Article T Minus 10...9...8...7

[MJZiggy]

By Vince (Part 1 of a 2 part series)
Like a towering black cloud hovering over Green Bay, the media’s unending coverage of and fans’ interest in the continuing saga of Brett Favre‘s impending return to the league will reach its peak...READ MORE (http://packerrats.com)

[Harlan Huckleby]

That was a fantastic bit of work, must been painful to piece together all those unpleasant and embarassing episodes.

I'd like to email that article to all the sports radio hosts. Many in the national media don't know much of the story, they act like Ted Thompson simply gave Favre the bum's rush. JT the Brick at FoxSports is the most ignorant of all.

[Packerarcher]

A little one sided wasn't it?

[vince]

Harlan, I know you've been following this closely, so that comment means a lot from you. Email away, although I wouldn't hold my breath about any of the major media outlets being real excited about upsetting the gift that keeps on giving - Brett Favre.

Archer, the purpose of the article is to point out and string together the facts and perspectives that are mostly not being covered as part of this ongoing story in the mainstream media. So yes, from that perspective, it's one-sided, as is its intent. You can just review the dozens of articles written that skip over these facts to read about the "other side."

I'd be interested in your debate about which specific facts you would contend rather than a broad criticism that avoids any details.

[Harlan Huckleby]

A little one sided wasn't it?

I think we got Favre's side of the story in the Gretta interview, he wasn't exactly pulling his punches. I don't remember much from Favre that would specifically contradict the details that Vince pieced together. I suppose Favre would deny that he had serious interests in playing for the Vikes, that is largely speculative.

Most of what one hears attacking the Packers has been very general and uninformed.

[KYPack]

Nice job, Vince.

That's one of the better "timeline" articles I've seen.

Now, I hope I don't ever read another timeline after this year, but that's a decent re-cap.

[prsnfoto]

Harlan, I know you've been following this closely, so that comment means a lot from you. Email away, although I wouldn't hold my breath about any of the major media outlets being real excited about upsetting the gift that keeps on giving - Brett Favre.

Archer, the purpose of the article is to point out and string together the facts and perspectives that are mostly not being covered as part of this ongoing story in the mainstream media. So yes, from that perspective, it's one-sided, as is its intent. You can just review the dozens of articles written that skip over these facts to read about the "other side."

I'd be interested in your debate about which specific facts you would contend rather than a broad criticism that avoids any details.

Your piece is no different than any other journalists pieces the Packers and Favre say something and everyone quotes it as a fact when the fact(see I can use that word too) is they may all be lying including Brett. I do know one thing after watching TT for 3 years he is a cool pickle and I have no question he could look you in the eye and lie. I will say one thing as an outsider looking in if all of your timeline is factual Brett retired wanting to go to another team from the get go and is a horrible traitor if they are FACTS.

[Joemailman]

The Double Reverse Vince talks about suggests something I had mentioned before. That is, when TT and MM welcomed Favre back in late March, they called Favre's bluff. Favre was probably expecting TT to say no, and Favre would ask for his release. I would like to know how early Favre and Bevell were talking. Perhaps we'll find out this week.

[Fritz]

Harlan, I know you've been following this closely, so that comment means a lot from you. Email away, although I wouldn't hold my breath about any of the major media outlets being real excited about upsetting the gift that keeps on giving - Brett Favre.

Archer, the purpose of the article is to point out and string together the facts and perspectives that are mostly not being covered as part of this ongoing story in the mainstream media. So yes, from that perspective, it's one-sided, as is its intent. You can just review the dozens of articles written that skip over these facts to read about the "other side."

I'd be interested in your debate about which specific facts you would contend rather than a broad criticism that avoids any details.

Your piece is no different than any other journalists pieces the Packers and Favre say something and everyone quotes it as a fact when the fact(see I can use that word too) is they may all be lying including Brett. I do know one thing after watching TT for 3 years he is a cool pickle and I have no question he could look you in the eye and lie. I will say one thing as an outsider looking in if all of your timeline is factual Brett retired wanting to go to another team from the get go and is a horrible traitor if they are FACTS.

Certainly "facts" are hard to establish. I agree with you there. However, one thing Vince did not mention that might allay some of the criticisms in this thread is that what I see as one of the key pieces - TT and MM responding to Favre's changingmind by borrowing a private jet from a Board member and flying to Mississippi to work out the details of Favre's return - is a piece that Favre himself has not disputed. This being a fact, as far as I can tell based on what I've read and seen, it appears to me that Favre at one point changed his mind, then changed it back. This occurred after his retirement, of course, and so to me this puts to rest much of the sentiment that Favre was forced out.

[oregonpackfan]

Superbly written article, Vince!

If I could describe your article in one word, it would be "waffling."

Favre has been waffling not only this past post-season but the past 3 years. From a mangerial standpoint, I think TT and 3M are understandably fatigued with Favre's stance.

They have accommodated him extensively in the past 3 years. Given Favre's impending age of 39, and the fact that Rodgers has been groomed to be Favre's successor, I support their decision to "move one" without Favre as the given starter.

[Patler]

Superbly written article, Vince!

If I could describe your article in one word, it would be "waffling."

Favre has been waffling not only this past post-season but the past 3 years. From a mangerial standpoint, I think TT and 3M are understandably fatigued with Favre's stance.

They have accommodated him extensively in the past 3 years. Given Favre's impending age of 39, and the fact that Rodgers has been groomed to be Favre's successor, I support their decision to "move one" without Favre as the given starter.

I agree.
Nice article Vince. Obviously took more then just a little work to put together.

OPF - "waffling" describes Favre quite well. Can you imagine being MM and trying to get your squad to commit wholeheartedly to your program and philosophy? Trying to sell the goal oriented team philosophy, with commitment year round from the individual players toward that goal? But year after year having the face of year team going on and on about not knowing if he wants to play or not? In a way, prolonged indecision by the unquestioned team leader undercuts what TT has been trying to sell, especially in a year like this when they were so close in 2007.

I'm not saying Favre didn't earn the right to waffle somewhat. But year after year after year had to make it a bit trying for TT and MM.

[Fritz]

Superbly written article, Vince!

If I could describe your article in one word, it would be "waffling."

Favre has been waffling not only this past post-season but the past 3 years. From a mangerial standpoint, I think TT and 3M are understandably fatigued with Favre's stance.

They have accommodated him extensively in the past 3 years. Given Favre's impending age of 39, and the fact that Rodgers has been groomed to be Favre's successor, I support their decision to "move one" without Favre as the given starter.

I agree.
Nice article Vince. Obviously took more then just a little work to put together.

OPF - "waffling" describes Favre quite well. Can you imagine being MM and trying to get your squad to commit wholeheartedly to your program and philosophy? Trying to sell the goal oriented team philosophy, with commitment year round from the individual players toward that goal? But year after year having the face of year team going on and on about not knowing if he wants to play or not? In a way, prolonged indecision by the unquestioned team leader undercuts what TT has been trying to sell, especially in a year like this when they were so close in 2007.

I'm not saying Favre didn't earn the right to waffle somewhat. But year after year after year had to make it a bit trying for TT and MM.

patler, did you see the thread here about what Dungy had to say? It applies perfectly to your point: "I put myself in the coach's position, if Peyton had come to me in February and said, 'Hey, I'm retiring,' my whole emphasis to the team for the next four months would be, 'We can't regret not having Peyton Manning, we can't look back, we've got to win, here's what we're going to do on offense now, we're going to do everything that fits Jim Sorgi, we're going to move on, and we can't have the white elephant of Peyton Manning in the back of our heads.' And now, you come back, and well, he is going to be there, maybe he's going to be there for a few weeks, maybe he's into it, maybe he's not. It's not as easy as you think, just to say 'Okay, let's have him come back.' It's a tough situation for both sides, and by the same token, you've got one of the greatest players in the history of your franchise that you do want to take care of, so it's probably a no-win situation right now."

[Patler]

patler, did you see the thread here about what Dungy had to say? It applies perfectly to your point: "I put myself in the coach's position, if Peyton had come to me in February and said, 'Hey, I'm retiring,' my whole emphasis to the team for the next four months would be, 'We can't regret not having Peyton Manning, we can't look back, we've got to win, here's what we're going to do on offense now, we're going to do everything that fits Jim Sorgi, we're going to move on, and we can't have the white elephant of Peyton Manning in the back of our heads.' And now, you come back, and well, he is going to be there, maybe he's going to be there for a few weeks, maybe he's into it, maybe he's not. It's not as easy as you think, just to say 'Okay, let's have him come back.' It's a tough situation for both sides, and by the same token, you've got one of the greatest players in the history of your franchise that you do want to take care of, so it's probably a no-win situation right now."

The Favre situation, and Dungy's hypothetical with Manning make it especially tough for the coach because they are still capable players. The careers of elite athletes often end badly when the athlete's skills diminish but they continue to hang on. What the team is to do with them is difficult. The Packers faced that with Ray Nitschke, and he accepted the backup role, but it was uncomfortable for the fans to see him in that role, and Jim Carter was never really accepted when Nitschke was still around. But deep down fans knew that his days were past, he couldn't run.

Favre created an even worse situation because the presumption is that he can still play as he did last season. However, he forced the team to move on. The team did everything they could to put the Favre era behind them by drafting two QBs, announcing the number retirement, even removing his locker. So now they reverse all that????

Favre certainly has a right to change his mind. But, if retirement was indeed a mistake for him, sometimes people have to live with their mistakes and move on.

[prsnfoto]

Patler wrote:
Favre certainly has a right to change his mind. But, if retirement was indeed a mistake for him, sometimes people have to live with their mistakes and move on.


But that is just it he can't move on he is in purgatory he stays he doesn't play or he stays retired which he doesn't want. I understand why the team can't release him but trade the man it seems the only solution.

I guess this whole think bewilders me there has to be more to the story, a man that we all have loved to watch, has given everything he has every Sunday, played with injuries, says he loves the fans and the city now has said Fuck'em all, I want to go somewhere else. Doesn't add up to me unless he needs medication. One word SAD, I am sad for the fans, i am sad for the league, i am sad for A-Rod, and i am sad for Brett. Speaking of A-Rod I am only forty but for whatever reason most of my friends are 50-55 and they all were talking about how Carter was treated when he replaced Ray and how he could make a good play and the fans booed him and Ray would come off the bench and make a tackle that was average and get a standing ovation. Carter to this day has bad feelings toward the city and I will venture to say if A-Rod throws a pick(ironic) or gets hurt he will feel the same wrath.

[Patler]

But that is just it he can't move on he is in purgatory he stays he doesn't play or he stays retired which he doesn't want. I understand why the team can't release him but trade the man it seems the only solution.


But he can move on. Stay retired. Accept that maybe he retired a year or two before he should have, but put it behind him. He's a grown man. He made a decision. He may not be able to change it now. It may be out of his control. He can continue to insist on it, making it difficult for himself, his family, his fans and his former team. Or, he can accept his predicament.

Nothing says that Favre absolutely has to get his way.

[Patler]

Speaking of A-Rod I am only forty but for whatever reason most of my friends are 50-55 and they all were talking about how Carter was treated when he replaced Ray and how he could make a good play and the fans booed him and Ray would come off the bench and make a tackle that was average and get a standing ovation. Carter to this day has bad feelings toward the city and I will venture to say if A-Rod throws a pick(ironic) or gets hurt he will feel the same wrath.

The fans were pretty brutal on Carter, I think because Nitschke was still on the sidelines. Whereas fans may have been tolerant and accepting of Rodgers when Favre retired, the way Favre has stirred this mess up now will make it extremely tough on Rodgers. Some fans will always look at him as the guy who prevented Favre from playing another year.

[Joemailman]

Patler wrote:
Favre certainly has a right to change his mind. But, if retirement was indeed a mistake for him, sometimes people have to live with their mistakes and move on.


But that is just it he can't move on he is in purgatory he stays he doesn't play or he stays retired which he doesn't want. I understand why the team can't release him but trade the man it seems the only solution.

Favre wants a release. He's said nothing about wanting to be traded. I suspect the reason is that the team he wants to play for, Minnesota, is a team that he knows TT will not trade with. So he will try to force a release. His problem now is that the tampering charges against Minnesota, if upheld by the league, may put Minnesota out of the picture. In that case, I suspect Favre will either report to the Packers or stay retired.

[cpk1994]

Patler wrote:
Favre certainly has a right to change his mind. But, if retirement was indeed a mistake for him, sometimes people have to live with their mistakes and move on.


But that is just it he can't move on he is in purgatory he stays he doesn't play or he stays retired which he doesn't want. I understand why the team can't release him but trade the man it seems the only solution.

Favre wants a release. He's said nothing about wanting to be traded. I suspect the reason is that the team he wants to play for, Minnesota, is a team that he knows TT will not trade with. So he will try to force a release. His problem now is that the tampering charges against Minnesota, if upheld by the league, may put Minnesota out of the picture. In that case, I suspect Favre will either report to the Packers or stay retired.The charges have already put Minnesota out of the picture. THey aren't going to go after him especailly after charges have been levied against them. IF they try to go after Favre now the charges get more credibility.

[Fritz]

i don't know that I agree. If the charges are found to be true and Minnesota is penalized, and then has the chance to get Favre legally, why wouldn't they?

Or if they think they can beat the tampering charge, which is tough to prove I think, why not go after Favre?

[Joemailman]

If the NFL finds Minnesota guilty, I would imagine part of their "sentence" would be that they not pursue Favre. Convicted bankrobbers don't get to keep the money. If Minnesota is cleared of tampering, they could well still be interested in Favre.

[Fritz]

Did San Fran get banned from pursuing Briggs?

[Joemailman]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-49ersinvestigated022108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

If I'm reading this story right, the 49ers were no longer interested in Briggs when they were charged with tampering.