Woodson/Harris : near bottom of NFL as CB tandem

[motife]

The best

Ronde Barber/Phillip Buchanon: Barber had a fantastic 2007 season with a 4.9 YPA and a 44.9 percent success rate, but it's not like Buchanon simply rode on Barber's superb metric coattails. Buchanon posted a terrific 6.4 YPA and nearly matched Barber's success percentage with a rate of 44.8.

To put their success marks another way, consider that there were only 64 successful plays against Barber and Buchanon all season. That means that, on average, the other team's offense could expect only two positive plays to each of its wideouts on any given Sunday.

Trumaine McBride/Charles Tillman: As good as Nathan Vasher is, this combination's No. 2 showing in this metric illustrates that Chicago did not miss Vasher nearly as much as is generally thought. If Vasher comes back fully healthy this year, this cornerback trio could make a strong case for being the best in the NFL.

Jabari Greer/Terrence McGee: This tandem's statistics provide some proof that the Bills are quietly building one of the best secondaries in the league. If Buffalo can at the very least develop Leodis McKelvin, Reggie Corner and/or Ashton Youboty into an effective nickel/dime duo, there won't be a real coverage weakness for any offense to target.

The worst

Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly: The buzz going into the 2007 season was that Bailey and Bly might be the best starting battery around, but it didn't turn out anywhere near that way. A lot of this poor performance was on Bly's shoulders, as evidenced by his 8.8 YPA, but Bailey has to take some of blame as well. His 7.8 YPA was his worst since 2005. Both will have to improve if Denver's defense is going to see a turnaround in 2008.

Al Harris/Charles Woodson: Harris landed a starting spot in the Pro Bowl, and Woodson had a lot of support for a Hawaii trip as well, but their combined totals placed them 27th in this category. Most of that showing was the result of Harris' 9.7 YPA, a number that begs the question as to why he was given that starting Pro Bowl spot in the first place.

2007 Team Cornerbacks Net Att Net Yds YPA
Tampa Bay Ronde Barber/Phillip Buchanon 116 671 5.8
Washington Fred Smoot/Shawn Springs 158 928 5.9
Chicago Trumaine McBride/Charles Tillman 133 808 6.1
Buffalo Jabari Greer/Terrence McGee 169 1,084 6.4
Miami Will Allen/Michael Lehan 129 832 6.4
Cleveland Leigh Bodden/Eric Wright 179 1,226 6.8
Seattle Kelly Jennings/Marcus Trufant 206 1,426 6.9
Detroit Fernando Bryant/Travis Fisher 132 926 7.0
Dallas Anthony Henry/Terence Newman/Jacques Reeves 231 1,630 7.1
Houston Fred Bennett/DeMarcus Faggins/Dunta Robinson 156 1,111 7.1
Indianapolis Kelvin Hayden/Marlin Jackson 105 748 7.1
Pittsburgh Ike Taylor/Deshea Townsend 180 1,329 7.4
Cincinnati Leon Hall/Johnathan Joseph/Deltha O'Neal 232 1,759 7.6
Carolina Chris Gamble/Ken Lucas 130 988 7.6
San Francisco Nate Clements/Walt Harris 168 1,280 7.6
San Diego Antonio Cromartie/Drayton Florence/Quentin Jammer 203 1,565 7.7
Philadelphia Sheldon Brown/Lito Sheppard 144 1,119 7.8
Arizona Eric Green/Rod Hood/Antrel Rolle 222 1,741 7.8
Tennessee Cortland Finnegan/Nick Harper 171 1,346 7.9
Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha/Stanford Routt 90 715 7.9
N.Y. Jets David Barrett/Hank Poteat/Darrelle Revis 182 1,462 8.0
N.Y. Giants Sam Madison/Aaron Ross 132 1,065 8.1
Jacksonville Rashean Mathis/Brian Williams 140 1,148 8.2
New England Ellis Hobbs/Asante Samuel 163 1,359 8.3
Denver Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly 139 1,162 8.4
Atlanta DeAngelo Hall/Chris Houston 140 1,174 8.4
Green Bay Al Harris/Charles Woodson 131 1,123 8.6
Minnesota Cedric Griffin/Marcus McCauley/Antoine Winfield 214 1,894 8.9
St. Louis Ron Bartell/Fakhir Brown 142 1,268 8.9
Kansas City Ty Law/Patrick Surtain 115 1,050 9.1
Baltimore Corey Ivy/Chris McAlister 118 1,123 9.5
New Orleans Jason David/Mike McKenzie 153 1,511 9.9

Glossary of terms

The word "tandem" technically means this should include only two players per team, but in a number of cases, injuries forced more than two players to split the starting spots. Because of this, I set the qualifying mark for this analysis at eight starts.

This did mean that in a couple of instances, a team had a nickel cornerback who started a few games at the nickel spot and a few others at one of the standard spots and accordingly ended up being listed as a starter. However, this beat the alternate method of using the attempt mark, as that would have included many more nickel backs as starters and, if the bar were set high enough, might have excluded some starters such as Nnamdi Asomugha (who had only 35 passes thrown his way).

As was the case in the rest of this series, the yardage totals include "pass in the air" penalty attempts and yards (i.e., penalty yards from pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact, etc., have been added to each player's yardage stats).

KC Joyner, aka the Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His core coverage metrics for all skill-position players and cornerbacks will be available in the ESPN Fantasy Football Magazine, which will be released this summer. His 2008 releases, "Scientific Football 2008" and "Blindsided: Why The Left Tackle is Overrated and Other Contrarian Football Thoughts," are available for preorder. For more, check out KC's Web site, www.thefootballscientist.com.

[PackFan#1]

The numbers are misleading. The top 3 pairs play in Cover 2 schemes. Cover 2 was designed to eliminate the long passes.

Guys like Woodson, Harris, Bly and Champ are man to man corners. They are all shut down corners. It's easier to complete passes against man than zone.

[Jimx29]

glancing at the title got me wondering what woody harrelson has to do with GB :doh:

[falco]

lets not fret, tramon williams is a god and will earn a starting spot soon - we got a lot of depth behind those two guys.

[Joemailman]

Not many teams put both their corners out on an island as much as the Packers do. Meaningless stats.

[packinpatland]

Seems odd...............to have gotten so far last year with corners that were 27th???? BS!

[mraynrand]

Maybe this is a good time to paraphrase Ted Thompson during the draft: "Don't fall in love with numbers so much, just pick guys who can play"

[SkinBasket]

Articles like this are written by interns trying to break into the business. It's like if I took a selective stat, say... Madtown hasn't had sex with a woman for 6 consecutive Tuesdays, and then offered that as concrete proof that he's gay.

[Partial]

weren't they rated as the best duo per the metrics the previous year?

[bobblehead]

Articles like this are written by interns trying to break into the business. It's like if I took a selective stat, say... Madtown hasn't had sex with a woman for 6 consecutive Tuesdays, and then offered that as concrete proof that he's gay.

Then someone who only skims an article starts stating as fact that mad is gay....I read it on the internet, it must be true.

[packers11]

sportsline.com

Oakland's CB tandem No. 1? Insiders rank five better

DeAngelo Hall is wrong.

When the Oakland cornerback said in an ESPN.com interview that the Raiders had the best set of corners in the league, he erred. The Raiders aren't the best at anything unless, of course, you're talking about losing.

Their 19-61 record the past five years is the worst in the league.

As for their cornerbacks, they should make for a good tandem, and, yes, they could wind up being one of the league's best.

I said could. Because while Nnamdi Asomugha is terrific, Hall is erratic and unreliable -- a talented player who thinks he's better than he is and who is coming off two subpar seasons.

"He's the Chad Johnson of defense," said one NFL assistant. "He's too far gone to know he's gone."

Plus, he hasn't played a down in Oakland, so there's no yardstick here. All I know is the Raiders better hope Hall plays as tough as he talks.

"The only way the Raiders are the best pair of cornerbacks," said an AFC defensive coordinator, "is when Hall is doing the evaluating. It's like he's a self-proclaimed Muhammad Ali.

"But Oakland has its cornerbacks playing man-to-man most of the game, and that's tough. So you're going to notice them, just as you're going to notice cornerbacks in schemes that depend more on that position than in defenses like Indianapolis, Tampa Bay or Chicago."

Still, Hall and Asomugha are not in a league of their own. Not yet anyway, though one secondary coach conceded that "if Hall plays to his potential and (Asomugha) has a good year they might be the best."

And that got me to thinking: What's the competition? What are the tandems Hall and Asomugha are trying to catch? And where is the company they will try to keep?

Read on.

Green Bay Packers

Charles Woodson deserved better last season. Before suffering a toe injury, he was the Packers' top defensive back and one of the top defenders anywhere. Yet somehow he was left off the Pro Bowl team.

Big mistake.

So Woodson isn't as fast as he once was. He still can cover speed receivers, and he knows how to find the football. A year ago he recovered a fumble and returned it for the game-clinching touchdown against Washington. Then he picked off a pass against Kansas City and took it to the end zone.

"With Woodson and Al Harris," said a player personnel director, "you're getting veteran, talented leadership. Both are on the downsides of their careers, but both are still scary to face."

Ah, yes, Al Harris. I almost forgot. He was named to the Pro Bowl, and he has been solid for years. He and Woodson make a compelling case for numero uno -- provided, of course, Woodson stays healthy.

OK, so there's the age thing, too. Woodson turns 32 this season and Harris 34, and that's an issue. But they're hardly The Over the Hill Gang.

"The way (critics) look at people who are 31," Woodson said last year, "it's like me and Al are prehistoric."

Maybe they should talk to Green Bay's opponents.


San Diego Chargers
The difference-maker here is Antonio Cromartie, now entering his third season. Most observers will tell you that Quentin Jammer, Cromartie's partner, hasn't lived up to pre-draft expectations and is little more than an ordinary-to-good cornerback.

But Cromartie is different. Antonio Cromartie is an All-Pro waiting to happen.

"He's probably one year away from joining (Champ) Bailey as one of the league's special players," said an AFC personnel director. "He has speed, instincts and youth. I don't expect him to have 10 interceptions again, but I do expect him to get better, which means he pushes Bailey as the best at his position."

Cromartie last year led the league in interceptions, and he didn't start until the second half of the season. He has great ball instincts. He's quick. He's fast. And he's a game-breaker, with skeptics urged to cue up his interception return in San Diego's playoff defeat of Indianapolis.

"To me," said our player personnel director, "Jammer is just a guy. But Cromartie has no holes. The sky is the limit for him.

"Even though Jammer never lived up his draft hype, he's a good complement to (Cromartie). You're talking about tandems, right? That means you include Cromartie. This has to be one of the best."


Denver Broncos
Champ Bailey is still the platinum bar of cornerbacks, the standard by which others are measured, and I don't care if you buy into it or not. Most GMs, coaches and personnel directors do, and that's good enough for me.

"He's an elite player," said one general manager. "He not only makes all the plays; he makes whoever plays with him better."

That would be Dre' Bly, and there's nothing extraordinary about him other than he takes too many risks ("for every five plays he makes, he'll miss on two others," said one GM). But pair him with Bailey, and, suddenly, the conversation changes.

"Dre' Bly is nothing better than OK," said an AFC offensive assistant, "but having him with Champ Bailey makes him look better than he is."

Yes, Bailey was hurt last year. He still was second-team All-Pro. That should tell you something. So should this: He has been chosen to eight consecutive Pro Bowls and four straight All-Pro teams.

"The guy is special," a pro personnel director said. "There's no downside to him."


Dallas Cowboys
With the addition of Pacman Jones, the Cowboys have the "wow factor" owner Jerry Jones craves. Only -- who knows? -- it might be, "Wow, I can't believe he got arrested again."

That is one reason experts hedge on the Cowboys. With Jones and Terence Newman in the same secondary, Dallas seems to be equipped to defend itself against Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning, who shredded the Cowboys for seven TDs (including the playoffs) last season.

"Newman is a good, solid corner," said an AFC player personnel director, "but I don't consider him special. Pacman has special qualities, but he's a ding-a-ling. He's a better player than Bly, but he will take the same chances. Yes, he makes spectacular plays, but he also gives up big plays."

When Jones was with Tennessee he was more effective as a returner than as a cornerback. In fact, the Titans were a better defense with Nick Harper at corner than they were with Jones.

You can look it up: In 2006 they had the 27th-ranked pass defense; last year they were 10th.

I'm not blaming that on Pacman, but at the very least he was a factor. Harper isn't as talented, but he is more consistent -- and he proved it last season.

Nevertheless, expectations are high in Dallas, where fans believe Jones' addition could allow the Cowboys to be more aggressive on defense. Maybe, but keep this in mind: He hasn't suited up for a game in 18 months.

"It makes you wonder if he's the same player," said one scout.


Philadelphia Eagles
A year ago the Eagles had 11 interceptions and 19 takeaways, good for dead last in both categories. That must change, and it will -- primarily because the club hired former New England star Asante Samuel as a cornerback.

Samuel is a ballhawk who pulled down 16 interceptions in two years and returned three more for touchdowns in the playoffs, tying an NFL record.

Say no more about what he can do for Philadelphia. The Eagles' defense didn't produce one TD off a return in 2007.

"My favorite defensive back in the league is Asante Samuel," said Giants wide receiver David Tyree, "basically because he can do everything."

So the Eagles noticed. Samuel intercepted them twice last season, including one he returned for a 40-yard touchdown, and was a member of the team that defeated Philadelphia in Super Bowl XXXIX.

"When you have an opportunity to get the best one in the business then you need to look at that," said coach Andy Reid.

Samuel will be paired with Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard will be the first cornerback off the bench. Sheppard is a two-time Pro Bowl pick. Brown should have been named to a Pro Bowl but was not. Samuel is an All-Pro.

DeAngelo Hall, you have company.

[texaspackerbacker]

The numbers are misleading. The top 3 pairs play in Cover 2 schemes. Cover 2 was designed to eliminate the long passes.

Guys like Woodson, Harris, Bly and Champ are man to man corners. They are all shut down corners. It's easier to complete passes against man than zone.

When you're right, you're right, Tank/PF#1. Good analysis.

[Guiness]

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

[CaliforniaCheez]

Having to fight with lawyers all the time I have learned to pull obscure stats on them and make mountains out of molehills.

It doesn't make them less true.

Just think where Harris and Carrol would rank.

One of the things Thompson is doing is setting up the team so if any starter wants to walk for big money there is someone ready to take their place.

Starting next year Woodson's contract gets much more expensive.

[packers11]

Starting next year Woodson's contract gets much more expensive.

Wrong... T.T. front loaded the contract... even on his last year, that is not that much for a cornerback...

4/26/2006: Signed a seven-year, $52 million contract. The deal included a $4 million signing bonus and $10.5 million in first-year guarantees.

2008: $3.25 million,
2009: $4 million,
2010: $5 million,
2011: $5.5 million,
2012: $6.5 million,
2013: Free Agent

[DonHutson]

Articles like this are written by interns trying to break into the business. It's like if I took a selective stat, say... Madtown hasn't had sex with a woman for 6 consecutive Tuesdays, and then offered that as concrete proof that he's gay.

Then someone who only skims an article starts stating as fact that mad is gay....I read it on the internet, it must be true.

There's a lot to read there, but I guess the main point is that Mad's gay? Well, maybe he'll prefer to have Harris and Woodson on the bottom then.

At least on Tuesdays. :wink:

[mraynrand]

The numbers are misleading. The top 3 pairs play in Cover 2 schemes. Cover 2 was designed to eliminate the long passes.

Guys like Woodson, Harris, Bly and Champ are man to man corners. They are all shut down corners. It's easier to complete passes against man than zone.

When you're right, you're right, Tank/PF#1. Good analysis.

It's easier to complete passes against man than zone? I thought the whole point of cover two was to limit the big play, and help protect corners that aren't so great in coverage (zone in general does that). Man coverage risks giving up huge plays - that's why you need a good pass rush with it. Cover two will allow the shorter completions, so the stats might show a lower average yards/completion (and likely per attempt I would think) than man.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Starting next year Woodson's contract gets much more expensive.

Wrong... T.T. front loaded the contract... even on his last year, that is not that much for a cornerback...

4/26/2006: Signed a seven-year, $52 million contract. The deal included a $4 million signing bonus and $10.5 million in first-year guarantees.

2008: $3.25 million,
2009: $4 million,
2010: $5 million,
2011: $5.5 million,
2012: $6.5 million,
2013: Free Agent


At the time it seemed like a three year deal. The out years got more expensive with roster bonuses and other add ons that made it seem like an interim deal until the next guy could be drafted.

At the moment I can't find the details only this link:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=418872

There is more than base salaries involved.

[red]

these numbers don't take into account that harris is a shut down corner. there just weren't that many passes completed against him. even though he was usually covering #1's

if a guy gives up only 10 completions in a year for 100 yards he gives up a 10 yard average

now if a guy gives up 100 passes for 900 yards over a year he gets a 9.0 average

according to this analysis the guy that gave up 900 yards had the better year, even though the other guy had a much much better year

these stats are just worthless unless you somehow take into account the amount of completion per passing attempts against them

maybe patler, if he's still around, can give some hard numbers

[Guiness]

Also interesting is the incredible varriance in attempts made. This can be for many reasons of course. A high number of attempts can mean a poor secondary...it can also mean your team was generally ahead! Same with a low number of attempts - a good secondary, or maybe your run D sucked!


2007 Team Cornerbacks Net Att Net Yds YPA
Tampa Bay Ronde Barber/Phillip Buchanon 116 671 5.8
These two are a good pair, and yes, the coverage scheme helps.


Indianapolis Kelvin Hayden/Marlin Jackson 105 748 7.1
Don't know why so low here? Teams should have generally been playing catch-up. Don't know much about this pair, are they that good?


Miami Will Allen/Michael Lehan 129 832 6.4
Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha/Stanford Routt 90 715 7.9
Two of the lowest - I'm guessing cause the other squad was always up by 2TD's by the second quarter!


Minnesota Cedric Griffin/Marcus McCauley/Antoine Winfield 214 1,894 8.9
Dallas Anthony Henry/Terence Newman/Jacques Reeves 231 1,630 7.1
San Diego Antonio Cromartie/Drayton Florence/Quentin Jammer 203 1,565 7.7
I think the run D meant teams threw alot against this bunch.


Cincinnati Leon Hall/Johnathan Joseph/Deltha O'Neal 232 1,759 7.6
Deltha's still in the league??? I'm guessing everyone threw against these guys...because they could!


Baltimore Corey Ivy/Chris McAlister 118 1,123 9.5
Ed Reed likely had as much to do with the low number of attempts as these two.

[HarveyWallbangers]

2007 Team Cornerbacks Net Att Net Yds YPA
Tampa Bay Ronde Barber/Phillip Buchanon 116 671 5.8

These two are a good pair, and yes, the coverage scheme helps.


Indianapolis Kelvin Hayden/Marlin Jackson 105 748 7.1

Don't know why so low here? Teams should have generally been playing catch-up. Don't know much about this pair, are they that good?

Ronde is still decent, but he didn't play at Pro Bowl level. Buchanon was been a bust since he got into the league--until last year. He was decent last year.

Hayden and Jackson are an outstanding, young pair of corners. Both had at least solid years last year and maybe better.

[HarveyWallbangers]

USA Today ranks Al the 4th best corner today. Herb Adderley received the 8th most votes for best corner in the Super Bowl era.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-06-22-top-five-cornerbacks_N.htm?csp=34

Al gets the hype, but Chuck was better in 2007. Al was mint in 2006, but he's getting the pub a year late--which tends to happen.

BTW, Mason Crosby got some votes for best K. Jan Stenerud got the 3rd most votes for best K in the Super Bowl ear.

[packrulz]

Stats can be made to say whatever you want but I agree with the article that Woody and Harris are getting old, they're still good but declining in skills, they have maybe 2 years left. Plaxico Burress dominated Harris in the NFC Championship game and the Packers need badly for Lee and Williams to step up and prove they can start. I think TT should draft 2 CB's high every year until he can find their replacements. Safety is a concern also, but Bigby/Culver/Rouse are beginning to step up.

[vince]

When stats are presented objectively, they're illuminating. The question then becomes, "Which stats are correct?"

Here's a statistical analysis of the various CB tandems in the NFL. Green Bay ranked as the seventh best tandem last year. These stats indicate lower number of completions and fewer yards than those in the original post.

Shutdown Cornerback Stats (http://www.twominutewarning.com/cb2007.htm)

I tried copying the table into the post, but it looks like shit - and it's too much work to align.

Anyone know how to use the "Code" function to align tables like this one?

[sharpe1027]

When they compiled those stats, how do they select who gets credited for the yards on a catch?

For the Packers I imagine it would generally be pretty easy, mostly man coverage, but to who do you charge the yardage to when, for example, a WR cuts accross the middle passing through two or three different coverage zones?

[vince]

In the Two Minute Warning compilation, the stats reflect opponents' yardage from their #1 and #2 receivers, thus eliminating the potential subjective assignment of which DB is "credited" with the yardage. The assumption is that the starting corners match up with the top 2 receivers... That is mostly true in the case of man-dominated coverage schemes, and eliminates the bias in determining who is responsible for zone coverage in the cases you mentioned sharpe.

I couldn't determine exactly how the Football Scientist came up with his stats, but those results do appear to be biased in favor of zone dominated coverages.

[sharpe1027]

The assumption is that the starting corners match up with the top 2 receivers

This assumption isn't even true for all man-coverage schemes. The stat, in isolation, is pretty meaningless, IMHO. For example, with a cover-2 type zone, YPA would seem to reflect your saftey play more than your CB play...

[vince]

Point taken in that it may not perfectly reflect the starting corners' production or lack thereof, but the stat is far from meaningless. Here's the preface to the stat table.


Shutdown Cornerbacks
The ability to limit the big plays to an opposing team's top two receivers has been a good indicator of Super Bowl quality teams over the recent years.
While the "shutdown CB" label may be overly simplistic, the following stats do detail the respective strength and weakness of teams in this area.

The top 11 teams in this statistic were 11 of the 12 playoff teams last year. That's meaningful.

[sharpe1027]

Point taken in that it may not perfectly reflect the starting corners' production or lack thereof, but the stat is far from meaningless. Here's the preface to the stat table.


Shutdown Cornerbacks
The ability to limit the big plays to an opposing team's top two receivers has been a good indicator of Super Bowl quality teams over the recent years.
While the "shutdown CB" label may be overly simplistic, the following stats do detail the respective strength and weakness of teams in this area.

Good QB pressure can be limit yardage per attempt more than CB play. Schemes, safety play and game situations also play a huge role.

As staed in the preface, the stat has more meaning in terms of the strength and weakness of teams. Even so, one would expect a bump-and-run type man-to-man defense to generally going to give up more big plays, whereas, many zone defenses would give up more underneath and less deep....

[Fritz]

What's all this talk of statistics and cover two versus press coverage and YPA? All I know is that I read that Mad is gay.

[Guiness]

Mad is gay? Wow, I never woulda guess, what with his Pendejo avatar and all. Of course, those guys like to wear leather chaps...


(there, that should be enough mentions of MTP IS GAY to get some hits on google) :flm:

[Patler]

In the Two Minute Warning compilation, the stats reflect opponents' yardage from their #1 and #2 receivers, thus eliminating the potential subjective assignment of which DB is "credited" with the yardage. The assumption is that the starting corners match up with the top 2 receivers...


So they replace a subjective evaluation with a flat out guess without so much as even looking at the play? That's ridiculous.

Following that logic the best starting wide receivers can be determined by when and where the starting cornerbacks make tackles, regardless of who they tackle.

[LL2]

Stats can be made to say whatever you want but I agree with the article that Woody and Harris are getting old, they're still good but declining in skills, they have maybe 2 years left. Plaxico Burress dominated Harris in the NFC Championship game and the Packers need badly for Lee and Williams to step up and prove they can start. I think TT should draft 2 CB's high every year until he can find their replacements. Safety is a concern also, but Bigby/Culver/Rouse are beginning to step up.

I think the key is having Lee, Williams, Rouse, and Bigby step up, and to have Lee and Williams ready to replace Harris and Woodson. While Harris is good he was burned big time twice last year when it mattered most. The Dallas game and the Giants game Harris sucked and got burned all game long. If Lee can develop well enough during the season I hope he will bench Harris during games when he is getting burned.

[sharpe1027]

I think the key is having Lee, Williams, Rouse, and Bigby step up, and to have Lee and Williams ready to replace Harris and Woodson. While Harris is good he was burned big time twice last year when it mattered most. The Dallas game and the Giants game Harris sucked and got burned all game long. If Lee can develop well enough during the season I hope he will bench Harris during games when he is getting burned.

I agree with most of that. I don't know about benching him last year, he was far from the only CB to be burned by those WRs last year. T.O. is a top 5 WR when he shows up to play and Burress, when healthy, is a beast. I'm not sure we would have been better off with anyone else on our roster, but I agree that it is worth considering. If he drops off any more, someone better step up.

[Guiness]

I think the key is having Lee, Williams, Rouse, and Bigby step up, and to have Lee and Williams ready to replace Harris and Woodson. While Harris is good he was burned big time twice last year when it mattered most. The Dallas game and the Giants game Harris sucked and got burned all game long. If Lee can develop well enough during the season I hope he will bench Harris during games when he is getting burned.
I think the coaching, and lack of adjustments by them are as much to blame as Harris for him getting burned - by two of the physically stronger receivers in the game.

One of Harris's strengths is just that - his strength. His speed isn't, and never has been, great, but he's able to compensate for that by overpowering receivers. When he's matched up against someone who's stronger than him (both Plexico and TO are known to be very powerful) it causes problems. Guess what? If he was matched up against D. Boston, alarm bells would be going off then too.

[Gunakor]

I think the key is having Lee, Williams, Rouse, and Bigby step up, and to have Lee and Williams ready to replace Harris and Woodson. While Harris is good he was burned big time twice last year when it mattered most. The Dallas game and the Giants game Harris sucked and got burned all game long. If Lee can develop well enough during the season I hope he will bench Harris during games when he is getting burned.


Remember that Dallas game, Chuck didn't play due to a toe injury and Green Bay was playing a soft zone defense with nobody to press Crayton on the other side. While Harris got all the blame, I was consistently seeing TO run across the field thru LB and safety zones and beat them as well. When the ball was thrown to Harris' zone, Harris had one INT and should have had a second one - but the goddamn sideline ref standing farthest from the play whistled the play dead prematurely. I'd agree that Harris didn't have the greatest day of his career that day, but to blame him specifically for thier defensive struggles is a bit unfair. Again, Woodson wasn't even in a uniform and they weren't playing man coverage for the most part.