First He Gets It, Then He Doesn't - Attendance

[pbmax]

I was SO happy that M3 took woodbuck's advice and downplayed the issue. And then I got kinda sad again as he proved he hadn't yet learned.


"I'm not going to get into individual (cases)," McCarthy said when asked if he expected either player to show next week. "I think I went down the wrong road with you gentlemen a couple of weeks ago getting into this one and that one.

"To me, they are voluntary sessions, and as an organization we will adhere to that. But as a football coach we do want everybody here.

Wide receiver Chad Lucas, who played in NFL Europe this spring, attended for the first time but did not practice.

Linebacker A.J. Hawk, meanwhile, appears set to jump in with the team next week.

"I would be shocked if he wasn't here Monday," McCarthy said."

If you want to put some pressure on, build up your rookie as someone even vets can look up to and make a positive pronouncement, say something like:

"The only thing I can imagine keeping a player like AJ Hawk away, if he's the guy we think he is, is a bronken bone, maybe two."

Even by putting the onus on the player, he would have been better served with a nothing comment or a veiled threat about Hodge pushing Barnett.

[Bretsky]

We're breaking him down pretty hard when we analyze every comment like this, but I do agree with what you are saying. He should back off the comments a bit especially in regard to the rookies. He should spend more time dealing with this in private instead of with the press, and spend more time calling a few vets like Pickett and Charles Woodson trying to show them the value of showing face with new teammates.

[pbmax]

We're breaking him down pretty hard when we analyze every comment like this, but I do agree with what you are saying. He should back off the comments a bit especially in regard to the rookies. He should spend more time dealing with this in private instead of with the press, and spend more time calling a few vets like Pickett and Charles Woodson trying to show them the value of showing face with new teammates.
Bretsky, it is nitpicking, you are right. But my concern is that this on the job training stuff is not going to play well when the season starts in earnest and he needs to keep the team AND the public on an even keel. He needs to realize the power he has to set expectations.

[Bretsky]

We're breaking him down pretty hard when we analyze every comment like this, but I do agree with what you are saying. He should back off the comments a bit especially in regard to the rookies. He should spend more time dealing with this in private instead of with the press, and spend more time calling a few vets like Pickett and Charles Woodson trying to show them the value of showing face with new teammates.
Bretsky, it is nitpicking, you are right. But my concern is that this on the job training stuff is not going to play well when the season starts in earnest and he needs to keep the team AND the public on an even keel. He needs to realize the power he has to set expectations.

FWIW, I do completely agree that a lot of these comments should stay behind closed doors.

This season should be interesting. I'm completely on board with MM and he has my 100% backing; that being said, I'm a realist. And if we all step back before the search began and our Packer Homerism came out after the hire, nobody would have settled for MM as a coach (I wanted Ferentz and then Bates as a backup) so time will tell if our unbiased pre hire hopes were right or if TT was correct from the start.

Being a fist year coach in a NFL where parity is ruling, chemistry means more than it ever has. I hope MM excels at keeping this team together from the start.

B

[potsdam_11]

LOL.....

Seems way beyond nitpicking to me... McCarthy is a football coach, not Dale Carnegie..

I've read comment after comment about how soft Sherman was, and how we needed a coach to call players out. Now we have a coach that might step on a few toes,and "he's not respecting the feelings of the players... " Can't have it both ways... If the players are that sensitive to being called out, how the hell are they going to play the game ?

I get the feeling that if the Packers had a coach named Lombardi, you would be trashing him for being too "mean" ..... These "boys" make Milliions playing a game, too freakin bad if they get their toes stepped on..

I seriously doubt AJ would find anything wrong with MM's comments..

[packerpete]

maybe I am mistaken here, but the problem with M3's comments isnt that he is calling any player out, as much as it sets him up to be a dolt if things dont play out as he states.

with his "I'd be shocked" comment, doesnt he become the "shocked" deer in the headlights if Hawk is even one day removed from being there on monday? How does that make him look to everyone that read his comment? Not pretty.

Personally, I think the press needs to be kept at a much greater distance. Letting them see practices is enough, a daily debriefing by team leadership is way too much exposure. A weekly summary conference where the team leaders can be asked questions about that weeks work is plenty. The writers can write plenty from what they are allowed to observe, or maybe there ought to be better writers...

Imagine if you were debriefed every day about your work.... if your BOSS did that it would be micromanaging at its worst, now imagine someone that doesnt have anything to do with your paycheck debreifing you on a daily basis... NO Freakin Way! begin to see the ridiculousness of the situation?

Press - back off! Team - push them an arms length away. they are hurting team dynamics with all this microscope reporting.

[Scott Campbell]

LOL.....

Seems way beyond nitpicking to me... McCarthy is a football coach, not Dale Carnegie..



Don't you think Vince had plenty of Carnegie like traits?

[Scott Campbell]

Personally, I think the press needs to be kept at a much greater distance. Letting them see practices is enough, a daily debriefing by team leadership is way too much exposure. A weekly summary conference where the team leaders can be asked questions about that weeks work is plenty.

I like this idea. It also gives MM time to more fully prepare for it. The Packers could use some sort of Media Relations Advisor that helps prepare these guys and keeps them on message.

[potsdam_11]

First off, I could just as easily interpret the " I'd be shocked" statement as a positive endorsement for Hawk, as in, "He's a high character guy, and I would be shocked if he didn't show.” I fail to see where this is a blow to Hawk, if he misses practice for some unforeseen reason.. You're reading way too much into that comment..

Secondly,.. The press has "everything" to do with the paycheck these guys take home... Do you honestly think that the NFL players would make, anywhere near the money they do, without the press..??? Ouch... pretty naive comment there, the players live in a spotlight, and are paid accordingly.... These "poor" players don't complain when the press slaps their face on every magazine cover, or spends hundreds of hours raving over their inherent skills. So why bitch when they report everything else...

It's part of the game... the press sells it, the players profit from it, and we eat it up.... Unfortunately it seems, the press has empowered us to become "experts" as well... and now we can bite the hand that feeds us too.... Just like the players..

Do I wish the press would back off….perhaps, but then what? A carefully choreographed press release, where we get a polished commentary on the status of the team…. “Oh gee, things are swellӉâ� �€šÂ¬Ã‚¦. “All the guys tried real hard this week”; “We really like our new coach, he is a genius” No Thanks…

If my boss paid me NFL money, he could breakdown every hour I work for all I care…
Hell, I’d love the attention….

[motife]

LOL.....

Seems way beyond nitpicking to me... McCarthy is a football coach, not Dale Carnegie..



Don't you think Vince had plenty of Carnegie like traits?

careful. ziggy has a Dale Carnegie quote in her signature.

my favorite quotations are ones from Harpo Marx.

http://www.marx-brothers.org/living/bbc2_hm.wav

here he is, dressed nicely for a change, with President Truman :

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/images/truman-and-harpo-marx.jpg

[pbmax]

I've read comment after comment about how soft Sherman was, and how we needed a coach to call players out. Now we have a coach that might step on a few toes,and "he's not respecting the feelings of the players... " Can't have it both ways... If the players are that sensitive to being called out, how the hell are they going to play the game ?
If M3 if tougher publicly on the players, I am all for it if it produces positive results. But this comment wasn't tough on Hawk or anyone else.

PackerPete had my interpretation down. Immediately after saying he was not going to comment on individual's schedules, he comments on an individual's schedule.

That puts the press and Hawk in the driver seat of making McCarthy look prescient or a fool. And that's a bad place to be.

Does it mean he can't coach? No, but it makes the job harder. Lombardi, Parcells and Knight could/can bully the press because half of them are in awe and many others are scared. McCarthy doesn't have a track record to back that approach up.

[woodbuck27]

We're breaking him down pretty hard when we analyze every comment like this, but I do agree with what you are saying. He should back off the comments a bit especially in regard to the rookies. He should spend more time dealing with this in private instead of with the press, and spend more time calling a few vets like Pickett and Charles Woodson trying to show them the value of showing face with new teammates.

Another writer on the Packer beat, chimes in with this latest article.


Posted June 10, 2006


Notebook: Unexplained absences still dog Packers


By Dylan B. Tomlinson
PackersNews.com

As the Green Bay Packers reached the halfway mark of June’s organized team activities, cornerbacks Al Harris and Charles Woodson and defensive tackle Ryan Pickett had yet to make an appearance.

Harris is boycotting the workouts in hopes that the Packers redo his contract, but the absences of Woodson and Pickett are a little more curious. Other than re-signing defensive end Aaron Kampman, the free-agent acquisitions of Woodson and Pickett were the biggest moves the Packers made this offseason.

Other than at the mandatory first minicamp, attendance at the second minicamp and organized team activities has been spotty at best. While the workouts are optional, the Packers have been without several key players the majority of the time.

“The offseason program, as a whole I’ll never be satisfied until we have 100 percent (attendance),” coach Mike McCarthy said. “Thatâ� �‚¬â„¢s the goal, but I’m not naïve to the fact of the change we’re going through and we’ll continue to work through that. I’m not going to sit here and single out individuals and go through every single case. Nothing positive comes out of that, and I will deal with that directly on an individual basis like I have been.”

Throughout the June workouts, McCarthy’s only explanation for players’ absences has been that they were gone for “personal reasons.” On Friday, linebackers Nick Barnett and Abdul Hodge and fullback Vonta Leach were the latest to miss practices for personal reasons. Quarterback Brett Favre also did not practice.

“To me, they are voluntary sessions, and as an organization, we will adhere to that,” McCarthy said. “But as a football coach, we do want everybody here.”

Linebacker A.J. Hawk, whom the Packers selected with the fifth overall pick in April’s NFL draft, has been absent from practices since the first minicamp. Unlike the others, it is known what Hawk has been doing. McCarthy said Hawk was in the process of finishing up his studies at Ohio State and expected him at workouts soon.

“Heââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s supposed to finish up this weekend,” McCarthy said. “I would be shocked if he wasn’t here Monday.”
McCarthy said he wasn’t worried about Hawk having to play catch-up despite the time he missed.

“(The coaches) have been in contact,” McCarthy said. “Weââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢re going to be fine there, I think.”

European arrivals: Chad Lucas, who caught 27 passes for 440 yards and eight touchdowns for the Frankfurt Galaxy in NFL Europe, made his first appearance at Friday’s practice. The Packers have several players who played in NFL Europe who have yet to report as they recover from injuries. Receiver Vince Butler and safety Atari Bigby haven’t practiced.

“We have a number of guys coming from Europe,” McCarthy said.

Injuries: Running backs Ahman Green (quadriceps), Najeh Davenport (ankle), Arliss Beach (knee) and Chaz Williams (knee), tackles Chad Clifton (knee) and Adrian Klemm (knee) attended practice but did not participate. Cornerback Will Blackmon (foot) and offensive lineman Kevin Barry (quadriceps) also are out with injuries, but were not at practice.

Next practice: The Packers will be off for the weekend and will hold their next practice at 11:15 a.m. Monday on Clarke Hinkle Field.

Dylan B. Tomlinson writes for The Post-Crescent of Appleton. E-mail him at dtomlins@postcrescent.com

[woodbuck27]

It is too bad but Mike McCarthy should 'in fact ' have merely reported on AJ Hawk, that the Packers are expecting him to be in TC (maybe) on Monday and left it there. That AJ Hawk wil be on board soon as far as he knew. End of that !

I in other respects, agree with M3's remarks on the absences of Vet's Harris ,Woodson and Pickett - that 'of course - he wanted them to be at the OTA's', as these are important role models and therefore very valuable to the Packer image and aspirations for the newer players.

What would that mean in all likelyhood is diddly squat . . .so maybe M3 could serve himself and all concerned alot better, by simply saying that:

Attendance overall is generally decent and they are moving along. That we don't live in a perfect world, and therefore those who are absent from the OTA's are expected to be in top shape and of course, play catch up in TC. That he "is expecting some real battles at all positions" come late July.

That after TC the Packers will use what they have and may acquire, to put together the very BEST 53 - Man Roster possible. To trust - that will be a fact.

[KYPack]

Personally, I think the press needs to be kept at a much greater distance. Letting them see practices is enough, a daily debriefing by team leadership is way too much exposure. A weekly summary conference where the team leaders can be asked questions about that weeks work is plenty.

I like this idea. It also gives MM time to more fully prepare for it. The Packers could use some sort of Media Relations Advisor that helps prepare these guys and keeps them on message.

You are 100% right, Scott. I posted similar comments around the time of the Sherm canning. Both these guys need a professional media person to help them in several areas:

-The media guy can craft all public pronoucement to improve their quality.

- A media strategy needs to be made. I agree with PP, there is no need for feeding the media once a day with public pronouncement. A spokesman could deliver daily information and the coach appear once a week, or something along those lines.

- The media guy could coach these guys on their delivery of important messages. TT made me post this earlier with his delivery of the message of the MS firing. He was a clinic on how NOT to make a public announcement on behalf of an organization. The media guiy would advise all elements of his performance that day. His dress, the copy, his posture, his demeanor, the whole thing was poorly done. A professional would've cleaned him up and got the information conveyed in a professional manner. TT looked like a nervous high school valedictorian blowing his first public speech.

Having a spokesman/media advisor would cost peanuts and yield immediate positive results. These two boys need professional help, NOW.

[packerpete]

In reply to my "press should be kept at arms length" posts, some in this thread and others have stated that I am foolish and that the press is the only reason the money is there for the NFL, also that "our" own thirst for knowledge would be restricted.

No F'ing way!

The press is a small player, do not forget that the public has lots of options, if the press is responsible for the NFL's popularity, they are obviously missing the point of their purpose... to inform, not to shill or be lap dogs or bloodhounds looking for gossip and dirt. The product is responsible for the popularity, not the press.

I also stated in my post that IMO the press should be allowed access to watch what is going on, and then report on it, not be gestapo interrogaters every single day. The people that have taken me to task for stating thatinterviews/interrogations of the HC should be limited say that the public thirsts for such news. I think not. If the press simply observed practices and preparations and then reported, that would satisfy the publics desire to know what is happening with the team.

If reporters were allowed to watch and then report without the interrogations, they would have to truly understand what was happening to write informed articles. what a novelty, a reporter with knowledge of the topic they write about!! My point exactly is if these people, the press, dont have any more knowledge than say... you or I, why read their drivel? why not simply read forums such as this, if we are equal in knowledge level? These people have to do some due diligence and learn their topic area or IMO, they shouldnt be writing on that topic.

In short, IMO the press needs to get BETTER AT REPORTING, and not simply have carte blanche access to interrogate Packer players and officials on topics which sometimes have very little to do with football.

BTW, thanks to those who support my position, not all were critical... didnt mean to sound like that.

[woodbuck27]

In reply to my "press should be kept at arms length" posts, some in this thread and others have stated that I am foolish and that the press is the only reason the money is there for the NFL, also that "our" own thirst for knowledge would be restricted.

No F'ing way!

The press is a small player, do not forget that the public has lots of options, if the press is responsible for the NFL's popularity, they are obviously missing the point of their purpose... to inform, not to shill or be lap dogs or bloodhounds looking for gossip and dirt. The product is responsible for the popularity, not the press.

I also stated in my post that IMO the press should be allowed access to watch what is going on, and then report on it, not be gestapo interrogaters every single day. The people that have taken me to task for stating thatinterviews/interrogations of the HC should be limited say that the public thirsts for such news. I think not. If the press simply observed practices and preparations and then reported, that would satisfy the publics desire to know what is happening with the team.

If reporters were allowed to watch and then report without the interrogations, they would have to truly understand what was happening to write informed articles. what a novelty, a reporter with knowledge of the topic they write about!! My point exactly is if these people, the press, dont have any more knowledge than say... you or I, why read their drivel? why not simply read forums such as this, if we are equal in knowledge level? These people have to do some due diligence and learn their topic area or IMO, they shouldnt be writing on that topic.

In short, IMO the press needs to get BETTER AT REPORTING, and not simply have carte blanche access to interrogate Packer players and officials on topics which sometimes have very little to do with football.

BTW, thanks to those who support my position, not all were critical... didnt mean to sound like that.

Good post packerpete.

My position is, as fans where would we be, if all we had was Packers.Com style sites? Information from that site ( Our team site) is more restricted than 'the Vatican'. I don't intend to bring religion into it , LOL .

The press should report as objectively and freely as possible, because other than those who participate on forums like this, and have first hand knowledge of 'say the OTA's by attending", how would we know anything?

The press must 'in the best world', at least try to get out the facts. Surely that can be done effectively in the sporting arena, if it can't politically.

The press report and the fans read and make a generalization and support a certain position as a whole. Ultimately, when you come right down to it. It's the fans that can dictate alot, if push came to shove and boycott positions were reached out of any disgust. Fans have, as often is the case far more power.than they realize.

They certainly, through good reporting can decide if a certain player (players) are worth this or that reward or punishment. As a fan, I want all the information on any subject of my interest the press can give me.

I'm just like Joe Friday. I want 'just the facts'.

[swede]

It has also been cool to have ordinary Packers bloggers commenting on the voluntary camps. That way the local writers don't have a monopoly on the information flow. People are watching lots of different things and the eyes of a Packer Rat on-site can provide unique nuggets of information not found anywhere else. (Favre snitching TT's smokeless!)

MM can be clumsy with the press for all I care. He'll learn soon enough.

If MM screws up and says something dumb about a player that gets twisted by the media I'm sure he have a private conversation to straighten it out. No damge will be done.

I have as little respect for sports journalists as I do for...ahem...news jounalists. As far as I'm concerned MM is already overdue to cuss out another reporter. Now that's entertainment!