Joe Horn - man of action

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm curious what people think about the guy who was watching his neighbors get robbed, and took action. Needless to say, he is from Texas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0

[Harlan Huckleby]

news story about result:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01texas.html

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He is a brave man.

Takes a ton of courage to shoot a man in his back.

[BallHawk]

He is a brave man.

Takes a ton of courage to shoot a man in his back.

Ty beat me to it.

[Scott Campbell]

From the article.

Deadly force can also be used to protect property when “the other is fleeing immediately after committing burglary.”



Looks like crime doesn't pay for those two guys.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the guys he shot were illegal immigrants from Columbia, which I think played into the minds of the jury that let him off.

I don't see how he can claim self-defense when the theifs were running away when he shot um. On the tape, he makes it sound like that strayed towards his property, but that is surely bull.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think it is great, no more need for police. And, let's eliminate 911 as they just get in the way. Pesky judges and juries.

"The operator repeatedly told Mr. Horn not to shoot, and the police had just arrived at the scene when Mr. Horn fired three blasts of 00 buckshot from his 12-gauge, striking the men in their backs."

[mraynrand]

Here's an observation: Don't rob people and you won't end up dead.

[MJZiggy]

That concept is just so difficult to comprehend...

[Scott Campbell]

........which I think played into the minds of the jury that let him off.



I'm not a legal expert, but I read grand jury - not jury. As in I'm not sure that he was even indicted.

If the article quote on the Texas penal code was accurate, the law was pretty clear cut.

[Scott Campbell]

I think it is great, no more need for police. And, let's eliminate 911 as they just get in the way. Pesky judges and juries.


If Sean Taylor had acted more like Mr. Horn, he might still be suiting up for the Redskins you stupid pansy ass crackhead. A lot of good the police did Taylor.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think it is great, no more need for police. And, let's eliminate 911 as they just get in the way. Pesky judges and juries.


If Sean Taylor had acted more like Mr. Horn, he might still be suiting up for the Redskins you stupid pansy ass crackhead. A lot of good the police did Taylor.

I think you mean Sean Taylor's neighbor.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Here's an observation: Don't rob people and you won't end up dead.

Here is a concept...let the police do their job.

Mr. Horn was not in any danger and shouldn't be doing the job of the police.

If the police had been given the opportunity to apprehend these two...do you think they would be dead?

Burglary hardly warrants a death sentence.

[Scott Campbell]

Here's an observation: Don't rob people and you won't end up dead.

Here is a concept...let the police do their job.

Mr. Horn was not in any danger and shouldn't be doing the job of the police.

If the police had been given the opportunity to apprehend these two...do you think they would be dead?

Burglary hardly warrants a death sentence.


Even a crackhead should be able to comprehend the difference between a death sentence and being killed during the commission of a crime.

Death sentence? What a stupid, stupid thing to say Tyrone.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft Crusty encourages political rats to post endless speculation about the possible not-so-impending return of Brett Favre on the Packer Forum.

[Scott Campbell]

Cleft Crusty encourages political rats to post endless speculation about the possible not-so-impending return of Brett Favre on the Packer Forum.


Smooth catch Cleft, but I saw the first post before the edits. It can get tricky keeping track of multiple id's. :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

I think it is great, no more need for police. And, let's eliminate 911 as they just get in the way. Pesky judges and juries.


If Sean Taylor had acted more like Mr. Horn, he might still be suiting up for the Redskins you stupid pansy ass crackhead. A lot of good the police did Taylor.

I think you mean Sean Taylor's neighbor.

No, I meant Sean Taylor. Quit trying to interpret what I'm saying, and just read the damn thing.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Here's an observation: Don't rob people and you won't end up dead.

Here is a concept...let the police do their job.

Mr. Horn was not in any danger and shouldn't be doing the job of the police.

If the police had been given the opportunity to apprehend these two...do you think they would be dead?

Burglary hardly warrants a death sentence.


Even a crackhead should be able to comprehend the difference between a death sentence and being killed during the commission of a crime.

Death sentence? What a stupid, stupid thing to say Tyrone.

THe commission of the crime was not to Mr. Horn. Firing 3 times at the criminals is the intent to kill...as STATED BY MR. HORN.

“I’m going to kill them.”

What part of that sentence doesn't say death sentence?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think it is great, no more need for police. And, let's eliminate 911 as they just get in the way. Pesky judges and juries.


If Sean Taylor had acted more like Mr. Horn, he might still be suiting up for the Redskins you stupid pansy ass crackhead. A lot of good the police did Taylor.

I think you mean Sean Taylor's neighbor.

No, I meant Sean Taylor. Quit trying to interpret what I'm saying, and just read the damn thing.

I read the "damn" thing..the analogy doesn't work. Mr. Horn's house wasn't invaded.

P.S. Taylor did try to defend himself....and perhaps if he had a gun...his girlfriend might have been killed as well.

[Scott Campbell]

What part of that sentence doesn't say death sentence?


LOL

Seriously? The entire part.

[Scott Campbell]

P.S. Taylor did try to defend himself....and perhaps if he had a gun...his girlfriend might have been killed as well.



ROFL


Gee, THANK GOD he didn't have a gun. All's well that ends well.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What part of that sentence doesn't say death sentence?


LOL

Seriously? The entire part.

ARe you serious?

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.

Sorry, i guess i just take people at their word...especially when they are consistent.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

P.S. Taylor did try to defend himself....and perhaps if he had a gun...his girlfriend might have been killed as well.



ROFL


Gee, THANK GOD he didn't have a gun. All's well that ends well.


I'm not saying for him not to defend himself...which he did. But, with a bunch of frightened teenagers...who knows what kind of hail of bullets coulda resulted.

For you to even compare these 2 situations is absurd.

[Scott Campbell]

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.



Well did the crooks send the victim a notice that they'd be robbing the place?

[Scott Campbell]

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.



The law required no such actions.


But feel free to publish them in Crackhead Tyrone's Rules Of Home Protection Etiquette. It'll be huge on Amazon.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.



Well did the crooks send the victim a notice that they'd be robbing the place?

Was the victim Mr. Horn?

Did they deserve to die for a non violent buglary?

[Scott Campbell]

I read the "damn" thing..the analogy doesn't work.


Is the guy making the death sentence comparison seriously whining about bad analogies?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.



The law required no such actions.


But feel free to publish them in Crackhead Tyrone's Rules Of Home Protection Etiquette. It'll be huge on Amazon.

The law has nothing to do with this...he wasn't threatened...and you know it.

The operator told him not to go outside, the police were there.....he put himself in any dangerous situation.

What part of FLEEING don't you understand?

[Scott Campbell]

Was the victim Mr. Horn?

Did they deserve to die for a non violent buglary?

1) Nope.

2) Nope. But when you rob somebody, you assume the risk.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I read the "damn" thing..the analogy doesn't work.


Is the guy making the death sentence comparison seriously whining about bad analogies?

Telling the operators he is going to kill them...is that not a death sentence? Did he not carry it out?

[Scott Campbell]

Telling the operators he is going to kill them...is that not a death sentence?


I don't care how many times you ask it Tyrone, or how many ways you ask it. The answer is still no. Read it. Accept it. Embrace it.

[Scott Campbell]

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.



The law required no such actions.


But feel free to publish them in Crackhead Tyrone's Rules Of Home Protection Etiquette. It'll be huge on Amazon.

The law has nothing to do with this...



Huh? You stoned or something?

[CyclonePackFan]

What part of that sentence doesn't say death sentence?


LOL

Seriously? The entire part.

ARe you serious?

Mr. HOrn didnt' go out and point the gun and say stop or firing a warning shot...he stated his intentions...and followed thru.

Sorry, i guess i just take people at their word...especially when they are consistent.

Did you listen to the tape? He gave them a clear warning to freeze.

Has anybody here read any of the news stories beyond the NY Times article? Both of the deceased were convicted felons. Both had been previously convicted and one (Ortiz, I believe), was sentenced to 25 years for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999. Both were members of a Houston burglary ring which was also selling illegal weapons. That probably has something to do with why there aren't more people angry with Joe Horn.

The plainclothes detective who was on the scene when the two men were shot (but for some reason wasn't doing anything) attested that Ortiz began running towards Horn when he came outside, then began angling away when he was shot in the back (probably because he saw the shotgun), which is why Horn felt threatened (and why he didn't go to trial).

I'm moving about 20 minutes away from where this happened, and I sure as hell am glad these two aren't around to break into my future home. Knowing Houston PD and the American legal system, if they were to catch them, they definitely would be back on the streets by now.

As someone I was discussing this with said to me, "What is a human life worth? Apparently these two thought it was worth risking for $2,000."

[Scott Campbell]

...is that not a death sentence? Did he not carry it out?



Ok Mr. Bigguns. A death sentence is handed down by the state, and carried out by the state. Those two dudes just got themselves shot in a botched robbery attempt. There's a HUGE difference - even in crackhead land.

Don't be stupid here Ty.


A better analogy of a death sentence would be you trying to defend your silly statement.

[Scott Campbell]

What part of FLEEING don't you understand?



Well Tyrone, I think I understand what it means.

[MJZiggy]

I'm fleeing this thread. How's that? And I didn't take anything so there's no need to shoot. I think I'm siding with the logic that says if you don't wanna get shot, stay out of other people's houses in areas where they likely have shotguns...

[Scott Campbell]

I'm fleeing this thread. How's that? And I didn't take anything so there's no need to shoot. I think I'm siding with the logic that says if you don't wanna get shot, stay out of other people's houses in areas where they likely have shotguns...



I feel safer already knowing that you're giving up your life of crime.

[MadtownPacker]

Here's an observation: Don't rob people and you won't end up dead.Sums it up for me.

This guy is my fucking hero. I only hope I would have the chance to blast anyone who is trying to fuck with me or mine.

[oregonpackfan]

I'm fleeing this thread. How's that? And I didn't take anything so there's no need to shoot. I think I'm siding with the logic that says if you don't wanna get shot, stay out of other people's houses in areas where they likely have shotguns...

I feel safer already knowing that you're giving up your life of crime.

If we have be be afraid of MJZiggy's "life of crime," then the whole country is going to pot!" :)

[the_idle_threat]

The NYT article makes a big deal out of race. I don't think race has anything to do with it. Would a black homeowner who shot a burglar get off scot free? Yes. See the following link for evidence (about 1 minute into the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMEfgSAk4yM

The correct result was reached in both situations. I have no problem with there being fewer burglars on the street.

[BallHawk]

Is what the guy did legal? I'm not too familiar with the castle doctrine, but it sounds like what he did was within the law.

Is what the guy did morally right? That's for each individual to decide, but I think everyone can agree that robbing a house isn't within good morals, so I guess the guys got what was coming to them.

[the_idle_threat]

Is what the guy did legal? I'm not too familiar with the castle doctrine, but it sounds like what he did was within the law.


Well, a Grand Jury looked at the evidence and declined to indict him. I'll take their word for it that what he did was within the law. It was probably right at the edge of legal/illegal, but apparently they decided it was on the legal side of that line.

[bobblehead]

I read a story once about a man who was in a similar situation and didn't shoot because they were fleeing. 3 nights later the same burglers broke into his house when he left for bowling night. His teenage daughter came home from her part time job and surprised the poor burglers who didn't deserve the death sentence 3 days earlier. They raped and killed her.

I guess this guy did the "moral" thing...but I'm not so sure he is happy with his decision. After all, no way those guys deserved the death sentence for a mere non violent break in.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think this situation is the perfect illustration of the problem with guns. You start with the argument that people need guns for self-defense. OK, the effectiveness is debatable, but I can buy into that argument. Then you have a redneck state like Texas that extends the law to include protection of property under the concept of "self-defense."

Now we're at the point where if you see teenagers stealing beer out of your neighbor's garage, you can waste them with a shotgun. LAter on, if it turns out they were just cleaning out the garage you are in trouble, but otherwise, cool.

You can not trust people to limit the use of guns to "self defense." If you lsiten to this incident, its perfectly clear that this guy was just angry that some black guys (who turned out to be brown) might get away with burglary of his neighbor. Anger is now a justification for murder.

It is not shocking what this guy did. What is shocking is the number of people that think its OK. We really have lost our way.

[Zool]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

[Scott Campbell]

We really have lost our way.


Lost our way? I have a feeling that Mr. Horn's actions would have been in alignment with a vast majority of the original citizens of this country.

But go ahead and feel bad for the convicted felons who were stopped in the commission of yet another felony if it makes you feel morally superior.

Thou shalt not steal. It was the 2 perps who lost their way.

[SkinBasket]

Then you have a redneck state like Texas that extends the law...

Your argument loses a little effectiveness here. Not that it has much to start, but to the crow often goes the broken limb.

That and your extrapolations to dire situations of dead teenagers cleaning out their garage don't jive with reality (shocker...). This isn't a new law, harlan. Where are the decades of poor dead teens who were gunned down cleaning up around the house piled high on your position?

Oh, and you're conveniently spinning this guy's emotional response into motivation now? I guess maybe you're one of those voice experts. or you're just full of shit. Anger was his response. His justification was the law.

[Scott Campbell]

Now we're at the point where if you see teenagers stealing beer out of your neighbor's garage, you can waste them with a shotgun. LAter on, if it turns out they were just cleaning out the garage you are in trouble, but otherwise, cool.



Joe Horn didn't shoot teenagers stealing beer out of his garage.


Joe Horn also didn't shoot teenagers cleaning out his garage.


Joe Horn shot 2 convicted felons during he commission of another felony.

[Scott Campbell]

Anger was his response. His justification was the law.



Excellent distinction.

[Scott Campbell]

Thieves tend to be opportunistic. They look for easy targets, hoping for little or no risk.

So here's a question for you. If your a professional theif, who would you rather rob - Harlan, or Joe Horn?

[Harlan Huckleby]

That and your extrapolations to dire situations of dead teenagers cleaning out their garage don't jive with reality

???? So you are saying if it is a good thing if the dead guys are brown guys, but its a tragedy if it the dead thieves are white teens?

The case is the same either way, but you have pointed out another interesting thing about this situation. The jury would have fried the guy if he blew away local teens.



This isn't a new law, harlan.

Joe Horn apparently thinks its a new law. He argues with the 911 dispatcher who implores him to not shoot, "The gun laws have changed." Obviously the signal has been sent that the use of guns to settle things is more acceptable. Something has changed.


Anger was his response. His justification was the law.

I don't really get the point. He shot the guy because he was angry.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.

In general, I am ok with people having guns for self-protection. But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.

[Scott Campbell]

But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.



I think the laws are pretty clear about burglary being illegal. Those two guys wouldn't be dead if they didn't break the law.

[SkinBasket]

????...

This seems to sum up your understanding of this entire thread.



Joe Horn apparently thinks its a new law. He argues with the 911 dispatcher who implores him to not shoot, "The gun laws have changed." Obviously the signal is being sent that the use of guns to settle things is more acceptable.

The operator was looking out for Joe's safety, not reciting law to him.



I don't really get the point.

We know, Harlan. We know.


He shot the guy because he was angry.

Again, you know this how? Oh, that's right. You don't. He was angry that two fuck-ups were breaking into a neighbor's house in a part of the country where being a neighbor still means something. He was angry that he was watching two felons steal from the house right next to his own. He shot them because they stole the shit.

If what you say is true, why has Joe Horn never shot any other "coloreds" that he's been angry at before this incident? Could it be..... um.... maybe... they weren't stealing shit out of his neighbor's house? :idea:

[Scott Campbell]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.



I think if you break into someone elses home, you've pretty much forfeited every right known to man.

[Scott Campbell]

Noobish DP. I'm so ashamed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If what you say is true, why has Joe Horn never shot any other "coloreds" that he's been angry at before this incident? Could it be..... um.... maybe... they weren't stealing shit out of his neighbor's house? :idea:

yes, he shot the colored because he was angry that they were stealing shit.

I feel like I'm being interogated by a 4 year old.

[SkinBasket]

Double post!

NOOB!

[Scott Campbell]

I feel like I'm being interogated by a 4 year old.



That's not a bad idea. It'd level the playing field.

[SkinBasket]

If what you say is true, why has Joe Horn never shot any other "coloreds" that he's been angry at before this incident? Could it be..... um.... maybe... they weren't stealing shit out of his neighbor's house? :idea:

yes, he shot the colored because he was angry that they were stealing shit.

I feel like I'm being interogated by a 4 year old.


I'm sorry I didn't sum up your own argument for you so you could remember what you said 15 minutes ago you mentally crippled fuck.

[Scott Campbell]

I think I understand where Harlan is coming from. He's a softie. What's the harm in letting these poor fellas take another couple thousand dollars worth of stuff that the rich neighbors probably didn't need anyway. Unfortunately, the world is not always kind to softies, and they are more likely to be victimized than people brave enough to stand up for neighbors, and take action against thugs. It certainly would have been easier to go hide in the basement.

Perhaps some day in the distant future society will evolve into a kindler and gentler world, where Harlan's brand of fairness will have more practical potential. Until then, we need more people like Joe Horn that are willing to deal with Harlan's "victims", or as the law might define them - convicted felons.

[Zool]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.

In general, I am ok with people having guns for self-protection. But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.

Well clearly this solution is not working and hasnt been working for many many years now. You think 200 years ago people had home owners insurance? Well in a way they did. They all owned guns. Call it savage or primitive, but if you were going to commit a crime, you knew the possible outcome.

I've said it before, if you eliminate repeat offenders, you'd have a lot less crime.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.

In general, I am ok with people having guns for self-protection. But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.

Well clearly this solution is not working and hasnt been working for many many years now. You think 200 years ago people had home owners insurance? Well in a way they did. They all owned guns. Call it savage or primitive, but if you were going to commit a crime, you knew the possible outcome.

I've said it before, if you eliminate repeat offenders, you'd have a lot less crime.

The cops would have done the job fine in this case, you ignored this.

I am not against people owning guns for self-defense. But you have to deal with the craziness that can happen without strict guidelines. People do stupid stuff. Shooting those two burglars was really stupid and totally unnecessary, the dude basically got angry and went huntin.
I know some people think this is fine, since the dead guys were apparently criminals, but I think its crazy, and we'll just have to disagree.

[MadtownPacker]

I have to wonder if Harlan has ever committed a burglary similar to these corpses in his youth. If he did it is too bad it wasnt in TX and Joe Horn wasnt available.

I have done a few fucked up things in my past and had I got smoked because of them I would have felt I deserved what I got.

[Zool]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.

In general, I am ok with people having guns for self-protection. But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.

Well clearly this solution is not working and hasnt been working for many many years now. You think 200 years ago people had home owners insurance? Well in a way they did. They all owned guns. Call it savage or primitive, but if you were going to commit a crime, you knew the possible outcome.

I've said it before, if you eliminate repeat offenders, you'd have a lot less crime.

The cops would have done the job fine in this case, you ignored this.

I am not against people owning guns for self-defense. But you have to deal with the craziness that can happen without strict guidelines. People do stupid stuff. Shooting those two burglars was really stupid and totally unnecessary, the dude basically got angry and went huntin.
I know some people think this is fine, since the dead guys were apparently criminals, but I think its crazy, and we'll just have to disagree.

I agree to disagree then. I think repeat offenders should be taken out of commission. If shooting them in the back is the method of choice, then so be it. I feel the same about sex offenders. Society is becoming soft and stupid.

There will always be people who think they are alpha's and will attempt to dominate those they consider less than them. It seems that more and more lately, these predators are allowed to continue doing whatever they want whenever they want with the only repercussion for being caught is some jail time. Even this jail time is becoming a joke. Its no deterrent at all.

Everyone makes mistakes. But when you keep making the same mistakes, doesn't that seem like a pattern of disregard for all the laws you want upheld?

If someone breaks into my house while I'm there, they might as well assume they will be beaten unconscious unless they shoot me first. I'm not a huge fan of guns, but I'm a big proponent for consequences for actions. I won't be the victim if someone threatens me and mine.

[SkinBasket]

I think I understand where Harlan is coming from. He's a softie.

Come on now. It's like you don't think Harlan's position, which happens to be based off of some fella named Quanell X's views, holds less merit than that of a grand jury.

[bobblehead]

If you criticize one solution, its on you to come up with a better one.

In this case, I would say let the cops do the job.

In general, I am ok with people having guns for self-protection. But the laws have to be STRICTLY written to limit their use to self-defense against immediate threats against personal safety. Not property. Not anger at your neighbor being burlarized.

Well clearly this solution is not working and hasnt been working for many many years now. You think 200 years ago people had home owners insurance? Well in a way they did. They all owned guns. Call it savage or primitive, but if you were going to commit a crime, you knew the possible outcome.

I've said it before, if you eliminate repeat offenders, you'd have a lot less crime.

The cops would have done the job fine in this case, you ignored this.

I am not against people owning guns for self-defense. But you have to deal with the craziness that can happen without strict guidelines. People do stupid stuff. Shooting those two burglars was really stupid and totally unnecessary, the dude basically got angry and went huntin.
I know some people think this is fine, since the dead guys were apparently criminals, but I think its crazy, and we'll just have to disagree.

Just curious...if the man had walked out cool and calm and put a round in each skull without being angry it woulda been ok?? I mean assuming he said stop or you die first. the anger seems to be a theme in your problem with this...I can assure you that I can calmly put down an animal (which is what those who can't respect others property are) with very little emotion involved...would I be better than joe horn?

[the_idle_threat]

In the early days, horse and cattle theives were hanged. Then justice evolved to where theft of property was not a capital offense. Now, the laws have "evolved" so far that they're no deterrent at all, and criminals are so emboldened and protected by the law that people are in favor of shooting lawbreakers when caught in the act. It's a natural reaction to the laws getting too soft on crime.

Harlan, your theory that the police could have handled this situation far better than Mr. Horn did is faulty in that they would have been caught, but then what? How long after they're released from jail/prison and perhaps deported would they be back in a neighborhood, breaking into people's houses again? I'm glad that burglars have to worry about a Mr. Horn being around to stop the cycle.

[Tarlam!]

When I was 21, some scum bucket broke into my car. He stole the tools of my trade, my Chef knives. I went to work that day feeling naked and just sitting in my car, I felt really dirty. I can't imagine what vicitms of sexual offenses must feel like.

Joe Horn is a hero to me.

Crimes like taking drugs I don't find are worth the death penalty. One is just abusing one's self.

But if you break into my house or car or if you sell crack to my son or touch my daughter against her will, I'm gonna want to kill you. Stone fucking dead. I don't care what colour your skin is, which God you whorship to or not or how young and foolish you might be. Given the opportunity, I would want to see you dead.

Ironically, and this is what makes Joe Horn a hero for me, I don't know if I have it in me to actually pull the trigger on a burglar. I think that takes a lot of courage.

If I actually did have the courage in the heat of the moment, I wouldn't feel an ounce of guilt. I could look your mother, sister, wife or child directly in the eyes and not blink. Of that I am convinced.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan, your theory that the police could have handled this situation far better than Mr. Horn did is faulty in that they would have been caught, but then what? How long after they're released from jail/prison and perhaps deported would they be back in a neighborhood, breaking into people's houses again? I'm glad that burglars have to worry about a Mr. Horn being around to stop the cycle.

I can't comment on your theory that criminals don't do enough time. Maybe, I just don't know. But the answer is not to have vigilante executions.

I'm ok with people protecting their safety with firearms. As far as protecting property, nah. Burglars are going to flee at the site or sound of a shotgun.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just curious...if the man had walked out cool and calm and put a round in each skull without being angry it woulda been ok??

no, of course not. I emphasize anger because people make decisions on emotion, that is the problem with vigilante justice.

[bobblehead]

Just curious...if the man had walked out cool and calm and put a round in each skull without being angry it woulda been ok??

no, of course not. I emphasize anger because people make decisions on emotion, that is the problem with vigilante justice.

Well, honestly I can't say what I woulda done, but I can say that I don't have any problem with what happened. I live in a safe area with low crime and haven't ever drawn my weapon on anyone.

If I lived in a crime ridden area with young thugs breaking into my neighbors house and it was getting outta control I might very well shoot them if I saw them. I did have my car broken into twice and I can only guess what I woulda done if I had caught the pricks in the act.