Training Camp 2008

[Ballboy]

Lets get off the Brett topic and talk about TC2008. Lets make a few assumptions here and move on:

1) Brett won't be back.
2) Grant will be signed.

With that out of the way, what positions most interest you?

What roster spots are up for grabs?

Any surprise cuts?

I have three postions that really interest me. The first is TE.....Lee is good but I have high hopes for Jermichael Finley. I think he will be able to stretch the field more and add speed to the position. Tory Humphrey has been around, but just never seems to put it all together

FS/S should be great. Here I see Collins as maybe a late preseason trade as Bigby and Rouse may take over. Culver is a good backup and who knows how much longer Woodson & Harris will last at CB. Rouse played well at times last year being a ballhawk, but his man on man coverage skills still need work.

OL - changes could be in the making. The tackle & center positions are set, but the battle for guard could be interesting. I am a big fan of having the same OL from year to year, but in a few games last year our guards were very weak.

Any thoughts to the battles in camp this year?

Who here on Packerrats will be in charge of downloading pics for those poor souls like me that can't make it to camp?

[oregonpackfan]

The WR positions interest me as this is the deepest field the Packers have had in years. While the established starters' position appear secure, the question will be: "Who gets cut and/or put on the practice squad?"

[Joemailman]

Barbre was getting as much time with the first unit as Colledge at LG, so that is a battle. It may come down to who is more consistent, as that has been Colledge's downfall.

Chillar will probably win the starting job from Poppinga, but that should be an interesting battle. Poppinga will need to show much improvement in pass coverage to keep the job.

Aaron Rouse showed ballhawk skills when he filled in for Nick Collins last year at FS. I suspect they will stick with Collins, but you never know if Rouse has a great preseason.

Tramon Wiliams should have the upper hand at Nickle as Patrick Lee is still learning. I think Bush is in trouble unless Will Blackmon can't make it physically.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Chillar will probably win the starting job from Poppinga, but that should be an interesting battle. Poppinga will need to show much improvement in pass coverage to keep the job. .

I think Poppinga has already shown that improvement and will hold on to the starting job.

Every team needs a starter-quality 4th linebacker, I don't read too much into the Chillar acquisition.

[Freak Out]

I think this could be the year Collins loses his starting job and the OL battles will be interesting. Jackson looks like he could push Grant a bit if he stays healthy and Grant shows up.

[Gunakor]

I'm ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. I'm anxious to see if his success in limited action last season will carry over on a permanent basis this season.

[Gunakor]

Chillar will probably win the starting job from Poppinga, but that should be an interesting battle. Poppinga will need to show much improvement in pass coverage to keep the job. .

I think Poppinga has already shown that improvement and will hold on to the starting job.

Every team needs a starter-quality 4th linebacker, I don't read too much into the Chillar acquisition.


I've been hearing about Green Bay playing with a 3-4 defense in MC and OTA's. I'm not entirely opposed to it, with Corey Williams having been traded to Cleveland. Reports are that the 3-4 would consist of Kampman, Pickett, and Jenkins across the line, with Poppinga and Hawk as the OLB's and Barnett and Chillar as the ILB's. I'm not sure if Bob Sanders is the guy we'd want coaching a 3-4, but if he's capable then that is a scary good defensive personell package. I've always thought a 3-4 was a better package anyway, as it is more difficult to run against and creates more confusion for the OL on blitzes.

[Joemailman]

I don't think they were talking about the 3-4 being the base package. Just something they would use from time to time. Kampman isn't really a 3-4 end, but could probably handle the job on a limited basis.

[The Leaper]

Every team needs a starter-quality 4th linebacker, I don't read too much into the Chillar acquisition.

I agree. It seems the largest positive that Chillar possesses is his ability to play any LB position. We had nothing behind our top 3 last year...now we have a guy we can plug in anywhere when needed.

[Gunakor]

I don't think they were talking about the 3-4 being the base package. Just something they would use from time to time. Kampman isn't really a 3-4 end, but could probably handle the job on a limited basis.

No he's not. But it would allow Hawk or Poppinga an opportunity at a double digit sack season. That would appease all of those people bashing Hawk for not being a playmaker. Chillar is versatile enough to play ILB as well as he's played OLB in St. Louis. Again, it all depends on the ability of Bob Sanders to coach them up on it. I don't know if he can.

[Ballboy]

I'm ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. I'm anxious to see if his success in limited action last season will carry over on a permanent basis this season.


I as well am interested to see. "Matta Batta Cola" a radio person on the SCORE670 claims that Aaron wouldn't have 400 passing in his first 5 games....of course this is coming from a Chicago based station - funny how the reporters bag on Packers QB situation when they have one of the biggest messes at that position.


Agreed about the 3-4 defense - it came out in OTA's that it may be used in special situations throughout the year, it gives the LB more blitzing chances.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've always thought a 3-4 was a better package anyway, as it is more difficult to run against and creates more confusion for the OL on blitzes.

A 3-4 isn't necessarily harder to run against. Actually, I'd say that the 4-3 is stouter against the run--although the 3-4 causes confusion. To me, a 3-4 defense is likely to cause more turnovers, but it's easier to gouge it for big chunks of yardage on the ground. You need the right personnel to make it work. Cleveland (#29), New England (#28), and Jets (#21) all ranked poorly in yards/rush. San Diego (#16), Pittsburgh (#14), Dallas (#13), and Arizona (#11) were all middle of the pack in yards/rush. The only 3-4 team that I can think of that was really good against the run was Baltimore. They were #1 in yards/rush. Of course, they have two of the best run stuffing DL in the NFL in Haloti Ngata and Kelly Gregg. They'd probably be good against the run no matter what defensive formation they played.

[Sparkey]

Look for Barbre to win the LG spot in camp and Colledge being moved to backup LT where he will eventually replace Clifton at some point.

[Guiness]

A 3-4 isn't necessarily harder to run against. Actually, I'd say that the 4-3 is stouter against the run--although the 3-4 causes confusion. To me, a 3-4 defense is likely to cause more turnovers, but it's easier to gouge it for big chunks of yardage on the ground. You need the right personnel to make it work. Cleveland (#29), New England (#28), and Jets (#21) all ranked poorly in yards/rush. San Diego (#16), Pittsburgh (#14), Dallas (#13), and Arizona (#11) were all middle of the pack in yards/rush. The only 3-4 team that I can think of that was really good against the run was Baltimore. They were #1 in yards/rush. Of course, they have two of the best run stuffing DL in the NFL in Haloti Ngata and Kelly Gregg. They'd probably be good against the run no matter what defensive formation they played.

Not to mention Ray Lewis...

I would also tend to think 3-4 as a base should be easier to run against for consistent yardage (i.e. 4yrd/carry) because of the numbers mismatch in the trenches, 5OL on 3DL...

[The Shadow]

Look for Barbre to win the LG spot in camp and Colledge being moved to backup LT where he will eventually replace Clifton at some point.

Agree.

[boiga]

I agree with most of the posts above.

My only addition is the question about how far Nelson might make it up the roster at WR. He's got a lot more speed than Ruvell, who I'm still mad at for the dropped pass in the NFC championship, but who knows how much experience matters.

The latest JSO article states that Jones has better acceleration, but Nelson has better top end speed. My take is that Jones will keep the #3 position, but Nelson will still see a lot of playing time.

Martin will still get lots of downs in the red zone thanks to his height though. Of course, he's also one of A-Rod's friends on the team, so who knows how that might play.

[Sparkey]

I agree with most of the posts above.

My only addition is the question about how far Nelson might make it up the roster at WR. He's got a lot more speed than Ruvell, who I'm still mad at for the dropped pass in the NFC championship, but who knows how much experience matters.

The latest JSO article states that Jones has better acceleration, but Nelson has better top end speed. My take is that Jones will keep the #3 position, but Nelson will still see a lot of playing time.

Martin will still get lots of downs in the red zone thanks to his height though. Of course, he's also one of A-Rod's friends on the team, so who knows how that might play.

I can see him as the #4 in certain spread formations. I think most of his work this year will be on special teams as an outside gunner and on kick/punt returns. If he can show a secure handle on the ball in camp.

[Patler]

Interesting article about the O-line today. Worth reading:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=775319

I take the following from it:

1. In a couple years Spitz is likely to be the starting center, if Sitton or someone else develops at guard. Apparently, Spitz impressed them at center last year, and they realize they are limited with Wells because of his lack of size and the ever-increasing size of DTs. When drafted, it was said Spitz projected as a center, long term.

2. Barbre-Spitz-Sitton would be big, tenacious and a bit nasty in the middle.

2. Colledge is not the answer for replacing Clifton long term. A clear disappointment so far. May be a career backup.

4. At least one of Moll or Coston is probably gone this year, maybe even both. I think it is more likely that Coston will stay, and Moll will be cut if both are healthy.


For me, the O-line will be the most interesting competition in camp, because it can go so many different ways, both for starters and for those who make the final roster. The starting guards can be any two of Spitz, Colledge, Barbre or Coston, with Sitton having an outside chance to maybe surprise us. If two others play well, suddenly there might be a competition at center between Wells and Spitz. Heck, the middle of the line could even be Barbre-Spitz-Coston when all is said and done. They were quite high on Coston when he started last year.

Coston could be a starter, or could be waived. It is very uncertain for him.

The only thing for certain is that if they are healthy, Clifton and Tauscher are the tackles. The rest could be mixed and matched in many different ways for starters and backups.

[ND72]

I am looking forward to the OL. Competition should make us all better, correct? If that's the case, I'm looking to a much improved OL this year. We have LOTS of talent in house now.

After that, TE is an interest. I really like Finley, but he will most likely be the #2 this year. I just want to see if he's "got it".

Safety is an interest as well. I like Bigby, but I don't know if he's a "fixture" there, or if Rouse or anyone else will push him out. PLUS, Collins has all the tools in the shed, he needs to start to use them.

LB is an interest with Chillar in the picture.

I think the one thing we might all forget about is at DT. Who's filling in for Williams? Does Harrell put it together? Will Jolly be in jail? Will they move Jenkins down? Coaches liked Muir, is he a real thing? Then it goes to DE...what happens if....I know we have KGB, but does it hurt us if Kampman gets hurt (DUH) and KGB is full time in his spot? Does Montgomery every live up to his potential? Jeremy Thompson? Lots of draft buzz about him...does he have it?

WR is an interesting read.

RB is an interesting read.

Heck, even QB is an interesting read.


What I need is for the Brewers to either explode, or suck, so I can have my football season and either enjoy the Crew, or forget about baseball.

[Fritz]

Good points, Patler. I also am curious about the QB situation, specifically Matt Flynn and Brian Brohm. Will they show enough in camp to warrant being the #2 and 3, or will a poor performance by both get Flynn cut and Brohm relegated to third string while TT brings in an aging cripple or ineffective former first round pick?

As for jermichael finley, I think he's a project. He'll be inactive most games, I'd imagine.

Go Orange Junius!

[Patler]

For me, the "battle" at DT is not interesting...it is a concern.
There is Pickett and ????????
I expect little from Harrell early on. Hopefully he can contribute later on.
We may not even see Jolly at all.
If the primary rotation at tackle includes Cole, Bolston, Muir and Pickett; they are in trouble at tackle.

[Guiness]

Good points ND72.

I'm not so concerned about the DL. I think we have enough depth to shuffle things around and make it work. Missing Jolly would leave a pretty big hole to fill, requireing Jenkins to move back inside if Muir isn't up to it, but there's enough bodies to cover even if we have to do that.

The other pos'n I'll watch with some interest is 3rd CB/nickel back. Lee, Blackmon, Bush, T Williams. Bush would seem to be the odd man out, but if Lee isn't ready, or Blackmon isn't 100% healthy? I could see this battle continuing into the season, with Blackmon maybe going on the PUP list for a while...

[Freak Out]

For me, the "battle" at DT is not interesting...it is a concern.
There is Pickett and ????????
I expect little from Harrell early on. Hopefully he can contribute later on.
We may not even see Jolly at all.
If the primary rotation at tackle includes Cole, Bolston, Muir and Pickett; they are in trouble at tackle.

It seems like only yesterday we were "set" at DT for a few years.

[Fritz]

That's the NFL for you. That's why the Best Player Available at draft time seems to work pretty well.

[Ballboy]

As for jermichael finley, I think he's a project. He'll be inactive most games, I'd imagine.

I think Finley may make a contribution. Tory Humphrey hasn't shown much and for lack of a better replacement he will need to be the guy.

I thought the Packers had already said that Cullen was moving back inside or did I just make that up?

[motife]

the assistant coaches think the 2 most improved players on offense may be James Jones and Jason Spitz.

Jones has really bulked up, and Spitz can squat with 700(!) pounds.

[Patler]

and Spitz can squat with 700(!) pounds.

Heck, linemen have to be able to do that just to walk! :lol:

[boiga]

As for jermichael finley, I think he's a project. He'll be inactive most games, I'd imagine.

I think Finley may make a contribution. Tory Humphrey hasn't shown much and for lack of a better replacement he will need to be the guy.
Tory Humphrey's only problem has been injuries. The coaches have been verrry bullish on the guy's potential. Also, Finley dropped a lot of balls during OTC and has a lot of learning to do considering his limited college playing time.

So unless he gets yet another injury, 2nd TE is Humphrey's job to lose.

[bobblehead]

Every team needs a starter-quality 4th linebacker, I don't read too much into the Chillar acquisition.

I agree. It seems the largest positive that Chillar possesses is his ability to play any LB position. We had nothing behind our top 3 last year...now we have a guy we can plug in anywhere when needed.

This is what I read into it. Chillar is a good player at a bargain price, we signed him. Now they can all compete for time. If we could have signed a bargain at ANY position we would have....and let said player compete for time. Its the TT way...and I like it.

[bobblehead]

and Spitz can squat with 700(!) pounds.

Heck, linemen have to be able to do that just to walk! :lol:

Squat is the most important # for a lineman...it shows a low center of gravity for setting up in pass or drive blocking, that is impressive.

I think this is make or break camp for TT's first draft. Guys like College, Coston, Blackman, Montgomery all need BIG camps to survive. They can't afford to miss time and need to impress to stay. All 4 have shown things, but college is inconsistent and coston and blackman can't stay healthy. Montgomery seems merely serviceable, but is stuck behind some real talent at DE. I think they all go if they can't stay healthy AND impress in a big way.

[Patler]

and Spitz can squat with 700(!) pounds.

Heck, linemen have to be able to do that just to walk! :lol:

Squat is the most important # for a lineman...it shows a low center of gravity for setting up in pass or drive blocking, that is impressive.

I think this is make or break camp for TT's first draft. Guys like College, Coston, Blackman, Montgomery all need BIG camps to survive. They can't afford to miss time and need to impress to stay. All 4 have shown things, but college is inconsistent and coston and blackman can't stay healthy. Montgomery seems merely serviceable, but is stuck behind some real talent at DE. I think they all go if they can't stay healthy AND impress in a big way.

I was kidding about the linemen because of their size.

However, the ability to do massive weights in squats proves nothing as to the player's center of gravity, or whether he sets high or low in pass protection. It simply shows that if he does get low he can generate significant thrust with his legs. He can be amazingly powerful, but still set too high to be effective using the power he has available to him. A good example on the defensive side was Kenny Peterson. Set records at Ohio State in the weight room, and was a well-known lifter among the Packers. Never able to harness his power and strength to the same extent as Kampman does, for example.

I agree that many of the players you mentioned need good camps, especially two from TT's first draft, Coston and Montgomery. The others from his first draft (Rodgers, Collins and Poppinga) are pretty safe for this year, even if they are not starters for some reason. Colledge is probably safe to make the roster, Blackmon too unless he is injured again

[bobblehead]

and Spitz can squat with 700(!) pounds.

Heck, linemen have to be able to do that just to walk! :lol:

Squat is the most important # for a lineman...it shows a low center of gravity for setting up in pass or drive blocking, that is impressive.

I think this is make or break camp for TT's first draft. Guys like College, Coston, Blackman, Montgomery all need BIG camps to survive. They can't afford to miss time and need to impress to stay. All 4 have shown things, but college is inconsistent and coston and blackman can't stay healthy. Montgomery seems merely serviceable, but is stuck behind some real talent at DE. I think they all go if they can't stay healthy AND impress in a big way.

I was kidding about the linemen because of their size.

However, the ability to do massive weights in squats proves nothing as to the player's center of gravity, or whether he sets high or low in pass protection. It simply shows that if he does get low he can generate significant thrust with his legs. He can be amazingly powerful, but still set too high to be effective using the power he has available to him. A good example on the defensive side was Kenny Peterson. Set records at Ohio State in the weight room, and was a well-known lifter among the Packers. Never able to harness his power and strength to the same extent as Kampman does, for example.

I agree that many of the players you mentioned need good camps, especially two from TT's first draft, Coston and Montgomery. The others from his first draft (Rodgers, Collins and Poppinga) are pretty safe for this year, even if they are not starters for some reason. Colledge is probably safe to make the roster, Blackmon too unless he is injured again

I understood the joke, I quoted both of you cuz I was too lazy to scroll up futher, but your analysis is really good. Strength alone don't mean squat(coudn't resist) if you don't apply it correctly.

[Guiness]

Squat is the most important # for a lineman...it shows a low center of gravity for setting up in pass or drive blocking, that is impressive.

I think this is make or break camp for TT's first draft. Guys like College, Coston, Blackman, Montgomery all need BIG camps to survive. They can't afford to miss time and need to impress to stay. All 4 have shown things, but college is inconsistent and coston and blackman can't stay healthy. Montgomery seems merely serviceable, but is stuck behind some real talent at DE. I think they all go if they can't stay healthy AND impress in a big way.

While this may be a make it or break it year for the players from TT's first draft, the reason some of these guys go is good - it's because they were beat out, not because they weren't serviceable.

If Coston or Colledge go, it's because Barbre beat them out. Montgomery - Hunter or Thompson.

IMO When you see a guy get released so someone else can be brought in, that's when you know there's trouble. If he gets pushed out by someone else you already have, that shows depth.

Blackmon's the only one who would be a disappointment if we had to release him. And, it could be a guy who doesn't even play his position who pushes him out the door if he is healthy. If Jordy looks good returning punts, that was the one area Blackmon had an opportunity to shine.

[Guiness]

I understood the joke, I quoted both of you cuz I was too lazy to scroll up futher, but your analysis is really good. Strength alone don't mean squat(coudn't resist) if you don't apply it correctly.
I love to tell the story of an RB from the University I went to.

Guy was famous in the weight room - I personally saw him bench 540. However, it didn't as mean much as it should've come game time, because his arms were so short he couldn't use that power to hold off tacklers - by the time he could touch them, a long armed DE would have him wrapped up.

However did he EVER punish guys for tackling him, by giving them a straight shot to the chest/abdomen as they came in. Saw many a guy massaging those areas after taking him down.

[Freak Out]

Don't we need a long snapper?

[Chubbyhubby]

I am interested in seeing how Brian Brohm performs in TC and Preseason. He should get the bulk of playing time in Preseason. Flynn is either 3rd string if he pans out in TC or Practice squad. This team is pretty solid overall depth. I am skepitcal on Aaron Rodgers ability to stay healthy. Thats why Brohm needs to really shine and shine early. If doubt that a veteren will be signed unless either Brohm or Flynn yets injured in TC. Hopefully if Aaron Rodgers does get injured Brohm can step in at a moments notice.

[Gunakor]

I am interested in seeing how Brian Brohm performs in TC and Preseason. He should get the bulk of playing time in Preseason. Flynn is either 3rd string if he pans out in TC or Practice squad. This team is pretty solid overall depth. I am skepitcal on Aaron Rodgers ability to stay healthy. Thats why Brohm needs to really shine and shine early. If doubt that a veteren will be signed unless either Brohm or Flynn yets injured in TC. Hopefully if Aaron Rodgers does get injured Brohm can step in at a moments notice.

If Brohm is needed, then MM will simplify the offense. Example being last season when Rodgers was needed in Dallas. No more shots downfield, just simple high percentage short yardage passing plays that moved the chains. Nothing fancy. Our defense is good enough to keep us in games and allow Brohm a chance to be successful as a rookie, especially in a simplified offense that caters to his inexperience. I'm not worried.

[Chubbyhubby]

I not worried. The 2008 Packers are very similar to last years team. Except for the QB. The only question mark I see this year coming into TC is weather or not Aaron Rogers can take this club forward.




I am interested in seeing how Brian Brohm performs in TC and Preseason. He should get the bulk of playing time in Preseason. Flynn is either 3rd string if he pans out in TC or Practice squad. This team is pretty solid overall depth. I am skepitcal on Aaron Rodgers ability to stay healthy. Thats why Brohm needs to really shine and shine early. If doubt that a veteren will be signed unless either Brohm or Flynn yets injured in TC. Hopefully if Aaron Rodgers does get injured Brohm can step in at a moments notice.

If Brohm is needed, then MM will simplify the offense. Example being last season when Rodgers was needed in Dallas. No more shots downfield, just simple high percentage short yardage passing plays that moved the chains. Nothing fancy. Our defense is good enough to keep us in games and allow Brohm a chance to be successful as a rookie, especially in a simplified offense that caters to his inexperience. I'm not worried.

[bobblehead]

Squat is the most important # for a lineman...it shows a low center of gravity for setting up in pass or drive blocking, that is impressive.

I think this is make or break camp for TT's first draft. Guys like College, Coston, Blackman, Montgomery all need BIG camps to survive. They can't afford to miss time and need to impress to stay. All 4 have shown things, but college is inconsistent and coston and blackman can't stay healthy. Montgomery seems merely serviceable, but is stuck behind some real talent at DE. I think they all go if they can't stay healthy AND impress in a big way.

While this may be a make it or break it year for the players from TT's first draft, the reason some of these guys go is good - it's because they were beat out, not because they weren't serviceable.

If Coston or Colledge go, it's because Barbre beat them out. Montgomery - Hunter or Thompson.

IMO When you see a guy get released so someone else can be brought in, that's when you know there's trouble. If he gets pushed out by someone else you already have, that shows depth.

Blackmon's the only one who would be a disappointment if we had to release him. And, it could be a guy who doesn't even play his position who pushes him out the door if he is healthy. If Jordy looks good returning punts, that was the one area Blackmon had an opportunity to shine.

I sort of agree. I don't think they have to get flat out beat to lose the job. I say they need a BIG camp because with 3 TC's behind them if they aren't stepping UP then we will go with a young guy that is close, but might break out. you only give a guy so many chances to shine and if Hunter is close to Montgomery but monty hasn't shown that he is ready to excel you go with the younger guy who still might.