Baby Boomers and the 60's

[oregonpackfan]

I just finished reading a fascinating book about Baby Boomers and the 60’s. It is entitled BOOM!: Voices of the Sixties—Personal Reflections on the ‘60s and Today. It was written by respected broadcast journalist Tom Brokaw who also wrote the critically acclaimed book The Greatest Generation.

In Boom!, Brokaw covers race, the Vietnam War, feminism, politics, popular culture, and music. He particularly focusus on the tumultuous year of 1968 which saw the Tet Offensive of the Vietnam War, the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy, and the riots of the Democratic National convention in Chicago.

Brokaw spent a considerable amount of time interviewing the individual 60’s members 35-40 years after that decade. Trying to capture all sides of the political spectrum, Brokaw not only interviews the “radical” members of that era but the conservative Baby Boomers such as Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney.

Some of your younger posters who have Baby Boomers as parents may wish to read this book to get a perspective of what it was like to be a young adult during this era.

As far as Packer history, the 60's were the era of the Lombardi glory years. Some of the best teams in Packers history played druing the 60's. At times, it was great to follow the Packer games just to be an enjoyable diversion from all the turmoil happening in the country.

It truly is a fine book by Brokaw and worth reading.

[texaspackerbacker]

I haven't read it, but I intend to--with an open mind. I, however, was there and lived through that time, and I WILL BE THE JUDGE of whether it is a rare bit of objective history written by a person with a thoroughly lousy record of even-handedness and lack of bias, or whether it's just another piece of liberal revisionist history crap.

Depending how long it takes me to find it, 3 days to a week should be enough for me to read it and come to a conclusion.

[Patler]

It is extremely difficult to explain to someone what the '60s were like. Words like turbulent, tumultuous and the like really don't convey the feelings that one had. Daily reports of death totals from Vietnam, and from the streets of our own cities. The race riots were scary things. There were peaceful, but uneasy demonstrations with hundreds of thousands of people showing up to emphsize the problems regarding race, the sexes, the poor or to demonstrate against the war. These too often became violent. Assassinations and attempted assassinations were all to common. Bombings everywhere, churches, houses, armed forces recruiting stations, campus buildings including Madison.

The National Guard was activated to protect many of our cities and campuses. Our own military had to be called out to protect us from ourselves. Shootings resulted, including Kent State (technically, not the '60s; it happened in 1970). The Guard was a permanent fixture in Madison, which was a very, very active campus in social concerns.

The cold war was at it hottest, and there was a strong paranoia among many regarding communism. The arms race was full bore to see who could stockpile enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world 10 times over. We had the Cuban missile crisis when military confrontation with Russia seemed certain. We had the Manson murders in California, many, many killings in the south over segregation. Mass murders were common, with the likes of Richard Speck in Chicago, the Boston Strangler, and the Zodiac killer. Of course there was also Charles Whitman killing and injuring so many from the University of Texas Tower.

Every six months to a year a new milestone in the space race. Chimps into space, men into space, first orbital flight, first multi-day journey, first two-man capsule, first three-man capsule, first docking in space, first trip to the moon and back without landing, and finally landing. TV coverage was intense.

We were simultaneously thrilled, excited, apprehensive and fearful.

I know these things continue to happen today, but not at the rate they did then. It seems that as much happened, both good and bad, in the 1960s as in the 40 years since then.

Sorry for the ramblings of an old goat. I have often tried to explain the 1960s to my kids, but can never really get the feelings across to them.

[MJZiggy]

That explanation's not bad...

[mraynrand]

I think the contrast of reaching the moon and campus riots pretty much sums it up. You had one of the wealthiest most comfortable societies in the history of the world that bred a generation split between achievers and narcissists - the achievers went to the moon, while the narcissists chained themselves to campus buildings and made demands. Foolish university leaders caved, essentially legitimizing quasi-terrorist activity by student activists. You had U.S. administrations that essentially lied about the Viet Nam war and useful idiot newscasters who did the same in an effort to end the conflict. You had people with no accountability demanding it from others. You had the classic liberalism of Marin Luther King - an effective, rational, inarguable push for equality of opportunity rights. And you had the dawn of modern liberalism - people who pushed for radical individualism and extreme egalitarianism at the same time, oblivious to their inherent incompatibilities.

[Scott Campbell]

Ah, the 60's. I remember Mr. Rodgers, the Three Stooges, All Star Wrestling, Bowling With The Champs and Rock'm Sock'm Robots.

For the previous posters/fossils in this thread - what's all this stuff about riots?

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, I found somebody to borrow the book from without having to actually buy it. I'm read the book jacket and part of the first chapter, and I've guardedly optimistic that it won't turn out to be a blatant leftist piece of trash. Brokaw, so far, surprisingly to me, seems to be keeping it fairly factual and unbiased.

Patler, good job above of summing up that time in history. What you did NOT say--or at least emphasize--is that all of those well known events and revolutionary attitudes and feelings were very distant and of little relevance to the huge majority of Americans who simply went about their business and lived their lives.

I was at the University of Wisconsin for four years in the sixties--one of the epicenters of all the sick shit they talk about in the sixties, and I'm here to tell you, for about 95% of us, all that antiwar and counter-culture crap, etc. meant exactly nothing. It was nothing more than good theater a couple of days when the damned longhairs and New Yorkers acted up and the cops and national guard slapped them down hard.

Will the book point that out--that all the well known crap was only important to a tiny minority of people? I don't know yet, but I'm still reading.

[MJZiggy]

Ah, the 60's. I remember Mr. Rodgers, the Three Stooges, All Star Wrestling, Bowling With The Champs and Rock'm Sock'm Robots.

For the previous posters/fossils in this thread - what's all this stuff about riots?

Apparently they had a war...(that's what they tell me anyway).

[oregonpackfan]

Ah, the 60's. I remember Mr. Rodgers, the Three Stooges, All Star Wrestling, Bowling With The Champs and Rock'm Sock'm Robots.

For the previous posters/fossils in this thread - what's all this stuff about riots?

Apparently they had a war...(that's what they tell me anyway).

The Vietnam War captured the attention of the American public far more than the Iraq War. During the Vietnam War, there was a draft versus the volunteer army of today.

The American casualties were more than 16 times higher in the Vietnam War. American service people killed in Vietnam were 58,000+ compared to the 4,100+ American service people killed thus far in Iraq.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ah, the 60's. I remember Mr. Rodgers, the Three Stooges, All Star Wrestling, Bowling With The Champs and Rock'm Sock'm Robots.

For the previous posters/fossils in this thread - what's all this stuff about riots?

Apparently they had a war...(that's what they tell me anyway).

The Vietnam War captured the attention of the American public far more than the Iraq War. During the Vietnam War, there was a draft versus the volunteer army of today.

The American casualties were more than 16 times higher in the Vietnam War. American service people killed in Vietnam were 58,000+ compared to the 4,100+ American service people killed thus far in Iraq.

Comparing death tolls between the two is foolish..and so 20th century.

Technology has made the death toll drop dramatically..but, the # of injured has risen instead.

Currently about 41K injured. Lot more money will be spent on them...flying them out of Iraq to Germany, operations, rehab, prosthetics, insurance, etc.

Gonna cost us a bundle.

[Patler]

Comparing death tolls between the two is foolish..and so 20th century.

Technology has made the death toll drop dramatically..but, the # of injured has risen instead.

Currently about 41K injured. Lot more money will be spent on them...flying them out of Iraq to Germany, operations, rehab, prosthetics, insurance, etc.

Gonna cost us a bundle.

The number injured in Viet Nam is generally reported to have been about 450,000.

[Patler]

Will the book point that out--that all the well known crap was only important to a tiny minority of people? I don't know yet, but I'm still reading.

I disagree with you completely. It was unimportant primarily only to self-absorbed individuals who didn't realize what was going on around them and who cared only for themselves.

If you were isolated from it, lucky you. Most were not so lucky, and were affected in very personal ways by the events of the '60s.

[texaspackerbacker]

Will the book point that out--that all the well known crap was only important to a tiny minority of people? I don't know yet, but I'm still reading.

I disagree with you completely. It was unimportant primarily only to self-absorbed individuals who didn't realize what was going on around them and who cared only for themselves.

If you were isolated from it, lucky you. Most were not so lucky, and were affected in very personal ways by the events of the '60s.

Me and about 98% of the rest of us "self-absorbed individuals"--a.k.a. normal average apolitical America-loving people--the ones not doing drugs, protesting the war/spitting on their country, etc.

I was hardly isolated. I had a front row seat to see the worst of the assholes--on display in Madison long before it was known as MadTown. It really was no big deal, though.

[Harlan Huckleby]

i think the 60's were pretty damn awful. People were so polarized.

The cold war caused our country to do a lot of stupid and immoral things.

But then again, the cold war was no joke.

Leftist carried around pictures of STalin and especially Mao. Now I know from chinese friends what Mao was really about.

IT was a horrible time where people on the left and right each thought they held all the moral highground. And they were both wrong.

[texaspackerbacker]

i think the 60's were pretty damn awful. People were so polarized.

The cold war caused our country to do a lot of stupid and immoral things.

But then again, the cold war was no joke.

Leftist carried around pictures of STalin and especially Mao. Now I know from chinese friends what Mao was really about.

IT was a horrible time where people on the left and right each thought they held all the moral highground. And they were both wrong.

Harlan, that's about the most shameful piece of moral equivalence bullshit I've ever seen you post.

Communism was/is pure evil. For you to insinuate that we somehow did NOT have the moral high ground is absolutely disgraceful. And where in the hell do you get off with crap like "The cold war caused our country to do a lot of stupid and immoral things"? That's just plain idiotic and damn un-American to say.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan, that's about the most shameful piece of moral equivalence bullshit I've ever seen you post.

Nah, I can do better. :lol:

I do agree with you that in the big picture, the west had the moral high ground over communism.

But we also supported wretched dictators around the world in the name of the cold war. And Vietnam was a mistake, even if it was done with good intentions.

The list of U.S. abuses around the world was long. I'm not making any moral equivalencies, just pointing out the obvious truth that it was a morally confused time.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll go along with you on the necessary evil of propping up some pretty rotten, but non-Communist dictators.

As for the abuses, though, that's just a bunch of revisionist bullshit spewed by the leftist media and education establishment--the same kind of despicable lies put out by God damned John Kerry about our troops in Vietnam.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As for the abuses, though, that's just a bunch of revisionist bullshit spewed by the leftist media and education establishment--the same kind of despicable lies put out by God damned John Kerry about our troops in Vietnam.

tell that to the torture victims of Pinochet.

[texaspackerbacker]

You're pinning THAT on America?

Besides, if there's anything that "needs killin'" more than a criminal--and maybe some torture too, it's a God damned Communist. And that--the followers of the Communist, Allende--was who was getting tortured and killed in Chile for the most part.

[Patler]

Me and about 98% of the rest of us "self-absorbed individuals"--a.k.a. normal average apolitical America-loving people--the ones not doing drugs, protesting the war/spitting on their country, etc.

I was hardly isolated. I had a front row seat to see the worst of the assholes--on display in Madison long before it was known as MadTown. It really was no big deal, though.

98%, huh?

I was tear gassed in Madison while simply walking on campus, not participating in anything other than responding to an invitation from one of the UW Departments to come there. I was there numerous times in the mid and late '60s, and frequently had to avoid sit-ins, demonstrations and National Guard lines. If you didn't, you must have been hiding in your dorm.

I was one of the "normal average apolitical (mostly) America-loving people--the ones not doing drugs, protesting the war/spitting on their country, etc." Yet, I buried 3 classmates and 2 relatives because of the '60s. I was not unusual in that regard.

I did not protest or demonstrate, but due to circumstances was put into a position where I had to chose between two positions. I did, and was threatened as a result. Not a hot-headed threat that could be ignored, it was a promise, a real promise.

You weren't affected in the least by the riots of the '60s? Where were you? They were everywhere, big cities and small, southern and midwest. The widespread looting, destruction of block after block in dozens of cities didn't give you pause? Police and National Guard responding, people dieing didn't affect you?

You didn't think at all about the kids killed in the bombings in the south, the murders of people doing nothing more than registering black voters?

You didn't wonder what was to happen when Wallace attempted to keep the University of Alabama all-white?

You didn't worry when the US and the Soviet Union were on the brink of war over the placement of missiles in Cuba?

If none of that affected you, you were self-absorbed.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was in Madison from Fall of '65 until Spring of '69. There were exactly two days in that time period of significant protesting--that needed to be busted up. And only one of those had the Guard called in.

I was in the doorway of the School of Commerce (now School of Business) cheering on the Madison cops as they gassed the God damned long haired weirdos--most of them New Yorkers and other east coast types. I got a few whiffs that day too. I also got in a few good punches and kicks to the heads of the God damned Commie trash blocking the doorway to my classroom building--where Dow Chemical job interviews were being held.

Maybe YOU were so self-absorbed that you didn't notice yourself blundering into a veritable war zone. Or maybe you had some sympathy/empathy for the gassees.

[Iron Mike]

All I remember from the 60s is going down to Hansen's gas station on West Main Street to get a dime candy bar:

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-05/seven-up-bar.jpg


Oh, and we used to have a Mars restaurant downtown. Anybody remember Marty Martian???

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Comparing death tolls between the two is foolish..and so 20th century.

Technology has made the death toll drop dramatically..but, the # of injured has risen instead.

Currently about 41K injured. Lot more money will be spent on them...flying them out of Iraq to Germany, operations, rehab, prosthetics, insurance, etc.

Gonna cost us a bundle.

The number injured in Viet Nam is generally reported to have been about 450,000.

I think you meant this for oregon...as i posted nothing about death tolls in viet nam.

However, if you want to go down that route..you are talking south vietnam civs and ARVN.

However, perhaps we should be posting the death tolls for iraqi's supporting our troops and civilian casualties. Current civ deaths from violence..around 85-95K.

[Iron Mike]

All I remember from the 60s is going down to Hansen's gas station on West Main Street to get a dime candy bar:

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-05/seven-up-bar.jpg



I also remember my Mom taking me to Downtown Green Bay. I can remember being in Woolworth's and Kaap's Restaurant:

http://www.kaapscandies.com/images/KapWst.jpg

[The Shadow]

I WAS the 60's.