According to Chris Havel of GB Press Gazette

[Chevelle2]

FAVRE TO TAMPA OR WONT PLAY AT ALL

[RashanGary]

When did he say this? I listened to some of his radio show. He talked about Tampa but I never heard him say Tampa or not at all.

[Chevelle2]

When did he say this? I listened to some of his radio show. He talked about Tampa but I never heard him say Tampa or not at all.

After the break. During the break, he checked with his sources.

[RashanGary]

Interesting. There are three partys involved.

1. The Packers (I feel confident that they want to trade Brett outside of the division) CHECK
2. Buccaneers (there is a lot of speculation and teams shoot things like this down immediately if they are not true) CHECK *Their non action speaks louder than words here*
3. Brett Favre (if Havel says he wants to go to Tampa then I believe it. He knew Brett wanted to come back for months before it came out) CHECK *if you're telling the truth*


Assuming you are telling the truth, it should be done by the beginning of next week as Brett and the Bucs will want to get him into a camp and the Packers will want this whole thing over with and behind them. There is a lot of motivation here. It could work out well for everyone.

[Chevelle2]

Interesting. There are three partys involved.

1. The Packers (I feel confident that they want to trade Brett outside of the division) CHECK
2. Buccaneers (there is a lot of speculation and teams shoot things like this down immediately if they are not true) CHECK *Their non action speaks louder than words here*
3. Brett Favre (if Havel says he wants to go to Tampa then I believe it. He knew Brett wanted to come back for months before it came out) CHECK *if you're telling the truth*


Assuming you are telling the truth, it should be done by the beginning of next week as Brett and the Bucs will want to get him into a camp and the Packers will want this whole thing over with and behind them.

Yep....I'll take crap if I misheard, but Im pretty sure I didnt....FWIW Bucs camp starts next Friday.

[cheesner]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

[RashanGary]

Yikes, that is a late start to TC. That sort of stinks for us because we might have to deal with another full week of drama.

[Charles Woodson]

Yikes, that is a late start to TC. That sort of stinks for us because we might have to deal with another full week of drama.

aww poor baybay

[RashanGary]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

No, but Rodger Goodell did get involved and if he is going to encourage the Packers to act with some haste, I would expect that he encourages suiters to respond in a way that is fair to both sides. I think the NFL realizes this thing is ugly and they just want a quick, fair resolution that is fair for everyone and gets Brett into a team in time to make some money for the NFL. Ulitmately it's a money thing, but I would expect it to be fair as well. Maybe I'm naive but I have confidence in leadership here. I expect a 2nd round pick or something equal.

[Charles Woodson]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

No, but Rodger Goodell did get involved and if he is going to encourage the Packers to act with some haste, I would expect that he encourages suiters to respond in a way that is fair to both sides. I think the NFL realizes this thing is ugly and they just want a quick, fair resolution that is fair for everyone and gets Brett into a team in time to make some money for the NFL. Ulitmately it's a money thing, but I would expect it to be fair as well. Maybe I'm naive but I have confidence in leadership here.

He can encourage Tampa all he wants, but they are the ones with the upper hand. Goodell and the packers want this shit resolved, and i bet Tampa doesnt want to give the asking price. There TC doesnt start for another week so they also have time

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think the Packers are under that much pressure to act. Goodell can enourage, but not force a deal.

I heard a theory on ESPN that Favre is still angling to get released.

[RashanGary]

In that case, if they odn't want to give anything up then the Packers should just sit on Brett and make him wait till the season starts to get his release. He's not the sharpest rock in the quarry so I’m sure both sides have motivation to get something done in a timeframe that allows Brett to learn a new offense.

[Charles Woodson]

In that case, if they odn't want to give anything up then the Packers should just sit on Brett and make him wait till the season starts to get his release. He's not the sharpest rock in the quarry so I’m sure both sides have motivation to get something done in a timeframe that allows Brett to learn a new offense.

If the pack do that, hes as good as gone to the vikings

[CaliforniaCheez]

Chris Havell hasn't been with the Gazette for awhile.

[RashanGary]

I'd let him go at the start fo the season. If he can go in there at the start of the season and grind 120% all year long just to get caught up then he deserves whatever success comes his way. More than likely, I htink he'd choke it away iwth a mistake if he made it to the playoffs anyway. Whatever offense he's running, he's going to be behind and in order for him to play as great as last year he had to be 2 steps ahead. I also don't see AP staying healthy. I don't want him there, but if it's between having him on our team or their team I'd rather he be on their team. I'd just make sure it's his very last option and it would only happen in a timeframe that is hard on him.

[Lurker64]

So if I'm believing the things I'm hearing:

1) Brett doesn't want to play for the Packers.
2) Brett only wants to play for the Packers.
3) Brett doesn't want to be traded to Tampa Bay.
4) Brett doesn't want to be traded to anywhere except Tampa Bay.

When we add in the "Wants to play/Doesn't want to play" angle of the earlier offseason, I find that Brett is a very, very conflicted man.

[Joemailman]

So if I'm believing the things I'm hearing:

1) Brett doesn't want to play for the Packers.
2) Brett only wants to play for the Packers.
3) Brett doesn't want to be traded to Tampa Bay.
4) Brett doesn't want to be traded to anywhere except Tampa Bay.

When we add in the "Wants to play/Doesn't want to play" angle of the earlier offseason, I find that Brett is a very, very conflicted man.

Thanks for clearing it up! :P

[GBRulz]

When did Havel go back to work for the Press Gazette??

[pbmax]

I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


So if I'm believing the things I'm hearing:

1) Brett doesn't want to play for the Packers.
2) Brett only wants to play for the Packers.
3) Brett doesn't want to be traded to Tampa Bay.
4) Brett doesn't want to be traded to anywhere except Tampa Bay.

When we add in the "Wants to play/Doesn't want to play" angle of the earlier offseason, I find that Brett is a very, very conflicted man.

[texaspackerbacker]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

No, but Rodger Goodell did get involved and if he is going to encourage the Packers to act with some haste, I would expect that he encourages suiters to respond in a way that is fair to both sides. I think the NFL realizes this thing is ugly and they just want a quick, fair resolution that is fair for everyone and gets Brett into a team in time to make some money for the NFL. Ulitmately it's a money thing, but I would expect it to be fair as well. Maybe I'm naive but I have confidence in leadership here.

He can encourage Tampa all he wants, but they are the ones with the upper hand. Goodell and the packers want this shit resolved, and i bet Tampa doesn't want to give the asking price. There TC doesnt start for another week so they also have time

No. This is wrong. The Packers are not under any pressure to get anything done. The best thing that can happen is Favre delaying filing the reinstatement papers indefinitely. True, Tampa also may not be under any pressure--they probably could use Favre, but they could just as well play the season without him too.

ESPN says the Packers are asking for a first round pick. That's fine. I doubt anybody will be dumb enough to pay that much, but if they do, fine, take it.

Bottom line is the Packers can just pay Favre his salary and let him sit--f--- the commissioner and the media and anybody else that doesn't like it.

[Joemailman]

I'd let him go at the start fo the season. If he can go in there at the start of the season and grind 120% all year long just to get caught up then he deserves whatever success comes his way. More than likely, I htink he'd choke it away iwth a mistake if he made it to the playoffs anyway. Whatever offense he's running, he's going to be behind and in order for him to play as great as last year he had to be 2 steps ahead. I also don't see AP staying healthy. I don't want him there, but if it's between having him on our team or their team I'd rather he be on their team. I'd just make sure it's his very last option and it would only happen in a timeframe that is hard on him.

It would take Favre about 3 days to learn the Vikings offense. The OC there used to be Favre's quarterback coach. They probably use a lot of similar terminology. Favre has a near photographic memory, and would pick things up quickly.

[packrat]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

[Lurker64]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

His memory takes black and white photographs.

[Gunakor]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

His memory takes black and white photographs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Zool]

It would take Favre about 3 days to learn the Vikings offense. The OC there used to be Favre's quarterback coach. They probably use a lot of similar terminology. Favre has a near photographic memory, and would pick things up quickly.

Bevell has about as much to do with co-ordinating that offense as Chilly had in Philadelphia. Basically still a QB coach, just has a new title.

[Charles Woodson]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Common misconception

for the record Favre had a Great int-pass ratio

[GBRulz]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

[Chevelle2]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.

[GBRulz]

Grasping at straws now...counting every turnover, because his INT's aren't enough?? :roll:

Whatever, you Favre haters will find a way to find the negativity in everything. Not even worth the debate with some.

[Charles Woodson]

Grasping at straws now...counting every turnover, because his INT's aren't enough?? :roll:

Whatever, you Favre haters will find a way to find the negativity in everything. Not even worth the debate with some.

Im with you on this, theres really no arguement on this, people fail to understand that for the amount of passes he threw, he had a very good ratio.
288 ints---8758 attempts =3.3%
while his TD's were better
442 TD----8758 attempts=5%

[GBRulz]

I know, CW...and I'm certainly not denying that Favre has thrown plenty of bone-headed passes in his career. He's also done some pretty amazing things as well.

[Bretsky]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.


442 TD
288 INT

Are you seriously working fumbles into this equation and using it as evidence of something ? If you are there is another reason not to take you serious. Wow

[Carolina_Packer]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

No, but Rodger Goodell did get involved and if he is going to encourage the Packers to act with some haste, I would expect that he encourages suiters to respond in a way that is fair to both sides. I think the NFL realizes this thing is ugly and they just want a quick, fair resolution that is fair for everyone and gets Brett into a team in time to make some money for the NFL. Ulitmately it's a money thing, but I would expect it to be fair as well. Maybe I'm naive but I have confidence in leadership here.

He can encourage Tampa all he wants, but they are the ones with the upper hand. Goodell and the packers want this shit resolved, and i bet Tampa doesn't want to give the asking price. There TC doesnt start for another week so they also have time

No. This is wrong. The Packers are not under any pressure to get anything done. The best thing that can happen is Favre delaying filing the reinstatement papers indefinitely. True, Tampa also may not be under any pressure--they probably could use Favre, but they could just as well play the season without him too.

ESPN says the Packers are asking for a first round pick. That's fine. I doubt anybody will be dumb enough to pay that much, but if they do, fine, take it.

Bottom line is the Packers can just pay Favre his salary and let him sit--f--- the commissioner and the media and anybody else that doesn't like it.

Asking for a 1st rounder is just a starting point. I'm sure it would be whittled down to perhaps a 2nd or multiple 3rd round picks, or a 2nd this year, perhaps a player, etc.

[Chevelle2]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.


442 TD
288 INT

Are you seriously working fumbles into this equation and using it as evidence of something ? If you are there is another reason not to take you serious. Wow

Why? When did fumbles stop counting?

[RashanGary]

Favre is getting older and he hasn't had any championship success in the last 10 years. I doubt it's coming this year. I'm at a point where I want to appreciate 11-15 years ago when he was an up and coming champion but move forward today.

Thanks for everything, Brett. The organization is moving forward though.

[texaspackerbacker]

Unless a deal is in place already, this news isn't exactly going to drive up the price for Tampa.

No, but Rodger Goodell did get involved and if he is going to encourage the Packers to act with some haste, I would expect that he encourages suiters to respond in a way that is fair to both sides. I think the NFL realizes this thing is ugly and they just want a quick, fair resolution that is fair for everyone and gets Brett into a team in time to make some money for the NFL. Ulitmately it's a money thing, but I would expect it to be fair as well. Maybe I'm naive but I have confidence in leadership here.

He can encourage Tampa all he wants, but they are the ones with the upper hand. Goodell and the packers want this shit resolved, and i bet Tampa doesn't want to give the asking price. There TC doesnt start for another week so they also have time

No. This is wrong. The Packers are not under any pressure to get anything done. The best thing that can happen is Favre delaying filing the reinstatement papers indefinitely. True, Tampa also may not be under any pressure--they probably could use Favre, but they could just as well play the season without him too.

ESPN says the Packers are asking for a first round pick. That's fine. I doubt anybody will be dumb enough to pay that much, but if they do, fine, take it.

Bottom line is the Packers can just pay Favre his salary and let him sit--f--- the commissioner and the media and anybody else that doesn't like it.

Asking for a 1st rounder is just a starting point. I'm sure it would be whittled down to perhaps a 2nd or multiple 3rd round picks, or a 2nd this year, perhaps a player, etc.

That assumes that the Packers WANT to make a trade. I don't believe they do. The price of a first round pick is deliberately too high. If we get it , fine. If not, no big deal. Just let Favre sit. The worst thing would be to let him play somewhere else without the Packers getting OVER-compensated.

[Bretsky]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.


442 TD
288 INT

Are you seriously working fumbles into this equation and using it as evidence of something ? If you are there is another reason not to take you serious. Wow

Why? When did fumbles stop counting?

Ah, and every one is on the QB.

Fair enough. That's really all the drivel I needed to confirm that you will manipulate the facts while ignoring the circumstances surrounding them. I'll keep my debate to those who are reasonable and you can push your Favre hate on others.

[Bretsky]

Favre is getting older and he hasn't had any championship success in the last 10 years. I doubt it's coming this year. I'm at a point where I want to appreciate 11-15 years ago when he was an up and coming champion but move forward today.

Thanks for everything, Brett. The organization is moving forward though.


IMO Ted would reflect those views perfectly. He won't be a Packer long IMO

[Chevelle2]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.


442 TD
288 INT

Are you seriously working fumbles into this equation and using it as evidence of something ? If you are there is another reason not to take you serious. Wow

Why? When did fumbles stop counting?

Ah, and every one is on the QB.

Fair enough. That's really all the drivel I needed to confirm that you will manipulate the facts while ignoring the circumstances surrounding them. I'll keep my debate to those who are reasonable and you can push your Favre hate on others.

How am I manipulating facts? I love him to death, hes top 3 ever, but IMO he just doesn't have it anymore. Am I not allowed to have my opinion?

Heres your breakdown for those playoff games, as you asked:

Super Bowl (Denver): 256 yards, 3 touchdowns, 2 TOs
San Francisco: 292 yards, 2 touchdowns, 2 Ints
San Francisco:269, 2 touchdowns, 1 Int
St. Louis: 281, 2 touchdowns, 6 Ints
Atlanta: 247, 1 touchdown, 2 Ints
Seattle: 319, 1 touchdown, 0 Ints
Philadelphia180 yards, 2 touchdowns, 1 Int
Minnesota216 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 Ints
Seattle172 yards, 3 touchdowns, 0 Ints
NY 236 yards, 2 touchdowns, 2 Ints

19 touchdowns, 20 TOs

[falco]

in Bart Starr's last 10 postseason games, he threw 3 interceptions and went 9-1......

[Bretsky]

If Favre has a photographic memory, how come he threw so many passes to the wrong color uniform?

Having receivers named Taco certainly doesn't help.

But one can also ask....how come he has thrown so many TD's throughout his career??

1.2 touchdowns for every 1.0 turnover.


442 TD
288 INT

Are you seriously working fumbles into this equation and using it as evidence of something ? If you are there is another reason not to take you serious. Wow

Why? When did fumbles stop counting?

Ah, and every one is on the QB.

Fair enough. That's really all the drivel I needed to confirm that you will manipulate the facts while ignoring the circumstances surrounding them. I'll keep my debate to those who are reasonable and you can push your Favre hate on others.

How am I manipulating facts? I love him to death, hes top 3 ever, but IMO he just doesn't have it anymore. Am I not allowed to have my opinion?

Heres your breakdown for those playoff games, as you asked:

Super Bowl (Denver): 256 yards, 3 touchdowns, 2 TOs
San Francisco: 292 yards, 2 touchdowns, 2 Ints
San Francisco:269, 2 touchdowns, 1 Int
St. Louis: 281, 2 touchdowns, 6 Ints
Atlanta: 247, 1 touchdown, 2 Ints
Seattle: 319, 1 touchdown, 0 Ints
Philadelphia180 yards, 2 touchdowns, 1 Int
Minnesota216 yards, 1 touchdown, 4 Ints
Seattle172 yards, 3 touchdowns, 0 Ints
NY 236 yards, 2 touchdowns, 2 Ints

19 touchdowns, 20 TOs


OK, that was my bad. If you look at your first post with the 1.2 to 1 ratio you did not note that was playoff stats only. So I thought you were using his regular season stats when coming up with that ratio. My apologies.

[Chevelle2]

The 1.2 to 1 TD/TO ratio, ARE his regular season stats.

I took the number of fumbles he had in the regular season, figured he recovered a generous half of them.

Bretsky, Im gonna gracefully step out - we are just going to have to disagree.

[falco]

im not going to open a giant Favre debate here, but I do want to say that I think he was a great QB and definitely top 10, possibly edging top 5. But I think his poor postseason play and sometimes erratic decision making has to be one of the biggest things keeping him out of the top 5

[sepporepi]

If you consider fumbles, you should also consider his rushing TDs:

Bei my count it is:


453= 442+13 TDs
397=288+83 TOs

So it is a 1,22 regular season TD/TO regular season ratio.

Playoffs:

(39+1)/(28+4)=1,25

So his playoff ratio is almost the same as his regular season ratio.

Compared to Elway regular season:

(300+33)/(226+102)=1,01

Compared to Marino regular season:

(420+9)/(252+67)=1,34

Moreover his ratio seems to be on par with what other greats have done.
I am too lazy to look up more.

[MJZiggy]

You're less lazy than the rest of us, who didn't look up that much...

[pbmax]

Career Passing Touchdown % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)


Rnk Player (age), + HOF TD% Year Done Teams
1 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 5.80% 2004 2007 pit
2 Peyton Manning (31) 5.70% 1998 2007 clt
3 Steve Young+ 5.60% 1985 1999 2TM
4 Tom Brady (30) 5.40% 2000 2007 nwe
5 Joe Montana+ 5.10% 1979 1994 2TM
Kurt Warner (36) 5.10% 1998 2007 3TM
Carson Palmer (28) 5.10% 2004 2007 cin
8 Dan Marino+ 5.00% 1983 1999 mia
Jim Kelly+ 5.00% 1986 1996 buf
Brett Favre (38) 5.00% 1991 2007 2TM
Jake Delhomme (32) 5.00% 1999 2007 2TM
12 Dave Krieg 4.90% 1980 1998 6TM
Daunte Culpepper (30) 4.90% 1999 2007 3TM
14 Randall Cunningham 4.80% 1985 2001 4TM
15 Boomer Esiason 4.70% 1984 1997 3TM
Donovan McNabb (31) 4.60% 1999 2007 phi
Philip Rivers (26) 4.60% 2004 2007 sdg
18 Matt Hasselbeck (32) 4.50% 1999 2007 2TM
Jeff Garcia (37) 4.50% 1999 2007 5TM
20 Steve Beuerlein 4.40% 1988 2003 6TM
Mark Rypien 4.40% 1988 2001 5TM
Trent Green (37) 4.40% 1997 2007 4TM
Brian Griese (32) 4.40% 1998 2007 4TM
Drew Brees (28) 4.40% 2001 2007 2TM
25 Phil Simms 4.30% 1979 1993 nyg
Bill Kenney .4.30% 1980 1988 kan
Neil Lomax 4.30% 1981 1988 crd
Jeff Kemp .4.30% 1981 1991 4TM
Warren Moon+ 4.30% 1984 2000 4TM
Bobby Hebert 4.30% 1985 1996 2TM
Frank Reich .4.30% 1985 1998 4TM
Rich Gannon .4.30% 1987 2004 4TM
Chris Miller 4.30% 1987 1999 3TM
Chad Pennington (31) 4.30% 2000 2007 nyj
Marc Bulger (30) 4.30% 2002 2007 ram
Eli Manning (26) 4.30% 2004 2007 nyg
37 Chris Chandler 4.20% 1988 2004 7TM
Aaron Brooks 4.20% 2000 2006 2TM
Marc Wilson 4.10% 1980 1990 2TM
Wade Wilson 4.10% 1981 1998 5TM
41 John Elway+ 4.10% 1983 1998 den
Jay Schroeder 4.10% 1985 1994 4TM
Jim Everett 4.10% 1986 1997 3TM
Vinny Testaverde (44) 4.10% 1987 2007 7TM
Jeff Blake 4.10% 1992 2005 7TM
Michael Vick 4.10% 2001 2006 atl
47 Doug Williams 4.00% 1978 1989 2TM
Jeff Hostetler 4.00% 1985 1997 3TM
Doug Flutie 4.00% 1986 2005 4TM
Erik Kramer 4.00% 1987 1999 4TM
Scott Mitchell 4.00% 1991 2001 4TM
Tommy Maddox 4.00% 1992 2005 4TM
Elvis Grbac 4.00% 1994 2001 3TM
Mark Brunell 4.00% 1994 2006 3TM
Jay Fiedler 4.00% 1995 2005 5TM
56 Steve DeBerg 3.90% 1978 1998 6TM
Jim McMahon 3.90% 1982 1996 6TM
Tony Eason 3.90% 1983 1990 2TM
Jeff George 3.90% 1990 2001 5TM
Brad Johnson (39) 3.90% 1994 2007 4TM
Charlie Batch (33) 3.90% 1998 2007 2TM
62 Mike Tomczak 3.80% 1985 1999 4TM
Craig Erickson 3.80% 1992 1997 3TM
Steve McNair (34) 3.80% 1995 2007 2TM
Patrick Ramsey (28) 3.80% 2002 2007 3TM
66 Gary Hogeboom 3.70% 1980 1989 3TM
David Woodley 3.70% 1980 1985 2TM
Bernie Kosar 3.70% 1985 1996 3TM
Bubby Brister 3.70% 1986 2000 5TM
Neil O'Donnell 3.70% 1991 2003 4TM
Drew Bledsoe 3.70% 1993 2006 3TM
Jake Plummer 3.70% 1997 2006 2TM
Jon Kitna (35) 3.70% 1997 2007 3TM
Tim Couch 3.70% 1999 2003 cle
Byron Leftwich (27) 3.70% 2003 2007 2TM
76 Mark Malone 3.60% 1980 1989 3TM
Eric Hipple 3.60% 1980 1989 det
Ken O'Brien 3.60% 1984 1993 2TM
Steve Bono 3.60% 1985 1999 7TM
Ty Detmer 3.60% 1993 2003 5TM
Gus Frerotte (36) 3.60% 1994 2007 7TM
Trent Dilfer (35) 3.60% 1994 2007 5TM
83 Dave Wilson 3.50% 1981 1988 nor
Don Majkowski 3.50% 1987 1996 3TM
Stan Humphries 3.50% 1989 1997 2TM
Troy Aikman+ 3.50% 1989 2000 dal
Billy Joe Tolliver 3.50% 1989 1999 5TM
88 Jim Miller 3.40% 1995 2002 2TM
Rex Grossman (27) 3.40% 2003 2007 chi
Kyle Boller (26) 3.40% 2003 2007 rav
91 Jim Harbaugh 3.30% 1987 2000 4TM
John Friesz 3.30% 1990 2000 4TM
Kerry Collins (35) 3.30% 1995 2007 5TM
Kordell Stewart 3.30% 1995 2005 3TM
Tony Banks 3.30% 1996 2005 4TM
Quincy Carter 3.30% 2001 2004 2TM
Josh McCown (28) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
98 Mike Pagel 3.20% 1982 1993 3TM
Rodney Peete 3.20% 1989 2004 6TM
Danny Kanell 3.20% 1996 2003 3TM
101 Joey Harrington (29) 3.10% 2002 2007 3TM
102 Steve Pelluer 3.00% 1984 1990 2TM
Steve Walsh 3.00% 1989 1999 6TM
104 Kent Graham 2.90% 1992 2001 4TM
105 Steve Dils 2.80% 1979 1988 3TM
Scott Brunner 2.80% 1980 1985 2TM
Randy Wright 2.80% 1984 1988 gnb
David Carr (28) 2.80% 2002 2007 2TM
109 Dave M. Brown 2.70% 1992 2001 2TM
110 Steve Fuller 2.60% 1979 1986 2TM
Jack Trudeau 2.60% 1986 1995 3TM
112 Hugh Millen 2.40% 1987 1995 4TM
Rick Mirer 2.40% 1993 2003 5TM


TD Pct Defined As Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass (Minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Passing Touchdowns/(Passess Attempted)

[pbmax]

Career Pass Interception % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)

Favre is at 45.


Rnk Player (age), + HOFer Int% Years Teams
1 Neil O'Donnell 2.10% 1991 2003 4TM
Donovan McNabb (31) 2.10% 1999 2007 phi
3 Mark Brunell 2.30% 1994 2006 3TM
Jeff Garcia (37) 2.30% 1999 2007 5TM
5 Tom Brady (30) 2.40% 2000 2007 nwe
6 Kent Graham 2.50% 1992 2001 4TM
Steve Bono 2.50% 1985 1999 7TM
Rich Gannon 2.50% 1987 2004 4TM
9 Joe Montana+ 2.60% 1979 1994 2TM
Steve Young+ 2.60% 1985 1999 2TM
Bernie Kosar 2.60% 1985 1996 3TM
Steve McNair (34) 2.60% 1995 2007 2TM
Philip Rivers (26) 2.60% 2004 2007 sdg
14 Matt Hasselbeck (32) 2.70% 1999 2007 2TM
Ken O'Brien 2.70% 1984 1993 2TM
Drew Brees (28) 2.70% 2001 2007 2TM
Byron Leftwich (27) 2.70% 2003 2007 2TM
18 Brad Johnson (39) 2.80% 1994 2007 4TM
Jeff George 2.80% 1990 2001 5TM
Peyton Manning (31) 2.80% 1998 2007 clt
21 Neil Lomax 2.90% 1981 1988 crd
Trent Green (37) 2.90% 1997 2007 4TM
Chad Pennington (31) 2.90% 2000 2007 nyj
24 Jim Miller 3.00% 1995 2002 2TM
Dan Marino+ 3.00% 1983 1999 mia
Jeff Hostetler 3.00% 1985 1997 3TM
Jim Harbaugh 3.00% 1987 2000 4TM
Troy Aikman+ 3.00% 1989 2000 dal
Charlie Batch (33) 3.00% 1998 2007 2TM
Michael Vick 3.00% 2001 2006 atl
Marc Bulger (30) 3.00% 2002 2007 ram
32 Jeff Blake 3.10% 1992 2005 7TM
John Elway+ 3.10% 1983 1998 den
Randall Cunningham 3.10% 1985 2001 4TM
John Friesz 3.10% 1990 2000 4TM
Drew Bledsoe 3.10% 1993 2006 3TM
Tony Banks 3.10% 1996 2005 4TM
Aaron Brooks 3.10% 2000 2006 2TM
Carson Palmer (28) 3.10% 2004 2007 cin
40 Doug Flutie 3.20% 1986 2005 4TM
Gus Frerotte (36) 3.20% 1994 2007 7TM
Jake Delhomme (32) 3.20% 1999 2007 2TM
Daunte Culpepper (30) 3.20% 1999 2007 3TM
David Carr (28) 3.20% 2002 2007 2TM
45 Tony Eason 3.30% 1983 1990 2TM
Steve Dils 3.30% 1979 1988 3TM
Stan Humphries 3.30% 1989 1997 2TM
Brett Favre (38) 3.30% 1991 2007 2TM
Elvis Grbac 3.30% 1994 2001 3TM
Kerry Collins (35) 3.30% 1995 2007 5TM
Patrick Ramsey (28) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
Joey Harrington (29) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
54 Kyle Boller (26) 3.40% 2003 2007 rav
Phil Simms 3.40% 1979 1993 nyg
Warren Moon+ 3.40% 1984 2000 4TM
Erik Kramer 3.40% 1987 1999 4TM
Steve Beuerlein 3.40% 1988 2003 6TM
Mark Rypien 3.40% 1988 2001 5TM
Kurt Warner (36) 3.40% 1998 2007 3TM
61 Scott Mitchell 3.50% 1991 2001 4TM
Bill Kenney 3.50% 1980 1988 kan
Jim McMahon 3.50% 1982 1996 6TM
Boomer Esiason 3.50% 1984 1997 3TM
Bubby Brister 3.50% 1986 2000 5TM
Don Majkowski 3.50% 1987 1996 3TM
Chris Miller 3.50% 1987 1999 3TM
Craig Erickson 3.50% 1992 1997 3TM
Dave M. Brown 3.50% 1992 2001 2TM
Brian Griese (32) 3.50% 1998 2007 4TM
Eli Manning (26) 3.50% 2004 2007 nyg
72 Jim Everett 3.60% 1986 1997 3TM
Chris Chandler 3.60% 1988 2004 7TM
Kordell Stewart 3.60% 1995 2005 3TM
Danny Kanell 3.60% 1996 2003 3TM
77 Jon Kitna (35) 3.70% 1997 2007 3TM
Doug Williams 3.70% 1978 1989 2TM
Dave Krieg 3.70% 1980 1998 6TM
Jim Kelly+ 3.70% 1986 1996 buf
Billy Joe Tolliver 3.70% 1989 1999 5TM
Ty Detmer 3.70% 1993 2003 5TM
Rick Mirer 3.70% 1993 2003 5TM
Jake Plummer 3.70% 1997 2006 2TM
Rex Grossman (27) 3.70% 2003 2007 chi
87 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 3.80% 2004 2007 pit
Steve Fuller 3.80% 1979 1986 2TM
Jay Schroeder 3.80% 1985 1994 4TM
Hugh Millen 3.80% 1987 1995 4TM
Steve Walsh 3.80% 1989 1999 6TM
Jay Fiedler 3.80% 1995 2005 5TM
Josh McCown (28) 3.80% 2002 2007 3TM
95 Quincy Carter 3.90% 2001 2004 2TM
Frank Reich 3.90% 1985 1998 4TM
Rodney Peete 3.90% 1989 2004 6TM
Tim Couch 3.90% 1999 2003 cle
Steve Pelluer 4.00% 1984 1990 2TM
Bobby Hebert 4.00% 1985 1996 2TM
Vinny Testaverde (44) 4.00% 1987 2007 7TM
106 Steve DeBerg 4.10% 1978 1998 6TM
Trent Dilfer (35) 4.10% 1994 2007 5TM
Wade Wilson 4.20% 1981 1998 5TM
Mike Pagel 4.20% 1982 1993 3TM
Jack Trudeau 4.20% 1986 1995 3TM
116 Jeff Kemp 4.40% 1981 1991 4TM
Eric Hipple 4.50% 1980 1989 det
Gary Hogeboom 4.50% 1980 1989 3TM
Mike Tomczak 4.50% 1985 1999 4TM
Tommy Maddox 4.50% 1992 2005 4TM
David Woodley 4.80% 1980 1985 2TM
Marc Wilson 4.90% 1980 1990 2TM
Mark Malone 4.90% 1980 1989 3TM
142 Randy Wright 5.10% 1984 1988 gnb
145 Scott Brunner 5.20% 1980 1985 2TM
Dave Wilson 5.30% 1981 1988 nor

Int % defined as: Percentage of times intercepted when attempting to pass (minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Interceptions/(Passes Attempted)

[HarveyWallbangers]

The 1.2 to 1 TD/TO ratio, ARE his regular season stats.

I took the number of fumbles he had in the regular season, figured he recovered a generous half of them.

Well, it's not so generous--since the team actually recovered 57% of his fumbles.

TDs = 442 + 13 = 455
TOs = 288 + 64 = 352

TD/TO ratio = 1.3

That number actually compares favorably to other top QBs who have retired recently. It's better than Elway, Kelly, Aikman, etc. It's just below Marino. Of course, Marino was a statue in the pocket (and these stats don't measure that). Steve Young did much better than anybody else. Of course, Young only had 7 good years (mostly through no fault of his own), and he got injured in 2 or 3 of those seasons.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If you consider fumbles, you should also consider his rushing TDs:

Bei my count it is:


453= 442+13 TDs
397=288+83 TOs

So it is a 1,22 regular season TD/TO regular season ratio.

True, and I made a similar assessment. According to NFL.com though, Favre lost 64 fumbles--not 83. Not sure what number is correct.

[Merlin]

Favre haters tend to overlook the comparisons between Favre and other great QB's. It is true that the negative things in life usually stick a little harder then the positive. Last years INT in the Giants game still sticks in my mind but not as a negative, as a lesson learned. The analysis of that int by the media, pundits, and haters has been pathetic. It doesn't matter who else was open, he threw behind a receiver that was open on the out, he threw in, big friggin deal. If it wasn't for Tynes missing not one but two makable field goals, then Favre would never have had the opportunity to even throw the int. Tynes did the impossible and hit a 47 yard field goal after missing from 42 and 36 yards previously. Our defense did not play well, our offense did not play well and special teams did not play well. From the reality of a total team letdown to it all being on Favre's int, I just don't understand how anyone can blame it all on Favre.

The Packers were lucky to have the opportunity to win the game despite a poor performance from a young team, which should not happen again this season. It reminds me a lot of the years before we went to the super bowl, the team had to gel, there were a lot of new faces, only in that case, they weren't all rookies and 2nd year players. This time around, if Favre indeed is at the helm (meaning he files for reinstatement and shows up), I suspect different results from the TEAM and fully expect Favre not to have to be in the position to win the game himself as was the case against the Giants in the NFC championship in over time.

[DonHutson]

Career Pass Interception % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)


That's an interesting list of stats. The large number of mediocre QB's up near the top suggest that maybe that stat isn't as good a predictor of success as one might expect it to be.

[pbmax]

Favre's TD rate is beyond reproach. Especially since four of the people ahead of him are young QBs who have not declined. Its also possible that they have benefited from other rules changes like the point of emphasis on the five yard chuck after the Patriots-Colts game in 2003. Montana and Young's numbers are just stupid, as they did not have the benefit of newer rules changes. Its an open question how much that was Rice and other pro bowl talent at RB, TE and the second WR.

His INT rate is mediocre. His is at 45th on a list of 145. Not as terrible as the shorthand people use to describe him as the all time INT leader. They are just looking at a counting stat, seeing a big number and leaping to conclusions.

But it is mediocre considering his offense and his coaches. Personally, I blame Sherman Lewis for declaring in training camp during the Ray Rhodes year that they were going to throw deep more often. Between that and the thumb injury, it was an ugly pass offense until M2 found his O Line and Ahman Green.

Fumbles are tough as they don't don't tell you who recovered it. Although statistical studies have shown that recovering fumbles is very random, that is, teams aren't good at it from year to year, that its not predictive. However, total fumbles are predictive, so Favre's fumbles do give some indication of the offense coming up short with him at the helm.

[pbmax]

Possibly, esp since that is just a measure of success at scoring points (which is great) but tells us nothing about the rest of the game.

But I think the cream rises to the top here as well. 7 of top 11 have won a SUperBowl and three others have made it to the Super Bowl. And Carson Palmer is very young.



Career Pass Interception % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)


That's an interesting list of stats. The large number of mediocre QB's up near the top suggest that maybe that stat isn't as good a predictor of success as one might expect it to be.

[RashanGary]

Teh problem with Brett is that he chokes away big games. He's had 17 years, won one with the #1 defense and ST's and hasn't won a championship since.

The odds of Brett winning a SB are very slim. 1 in 17 is piss poor and he's older and warn down mentally, if not physically at this point in his carer. Why is this year going to be any different. Why do people think Brett gives us this great chance at the SB. Are they ignoring his entire career and just going with their emotions? Hell, his entire career is 1 in 17 but is last ten years is 0 in 10. Either sucks, but the latter is probably more indicative of what we should expect.


There is very little risk of moving forward. Favre just solidified it by being a big diva. Who cares, it's time. He's not in Joe Montantas class becasue Montana won championships. Bottom line.

Favre played for a long time. He was very durable. His numbers are big becasue he played so long (TD's and INT's) not to mention the pass happy era he played in. Favre's legacy is his durablity and attitude. He should not be compared to the big game winners or put in that conversation. Those guys are a class above and were all great teammates who worked hard with their guys in the off season as well as the season.

[pbmax]

Merlin, very few (under 10) people on this board are Favre haters. I am not even sure the number is that high.

But commentary on him falls into two categories:

1) Look at all the INTs and his recent playoff failures OR

2) He's the love child of Joe Montana, John Unitas and Brad Pitt.

So its easy to come to the board focused on one or the other, either to debunk it or celebrate it. But if you took a poll, Favre would be in everyone's top 10. We are arguing over a very small gray area.

He has tremendous qualities and a few drawbacks. Overall, the good far exceeds the bad. But media coverage of him, save mostly the beat writers in my opinion, just stinks out loud.

When it comes to retirement, the argument breaks down as Bretsky has said. If you want a Super Bowl push this year, people tend to want Favre. If you are thinking 2 or 3 years down the road, then starting the process of finding his replacement leads you to Rodgers.

Personally, I think Favre has enough holes in his game now that this team, with its schedule is not going to the Super Bowl. CBs are older, I think Al Harris might play with an AARP patch on his jersey, the D Line will put less pressure on the QB and are opponents are more likely to be tougher.

So I vote Rodgers, then Brohm, then Flynn or whoever else it takes to find a replacement. But not because I hate Favre.


Favre haters tend to overlook the comparisons between Favre and other great QB's.

[Chevelle2]

Merlin, very few (under 10) people on this board are Favre haters. I am not even sure the number is that high.

But commentary on him falls into two categories:

1) Look at all the INTs and his recent playoff failures OR

2) He's the love child of Joe Montana, John Unitas and Brad Pitt.

So its easy to come to the board focused on one or the other, either to debunk it or celebrate it. But if you took a poll, Favre would be in everyone's top 10. We are arguing over a very small gray area.

He has tremendous qualities and a few drawbacks. Overall, the good far exceeds the bad. But media coverage of him, save mostly the beat writers in my opinion, just stinks out loud.

When it comes to retirement, the argument breaks down as Bretsky has said. If you want a Super Bowl push this year, people tend to want Favre. If you are thinking 2 or 3 years down the road, then starting the process of finding his replacement leads you to Rodgers.

Personally, I think Favre has enough holes in his game now that this team, with its schedule is not going to the Super Bowl. CBs are older, I think Al Harris might play with an AARP patch on his jersey, the D Line will put less pressure on the QB and are opponents are more likely to be tougher.

So I vote Rodgers, then Brohm, then Flynn or whoever else it takes to find a replacement. But not because I hate Favre.


Favre haters tend to overlook the comparisons between Favre and other great QB's.

Agree 100%. Fabulous post. Read this Bretsky.

[Bretsky]

Merlin, very few (under 10) people on this board are Favre haters. I am not even sure the number is that high.

But commentary on him falls into two categories:

1) Look at all the INTs and his recent playoff failures OR

2) He's the love child of Joe Montana, John Unitas and Brad Pitt.

So its easy to come to the board focused on one or the other, either to debunk it or celebrate it. But if you took a poll, Favre would be in everyone's top 10. We are arguing over a very small gray area.

He has tremendous qualities and a few drawbacks. Overall, the good far exceeds the bad. But media coverage of him, save mostly the beat writers in my opinion, just stinks out loud.

When it comes to retirement, the argument breaks down as Bretsky has said. If you want a Super Bowl push this year, people tend to want Favre. If you are thinking 2 or 3 years down the road, then starting the process of finding his replacement leads you to Rodgers.

Personally, I think Favre has enough holes in his game now that this team, with its schedule is not going to the Super Bowl. CBs are older, I think Al Harris might play with an AARP patch on his jersey, the D Line will put less pressure on the QB and are opponents are more likely to be tougher.

So I vote Rodgers, then Brohm, then Flynn or whoever else it takes to find a replacement. But not because I hate Favre.


Favre haters tend to overlook the comparisons between Favre and other great QB's.

Agree 100%. Fabulous post. Read this Bretsky.


Actually the tone of pbmax's post was outstanding