War on Drugs

[GoPackGo]

I think Nancy Reagan and her war on drugs meant well, but its time for the USA to admit defeat. Let states legalise drugs and watch their crime go down, their prisons become less crowded, and their court systems more efficient. Tax the drugs, sell them at drug stores without a prescription to adults. State taxes from drugs can go to state schools and improve them. Crime in the inner cities would go down. Police and the general public would be more safe.

discuss

[HarveyWallbangers]

Which drugs should be legalized? All of them?

[GoPackGo]

Which drugs should be legalized? All of them?

Definately all of them. Cigarettes are just as addicting as the worst drugs out there

[Tarlam!]

I have agreed with this view for 25 years.

[BallHawk]

The economic aspect of it makes sense. And I can understand the thinking of some that some druggies are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not.

However, you can't have it on all drugs. You're going to make it legal for meth addicts to ruin their childrens lives? For heroin and coke addicts to do the same?

Yes, you can make the arguement for things like LSD and Marijuana (those I think should be legal), but I don't see how you can make hardcore drugs legal. It's just too dangerous to the rest of society.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

At the very least we should start to decriminalize certain drugs.

[sheepshead]

I have agreed with this view for 25 years.

Well no shit you have, you're an addict.

[Oscar]

I've always thought making weed legal would be cool. Don't know bout the rest.. Spent a day at a treatment center a while back. Was asked to speak there about how I stopped drinking.. I spent most of the day talking to a heroin addict..That guy was going through a living hell. He was a guitar player as am I so we had that to talk about.. Wonder if he made it..

[GoPackGo]

However, you can't have it on all drugs. You're going to make it legal for meth addicts to ruin their childrens lives? For heroin and coke addicts to do the same?
Yes, you can make the arguement for things like LSD and Marijuana (those I think should be legal), but I don't see how you can make hardcore drugs legal. It's just too dangerous to the rest of society.

People who give drugs to their kids should be punished severely. Other than giving the drugs to the children, how would parents on drugs ruin their children lives?Some parents are on drugs right now, Illegally. If it was legal, maybe the people who need help would actually get it, instead of hiding it from everyone and getting stuck in a rut of drug abuse they can't get out of alone?

[The Leaper]

The only drug that might become legalized would be mary jane...and I doubt our prisons are overflowing with weed convicts.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The only drug that might become legalized would be mary jane...and I doubt our prisons are overflowing with weed convicts.

Like many things..you would be wrong on this as well.

Since 65 there have been 10 million arrests. There are approx 16K people in prison right now for MJ. 21k in the state prison system.

Currently one out 6 people in federal federal system are in for MJ related crimes..dealers, growers, habitual offenders (3rd strike issues). There are more people in prison right now for MJ than violent crimes.

Under the laws of fifteen states, you can get a life sentence for a nonviolent marijuana offense. And the average sentence for a convicted murder in this country is about six years. In the state of California, the average prison sentence for a convicted killer is about 3.3 years.

For example, in Montana you can get a life sentence for a first offense for growing one marijuana plant.

Lest anyone think this is just a repub issue...dems acted like tough repubs on this..dems caved in 84 and 86 to appear not soft on crime..and under Clinton prosecution went up hugely.

[Freak Out]

We in Alaska legalized weed years ago for personal use but the feds have always fought it and in certain cases local police as well.

Live free or die motherfuckers.

[MJZiggy]

Since 65 there have been 10 million arrests. There are approx 16K people in prison right now for MJ. 21k in the state prison system.

Currently one out 6 people in federal federal system are in for MJ related crimes..dealers, growers, habitual offenders (3rd strike issues). There are more people in prison right now for MJ than violent crimes.



I swear I had NOTHING to do with it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Since 65 there have been 10 million arrests. There are approx 16K people in prison right now for MJ. 21k in the state prison system.

Currently one out 6 people in federal federal system are in for MJ related crimes..dealers, growers, habitual offenders (3rd strike issues). There are more people in prison right now for MJ than violent crimes.



I swear I had NOTHING to do with it.

Ty isn't aware of what you do for work..Ty is slowly backing away from you with his hands up.

Ty's excuses:

1. I borrowed the car.
2. My buddy left it in the car
3. THese aren't my pants

[mraynrand]

I think we have to find a way to get Terror angry with Drugs - then, problem solved.

[the_idle_threat]

I can agree with this reasoning for marijuana, but I'm not so sure with harder drugs.

Someone very close to me was once addicted to cocaine, and told me that one use was enough to create instant addiction. The same thing happened to some of this person's friends who tried it, but not to others who tried it. Legalizing will make it more available* and less stigmatized for people who just want to try it once. My concern is this will make more addicts out of people who want to try it once and go in not realizing that for the most powerful drugs, one use can create addiction. The very last thing we need is more people saddled with addiction to drugs. Any addict with the self-awareness to know they're addicted would likely tell you they would rather not be addicted.

*Some may argue that even hard drugs are plenty available now, but I think they would be more readily available if legal. For example, right now I couldn't get cocaine even if I wanted it, because I don't have a connection. If I approach someone, they don't know if I'm a cop, and for that matter I don't know if they're an undercover cop. If cocaine was at the store, then everybody would have a connection.

[BallHawk]

However, you can't have it on all drugs. You're going to make it legal for meth addicts to ruin their childrens lives? For heroin and coke addicts to do the same?
Yes, you can make the arguement for things like LSD and Marijuana (those I think should be legal), but I don't see how you can make hardcore drugs legal. It's just too dangerous to the rest of society.

People who give drugs to their kids should be punished severely. Other than giving the drugs to the children, how would parents on drugs ruin their children lives?Some parents are on drugs right now, Illegally. If it was legal, maybe the people who need help would actually get it, instead of hiding it from everyone and getting stuck in a rut of drug abuse they can't get out of alone?

Knowing two families with parents that got into meth, I can confidently say that it destroys the family. Meth is just a horrible drug and making it legal would be a huge mistake.

Also, I think Idle made another valid point. Some hardcore drugs get you addicted from the get-go. You can't have a free-for-all on that. I agree with Ty that decriminalizing some drugs would be a step in the right directions.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Along with decriminalizing drugs...and maybe it should be for all, drugs shouldn't be looked on as a criminal type issue, but rather a medical one.

If we want to arrest or go after meth dealers..ok. But, locking up users is just foolish. They need treatment.

[Deputy Nutz]

Along with decriminalizing drugs...and maybe it should be for all, drugs shouldn't be looked on as a criminal type issue, but rather a medical one.

If we want to arrest or go after meth dealers..ok. But, locking up users is just foolish. They need treatment.

They need treatment, but when a crack head or methhead tries to rob me, or my family to get a fix I don't want to hear the sad story of their drug addiction and need for treatment.

[GBRulz]

Since 65 there have been 10 million arrests. There are approx 16K people in prison right now for MJ. 21k in the state prison system.

Currently one out 6 people in federal federal system are in for MJ related crimes..dealers, growers, habitual offenders (3rd strike issues). There are more people in prison right now for MJ than violent crimes.



I swear I had NOTHING to do with it.

Ty isn't aware of what you do for work..Ty is slowly backing away from you with his hands up.

Ty's excuses:

1. I borrowed the car.
2. My buddy left it in the car
3. THese aren't my pants

Obviously over your head. MJ tried to make a funny.

[Tarlam!]

I have agreed with this view for 25 years.

Well no shit you have, you're an addict.

I am an alcoholic. I don't pop pills, shoot up, nor do I indulge in THC.

I view banning drugs much the same way as others might view prohibition. I think it's stupid to finance Al Caida or Colombian drug barons in the same way people like Al Capone were made wealthy.

[alquaal]

I have agreed with this view for 25 years.

Well no shit you have, you're an addict.

I am an alcoholic. I don't pop pills, shoot up, nor do I indulge in THC.

I view banning drugs much the same way as others might view prohibition. I think it's stupid to finance Al Caida or Colombian drug barons in the same way people like Al Capone were made wealthy.

Who the fuck isnt an addict! Whether it be Starbucks, Mcdonalds or listening to that right wing loser Rush Limpdick.

You should check out Packerforum.com Tarlam!

Good people. Packer people.

Adios Amigos

[Tarlam!]

You should check out Packerforum.com Tarlam!

Good people. Packer people.

Adios Amigos

Thanks for the invite, alquaal, but once a Rat, always a Rat.

Hey, why not bring those good Packer People to the Rats?

[MadtownPacker]

Who the fuck isnt an addict! Whether it be Starbucks, Mcdonalds or listening to that right wing loser Rush Limpdick.

You should check out Packerforum.com Tarlam!

Good people. Packer people.

Adios AmigosMan fuck you. Is that why you are here?

[Tarlam!]

Mad, if any of us leave to that place: Good Riddance!

[bobblehead]

The economic aspect of it makes sense. And I can understand the thinking of some that some druggies are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not.

However, you can't have it on all drugs. You're going to make it legal for meth addicts to ruin their childrens lives? For heroin and coke addicts to do the same?

Yes, you can make the arguement for things like LSD and Marijuana (those I think should be legal), but I don't see how you can make hardcore drugs legal. It's just too dangerous to the rest of society.

Pretty smart for a young guy. If you legalize narcotics and heavily addictive drugs it will cause more problems than it is worth. Weed, shrooms, even X wouldn't be a big problem and the benefits outweigh any problem.

[Tarlam!]

Pretty smart for a young guy.

He's not a young guy. He outted himself very recently. He's an old guy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So what's Packerforum.com? might be worth checking out. I'm tired of the jerk-offs in this piss hole.

[Tarlam!]

So what's Packerforum.com? might be worth checking out. I'm tired of the jerk-offs in this piss hole.

Good. Fuck off, then.

[Harlan Huckleby]

did anybody hear something? i thought i heard a foul noise, but I'll just ignore it.

[MadtownPacker]

So what's Packerforum.com? might be worth checking out. I'm tired of the jerk-offs in this piss hole.Aint there some fag forum that would suit you better? If you do go dont tell them you came from here. Wouldnt want your stretched out ass to ruin the forum's rep.

[GrnBay007]

C'mon you two!!

Tarlam---> :hug: <---Harlan



:D

[Harlan Huckleby]

So what's Packerforum.com? might be worth checking out. I'm tired of the jerk-offs in this piss hole.Aint there some fag forum that would suit you better? If you do go dont tell them you came from here. Wouldnt want your stretched out ass to ruin the forum's rep.

I thought this was a fag forum. You mean all these people like girls? Where did YOU meet all these straight men?

[Harlan Huckleby]

C'mon you two!!

Tarlam---> :hug: <---Harlan



:D

I got no reason to be mad at Tarlam, I enjoyed posting a picture of him as a drama queen. But he's ignoring me, so I'm ignoring him even more.

[Tarlam!]

he's ignoring me, so I'm ignoring him even more.

He's winning, which really pisses me off, no end. How can HH ignore so perfectly? He's double ignoring me!! I have no idea how to counter being double ignored.

[sheepshead]

I have agreed with this view for 25 years.

Well no shit you have, you're an addict.

I am an alcoholic. I don't pop pills, shoot up, nor do I indulge in THC.

I view banning drugs much the same way as others might view prohibition. I think it's stupid to finance Al Caida or Colombian drug barons in the same way people like Al Capone were made wealthy.

drug is a drug is a drug-get some damn help

[BallHawk]

Pretty smart for a young guy.

He's not a young guy. He outted himself very recently. He's an old guy.

I did? :shock:

[Tarlam!]

get some damn help

I'm standing in line and there's no need to shout.

[Tarlam!]

Pretty smart for a young guy.

He's not a young guy. He outted himself very recently. He's an old guy.

I did? :shock:

Maybe I was drunk, but I thought you did.

[MadtownPacker]

he's ignoring me, so I'm ignoring him even more.

He's winning, which really pisses me off, no end. How can HH ignore so perfectly? He's double ignoring me!! I have no idea how to counter being double ignored.Just whip your cock out on him. An old bullqueer like Harlan wont be able to ignore that.

[Tarlam!]

he's ignoring me, so I'm ignoring him even more.

He's winning, which really pisses me off, no end. How can HH ignore so perfectly? He's double ignoring me!! I have no idea how to counter being double ignored.Just whip your cock out on him. An old bullqueer like Harlan wont be able to ignore that.


BOMNF! Bullqueer is an expression for the ages. I'm not sure what google result that will bring up but I am hoping for a picture of Richie Burger,

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Since 65 there have been 10 million arrests. There are approx 16K people in prison right now for MJ. 21k in the state prison system.

Currently one out 6 people in federal federal system are in for MJ related crimes..dealers, growers, habitual offenders (3rd strike issues). There are more people in prison right now for MJ than violent crimes.



I swear I had NOTHING to do with it.

Ty isn't aware of what you do for work..Ty is slowly backing away from you with his hands up.

Ty's excuses:

1. I borrowed the car.
2. My buddy left it in the car
3. THese aren't my pants

Obviously over your head. MJ tried to make a funny.

I got the joke....i was going in a different direction.

MJ=Marijuana
MJ=Ziggy

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Along with decriminalizing drugs...and maybe it should be for all, drugs shouldn't be looked on as a criminal type issue, but rather a medical one.

If we want to arrest or go after meth dealers..ok. But, locking up users is just foolish. They need treatment.

They need treatment, but when a crack head or methhead tries to rob me, or my family to get a fix I don't want to hear the sad story of their drug addiction and need for treatment.

I think you are misunderstanding. What i'm saying is that they need medical help..as their criminal actions are caused by drug dependency.

However, i'm not saying that they don't owe you/society some sort of restituion.

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

[mraynrand]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

As usual you miss the point. Locking them up doesn't change their behavior..anymore than trying stuff to change behavior while using.

Treating them medically..and then making them pay restitution and perhaps community service would be a greater good than simply locking up someone who burgalarizes your home.

[mraynrand]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

As usual you miss the point. Locking them up doesn't change their behavior..anymore than trying stuff to change behavior while using.
.

NO, as usual, you missed the point. I talked of locking up the hardened traffickers and killers. The dangerous, recidivistic bastards, not the casual users. Why lock them up? Because they are a fucking danger to society if they are not behind bars and they have proven tha nothing will change their behavior. Drunk or high drivers can be made less dangerous by some of the suggestions you offer as well as other means.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

As usual you miss the point. Locking them up doesn't change their behavior..anymore than trying stuff to change behavior while using.
.

NO, as usual, you missed the point. I talked of locking up the hardened traffickers and killers. The dangerous, recidivistic bastards, not the casual users. Why lock them up? Because they are a fucking danger to society if they are not behind bars and they have proven tha nothing will change their behavior. Drunk or high drivers can be made less dangerous by some of the suggestions you offer as well as other means.

I thought you were being sarcastic...about changing irresponsible behavior.

I'm not accustomed to you seeing the light and agreeing with me.

[GrnBay007]

There are other options to punish them besides locking them up.

Yep. You have to punish people properly. You want to lock up the hardened criminals - the big time traffickers and killers. But you have to do something else with the casual users. Try stuff that keeps people from irresponsible behavior while under the influence. With any drug, especially alcohol, that's the key. because so many people are being slaughtered on or roads by people hopped up on drugs and alcohol.

SO....any ideas?

Here's what I've seen for the most part: (over and over again)

OWI I - 2 days jail, ordered to complete substance abuse eval and treatment, ordered to complete Drunk Driving class, probation.

OWI II - ordered to complete another substance abuse eval and more outpatient treatment, OWI victim impact class. If you have $ for an attorney you might get 7 days jail, have insurance you may go to inpatient treatment, probation. No insurance, you do outpatient again and w/ a public defender you could be looking at correctional facility placement for OWI treatment for about 3 months, includes community service and drunk driving class.

OWI III - Felony (if actually convicted for a #3) - correctional facility (work release) for OWI treatment for about 4-5 months, drunk driving class (again), OWI victim impact class (again), community service and the board of parole must approve your release.

OWI III + - min. 60 day prison (shock) then on to same treatment/placement etc. as above.

OWI III + earn a 5 year prison sentence if they screw up where they receive substance abuse treatment and are out generally in 18 months or less.

I only used the example of operating while intoxicated because the sentencing is a lot more clear cut. Bottom line....you can overload on treatment OR you can lock em up, but when it all comes down to it, those that have substance abuse issues are not going to stop until they are ready. After multiple attempts at treatment have failed I have no problem seeing these people locked up. If they are off the streets for 18 months or 5 years....whatever, it may be saving a life or two. I believe this "problem" has a lot to do with our prison overcrowding. People can say an addict needs treatment (and I agree), but when do you draw the line and just lock them up in order to save the life of an innocent family driving on the roadway?

[bobblehead]

Pretty smart for a young guy.

He's not a young guy. He outted himself very recently. He's an old guy.

I did? :shock:

If you are indeed 15 I think it was, being able to understand differences in narcotics/hardcore addictive drugs vs. passive drugs is pretty strong. kudos to you, I think when I was that age I understood beer vs. all other drugs. Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

[Tarlam!]

Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

Bobble, why do you need to insult me? I clearly resemble that remark!! :oops:

[bobblehead]

Certain posters on this forum lack the ability to logically follow a train of thought half that complicated.

Bobble, why do you need to insult me? I clearly resemble that remark!! :oops:

I didn't NEED to.....

[sheepshead]

Maybe this will sway you:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_MsrsKzMM

[GoPackGo]

thats funny. Joe Cocker is waaaaasted

[Harlan Huckleby]

now you got me surfing youtube for more Joe Cocker. That guy was great. I don't think he was much of a druggy, altho he did become an alchoholic later on.

[mraynrand]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

[bobblehead]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)

[mraynrand]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)

About 4,000 people dies each year in motorcycle accidents, with the rate of death being 4-5X higher in states without helmet laws. Again, I say, value personal freedom - if you don't want to wear a helmet, fine. But you're free to die.

Relative to war deaths, an interesting number to consider: More veterans of the war in Afghanistan have died in motorcycle accidents after returning home than soldiers dying in the conflict itself (around 400 or so)- that number is from about a year and half ago. It's apples and oranges to a large extent, but it illustrates the dangers of motorcycle riding.

[GrnBay007]

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

I forgot to mention DL suspensions. 1st is one year but I'm not sure about 2nd and 3rds. I think the chain gang concept is great, but from what I heard the cost is high with supervision even with minimum risk offenders. Something needs to be done though. Way too many innocent people being killed by drunk/drugged drivers.

[Oscar]

SO....any ideas?

How about:

OWI I - Drivers license suspended for 1 year; three months hard labor on a chain gang
OWI II - Drivers license suspended for life; 2 years hard labor on a chain gang
OWI III - (and driving without license) Felony; 10-20 years chain gang/community service. Permanent probation house arrest.

about 17,000 auto deaths each year from alcohol. If you want to drink and get drunk, if you want to get stoned out of you freakin' mind - go ahead - it's a relatively free country. But know that there are severe consequences if you endanger the lives of others.

Hey, thats more lives than we have lost in iraq.....but then again, bush is a bastard and drunk drivers are poor addicts who need help. (help into a jail cell)


Though I'm one of those "Poor Addicts" I was lucky every time I got behind the wheel.. May have been a coupe years back....but...Didn't I read that Dubya used to drink a lil??? Maybe even do a lil snort?? Not that it matters...Gossip I'd say....And if it isn't gossip, good thing he hasn't got behind the wheel and killed any innocent folks..I'll add that my best friend was killed in 1994 in an alcohol related accident. Was the passenger riding with another friend of mine who was wasted.... He lived however..Gets fucked up and call's telling me how he needs my help to quit.. I see no sense in bringing Iraq into a thread about drugs and booze...

[sheepshead]

now you got me surfing youtube for more Joe Cocker. That guy was great. I don't think he was much of a druggy, altho he did become an alchoholic later on.

Oh come on, he is sooo wasted on here. He plays air guitar as well as I do!

[Harlan Huckleby]

now you got me surfing youtube for more Joe Cocker. That guy was great. I don't think he was much of a druggy, altho he did become an alchoholic later on.

Oh come on, he is sooo wasted on here. He plays air guitar as well as I do!

I've watched a bunch of Joe Cocker concerts and clips on YouTube. You hear him talking after one of his slurry, spastic performances and he speaks quickly and perfectly clearly, very witty.

What you are seeing is his interpretive style as a singer. He is not drunk, that's how expresses the emotions of the song.

[mraynrand]

I saw something about the War on Drugs on the History Channel. It was something about what German soldiers were taking during the Battle of the Bulge.