Has your opinion of Favre changed?

[Patler]

Let's not argue in this thread who is right, who is wrong, what should or shouldn't be done. Let's not argue if he can or can not perform at a high level on the field. Let's limit it to a discussion of Favre the person. I'll pose this question:

Based on what has occurred since the end of the 2007 season and Favre's own statements and actions, has your opinion changed about Brett Favre as a person/team mate, and if so, how?

Consider the following:

All that has occurred since his retirement press conference.
His comments over his career regarding team, players commitment to the team, players' holdouts (Sharpe, MacKenzie, Walker, etc.) and how the team should respond to their holdout threats, etc.

As further discussion, how significant were his ramblings in the VanSustern "interview" in you changing or not changing your opinion of him?

[RashanGary]

I've felt this way about him since the 2005 season. I think he showed his true colors that year.

[Patler]

I've felt this way about him since the 2005 season. I think he showed his true colors that year.

What did he do then that affected your opinion, and how would you describe your opinion of him?

[woodbuck27]

Other than the fact he caused a mess for himself by announcing his retirement when he needed more time to decide on that 'in reality'.

NO!

[Tarlam!]

No, not really. Doesn't mean I'm not disappointed by what he has created with his actions or those of his camp. But heck, he disappointed me when he retired in the first place.

I admit to be angry. But I get pissed at things my kids do or colleagues or whatever and i get over it.

I think he will one day look back and have regrets at what he has done and how he did them in the last 4 months.

He is still my favourtite, though.

[Patler]

Woody & Tarlam:

Are you able to justify in your own mind his current stance and statements regarding the organization and what they should do for him with his comments in previous years about the situations I mentioned involving his disgruntled teammates? Is he being at all two-faced? If not, why not?

[mraynrand]

A little. I didn't think he was the type to triangulate. He doesn't seem to have done a lot of it, but I expected him to be more of a direct guy. Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy are giving you mixed signals and/or the wrong signals? You fly up to Green Bay and tell them in person where you're coming from rather than talking to Al Jones or Greta, etc.

[Tarlam!]

I have observed quite often that the individual, BF, is an emotional and highly strung guy. I would also assume he is being brainwashed to some degree by those around him and he believes his own publicity.

Why am I so sure? The way he's acting reminds me a helluva lot like I have. I would say I am emotional and highly strung. My wife used to be in my ear day in day out telling me I earned this promotion or that pay increase until I finally believed it myself and went and demanded (and 99% got) it from my boss.

He's not being 2 faced because it's not about money for him. The other examples are squarely about money. For Favre, it's a "I should be allowed to go out on my terms" deal. So, he sees a discrepancy and I can, too.

[Carolina_Packer]

I am OK with Brett taking the time he needs to decide if he's fully committed to playing. I am not OK with the apparent lack of communication, and communication through other spokespeople (until now), and the cryptic messages apparently from him that trickled in during the off-season. I think he would have been better served to get out in front of the issue before it became a misunderstanding.

I don't know if management had "a secret hope" that Favre would just retire. When you read the timeline given, it appears there was hope until the team was rebuffed in late March/early April and then they just took him at his word that he was retiring. I think it would have been irresponsible not to move on with who was going to be there and plan the draft accordingly.

I think it was somewhat assumptive on Brett's part to think that once he finally made up his mind to play that the Packers would just accept his indefinite time-table. Sometimes you do have to work within the constructs of the team and what they are trying to accomplish, rather than just thinking about what works best for you, even if you are a much accomplished player.

Going back to the communication issue, I wish Favre had laid it out to management how he wishes he could have waited until camp to decide. I don't know if they would have let him do that without a definite answer, but I think it caused some issues when he finally made his wishes known to MM June 20th to which MM said, "Well, why didn't you just say that?" Again, no guarantee that would have been acceptable.

To me, the way a guy handles his off-season, retirement business is secondary to the way he's capable of playing for the team and the result he is able to produce. But, that does not excuse being less than professional and handling your business through others and in the media. All this could have been avoided if Brett could have just made up his mind sooner. He's a big boy and should take full responsibility for retiring and not put that on the Packers at all. Yes, they may have been looking for an answer, however, if you feel like you hold the cards, why not just level with them and say, I'm not ready to make a final decision and won't be until x date/timeframe? Were the Packers supposed to not believe him when he said he was not fully committed? Were they supposed to wait until/if he was? Hard to make plans for an upcoming season under such unknowns.

[Patler]

A little. I didn't think he was the type to triangulate. He doesn't seem to have done a lot of it, but I expected him to be more of a direct guy. Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy are giving you mixed signals and/or the wrong signals? You fly up to Green Bay and tell them in person where you're coming from rather than talking to Al Jones or Greta, etc.

That is what I find amazing. I assumed him to be a more direct person than that in dealing with the team. Dealing through the media and/or others is not what I expected from him. He also seems to expect the Packers to come to him, rather than him going to them. It's kind of wimpy.

[Carolina_Packer]

He's not being 2 faced because it's not about money for him. The other examples are squarely about money. For Favre, it's a "I should be allowed to go out on my terms" deal. So, he sees a discrepancy and I can, too.

And, I think he did go out on his own terms and used his own words. Now I think he's being somewhat disingenuous to say that the team needed an answer at the time and that was the best one I had. If he knew that he wasn't ready to fully commit either way, he should never have done it and should have let management know that instead of retiring to satisfy their need for closure. It makes his original decision seem poorly conceived. A player can go out on their terms if they really know what those terms are, and I don't know if Brett did or does.

[Tarlam!]

Carolina, to keep my view in the perspective from where it was written, I differentiate BF's situation from Walker's/ McKenzie's.

I think Favre really believes what he's saying. I disgree with him, but, this is unlike the other examples Patler proposes as "benchmarks" IMHO.

I know myself, and when the dust settles on this, I will have fond memories left an the current sour taste in my mouth will be gone.

But if Brett and I die tonight and I happen to meet him on some cloud, I'll give him a serious finger lashing!

[mraynrand]

A little. I didn't think he was the type to triangulate. He doesn't seem to have done a lot of it, but I expected him to be more of a direct guy. Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy are giving you mixed signals and/or the wrong signals? You fly up to Green Bay and tell them in person where you're coming from rather than talking to Al Jones or Greta, etc.

That is what I find amazing. I assumed him to be a more direct person than that in dealing with the team. Dealing through the media and/or others is not what I expected from him. He also seems to expect the Packers to come to him, rather than him going to them. It's kind of wimpy.

Agreed. The warning signs were there. The biggest warning sign was Favre retiring'cold.' I was certain he would play until he got hurt or they yanked him because he started to suck. Plus it looks like he really did get to the point where he thought he was bigger than the team. (and THE REASON Harlan let Sherman go). The GM is in charge. Harlan had to pick a tough as nails GM who would put the team concept first. Looks like Brett forgot how to deal with that. (The GM decides who to interview for coach, the GM decides which FAs to resign, the GM decides whether to sign a FA WR). The QB studies the playbook and runs the offense.

[Patler]

His round about approach since June is absolutely baffling to me, and his gig with VanSustern to me was a childish response to what has happened.

I have to admit, his "the team comes first" proclamations in other situations now seem a bit hollow to me. Now that he has a conflict with the team, whether it be over money, playing time or his retirement, all of a sudden the team is doing wrong by him. However, he didn't see that in the situations for the others.

If Sharpe, Walker or others were supposed to trust the team to take care of their money situations why shouldn't he just trust the team with respect to his roster position? He should come out of retirement, report to camp and let the team take care of it.

.... or, maybe he should have kept his opinions to himself in the other situations. I wonder how he would respond if teammates went to the media with comments that Favre should just report and shut up? What if they said, "I hope the team doesn't give in to him. Others can take his place." After all, that is what he said about Walker.

I do see inconsistencies in his positions.

[Carolina_Packer]

I think Favre hoped/expected to be welcomed back as the starter no matter when he decided and is surprised that the team didn't keep his place for him, rather than pretending to move on without him and guessing that he might come back. What if he had stayed retired? Then that guessing game would have looked foolish. They were in a tough spot no matter what Brett decided because they did give Rodgers the opportunity and would now have to bench him if they really want Favre back at all. It doesn't sound like Brett will accept coming back and competing for his starters job back because again, I think he hoped/expected they'd take him back no matter when he decided. Surprise, Brett! They could still do it, but at this point, there is no reason to think they will reverse themselves and bench Rodgers, so they're at the proverbial impasse.

[Patler]

A little. I didn't think he was the type to triangulate. He doesn't seem to have done a lot of it, but I expected him to be more of a direct guy. Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy are giving you mixed signals and/or the wrong signals? You fly up to Green Bay and tell them in person where you're coming from rather than talking to Al Jones or Greta, etc.

That is what I find amazing. I assumed him to be a more direct person than that in dealing with the team. Dealing through the media and/or others is not what I expected from him. He also seems to expect the Packers to come to him, rather than him going to them. It's kind of wimpy.

Agreed. The warning signs were there. The biggest warning sign was Favre retiring'cold.' I was certain he would play until he got hurt or they yanked him because he started to suck. Plus it looks like he really did get to the point where he thought he was bigger than the team. (and THE REASON Harlan let Sherman go). The GM is in charge. Harlan had to pick a tough as nails GM who would put the team concept first. Looks like Brett forgot how to deal with that. (The GM decides who to interview for coach, the GM decides which FAs to resign, the GM decides whether to sign a FA WR). The QB studies the playbook and runs the offense.

I couldn't agree more.

[Tarlam!]

I do see inconsistencies in his positions.

So do I. This is Brett Favre and the other guys weren't. And he is right on that.

But, he has gone about it the exact wrong way those other names did.

[Patler]

As some of you suggest or imply, whether consciously of unconsciously, it seems like Favre thinks of himself as a bit above the team. I never expected that. While he says he can understand that they "moved on" without him, his actions and other statements suggest that he does not understand it, and certainly does not accept that they have.

I thought he had a better understanding of the NFL situation. I thought he was more "old school" about individuals relationships to teams.

[Bub]

My opinion has changed. In years past I've just sort of ignored issues regarding his personality. This has brought all of those feelings and frustrations back.

Looking back, his criticism of holdout players was a joke. He claimed to be all about doing what's best for the team, but the last 3 years he has waffled in regards to retirement...this year being the worst. Is that in the best interest of the team, or BF? I hated MM's and JW's contract bickering, but I also hate 2 faced people. It's time to grow up. If I told my employer that i was retiring, they'd give me a pat on the back, hire someone else to replace me, and plan a party. I don't feel sorry for you BF....it's time for you to grow up. You are an adult now. Stand up for the choices you have made. "But..if you retired you could get a new job..." Stop it....BF could get a new job. Work for Fox/ESPN/NFLN...whatever. You signed a contract in the NFL...don't expect to play anywhere you want whenever you want.

Back when Sherman was canned he cried about not wanting to learn another system. He was "too old" to learn something new. Now he's whining about not going somewhere else.

He waits until this has all boiled out of control before saying anything personally. That just annoys me. If you have something to say, say it. Don't speak through family members and your agent.

As much as the team owes him some respect, he owes the team some respect. They made him as much as he made them (if that makes any sense). The guy gets paid handsomely and made him a star....the Packers paid you what they owe you. He didn't get that ring and those stats by himself.

Him saying he deserves to be released is a joke. How can he not see why we wouldn't want to release him. He would run off to Minn and play us twice a year. Not only would that hurt to see him in purple, but he knows the Packers like no one else. Do you think he'd be able to provide insider info? "Oh, I prefer somewhere cooler then Tampa...". "I want to play for a contender". Well Sparky, most contenders already have QBs...except for Minn. Plus, he has value....why would the Pack give away something that has value.

I grew up in Wisconsin and have been a lifelong Packer fan. I've love BF and enjoy watching him. His selfishness has just annoyed me lately and I'm ready to move on. I know AR isn't going to be half the QB Lord Favre is, but it's time to take that chance. I don't care if we only win 4 games this year, I’ll still be watching every game and I'll still support the decision the Packers made.

The Packers come before ANY player.

[Patler]

Bub, a very well-stated position. I can't say I disagree with anything.

[australianpackerbacker]

Let's not argue in this thread who is right, who is wrong, what should or shouldn't be done. Let's not argue if he can or can not perform at a high level on the field. Let's limit it to a discussion of Favre the person. I'll pose this question:

Based on what has occurred since the end of the 2007 season and Favre's own statements and actions, has your opinion changed about Brett Favre as a person/team mate, and if so, how?

Consider the following:

All that has occurred since his retirement press conference.
His comments over his career regarding team, players commitment to the team, players' holdouts (Sharpe, MacKenzie, Walker, etc.) and how the team should respond to their holdout threats, etc.

As further discussion, how significant were his ramblings in the VanSustern "interview" in you changing or not changing your opinion of him?

In my opinion, how can you really blame the man for becoming the way he is.

Picture this.

Everyone in your home town absolutely adores you. Your one of the best football players to EVER play the game. Your constantly being heaped praise from every direction. You're a multimillionaire. Your face is on TV as much as most hollywood actors. Can you honestly say to yourself if you were put in his position you would not change at all into a me-guy? I know i probably wouldnt stay as normal as brett favre has over the last 10-15 years. And it took him towards the end of his career, to become this type of person.

Everybody loves him because he is the type of person that people magnetize to, that is precisley why half the fans are split on one side of the fence and half are on the other. In my opinion that is why most people are torn about this situation because of how much they have LOVED watching this charismatic country boy take the game of football to another level for the past 17 years with a level of passion and enthusiasm that no player has yet to match. Because of this, to some he is without fault, no matter what he says or does they stick by him as you would a brother/sister.

Ill save my anger/hatred/dissapointment for brett favre until he turns into a wife beater, a drunk, or a child molester. Until then, he will still be one of my all time favourite players.

[packinpatland]

After listening to the 2nd part of the interview last night, I am more behind Favre and like him even more than ever. Mostly because of the headlines this morning, about him 'calling their bluff'. The media makes it sound like he emphatically said that.......he didn't, it wasn't a serious point in the interview. This is the kind of media crap that has been going on for years.

Look back at that press conference that was called when he was at the golf tournament down in MS a few years ago.........the media said he had an announcement to make.........what did Brett say? "I don't know what you all are doing down here"

If anything, I'm tired of Brett being honest and open, I'm tired of the press taking advantage of it.

[Tarlam!]

Hey australianpackerbacker, are you sure you're only 21?

Great post. Makin' the other Aussie around here proud already! 8-)

[The Leaper]

Plus it looks like he really did get to the point where he thought he was bigger than the team. (and THE REASON Harlan let Sherman go).

Yeah, Sherman's pathetic drafting ability and poor postseason record had nothing to do with it.

[australianpackerbacker]

Hey australianpackerbacker, are you sure you're only 21?

Great post. Makin' the other Aussie around here proud already! 8-)

Lol thanks for the indirect compliment. I see myself as an honest person so i see no reason to bullshit, quite frankly.

[australianpackerbacker]

Plus it looks like he really did get to the point where he thought he was bigger than the team. (and THE REASON Harlan let Sherman go).

Yeah, Sherman's pathetic drafting ability and poor postseason record had nothing to do with it.

Agreed. Sherman was a huge factor for favres behaviour toward the end of his career.

[mraynrand]

One other point a bit off the track. But I can't stand 'Greta' and her tragedy TV crap. She runs these personal tragedy stories as though they are the norm - and scares the hell out of a lot of people. There are bad people, predators in our society, but to hear Greta tell it, they are lurking around every tree, waiting to snatch up your children. There's godawful stuff on that program. And softballing guys like Favre is par for the course for 'Greta' - Blecch. And it follows Hannity and Colmes - both of whom I can't stand - the Smug little prick Hannity and the Skeletal, embalmed non-thinker Colmes. Just having to look at those two makes me want to puke. Then I had to watch 'Greta' 'interview' 'Favre.' BTW, who the hell was that guy who looked a lot like the guy who QBed the Packers for 16 years?

(Rant over)

[Patler]

In my opinion, how can you really blame the man for becoming the way he is.

Picture this.

Everyone in your home town absolutely adores you. Your one of the best football players to EVER play the game. Your constantly being heaped praise from every direction. You're a multimillionaire. Your face is on TV as much as most hollywood actors. Can you honestly say to yourself if you were put in his position you would not change at all into a me-guy? I know i probably wouldnt stay as normal as brett favre has over the last 10-15 years. And it took him towards the end of his career, to become this type of person.

Everybody loves him because he is the type of person that people magnetize to, that is precisley why half the fans are split on one side of the fence and half are on the other. In my opinion that is why most people are torn about this situation because of how much they have LOVED watching this charismatic country boy take the game of football to another level for the past 17 years with a level of passion and enthusiasm that no player has yet to match. Because of this, to some he is without fault, no matter what he says or does they stick by him as you would a brother/sister.

Ill save my anger/hatred/dissapointment for brett favre until he turns into a wife beater, a drunk, or a child molester. Until then, he will still be one of my all time favourite players.

It's not blaming Favre. It's not about being angry, hateful or disappointed in him. But I think you did hit on a key point that is being demonstrated by all that is happening. Favre is NOT much different than any of the other mega-superstars, even though many had hoped or believed that he was. It is those opinions that I think might be changing.

[mraynrand]

Plus it looks like he really did get to the point where he thought he was bigger than the team. (and THE REASON Harlan let Sherman go).

Yeah, Sherman's pathetic drafting ability and poor postseason record had nothing to do with it.

Yawn. Nice all or none thinking. Of course other factors were involved. My point: Sherman's inability to put team over individual was a critical flaw and a significant reason he didn't make a good GM - and it's the most relevant point to this conversation about Favre.

[The Leaper]

Yawn. Nice all or none thinking. Of course other factors were involved. My point: Sherman's inability to put team over individual was a critical flaw and a significant reason he didn't make a good GM - and it's the most relevant point to this conversation about Favre.

You are absolutely incorrect.

Sherman did put the team first. Sherman was not a huge ego. He was trying to put pieces together so the team could win. He just had no clue how to do it.

He just sucked at being a GM, and was mostly mediocre as a coach. He coddled Favre because he thought that was best. He was wrong.

[australianpackerbacker]

It's not blaming Favre. It's not about being angry, hateful or disappointed in him. But I think you did hit on a key point that is being demonstrated by all that is happening. Favre is NOT much different than any of the other mega-superstars, even though many had hoped or believed that he was. It is those opinions that I think might be changing.

Yes, agreed. I just wanted to show people a different perspective on the situation that they may or may not have put much focus on. It is easy to change your opinion of somebody, but a little bit more difficult to see the reasons behind why this person may be acting like this.

[oregonpackfan]

I agreee that Bub makes some strong points.

As 3M suggested, I believe Favre is gradually tarnishing his legacy as an all-time great QB and as an all-time great Green Bay Packer.

I want to remember him as the competitive, free-spirit that he is or was.

To paraphrase the Christian standard of "What would Jesus do?" I have to ask "What would Vince do?" Frankly, I think Vince would be taking the same position as 3M and TT.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wouldn't say my opinion of him has changed significantly. I've always had the impression that Favre is not too bright and fairly easily manipulated.

I wouldn't call him high strung--more like the opposite--low key and easy going. I also wouldn't accuse him of putting himself above the other players--unless maybe if he is led to do that. It seems like he just wants to be one of the boys. I also think the image that he is like a little kid is a true one--both in the good sense and the bad sense.

Unfortunately, the recent fiasco has been the perfect storm bringing together all the elements of his bad side.

Just the same, I didn't read quite as much badness and bitterness inot his interview, and I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped out of it and ended up playing in Green Bay as a content backup. I don't say "starter" because I think the best he could hope for is competition with Rodgers starting out as the incimbent--and I think Brett loses that competition.

[The Leaper]

Frankly, I think Vince would be taking the same position as 3M and TT.

Considering how much Vince liked to win (it's the only thing) I'm guessing he would've done what was needed to get Favre back this year and gun for a title.

[australianpackerbacker]

To paraphrase the Christian standard of "What would Jesus do?" I have to ask "What would Vince do?" Frankly, I think Vince would be taking the same position as 3M and TT.

With a few solid blows to favres head, nonetheless!

[The Leaper]

This I know:

Vince Lombardi would not have named a starting QB before the start of the season. Aaron Rodgers would not be "given" anything...he would have to earn it like anyone else.

[mraynrand]

Yawn. Nice all or none thinking. Of course other factors were involved. My point: Sherman's inability to put team over individual was a critical flaw and a significant reason he didn't make a good GM - and it's the most relevant point to this conversation about Favre.

You are absolutely incorrect.

Sherman did put the team first. Sherman was not a huge ego. He was trying to put pieces together so the team could win. He just had no clue how to do it.

He just sucked at being a GM, and was mostly mediocre as a coach. He coddled Favre because he thought that was best. He was wrong.

Are you now saying other factors were not involved? That's what it means when you say I'm now 'absolutely incorrect.' Also, 'coddling' a person is putting that person above the interests of the team, whether the person doing the coddling thinks it's in the best interests of the team or not. I wasn't addressing Sherman's intent, just his effect.

[Patler]

Frankly, I think Vince would be taking the same position as 3M and TT.

Considering how much Vince liked to win (it's the only thing) I'm guessing he would've done what was needed to get Favre back this year and gun for a title.

I don't know, he threw away a perfectly good, future NFL Hall of Fame center who was still in his prime. He did not try to make that situation work.

[Patler]

Sherman was not a huge ego.

From what I have read from those who worked for him, you are incorrect. Several articles have said that Sherman had a huge ego problem, and was difficult to work with because of it. It has been said that he trusted no one and could delegate no work.

[The Leaper]

It has been said that he trusted no one and could delegate no work.

I'm not so sure that was entirely because of ego. The guy was incompetant as a leader and did not understand the art of delegation. That doesn't make him a big ego.

There was no reason to take a high school teacher and make him the coach and GM of the Green Bay Packers. He didn't have the necessary experience to handle that responsibility, and it showed.

[The Leaper]

I don't know, he threw away a perfectly good, future NFL Hall of Fame center who was still in his prime. He did not try to make that situation work.

True...but a center isn't nearly as important to winning in the NFL as a QB is, especially when you have the rest of the OL Lombardi had.

Lombardi overlooked the antics of talented guys like Hornung quite often. He knew where his bread was buttered.

[LL2]

My opinion of Favre has changed a little. I still think he’s the greatest QB in Packer history and appreciate all that he has done and played through. I think he should not have retired if he had a little desire to still play. He should have reversed his retirement position much earlier. I think the Packers management are doing the right thing.

[LaFours]

His round about approach since June is absolutely baffling to me, and his gig with VanSustern to me was a childish response to what has happened.

I have to admit, his "the team comes first" proclamations in other situations now seem a bit hollow to me. Now that he has a conflict with the team, whether it be over money, playing time or his retirement, all of a sudden the team is doing wrong by him. However, he didn't see that in the situations for the others.

If Sharpe, Walker or others were supposed to trust the team to take care of their money situations why shouldn't he just trust the team with respect to his roster position? He should come out of retirement, report to camp and let the team take care of it.

.... or, maybe he should have kept his opinions to himself in the other situations. I wonder how he would respond if teammates went to the media with comments that Favre should just report and shut up? What if they said, "I hope the team doesn't give in to him. Others can take his place." After all, that is what he said about Walker.

I do see inconsistencies in his positions.

I love it that I can always count on Patler to be of the same opinion, but he's always much more articulate. I feel the same way, but now that Patler has clarified how I feel, I can tell others.

Thanks Patler!