Better addition to the 2008 Packers

[RashanGary]

Boring off season.

[mission]

i voted reg

[falco]

i vote 25 year old tramon williams

where theres a t-will theres a way

[BF4MVP]

I'll take the 27 year old quarterback who threw 39 touchdown passes and only 13 INTs and won his second of three MVP awards...

Reg was as good a defensive player as there ever was, but I'll take the best QB in the league over the best DE in the league..Although the fact that I think so highly of Rodgers makes it a tough decision..

27-year-old Favre: 59.9%, 3,899 yards, 39 TD, 13 INT (Won Super Bowl)

27-year-old Montana: 64.5%, 3,910 yards, 26 TD, 12 INT

27-year-old Reggie: 133 tackles, 18 sacks (He's got the most impressive stats, but I'll take the quarterback.)

[Scott Campbell]

I took Reg too.

[falco]

i think it all depends - this team could desperately use a Reggie White on the d-line - but if Rodgers bombs, I'd much rather have a franchise QB

[Iron Mike]

I never saw Brett pick up Amp Lee and throw him. :P

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brett Favre at 27-years-old was playing some of the best QB that's ever been played. You always take a Hall of Fame QB in his prime over anybody else. Favre was putting up those numbers with young, unproven receivers , solid but not elite RBs, and just decent OL. (He did have some great TEs though.) It wasn't like he had Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, and Isaac Bruce in their primes. Or Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Dwight Clark, Roger Craig, etc.

[Bretsky]

Brett Favre at 27-years-old was playing some of the best QB that's ever been played. You always take a Hall of Fame QB in his prime over anybody else. Favre was putting up those numbers with young, unproven receivers , solid but not elite RBs, and just decent OL. (He did have some great TEs though.) It wasn't like he had Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, and Isaac Bruce in their primes. Or Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Dwight Clark, Roger Craig, etc.


:bclap:

[HarveyWallbangers]

:bclap:

Just think about how good Favre did last year. He was even better in those years, and I'd guess the talent around him was comparable. We had the #1 offense in the league in 1996, and the offense wasn't loaded with All-Pro talent. How easily some people forget just how awesome Brett was back then. Some might be too young to fully remember.

[Bretsky]

:bclap:

Just think about how good Favre did last year. He was even better in those years, and I'd guess the talent around him was comparable. We had the #1 offense in the league in 1996, and the offense wasn't loaded with All-Pro talent. How easily some people forget just how awesome Brett was back then. Some might be too young to fully remember.


Yup, and some choose to have selective memory

I hope AROD tears the NFL apart; but if he turns out to be soft and injury prone I bet he'll develop some pretty funny nicknames in here after all the AROD wagoning and anti-Favre stuff


Cheers,
B

[the_idle_threat]

I voted for Reggie. Put perhaps the most dominant DE to play the game---in his prime, no less---on the Packers' already strong defense, and Rex Grossman could quarterback this team to a Super Bowl win.

It would not matter that Al Harris might be getting old and the safeties are deficient in pass pro if the d-line gets the kind of pressure that Reggie, Kampy and Cullen Jenkins (rushing from the three technique) would get.

And I think Arod will be better than average---far better than Grossman---as long as he stays healthy. In fact, I think he might be a lot better than average. It's true that he hasn't faced live fire in the NFL, but he's been around long enough to know the offense very well and to have rapport with the receiving corps. Those factors will help him immensely, methinks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I voted for Reggie. Put perhaps the most dominant DE to play the game---in his prime, no less---on the Packers' already strong defense, and Rex Grossman could quarterback this team to a Super Bowl win.

Are you sure? Reggie White in his prime played for some damn good defenses (and great defensive lines) and had a solid QB in Randall Cunningham, and they didn't win the Super Bowl. It's a hell of a lot easier to game plan for a Hall of Fame DE than game plan for a Hall of Fame QB. Some of the best DEs in the game didn't win many Super Bowls (White won one, Bruce Smith won zero, Deacon Jones won zero). Most of the best QBs did--Dan Marino being the notable exception.

[the_idle_threat]

I voted for Reggie. Put perhaps the most dominant DE to play the game---in his prime, no less---on the Packers' already strong defense, and Rex Grossman could quarterback this team to a Super Bowl win.

Are you sure? Reggie White in his prime played for some damn good defenses (and great defensive lines) and had a solid QB in Randall Cunningham, and they didn't win the Super Bowl. It's a hell of a lot easier to game plan for a Hall of Fame DE than game plan for a Hall of Fame QB. Some of the best DEs in the game didn't win many Super Bowls (White won one, Bruce Smith won zero, Deacon Jones won zero). Most of the best QBs did--Dan Marino being the notable exception.

Yes I'm sure ... because we have absolutely no way of knowing. :D
I'm talking about putting Reggie on this team, not on the Phillies circa the late 80s.

Brett Favre was on this team last year and he didn't get it done. I don't believe he was so much better back then as opposed to last season---what he lost physically over the ten year span is offset at least in part by what he gained in knowledge and experience.

I think it will be a smaller step down than many people think from Favre to Rogers---again, if Rodgers stays healthy. Meanwhile (and I like Cullen Jenkins a lot), put Reggie in there instead of Cullen Jenkins, and the defense takes a huge step up.

[Pacopete4]

I think its pretty much a toss up. Can't compare offense to defense really but you need a very good QB on offense to succeed and you need a very good DE on defense if you want a good defense... so really, u gotta have both to win it in my opinion

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brett Favre was on this team last year and he didn't get it done. I don't believe he was so much better back then as opposed to last season---what he lost physically over the ten year span is offset at least in part by what he gained in knowledge and experience.

I'd disagree. Favre was better. If that Favre played with these WRs, he might have thrown for 50 TDs. The two biggest differences is that Favre could make something out of nothing with his scrambling ability. He was uncanny at doing that. The other difference is that I think older athletes almost played scared. They want that last hurray so much that it often takes away from their performance. I've seen it before. The younger Favre played with just a bit different mindset, and I think it was for the better. Now, this Favre played with a lot more patience, but in those MVP/Super Bowl years Holmgren had Brett playing that way also.

[Tarlam!]

I voted Favre.

2 people voted for neither Favre, nor White. Cretìns, the pair of you.

[3irty1]

I think anyone of these guys would put us over the top.

[woodbuck27]

:bclap:

Just think about how good Favre did last year. He was even better in those years, and I'd guess the talent around him was comparable. We had the #1 offense in the league in 1996, and the offense wasn't loaded with All-Pro talent. How easily some people forget just how awesome Brett was back then. Some might be too young to fully remember.


Yup, and some choose to have selective memory

I hope AROD tears the NFL apart; but if he turns out to be soft and injury prone I bet he'll develop some pretty funny nicknames in here after all the AROD wagoning and anti-Favre stuff


Cheers,
B

Yea. A lot of turncoats in this place. I'll cuddle up to these righteous posters for this exercise.

Well then... I'll ignore 'the fact' that your team MVP better be your QB overall in your teams season; as so many here really believe that we don't skip a beat or it even gets better with Aaron Rodgers. :)

Now the answer to the choice gets easy.

Reggie White.

[sheepshead]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

[The Leaper]

I'll take Reggie White, as the talent on our offense IMO is good enough to win a title. The last time I checked, Eli Manning just won a Super Bowl with a group of mostly stiffs on offense...because of a dominant DL.

Add a 27 year old Reggie to our defense, and it would probably be the best defense in the league.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What happens with ARod gets injured in week 2 and proves to be injury prone?

[Zool]

What happens with ARod gets injured in week 2 and proves to be injury prone?

What happens when he doesn't?

[HarveyWallbangers]

What happens with ARod gets injured in week 2 and proves to be injury prone?

What happens when he doesn't?

The point is people are assuming that ARod is going to be good and durable. I'll take the ridiculously durable Hall of Fame QB in his prime.

[3irty1]

The Packers rosters over the years are a who's who of legends. I expect new gods to emerge from the ashes of Favre and lead us to a string of championships. In the big city big money NFL of today the Packers are a beacon of football ideals. Our greatest Ally is Wisconsin herself which manifests in brutally cold winters and the unmatched undying love of her fans.

Kool-aid anyone?

[DonHutson]

The Packers rosters over the years are a who's who of legends. I expect new gods to emerge from the ashes of Favre and lead us to a string of championships. In the big city big money NFL of today the Packers are a beacon of football ideals. Our greatest Ally is Wisconsin herself which manifests in brutally cold winters and the unmatched undying love of her fans.

Kool-aid anyone?

Yes please!

[The Leaper]

What happens with ARod gets injured in week 2 and proves to be injury prone?

Your defense is still dominant...and you will have a veteran QB behind him at the #2 spot who can take advantage of the multitude of weapons we have on offense.

[The Leaper]

The point is people are assuming that ARod is going to be good and durable. I'll take the ridiculously durable Hall of Fame QB in his prime.

How many Super Bowls did that ridiculously durable HOF QB win without a stud defense led by someone like Reggie?

Defense wins championships...always has, always will. Even the recent wins of high powered offenses like St. Louis and Indy came on the back of very solid defensive performances. The Rams defense won the Super Bowl with a goal-line stop...and the Indy defense was clearly the better playing side of the ball in the Colts' title run.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The point is people are assuming that ARod is going to be good and durable. I'll take the ridiculously durable Hall of Fame QB in his prime.

How many Super Bowls did that ridiculously durable HOF QB win without a stud defense led by someone like Reggie?

This argument is moot--since neither guy one a title without the other. I'd argue Reggie's teams in Philadelphia (dominating defenses + Randall Cunningham, Mike Quick, Keith Jackson, etc. on offense) were more talented than the Packers before and after Reggie, but that would just be my opinion. It's also kind of a bad argument because Brett only played one year before Reggie got there. When Reggie left, Ray Rhodes came in to screw everything up. After that, Wolf left and the organization wasn't nearly at the same level. I really don't think they had a championship caliber team surrounding Brett after that. Last year's team was probably the most talented, but I'm not sure they come close to 13-3 without Brett. The 2002 team, I think, had a championship caliber offense before Tausch and Clifton got injured. Defense might have been just good enough.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Defense wins championships...always has, always will. Even the recent wins of high powered offenses like St. Louis and Indy came on the back of very solid defensive performances. The Rams defense won the Super Bowl with a goal-line stop...and the Indy defense was clearly the better playing side of the ball in the Colts' title run.

Are you saying you'd take a Hall of Fame DE over a Hall of Fame QB? Or are you saying that you have a lot of faith in ARod to play well and stay healthy?

[DonHutson]

Is this thread starting to remind anyone else of the old SNL Bear fan skits where they compare the merits of a team of mini-Ditkas vs. one led by Jesus Christ?

http://zembla.cementhorizon.com/archives/swerski.jpg

[3irty1]

Harvey is right as usual,

A great DE can't be a one man defense the way a QB can carry an offense. They both played on one of the greatest football teams ever assembled and both can be talked about as best player ever at their position but the defense didn't revolve around White.

[The Leaper]

Are you saying you'd take a Hall of Fame DE over a Hall of Fame QB? Or are you saying that you have a lot of faith in ARod to play well and stay healthy?

For THIS TEAM I'd take the HOF DE. Usually, you take the QB...but in our case right now, we have a very talented offense around the QB position, so we don't need a HOF QB to have an efficient offense. Meanwhile, the one thing preventing our defense from becoming elite is a consistent pass rush...which a Reggie in his prime would certainly offer. With a White on the roster, I suddenly am much less worried about Al Harris, Justin Harrell, etc.

This question pertains to the 2008 Packers...not any generic team in general.

In terms of ARod, it doesn't matter. I don't think the dropoff from Rodgers to a backup is going to be that severe if we find a capable veteran, which is what I expect Thompson to do.

[The Leaper]

This argument is moot--since neither guy one a title without the other.

OK, I'll grant you that.


I'd argue Reggie's teams in Philadelphia (dominating defenses + Randall Cunningham, Mike Quick, Keith Jackson, etc. on offense) were more talented than the Packers before and after Reggie, but that would just be my opinion.

Tough call. Philly's offense really wasn't that great. Cunningham was a runner at that point in his career...he sucked as a pocket QB in Philly, and that was a big reason why the Eagles could never get over the top. There also was that pesky Cowboys team that dominated the early 1990s thanks to the damn Vikings. The HOF QB Favre couldn't get past them either.

[mraynrand]

Is this thread starting to remind anyone else of the old SNL Bear fan skits where they compare the merits of a team of mini-Ditkas vs. one led by Jesus Christ?

http://zembla.cementhorizon.com/archives/swerski.jpg

Ya gadda goe wid da mini didkas. Geesus wood turn da odder cheek!

[the_idle_threat]

What happens with ARod gets injured in week 2 and proves to be injury prone?

Favre comes back. There are a ton of threads about this. :idea: :P So then we have Favre back at the helm, plus a flat out dominating defense. What's not to like?

[Brando19]

I never saw Brett pick up Amp Lee and throw him. :P

No, but we can't count the times we've seen Favre pick up Driver and run with him. 8-)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

Guess you don't watch much golf or basketball.

[Bretsky]

I don't think I've seen a more fierce competitor than Michael Jordan

[Cleft Crusty]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

Guess you don't watch much golf or basketball.

Cleft Crusty agrees. Woods and Jordan are and were absolute beasts; my own favorite competitors: Jimmy Connors, Chuck Bednarik, and Jim Thorpe.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

Guess you don't watch much golf or basketball.

Cleft Crusty agrees. Woods and Jordan are and were absolute beasts; my own favorite competitors: Jimmy Connors, Chuck Bednarik, and Jim Thorpe.

Agreed.

If we are talking tennis you can't leave out Sampras..incredible competitor...or Borg.

[Cleft Crusty]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

Guess you don't watch much golf or basketball.

Cleft Crusty agrees. Woods and Jordan are and were absolute beasts; my own favorite competitors: Jimmy Connors, Chuck Bednarik, and Jim Thorpe.

Agreed.

If we are talking tennis you can't leave out Sampras..incredible competitor...or Borg.

Anyone with a few years on them must remember the Sampras Puking match. If I knew the names of some of those Ironmen triathletes - particularly those who soiled themselves near the finish line, I'd include them as well

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Joe Montana is my best "QB of all time", maybe the best competitor in any sport I have ever seen.

Guess you don't watch much golf or basketball.

Cleft Crusty agrees. Woods and Jordan are and were absolute beasts; my own favorite competitors: Jimmy Connors, Chuck Bednarik, and Jim Thorpe.

Agreed.

If we are talking tennis you can't leave out Sampras..incredible competitor...or Borg.

Anyone with a few years on them must remember the Sampras Puking match. If I knew the names of some of those Ironmen triathletes - particularly those who soiled themselves near the finish line, I'd include them as well

Sampras: That was Davis Cup. I think it was U.S. OPen when he won a match and then he collapsed...whole body cramping.

Soiled: the only one i know about is Julie Moss...the woman who was leading the whole Hawaii ironman..only to collapse near the finish line and crawl to second place.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sampras: That was Davis Cup. I think it was U.S. OPen when he won a match and then he collapsed...whole body cramping

It was at the US Open when Pete tossed cookies. Came back from 2-1 down to win in 5 sets. Pete got sick a few times, but that's the most memorable one.