LOYALTY AND RESPECT

[gex]

Well now I guess we should dump Driver and anybody else who ever gave anything of themselves to this franchise and while we are at it tear down the statues of Vince and Curly in the front because loyality and respect for past acomplishments don't fucking mean shit to this new generation of little fuck-wads. :shock:
wHY EVEN BOTHER BUYING JERSEYS OR ANYTHING WITH A PLAYERS NAME ON IT ANYMORE THEY ARE NOTHING BUT INTERCHANGABLE PAWNS ON YOUR MADDEN FRANCHISE MODE RIGHT? I GUESS ITS JUST A FUKIN BUSINESS AND NOTHIN TO GET TO WORKED UP ABOUT. WHY IS IT THAT SINCE TT GOT HIRED PACKER NATION HAS BEEN SPLIT.

:cry: I'M REALLY BUMMED OUT. :cry:

[packrat]

Loyalty and respect? Favre is the one who retired. Until tonight he didn't have the guts to speak for himself, but let all sorts of whispers start cropping up in the papers and on TV. I am very disappointed in him. I guess once Sherman stopped letting him run the show, he became disillusioned--but he played better when MM held him accountable. He has been my favorite player, but he has become self-centered. The way he has been conducting himself is certainly not what is best for the team. He can knock McKensie or knock Javon, but when it comes his turn it is "me first." So sad. Good bye, Brett.

[RashanGary]

The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now. TT was a long time NFL player who still remembers vividly the day he got cut. YOu hear him tell the story and you'd think his heart was still torn out, lying on the Houston Oilers lockerroom floor being stepped on by the young draft pick who took his spot.

They all hate to do this. Even when Favre told the story about McCArthy telling him they moved forward, he made it sound like McCArthy sounded sick about it and he is mad at them. The Packers love Brett Favre and in their minds he will always be a Packer, but they made a very hard decision to move foward and that is where they are right now. It's not just loyalty, it's the whole tough buisness with very high team expectations both on the field and in the lockerroom.

[GrnBay007]

The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:

[RashanGary]

The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:


I think they said, we moved forward and gave the opportunity to a kid who is killing himself to be the best player he can be and he's a pretty damn good player. He was here, putting in the work and me moved forward with the guys that are here.

The rest I think they partly care for him but they partly want to do everything they can to prevent this really uncomfortable situation. Too late, huh?

[GrnBay007]

The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:


I think they said, we moved forward and gave the opportunity to a kid who is killing himself to be the best player he can be and he's a pretty damn good player. He was here, putting in the work and me moved forward with the guys that are here.

The rest I think they partly care for him but they partly want to do everything they can to prevent this really uncomfortable situation. Too late, huh?

You THINK that's what they said......or meant. What I posted was what they actually said.....right?

[RashanGary]

NO, that's the summarization that Greta gave it. IT was almost fit for an Oxygen or WE movie and really bad journalism like Patler said.

Brett said they said they moved forward and didn't know what else to do but don't want to see him in another jersey because they feel (and alwyas will) that he's a Packer.

I don't think they're doing anything out of spite. I think they know Favre is very indecisive and they hate to do this becuase while Rodgers worked tirelessly for his shot, they hate to see Brett struggle with the decision even though Brett made it to begin with.

[GrnBay007]

Brett said they said they moved forward and didn't know what else to do but don't want to see him in another jersey because they feel (and alwyas will) that he's a Packer.

.

LOL and anyone believes that? C'mon! They DO NOT want to take a chance on him signing with an NFC team........PERIOD. Plus, it's an effort to keep the Favre fans at bay.

[RashanGary]

I really don't think so, 007. I think they're first conversations with Brett were about him and the team. NOw that it's pushed this far, I think it turned to buisness but before all of this, I think they really did and do care about Brett and felt horrible that he watned to come back after he retired and they committed to moving forward.

TT said this is a very core, principal issue that they can't step around. He and McCarthy seem to feel very strongly about thier word and about what the work in the off season program means. They're committed to their principals and I really think they hate to see Brett struggling with the way it worked out. I think they sincerely liked being around him and want what is best for him. They're just hoping he really wanted to stay retired because that's the path of least resistance. It's a pretty natural hope I think and Brett did kind of want it anyway.

[GrnBay007]

I really don't think so, 007. I think they're first conversations with Brett were about him and the team. NOw that it's pushed this far, I think it turned to buisness but before all of this, I think they really did and do care about Brett and felt horrible that he watned to come back after he retired and they committed to moving forward.

TT said this is a very core, principal issue that they can't step around. He and McCarthy seem to feel very strongly about thier word and about what the work in the off season program means. They're committed to their principals and I really think they hate to see Brett struggling with the way it worked out. I think they sincerely liked being around him and want what is best for him. They're just hoping he really wanted to stay retired because that's the path of least resistance. It's a pretty natural hope I think and Brett did kind of want it anyway.

You are speculating A LOT on what management "feels".

So then they should release him.

Bottom line is it turned into a huge "pissing" match. Both sides are going to suffer....no way around it. It's just really sad.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:

This would of course be a ridiculous position for the PAckers to take. But you know perfectly well that this is not an accurate representation of the teams position.

Favre stated that Thompson asked him for a list of teams he would like to play for. Clearly Thompson is open to a trade. When Favre said that the team was forcing him to stay out of football, it was a cheap and deceptive play for sympathy.

[Lurker64]

It seems to me that Brett Favre is trying to hurt the Green Bay Packers organization, or at the very least his actions are indicative of someone who does. As such, I'm mad at him. Eventually I'll no longer be mad at him, but I am angry at Brett Favre.

Thankfully the only Packer jersey I own is a Rob Davis jersey, now that's a man who can retire with class.

[RashanGary]

You are speculating A LOT on what management "feels".

So then they should release him.

Bottom line is it turned into a huge "pissing" match. Both sides are going to suffer....no way around it. It's just really sad.

I'm not speculating on how they feel. They said the feel horrible and it would go right along with one of TT's most human traits "how he feels when he cuts someone". I've heard TT describe many times how it feels to be cut and how much he respects and honors past players even when he lets them go. He will NEVER disrespect a player on his way out the door and NEVER disrespect a player who is at the end of his career. I truely believe that. I don't think there is an ounce of spite in TT when it comes to players. I really do think he cares about that team more than almost anyone gives him credit.

Brett said the communications with McCarthy were good and told a story of how McCArthy gently told him they moved forward. Nothing about any of this sounds spitefull. It's just a really hard situation that I think they wish never had to happen to begin with. I honestly think 99% of Brett's pain is because for the last 18 years he's been at the very top and to be told someone is moving on probably tears him apart and makes him feel old, unwanted, guilty for things the could have done better and many other posisble things. I don't hink much of it was the fault of the Packers, just a really hard thing that happened partially because Favre left the door open for the next guy.

[woodbuck27]

I really don't think so, 007. I think they're first conversations with Brett were about him and the team. NOw that it's pushed this far, I think it turned to buisness but before all of this, I think they really did and do care about Brett and felt horrible that he watned to come back after he retired and they committed to moving forward.

TT said this is a very core, principal issue that they can't step around. He and McCarthy seem to feel very strongly about thier word and about what the work in the off season program means. They're committed to their principals and I really think they hate to see Brett struggling with the way it worked out. I think they sincerely liked being around him and want what is best for him. They're just hoping he really wanted to stay retired because that's the path of least resistance. It's a pretty natural hope I think and Brett did kind of want it anyway.

Yes your 27 years old. Nice to be so young JH, but don't try to paint over this shit mess. It's pretty clear that before Brett Favre announced his retirement he damn well knew or sincerely felt that team management wanted a change at QB. Now can you live with that?

Next we are learning that '' Well Brett you can come back or your welcome as a back-up to Aaron Rodgers ''. Did MM believe that Favre would jump all over that JH?

Yes that 's right JH. He would be devastated after the season he had personally and in leading us to a surprizing 13-3 record. MM is talking to one of the most competitive PRO athlete's ALL TIME. Brett Favre.

So let's add this little tid bit. ''Sorry Brett no trade or release. '' We want your LEGACY as 'a Green Bay Packer' preserved and 'in tact' ''.

Imagine JH for just a moment, your Brett Favre after that little MM visit .

Now do you understand the ''I believe I can still play well and the tears'' on his retirement announcement. Favre was devastated.

This is a rotten kick in the balls for Brett Favre and the Packer Organization has a bigger PR job to do starting tonight then it had at the beginning of Monday. It never had to get this bad JH.

PACKERS FOREVER.... not without a lot of damage control.

The mess just got a lot worse.

[RashanGary]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

[RashanGary]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. He probably senses that and that probably hurts really badly but that's part of life. It's hard, but it doensn't mean someone is to blame.

[woodbuck27]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

The Packer Management forced his hand. That's clear.

[Harlan Huckleby]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. He probably senses that and that probably hurts really badly but that's part of life. It's hard, but it doensn't mean someone is to blame.


Right on. And FAvre doesn't have a lot of experience with rejection.

I expect that Favre & MM & TT are going to simply patch things up, though.

I don't see any other option if an acceptable trade can;t be arranged. And I also think that they have always had good relations, and it will not be hard to get over this squabble.

[GrnBay007]

You are speculating A LOT on what management "feels".

So then they should release him.

Bottom line is it turned into a huge "pissing" match. Both sides are going to suffer....no way around it. It's just really sad.

I'm not speculating on how they feel. They said the feel horrible and it would go right along with one of TT's most human traits "how he feels when he cuts someone"

And are you really that naive to believe MOST management really gives a shit when they have their own agenda?

They may "feel bad" (i.e. 10%). There is a lot of ego involved now and like I said, a giant "pissing match".

[RashanGary]

I do think they give a shit and I don't think they want to hurt Brett Favre at all.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

The Packer Management forced his hand. That's clear.

Thats why when Favre wanted to play in late March Thompson and McCarthy lined up a private jet to meet with him in Mississippi to outline his return to the team. Get your facts straight. This isn't a management issue, this is Favre wanting to play football issue.

[GrnBay007]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. Funny this is posted in the "Loyalty and Respect" thread.

[RashanGary]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. Funny this is posted in the "Loyalty and Respect" thread.

Needing someboyd and respecting somebody are two different things and teh Packers and Favre aren't married till death do them part. They have a working relationship where one can leave whenever one choses. It hurts, but it's not a matter of loyalty or respect. Favre would have no moral right to retire if making a decision to move forward was a breach of the loyalty and respect clause.

[GrnBay007]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. Funny this is posted in the "Loyalty and Respect" thread.

Needing someboyd and respecting somebody are two different things and teh Packers and Favre aren't married till death do them part. They have a working relationship where one can leave whenever one choses. It hurts, but it's not a matter of loyalty or respect. Favre would have no moral right to retire if making a decision to move forward was a breach of the loyalty and respect clause.

JH, aside from everything Favre have given to GB, do you believe Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win?

[RashanGary]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. Funny this is posted in the "Loyalty and Respect" thread.

Needing someboyd and respecting somebody are two different things and teh Packers and Favre aren't married till death do them part. They have a working relationship where one can leave whenever one choses. It hurts, but it's not a matter of loyalty or respect. Favre would have no moral right to retire if making a decision to move forward was a breach of the loyalty and respect clause.

JH, aside from everything Favre have given to GB, do you believe Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win?

I don't know, but I trust the Packers to make that decision and that is what I think is happening here. I don't think they dislike Brett at all. I acctually think they understand his pain more than Favre even knows. Favre is just coming to grips with the first time anyone ever didn't want him for anything. It probably hurts a lot but sometimes hurt is just a part of life and not just the nasty, canniving side. I really don't see the Packers being that way. I just think they made a very tough call to go with a guy who was there putting in the work and I think they also happen to think he's up for the job.

If I had to guess right now using just my opinion I'd say Favre gives the best chance. If I had to read the Packers actions I'd say they think it's close and decided to move forward because Rodgers had the edge in work ethic and dedication.

[HarveyWallbangers]

JH, aside from everything Favre have given to GB, do you believe Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win?

It really isn't that simple. Rodgers has a ton of talent. He's sat on the bench for 3 years. He's a FA after next year. The Packers have to find out what they have with him. So, if it's close this year, you go with Rodgers. Would Brett be as good this year as last year? Good chance he wouldn't. It was one of his top 5 years of his career. He did at 38 years old. Guys fall off dramatically at the end of their careers, and he's been in Mississippi all offseason. Not to mention his own doubts about whether he can handle the job mentally. He was burnt out last year.

There's also the dynamics of the locker room to deal with. I get the feeling that if you took a locker room poll right now, Favre wouldn't get nearly as many votes as some think. He might not get a majority of votes.

I wanted Favre back. I wished he wouldn't have retired, but I understood him retiring almost on top. Magical year last year. I doubt this year would have gone as well--even if Brett had committed to returning right after the season.

[Pacopete4]

Harv... Al Harris sure doesnt think there would be anything wrong with the locker room and he wants Brett to come back... u know why, cuz he is the better QB... simple

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5

[Deputy Nutz]

AS far as Favre goes, yeah, they probably don't feel like they need him as badly. Funny this is posted in the "Loyalty and Respect" thread.

Needing someboyd and respecting somebody are two different things and teh Packers and Favre aren't married till death do them part. They have a working relationship where one can leave whenever one choses. It hurts, but it's not a matter of loyalty or respect. Favre would have no moral right to retire if making a decision to move forward was a breach of the loyalty and respect clause.

JH, aside from everything Favre have given to GB, do you believe Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win?

I don't know, but I trust the Packers to make that decision and that is what I think is happening here. I don't think they dislike Brett at all. I acctually think they understand his pain more than Favre even knows. Favre is just coming to grips with the first time anyone ever didn't want him for anything. It probably hurts a lot but sometimes hurt is just a part of life and not just the nasty, canniving side. I really don't see the Packers being that way. I just think they made a very tough call to go with a guy who was there putting in the work and I think they also happen to think he's up for the job.

If I had to guess right now using just my opinion I'd say Favre gives the best chance. If I had to read the Packers actions I'd say they think it's close and decided to move forward because Rodgers had the edge in work ethic and dedication.

This really isn't full of your typical bullshit. It is pretty much right on the money. This is more of an issue of emotion then of actual football. Sure Rodgers is unproven, but that doesn't mean he can't play, and it doesn't mean he won't stay healthy. I like where Aaron Rodgers is at, but again best chance in 2008 is most likely with Favre.

I said several, several posts ago that Favre is hurt, he has had the door shut on him and it is painful, especially since he can still play the game at an all pro level.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I should also add that if the offseason hadn't gone like it has (e.g. Brett missing the offseason, Brett talking about how the pressure got to him, Brett seeming burnt out), there's no question that I would have given Brett the nod as the starter going into this season. At this point, I think it's fair to let them fight it out.

I think he'll be traded though. There will definitely be interest around the NFL. If guys like Pacman Jones and Terrell Owens can get traded, there are teams out there that would take Brett--even at 39 years old. I still think that's what will end up happening.

[RashanGary]

If I really had to speculate how the ulitmate commitment to Rodger happened I'd say this:

THIS IS TOTAL SPECULATION based on a few comments here and there and just knowing McCarthys personality a little.


They were going through their last week of OTA's/Minicamps and McCarthy was really proud of his guys for giving everything they had this off season and taking obvious big steps from even last year at this time. He has a really close working relationship iwth Rodgers and he could see how much he deserves the chance and is good enough to warrant it. He's fresh off offering Brett the job a second time only to get called back and told he's sure he wants to retire so he went ahead and completely offered the job to Rodgers. I picture a very exciting moment where McCarthy hands it over and Rodgers humbling and greatfully accepts. Maybe it's symbolic in front of the team. Maybe it's alone. Whenever that moment was and however it went down, I do think McCarthy passed it over at some point and I do think Rodgers earned it. I think they are very excited for Rodgers and just torn inside that Brett decided to come back. They held out, but eventually they moved on and now they can't go back because Rodgers earned this shot to fail before it gets taken from him. IF they passed the torch in front of the team, they would really not be able to turn back because that would be a cowardous thing to do and respect would be lost everywhere.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I picture a very exciting moment where McCarthy hands it over and Rodgers humbling and greatfully accepts. Maybe it's symbolic in front of the team. Maybe it's alone.

This is quite gay. I doubt McCarthy formally handed over the keys to Rodgers. I think it was probably implied... maybe McCarthy making a comment to Aaron about how he was going to make or break his career, so don't screw it up. Maybe something similar to what the Walrus told a young Brett.

[RashanGary]

I don't know, I think there is more than an implied commitment. Thompson calls it a core value that cannot be broken. Whatever it is, it means a lot to the Packers. IT means enough to go through all of this just to tell a great QB no in front of a fan base that isn't ready to hear it.

[woodbuck27]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

The Packer Management forced his hand. That's clear.

Thats why when Favre wanted to play in late March Thompson and McCarthy lined up a private jet to meet with him in Mississippi to outline his return to the team. Get your facts straight. This isn't a management issue, this is Favre wanting to play football issue.

Believe this Nutz I'm trying to get 'THE FACTS' straight and at this point who really knows the TRUTH but 'the major players'?

March 6 - Favre conducts retirement press conference.

* Week of March 24 - Offensive line coach James Campen, who is visiting Louisiana, stops in to see Favre at his Mississippi home and is asked by Favre whether he thinks the Packers would take him back. Campen reports the conversation to McCarthy and Thompson. McCarthy calls Favre and hears the same things Campen did.

* March 27 - Thompson and McCarthy decide they would be fine with Favre returning even though Aaron Rodgers is set to begin off-season workouts as the starter, and they inform Favre. "Mike said, ‘Ted and I talked and we said, fine.' But we'd like to come see you, and Brett was kind of excited that we were coming to see him." In preparation to leave for the owners meetings in West Palm Beach, March 30-April 3, they arrange to meet with Favre and wife, Deanna.

* March 29 - McCarthy makes plans to fly to Hattiesburg on April 1 to make plans for Favre's return. McCarthy is leaving for evening Mass when Favre calls to inform him he has changed his mind. "We were all set for them, but Brett called back and that he and Deanna had a long talk about it and they were going to stick with their original decision."

* May 6 - Thompson is down South and decides to pay a visit to Favre at his home. "I called him and said I am thinking about seeing you, I don't have any agenda or anything. So I did, I went and visited. Had lunch sat out on the veranda. We had a long talk and good talk. Nothing really came up other than like with any retired player, you could tell there were a few things that he would throw in there; 'there might be some doubts, I may change my mind,' or something like that. And that was that."

* June 8 - Campen goes to Favre's home and has a long talk with Favre and leaves feeling Favre wants to return.

* June 20 -- Favre calls McCarthy and the two have a 45-minute conversation in which Favre tells him he might want to play again. "There was more wondering, you know, what ifs." McCarthy and Thompson go on vacation for the July 4th weekend.

* July 4 - Thompson receives a text message from Favre and sends a message back at about 8 p.m. back telling him he's traveling and can they talk on Monday? "By Monday I hadn't heard back from him. I sent him back a text saying, ‘Haven't heard from ya, hope you're getting these messages, can we talk Tuesday at noon?' He got back to me and said 'OK,' that it would be better sooner, but I was kind of doing some other things so we set up a conference call."

* July 8 - Favre and his agent, James (Bus) Cook ask Thompson for Favre's release during the conference call. It's understood Favre won't be the starter in Green Bay. "There were, I think, conversations with Mike where both parties acknowledged that time had gone by and the Packers had been asked to move on, or move forward, or whatever. That's what they were thinking there (about asking for his release)."

* July 11 - Thompson receives a letter from Favre and Cook formally asking for Favre to be released.

You refer to this Nutz:

* March 29 - McCarthy makes plans to fly to Hattiesburg on April 1 to make plans for Favre's return. McCarthy is leaving for evening Mass when Favre calls to inform him he has changed his mind. "We were all set for them, but Brett called back and that he and Deanna had a long talk about it and they were going to stick with their original decision."


Booking a jet to fly to Hattisburg means? And return means...as in return to what Nutz? In fairness to all the major players in this mess that needs to get cleaned up fast 'by the way'. Do we really yet have all 'the facts' we need to firmly understand all 'the play' here? I say NO.

The interview today hopefuly gets to this question on the TT timeline Nutz.

[woodbuck27]

If I really had to speculate how the ulitmate commitment to Rodger happened I'd say this:

THIS IS TOTAL SPECULATION based on a few comments here and there and just knowing McCarthys personality a little.


They were going through their last week of OTA's/Minicamps and McCarthy was really proud of his guys for giving everything they had this off season and taking obvious big steps from even last year at this time. He has a really close working relationship iwth Rodgers and he could see how much he deserves the chance and is good enough to warrant it. He's fresh off offering Brett the job a second time only to get called back and told he's sure he wants to retire so he went ahead and completely offered the job to Rodgers. I picture a very exciting moment where McCarthy hands it over and Rodgers humbling and greatfully accepts. Maybe it's symbolic in front of the team. Maybe it's alone. Whenever that moment was and however it went down, I do think McCarthy passed it over at some point and I do think Rodgers earned it. I think they are very excited for Rodgers and just torn inside that Brett decided to come back. They held out, but eventually they moved on and now they can't go back because Rodgers earned this shot to fail before it gets taken from him. IF they passed the torch in front of the team, they would really not be able to turn back because that would be a cowardous thing to do and respect would be lost everywhere.

Good GOD!!

What are you Jacked up on JH? Must be good stuff! Is there a new cool aid out? :D

[cpk1994]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

The Packer Management forced his hand. That's clear.

Thats why when Favre wanted to play in late March Thompson and McCarthy lined up a private jet to meet with him in Mississippi to outline his return to the team. Get your facts straight. This isn't a management issue, this is Favre wanting to play football issue.Kind of funny that Woody conviently leaves that part out to make his argument. Besides, if Brett didn't give an answer when TT wanted it, what was TT gonna do about it? Nothing becuase anything would make himself look just as bad as he does now. TT din't put a gun to Brett's head looking for an answer.

[woodbuck27]

I don't think so, Woody. I think they were more ready this year and gave Favre less leeway, but I think Favre had way too much to begin with so it was nothing that should have been insulting unless you expect preferential treatment.

I don't think the Packers are devistated speaking just football. I think they believe in Rodgers more than we think. If they were affraid they would fail they'd take him back. Emotionally, I think they feel for him and hate to see someone go through something like this.

The Packer Management forced his hand. That's clear.

Thats why when Favre wanted to play in late March Thompson and McCarthy lined up a private jet to meet with him in Mississippi to outline his return to the team. Get your facts straight. This isn't a management issue, this is Favre wanting to play football issue.Kind of funny that Woody conviently leaves that part out to make his argument. Besides, if Brett didn't give an answer when TT wanted it, what was TT gonna do about it? Nothing becuase anything would make himself look just as bad as he does now. TT din't put a gun to Brett's head looking for an answer.

Hey Top Gun. Can't you read?

READ this cpk1994. I'm fucking well sick of your BS cpk1994 Now take a giant leap and try to have an open mind and read this . This story is still evolving bright boy:

Believe this Nutz I'm trying to get 'THE FACTS' straight and at this point who really knows the TRUTH but 'the major players'?

March 6 - Favre conducts retirement press conference.

* Week of March 24 - Offensive line coach James Campen, who is visiting Louisiana, stops in to see Favre at his Mississippi home and is asked by Favre whether he thinks the Packers would take him back. Campen reports the conversation to McCarthy and Thompson. McCarthy calls Favre and hears the same things Campen did.

* March 27 - Thompson and McCarthy decide they would be fine with Favre returning even though Aaron Rodgers is set to begin off-season workouts as the starter, and they inform Favre. "Mike said, ‘Ted and I talked and we said, fine.' But we'd like to come see you, and Brett was kind of excited that we were coming to see him." In preparation to leave for the owners meetings in West Palm Beach, March 30-April 3, they arrange to meet with Favre and wife, Deanna.

* March 29 - McCarthy makes plans to fly to Hattiesburg on April 1 to make plans for Favre's return. McCarthy is leaving for evening Mass when Favre calls to inform him he has changed his mind. "We were all set for them, but Brett called back and that he and Deanna had a long talk about it and they were going to stick with their original decision."

* May 6 - Thompson is down South and decides to pay a visit to Favre at his home. "I called him and said I am thinking about seeing you, I don't have any agenda or anything. So I did, I went and visited. Had lunch sat out on the veranda. We had a long talk and good talk. Nothing really came up other than like with any retired player, you could tell there were a few things that he would throw in there; 'there might be some doubts, I may change my mind,' or something like that. And that was that."

* June 8 - Campen goes to Favre's home and has a long talk with Favre and leaves feeling Favre wants to return.

* June 20 -- Favre calls McCarthy and the two have a 45-minute conversation in which Favre tells him he might want to play again. "There was more wondering, you know, what ifs." McCarthy and Thompson go on vacation for the July 4th weekend.

* July 4 - Thompson receives a text message from Favre and sends a message back at about 8 p.m. back telling him he's traveling and can they talk on Monday? "By Monday I hadn't heard back from him. I sent him back a text saying, ‘Haven't heard from ya, hope you're getting these messages, can we talk Tuesday at noon?' He got back to me and said 'OK,' that it would be better sooner, but I was kind of doing some other things so we set up a conference call."

* July 8 - Favre and his agent, James (Bus) Cook ask Thompson for Favre's release during the conference call. It's understood Favre won't be the starter in Green Bay. "There were, I think, conversations with Mike where both parties acknowledged that time had gone by and the Packers had been asked to move on, or move forward, or whatever. That's what they were thinking there (about asking for his release)."

* July 11 - Thompson receives a letter from Favre and Cook formally asking for Favre to be released.

You refer to this Nutz:

* March 29 - McCarthy makes plans to fly to Hattiesburg on April 1 to make plans for Favre's return. McCarthy is leaving for evening Mass when Favre calls to inform him he has changed his mind. "We were all set for them, but Brett called back and that he and Deanna had a long talk about it and they were going to stick with their original decision."


Booking a jet to fly to Hattisburg means? And return means...as in return to what Nutz? In fairness to all the major players in this mess that needs to get cleaned up fast 'by the way'. Do we really yet have all 'the facts' we need to firmly understand all 'the play' here? I say NO.

The interview today hopefuly gets to this question on the TT timeline Nutz.

[Sparkey]

So Woodbuck,

So at what point do you decide to move forward ?

Favre retired
Favre maybe doesn't want to stay retired
Favre decides to stay retired
Favre decides he might want to play
Favre decides he is pretty sure he wants to play

?????????

I have not seen/heard of him filing reinstatement papers, which is a prerequisite to playing in 2008. So, I guess "Shit or get off the pot" is the current situation he is in. If he is so committed to playing this year, why is he not taking the required steps to make this commitment a reality ? Unless, maybe, he is not 100% sure that is what he wants ? ? ?

[woodbuck27]

So Woodbuck,

So at what point do you decide to move forward ?

Favre retired
Favre maybe doesn't want to stay retired
Favre decides to stay retired
Favre decides he might want to play
Favre decides he is pretty sure he wants to play

?????????

I have not seen/heard of him filing reinstatement papers, which is a prerequisite to playing in 2008. So, I guess "Shit or get off the pot" is the current situation he is in. If he is so committed to playing this year, why is he not taking the required steps to make this commitment a reality ? Unless, maybe, he is not 100% sure that is what he wants ? ? ?

Isn't it clear he doesn't like the game that's going down, been going down in Green Bay since TT arrived? Try to place yourself in his shoes. It works to help understand FAVRE.

[The Leaper]

Favre stated that Thompson asked him for a list of teams he would like to play for. Clearly Thompson is open to a trade.

Just because you ask for a list does not mean that you are open to a trade. Asking for a list is a great way to make it look like you are the good guy in the media, when in reality you have no desire whatsoever to consider a trade.

[Sparkey]

So Woodbuck,

So at what point do you decide to move forward ?

Favre retired
Favre maybe doesn't want to stay retired
Favre decides to stay retired
Favre decides he might want to play
Favre decides he is pretty sure he wants to play

?????????

I have not seen/heard of him filing reinstatement papers, which is a prerequisite to playing in 2008. So, I guess "Shit or get off the pot" is the current situation he is in. If he is so committed to playing this year, why is he not taking the required steps to make this commitment a reality ? Unless, maybe, he is not 100% sure that is what he wants ? ? ?

Isn't it clear he doesn't like the game that's going down, been going down in Green Bay since TT arrived? Try to place yourself in his shoes. It works to help understand FAVRE.

You mean the team wanting him to decide what the heck he is going to do so they can plan accordingly ? Remember, it was Favre who initially created and re-lived the will he / wont he retirement drama over and over ...

[woodbuck27]

So Woodbuck,

So at what point do you decide to move forward ?

Favre retired
Favre maybe doesn't want to stay retired
Favre decides to stay retired
Favre decides he might want to play
Favre decides he is pretty sure he wants to play

?????????

I have not seen/heard of him filing reinstatement papers, which is a prerequisite to playing in 2008. So, I guess "Shit or get off the pot" is the current situation he is in. If he is so committed to playing this year, why is he not taking the required steps to make this commitment a reality ? Unless, maybe, he is not 100% sure that is what he wants ? ? ?

Isn't it clear he doesn't like the game that's going down, been going down in Green Bay since TT arrived? Try to place yourself in his shoes. It works to help understand FAVRE.

You mean the team wanting him to decide what the heck he is going to do so they can plan accordingly ? Remember, it was Favre who initially created and re-lived the will he / wont he retirement drama over and over ...

Be fair to YOU. Read and listen very carefully what Favre said last night and will say today. You'll get it.

[sharpe1027]

Favre stated that Thompson asked him for a list of teams he would like to play for. Clearly Thompson is open to a trade.

Just because you ask for a list does not mean that you are open to a trade. Asking for a list is a great way to make it look like you are the good guy in the media, when in reality you have no desire whatsoever to consider a trade.

True, there is no guarantee of the sincerity of the offer.

What does refusing to provide this list say about Favre and Cook, when they instead, publically, ask for an outright release?

The whole he-said she-said thing is tired. It was clear from the start that Favre's camp (whether sanctioned by Favre or not) was looking for a fight by taking pot shots that the Packer's organization. I've seen very, very little effort from Favre's side to try and make this work. The second he got a little negative feedback: "release me because I earned it". That says more than anything to me.

[woodbuck27]

Favre stated that Thompson asked him for a list of teams he would like to play for. Clearly Thompson is open to a trade.

Just because you ask for a list does not mean that you are open to a trade. Asking for a list is a great way to make it look like you are the good guy in the media, when in reality you have no desire whatsoever to consider a trade.

True, there is no guarantee of the sincerity of the offer.

What does refusing to provide this list say about Favre and Cook, when they instead, publically, ask for an outright release?

The whole he-said she-said thing is tired. It was clear from the start that Favre's camp (whether sanctioned by Favre or not) was looking for a fight by taking pot shots that the Packer's organization. I've seen very, very little effort from Favre's side to try and make this work. The second he got a little negative feedback: "release me because I earned it". That says more than anything to me.

Step back and take last season into perspective. Think in terms ofFavre's efforts and overall contribution to get us to 'the Giants' game.

All of a sudden the brass puts 'the heat on'. WHY??

For what possible reason would Favre be pushed to demonstrate to TT or MM or anyone that he was 100% committed, after what he demonstrated in 2007? Getting it yet?

See you have to arrive there 'in YOU'. :D

[sharpe1027]

Step back and take last season into perspective. Think in terms ofFavre's efforts and overall contribution to get us to 'the Giants' game.

All of a sudden the brass puts 'the heat on'. WHY??

For what possible reason would Favre be pushed to demonstrate to TT or MM or anyone that he was 100% committed, after what he demonstrated in 2007? Getting it yet?

See you have to arrive there 'in YOU'. :D

Explain what you mean by "push". You're using that term, but they've asked him every year if he could provide and answer before, Free Agency the Draft, ect... He was never forced to meet a deadline before and he knows that. Yet, this year was different?

*edit*

Ah hell, I'm reading too fast or something. Replace push with "puts heat on". Sorry for the misquote Woodbuck.

[pbmax]

That's a stretch. Even Favre has said they are considering trading him.



The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Favre stated that Thompson asked him for a list of teams he would like to play for. Clearly Thompson is open to a trade.

Just because you ask for a list does not mean that you are open to a trade. Asking for a list is a great way to make it look like you are the good guy in the media, when in reality you have no desire whatsoever to consider a trade.

Why in God's name would TT not be willing to trade Favre to the AFC?

This theory makes no sense.

[The Leaper]

Why in God's name would TT not be willing to trade Favre to the AFC?

This theory makes no sense.

I'm saying Thompson has no real desire to trade Favre. Saying "provide me a list" is a PR way to be the good guy. It doesn't mean Thompson is actually doing anything concrete to move Favre at present.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ok, I agree.

There has to be a reason why the NFL appears to have so little interest in picking-up Favre.

edit: whups, you apparently edited your post. I don't agree, you're back to saying TT has some aversion to trading Favre. Well, I see no logic there.

[Partial]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/PKR07/807150546/1058/PKR01

Mike V hit the nail on the head. Complete lack of respect for somebody like Favre and for all he has done. He has earned the right to take his time.

[Chevelle2]

If you guys wanna go suck Favre nuts go to the officialfavreforum. they are freaking out over there. Its hilarious to toy with them

[GBRulz]

That's a stretch. Even Favre has said they are considering trading him.



The Packers seem to be sincerely empathetic for what is happening with Brett right now.

OH, you mean when they said, we don't want you, but nobody else can have you either? :roll:

Actually, he said it's a "way out there possibility". At least in his interview last night.

I just want this to end. tell him to file his damn papers and come back to compete in TC. I think that is the fairest way to go about it. On the other hand, you have to worry about alienating in the locker room if you do that. On that note, trading him would be the best option and they should get that done as early as possible.

There just isn't a happy ending, any way you look at it.

[The Leaper]

edit: whups, you apparently edited your post. I don't agree, you're back to saying TT has some aversion to trading Favre. Well, I see no logic there.

He has an aversion to trading Favre for nothing.

The AFC generally has no interest for Favre. You'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick out of someone. Why trade Favre for a 6th round pick? Thompson would look like a fool.

Thompson also has an aversion to trading Favre within the NFC, because Favre could hurt the Packers (and Thompson) far more in conference.

If it comes down to it, I'm sure Thompson would trade Favre if he had to. I'm guessing it would be a last resort. He's hoping Favre stays at home, doesn't apply for reinstatement and remains retired.

That is why the "give me a list" deal is completely hollow to me. Thompson KNOWS where he will and won't trade Favre, so why not give Favre a list of places Thompson would be willing to send him...rather than have Favre make up a list and say "No, no, no, no, no, no".

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080715/PKR07/807150546/1058/PKR01

Mike V hit the nail on the head. Complete lack of respect for somebody like Favre and for all he has done. He has earned the right to take his time.


Vandermause suggested nothing of the sort, you pulled this out of your butt.

He expressed empathy for Favre, who was understandably hurt when the team said they'd moved-on in July. But Vandermause didn't suggest the Packers did anything wrong, or disrespected Favre.

[GBRulz]

If you guys wanna go suck Favre nuts go to the officialfavreforum. they are freaking out over there. Its hilarious to toy with them

Are you referring to officialbrettfavre.com/forum?? Yeah, I can only imagine what it going on over there. However, I noticed this a couple of weeks ago..... We are not accepting any new members at this time.

and since I was banned over there for calling the pilot arrogant, I haven't read for a while now.

[The Leaper]

Mike V hit the nail on the head. Complete lack of respect for somebody like Favre and for all he has done. He has earned the right to take his time.

I agree. The Packers (including Thompson and McCarthy) have some culpability in this. There is plenty of blame to go around...and I don't think anyone can wash their hands of this and claim they've done everything they can to make it work.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That is why the "give me a list" deal is completely hollow to me. Thompson KNOWS where he will and won't trade Favre, so why not give Favre a list of places Thompson would be willing to send him...rather than have Favre make up a list and say "No, no, no, no, no, no".


OK, maybe you have a point there. But I have a hunch FAvre & Thompson are not on exactly chatty terms. TT was just trying to get the info with as little friction as possible. If he give BF a list, maybe BF throws a tantrum.

[sharpe1027]

Thompson KNOWS where he will and won't trade Favre, so why not give Favre a list of places Thompson would be willing to send him...rather than have Favre make up a list and say "No, no, no, no, no, no".

Standard negotiation procedure, make the other guy go first. Someone has to go first.

[Pacopete4]

Thompson KNOWS where he will and won't trade Favre, so why not give Favre a list of places Thompson would be willing to send him...rather than have Favre make up a list and say "No, no, no, no, no, no".

Standard negotiation procedure, make the other guy go first. Someone has to go first.


This is part of the problem... fing sit down, BOTH OF THEM, and work this out... dont wait for the other ones move, thats how this mess started in the first place

[Bretsky]

edit: whups, you apparently edited your post. I don't agree, you're back to saying TT has some aversion to trading Favre. Well, I see no logic there.

He has an aversion to trading Favre for nothing.

The AFC generally has no interest for Favre. You'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick out of someone. Why trade Favre for a 6th round pick? Thompson would look like a fool.

Thompson also has an aversion to trading Favre within the NFC, because Favre could hurt the Packers (and Thompson) far more in conference.

If it comes down to it, I'm sure Thompson would trade Favre if he had to. I'm guessing it would be a last resort. He's hoping Favre stays at home, doesn't apply for reinstatement and remains retired.

That is why the "give me a list" deal is completely hollow to me. Thompson KNOWS where he will and won't trade Favre, so why not give Favre a list of places Thompson would be willing to send him...rather than have Favre make up a list and say "No, no, no, no, no, no".


:bclap:

[Bretsky]

But when you see the sincerity in his eyes and hear it again in his voice, it's hard to get angry for the offseason of indecision he has created. Instead, you feel sorry for Favre, who loves to play football but feels like a man without a team

[the_idle_threat]

But when you see the sincerity in his eyes and hear it again in his voice, it's hard to get angry for the offseason of indecision he has created. Instead, you feel sorry for Favre, who loves to play football but feels like a man without a team
I have to admit---and I'm saying this honestly, not to stir shit or something---Favre didn't seem very sincere to me in that interview. Just a feeling I got while watching his facial expressions and the like. I don't think he had anything to lie about, but I certainly wouldn't laud him for how sincere he supposedly looked in that interview.