Fatties banned

[Harlan Huckleby]

California Is First State to Ban Trans Fats
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
Published: July 26, 2008
LOS ANGELES — California, a national trendsetter in all matters edible, became the first state to ban trans fats in restaurants when Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill Friday to phase out their use over the next few years.

Under the new law, the fats must be excised from restaurant products beginning in 2010, and from all retail baked goods by 2011. Packaged manufactured foods will be exempt.

New York City passed a regulation banning the fats in 2006, which became fully effective on July 1, and Philadelphia, Stamford, Conn., and Montgomery County, Md., have passed similar laws.

But placing a mandatory ban on the roughly 88,000 restaurants, bakeries and other food purveyors in the nation’s most populous state provides a major legislative boost for the movement against trans-fats. The effort has been led by scientists, doctors and consumer advocates who trace the largely-synthetic fat to a host of health woes, principally heart disease.

In recent years trans-fats have become almost the new cigarettes among public health policy makers, with consumer behavior as much in the crosshairs as the product itself in governments’ attempt to curb harmful effects.

“I think the potential here is real for a far greater understanding of the harms of trans-fats,” said Dr. Clyde Yancy, the incoming president of the American Heart Association. “And to encourage more states to do the same.”

Trans fats are created by pumping hydrogen into liquid oil at high temperature, a process called partial hydrogenation. The process results in an inexpensive fat that prolongs the shelf-life and appearance of packaged foods, but it has repeatedly been found in scientific studies to increase bad cholesterol, which can lead to diabetes and heart disease, California’s leading cause of death.

Dr. Yancy said that a 2 percent increase in trans-fat intake can result in a 25 percent increase in the likelihood of developing coronary artery disease. “These are data we are just now beginning to understand,” he said. “It is pretty clear now that it was a mistake for us to embrace these fats.”

Under the new law, restaurants, bakeries, delicatessens, cafeterias and other businesses classified as “food facilities” will have to discontinue use of oils, margarine and shortening containing trans fats in preparing all foods.

These purveyors will have to keep the labels on their cooking products so that they can be inspected for trans fat, a process that will become part of the duties of local health inspectors. Violators will face fines beginning at $25, and increasing as high as $1,000 for multiple violations.

The bill was written by Democratic Assemblyman Tony Mendoza, a former 4th grade teacher from southern California who said he was inspired by the number of obese children he saw in school.

“They are heavy,” Mr. Mendoza said. “They eat out a lot and you realize there are trans fats out there — you don’t want kids to start off on the wrong foot.”

Opposition to the move came largely from the state’s restaurant association, which argued that singling out trans fats as a singularly harmful food product was arbitrary, and that a mandate would be expensive to implement. Further, the California Restaurant Association asserted that such a ban for health reasons was the purview of the federal government, not the states.

“We don’t doubt the health findings surrounding trans-fats,” said Lara Dunbar, the senior vice president of government affairs for the association. “Our opposition was philosophical. Banning one product isn’t necessarily the right solution.” Further, Ms. Dunbar said, many of the state’s restaurants have eliminated trans-fats already. “We don’t think you need a mandate,” she said. “Restaurants responded to a consumer demand.”

Among national chains, Wendy’s, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, the Cheesecake Factory and McDonalds have all begun to move away from trans fats because of consumer concerns.

In many high-end restaurants in this state — where the organic foods movement began and where many a food trend has been born — chefs would no more use trans-fats in their cooking than use paper tablecloths in their dining rooms.

For some restaurateurs, however, the change has been costly, they say, because there are fewer distributors of the alternative oils.

“The only effect it is going to have on the consumer is that we are going to have to raise our prices,” said Tina Pantazis, the manager of Dino’s Burgers, which operators two hamburger joints, one in Los Angeles and other in Azusa. Ms. Pantazis said that the restaurant’s french fries, which now cost $1.75 per order, will likely be bumped up to at least $2.75.

The Los Angeles branch of Dino’s has already moved to use the new oils, she said, adding that there were no customer complaints even though she could taste the difference. The Azusa location will move to be compliant soon.

“I think this is good for the health of the consumer,” Ms. Pantazis said. “On the other hand, people who eat french fries are not concerned with their health that much.”

New York’s anti-trans-fat movement, led by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, is still in its early days. The first phase began last year, targeting fry oils and spreads. This month, it extended to baked goods. In that time, nearly all the 25,000 restaurants that have been inspected have proved compliant, according to city’s health department. New York also offered a “Trans Fat Help Center” where bakers were schooled in the workability of alternative fats.

California, which supplies a great deal of the nation’s specialty crops and other goods, already has some of the toughest food restrictions in the nation, including a ban on junk food, and on trans-fats in school meals.

On Friday, Governor Schwarzenegger, whose consumer interests often align closely with those of Democrats, praised the new law after signing it.

“California is a leader in promoting health and nutrition, and I am pleased to continue that tradition by being the first state in the nation to phase out trans fats,” he said in a statement. “Consuming trans fat is linked to coronary heart disease, and today we are taking a strong step toward creating a healthier future for California.”

[Harlan Huckleby]

I am totally down with this. Trans fats are so unhealthy, and tough for consumers to avoid. And they aren't necessary.

I really like Arnold, I would vote for him for president if he wasn't an Australian.

[Joemailman]

I am totally down with this. Trans fats are so unhealthy, and tough for consumers to avoid. And they aren't necessary.

I'm inclined to agree. When Lays switched from Trans fats I could tell the difference, but it doesn't matter anymore. I still eat 'em.

[Kiwon]

HH, I am personally offended that you referred to overweight transgendered persons as "trans fat."

You don't condemn use of the "N" word and then whisper it under your breath like Jesse did, do you?

[retailguy]

=I really like Arnold, I would vote for him for president if he wasn't an Australian.

Then you can vote for him, because he's AUSTRIAN.... Right Tarlam!? :P

[texaspackerbacker]

The God damned nutrition Nazis and compassion Fascists strike again. More government interfering in our lives.

Oh well, if the taste is a little less good, I'll just load things up with a little more salt.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The God damned nutrition Nazis and compassion Fascists strike again. More government interfering in our lives.

Oh well, if the taste is a little less good, I'll just load things up with a little more salt.

Ya, I figured there'd be some libertarian complaints. I see this as different from banning ice cream sundaes or chocolate-covered coffee beans. Trans Fats are snuck into so many products, the consumer really doesn't know just how nasty that twinky is.

Trans Fats are the super stars of bad foods. They increase bad cholesterol and reduce good cholesterol. They're pretty close to poison. We do have an FDA to protect the public.

[Harlan Huckleby]

HH, I am personally offended that you referred to overweight transgendered persons as "trans fat."

no, trans fatties are happy to use that expression, just like the word "queer" and "nigger" can be used by their communities to take ownership of the word.

[Kiwon]

HH, I am personally offended that you referred to overweight transgendered persons as "trans fat."

no, trans fatties are happy to use that expression, just like the word "queer" and "nigger" can be used by their communities to take ownership of the word.

Oh, I stand corrected.

Actually, as a perspective member of the Obama nation (pronounced "abomination"), I expect a push to get society to avoid such labels as male/female, fat/skinny, etc., and I was practicing feigned outrage at anything close to anti-PC language.

By the way, which forbidden words can WASPs take ownership of?

[SkinBasket]

Trans Fats are the super stars of bad foods. They increase bad cholesterol and reduce good cholesterol. They're pretty close to poison. We do have an FDA to protect the public.

How about some mandatory exercise instead of punishing businesses for all the fatties too busy to notice what they're eating? Oh that's right, that would infringe on their personal rights. Better to modify their behavior in a passive aggressive manner and make them pay for it with their wallet.

[MJZiggy]

I don't understand the offense here, people. It's not like your grandma was cooking with transfats to make your birthday cake taste good when you were little. They're caused by chemical additives in your food and they are horrible for you. Didn't you notice that as soon as they noticed how wretched the things were and started making companies put them on the nutrition labels that all the foodmakers started touting their removal? That's even without banning them, but the restaurants were still able to use them without telling you about it. I don't see a problem with making my restaurant use real food without chemical additives like the MSG that I'm overly sensitive to. Can't you just make the food with flavor from the get-go?

[Iron Mike]

By the way, which forbidden words can WASPs take ownership of?

Porch Monkey.
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1143/porchmonkeylr5.jpg


Kidding. Ofay.

[SkinBasket]

I don't see a problem with making my restaurant use real food without chemical additives like the MSG that I'm overly sensitive to. Can't you just make the food with flavor from the get-go?

If you're willing to pay a much higher price for it. Personally I don't like paying twice as much for anything that needs to be cooked in oil because some other people have trouble not stuffing their fat faces with it until they're just about dead from being too fat and then blaming the food instead of their own lack of self respect and will power.

What it comes down to is that I like cheap, tasty food. I hate fatties who blame everyone else for them being fat. If it's a real concern for you, then you educate yourself in the smallest degree and you can easily avoid most food that uses transfat or MSG. You don't expect the government to protect you from yourself and hurt an industry (small business restaurants) that already has a high failure rate.

[texaspackerbacker]

The God damned nutrition Nazis and compassion Fascists strike again. More government interfering in our lives.

Oh well, if the taste is a little less good, I'll just load things up with a little more salt.

Ya, I figured there'd be some libertarian complaints. I see this as different from banning ice cream sundaes or chocolate-covered coffee beans. Trans Fats are snuck into so many products, the consumer really doesn't know just how nasty that twinky is.

Trans Fats are the super stars of bad foods. They increase bad cholesterol and reduce good cholesterol. They're pretty close to poison. We do have an FDA to protect the public.

Then why do they put them in? Do you think it could be because it makes things taste better? You don't really think it is purely an anti-health conspiracy, do you?

It's all a matter of supply and demand. People apparently like to eat the stuff with trans fats in--just like driving without seat belts or cycling without helmets. And you want the God damned government to stick its nose in and REGULATE us? No thanks.

I think the true libertarians--Howard and BHead--will get a kick out of you calling me one.

Oh yeah, and as a Twinkie lover, I can tell you, the great majority of us don't give a damn about any nasty stuff in them--just how good they taste.

[MJZiggy]

Transfats were not put into food to make them taste better. They were put in so that they could produce the food cheaper without losing flavor, considerations of your health be damned. Skin, have you not noticed that the foods which are suddenly trans fat free do not automatically double in price? Margarine comes to mind as the first obvious example. As soon as they said not to use it because it was full of trans fat, it suddenly became trans fat free and at the same price it was before.

[SkinBasket]

Transfats were not put into food to make them taste better.



They were put in so that they could produce the food cheaper without losing flavor

As far as costs go, you're talking about global companies replacing an ingredient in a staple item that can use the whole media and politician created phobia of trans fat to their advantage. I'm talking about the kind of people mentioned in the article. Restaurant owners mainly.

There's lots of shit out there that isn't good for you if you ingest too much of it. Maybe we should stop selling tylenol OTC just to be safe that everyone is safe from themselves. Or we could ask that people be accountable to themselves.

[MJZiggy]

Transfats were not put into food to make them taste better.



They were put in so that they could produce the food cheaper without losing flavor

As far as costs go, you're talking about global companies replacing an ingredient in a staple item that can use the whole media and politician created phobia of trans fat to their advantage. I'm talking about the kind of people mentioned in the article. Restaurant owners mainly.

There's lots of shit out there that isn't good for you if you ingest too much of it. Maybe we should stop selling tylenol OTC just to be safe that everyone is safe from themselves. Or we could ask that people be accountable to themselves.

There are tons of foods out there that aren't good for you if you ingest too much. The problem with trans fat is that you don't have to ingest much of it for it to do damage. They don't just put it in junk food, it was everywhere, anything that was baked or cooked in oil. So what is your basic coronary disease patient supposed to butter their bread with if they can't have the cholesterol in butter and didn't even know that the trans fats in margarine were worse? How's he supposed to go out and eat when he doesn't know if the restaurant is filling his plate with stuff he's not allowed to have in order to save a quick buck? Restaurants cooked without hydrogenated oils for eons and did fine. They will do fine now--and your food will taste just fine. Trust me, they will go back to the old Twinkie recipe and you'll be able to kill yourself just as effectively with them. But leave the food that's not Twinkies out of that equation.

And it's not a media and political started concern. The concern started with the medical field if I recall.

[GBRulz]

I don't understand the offense here, people. It's not like your grandma was cooking with transfats to make your birthday cake taste good when you were little. They're caused by chemical additives in your food and they are horrible for you. Didn't you notice that as soon as they noticed how wretched the things were and started making companies put them on the nutrition labels that all the foodmakers started touting their removal? That's even without banning them, but the restaurants were still able to use them without telling you about it. I don't see a problem with making my restaurant use real food without chemical additives like the MSG that I'm overly sensitive to. Can't you just make the food with flavor from the get-go?

That reminds me of a topic they were discussing on the ManCow show about a month or so ago. It was a farm family who always gave their kids whole milk, butter, beef, etc...basically everything they raised themselves on the farm. The kids were healthy, not overweight, etc.

Then the kids went off to school and once they started eating the school food, skim milk, low fat this and that, they started gaining considerable weight.

So, I agree with your post about MSG's and additives added to preserve food as a huge reason for obesity in children. I guess one can even go so far as to really wonder if it's some kind of government conspiracy. Because once you get sick or whatever, there is some kind of pill out there from those prescription drug companies that can be prescribed to you in an instant.

[MJZiggy]

I agree with you about the nutrition part (ok, maybe not the govt. conspiracy) but the flip side is to remember that on the farm, the kids probably had active chores in tending to their future dinners.

That said, I still prefer my food to be less "screwed around with." Had they just stuck to soybean oil without screwing with it, we wouldn't even be talking about this. (then again eventually they'd have figured out that soy is a natural estrogen...)

[GBRulz]

Yeah I know the gov't conspiracy thing is a little off, although it does make you go hmm....

One of my friends lost SO much weight by simply switching to 100% all natural foods. If she eats meat, it's all organic.

I know alot of the reason why kids are overweight is due to lack of activity, but I strongly believe that thing things that are added to food has alot to do with it as well.

I grew up drinking soda, eating junk food, etc and didn't put on weight until my late 20's. I was considerably less active...that makes a huge difference, I agree.

[bobblehead]

If gov't is going to pay for healthcare obviously they have a right to control what you eat. I mean, should my tax dollars go to pay for someone who doesn't take care of their body? I personally think that with national healthcare we should also have a fat tax....If your BMI is too high you have to pay so much per point. It is the logical conclusion.

[bobblehead]

I don't understand the offense here, people. It's not like your grandma was cooking with transfats to make your birthday cake taste good when you were little. They're caused by chemical additives in your food and they are horrible for you. Didn't you notice that as soon as they noticed how wretched the things were and started making companies put them on the nutrition labels that all the foodmakers started touting their removal? That's even without banning them, but the restaurants were still able to use them without telling you about it. I don't see a problem with making my restaurant use real food without chemical additives like the MSG that I'm overly sensitive to. Can't you just make the food with flavor from the get-go?

That reminds me of a topic they were discussing on the ManCow show about a month or so ago. It was a farm family who always gave their kids whole milk, butter, beef, etc...basically everything they raised themselves on the farm. The kids were healthy, not overweight, etc.

Then the kids went off to school and once they started eating the school food, skim milk, low fat this and that, they started gaining considerable weight.

So, I agree with your post about MSG's and additives added to preserve food as a huge reason for obesity in children. I guess one can even go so far as to really wonder if it's some kind of government conspiracy. Because once you get sick or whatever, there is some kind of pill out there from those prescription drug companies that can be prescribed to you in an instant.

This was my point way back in the vitamin thread. Eat whole natural foods as nature made them and you will be fine. I'm not even a big organic freak, but it doesn't hurt with soft skinned items or loose leaf items...things like bananas and oranges though....pointless.

[MJZiggy]

Actually, I've always thought that the obese and morbidly obese should pay more for health coverage.

[bobblehead]

Actually, I've always thought that the obese and morbidly obese should pay more for health coverage.

they do in the open market, try being a 5' 10" 300 pounder and buying a private plan....not gonna happen.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Here is a funny, little story for you regarding fat and insurance/coverage.

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

Anyway, provided in coverage for most plans is gastric bypass..you know, the surgery to help you lose weight. And, it was available to BCBS employees as well.

But, so many had it..and so many regained the weight that BCBS had to cut that from their own coverage.

Irony at it's finest.

[texaspackerbacker]

Transfats were not put into food to make them taste better. They were put in so that they could produce the food cheaper without losing flavor, considerations of your health be damned. Skin, have you not noticed that the foods which are suddenly trans fat free do not automatically double in price? Margarine comes to mind as the first obvious example. As soon as they said not to use it because it was full of trans fat, it suddenly became trans fat free and at the same price it was before.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing? Retain the flavor without raising the cost? That sounds like a good idea to me.

It's like MSG, which the damned whiners and regulators have been complaining about too--it makes stuff last longer without going bad--at a reasonable price--so the troublemakers (notice I abstained from saying "leftist anti-American" troublemakers--want to ban it.

The price thing is NOT necessarily true either. My favorite Lay's potato chips went way up when they complied with the anti-trans-fat idiocy.

I'm not going to make a judgment whether it is merely do-gooder fools or whether it is people actually TRYING to make life less pleasant for good normal Americans, but the effect is the same.

[MJZiggy]

Actually, I did have that wrong. The purpose of adding hydrogen to the oils was to give the product a longer shelf life. Doesn't actually affect flavor.

My problem with MSG is that they add it to food without telling you and I have a definite reaction to it.

And you'll pay for having them in there with increased healthcare payouts for uninsured and elderly because no one announces that they have them on the menu--and how long do we really need your restaurant food to keep anyway?



Trans fats occur naturally in small amounts in meat and dairy products. Most trans fats are created when vegetable oil is treated with hydrogen to create baked and fried goods with a longer shelf life.

Stephen Joseph, a Tiburon attorney who was a consultant to New York City in developing its ban, said trans fat is a larger health risk than saturated fat because it reduces so-called good cholesterol.

A 2006 review of trans fat studies by the New England Journal of Medicine concluded there was a strong connection between consumption of trans fats and heart disease. Studies also have linked trans fats to diabetes, obesity, infertility in women and some types of cancer.

Trans fats are like cigarettes, with no safe level of consumption, said Jeffrey Luther, a Long Beach doctor who is president of the California Academy of Family Physicians.

http://wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1447165

[Harlan Huckleby]

trans fats really are horrible medically, they're beyond the pale.

Pastry chefs love trans fats because they keep a nice texture in thier baked goods, especially something like a scone or croissant, for 3 or 4 days.

umm, as far as personal choice, the problem is that's its just too hard to know whether that muffin at the airport deli has transfats or not.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

trans fats really are horrible medically, they're beyond the pale.

Pastry chefs love trans fats because they keep a nice texture in thier baked goods, especially something like a scone or croissant, for 3 or 4 days.

umm, as far as personal choice, the problem is that's its just too hard to know whether that muffin at the airport deli has transfats or not.

No self respecting pasty chef would sell a scone or croissant that is 3 or 4 days old.

Bakers and huge corps like them. Your corner patisserie ain't using trans fats. :oops:

[MJZiggy]

Well mine isn't. They're banned here.

[Harlan Huckleby]

trans fats really are horrible medically, they're beyond the pale.

Pastry chefs love trans fats because they keep a nice texture in thier baked goods, especially something like a scone or croissant, for 3 or 4 days.

umm, as far as personal choice, the problem is that's its just too hard to know whether that muffin at the airport deli has transfats or not.

No self respecting pasty chef would sell a scone or croissant that is 3 or 4 days old.

Bakers and huge corps like them. Your corner patisserie ain't using trans fats. :oops:

nah, they love trans fats. Without trans fats, the pastry starts changing texture in half a day, starts getting oily, mushy. Your corner patisserie is most definitely using trans fats if they can get away with it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

trans fats really are horrible medically, they're beyond the pale.

Pastry chefs love trans fats because they keep a nice texture in thier baked goods, especially something like a scone or croissant, for 3 or 4 days.

umm, as far as personal choice, the problem is that's its just too hard to know whether that muffin at the airport deli has transfats or not.

No self respecting pasty chef would sell a scone or croissant that is 3 or 4 days old.

Bakers and huge corps like them. Your corner patisserie ain't using trans fats. :oops:

nah, they love trans fats. Without trans fats, the pastry starts changing texture in half a day, starts getting oily, mushy. Your corner patisserie is most definitely using trans fats if they can get away with it.

BS. Bakeries, etc. have a hard time selling day old..they aren't keeping stuff 3 or 4 days. The whole point is to have it made fresh.

What they love is that they've been using recipes in it...but, they can do the same with other ingredients...shit, crisco isn't even made with crisco anymore.

trans are used for making crusts flaky, muffins moist, crackers crispy, etc.

The point, is that pastry chefs aren't using it...bakeries yes...pastry chefs no. No french trained pastry chef is using veggie oils over butter.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The point, is that pastry chefs aren't using it...bakeries yes...pastry chefs no. No french trained pastry chef is using veggie oils over butter.

You might be right, I'm not 100% positive. I am relying on some interviews with pastry chefs in fancy restaraunts. That might be different from what happens in a shop.

But then again, maybe you are full of shit. I have to check this out.

[SkinBasket]

Go eat an asparagus you commies.

[BallHawk]

On the topic of fatties.....


“National survey data show that the prevalence of overweight and obese adults in the U.S. has increased steadily over the past three decades,” said Youfa Wang, MD, PhD, lead author of the study and a professor at Hopkins' Center for Human Nutrition. “If these trends continue, more than 86 percent of adults will be overweight or obese by 2030."

[Harlan Huckleby]

. “If these trends continue, more than 86 percent of adults will be overweight or obese by 2030."

I think people will become more aware and reactive to childhood obesity, and there will be better technologies for fighting obesity before anything like that happens.

On the subject of fatties, Skinbasket ( a skinny, chain-smoking twit) opined that fatties are people lacking self respect. This got my blood boiling.

Fat people, or a lot of them, are simply hard-wired in their brains to eat more. It is an addiction that has been re-enforced over many years, maybe a whole lifetime.

Being fat is not a sign of weak character. For instance, famous fatty Winston Churchill had self-discipline of super-human proportions (details upon request).

I'm going to cut this lecture short, sorry to disappoint, but I grow weary. Let me just type a quote from William S. Borroughs, a writer who was addicted to heroin for much of his life, he was talking about how he stays off the junk:

"I don't have to use any willpower. Dr. Dent always said there is no such thing as willpower. You've got to reach a state of mind in which you don't want it or need it."

[SkinBasket]

On the subject of fatties, Skinbasket ( a skinny, chain-smoking twit) opined that fatties are people lacking self respect. This got my blood boiling.

Fat people, or a lot of them, are simply hard-wired in their brains to eat more. It is an addiction that has been re-enforced over many years, maybe a whole lifetime.

So they're also hard wired to eat food that makes them fat? Why aren't these "hard wired" people eating more vegetables, fruits, and tofu than your average person? Is part of this "addiction" an inability to exercise?

You'll also note that I didn't say all fat people lack self respect. Just those who want to blame someone else for them stuffing their fat fucking faces full of fat until they're on the brink of death. I'm sure other fat people also lack self respect, but I was addressing those mentioned above in particular.

I hope you feel better for exhausting your daily supply of righteous outrage, however misguided it may have been.

[Zool]

Plus, some people are genetically predispositioned to be alcoholics. Do you excuse them for killing themselves with liquor because they lack the will-power to avoid it?

I'm allergic to cats, you dont see me going out and buying a cat, yet I see tons and tons of people with cats. It seems completely acceptable to own a cat, yet I dont have one.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Plus, some people are genetically predispositioned to be alcoholics. Do you excuse them for killing themselves with liquor because they lack the will-power to avoid it?

I don't think of it as excusing them. People are still responsibile for their destructive behavior. But I guess you could say I "excuse them" in the sense that I don't condemn them or look down on them.

And I really take issue with your "lack of will-power" comment. It is not will-power that gets people out of addictions. I have some experience with addiction. And I don't have the exact answer of how a person succeeds at overcoming addiction, but I know that the addiction will always, always trump will power alone.

Check out my quote from William S. Burroughs, I keep it taped to my computer monitor, it is a real truism. Additiction recovering requires a reprogramming of the brain. Yes, that is certainly going to take some will power, but it takes more. A new environment. Hypnotism. Drugs. Something to replace the old addiction.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I hope you feel better for exhausting your daily supply of righteous outrage, however misguided it may have been.

Ya, I did get a little tired by my last sermon, but I woke up today fully refreshed and ready to go again. Hallelujiah!

[mraynrand]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

[mraynrand]

, and there will be better technologies for fighting obesity


http://www.ndebelevillage.co.za/images/sVillageKidsPlaying.jpg

http://kids.direct.gov.uk/resource_areas/html/slideshows/images/stadium3.jpg


http://kimandjason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/playing_tag.jpg

[Zool]

Plus, some people are genetically predispositioned to be alcoholics. Do you excuse them for killing themselves with liquor because they lack the will-power to avoid it?

I don't think of it as excusing them. People are still responsibile for their destructive behavior. But I guess you could say I "excuse them" in the sense that I don't condemn them or look down on them.

And I really take issue with your "lack of will-power" comment. It is not will-power that gets people out of addictions. I have some experience with addiction. And I don't have the exact answer of how a person succeeds at overcoming addiction, but I know that the addiction will always, always trump will power alone.

Check out my quote from William S. Burroughs, I keep it taped to my computer monitor, it is a real truism. Additiction recovering requires a reprogramming of the brain. Yes, that is certainly going to take some will power, but it takes more. A new environment. Hypnotism. Drugs. Something to replace the old addiction.

It takes will power to want to change. It takes will power to go seek help. It takes will power to realize that you're responsible for yourself.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

[HowardRoark]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Are you going to start telling us about the finer points of three day old French pastries again?

Do people actually make pilgrimages to your home?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Are you going to start telling us about the finer points of three day old French pastries again?

Do people actually make pilgrimages to your home?

Is it your personal mission to seek out all my posts? Curiously, this seems to be an ad hominem attack...which you fervently despise.

1. Are you disputing that fresh fruit (cut up by the deli section) costs less than 24 donuts?
2. Food...again, culturally non aware.
3. Bakery..um, it is pretty simple. Anyone who has shopped, which you obviously leave to your wife, knows that day old bread/bakery is a value. AFter that it is dumped. Uh, that is why commercial bakeries wrap their shit up. You don't go to the local bakery/patisserie and find their goodies wrapped.

Pilgrimmage...the compound is full. I only allow free thinking hot women.

[mraynrand]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Exactly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

So, you are agreeing it costs more to eat healthy?

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Exactly.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

So, you are agreeing it costs more to eat healthy?

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Exactly.

[mraynrand]

Couldn't figure out your response, so I'll spell it out: I agree with your long view comment. OVERALL, it probably isn't more (or much more) expensive to eat relatively more healthy. Mix in 'expensive' fruits and vegetables, eat less of the 'inexpensive' crap, exercise, and in the long run I bet you don't get obese, don't generate medical bills (for Type II diabetes, etc.), and don't 'need' a bariatric bypass.

[HowardRoark]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Are you going to start telling us about the finer points of three day old French pastries again?

Do people actually make pilgrimages to your home?

Is it your personal mission to seek out all my posts? Curiously, this seems to be an ad hominem attack...which you fervently despise.

1. Are you disputing that fresh fruit (cut up by the deli section) costs less than 24 donuts?
2. Food...again, culturally non aware.
3. Bakery..um, it is pretty simple. Anyone who has shopped, which you obviously leave to your wife, knows that day old bread/bakery is a value. AFter that it is dumped. Uh, that is why commercial bakeries wrap their shit up. You don't go to the local bakery/patisserie and find their goodies wrapped.

Pilgrimmage...the compound is full. I only allow free thinking hot women.

I guess I like to imagine the all of us here in the Romper Room, you included, are a little bit above the pay grade that worries about whether or not a day old doughnut is cheaper or flakier than a fresh doughnut. Or, should we slice a vegetable, or buy it pre-sliced. Who cares? These people are unemployed and depressed!!!!!

I’ll kick in a few bucks and donate some Burpee Vegetable seeds. They can become master gardeners. It will be cheap, and who knows, they might even get over their depression. At least they will have to bend over to weed the garden every few days. Good exercise too.

All I do is give.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It takes will power to want to change. It takes will power to go seek help. It takes will power to realize that you're responsible for yourself.

you're right, it takes some will power. it's a fight. but there's something more, the brain has to change to a whole new state. what I'm saying is simple but hard to put in words. And I'm not exactly sure what it takes to get to that new state, probably different for everyone. But lets say a drinker who has tried a thousand times to quit and failed, and then somehow succeeds. Or the dieter who somehow gets over the wall - something happened to change their state of mind, the will power was the same all 1000 times before.

A lot of people are going to need a whole new environment, like hospitalization, or something dramatic, to change their state of mind.

[Harlan Huckleby]

, and there will be better technologies for fighting obesity


http://www.ndebelevillage.co.za/images/sVillageKidsPlaying.jpg

you're probably right for childhood obesity.

but I think that drugs and improved fat-substitutes in foods will help too, especially with adults.

[MJZiggy]

I don't know, Harlan. Yes, there is a miniscule portion of the population that is hardwired to overeat (about the number of fat college kids in the 50's). I will guarantee you that those who are genetically disposed in no way, shape or form reaches 86% of the populaiton, but I wonder what percentage of the population is willing to use that as an excuse when the real truth is that it's more tempting to munch when you're sitting still. Popcorn and a movie anyone? How come they don't offer popcorn and a trail ride?

I've noticed with a desk job that I could be snacking all day if I didn't pay attention, but I either drink ice water or chew gum. Or I get up from my desk and go see that co-worker upstairs rather than e-mailing.

I think that for a very small portion of the population, people are genetically hard wired to eat more. The rest are just fat.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think that for a very small portion of the population, people are genetically hard wired to eat more. The rest are just fat.

ya, it's gonna be variable. I don't believe it is just a small percentage of obese people who have a strong genetically determined behavior. Why are some kiddies in familes chubby and not others? But I can't tell ya the %

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty was working at BCBS headquarters in Jax. Ty could not believe the # of morbidly obese working at an insurance company. Every meeting that had food had bad food for you...donuts, pastries...even the bagels came with the worst of the cream cheeses, etc.

Anyway, Ty would always wonder why they couldn't have something healthy...fruit, etc. Something that didn't contribute to people getting fat..and when you eat crappy food and sit around at your job..you are going to get fat.

It was probably a money issue. Everyone knows that unhealthy foods are cheaper.

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.

course, if BCBS took a long range view, instead of a quarterly view..the problem with many businesses in this country..they woulda realized that the amount they saving now was killing them later.

Are you going to start telling us about the finer points of three day old French pastries again?

Do people actually make pilgrimages to your home?

Is it your personal mission to seek out all my posts? Curiously, this seems to be an ad hominem attack...which you fervently despise.

1. Are you disputing that fresh fruit (cut up by the deli section) costs less than 24 donuts?
2. Food...again, culturally non aware.
3. Bakery..um, it is pretty simple. Anyone who has shopped, which you obviously leave to your wife, knows that day old bread/bakery is a value. AFter that it is dumped. Uh, that is why commercial bakeries wrap their shit up. You don't go to the local bakery/patisserie and find their goodies wrapped.

Pilgrimmage...the compound is full. I only allow free thinking hot women.

I guess I like to imagine the all of us here in the Romper Room, you included, are a little bit above the pay grade that worries about whether or not a day old doughnut is cheaper or flakier than a fresh doughnut. Or, should we slice a vegetable, or buy it pre-sliced. Who cares? These people are unemployed and depressed!!!!!

I’ll kick in a few bucks and donate some Burpee Vegetable seeds. They can become master gardeners. It will be cheap, and who knows, they might even get over their depression. At least they will have to bend over to weed the garden every few days. Good exercise too.

All I do is give.

It isn't a question about buying..it is about knowing.

this thread ain't about people..it is about trans fat...try to stick to the topic.

[MJZiggy]

I think that for a very small portion of the population, people are genetically hard wired to eat more. The rest are just fat.

Why are some kiddies in familes chubby and not others?

Because their parents let them sit around playing video games or watching sesame street all day and then feed their kids Mickey D's and Twinkies.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think that for a very small portion of the population, people are genetically hard wired to eat more. The rest are just fat.

Why are some kiddies in familes chubby and not others?

Because their parents let them sit around playing video games or watching sesame street all day and then feed their kids Mickey D's and Twinkies.

I think he was asking why one child may be fat while the other isn't in one family. Not the root causes.

[MJZiggy]

Well how often does that happen? (maybe about as much as fat college kids in the50's?)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Well how often does that happen? (maybe about as much as fat college kids in the50's?)

I don't know..HH's question.

Fat women are invisible to ty....ty suffers from fat blindness.

[HowardRoark]

this thread ain't about people..it is about trans fat...try to stick to the topic.

Sorry Ty, my mistake. I am getting confused with all these threads about fat chicks and croissants.

[MJZiggy]

Well how often does that happen? (maybe about as much as fat college kids in the50's?)

I don't know..HH's question.

Fat women are invisible to ty....ty suffers from fat blindness.

I know I've been a little focused on public transportation lately, but I was gonna make some comment about fat people on the metro an it occurs to me that there aren't many fat people on the metro...And I don't mean just obese people, there just aren't that many overweight people...Huh.

[Harlan Huckleby]

it occurs to me that there aren't many fat people on the metro...And I don't mean just obese people, there just aren't that many overweight people...Huh.

and there aren't many fat people in the theater, or on airplanes.

[mraynrand]

this thread ain't about people..it is about trans fat...try to stick to the topic.

Sorry Ty, my mistake. I am getting confused with all these threads about fat chicks and croissants.

Maybe we could start a thread about transgendered fat people - then it would be all about trans fats - people and foods at the same time - plus it would appeal to metrosexuals (and people RIDING the metro) as well as the good folks of the GLBT persuasion - IOW, everybody wins!

[MJZiggy]

it occurs to me that there aren't many fat people on the metro...And I don't mean just obese people, there just aren't that many overweight people...Huh.

and there aren't many fat people in the theater, or on airplanes. And yet when there are, they always sit next to me...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

And, yet...fat bottomed girls make this rock'n world go round. :oops:

[HowardRoark]

this thread ain't about people..it is about trans fat...try to stick to the topic.

Sorry Ty, my mistake. I am getting confused with all these threads about fat chicks and croissants.

Maybe we could start a thread about transgendered fat people - then it would be all about trans fats - people and foods at the same time - plus it would appeal to metrosexuals (and people RIDING the metro) as well as the good folks of the GLBT persuasion - IOW, everybody wins!

http://www.onejerusalem.com/wp-content/rosieksm.jpg

[bobblehead]

While you are being sarcastic...there is truth to that. Hard for fresh fruit to compete with the price of dunkin donuts.



1 donut = 50 cents
1 apple = 35 cents
1 pear = 25 cents
1 orange = 30 cents
1 banana = 20 cents
3 strawberries = 50 cents
1 mango = 50 cents

You're right, the prices don't compete. Of course I'm spitballing as most of those are sold by weight, but they are very competitive (even cheaper) than donuts.