Ted Thompson and the Favre Situation

[Carolina_Packer]

I know this has probably been alluded to in other threads, but I wanted to start this discussion as a TT thread, and not just from Favre's perspective. I don't know what to believe about this situation. I hear talk about the Packers front office not wanting Brett to come back. I don't know what is true or not. You hear his Mom and people close to him saying that the Packers didn't seem to want him back. Is that why he retired in the first place?

I'm sure what a front office wants most are players that they know they can move forward with. This is all a tricky situation for a front office. A franchise/all-time player like Favre hems and haws about retirement for several years and the front office is bound to wonder when the future begins without that player. So, it might not be that the Packers "forced him out" or to retire, but they certainly wanted to know what the future of the most important position on the field was going to be. I don't think Favre would have said all the things about his level of desire at his presser back in March to cover up that the team didn't seem to want him anymore. Why would they think that way? The guy can still play at an advanced age for QB's. He's simply amazing. But, that being said, an organization needs to know about the long-term prospects, and short-term ones at that position to give themselves the best chance to succeed. What is any GM supposed to do given that situation?

TT is so close to the vest on all this stuff, we may never find out where he stands, but I suppose we'll know him by his actions what his true intentions are. We don't know how he really feels about Favre possibly coming back or how he will handle it if he does want to. How should it be handled and how will it be handled? Those are the things I want to know now.

I hope he comes back with the Pack. He's earned the right to change his mind, not by my sentimentality, but by his continued solid play. Your thoughts about what is happening in the front office with this situation?

[bobblehead]

Plain and simple when TT got here favre was being handled with kid gloves.....missing all OTA and minicamps and generally getting plenty of days off in TC as well. TT hired a tough minded MM to get BF back to the probowl player he was capable of. He wanted favre as his QB, but only a committed BF who put in the time necessary to win.

Favre was on board....begrudgingly for a couple years, but this season he simply decided he wasn't "loved" enough (read...given special treatment that would handicap the team). TT ain't gonna budge on that shit and I think both TT and MM were sick of forcing BF to do the right thing and nudged him in the retirement direction and when he said he was retiring they didn't leave much room for changing his mind and aren't gonna start now.

[gex]

BuBBLHEAD=HATER, :shock: Face it you don't like Favre, You have no sense of LOYALITY! What does a MAN who gave EVERTHING he had to give to a team, a city a state, have to prove anythng to a punk like you.

[bobblehead]

BuBBLHEAD=HATER, :shock: Face it you don't like Favre, You have no sense of LOYALITY! What does a MAN who gave EVERTHING he had to give to a team, a city a state, have to prove anythng to a punk like you.

This is a TT thread, I was posting from that position. I wanted favre back and have said so, but now that he has missed OTA's, Minicamps, and announced his retirement I want him to stay that way. I wanted a COMMITTED BF back, not a wishy washy show up on sundays guy.

I have a huge sense of loyalty...to the packers. And I agree BF has absolutely NOTHING to prove to me, why would you even make that comment??

As far as you bursting out this way and calling me a punk and showing that you are reacting from emotion instead of logic I shouldn't have bothered responding, but since this is our first interaction I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if you put down the redbull and just read my post from the point of view.....hey, what exactly happened in bobbleheads opinion.....you might not get so worked up.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yes. I'd like to see this thread stay directed at TT and what people see him doing, or having done as far as Favre is concerned. I have no answers, only questions about how Brett's situation has been handled, and how it will be handled, should he decide to come out of "retirement". I can't imagine the pressure this puts on a GM to give a franchise, HOF in waiting QB his full measure of dignity that he deserves for what he has done, yet, the GM wanting to know the direction the ship is heading long-term. It's can't be easy at all. I just hope it is all handled well, and that he does both what is right by Favre and for the Packers, which may be the predicament he ends up being in as this plays out further.

[Scott Campbell]

I'd like to know what about playing football for another 6 months could be so fucking hard to decide. Getting married - big decision. Getting divorced - big decision. Having children - big decision. Taking a loved one off life support - big decision. Playing football for 6 months - big whoop. This ain't exactly babies dying.

[Bretsky]

It's been my view that TT wants to move on...for sure after this year.....but maybe sooner. We saw signs....rumors of deadlines....Mark Murphy publicly saying he expects Favre's decision any day now when in reality he had no clue. I don't think Favre was ready for the call when he retired; my belief is he continuously encouraged to be sure he was 100%, but rushed. I think MM wanted Favre back. I don't think TT did.

I don't see TT bringing Favre back to Green Bay. For the most part he left the discussions to his coach when Favre retired and once Favre retired TT was happy and began his plan to move on. He drafted two two QB's......said the right things to the media.....encouraged that retirement of the jersey jersey to be right at the beginning of the season (just my belief).

I don't think TT does a thing with Favre's "itches". He hopes they go away and ignores them unless Favre calls to say he wants to come back for sure or sends the formal letter indicating this to Green Bay. And that could happen. I see the relationship between TT and Favre to be professional...but very cold.

At that point my gut tells me TT either trades Favre or released him. AROD is his boy.

[Tarlam!]

AROD is his boy.

I think this statement is bunk. You could argue Ryan Grant is his boy, too, but as we all know, Grant still doesn't have a contract signed. And the number of vets that he has re-signed also make your statement thin, B.

I don't think TT is an egomaniac. If A-Rod doesn't pan out, he's gone. But he'll get a fair shake. What more should we fans expect of our GM?

TT has never claimed any credit for turning the franchise around from a cap nightmare full of overpaid has-beens and wannabe's. He always, ALWAYS talks in the "we" form and he has readily, though respectfully admitted screw ups along the way. I say respectfully, cause if a player hasn't panned out, TT has NEVER had an ill word about the player.

The way I view TT might be naive, but I think he's trying to do his job. I think he treats everyone of the players with the same level of respect and doesn't have favourites. He doesn't pamper anyone. He wants players that will give their all on the practice field, locker room and on Sundays.

And, he's damned right to do so, IMHO. Why? It would be damned impossible for M3 to bench a "Brett Favre".

You all know I admire Favre's Seattle performance - brilliant.

But I would have loved to have seen a hungry A-Rod in the 4th quarter against the Giants when it was absolutely clear to anyone that Favre was looking tired and cold all game long.

TT is handling his job better than 31 other GMs IMHO.

[twoseven]

BuBBLHEAD=HATER, :shock: Face it you don't like Favre, You have no sense of LOYALITY! What does a MAN who gave EVERTHING he had to give to a team, a city a state, have to prove anythng to a punk like you.Time to put down the kool-aid.

What other HOF caliber player has handled their final remaining offseason(s) like Favre? Is the answer zero? Favre has been pulling the mystery routine for close to five seasons now, constantly putting the question mark on his own back every spring by entertaining the R word. The team and upper management have given him more than enough consideration and respect during all of that time and all the time he needed to figure things out for himself. Wondering whether or not the leader of your team is going to keep playing is a fairly important thing to know when free agency and the draft are approaching, yet every friggin' year the organization handled itself with class and addressed these issues without asking Favre to have made a decision concerning his future. Now he finally cuts the cord and the team is forced to move forward, gearing the offense up for a new QB and spending not one, but two draft picks on QBs...only to have Brett feeling the itch after a whole three months of retirement. Now the organization should just fall to its knees to reverse its own work and welcome #4 back. Who's running the team, TT and MM or BF? All the other offseasons you could make the claim that Brett has earned the right..blah blah blah. THIS is different. It took Favre about three months after the NFCC game to decide he wanted out FOREVER after five years of thinking about it, the ENTIRE time he was begged to return..then it took him about the same time to decide he wanted back in. Ok, whatever you want Brett. He has been contemplating reitrement since about 2003, it's his own fucking problem that he finally retired after plenty of seasons to get ready for it, and now it's over..but not really.

If you want the GBP to be all about one man and what is best for him and him alone, go ahead and call all those supporting TT and the team haters. I started watching this team long before Brett and will do so long after he's gone, like many fans out there..how about you? TT has got a hell of a lot more to think about besides what is best for Brett as he tries to run the ENTIRE team and handle all of its players, and focuses on more than just 2008. What message is sent to the organization, all of its players, and its fans when the GM isn't in full control of his own team? Favre's itch has put TT and MM in a shitty situation, that is a reality, and there is no easy way out of it. TT is the asshole in someone's eyes no matter what comes of this situation, and you're giving Brett a pass.

[Packnut]

AROD is his boy.

I think this statement is bunk. You could argue Ryan Grant is his boy, too, but as we all know, Grant still doesn't have a contract signed. And the number of vets that he has re-signed also make your statement thin, B.

I don't think TT is an egomaniac. If A-Rod doesn't pan out, he's gone. But he'll get a fair shake. What more should we fans expect of our GM?

TT has never claimed any credit for turning the franchise around from a cap nightmare full of overpaid has-beens and wannabe's. He always, ALWAYS talks in the "we" form and he has readily, though respectfully admitted screw ups along the way. I say respectfully, cause if a player hasn't panned out, TT has NEVER had an ill word about the player.

The way I view TT might be naive, but I think he's trying to do his job. I think he treats everyone of the players with the same level of respect and doesn't have favourites. He doesn't pamper anyone. He wants players that will give their all on the practice field, locker room and on Sundays.

And, he's damned right to do so, IMHO. Why? It would be damned impossible for M3 to bench a "Brett Favre".

You all know I admire Favre's Seattle performance - brilliant.

But I would have loved to have seen a hungry A-Rod in the 4th quarter against the Giants when it was absolutely clear to anyone that Favre was looking tired and cold all game long.

TT is handling his job better than 31 other GMs IMHO.


I would have liked to see a better prepared team from MM in the Giants game.

I would have liked for our WR's to have gotten a sliver of separation against a less than stellar secondary.

I would have liked for our O-line to actually make a freakin run block.

I would have liked for our D to have played with some kind of EMOTION.

I would have liked for our defensive coordinator to adjust when he see's the same thing happen a BILLION freakin times.

I would have liked for Harris to keep his mouth shut while PB was schooling him.

I would have liked a stronger commitment to the run.


Why is it so hard for you to comprehend it's a TEAM game? It really is not that difficult a concept.

Blaming Favre for that loss is MORONIC and shows a complete lack of understanding for the game of pro football, yet you take your little cheap shots at him every chance you get.

EVERYONE from the coaches to the players SUCKED in that game! If blaming everyone is to complicated a task for you, then blame the main guy responsible- AL HARRIS.

Of course in your brain, may-be you firmly believe it was Favre providing coverage (or lack there of) on PB???????????????????

[Scott Campbell]

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend it's a TEAM game? It really is not that difficult a concept.


Ok, but that statement cuts both ways Packnut. Then Ted shouldn't be expected to grovel to get Brett to come back anymore than he'd be expected to grovel to get Jarret Bush to come back. If everyone on the team were expected to make equal contributions, then why wasn't everyone on the roster making $12M/year.

And you're right - Al Harris did play like crap. I'm worried about him.

[The Shadow]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

[Bretsky]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

Sure, let's give him a pass on it all then

[Scott Campbell]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

Sure, let's give him a pass on it all then



Give him a pass on what?

[texaspackerbacker]

This thread, too, is leaping without evidence to the assumption that Favre indeed IS "hemming and hawing" again.

Thompson is handling this exactly right--being unavailable for comment/out of town/on vacation. You don't wave at shadows; You don't comment on unsubstantiated RUMORS, particularly if the subject of the rumors denies that there is anything to them.

Hell, in a perfect world, athletes and executives would stonewall the God damned media assholes just on general principles.

[cheesner]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

Sure, let's give him a pass on it all then



Give him a pass on what?On putting a team together that is:

1. The NFL's youngest
2. Considerable cap space
3. Went 13-3
4. Is very deep
5. Is loaded with great young talent.


No sense in giving credit where credit is due

[mraynrand]

Funny, as yet I have to see any media starting any of the Favre threads on this website. Unless some of the rats are in the press....



http://alice.loria.fr/publications/papers/2006/EGSR_Ardeco/supplemental/images/yawn.png

[MJZiggy]

Give him a pass on what?On putting a team together that is:

1. The NFL's youngest
2. Considerable cap space
3. Went 13-3
4. Is very deep
5. Is loaded with great young talent.


No sense in giving credit where credit is due[/quote]

Well, damn him straight to hell for all that!!

[Packerarcher]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?
Who gives a shit what he was named. If he pressured one of the greatest QB's ever into early retirement,then he should be named Jack Ass of the year. Bottom line is if Brett wants to come back LET HIM,he is the Packers best chance of going to the Super Bowl. Besides Rodgers will get hurt before game 5 anyway the guy is a puss,plus he hates the GB fans.

[vince]

It isn't Thompson's role to make Favre's decisions for him. He's a big boy and this isn't Pop Warner football. To assert that TT making him feel unwanted should be any consideration is nothing less than a joke - especially at this level. The TEAM was paying him more than $11 million to play. He was under contract to earn more than $12.5 million for the next two years if he wanted to play. But he made the decision not to play - not TT.

If TT wanted Brett out that bad, he had every opportunity to trade or release him. He didn't do that. Absent that, whether Brett returns or not is not TT's decision to make. It's Brett's. And he made it - based on his unwillingness to commit to the TEAM preparing through the offseason and beyond to give his best effort.

PackerTimer said it well when he said,

Does your boss continually pat you on the back and ask if you'll be back tomorrow? Mine doesn't. I figure until they ask me to leave or I decide to leave I keep showing up and doing my job. I don't need my worth validated on a daily basis.

Favre was given ample time (once again) to determine if he wanted to return. If his decision was going to be to play, he was told that he owes it to the TEAM, his TEAMmates and the fans to get himself ready to give 100% for the season to overcome another year of aging, and to earn the $12.5 million the franchise would be paying him, to maximize the opportunity for TEAM success. He decided that was too much to give. After all he's gien this franchise and us fans, that's a decision we all should be able to respect.

As the offseason continued, the TEAM made important personnel decisions, the coaches planned for how to best prepare for this season, mini-camps, practice sessions, and the entire TEAM worked together on offseason workout programs designed to get them all to the next level, all without Favre, who decided that kind of TEAM commitment was no longer in him.

Now, when the TEAM results of all the offseason's hard work are on the brink of being tested and shown off to the world, Favre wants to re-enter the scene and bear the fruits of the work - without having been a part of the TEAM commitment to excellence.

Brett should be thanking God for how blessed he's been to have had the opportunities he's had, not whining about how he doesn't feel welcome and getting his family, friends and agent to express his feelings for him in public. Brett is a great player, and I have the utmost respect for his past TEAM commitments and contributions, but his high maintenance has finally become too much to overcome.

Here's an article that expresses the opposite argument. In my opinion, everyone of these are highly dubious arguments, and I can't help but say, so what? with every assertion, although I do think it's funny that the writer accuses everyone involved of acting like a bunch of women. :oops:

http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/ted-thompson-wanted-favre-out/


Ted Thompson wanted Favre out

Here it is. Steve and I have been speculating about this really ever since the 2006 season ended. We have reached the conclusion that by his actions (or inactions), his words and even his non-verbals (counselor-speak), TT has made it relatively clear to fans and I’m sure Favre, that he was actually NOT indifferent to Favre’s retirement decision (which was the public impression he conveyed), but that he just didn’t want Favre on the team anymore, period. We have been monitoring this scenario the whole off-season like most NFL fans with a suspicious eye cast toward TT. Following is our argument.

Prior to Favre’s retirement, TT responded to a reporter wondering if TT had encouraged Favre to come back by saying something to the effect of: Favre is a 38 year old man, he can make his own decisions. TT handled this reporter’s question in a dismissive fashion.

Mike McCarthy never spoke inclusively of TT whenever alluding to efforts to encourage Favre to come back. On a good number of occasions, MM was clear that he wanted Favre to come back, but MM never indicated “we” or never mentioned TT when referring to Favre (that I am aware of).

TT being extra clear once Favre did retire that Rodgers is the guy. Sure, this is a logical thing to say considering he was back-up last year and has learned now for 3 years behind Favre etc. But it was interesting that this was simply declared by TT right after Favre retired when the modern-day response for coaches/GMs to any talk of who will start is “it’s an open competition” etc.

TT’s handling of the locker situation - wanting a clear, tangible reminder to all that Favre is done.

TT making sure Favre’s retirement ceremony would take place as soon as possible - the first game of the season.

TT drafting 2 QBs in the draft. For a guy who “never drafts for need”, this appears to be an extra obvious message to Favre that the team is attempting to move on.

TT’s non-verbals during the whole retirement announcement process. I got a fairly strong sense that he simply was not that INTO the whole retirement, tribute, adoration period like most of the rest of the football world.

The straight comments from Favre’s family and agent that it was clear the Packers didn’t want him back. They said it then and they’ve said it as recently as yesterday (WISN news and FOX 6 both carried phone conversations with family members indicating the Packers didn’t do enough to convince Favre that he was wanted back). Given that McCarthy is on record stating he and Clements tried hard to convince Favre, when Favre and family members say “the Packers” didn’t do enough, clearly, this leaves only one person in a position power for them to be referring to: TT.

Rodgers is TT’s guy. TT drafted him and has pushed for Rodgers to succeed and one day be the guy.

The fact that Jason Wilde and many other writers are pointing out that the Packers likely won’t take Favre back. How Favre’s potential return is handled is something that is determined by TT ultimately and so when these writers state that they have inside sources indicating Favre’s return would not be welcomed by the Packers, what they are saying essentially is that TT does not want him back. Period.

I know there are those of you out there who may be frustrated that I am posting this and seemingly siding with Favre. That’s not quite true. While I wouldn’t be averse to Favre returning because I think he could lead this team to the Super Bowl, and while I do think TT has not wanted Favre on the team for a while now, I do think Favre has handled this situation poorly. A quiet part of me hopes that what he said today, that this is all just a rumor, is true so that he can preserve his well-deserved legacy and the Packers can move forward with an exciting young QB.

Both sides have handled this poorly. Both sides, in fact, are meta-messaging. What is meta-messaging? Well, frankly, it is a method of communication often exhibited by females. (Sorry female packergeeks readers, I’m just regurgitating info I learned from a communication seminar once…given by a female). The basic premise is that women, for whatever reason, sometimes do not communicate directly what is it they want or what it is they are thinking. For example, if your wife wants to stop at the ice cream shop she won’t say, “let’s stop there and get ice cream”. Instead, she says, as you drive by, “boy it’s sure crowded there, perfect summer night, those people seem to be enjoying themselves”. A few blocks later, the husband, who as usual was not being a good listener, realizes maybe his wife meant she wanted ice cream. When he asks if this is the case, his wife responds, pouting, “no, it’s too late now anyway”. Then wife is mad and husband is frustrated.

Anyway, my point is this: both TT and Favre are meta-messaging and we as fans are left to devour internet rumors and speculation in hopes of uncovering the truth. If either would just come out and say what’s really going on, maybe this whole thing could move forward in a more constructive way. But both sides are afraid to say something likely because they don’t want to look bad in the eyes of NFL/Packer fans. Problem is, this growing uncertainty re the truth is fostering some pretty strong reactions from fans - just listen to any sports talk radio station.

Here’s my best effort at the real truth here: after Favre’s poor 2005 season, TT wanted Favre out. Then due to the excitement generated by the strong finish at the end of the 2006 season, TT decided for PR reasons that he shouldn’t push Favre out like he had been planning to do, but instead gave barely noticeable support to a Favre return. Then, after the 2007 season, TT had further resolved to get Favre out (though it’s hard to imagine why a GM would want to usher out the 4th rated passer who took his team to the NFC Championship game). Throughout the off-season, TT did his best to dodge public questions re his stance on Favre’s return for 2008. But the truth is, he has wanted him out for a while now and when Favre finally decided to retire, TT moved swiftly (as we’ve pointed out above) to move on. Now, I suspect that Favre is actually just putting out feelers to see how a possible return would be received by the team/fans. I wonder a bit if he is intentionally trying to put pressure on the fans to put pressure on TT and the team to welcome him back. I don’t suspect he is itching to play elsewhere (as it seems only really crappy teams have major QB needs).

Either way, this situation is just not sitting well with me or really, any of the fans who have weighed in on this. (Oh, and by the way, read this from Rob Demovsky today - our guess is you’ll see more and more articles like this as it all shakes out).

[vince]

Here's a USA Today piece, written by Rob Demovsky with contributions by Pete Dougherty and Mike Vandermause on the subject.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2008-07-02-favre-retirement_N.htm

Inside Favre's decision making: Rift with Packers GM a factor
Brett Favre's apparent desire to return to the NFL shouldn't come as a major surprise considering what has transpired over the last five months.
Although Green Bay Packers spokesman Jeff Blumb said "the Packers have no reaction" to ESPN's report that Favre has an "itch" to come out of retirement and play for the team again, multiple people with knowledge of the situation confirmed to the Green Bay Press-Gazette that Favre has inquired about returning to the Packers.

According to those with knowledge, Favre was wishy-washy about retiring in the weeks following the Packers' loss to the New York Giants in the NFC Championship Game. Like the previous two offseasons, Favre told coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson that he was thinking about quitting. The two previous years, McCarthy or Thompson — and sometimes both — made strong attempts to talk Favre out of it.

This year, things were different, according to those with information about the team's relationship with Favre. Thompson hardly communicated with the quarterback in the offseason, which upset Favre, but McCarthy maintained regular contact with him. In March, when Favre told the Packers he was planning to quit, they made little or no effort to talk him out of it. So on March 4, he announced his retirement and two days later held a tearful farewell news conference at Lambeau Field.

However, doubt about his decision persisted. Thompson visited Favre at his Hattiesburg, Miss., home in May and, according to those with information about the meeting, Favre would have un-retired at that point had Thompson asked him to come back. But Thompson never broached the subject with him.

About two weeks ago, Favre called McCarthy to express his desire to return, but Favre was rebuffed. The Packers are reluctant to take Favre back for several reasons: They're concerned how it would affect Aaron Rodgers, Favre's replacement. They have already gone through an entire offseason preparing Rodgers, and they've adjusted the offense to suit his strengths.

All offseason, the Packers have done everything possible to try to move on from the Favre era. They chose the regular-season opener on Sept. 8 against Minnesota to retire his jersey. Time and again, McCarthy and Thompson have publicly backed Rodgers as their starting quarterback.

According to another person with knowledge, Favre's agent, Bus Cook, made repeated attempts to contact Thompson in the last few weeks, but Thompson did not return his calls. Cook did not return a message left at his office on Wednesday but told ESPN, "As far I know, right now, Brett Favre is retired and until he tells me something different, that's what it is."

Both McCarthy and Thompson were on vacation and could not be reached.

If Favre continues to express a desire to play and the Packers don't change their stance, it's unclear how strongly Favre would push for the team to trade him or release him. The quarterback is currently on the reserve-retired list. He is under contract through 2010, and the Packers would retain his rights for three seasons at the point in which he decided to return.

Favre's only response on Wednesday was a brief text message to the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun-Herald. When asked by the paper about the report about him wanting to return, Favre said, "It's all rumor." When asked about a possible media firestorm, Favre said, "No reason for it."

Packers cornerback Al Harris told ESPN that, "I've talked to Brett, and I know he has the itch to come back and play. If he will or not, I don't know. But I know he's feeling (like) he wants to play."

One of Favre's best friends from his playing days, former Packers center Frank Winters, said he spoke to Favre on Wednesday morning but claimed Favre made no mention of a possible return. When asked if he would be surprised if Favre decided to come back, Winters said: "Nothing surprises me in professional sports."

"Look at Michael Jordan," Winters continued. "He's taken a couple, three or four years (off), and came back. You never know. He may get bored with what he's doing. He may come back. He may not. He may just say, 'You know what, enough's enough. I just want to hang out and relax.' Last I talked to him, right now, it seems like he's had enough, and he's done and he's just going to sit back and enjoy and relax."

Favre's next scheduled appearance in Green Bay is on July 19 to present Winters for induction into the Packers Hall of Fame. It's unclear whether Wednesday's news will affect Favre's status for that event or any future appearances in town, including his jersey retirement ceremony.

[Bretsky]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

Sure, let's give him a pass on it all then



Give him a pass on what?


"it all"

Everything.....cuz he's Exec of the Year

We should not question anything and just assume it's all good. That is the underlying message I often receive (not from you for the record)

[Pugger]

Good lord. Why in the h3ll would an NFL GM want to run a sure fire first ballot HOF QB out of town who lead the team to the brink of the SB just weeks before??!! :beat: I don't believe any of this for a moment! :no:

Brett may have been miffed or disappointed that TT didn't get moss last summer but I'm sure his attitude changed once he began to play with the recievers and players TT surrounded him with! I read somewhere that MM and TT told Brett to take his time to decide. Some fans blast for TT cuz he didn't beg Brett to come back. If Brett needs to have TT or someone else plead with him to return maybe it is indeed time for Brett to call it a career. :roll:

[Bretsky]

AROD is his boy.

I think this statement is bunk. You could argue Ryan Grant is his boy, too, but as we all know, Grant still doesn't have a contract signed. And the number of vets that he has re-signed also make your statement thin, B.

I don't think TT is an egomaniac. If A-Rod doesn't pan out, he's gone. But he'll get a fair shake. What more should we fans expect of our GM?

TT has never claimed any credit for turning the franchise around from a cap nightmare full of overpaid has-beens and wannabe's. He always, ALWAYS talks in the "we" form and he has readily, though respectfully admitted screw ups along the way. I say respectfully, cause if a player hasn't panned out, TT has NEVER had an ill word about the player.

The way I view TT might be naive, but I think he's trying to do his job. I think he treats everyone of the players with the same level of respect and doesn't have favourites. He doesn't pamper anyone. He wants players that will give their all on the practice field, locker room and on Sundays.

And, he's damned right to do so, IMHO. Why? It would be damned impossible for M3 to bench a "Brett Favre".

You all know I admire Favre's Seattle performance - brilliant.

But I would have loved to have seen a hungry A-Rod in the 4th quarter against the Giants when it was absolutely clear to anyone that Favre was looking tired and cold all game long.

TT is handling his job better than 31 other GMs IMHO.


We just have to respectfully agree to disagree Tarlem; I have no proof....but I think TT was fine with Favre bowing out two years ago and more then fine with Favre bowing out this year. A lot of this is based off of the media and ESPN radio and what they have consistently reported over the past couple years. TT is IMO very hight on Rodgers; he was TT's 1st first round draft pick. TT IMO wants to move on. Today's article just posted by Vince..honestly...has a lot of my views in it. I'm not condemning TT for how he feels. He's our GM and can do with Favre how he pleases. It seems with this one there are not many in the middle ground. Either they are strongly for TT and are fine with him letting Favre go or they feel strongly TT should let Favre back. I don't blame either party. But I do think TT wants to sail his sea with AROD.

[Bretsky]

Here's a USA Today piece, written by Rob Demovsky with contributions by Pete Dougherty and Mike Vandermause on the subject.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2008-07-02-favre-retirement_N.htm

Inside Favre's decision making: Rift with Packers GM a factor
Brett Favre's apparent desire to return to the NFL shouldn't come as a major surprise considering what has transpired over the last five months.
Although Green Bay Packers spokesman Jeff Blumb said "the Packers have no reaction" to ESPN's report that Favre has an "itch" to come out of retirement and play for the team again, multiple people with knowledge of the situation confirmed to the Green Bay Press-Gazette that Favre has inquired about returning to the Packers.

According to those with knowledge, Favre was wishy-washy about retiring in the weeks following the Packers' loss to the New York Giants in the NFC Championship Game. Like the previous two offseasons, Favre told coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson that he was thinking about quitting. The two previous years, McCarthy or Thompson — and sometimes both — made strong attempts to talk Favre out of it.

This year, things were different, according to those with information about the team's relationship with Favre. Thompson hardly communicated with the quarterback in the offseason, which upset Favre, but McCarthy maintained regular contact with him. In March, when Favre told the Packers he was planning to quit, they made little or no effort to talk him out of it. So on March 4, he announced his retirement and two days later held a tearful farewell news conference at Lambeau Field.

However, doubt about his decision persisted. Thompson visited Favre at his Hattiesburg, Miss., home in May and, according to those with information about the meeting, Favre would have un-retired at that point had Thompson asked him to come back. But Thompson never broached the subject with him.

About two weeks ago, Favre called McCarthy to express his desire to return, but Favre was rebuffed. The Packers are reluctant to take Favre back for several reasons: They're concerned how it would affect Aaron Rodgers, Favre's replacement. They have already gone through an entire offseason preparing Rodgers, and they've adjusted the offense to suit his strengths.

All offseason, the Packers have done everything possible to try to move on from the Favre era. They chose the regular-season opener on Sept. 8 against Minnesota to retire his jersey. Time and again, McCarthy and Thompson have publicly backed Rodgers as their starting quarterback.

According to another person with knowledge, Favre's agent, Bus Cook, made repeated attempts to contact Thompson in the last few weeks, but Thompson did not return his calls. Cook did not return a message left at his office on Wednesday but told ESPN, "As far I know, right now, Brett Favre is retired and until he tells me something different, that's what it is."

Both McCarthy and Thompson were on vacation and could not be reached.

If Favre continues to express a desire to play and the Packers don't change their stance, it's unclear how strongly Favre would push for the team to trade him or release him. The quarterback is currently on the reserve-retired list. He is under contract through 2010, and the Packers would retain his rights for three seasons at the point in which he decided to return.

Favre's only response on Wednesday was a brief text message to the Biloxi (Miss.) Sun-Herald. When asked by the paper about the report about him wanting to return, Favre said, "It's all rumor." When asked about a possible media firestorm, Favre said, "No reason for it."

Packers cornerback Al Harris told ESPN that, "I've talked to Brett, and I know he has the itch to come back and play. If he will or not, I don't know. But I know he's feeling (like) he wants to play."

One of Favre's best friends from his playing days, former Packers center Frank Winters, said he spoke to Favre on Wednesday morning but claimed Favre made no mention of a possible return. When asked if he would be surprised if Favre decided to come back, Winters said: "Nothing surprises me in professional sports."

"Look at Michael Jordan," Winters continued. "He's taken a couple, three or four years (off), and came back. You never know. He may get bored with what he's doing. He may come back. He may not. He may just say, 'You know what, enough's enough. I just want to hang out and relax.' Last I talked to him, right now, it seems like he's had enough, and he's done and he's just going to sit back and enjoy and relax."

Favre's next scheduled appearance in Green Bay is on July 19 to present Winters for induction into the Packers Hall of Fame. It's unclear whether Wednesday's news will affect Favre's status for that event or any future appearances in town, including his jersey retirement ceremony.


Not surprised at any of this

[The Shadow]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

[GrnBay007]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

Is that strong GB ready for a huge blast by the media AND fans if there is any substance to this?

[The Shadow]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

Is that strong GB ready for a huge blast by the media AND fans if there is any substance to this?


Well, I think the GM you'd want would be the guy who doesn't let fan/media reaction get in the way of what's best for the team.

[GrnBay007]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

Is that strong GB ready for a huge blast by the media AND fans if there is any substance to this?


Well, I think the GM you'd want would be the guy who doesn't let fan/media reaction get in the way of what's best for the team.

True. Unless it really is all about ego.

[Scott Campbell]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

Is that strong GB ready for a huge blast by the media AND fans if there is any substance to this?


Well, I think the GM you'd want would be the guy who doesn't let fan/media reaction get in the way of what's best for the team.

True. Unless it really is all about ego.


Are you talking about Brett's, or Ted's?

[The Shadow]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.

Is that strong GB ready for a huge blast by the media AND fans if there is any substance to this?


Well, I think the GM you'd want would be the guy who doesn't let fan/media reaction get in the way of what's best for the team.

True. Unless it really is all about ego.

My impression has been that from the day Thompson was hired, he has been focused on getting the Packers to championship status. He also does not seem to be into the ego trip, since he keeps as low-key as you can get.
Now this might not be a popular decision (understatement!) with many Packer fans, but not allowing outside pressure (fans and media) to deter you from your goal is an admirable trait.
Might be right, might be wrong, but having the courage of your convictions is necessary for an exceptional GM.

[Bretsky]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.


You are very biased in your TT support and anti Favre sentiment with all of the prima donna comments. I don't agree with that. It is Favre's right to return and TT's right to do whatever he pleases.

I do agree that TT is a strong GM if he does, or already has, let Brett Favre know that the Packers do not want him.

[Deputy Nutz]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.


You are very biased in your TT support and anti Favre sentiment with all of the prima donna comments. I don't agree with that. It is Favre's right to return and TT's right to do whatever he pleases.

I do agree that TT is a strong GM if he does, or already has, let Brett Favre know that the Packers do not want him.

Thompson has the best gig in football. He is totally in charge of football operations without any interference from an owner. At this moment an owner would step in with Favre and go over his GM's head. I guarantee it. I don't think Murphy has the stones, and he really isn't in a position to do anything. In my opinion I wish he would, but I realize that he doesn't really have the power unless he threatens to fire Thompson and take him in front of the board of trustees.

I think Favre for the most part has been a good soldier. It must not have been easy going 4-12 in Thompson's first year, and coming back under a new coach in McCarthy. He knew time was closing in on him, and he wanted pieces put in plays to win. He made a few comments about Randy Moss. So I don't know how big of a prima donna Favre was being, but again Favre is a professional athlete, and a very very good one, and he probably expects to be catered to and babied. It is the way they are wired.

[swede]

If there is any substance to any of this, it would appear that Favre may have gone to the well once too often with the prima donna stuff, and had his bluff called by a strong GM.


You are very biased in your TT support and anti Favre sentiment with all of the prima donna comments. I don't agree with that. It is Favre's right to return and TT's right to do whatever he pleases.

I do agree that TT is a strong GM if he does, or already has, let Brett Favre know that the Packers do not want him.

Hello!???

Hasn't Brett been talking retirement for five years, finally making a decision to quit after having several chances to beat the Giants in the NFC championship game and then blowing it?

Didn't Brett hold a press conference and retire or did I just dream that?

In many, many things Brett was the best: strong-armed, tenacious, tough, durable, funny, and fun-loving.

He may be the worst-ever NFL superstar in terms of handling his own retirement. But every Packer fan forgave him every year even as the act started to wear thin. He was just thinking out loud as Brett always has.

However, if you are a Packer fan you should be a little annoyed with Brett now.

If you are not annoyed with Brett I question your commitment to the continued success of the Green Bay Packers. He has allowed controversy and distraction for his former teammates and coaches.

Most of the blame goes to the media, but after 17 years he could have stayed quiet for the good of the team. And if he really is harboring second thoughts about retirement and really does want to come back and play football he should play somewhere else. It didn't hurt Montana's legacy, it didn't hurt Reggie White's legacy, and it won't harm Brett's place in NFL history.

I never, ever, ever criticized Brett as a player, and I only mildy chastised him for the retirement crap every year. But once again, I am surprised at those who would assign responsibility for this controversy, and its negative effects on the team, to anyone other than Brett.

[MJZiggy]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

[Scott Campbell]

DP

[swede]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

I think that is a very reasonable position, Zig.

I'd like to think that by this stage in his career Brett is able to talk to the media without startin' stuff even inadvertently.

This may come down to what you think when you read or hear someone relate to you that Brett retired because he felt like the team didn't want him.

Some people think, "Aha! TT DID want Brett gone!"

And some people think, "Fer cryin' out loud, Brett, you're one of the best to ever play the game. Play or don't play. We'll support you either way."

I'm more in the second camp. It only makes sense that the team was ready to tell Brett to do what wanted because the team was now ready to move in either direction--with or without him. If that position hurt his feelings then Brett Favre's sense of professional pride tipped all the way over into prima dona territory, and I have never ever thought of him that way.

[Bretsky]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

I think that is a very reasonable position, Zig.

I'd like to think that by this stage in his career Brett is able to talk to the media without startin' stuff even inadvertently.

This may come down to what you think when you read or hear someone relate to you that Brett retired because he felt like the team didn't want him.

Some people think, "Aha! TT DID want Brett gone!"

And some people think, "Fer cryin' out loud, Brett, you're one of the best to ever play the game. Play or don't play. We'll support you either way."

I'm more in the second camp. It only makes sense that the team was ready to tell Brett to do what wanted because the team was now ready to move in either direction--with or without him. If that position hurt his feelings then Brett Favre's sense of professional pride tipped all the way over into prima dona territory, and I have never ever thought of him that way.

I'm not really annoyed at Brett or TT

To be honest this is all intriguing because normally offseasons for Packer talk is dead.

I have a multitude of beliefs which add to me not being irked. I think the Packer brass pushed Favre to make a call too early and I think TT may have been cold enough to make Favre feel unwanted. Personally I think if there was any doubt Favre should have just said "I'm coming back" as he could have always stated "burout in July, August, or Sept" and retired later...but he didn't. So my feelings are mixed.

I don't rip Favre for wanting to come back...as it appears he does...and I'm not going to be pissed at TT for not wanting Favre back and figuring he'll move on.

[swede]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

I think that is a very reasonable position, Zig...



I'm not really annoyed at Brett or TT


I don't rip Favre for wanting to come back...as it appears he does...and I'm not going to be pissed at TT for not wanting Favre back and figuring he'll move on.

I'm partly annoyed because I came to this news a bit late and I told everyone it sounded like nothing. If it isn't nothing Brett makes me look bad. If Brett Favre quarterbacks this team next year my mother-in-law, who knows zero about football other than her love of Brett Favre, will rip me again and again about who knew best.

I'd hate that.

[Bretsky]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

I think that is a very reasonable position, Zig...



I'm not really annoyed at Brett or TT


I don't rip Favre for wanting to come back...as it appears he does...and I'm not going to be pissed at TT for not wanting Favre back and figuring he'll move on.

I'm partly annoyed because I came to this news a bit late and I told everyone it sounded like nothing. If it isn't nothing Brett makes me look bad. If Brett Favre quarterbacks this team next year my mother-in-law, who knows zero about football other than her love of Brett Favre, will rip me again and again about who knew best.

I'd hate that.


Ouch; it would suck to be on receiving end of the I told you so's from the In Law

When Favre was young I saw huge potential and when he was struggling they were screaming to bench him and I fought them tooth and nail against their idea that Brunnell or Detmer should start. So I hold the I told you so card......as least now :lol:

[MJZiggy]

Good thing you never told them how you felt about what the Turtle was gonna do to the team last year... :lol:

[Bretsky]

Good thing you never told them how you felt about what the Turtle was gonna do to the team last year... :lol:

I think they try to avoid pro football talk with me now :lol:

[MJZiggy]

Smart people...

[bobblehead]

I'm holding off being annoyed with Brett temporarily until I find out a few things:

1. Did he mean what he said when he texted the SH? Did he really text Mort to tell him that he was staying retired (If he did, this whole mess is on Mort, who simply doesn't want his big story going away yet)?

2. IF the answers to #1 are no and no, then did he really talk with M3 2 weeks ago about returning? If so and it wasn't just a courtesy call, then he shouldn't have said it was just a rumor.

I think that is a very reasonable position, Zig...



I'm not really annoyed at Brett or TT


I don't rip Favre for wanting to come back...as it appears he does...and I'm not going to be pissed at TT for not wanting Favre back and figuring he'll move on.

I'm partly annoyed because I came to this news a bit late and I told everyone it sounded like nothing. If it isn't nothing Brett makes me look bad. If Brett Favre quarterbacks this team next year my mother-in-law, who knows zero about football other than her love of Brett Favre, will rip me again and again about who knew best.

I'd hate that.

I think I know her. Did she also constantly brag about how much she knew about basketball cuz she was a huge jordan/bulls fan?

[Tarlam!]

I would have liked to see a better prepared team from MM in the Giants game.

I would have liked for our WR's to have gotten a sliver of separation against a less than stellar secondary.

I would have liked for our O-line to actually make a freakin run block.

I would have liked for our D to have played with some kind of EMOTION.

I would have liked for our defensive coordinator to adjust when he see's the same thing happen a BILLION freakin times.

I would have liked for Harris to keep his mouth shut while PB was schooling him.

I would have liked a stronger commitment to the run.


Why is it so hard for you to comprehend it's a TEAM game? It really is not that difficult a concept.

Blaming Favre for that loss is MORONIC and shows a complete lack of understanding for the game of pro football, yet you take your little cheap shots at him every chance you get.

EVERYONE from the coaches to the players SUCKED in that game! If blaming everyone is to complicated a task for you, then blame the main guy responsible- AL HARRIS.

Of course in your brain, may-be you firmly believe it was Favre providing coverage (or lack there of) on PB???????????????????


Pretty good post here from Packnut. I can't say I disagree with any of it, except that you feel I blame soley Favre for the last loss. It would be equally absurd to suggest Favre was completely alone against Seattle.

What I will continue to believe, despite my moronic ways and complete lack of understanding of the game is the the veteran LEADER of the team looked cold and tired GOING INTO THE FIRST SNAP. And it got worse, not better as the game progressed.

You consider that a cheap shot? OK, well, I would just call it my opinion. Considering I singled Favre out for the highest praise in the Seattle game, I think I am trying to position my opinion as unbiased.

[Partial]

The team is good enough to play for today. Favre is the better option than A-Rod. If you want to play for two or three seasons from now, then go with A-Rod. In a situation like this though, playing for tomorrow is the kind of short-sighted thinking that has kept the Brewers out of the playoffs for 20 years.

[vince]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/PKR07/807060623/1058/PKR01

Mike Vandermause column: Favre's circle targets Thompson as fall guy

Brett Favre's desire to return to the NFL has produced a new round of criticism directed at Green Bay Packers General Manager Ted Thompson.

The latest heat is coming from Favre family members and friends, who are suggesting the quarterback's retirement in March was not only welcomed, but encouraged.

"He has felt like that for the last couple of years, that the Packers didn't really want him back," his mother, Bonita Favre, told Milwaukee TV station WITI after it was reported Wednesday Favre was getting the itch to play again.

"But nothing has been said. You know it has just been bits and pieces throughout the last couple of years, things that would come up, and it just didn't seem like they went out of their way to keep him. It was kind of like, 'You're done.'"

Biloxi Sun Herald reporter Al Jones, a self-described friend of Favre's, added fuel to the fire in an interview on Milwaukee's WTMJ radio when he said Favre was forced into retirement by Thompson.

"It all comes down to Ted Thompson," Jones said. "The main thing is the man has shown no respect to perhaps the greatest quarterback in their franchise history. Brett's a little disappointed. He feels like he can still play. He knows he can still play."

Jones added that Favre has been working out, throwing passes every morning and doesn't want to play for any other team.

"When it's all said and done, Ted Thompson is the man to blame on all this," Jones said.

Thompson has been unavailable for comment since the latest Favre news broke. But in an interview before he left on vacation, I asked Thompson to respond to the perception the organization didn't do enough to talk Favre out of retiring.

"I never understood that, quite frankly," Thompson said. "We went about this offseason the way we have the last several, making sure Brett knew that Mike (McCarthy) and I both felt he's still a good player, can still play the game, can still win and that our team was going to be in a position to win.

"I think that's what a veteran looks for: Do we have a chance to win? And can I still play?

"Other than that, it's not my place to try to convince someone that they're making a bad decision or a good decision. It's my place to say, these are the facts as I see them, now it's up to you and Deanna to make your choice."

That suggests Thompson would have welcomed Favre back. Thus, it's puzzling that Bonita Favre and Jones are so critical of the Packers' general manager.

Was Thompson supposed to get down on his knees in March and beg Brett to return? That would be a ridiculous expectation.

Since when does a superstar quarterback need to be coddled? If Brett wanted to play but perceived he wasn't wanted, he should have drawn on his competitive nature to prove Thompson and the organization wrong.

It should be noted Favre went out of his way at his retirement press conference on March 6 to thank Thompson and absolve the Packers organization of playing a role in his departure.

"I know there's been comments and issues in the press lately about why I'm leaving," Favre said at the time, "whether or not the Packers did enough, whether or not Ted and Mike tried to convince me to stay. None of those things have anything to do with me retiring, and that's from the heart."

Jones admitted in his recent WTMJ interview that McCarthy tried to talk Favre into playing in March. So, if Favre had the full support of his coach, how can anyone make a credible claim that the organization forced the quarterback into retirement?

The landscape has changed over the past four months. After the Packers spent the offseason setting up their offense to highlight new starting quarterback Aaron Rodgers' strengths, it appears neither Thompson nor McCarthy is eager to see Favre return.

While we wait to see how this saga plays out, it's clear those closest to Favre are making Thompson out to be the fall guy. Whether Favre shares those sentiments remains to be seen.

Mike Vandermause is sports editor of the Press-Gazette.

[Bretsky]

Thanks for posting Vince; all interesting reads and nothing that should be surprising.

[vince]

Yeah B. Regardless of what happens, we'll all - well most of us - will be cheering on the Packers beginning in about a month.

[cpk1994]

BuBBLHEAD=HATER, :shock: Face it you don't like Favre, You have no sense of LOYALITY! What does a MAN who gave EVERTHING he had to give to a team, a city a state, have to prove anythng to a punk like you.

This is a TT thread, I was posting from that position. I wanted favre back and have said so, but now that he has missed OTA's, Minicamps, and announced his retirement I want him to stay that way. I wanted a COMMITTED BF back, not a wishy washy show up on sundays guy.

I have a huge sense of loyalty...to the packers. And I agree BF has absolutely NOTHING to prove to me, why would you even make that comment??

As far as you bursting out this way and calling me a punk and showing that you are reacting from emotion instead of logic I shouldn't have bothered responding, but since this is our first interaction I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I think if you put down the redbull and just read my post from the point of view.....hey, what exactly happened in bobbleheads opinion.....you might not get so worked up.Bobblehead, stop. You can't reason with the Favre loyalists. They will continue to call you names and not engage in civil discourse. I spent a whole thread proving that point.
Its just not worth it.

[MJZiggy]

I wonder what Lombardi would have done...

[Zool]

The team is good enough to play for today. Favre is the better option than A-Rod. If you want to play for two or three seasons from now, then go with A-Rod. In a situation like this though, playing for tomorrow is the kind of short-sighted thinking that has kept the Brewers out of the playoffs for 20 years.

Please dont. The Brewers were playing with a bottom 5th payroll in MLB for quite a few years. These 2 situations couldnt be any farther apart.

[Partial]

The team is good enough to play for today. Favre is the better option than A-Rod. If you want to play for two or three seasons from now, then go with A-Rod. In a situation like this though, playing for tomorrow is the kind of short-sighted thinking that has kept the Brewers out of the playoffs for 20 years.

Please dont. The Brewers were playing with a bottom 5th payroll in MLB for quite a few years. These 2 situations couldnt be any farther apart.

Thats fair. But the fact of the matter is this:

The window for the super bowl is small. We don't have a young super stud like Favre at QB, or a more recent example being McNabb to keep the window open longer.

In my opinion, we probably have two years. Do we think that A-Rod will be able to get us to the promise land in that time? I do not.

Favre gives us a much better chance at the title this year. You can worry about next year and the year after when it happens. I'd rather get a super bowl and go 2-14 next year than 10-6 both years and never get one.

Personally, I don't think the offense is very good without Favre. They'll have some talent definitely, but don't you think having the all-time best quarterback threading the needle and dictating a defense has a litlte something to do with it? I sure do.

Favre would have been the MVP last year if it was not for BB trying to stick it to the league and throwing for TDs when up by 30+ points. The MOST VALUABLE PLAYER in the league.

Many here seem bitter that he didn't play a great game against the Giants. Well, thats fair, but lets not forget that team went on and destroyed the all-time NFL greatest offense, and completely took two of the best offensive players in the league out of the game.

If A-Rod is going to bitch and moan about having Favre back, well then screw him. He's not mentally strong enough to handle being the QB in GB then.

[Partial]

I wonder what Lombardi would have done...

Are you F'ing kidding? He would have begged BF to come back, and sat A-Rod. He then would have told A-Rod to suck it up and ride the pine. He can play if he's better than Favre.

[Zool]

I agree that we'd prolly be better off with Brett this season, but this BS is getting tired year after year. My problem isn't with Brett's QB skills. This drama is getting old, and its really starting to seem like he enjoys it. If he had said in March that he was coming back, this wouldn't have happened.

Fuck it, what can ya do. Someone should make some sort of definitive public statement this week. You busy Tank?

[retailguy]

I wonder what Lombardi would have done...

Are you F'ing kidding? He would have begged BF to come back, and sat A-Rod. He then would have told A-Rod to suck it up and ride the pine. He can play if he's better than Favre.

The Lombardi that I know wouldn't have done any of this. Beg Favre to come back? :shock: NO CHANCE. You don't wanna play? He'd play someone who did want to play.

Without the desire to play, your other two points wouldn't have happened. Favre QUIT. He retired and walked away. He was done. Lombardi would have respected that, but not all the crap that's gone on since....

The drama is ridiculous & wrong. Thinking Vince would have participated in it is also incorrect. He wouldn't have. Even if it meant he'd have attained 1 win and the rest losses.

[The Shadow]

I wonder what Lombardi would have done...

Are you F'ing kidding? He would have begged BF to come back, and sat A-Rod. He then would have told A-Rod to suck it up and ride the pine. He can play if he's better than Favre.


Not the Vince Lombardi I remember - for sure!

[Partial]

Lombardi was a winner. You don't choose a soft boy over a proven, chiseled out of wood man. Lombardi isn't that stupid.

[Zool]

Lombardi was a winner. You don't choose a soft boy over a proven, chiseled out of wood man. Lombardi isn't that stupid.

Well this is just dumb. The teams and management had absolute control over a players destiny in the 60's. A player could either, play and shut up or quit.

[Patler]

Lombardi would have taken Favres call, put him on hold, then come back on the line and to tell him he'd been traded to Philadelphia! :lol:

[MJZiggy]

I was gonna say Cleveland!! :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

Thats fair. But the fact of the matter is this:

The window for the super bowl is small.


I thought the small window saying was used when you were close, and had a old roster. Our roster is young. Theoretically our window ought to stay open for a while.

[Scott Campbell]

I wonder what Lombardi would have done...

Are you F'ing kidding? He would have begged BF to come back, and sat A-Rod. He then would have told A-Rod to suck it up and ride the pine.



Lombardi begging a player to come back. I'm not quite picturing that one.

[Partial]

Thats fair. But the fact of the matter is this:

The window for the super bowl is small.


I thought the small window saying was used when you were close, and had a old roster. Our roster is young. Theoretically our window ought to stay open for a while.

I think you maybe have a two year window unless you have a young super duper star. The Eagles always got close with McNabb, and the Pack were close for 3 years in the early Favre years. Who else has been close for more than two years consistently unless they have a Tom Brady?

[Scott Campbell]

Thats fair. But the fact of the matter is this:

The window for the super bowl is small.


I thought the small window saying was used when you were close, and had a old roster. Our roster is young. Theoretically our window ought to stay open for a while.

I think you maybe have a two year window unless you have a young super duper star. The Eagles always got close with McNabb, and the Pack were close for 3 years in the early Favre years. Who else has been close for more than two years consistently unless they have a Tom Brady?


Nobody. Though I don't think our roster should theoretically be any better next year than 5 years from now.

[Scott Campbell]

Thats fair. But the fact of the matter is this:

The window for the super bowl is small.


I thought the small window saying was used when you were close, and had a old roster. Our roster is young. Theoretically our window ought to stay open for a while.

[cpk1994]

The team is good enough to play for today. Favre is the better option than A-Rod. If you want to play for two or three seasons from now, then go with A-Rod. In a situation like this though, playing for tomorrow is the kind of short-sighted thinking that has kept the Brewers out of the playoffs for 20 years.Kind of ironic you make that statement on the same day the Brewers end up landing C.C. Sabathia.

[bobblehead]

The team is good enough to play for today. Favre is the better option than A-Rod. If you want to play for two or three seasons from now, then go with A-Rod. In a situation like this though, playing for tomorrow is the kind of short-sighted thinking that has kept the Brewers out of the playoffs for 20 years.Kind of ironic you make that statement on the same day the Brewers end up landing C.C. Sabathia.

2 words: salary cap.

MLB doesn't have one and the crew will be losing a lot of talent soon. NFL does and we should be able to resign the most important pieces to stay competitive.

[Brainerd]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.

[Brainerd]

Are we forgetting Thompson was named Executive of the Year?

So was Bobby Beathard. Two years in a row. He was run out of San Diego as if he had just committed crimes against humanity.

TT has a similar future.

[swede]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.

Yes. TT's main job was to make sure that Brett Favre felt a constant flow of unending love. :roll:

Of course his main job might have been to make the Packers a team that is good now AND in the future.

[Packnut]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.

Yep, I noticed that too. Then again, how many of those same posters said Favre was done a few years ago? I can remember arguing constantly with them about it. Then, when I was proven right, very few of them had the class to admit to being wrong. Instead, the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM.

For whatever the reason, ignorance or stupidity, some just hate Favre and will take their childish shots at him every chance they get. It's sad and pathetic after what Favre has done for this organization.........

[Brainerd]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.

Yes. TT's main job was to make sure that Brett Favre felt a constant flow of unending love. :roll:

Of course his main job might have been to make the Packers a team that is good now AND in the future.

TT is that you? :roll: See? I can do that too.

[Scott Campbell]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.



Every bit of evidence? Didn't Vince just post this?





"Other than that, it's not my place to try to convince someone that they're making a bad decision or a good decision. It's my place to say, these are the facts as I see them, now it's up to you and Deanna to make your choice."

That suggests Thompson would have welcomed Favre back. Thus, it's puzzling that Bonita Favre and Jones are so critical of the Packers' general manager.

Was Thompson supposed to get down on his knees in March and beg Brett to return? That would be a ridiculous expectation.

Since when does a superstar quarterback need to be coddled? If Brett wanted to play but perceived he wasn't wanted, he should have drawn on his competitive nature to prove Thompson and the organization wrong.

It should be noted Favre went out of his way at his retirement press conference on March 6 to thank Thompson and absolve the Packers organization of playing a role in his departure.

[Scott Campbell]

I can remember arguing constantly with them about it. Then, when I was proven right, very few of them had the class to admit to being wrong. Instead, the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM.



I see. So who said the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM?




I must have missed those posts. :lol:

[Brainerd]

Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. Yet, all the TT lovers continue to rant that TT didn't want Favre gone. Too funny.



Every bit of evidence? Didn't Vince just post this?





"Other than that, it's not my place to try to convince someone that they're making a bad decision or a good decision. It's my place to say, these are the facts as I see them, now it's up to you and Deanna to make your choice."

That suggests Thompson would have welcomed Favre back. Thus, it's puzzling that Bonita Favre and Jones are so critical of the Packers' general manager.

Was Thompson supposed to get down on his knees in March and beg Brett to return? That would be a ridiculous expectation.

Since when does a superstar quarterback need to be coddled? If Brett wanted to play but perceived he wasn't wanted, he should have drawn on his competitive nature to prove Thompson and the organization wrong.

It should be noted Favre went out of his way at his retirement press conference on March 6 to thank Thompson and absolve the Packers organization of playing a role in his departure.

Vince also posted other, evidence. You have a search function. Use it. Don't stop searching cause it feels good. Search till it hurts.[/i]

[Brainerd]

I can remember arguing constantly with them about it. Then, when I was proven right, very few of them had the class to admit to being wrong. Instead, the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM.



I see. So who said the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM?




I must have missed those posts. :lol:

You did. You really, really did.

[Scott Campbell]

Vince also posted other, evidence.



Well of course he did. I never said other wise. You said:

"Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. "


I proved you to be factually incorrect. Maybe you exaggerated a little bit - huh?

[Scott Campbell]

I can remember arguing constantly with them about it. Then, when I was proven right, very few of them had the class to admit to being wrong. Instead, the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM.



I see. So who said the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM?




I must have missed those posts. :lol:

You did. You really, really did.


Is this a some kind of a straw man argument Brainhurt? :lol:

[Brainerd]

Vince also posted other, evidence.



Of course he did. I never said other wise. You said:

"Every bit of evidence that Vince and others have posted about this mess points to TT be very clear about wanting Favre gone. "


I proved you to be factually incorrect. Maybe you exaggerated a little bit - huh?

Overstated, maybe. If only you were as anal retentive to others as you are with me I wouldn't have to blink twice when I come to this board for Packers info. Sometimes I swear I accidently stumbled onto the Thompson Rats board by mistake.

[Scott Campbell]

Overstated, maybe.


Maybe? Maybe???


Dude, you were wrong. Ain't no maybe about it. Just man up and admit it.

[Brainerd]

Overstated, maybe.


Maybe? Maybe???


Dude, you were wrong. Ain't no maybe about it. Just man up and admit it.

Nope. Not wrong. Say what you will and twist how you want. Not wrong. One more time. Not wrong. Clear?

And I'll let you know when I would ever consider accepting a man-up from the likes of you. Um K?

[Scott Campbell]

Gotcha. Overstated - maybe. Not wrong.

And who's anal retentive now? Just like you said about those other poster's you didn't agree with - too funny!


:lol:

[Brainerd]

Gotcha. Overstated - maybe. Not wrong.

And who's anal retentive now?


:lol:

Who's only argument is to make fun of someone else's handle? Brainhurt? Come on. Don't worry. I understand about the feeble.

And for the last time you poor afflicted ADD man. Brainerd is a town in Minnesota. Make fun of Minnesota next. Um, K?

[Scott Campbell]

And I'll let you know when I would ever consider accepting a man-up from the likes of you. Um K?



Here's Scott's take on this point. You man up and admit you are wrong solely on the merit of an argument. It shouldn't matter who you're arguing with.

[Brainerd]

And I'll let you know when I would ever consider accepting a man-up from the likes of you. Um K?



Here's Scott's take on this point. You man up and admit you are wrong solely on the merit of an argument. It shouldn't matter who you're arguing with.

The color of the sky in your world is still blue, right?

[Scott Campbell]

Make fun of Minnesota next. Um, K?



Who needs to make fun of Minnesota when you keep saying stuff like "Um, K".


:lol:

[Scott Campbell]

Who's only argument is to make fun of someone else's handle? Brainhurt? Come on. Don't worry. I understand about the feeble.


Here, I'll show you how it's done.


Yes, it was feeble - almost childish. I plead guilty as charged!


Notice that I changed it from Brainhurt.

[Brainerd]

Make fun of Minnesota next. Um, K?



Who needs to make fun of Minnesota when you keep saying stuff like "Um, K".


:lol:

Um, K.

You make fun of someone's handle because you have zero argument and then have the nerve, not balls, balls are certainly foreign to you unless of course they are slapping you in the face, to say man-up?

Um, K.

[The Leaper]

Arguing about what Vince Lombardi would've done is stupid. No one knows what Lombardi would've done in this circumstance.

I know that Lombardi would've liked Favre. I know that Lombardi would've done what he thought was best for the Packers. How those facts merge with the current situation...I have no idea.

[Scott Campbell]

Make fun of Minnesota next. Um, K?



Who needs to make fun of Minnesota when you keep saying stuff like "Um, K".


:lol:

Um, K.

You make fun of someone's handle because you have zero argument and then have the nerve, not balls, balls are certainly foreign to you unless of course they are slapping you in the face, to say man-up?

Um, K.


Good one! I'm starting to like you. Quick question - are they Harlan's balls? Because if they're not, I don't like you quite as much.

[Scott Campbell]

Who's only argument is to make fun of someone else's handle?


Only argument? There you go again - overstating - maybe?



My argument was that you were factually incorrect, and I proved it. :lol:

[Brainerd]

Who's only argument is to make fun of someone else's handle?


Only argument? There you go again - overstating - maybe?



My argument was that you were factually incorrect, and I proved it. :lol:

Your opinion is that I was factually incorrect. You proved it to yourself. Why you are going to such pains over a simple statement only you, in your little scott world, can understand.

The statement was against point of course. The point being much is being made of a rift betweeen TT and Favre. They, as far as we have been told, don't like each other much. Favre left because TT wanted to move on. Why can't you TT lovers simply admit that. So what? TT doesn't like Favre and wanted him gone. Big deal. Favre's done anyway so I would gather if this was the only place I came to for Packers info. Oh, and that TT has alot of very special friends here. Cool. No judgement.

[Scott Campbell]

The statement was against point of course. The point being much is being made of a rift betweeen TT and Favre. They, as far as we have been told, don't like each other much. Favre left because TT wanted to move on. Why can't you TT lovers simply admit that. So what? TT doesn't like Favre and wanted him gone. Big deal. Favre's done anyway so I would gather if this was the only place I came to for Packers info. Oh, and that TT has alot of very special friends here. Cool. No judgement.



I don't consider myself a TT lover. I agree with the bulk of what he's done so far, but I'll turn on him if he really starts screwing the franchise up. I want Ted to do well because I want the franchise to do well - not out of personal affection. Your (and lots of others) theory about Brett leaving - certainly plausible. Factual? I'm not ready to concede that, in large part because of the comments from Brett himself and him hosting Ted on a visit to his ranch in May. That doesn't jive neatly with the major rift theory. But again, I admit that the rift is certainly plausible.

[Fritz]

Couple things. First, I don't want to get into ripping Brett Favre just yet, because at this point he's been consistent about saying he wants to retire, that TT and MM are fine, and that the return alk is just rumor. The smoke seems to be coming from his family (and that Al Jones dude), and the media, which is always dying for a story to fill up the airwaves. So until Favre says otherwise, I am going to believe him. Now, if it turns out he is using his family members to air his grievances publicly, I will lose a whole lot of the respect he has earned from me over time. But at this point, I believe what Favre has said publicly.

Secondly, I'm curious as to why the family appears to want Favre to go back to football - at least his mother and brother. (Nothing from Deanna so far, or from his daughters.) Is it possible that the great NFL QB, the funny, loveable Brett Favre we all know, is actually a pain in the ass to have around the house? I don't think they'd want him back to make more money - they would all seem to have enough by now. So why? Is Brett annoying Mom? Is his brother Scott feeling like his turf's invaded? Is Brett becoming that annoying, clingy family member?

As for TT, I agree with his stance - as an adult, you state your beliefs (in this case, TT has said he's told Favre that TT thinks Favre can still play at a high level, and that the team has a chance to win.) All sides admit too that MM tried to talk Favre into coming back, back in March. Then you let the other person in the situation make a decision. That's how adults operate. If you start having to guess what the other person wants ("Gee, Brett says he wants to retire but I'm guessing he really just wants us to beg him to come back"), you're in a dysfunctional situation. In that scenario, everybody is guessing where everyone's really coming from. In the end, that doesn't work.

So let's wait and see for now. At this point, you don't have to choose TT or Brett.

[Scott Campbell]

Yep, I noticed that too. Then again, how many of those same posters said Favre was done a few years ago? I can remember arguing constantly with them about it. Then, when I was proven right, very few of them had the class to admit to being wrong. Instead, the teams success was all due to Teddy and MM.


I think Favre is the best player in the history of the franchise, and still easily capable of putting up a Probowl season. He was the best player on the team last year. My problem with Favre has always been about his role in this retirement debacle. Well, that and the couple of games that he seemed to stink in every year.

We all watched how gracefully he handled his addiction to painkillers, the tragic loss of his brother and father, and he and Deanna's public display of courage in the battle against breast cancer. And God was he fearless on the field. The dude was Superman - the bar was set pretty high.

So when all this crap started seemingly back in 1896 with his retirement talks to the media, I was naturally disappointed. He hasn't handed this nearly as well as every other public issue I've watched him handle. It's disappointing. I expected more. Especially after his "Javon should take one for the team" sermon.

Now the Packers are in a pickle. Ted had to replace Brett. Sooner or later he had to, or be derelict in his duties. It's his job, and any other GM would have had to do the same thing.

Was Brett slighted by Ted? Or was Brett just upset that the Packers are moving on without him? I honestly don't know. Maybe it was some of both. Too bad, because its a shitty way for him to go out.

[mraynrand]

Is it possible that the great NFL QB, the funny, loveable Brett Favre we all know, is actually a pain in the ass to have around the house?

Probably all that farting and the 'pulling pants down' gags got old pretty fast. Ole Favre is going to have to find something to do in retirement. Every washed up NFL star has to go through this stage. Favre probably hasn't figured out what to do. The Forrest Gump plan of mowing the rest of his life isn't going to cut it (pun intended).

[Fritz]

Excellent analysis, mraynrand.

Those I've spoken with who are retired and happy all say that the key is having a plan, or some goals. It might be traveling, or volunteer work, or writing that novel you've always wanted to, or learning to play the guitar - but there's got to be something more than sitting on a lawnmower.

Unless the real problem is that in Mississippi in July the best part of lawn mowing season is over. Maybe it's drying up a little and the grass is getting brown, so now Favre is restless.

Perhaps starting a lawn mowing business is the answer. He could go around to the neighbors' with his mower and offer to do their yards for twenty bucks or something.

[Scott Campbell]

Excellent analysis, mraynrand.

Those I've spoken with who are retired and happy all say that the key is having a plan, or some goals. It might be traveling, or volunteer work, or writing that novel you've always wanted to, or learning to play the guitar - but there's got to be something more than sitting on a lawnmower.


Oh come on. There's a lot more to Brett in retirement than just mowing the lawn. He likes to chase those pesky beavers too.

Seriously though, how hard is it to keep a redneck busy?


Fishing rod? Check.
Hunting rifle? Check.
Whoopee cushion? Check.
$45 million banked? Check.


He's all set.

[mraynrand]

Perhaps starting a lawn mowing business is the answer. He could go around to the neighbors' with his mower and offer to do their yards for twenty bucks or something.

Cut your grass, mister?

Oye!

I actually thought Favre might do well as a high school coach, but perhaps he's too much of a goof off for that. I wish the guy all the best trying to figure it out though. What do you do when the only thing you've ever done, and that you've done so well for all your life is suddenly over - and you could have well over half your life left?

[Fritz]

Excellent analysis, mraynrand.

Those I've spoken with who are retired and happy all say that the key is having a plan, or some goals. It might be traveling, or volunteer work, or writing that novel you've always wanted to, or learning to play the guitar - but there's got to be something more than sitting on a lawnmower.


Oh come on. There's a lot more to Brett in retirement than just mowing the lawn. He likes to chase those pesky beavers too.

Seriously though, how hard is it to keep a redneck busy?


Fishing rod? Check.
Hunting rifle? Check.
Whoopee cushion? Check.
$45 million in the bank? Check.


He's all set.

You forgot the John Deere tractor with the hedge hog.

[mraynrand]

There's a lot more to Brett in retirement than just mowing the lawn. He likes to chase those pesky beavers too.


So do I.

[Fritz]

Now if Zig or 007 would chime in with a similar comment, Bretsky could die happy.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, all that speculation on what would Vince Lombardi do, etc., it's interesting, but not really relevant to the topic.

These are uncharted waters for most GM's, so I can understand erring on the side of team vs. holding the team up while trying to figure out the mahcinations/intentions of Favre.

Did he or didn't he "force him out" (I thought they got rid of the force out rule anyway)?

It's sounding like TT agreed that he could still play, but wasn't going to massage his ego to get him to come back. Perhaps that's just TT's style, or perhaps he was trying to respect Favre's space and place as the franchise player and not put pressure on him, so he soft-sold it too much in an effort to show respect. Geez, TT is a good football mind. He doesn't seem like he boldly or brashly does anything, unless he's a public/private Jekyll and Hyde. He seems like he would understand the importance of a guy like Brett and if he thought the guy could still play/help the team win, he would have no problem wanting him back.

As many have said, Brett retired very publicly. I refuse to believe that he did this because he felt like the team didn't want him. You can hate on TT, but you can't just make stuff up to support your own hate. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts, unless they are with an ironclad source, one in the same.

OK, so here we stand about a month before training camp with a QB who may or may not have expressed a desire to come back with people in his camp stating that not enough was done to make him stay so he had no choice but retire. The thing that I can't get past with his Mom and other people sticking up for him and the apprarent "lack of front office support" is Brett has two more years on his contract, so he could have forced their hand by saying he wanted to come back and they would have had to make a decision on wheter to keep moving forward with him, trading or releasing him.

I'm pretty sure that the organization handled Favre reverently and with class and that Favre made a hard decision for him to make. None of us as fans have ever dealt with something like this, as we haven't ever had a Packer great who could play like this at an advanced age. Time and injuries usually make the decision for all-time greats, but not in this case.

It's a shame he has such a hard time deciding, but I can understand how it must be really hard to decide. Retirement is forever. If you love it, and can keep doing it, then keep going. The man's a freak, so who's to say he can't keep doin it?

As for TT, I think he is just in uncharted territory and is trying to balance his respect for Favre (and if you are that close to Brett, and be a former player, you'd probably respect him all the more) and his desire to move past the will he/wont he return that is an annual thing. All great things must come to an end, unless the man who makes the greatness keeps getting the itch. I say if he strongly wants to come back, have it be as a Packer. Let Rodgers wait. Sorry, dude, this is Brett Favre, and if he can still play at a high level, that's probably better than you'll ever be. No slight, man. We were close last year, we can be over the top this year and why not.

All he did was have a press conference. Since many of us didn't want to see him go anyway then I would gladly accept his mulligan for holding a premature presser. I don't want to ever see him go out an embarras himself, but I don't see him as being close to doing that.

BF must decide first, then TT has a tough decision to make, but I think it will all be done respectfully. I don't buy into the holdiing the team hostage crapola. I think it's one of the toughest decsions he'll ever make, since he is a hall of famer in waiting. TT just needs to focus on winning and if BF can help Green Bay do that. I think he can. Sorry A-Rod, this has to be torture.

[The Leaper]

To me, a lot of Favre's failure handling the retirement issue is due to the death of his father. Without Irv, I'm guessing Favre had a tough time finding someone to talk to about the issue from a fatherly viewpoint. Sure, he can get advice from Thompson or McCarthy or former players...but it isn't the same thing as having a talk with your dad, who understands YOU in an entirely different way than others do.

[Scott Campbell]

To me, a lot of Favre's failure handling the retirement issue is due to the death of his father. Without Irv, I'm guessing Favre had a tough time finding someone to talk to about the issue from a fatherly viewpoint. Sure, he can get advice from Thompson or McCarthy or former players...but it isn't the same thing as having a talk with your dad, who understands YOU in an entirely different way than others do.



I was thinking the same thing the other day, though never got around to writing about it. And his dad would have had no agenda. And Big Irv seemed like a no nonsense sort of guy, and might have helped him avoid all this nonsense.

[Scott Campbell]

You forgot the John Deere tractor with the hedge hog.



What's a hedge hog?

[The Shadow]

Lombardi would have taken Favres call, put him on hold, then come back on the line and to tell him he'd been traded to Philadelphia! :lol:

Exactly right. Ringo him.

[packinpatland]

Lombardi would have taken Favres call, put him on hold, then come back on the line and to tell him he'd been traded to Philadelphia! :lol:

Exactly right. Ringo him.


If memory serves.......Lombardi did that AFTER he found out Ringo hired an agent.
Vince would have never let this whole mess get to the state it's in.

[Fritz]

You forgot the John Deere tractor with the hedge hog.



What's a hedge hog?

Oh - also known as a "brush hog." Sorry. Local parlance.