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Harlan Huckleby
07-13-2008, 11:42 PM
My Plan for Iraq
By BARACK OBAMA
Published: July 14, 2008, NY Times

THE call by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for a timetable for the removal of American troops from Iraq presents an enormous opportunity. We should seize this moment to begin the phased redeployment of combat troops that I have long advocated, and that is needed for long-term success in Iraq and the security interests of the United States.

The differences on Iraq in this campaign are deep. Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president. I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion. Our military is overstretched. Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown.

In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness.

But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge.

The good news is that Iraq’s leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq’s security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.

Only by redeploying our troops can we press the Iraqis to reach comprehensive political accommodation and achieve a successful transition to Iraqis’ taking responsibility for the security and stability of their country. Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government.

But this is not a strategy for success — it is a strategy for staying that runs contrary to the will of the Iraqi people, the American people and the security interests of the United States. That is why, on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war.

As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal.

In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments. As I have often said, I would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government to ensure that our troops were redeployed safely, and our interests protected. We would move them from secure areas first and volatile areas later. We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees.

Ending the war is essential to meeting our broader strategic goals, starting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban is resurgent and Al Qaeda has a safe haven. Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been. As Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently pointed out, we won’t have sufficient resources to finish the job in Afghanistan until we reduce our commitment to Iraq.

As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan. We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there. I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

In this campaign, there are honest differences over Iraq, and we should discuss them with the thoroughness they deserve. Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea, and would redeploy our troops out of Iraq and focus on the broader security challenges that we face. But for far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender.

It’s not going to work this time. It’s time to end this war.

Harlan Huckleby
07-14-2008, 12:07 AM
Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president.

You are going to ride in on a white horse and end the war? The only problem with this picture is that "the war", which is now really an effort to provide stability for a nation-building exercise, is winding down successfully on its own.


I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion.

I thought you were going to talk about your plan for Iraq? History will judge whether you were right four years ago.


In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness.

But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true.

WAIT JUST A COTTON PICKIN SECOND! There is no way that Iraq would be on a relatively peaceful path now without the successful shift in strategy that you opposed. You called for a rapid withdrawal of troops back in 2006 & 2007, which almost certainly would have led to all-out civil war. The party line then was that perhaps a civil war was inevitable, and the U.S. needed to get out of the way and let it happen.

And now you have the hutzpah to claim the mantle of the great man of peace who is going to end the war!?


Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government.

What in the hell are you talking about? It was reported late last week that Bush wants to withdraw between 1 and 3 combat battalions between now and January in response to improved security in Iraq and pressing needs in Afghanistan.

And regarding timetables, both Bush and McCain have expressed a ready williness to comply with Iraqi wishes. We have absolutely no choice but to do so.

Maliki does not want a hard timetable. And you don't want a hard timetable either. (Well, you lied and repeated your 16-months pledge recently to fool leftist supporters; but then you turned around and said again that of course all is subject to conditions. Same thing Maliki did.)

Uhhh, I'm not even going to get into your distortions about McCain's position regarding permanent bases. But let me just say that it is not your place to announce to the world that of course U.S. bases in Iraq are out of the realm of consideration. That just re-enforces the entirely FALSE perception that the U.S. is playing a destructive role in Iraq.

sheepshead
07-14-2008, 07:41 AM
He opposed the war. I love this because NOBODY WAS ASKING HIM! He was a damn state senator here. No one cares what he thought. He acts as if he voting on the same information the entire world had.

HowardRoark
07-14-2008, 08:25 AM
Obama tells us he was against going to war in Iraq, therefore, we should get out of Iraq right away.

This line of reasoning frightens me more than anything about this guy.

Deputy Nutz
07-14-2008, 09:54 AM
What a d-bag, he wasn't even a senator when we went to war, so his opinion means nothing, he would have been like all the others, besides Feingold and voted for the war, only to flip flop four years later, and say "I opposed the war all along, but I was sort of forced to vote on bad information, but I was against it!"

Harlan Huckleby
07-14-2008, 02:15 PM
We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees.

I re-read and found more to be angry about. The diplomatic situation has improved greatly in the last 6 months, the gulf Arab countries are finally opening embassies in Iraq. Iraq is dealing directly and effectively with Iran. Jesus, all of OBama's positions come from 2 or 4 years ago.

And what is this crap about sending $2B for refugees?? With the rise in oil prices, Iraq is now flush with cash. In fact, they have the strange and embarassing problem of not being able to spend the money they have! Money is piling up in the treasury, but they lack the infrastructure and organization to spend it. Billions in the bank, and 6 hours of electricity per day in Baghdad. So why would we be handing them 2 billion dollars?

OBama is a perfect ass. I detest his 100% phony campaign and positions.

texaspackerbacker
07-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Well, Obama ain't gonna be able to run and hide from these words.

He is completely on record now. He opposed the policy which has been and integral part of saving huge numbers of American lives from repeats of 9/11.

He would throw away all the progress made toward stability and normalcy in Iraq, thereby clearly indicating to our enemies what the policy of an Obama Administration would be.

Obama and the leftists will be brought down by their own arrogance here. Could they possibly think having the unvarnished truth about Obama's anti-American extremism get out to the American people will NOT bring Obama down?

The American electorate was smart enough to see through the media effort to prop up Gore and Kerry. The even more blatant positions of Obama will likewise cost him the election.

Harlan Huckleby
07-19-2008, 12:31 AM
There have been a lot of news reports lately about Bush and Malaki agreeing to some sort of conditions-based timeline for withdrawal of U.S. troops. Here is a comment from Nancy Pelosi:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Bush wasn't going far enough. "After rejecting 18 months of attempts by the Democratic majority in Congress to adopt redeployment timetables, the president now proposes a vague general time horizon that falls far short of a commitment to ending our involvement in Iraq," she said.

Is this woman insane? With so much at stake, can she really think we are going to totally "end our involvement in Iraq" any decade soon?

The untenable positions that the Democrats are taking on Iraq make me very sad. Obama talks about the need to leave Iraq so we can be successful in Afghanistan. What about being successful in Iraq!? I understand completely how a year or two ago it seemed like we had to just give up and cut our losses. But now we are on the cusp of accomplishing a great deal of good.

I appreciate the revulsion at the events in IRaq in 2003-2006. And it's no bed or roses now. But that is no excuse to just abandon all reason.

texaspackerbacker
07-19-2008, 11:05 AM
Well said, Harlan.

There should be a DA--Democrats Anonymous for recovering Dems such as yourself who might a walking down the street and sniff a domestic issue or whatever, and be tempted to go on a liberal binge.

Pelosi and the others have a bad habit of believing their own propaganda--like that the Republicans want to stay there forever. Obviously, we know the difference between cutting and running and recognizing progress to a viable degree of stability. She, like Obama, would screw up everything.

The only question is: do they take that position out of pure ineptitude? Or are they really opposed to the best interests of America?

Freak Out
07-19-2008, 11:14 AM
Well, Obama ain't gonna be able to run and hide from these words.

He is completely on record now. He opposed the policy which has been and integral part of saving huge numbers of American lives from repeats of 9/11.


We talking about Iraq here or Afghanistan?

Harlan Huckleby
07-19-2008, 11:25 AM
If you listen to the recent comments from Bush, he says the proposed timeline is for "combat troop" withdrawal. The U.S. is going to continue to provide logistical support, training, and special forces to help Iraq deal with terrorism.

To be fair, Obama also is carefully nuanced when he talks about withdrawing "combat forces." I *think* Obama recognizes that we have to keep shepherding Iraq along. He has even identified a need for a "residual force". Well hell, that alone really means tens of thousands of COMBAT troops.

This is all so phony. What does "logistical support" mean - it means we are going to keep helicopters there to help transport Iraqi troops around, and provide medical evacuation when fighting occurs, help resupply Iraqi troops in the field. It means we equip and train Iraqis to use the equipment. This means we keep significant combat troops there just to protect our own personell and assets. That translates to 50K to 70K troops there for about 10 years.

So why are Democrats even talking about "ending our involvement." I just know don't what the hell they are talking about, it's so pandering and dishonest, and I worry that some might actually mean it.

digitaldean
07-19-2008, 12:30 PM
Man it is refreshing seeing how the "change" candidate is "changing" his position.

First, he criticized the surge. Then after it is proven by most that it is working, he deftly pulls all criticism of it from his website. Never mind stating that he was wrong about that, just criticizing the war in general is the current tact.

The Iraqi Prime Minister al-Mailki has stated he is in favor of the 16 month withdrawal Obama proposed.

Harlan Huckleby
07-19-2008, 12:56 PM
The Iraqi Prime Minister al-Mailki has stated he is in favor of the 16 month withdrawal Obama proposed.

I'll be damned, that just happened a couple hours ago.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,566841,00.html

I would like Maliki to say EXACTLY what this means.

Right now, he is having it both ways. He gets to tell the Arab world, "U.S. Occupiers out of our country!" and they cheer him for standing up. But then in the details of what he actually agrees to, the U.S. continues to heavily support him.

I want some honesty from Maliki and OBama. They are pandering. And the U.S. is taking it up the hind quarters.

texaspackerbacker
07-19-2008, 02:26 PM
Well, Obama ain't gonna be able to run and hide from these words.

He is completely on record now. He opposed the policy which has been and integral part of saving huge numbers of American lives from repeats of 9/11.


We talking about Iraq here or Afghanistan?

Both--with regard to the policies, although more so with Iraq, since al Qaeda made its commitment there rather than trying harder to hit us at home.

As for Obama, he may have a claim to being half-heartedly on board about Afghanistan, but he has been against American interests all the way concerning Iraq.

Regarding Maliki, isn't having it both ways what being a politician is all about? I don't mind if he says what plays well to the Arabs. He knows which side his bread is buttered on, and he's our boy, bought and paid for. The goal has ALWAYS been to have a stable non-anti-American Iraq that can stand on its own feet. Well, we're almost there.

sheepshead
07-20-2008, 10:11 AM
Man it is refreshing seeing how the "change" candidate is "changing" his position.

First, he criticized the surge. Then after it is proven by most that it is working, he deftly pulls all criticism of it from his website. Never mind stating that he was wrong about that, just criticizing the war in general is the current tact.

The Iraqi Prime Minister al-Mailki has stated he is in favor of the 16 month withdrawal Obama proposed.

This guy is making John Kerry look like Winston Churchill.

bobblehead
07-20-2008, 11:15 AM
The Iraqi Prime Minister al-Mailki has stated he is in favor of the 16 month withdrawal Obama proposed.

I'll be damned, that just happened a couple hours ago.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,566841,00.html

I would like Maliki to say EXACTLY what this means.

Right now, he is having it both ways. He gets to tell the Arab world, "U.S. Occupiers out of our country!" and they cheer him for standing up. But then in the details of what he actually agrees to, the U.S. continues to heavily support him.

I want some honesty from Maliki and OBama. They are pandering. And the U.S. is taking it up the hind quarters.

I would call his bluff and use this opportunity to remove our troops instantly. Fucking ungrateful wretch. I never wanted to nation build anyway, I wanted to crush saddam, destroy his warmaking infrastructure and get out....oh yea, I wanted to destroy iran's warmaking infrastructure during the turmoil...then get out.

Harlan Huckleby
07-20-2008, 01:19 PM
I would call his bluff and use this opportunity to remove our troops instantly. Fucking ungrateful wretch.

I know what you mean, part of me wants to just get every American the fuck out of there. I think about the sacrifices those military families are making with those multiple tours.

Maliki personally wants American troops there - the more the merrier. To him, they are mostly a huge asset. He is responding to Iraqi public opinion, and maybe we need to celebrate the emergence of democracy that this indicates.

I would be satisfied with some hard questions of Obama. He says he wants to withdraw in 16 months. What this really means is reduce forces from about 120K to 60K. He says he wants to leave a "residual force" to fight Al-Qaida. You can't do that with a couple Swat teams. And "logistical support" amounts to about 60% of the job the current force is doing now.

It's very dramatic when Obama says he is going to "end the war", or Maliki says he going to "end the occupation." Make them tell the truth so that the United States is not falsely portrayed as the evil trouble maker for their political benefit.

bobblehead
07-20-2008, 01:57 PM
I would call his bluff and use this opportunity to remove our troops instantly. Fucking ungrateful wretch.

I know what you mean, part of me wants to just get every American the fuck out of there. I think about the sacrifices those military families are making with those multiple tours.

Maliki personally wants American troops there - the more the merrier. To him, they are mostly a huge asset. He is responding to Iraqi public opinion, and maybe we need to celebrate the emergence of democracy that this indicates.

I would be satisfied with some hard questions of Obama. He says he wants to withdraw in 16 months. What this really means is reduce forces from about 120K to 60K. He says he wants to leave a "residual force" to fight Al-Qaida. You can't do that with a couple Swat teams. And "logistical support" amounts to about 60% of the job the current force is doing now.

It's very dramatic when Obama says he is going to "end the war", or Maliki says he going to "end the occupation." Make them tell the truth so that the United States is not falsely portrayed as the evil trouble maker for their political benefit.

This was about nukes in the middle east in general. We fucked up because when iran was meddling and we had them red handed we should have taken that opportunity to drop several large explosives on every known nuclear facility they have. We could have hit some military while we were at it for show, but instead we passed on that opportunity. Didn't GW learn anything from his dad? Bomb facilities, get bullshit concessions, leave for 10 years, then go back later when they rebuild it. Its effective, cheap, and doesn't ostracize the world.