the best,and anyone that really thinks AROD is just going to transition smoothly is high. I bealieve it was another thread that someone said certain age fans have grown up watching Brett as our QB. So to them they don't understand the crap we had before Brett,and what i am afraid will be just as bad crap after.

[woodbuck27]

Such BS hype.

Good grief. :)

[Bretsky]

Live in your little dream worlds, that's a you problem.

Brett's arm was really good last year. Nothing more. Rodgers threw the ball just as hard in Dallas. No drop off at all. Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one. Well either that or. . . Yeah, you Favre lovers don't want to hear it :)



Rodgers looked very good in Dallas, but I don't remember one single throw that indicated...wow....what a strong arm. Do you ? Bring back the old JH as opposed to the sarcastic me against the Favre defenders JH. I agree with everything HW posted. I just don't feel like getting into anything in the offseason.

I agree, on the big picture, it didn't remind me of a young favre or elway, but my point was I thought his arm was very average, and it surprised me to see him making some very strong throws. I think his arm is definately on par with favre at this point, but all the other intangibles would go to favre still. I just hope he developes those other factors fast.

I hope to admit I'm wrong; but I have not seen anything from AROD indciating that his arm is as strong as Favre's was even last year. Up to this point I feel AROD has a decent arm that is on par with most NFL QB's.

[Fritz]

"We call him the 'Human Jugs Machine.' "


I thought that was Pamela Anderson.

[DonHutson]

"We call him the 'Human Jugs Machine.' "


I thought that was Pamela Anderson.

Her jugs are only human in the sense that they were attached to one.

[Guiness]

I hope to admit I'm wrong; but I have not seen anything from AROD indciating that his arm is as strong as Favre's was even last year. Up to this point I feel AROD has a decent arm that is on par with most NFL QB's.

I agree with you, and also hope I'm wrong! It would almost be an embarassment of riches to have 2 QBs in a row like that!

I guess we won't know until we know. I've never seen it said before that he had way above average arm strength. I'm guessing this statement might be a standard camp fluff piece. Sure, he may throw for a ton when he steps into it (no shortage of guys who can do that) but Favre threw for a ton while falling backwards. He also threw for a ton, never blinking, as Sapp bore down on him. Arm strength is half the package or less. Anybody want Kyle Boller here?

[RashanGary]

:lol: Favre's arm was not special last year.

[bobblehead]

I think his arm is definately on par with favre at this point, but all the other intangibles would go to favre still. I just hope he developes those other factors fast.

I'm assuming you mean the 17 year veteran Favre. I think there's about three guys in the history of the NFL with an arm on par with Favre's at it's best - with respect to strength (and above average accuracy - to exclude the fastballers with no control!).

exactly, it ain't favre in his prime, but the favre of last year had an above average arm, not the HOF one he sported most of his career. If Arod has and above average arm and makes good decisions and plays within the offense, we should do ok....IF.

[sharpe1027]

Let's just say what the majority are thinking. Brett Favre is/was the best,and anyone that really thinks AROD is just going to transition smoothly is high. I bealieve it was another thread that someone said certain age fans have grown up watching Brett as our QB. So to them they don't understand the crap we had before Brett,and what i am afraid will be just as bad crap after.

Agreed.

Even so, I'm putting my hope in MM's QB coaching ability. He's turned out some pretty good QBs in his time.

Also, the crap before Brett was more than just bad QBs, it was bad from top to bottom, bad players (not all, but too many), bad coaching and bad management. I'm cautiously optimistic, but realize that Arod is more likely to be gone in two years than he is to make a probowl.

[Bretsky]

:lol: Favre's arm was not special last year.

Too General

I think Favre had a top 10 arm last year hands down; once it was much higher

I would not try to argue Rodgers had a top 10 arm; nothing I've seen of him so far would lead me to believe that.

[RashanGary]

Special:
Jay Cutler
Jamarcus Russell



Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman



There is a very small, elite class that can throw harder than anyone else. Favre used to be the leader of that pack, now he's right with the pack. Rodgers is right with the pack too. There should be very little drop off in arm strength. I've watched the Dallas game several times and Rodgers threw the ball just as hard as Favre, if not harder. Don't ask me though, Jennings and Jones probably know more than any of us and they say Rodgers throws harder.

I know this hurts people like someone was questioning their religion, but Favre is a human being and like all other people, his physical skills eroded from age 24 to age 39. It's just part of this reality thing we live in. Any one of you (or all of you) can join me if you let down your defenses enough to see it.

[MJZiggy]

How the hell can you say Jamarcus Russell? Has he ever completed a pass?

[Partial]

How the hell can you say Jamarcus Russell? Has he ever completed a pass?

He can chuck it something like 80 yards they say though.

[mission]

How the hell can you say Jamarcus Russell? Has he ever completed a pass?

He can chuck it something like 80 yards they say though.

from one knee...

the legend says at least ...

[MJZiggy]

I don't care what they say he can do--they said Favre could do that on his knees. Dude's gotta be able to get it to the receiver. Until he does, he's not special.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman

This list is laughable.

[Zool]

Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman

This list is laughable.

I would laugh if I thought he was joking.

[Bretsky]

Special:
Jay Cutler
Jamarcus Russell



Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman



There is a very small, elite class that can throw harder than anyone else. Favre used to be the leader of that pack, now he's right with the pack. Rodgers is right with the pack too. There should be very little drop off in arm strength. I've watched the Dallas game several times and Rodgers threw the ball just as hard as Favre, if not harder. Don't ask me though, Jennings and Jones probably know more than any of us and they say Rodgers throws harder.

I know this hurts people like someone was questioning their religion, but Favre is a human being and like all other people, his physical skills eroded from age 24 to age 39. It's just part of this reality thing we live in. Any one of you (or all of you) can join me if you let down your defenses enough to see it.


To be honest this list destroys your credibility; there are a lot of sub par arms on your very good list that Favre is well above. If you actually think that is accurate it's hard to even begin reasoning.

[bobblehead]

I don't care what they say he can do--they said Favre could do that on his knees. Dude's gotta be able to get it to the receiver. Until he does, he's not special.

Pretty sure he was just talking strength and nothing else....btw, where was mike vick on that list?

[RashanGary]

I don't take offense. I know many Favre fans use Favre as a way to measure their own self esteem (odd, I know). It doesn't suprise me that y'all don't see the drop off and it doesn't suprise me that y'all get offended when it is brought up.

Reality though, Favre's arm is no longer top 5. It's very good. So is Rodgers. Don't hate the messenger. Just deal with the message like men.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Reality though, Favre's arm is no longer top 5. It's very good. So is Rodgers. Don't hate the messenger. Just deal with the message like men.

I think many would acknowledge Favre is no longer top 5. I wasn't even arguing Rodgers vs. Favre. How could I? I've only seen Rodgers throw a little bit, and he hasn't made any awe-inspiring throws, but that doesn't mean he couldn't. However, that's not what you were saying. Way to change the argument once you found yourself on the losing end. Your list was absurd. To suggest that Favre has average arm strength, even at this stage of his career, just shows how little you know about football. You act like the people backing Favre in this thread are some Favre worshippers. Few are. I'm not. I think you're the one who has gone overboard in your Favre bashing. It's gotten irrational, but--like Woody in his Thompson bashing--you fail to see it. Deal with that message like a man. Wait... I forgot you aren't a man yet.

[KYPack]

Alex Smith and Byron Leftwich kind of blow up your list, JH.

I'd say start over, but I'm scared you'd do it.

Somehow you've got too far afield here and your point doesn't make sense.

[Partial]

I don't care what they say he can do--they said Favre could do that on his knees. Dude's gotta be able to get it to the receiver. Until he does, he's not special.

I don't believe that. I've never been super impressed with his distance. Its his insane velocity that he gets on a line that is so impressive. Some of those guys can chuck it farther than Favre, but I doubt they can fire a harder laser.

[Partial]

The guys that can really chuck the ball a long way to my knowledge are:

Favre
The raider dude
Culpepper
Leftwich
Boller

I don't think any of those guys can get a ball out nearly as fast as Favre, or can throw a laser like him. There is a HUGE difference between taking several steps and a huge wind-up and chucking it a long way versus doing it against a pass rush with a quick release in a ball game. Take a look at their combine NFL records and you'll see what I mean!! Those guys, while having an arm that can make all the throws when there isn't a rush, have yet to show that they can in game consistently.

Give me Favre any day when I need someday to rifle a ball.

[RashanGary]

Good point, Partial. I don't know if I agree that Favre still throws and elite level laser, but his quick release, strong arm (not elite at all), damn good fundementals and top tier decision making made him great last year. Early in his career it was his rocket arm and brute strength that allowed him to get away from defenders. The Favre last year was a very different QB of the Favre 15 years ago but similarly effective. Rodgers is going ot have to play more like the 39 year old Favre than the 24 year old Favre because Rodgers just doesn't have the phsyical skills of a young Favre. He might be a step up from the old Favre physically though. His teammates seem to think so as well so it's not that far fetched.

[Tarlam!]

but realize that Arod is more likely to be gone in two years than he is to make a probowl.

I was nodding in agreement until I got to the above. Sharpe, are you speculating Brohm is the future of this Franchise?

[GrnBay007]

I don't take offense. I know many Favre fans use Favre as a way to measure their own self esteem (odd, I know). It doesn't suprise me that y'all don't see the drop off and it doesn't suprise me that y'all get offended when it is brought up.

Reality though, Favre's arm is no longer top 5. It's very good. So is Rodgers. Don't hate the messenger. Just deal with the message like men.

ODD is this train of thought....


I know many Favre fans use Favre as a way to measure their own self esteem

Where do you come up with this stuff? :shock:

[HarveyWallbangers]

I bet you could go to NFL.com and look at the highlights of the guys Harrell mentioned, and you wouldn't find four highlights for many of them making some of throws Favre made last year. The laser to Driver in the back of the endzone at the Giants early in the year. The throw along the right sideline to James Jones for a TD at Minnesota. The ~57 yard throw to Jennings at Denver in OT off the back foot (you can argue whether he needed to make it off his back foot, but that's another issue). The throw to Jennings at Kansas City off his back foot for the game winning TD (this one he probably needed to throw off his back foot because the blitz was coming). That took great arm strength to throw it up there using all arm. Those weren't even his hardest throws, but those are four that you can probably see in the highlights at NFL.com.

[Stevogbfan]

Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman

This list is laughable.

I would laugh if I thought he was joking.

he has to be joking... his "Special" qb have hardly played and his "very good" qb's have ben, matt, tom, donavan and brett on the list... superbowl qb's
let's not forget, brett is the only 3 time mvp ever

[MJZiggy]

God I hate the offseason.

[Scott Campbell]

...........but his (Favre's) quick release, strong arm (not elite at all), damn good fundementals................



Did I just read Favre and damn good fundementals together in the same sentence?

[MJZiggy]

Apparently the guys are right: he doesn't know much about football.

[RashanGary]

So far Partial is the only guy who's made a reasonable arguement that seemed to be relatively objective in nature and based on last year not reputiation. I think he was a little influenced (believing Favre throws rockets so believing he saw it, not simply observing it). Still, it had more to do with quick release and a wide array of skills than it did with brute physical skill (arm and strength, although he was still good in those departments as well) and I think that is a very good description of old man Favre. It's not a very good description of young man Favre (the one who's reputation blinded people from seeing the good decision maker, fundementally sound, protypical smart QB) that played last year.

[bobblehead]

Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman

This list is laughable.

I would laugh if I thought he was joking.

he has to be joking... his "Special" qb have hardly played and his "very good" qb's have ben, matt, tom, donavan and brett on the list... superbowl qb's
let's not forget, brett is the only 3 time mvp ever

Without getting into the rest of the arguement, for the second time....He is talking ARM STRENGTH and nothing else. And you deleted the top two from the list which makes the quote completely pointless, or at a bare minimum changes the point.

[bobblehead]

Special:
Jay Cutler
Jamarcus Russell



Very good:
Carson Palmer
Ben Rothlisburger
Alex Smith
Jason Cambell
Matt Hasselback
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Donavan McNabb
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Tavaris Jackson
Aaron Rodgers
JP Losman



There is a very small, elite class that can throw harder than anyone else. Favre used to be the leader of that pack, now he's right with the pack. Rodgers is right with the pack too. There should be very little drop off in arm strength. I've watched the Dallas game several times and Rodgers threw the ball just as hard as Favre, if not harder. Don't ask me though, Jennings and Jones probably know more than any of us and they say Rodgers throws harder.

I know this hurts people like someone was questioning their religion, but Favre is a human being and like all other people, his physical skills eroded from age 24 to age 39. It's just part of this reality thing we live in. Any one of you (or all of you) can join me if you let down your defenses enough to see it.


To be honest this list destroys your credibility; there are a lot of sub par arms on your very good list that Favre is well above. If you actually think that is accurate it's hard to even begin reasoning.

IMO hasselback is the only one who has a subpar arm on that list. I can't say about campbell because I don't recall him, I watched a game or two of his, but didn't notice him really. Every other arm on that list is above average, and the top 2 are probably the strogest dart shooters in the league at this point. I would even go so far as saying Favre, Losman, and McNabb are a tad above the rest in the next list, but not enough to matter anymore.

[GrnBay007]

Lucky us. We went from having the strongest arm in the NFL to having the strongest arm in the NFL. We beat all odds on that one.

I just really need to know.......are you basing all this on the Dallas game?
Other than the Dallas game how could you possibly have anything to base this statement on. AND, if you are making a comment on a QB's future based on one game, I'd say you are kinda out there.

Is it really so bad to be a Packer fan and taking the wait and see stance? Seems all you want to do is dog Favre and pimp Rodgers. Trust me, no one thinks less of those that are hopeful but skeptical this year....it's natural.

[RashanGary]

Young Favre

Dumb
Can't read defenses
Doesn't fully understand offense
Fun teammate
Humble
Took a lot of sacks and got up smiling
Believed in his guys
Bad decision maker
Legendary arm
Strong as a horse and able to break tackles
Tough as a hell



Old Favre

Good footwork (except when needing to pass while avoiding rush)
Very good ablity to read defenses presnap
Very good understanding of offense
Very good arm (In the pack of good NFL arms, not above the pack at all)
Strong enough to avoid some tackles and escape when needed
Affraid of contact and rarely took sacks (even when he should have at times)
Knew how to make all of the throws (touch and hard ones when needed)
Average teammate
Stubborn
Ornary



All in all, Favre became teh complete QB. My biggest complaint was that I don't think he really wanted to play at the end. He'd rather be at home than practicing with his teammates. I understand, but some guys want to be there and those are the guys I like to watch. He did everything well and still had a few of the classic Favreisms (like such as:) ability to fall back and throw in face of pass rush and ability to sense pressure and avoid the hit while making a play. He wasn't the bad ass Favre of yesteryear that went out and just threw it through the wall. He was more like Brady, Manning and Rothlisburger in that he did it the way it was taught more often than not. I'm a big audio clip guy and a resounding theme from opposing coaches was that MM really got him to play within hismelf and that he's really become a more sound QB. He was a different QB, similar to a pitcher who got by on 99 mph stuff but developed into an all around stud in his mid 30's. It's really not an insult. It's reality.

[RashanGary]

I just really need to know.......are you basing all this on the Dallas game?
Other than the Dallas game how could you possibly have anything to base this statement on. AND, if you are making a comment on a QB's future based on one game, I'd say you are kinda out there.

Is it really so bad to be a Packer fan and taking the wait and see stance? Seems all you want to do is dog Favre and pimp Rodgers. Trust me, no one thinks less of those that are hopeful but skeptical this year....it's natural.

I'm basing it on what Jennings and Jones said as well as what I saw in the Dallas game. And for the record, I'm not insulting anyone. I just think people are going to be surpised at how well this offense can function without #4.

[GrnBay007]

Old Favre

Average teammate
Stubborn
Ornary



Yeah, it's aways the average teammate type that are stubborn and ornery that grab their fellow teammates and throw them over their shoulder in celebration. :roll:

[GrnBay007]

And for the record, I'm not insulting anyone.


Well, yeah...you have been insulting a HOF GB QB lately. Not sure why. Be happy we witnessed his play on our team....how many fans out there wish they could have.


I just think people are going to be surpised at how well this offense can function without #4.

I hope they do too.......and they should!! The O is set up for Rodgers far better then it was for Favre for how many of the last years.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm basing it on what Jennings and Jones said as well as what I saw in the Dallas game. And for the record, I'm not insulting anyone. I just think people are going to be surpised at how well this offense can function without #4.

For the record, you did insult people with the Favre worship and take it like a man comments. These same receivers said Favre still had one of the strongest arms in the league last year. His coach and Troy Aikman also said the same thing. So, you'll mix and match when you'll believe their comments. Like I said, ARod may have a comparable arm. Maybe he has a howitzer. Maybe they are just pumping him up because they know the pressure he's under. It's not like a player has never done that.

Personally, I think you have selective memory on Favre's arm strength. I know you're a big Ted Thompson guy (I've become one also), and the pro-Favre posters have often been the Thompson bashers, but it is okay to be cool with both guys. Did Favre do everything perfectly? No, but he was one of the best QBs in the league in probably 90% of the seasons he played (last year included). He definitely still had good arm strength--much better than average. On the other hand, Thompson is doing a good job also. I'm hopeful that ARod will take the reigns and we won't miss a beat, but it's possible he isn't the answer. We don't know. Personally, I just hope the guy stays healthy--because I think we'll be fine if he does.

[MJZiggy]

I'm basing it on what Jennings and Jones said as well as what I saw in the Dallas game. And for the record, I'm not insulting anyone. I just think people are going to be surpised at how well this offense can function without #4.

For the record, you did insult people with the Favre worship and take it like a man comments. These same receivers said Favre still had one of the strongest arms in the league last year. His coach and Troy Aikman also said the same thing. So, you'll mix and match when you'll believe their comments. Like I said, ARod may have a comparable arm. Maybe he has a howitzer. Maybe they are just pumping him up because they know the pressure he's under. It's not like a player has never done that.

Personally, I think you have selective memory on Favre's arm strength. I know you're a big Ted Thompson guy (I've become one also), and the pro-Favre posters have often been the Thompson bashers, but it is okay to be cool with both guys. Did Favre do everything perfectly? No, but he was one of the best QBs in the league in probably 90% of the seasons he played (last year included). He definitely still had good arm strength--much better than average. On the other hand, Thompson is doing a good job also. I'm hopeful that ARod will take the reigns and we won't miss a beat, but it's possible he isn't the answer. We don't know. Personally, I just hope the guy stays healthy--because I think we'll be fine if he does. :bclap: :bclap:

[Partial]

Good point, Partial. I don't know if I agree that Favre still throws and elite level laser, but his quick release, strong arm (not elite at all), damn good fundementals and top tier decision making made him great last year. Early in his career it was his rocket arm and brute strength that allowed him to get away from defenders. The Favre last year was a very different QB of the Favre 15 years ago but similarly effective. Rodgers is going ot have to play more like the 39 year old Favre than the 24 year old Favre because Rodgers just doesn't have the phsyical skills of a young Favre. He might be a step up from the old Favre physically though. His teammates seem to think so as well so it's not that far fetched.

You're crazy. He can throw a laser as hard as anyone can.

[Partial]

So far Partial is the only guy who's made a reasonable arguement that seemed to be relatively objective in nature and based on last year not reputiation. I think he was a little influenced (believing Favre throws rockets so believing he saw it, not simply observing it). Still, it had more to do with quick release and a wide array of skills than it did with brute physical skill (arm and strength, although he was still good in those departments as well) and I think that is a very good description of old man Favre. It's not a very good description of young man Favre (the one who's reputation blinded people from seeing the good decision maker, fundementally sound, protypical smart QB) that played last year.

My argument goes against what you're saying. Favre has a cannon. No way to dispute that. Put him on a radar gun and he is probably the fastest or near the fastest. I doubt he throws it the farthest, but I bet he puts more velocity on a ball going 30 yards then anyone.

[Bretsky]

I'm basing it on what Jennings and Jones said as well as what I saw in the Dallas game. And for the record, I'm not insulting anyone. I just think people are going to be surpised at how well this offense can function without #4.

For the record, you did insult people with the Favre worship and take it like a man comments. These same receivers said Favre still had one of the strongest arms in the league last year. His coach and Troy Aikman also said the same thing. So, you'll mix and match when you'll believe their comments. Like I said, ARod may have a comparable arm. Maybe he has a howitzer. Maybe they are just pumping him up because they know the pressure he's under. It's not like a player has never done that.

Personally, I think you have selective memory on Favre's arm strength. I know you're a big Ted Thompson guy (I've become one also), and the pro-Favre posters have often been the Thompson bashers, but it is okay to be cool with both guys. Did Favre do everything perfectly? No, but he was one of the best QBs in the league in probably 90% of the seasons he played (last year included). He definitely still had good arm strength--much better than average. On the other hand, Thompson is doing a good job also. I'm hopeful that ARod will take the reigns and we won't miss a beat, but it's possible he isn't the answer. We don't know. Personally, I just hope the guy stays healthy--because I think we'll be fine if he does.

what he said

kudos to HW