Trust

[HarveyWallbangers]

This has been a tough situation for everyone. I think a lot of fans are like me. A Packer fan #1, but a long-time ardent Favre supporter. I won't diminish what Favre has done. Sure, our playoff success hasn't been great the last 10 years, but there were often mitigating circumstances for our failures. (The NFC championship game last year was the first time I questioned whether Favre could get the job done.)

This whole issue comes down to one thing for me. Trust. Who do I trust more, Ted Thompson or Brett Favre? I've come to the conclusion that it's Thompson.

Do I trust the guy who has publicly thrown his GM, head coach, OL coach under the bus OR do I trust the guy who has had nothing but good things to say about Favre publicly?

Do I trust the guy whose cronies (agent, brothers, etc.) lambast the organization every chance they get (Moss deal, Packers are doing what they can to drive Favre away, etc.) OR do I trust the organization that has said nothing bad publicly about Favre (other than to say that he waffled and they've moved on)?

Do I trust the guy who gave a charade of an interview on national TV (fielding softball questions from Greta and saying bitter things about the organization) OR do I trust the guy who has stood up in press conferences and took the grilling from any media member that wanted to show?

Do I trust the guy with a star QBs ego (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) or the guy who seems to have a pretty small ego for a NFL GM? Favre has been coddled for the better part of 15 years--mostly because of his talent. Thompson is a guy who stayed in the NFL for 10 years because of his character and work ethic.

Do I trust the guy that has said some things that I find extremely hard to believe, and who seems to have let his emotions control how interprets specific conversations?

When I think about these things, it's clear that I trust Ted Thompson more than Brett Favre.

[BallHawk]

Well said, Harv. Agree 100%.

[ND72]

couldn't have said it any better.

[Spaulding]

Nice post Harv. I'd buy you a Newcastle if I could since you phrased it far better than I ever could.

One thing to add, I trust the judgement of a man that eats/sleeps/shits football almost 24x7 365 days a year even over a first ballot HOF QB who has quite possibly (IMO even over Reggie and Wolf, etc.) been the single most reason the Packers have been competitive since 1993.

[PackerTimer]

I completely agree with this.

[The Leaper]

I also trust Thompson with the future of the organization more than Favre...I realize Rodgers is our QB now, and I'm fine with that even though I recognize 2008 will be an "adjustment" year for the kid.

[RashanGary]

Great Post!!

[Chevelle2]

Fantastic.

[cpk1994]

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

I agree.

[boiga]

I suppose I'm on this bandwagon as well...

[pacfan]

Good post as always, Harv.

I don't trust either side. On one side we have a star player who has had his way for many years. He's been well taken care of.

On the other side we have a polished organization that is working hard to show the entire world that one player can't dictate terms to the "company", organization whatever. They are professionals, organized and on-message. They would be incredibly stupid to get into a spitting match with anybody let alone a star HOF QB.

Favre was a good soldier for many years, never really bitched about his work conditions. He suffered through Rhodes, Sherman, the weak OC's, and lack of obvious talent. He called out Sharpe and Walker when they did their grandstanding. He showed up for work every day, he sacrificed some things that other people would not have; the Oakland game, busted fingers,

Thompson is doing what he should do, be consistent and show that one player can’t hold a team hostage. But I'm not sure I take his words at face value. The Packers said Favre could compete, then they say he can't. He is welcome to camp, then he isn't. They moved on and yet can’t trade Favre. They won’t release him which literally has been the only consistent message coming Thompson & Co.. I think the ESPN article by Christl about Harlan having some calming effects when he was in charge might have some merit. The Packer leadership is definitely behind the ball, the team CEO traveling to a players home to say what exactly?

To anoint an unproven player as the starting QB despite never starting a game? It’s the coach’s call obviously-but not having a QB with any starting experience on the roster makes me think this was a “rushed” decision to tell Favre not to return. No security at the position in case Rodgers is injured.

For me the real question is, which will never be answered truthfully, was Favre forced to make a decision?

I wonder if Favre’s consecutive starts streak might have pissed McCarthy off?

The only thing I know for sure is that this situation is fucked up. Favre has the upper hand because he wants to play and Minnesota wants him to play for them.

Murphy/Thompson/McCarthy team obviously is tired of the special status Favre had with the team and won’t stand for it anymore. They just lack the ability to affect a clean resolution.

Release Favre and move on, we’ll survive.

[cpk1994]

Good post as always, Harv.

I don't trust either side. On one side we have a star player who has had his way for many years. He's been well taken care of.

On the other side we have a polished organization that is working hard to show the entire world that one player can't dictate terms to the "company", organization whatever. They are professionals, organized and on-message. They would be incredibly stupid to get into a spitting match with anybody let alone a star HOF QB.

Favre was a good soldier for many years, never really bitched about his work conditions. He suffered through Rhodes, Sherman, the weak OC's, and lack of obvious talent. He called out Sharpe and Walker when they did their grandstanding. He showed up for work every day, he sacrificed some things that other people would not have; the Oakland game, busted fingers,

Thompson is doing what he should do, be consistent and show that one player can’t hold a team hostage. But I'm not sure I take his words at face value. The Packers said Favre could compete, then they say he can't. He is welcome to camp, then he isn't. They moved on and yet can’t trade Favre. They won’t release him which literally has been the only consistent message coming Thompson & Co.. I think the ESPN article by Christl about Harlan having some calming effects when he was in charge might have some merit. The Packer leadership is definitely behind the ball, the team CEO traveling to a players home to say what exactly?

To anoint an unproven player as the starting QB despite never starting a game? It’s the coach’s call obviously-but not having a QB with any starting experience on the roster makes me think this was a “rushed” decision to tell Favre not to return. No security at the position in case Rodgers is injured.

For me the real question is, which will never be answered truthfully, was Favre forced to make a decision?

I wonder if Favre’s consecutive starts streak might have pissed McCarthy off?

The only thing I know for sure is that this situation is fucked up. Favre has the upper hand because he wants to play and Minnesota wants him to play for them.

Murphy/Thompson/McCarthy team obviously is tired of the special status Favre had with the team and won’t stand for it anymore. They just lack the ability to affect a clean resolution.

Release Favre and move on, we’ll survive.I wouldn't asy he suffered through Sherman as he got what ever he wanted then and that is part of the reason that Brett has become what he has become.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Favre has the upper hand because he wants to play and Minnesota wants him to play for them.

Please explain how this gives Favre the upper hand, or helps his bargaining position in any way.


Release Favre and move on, we’ll survive.

Why throw away an asset and possibly strengthen a division rival? Not going to happen.

If Favre will not accept the #2 job, which seems all but certain, the packers will just let him sit at home until a trade can be arranged. If not now, then into the season when an injury occurs.

[Spaulding]

Good post as always, Harv.

I don't trust either side. On one side we have a star player who has had his way for many years. He's been well taken care of.

On the other side we have a polished organization that is working hard to show the entire world that one player can't dictate terms to the "company", organization whatever. They are professionals, organized and on-message. They would be incredibly stupid to get into a spitting match with anybody let alone a star HOF QB.

Favre was a good soldier for many years, never really bitched about his work conditions. He suffered through Rhodes, Sherman, the weak OC's, and lack of obvious talent. He called out Sharpe and Walker when they did their grandstanding. He showed up for work every day, he sacrificed some things that other people would not have; the Oakland game, busted fingers,

Thompson is doing what he should do, be consistent and show that one player can’t hold a team hostage. But I'm not sure I take his words at face value. The Packers said Favre could compete, then they say he can't. He is welcome to camp, then he isn't. They moved on and yet can’t trade Favre. They won’t release him which literally has been the only consistent message coming Thompson & Co.. I think the ESPN article by Christl about Harlan having some calming effects when he was in charge might have some merit. The Packer leadership is definitely behind the ball, the team CEO traveling to a players home to say what exactly?

To anoint an unproven player as the starting QB despite never starting a game? It’s the coach’s call obviously-but not having a QB with any starting experience on the roster makes me think this was a “rushed” decision to tell Favre not to return. No security at the position in case Rodgers is injured.

For me the real question is, which will never be answered truthfully, was Favre forced to make a decision?

I wonder if Favre’s consecutive starts streak might have pissed McCarthy off?

The only thing I know for sure is that this situation is fucked up. Favre has the upper hand because he wants to play and Minnesota wants him to play for them.

Murphy/Thompson/McCarthy team obviously is tired of the special status Favre had with the team and won’t stand for it anymore. They just lack the ability to affect a clean resolution.

Release Favre and move on, we’ll survive.

If it ends up being absolute that Favre doesn't come back to the Packers as the #2 (whether he wants to or not) which is what it's looking like, I'd much rather the organization trade him for even a conditional late round pick. To be able to prevent him from going to a divisional rival is worth pretty much anything at this point. It no longer becomes trade value but more so ability to direct his placement.

[packinpatland]

This has been a tough situation for everyone. I think a lot of fans are like me. A Packer fan #1, but a long-time ardent Favre supporter. I won't diminish what Favre has done. Sure, our playoff success hasn't been great the last 10 years, but there were often mitigating circumstances for our failures. (The NFC championship game last year was the first time I questioned whether Favre could get the job done.)

This whole issue comes down to one thing for me. Trust. Who do I trust more, Ted Thompson or Brett Favre? I've come to the conclusion that it's Thompson.

Do I trust the guy who has publicly thrown his GM, head coach, OL coach under the bus OR do I trust the guy who has had nothing but good things to say about Favre publicly?

Do I trust the guy whose cronies (agent, brothers, etc.) lambast the organization every chance they get (Moss deal, Packers are doing what they can to drive Favre away, etc.) OR do I trust the organization that has said nothing bad publicly about Favre (other than to say that he waffled and they've moved on)?

Do I trust the guy who gave a charade of an interview on national TV (fielding softball questions from Greta and saying bitter things about the organization) OR do I trust the guy who has stood up in press conferences and took the grilling from any media member that wanted to show?

Do I trust the guy with a star QBs ego (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) or the guy who seems to have a pretty small ego for a NFL GM? Favre has been coddled for the better part of 15 years--mostly because of his talent. Thompson is a guy who stayed in the NFL for 10 years because of his character and work ethic.

Do I trust the guy that has said some things that I find extremely hard to believe, and who seems to have let his emotions control how interprets specific conversations?

When I think about these things, it's clear that I trust Ted Thompson more than Brett Favre.

This what I love about this site................we can agree.............
............................TO DISAGREE. :wink:

[pacfan]

Favre has the upper hand because he wants to play and Minnesota wants him to play for them.

Please explain how this gives Favre the upper hand, or helps his bargaining position in any way.


Release Favre and move on, we’ll survive.

Why throw away an asset and possibly strengthen a division rival? Not going to happen.

If Favre will not accept the #2 job, which seems all but certain, the packers will just let him sit at home until a trade can be arranged. If not now, then into the season when an injury occurs.

Favre supposedly rejected overtures by the Bucs and Jets. No team will "give" the Pack a draft choice for a guy who won't play for them.

I don't want Farve in Minnesota for many reasons but with him filing his reinstatement papers with the NFL the Pack either has to either put him on the roster or get rid of him. He is a an asset (read: ass) but the trade or release is probably the Packs only option and trade is extremely limited.

[GBRulz]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

With that being said, I don't think either side is being fully honest and both sides are to blame.

[Freak Out]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.

[ND72]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

[Partial]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

Why would Minnesota beat us if Favre isn't good enough to play on our team? :!: :?:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

With that being said, I don't think either side is being fully honest and both sides are to blame.

No GM is going to be brutally honest when it comes to personnel decisions in front of the media. They wouldn't last long if they did. I believe Favre believes what he says is true. I don't trust his cronies and I don't trust his own recollection of events. Seems to me his ego is bruised. He's too emotionally attached--which is understandble. It's like an argument with a loved one. You're so emotional attached that you say things you don't mean to defend yourself and sometimes you're so flustered that you don't recollect things as well as you normally might.

[ND72]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

Why would Minnesota beat us if Favre isn't good enough to play on our team? :!: :?:


Never said that, or anyone else. But lets be serious. With Favre on our team this year we'll have to battle to win those games vs. Minnesota.

[Partial]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

Why would Minnesota beat us if Favre isn't good enough to play on our team? :!: :?:


Never said that, or anyone else. But lets be serious. With Favre on our team this year we'll have to battle to win those games vs. Minnesota.

Well, my suggestion is if they are that concerned about it, he is obviously a quality player that should start. Note no one has mentioned being scared of playing the Vikes with Rodgers

[Spaulding]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

Why would Minnesota beat us if Favre isn't good enough to play on our team? :!: :?:


Never said that, or anyone else. But lets be serious. With Favre on our team this year we'll have to battle to win those games vs. Minnesota.

Hmm, who played QB in the M3 system the past two years and also scrimmaged the defense day in and out. Regardless of any new wrinkles they throw in this year, it's like locking your car door and then giving the keys to your arch enemy.

Think you'll have a car left regardless of how good the arch enemy is at driving?

[PackerTimer]

Not giving him up to the Vikings isn't about who is better Rodgers or Favre. It's about giving up a player who would improve the Vikings team. I'm sure the Packers would not be willing to give up AROD to the Vikings either. It has nothing to do with him being better than Rodgers, it's because he's a significant upgrade over what the Vikings have.

[ND72]

Partial...Do you think the Red Sox would trade Manny to the Yankees?

[cpk1994]

Not giving him up to the Vikings isn't about who is better Rodgers or Favre. It's about giving up a player who would improve the Vikings team. I'm sure the Packers would not be willing to give up AROD to the Vikings either. It has nothing to do with him being better than Rodgers, it's because he's a significant upgrade over what the Vikings have.Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe trust is the wrong word. Maybe I should say that Thompson garners more sympathy from me. The things I believe:

1) Favre has talked about retirement for years. No problem.
2) Favre is bitter with Thompson for not listening to him on personnel moves. Favre felt like he was not being listened to by Thompson. Why should he be? He's a player. He's not the GM. Not a big problem--until he started criticizing him publicly.
3) Thompson's philosophy of building through the draft and developing those young guys made Favre feel like he was being pushed out the door.
4) The Packers pressured him into making a decision before the draft. No problem.
5) Favre felt pressured to make a decision (maybe not in early March, but before the draft). He chose to retire. No problem.
6) Favre contacted the Packers about coming back in late March. No problem.
7) The Packers agreed to let him come back and he waffled. This is where it became a problem.
8) The Packers moved on once the draft came around and once they started offseason workouts. That's their right. They had to. Not just for this year, but for the future of the franchise.
9) Favre stated he was almost 100% committed in late June.
10) The Packers told him they had moved on. They told him that he'd have to be a backup if he wanted to come back. Favre was shocked and his ego was bruised. Favre felt unwanted. This is where it went downhill. Maybe the hurt drove him to be an asshat.

Nowhere in here do I think the Packers organization (Thompson) did anything terrible wrong. It's all about how Favre feels. What about how Thompson or Rodgers feels? Of course, nobody cares. They aren't Favre. Personally, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for Brett. Most of these things were his own doing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

Favre has not been brutally honest, just brutal. Well, he has been open, but that's not the same as honest.

I guess I am still pissed about his taking TT's joke about getting fired and twisting into something completely different. that was dishonest.

[mmmdk]

Brilliant Harv, buddy brilliant post :)

[Bossman641]

Not giving him up to the Vikings isn't about who is better Rodgers or Favre. It's about giving up a player who would improve the Vikings team. I'm sure the Packers would not be willing to give up AROD to the Vikings either. It has nothing to do with him being better than Rodgers, it's because he's a significant upgrade over what the Vikings have.Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I should just put this in my sig for the next time someone says "Well if the packers don't want him just give him to the Vikings. What is TT scared of?"

So stupid.

Packers have an asset, they should use it to get as big a return as it is. Now, if it comes down to trading Favre to the Vikings for a 2nd or to a AFC team for a 4th then we will have a debate. Right now, there is no reason to give in to Favre and just give him to the Vikings.

[prsnfoto]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

Favre has not been brutally honest, just brutal. Well, he has been open, but that's not the same as honest.

I guess I am still pissed about his taking TT's joke about getting fired and twisting into something completely different. that was dishonest.

Kinda like the team issued cell phone ! TT never denied that either until this weekend and he never fully denied the firing quote he just said maybe Brett misunderstood and then wouldn't answer anymore questions about it. You can be pissed at Brett for lots of things but this wouldn't be one of them in my book.

[PackerTimer]

Not giving him up to the Vikings isn't about who is better Rodgers or Favre. It's about giving up a player who would improve the Vikings team. I'm sure the Packers would not be willing to give up AROD to the Vikings either. It has nothing to do with him being better than Rodgers, it's because he's a significant upgrade over what the Vikings have.Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I should just put this in my sig for the next time someone says "Well if the packers don't want him just give him to the Vikings. What is TT scared of?"

So stupid.

Packers have an asset, they should use it to get as big a return as it is. Now, if it comes down to trading Favre to the Vikings for a 2nd or to a AFC team for a 4th then we will have a debate. Right now, there is no reason to give in to Favre and just give him to the Vikings.

I obviously completely agree that is a stupid argument. It's not about whether the Packers are better off without him. It's whether the Vikings are. And the answer to that is clearly a yes.

[packrulz]

The Pack was a field goal away in OT from the Super Bowl last year, they have 2 good QB's under contract, Favre already has stated he would compete ARod for the job, why not let them battle it out? They could make it to the Super Bowl with both. The whole thing has become nothing but a pissing contest. It tarnishes Favre's legacy and makes TT look foolish. TT and M3 should get everyone to pull together and they could have a Super Bowl caliber team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kinda like the team issued cell phone ! TT never denied that either until this weekend

Since when has Thompson been the type that responds to every rumor out there? It's HIGHLY unlikely that it was a rumor that somebody in the Packers organization started. It was a rumor that PFT, I believe, pushed thinking that it would be the only way the Packers could have Favre's cellphone records. Think about it. What would be the sense of the Packers organization starting a false rumor like that? Why would it be Thompson's responsibility to shoot it down? BTW, he did respond to the question when he was asked about it by the media.

This is a bogus rip on Thompson, and it's why it's hard to take some of the Favre supporters seriously.

[sharpe1027]

Kinda like the team issued cell phone ! TT never denied that either until this weekend and he never fully denied the firing quote he just said maybe Brett misunderstood and then wouldn't answer anymore questions about it. You can be pissed at Brett for lots of things but this wouldn't be one of them in my book.

I believe the team issued a statement the next day that they did not have player issued cell phones.

They only way it is possible for Brett to have misunderstood was if TT never said that. Thus, if TT said Brett may have misunderstood, that means TT did not say that.

[RIPackerFan]

And let's be honest here. With Murphy flying down to talk to Favre (because of his reinstatement and plans to come to camp).....it lead a lot more credibility that TT saying something like that.

While TT may have said it jokingly, the significance of flying Murphy down there means that they don't want him in camp. To me it speaks volumes that while the "joke" may have been lost, the meaning and intention was all there....and while TT may have not meant he would get fired....serious heat would be on him if Favre showed up.

[mission]

I'm not buying a car from either one of them so trust really is not a factor. If the Packers have moved on and don't want him then release him. This has become complete BS...if M3 and TT are so confident in our roster/progress then let him go.


Yeah..that'd be smart. How about we open the doors to the locker room at Lambeau and let people just walk in? Here you go Minnesota, kick our ass twice this year, OH, and we get nothing for it except the sore arse. in the words of Guiness....BRILLIANT

Why would Minnesota beat us if Favre isn't good enough to play on our team? :!: :?:

Because 11 people are playing.

Not one. But you, Favre, and everyone else without a brain doesn't understand this team concept.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And let's be honest here. With Murphy flying down to talk to Favre (because of his reinstatement and plans to come to camp).....it lead a lot more credibility that TT saying something like that.

While TT may have said it jokingly, the significance of flying Murphy down there means that they don't want him in camp. To me it speaks volumes that while the "joke" may have been lost, the meaning and intention was all there....and while TT may have not meant he would get fired....serious heat would be on him if Favre showed up.

The difference of opinion on the conversation had nothing to do with whether it was a joke or not. The difference was that Favre said Thompson said he'd get fired if Favre reported to camp. It's been reported that Thomspon said he'd get fired if he released Favre. I can't say who had the best recollection of the conversation--although saying he'd get fired if he released Favre makes more sense. Don't really care that much about the actual conversation. Please note who divulged information from a private conversation--that did little but try to embarrass the other party.

[RIPackerFan]

What can Favre do?

People would be slamming him if he didn't come to camp and didn't provide a reason. While he may have discussed what went on in a private conversation, I have to believe that TT did not say that this should not be discussed - and if TT didn't - its fair game to explain the reasoning why he isn't going to camp.

Also, without being in the room when Favre relayed the conversation to the reporters, we don't know if he laughed when he relayed that TT would get fired (indicating it was a joke - but the reporters didn't report on it - just wrote the quote which was taken out of context).

But hey - reporters never do that, do they?

[cpk1994]

The Pack was a field goal away in OT from the Super Bowl last year, they have 2 good QB's under contract, Favre already has stated he would compete ARod for the job, why not let them battle it out? They could make it to the Super Bowl with both. The whole thing has become nothing but a pissing contest. It tarnishes Favre's legacy and makes TT look foolish. TT and M3 should get everyone to pull together and they could have a Super Bowl caliber team.Becuase Favre threw the orginizatyion under the bus and during said interview flat out refused to compete. That was after he retired, unretired, retired and unretired again. And they are supposed to give in to him all of a sudden becuase he says he will compete? I wouldn't give him the time of day.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What can Favre do?

He could have said the Packers didn't want him to report to camp, and left it at that. The "shaken" (even if he was) and "I'll get fired" (even if Thompson said it) comments were unnecessary. The only purpose it would serve is to embarrass Thompson.

Again, I think a lot of this has to do with Favre ego. He thought he could waltz back in at any time and he was surprised when they told him they had moved on. I'm sure emotions are playing a big part in some of the stuff he is doing. I sure wish Big Irv was still around. He seemed to have a ton of common sense, and Brett leaned on him in times like this. That support system is gone, and now he has a bunch of people giving him bad advice.

[cpk1994]

What can Favre do?

People would be slamming him if he didn't come to camp and didn't provide a reason. While he may have discussed what went on in a private conversation, I have to believe that TT did not say that this should not be discussed - and if TT didn't - its fair game to explain the reasoning why he isn't going to camp.

Also, without being in the room when Favre relayed the conversation to the reporters, we don't know if he laughed when he relayed that TT would get fired (indicating it was a joke - but the reporters didn't report on it - just wrote the quote which was taken out of context).

But hey - reporters never do that, do they?Considering that Farve called TT "shattered", suggests that Favre wasn't joking.

[sheepshead]

This has been a tough situation for everyone. I think a lot of fans are like me. A Packer fan #1, but a long-time ardent Favre supporter. I won't diminish what Favre has done. Sure, our playoff success hasn't been great the last 10 years, but there were often mitigating circumstances for our failures. (The NFC championship game last year was the first time I questioned whether Favre could get the job done.)

This whole issue comes down to one thing for me. Trust. Who do I trust more, Ted Thompson or Brett Favre? I've come to the conclusion that it's Thompson.

Do I trust the guy who has publicly thrown his GM, head coach, OL coach under the bus OR do I trust the guy who has had nothing but good things to say about Favre publicly?

Do I trust the guy whose cronies (agent, brothers, etc.) lambast the organization every chance they get (Moss deal, Packers are doing what they can to drive Favre away, etc.) OR do I trust the organization that has said nothing bad publicly about Favre (other than to say that he waffled and they've moved on)?

Do I trust the guy who gave a charade of an interview on national TV (fielding softball questions from Greta and saying bitter things about the organization) OR do I trust the guy who has stood up in press conferences and took the grilling from any media member that wanted to show?

Do I trust the guy with a star QBs ego (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) or the guy who seems to have a pretty small ego for a NFL GM? Favre has been coddled for the better part of 15 years--mostly because of his talent. Thompson is a guy who stayed in the NFL for 10 years because of his character and work ethic.

Do I trust the guy that has said some things that I find extremely hard to believe, and who seems to have let his emotions control how interprets specific conversations?

When I think about these things, it's clear that I trust Ted Thompson more than Brett Favre.

I concur here totally. TT has an excellent history of doing the right thing behind the scenes, off the field. Brett has an excellent history of doing the right things on the field. Not so much off the field.

I still love the guy, but I'm with you it's not being handled well from Mississippi and his dim witted agent can share the blame also.

[gex]

Brett Favre is more open and honest(which gets him in trouble sometimes) than TT. IMO.

[RIPackerFan]

I am sure that Favre's ego is bruised - no doubt.

However, I thought the explanation - while maybe a little long winded - was more to explain why he still wasn't going.

Remember - everyone close to him was telling him to go to camp. I actually think he was trying to be a good guy by not going - and his explanation was probably relaying the reasoning he told Bus and Deanna (and he thought that everyone need that type of explanation).

[BallHawk]

Funny, when guys like T.O. or Chad Johnson express their opinions on their team it's because they can't "keep their mouth shut."

When Favre does the same thing it's considering being "honest."

Double standard, anyone?

[gex]

People on Favre's side tend to agree that both sides did not handle this the right way, while TT supporters tend to blame Favre and think that TT is completly innocent.
They both messed up, probably TT more than Favre but thats just my opinion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

They both messed up, probably TT more than Favre but thats just my opinion.

So, what did Thompson do wrong?

[cpk1994]

People on Favre's side tend to agree that both sides did not handle this the right way, while TT supporters tend to blame Favre and think that TT is completly innocent.
:bs2: Exhibit A: Woody, Merlin, Leaper, and Partial.

[sheepshead]

Funny, when guys like T.O. or Chad Johnson express their opinions on their team it's because they can't "keep their mouth shut."

When Favre does the same thing it's considering being "honest."

Double standard, anyone?

interesting point

[cpk1994]

They both messed up, probably TT more than Favre but thats just my opinion.

So, what did Thompson do wrong?According to all Favre ass kissers, didn't cave in and give him the starter job back.

[Bossman641]

They both messed up, probably TT more than Favre but thats just my opinion.

So, what did Thompson do wrong?

He should have called his house everyday and begged him to come back. TT should have wrote Brett flirty little notes and showered him with gifts. Haven't you ever heard of courtship HW?

They never should have promoted Rodgers or given him any inkling that he would be the starter this year. In minicamp they should have had Rodgers practice carrying a clipboard because that would be his job again this year. They should have never updated the depth chart but instead should have left it as follows.

1. Brett Favre *
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Brian Brohm
* Upon his unretirement

TT and MM should have put up a cardboard cutout of Brett in the locker room, or at least a Fathead, so that the team never forgot about their star QB, and so that they would have always known that Favre would return.

At the least, minicamp could have been moved to Kiln, MS so Favre would have been able to observe what he was missing.

[Pacopete4]

I think, just like any team should, they should wait to get in camp if its an unproven starter, and then make their decision.... so just cuz Rodgers is a first rounder and been here for 3 years, he is our best QB? we didnt even see what Brohm or Flynn had yet... let alone the possibility of Favre coming back

[gex]

See there you go.
Cmon your grown-ups , if you really think that both sides did not handle this well then you lose all credibility.

[HarveyWallbangers]

See there you go.
Cmon your grown-ups , if you really think that both sides did not handle this well then you lose all credibility.

What did Thompson do wrong?

[HarveyWallbangers]

See there you go.
Cmon your grown-ups , if you really think that both sides did not handle this well then you lose all credibility.

Speaking of grownups:


Fuck you Shadow , I'm tired of you and other posters dumping on the man for fucking changing his mind. Its not an unspeekable act. It's fucking a human trait that many pro athletes have done before. Not that you can remember, but you have changed your mind many a times in your lifetime.

[gex]

See there you go.
Cmon your grown-ups , if you really think that both sides did not handle this well then you lose all credibility.

Speaking of grownups:


Fuck you Shadow , I'm tired of you and other posters dumping on the man for fucking changing his mind. Its not an unspeekable act. It's fucking a human trait that many pro athletes have done before. Not that you can remember, but you have changed your mind many a times in your lifetime.

Fuck you Harv, he inderectly called me Tank in the post before that. next time try digging a little deeper.

[Zool]

Yeah Harv...grow up would you. Fuck

[HarveyWallbangers]

Fuck you Harv, he inderectly called me Tank in the post before that. next time try digging a little deeper.

Nice. Yeah, I can see where being called tank could hurt ones feelings.
:D

[HarveyWallbangers]

To be fair, it looks like you told him to "go suck TT's smooth ballsickles" first.

[gex]

It really did. :cry:

[Bossman641]

See there you go.
Cmon your grown-ups , if you really think that both sides did not handle this well then you lose all credibility.

Do I think the organization could have handled it better? Yes, but my only complaints with the organization arise from the previous week or 2.

Favre fucked it up all summer. He is the one who allowed Bus and his family to spread the flat out lies to the media. He could have ended it with a simple phone call. He chose to let it all linger, as part of the plan to gather public support.

Favre is the one who is airing dirty laundry. You didn't see the organization leaking info about Favre unretiring and retiring back in March. You don't see the organization leaking info from conversations with Brett.

The only thing the organization is guilty of is moving on from a player who retired and then wasn't able to commit again until late July. What is the crime in that? Nothing. I hate Favre and his fans' attitude that the organization should have seen this coming and should have planned for it. How are you ever supposed to get out of the Brett Favre shadow when you have to be worried about catering to a retired player?

Favre's entire argument is about how he feels. The organization's is fact and a decision to move on.

[sharpe1027]

People on Favre's side tend to agree that both sides did not handle this the right way, while TT supporters tend to blame Favre and think that TT is completly innocent.

Maybe in bizarro world. 8-)

[Freak Out]

The Pack was a field goal away in OT from the Super Bowl last year, they have 2 good QB's under contract, Favre already has stated he would compete ARod for the job, why not let them battle it out? They could make it to the Super Bowl with both. The whole thing has become nothing but a pissing contest. It tarnishes Favre's legacy and makes TT look foolish. TT and M3 should get everyone to pull together and they could have a Super Bowl caliber team.Becuase Favre threw the orginizatyion under the bus and during said interview flat out refused to compete. That was after he retired, unretired, retired and unretired again. And they are supposed to give in to him all of a sudden becuase he says he will compete? I wouldn't give him the time of day.

Glad your not the GB GM then. It does not matter at this point if he retired, unretired and then fucked a goat. He wants to play. Reinstated him and tell him to report to camp...if the Packers don't want him then trade him or release him.....even if it's to the evil Vikings. Call Favre a cry baby all you want but this has gone Granny Raider bush league with all the "you can't compete get used to holding a clipboard" BS.

[gex]

The Pack was a field goal away in OT from the Super Bowl last year, they have 2 good QB's under contract, Favre already has stated he would compete ARod for the job, why not let them battle it out? They could make it to the Super Bowl with both. The whole thing has become nothing but a pissing contest. It tarnishes Favre's legacy and makes TT look foolish. TT and M3 should get everyone to pull together and they could have a Super Bowl caliber team.Becuase Favre threw the orginizatyion under the bus and during said interview flat out refused to compete. That was after he retired, unretired, retired and unretired again. And they are supposed to give in to him all of a sudden becuase he says he will compete? I wouldn't give him the time of day.

Glad your not the GB GM then. It does not matter at this point if he retired, unretired and then fucked a goat. He wants to play. Reinstated him and tell him to report to camp...if the Packers don't want him then trade him or release him.....even if it's to the evil Vikings. Call Favre a cry baby all you want but this has gone Granny Raider bush league with all the "you can't compete get used to holding a clipboard" BS.

Very true, it really has become a pissing match and it should be" just report to camp, compete, then we all come to some sort of conclusion(starter, trade, release).
Brett Favre(last years team MVP) as a back-up is a joke.

[sharpe1027]

Glad your not the GB GM then. It does not matter at this point if he retired, unretired and then fucked a goat. He wants to play. Reinstated him and tell him to report to camp...if the Packers don't want him then trade him or release him.....even if it's to the evil Vikings. Call Favre a cry baby all you want but this has gone Granny Raider bush league with all the "you can't compete get used to holding a clipboard" BS.

There is no doubt they told him he was not going to come in and be given the starter role. Nobody said he couldn't compete for it. Maybe that was their intent, maybe it wasn't. Either way, Favre had one and only one conversation with the Packers about seriously coming back and he immediately asked for a release. Before he did it there were alot of mudslinging from his side, which he did zero to refute. Favre's actions make me think he doesn't want to play for the Packers.

[Bretsky]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

With that being said, I don't think either side is being fully honest and both sides are to blame.

:!: :bclap:

I TRUST NEITHER; but TT knows how to be effective with the media. Favre has neve had that skill.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I TRUST NEITHER; but TT knows how to be effective with the media. Favre has neve had that skill.

I don't believe this at all. He is what he is. There's no sinister genius behind all this using the media to orchestrate every move.

[Bretsky]

I TRUST NEITHER; but TT knows how to be effective with the media. Favre has neve had that skill.

I don't believe this at all. He is what he is. There's no sinister genius behind all this using the media to orchestrate every move.

We agree to disagree; TT is sharp. Rarely discusses much but when he does it has purpose and it's effective.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Do I trust the guy who dodges answering questions better than a politician or do I trust the man whose brutal honesty is often what gets him into trouble?

Favre has not been brutally honest, just brutal. Well, he has been open, but that's not the same as honest.

I guess I am still pissed about his taking TT's joke about getting fired and twisting into something completely different. that was dishonest.

Kinda like the team issued cell phone ! TT never denied that either until this weekend and he never fully denied the firing quote he just said maybe Brett misunderstood and then wouldn't answer anymore questions about it. You can be pissed at Brett for lots of things but this wouldn't be one of them in my book.

The "Team issued cellphones" bit was a minor detail related to the Packers' tampering charges against MN. Apparently someone in the media got it wrong, started a rumor. What the hell, is TT now responsible for debunking mistakes in the media? I saw him asked about it at one news conference, and he said he's not aware of any team-issued phones. What more do you want from him?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Thompson has made plenty of mistakes as GM (O'Dwyer/Klemm, Javon, Harrell, etc.), but has had more hits than misses (Jennings, Grant, Woodson, Pickett, etc.). He's built a good team. Here are my thoughts about Thompson:

1) I don't believe Thompson had it out for Brett from the start.
2) I do believe that Thompson felt he had to get an heir apparent for Brett. With Brett's annual retirement circus, I believe Thompson thought he'd need to replace Brett within 3 years.
3) I do believe Thompson fundamentally believes in rebuilding through the draft. He's not adverse to FAs, but it's not how he prefers to build the team. After 2005, I believe Thompson knew he had to blow the team up, but he felt Brett could be a good bridge to Aaron Rodgers.
4) I do believe Thompson was genuinely interested in acquiring Randy Moss, but only for the compensation he determined was prudent. I believe he felt he had a deal for Moss completed, but it didn't work out.
5) I do believe Thompson was just fine with bringing back Brett for another year, but at some point this offseason Thompson determined that codding Brett was no longer in the team's best interests. The team moved on.
6) I don't believe there's anything sinister about Thompson.
7) I do believe Thompson is cut from the Ron Wolf mold. He's not interested in being a media darling. He's all football, he believes in his philosophy, and he doesn't think any one player is above the team.

I also don't believe Brett is a bad guy. I think he saw some of the moves that Thompson made and misconstrued them. #2 and #3 above probably made him feel like he was being pushed out the door. #4 made him feel disrespected. #5 made him feel unwanted. That's fine. The problem is that I don't think Thompson would have done anything differently if somebody else had been the QB. It was nothing against Brett, but Brett took a lot of it personally. Thompson probably felt like Brett should have kept his disappointment in some of his roster moves private, but I don't think Thompson has the type of ego that it overly bothered him.

[falco]

Thompson has made plenty of mistakes as GM (O'Dwyer/Klemm, Javon, Harrell, etc.), but has had more hits than misses (Jennings, Grant, Woodson, Pickett, etc.). He's built a good team. Here are my thoughts about Thompson:

1) I don't believe Thompson had it out for Brett from the start.
2) I do believe that Thompson felt he had to get an heir apparent for Brett. With Brett's annual retirement circus, I believe Thompson thought he'd need to replace Brett within 3 years.
3) I do believe Thompson fundamentally believes in rebuilding through the draft. He's not adverse to FAs, but it's not how he prefers to build the team. After 2005, I believe Thompson knew he had to blow the team up, but he felt Brett could be a good bridge to Aaron Rodgers.
4) I do believe Thompson was genuinely interested in acquiring Randy Moss, but only for the compensation he determined was prudent. I believe he felt he had a deal for Moss completed, but it didn't work out.
5) I do believe Thompson was just fine with bringing back Brett for another year, but at some point this offseason Thompson determined that codding Brett was no longer in the team's best interests. The team moved on.
6) I don't believe there's anything sinister about Thompson.
7) I do believe Thompson is cut from the Ron Wolf mold. He's not interested in being a media darling. He's all football, he believes in his philosophy, and he doesn't think any one player is above the team.

I also don't believe Brett is a bad guy. I think he saw some of the moves that Thompson made and misconstrued them. #2 and #3 above probably made him feel like he was being pushed out the door. #4 made him feel disrespected. #5 made him feel unwanted. That's fine. The problem is that I don't think Thompson would have done anything differently if somebody else had been the QB. It was nothing against Brett, but Brett took a lot of it personally. Thompson probably felt like Brett should have kept his disappointment in some of his roster moves private, but I don't think Thompson has the type of ego that it overly bothered him.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[BallHawk]

What'd he do wrong with Javon?

[HarveyWallbangers]

What'd he do wrong with Javon?

I didn't have a problem at the time, but I think his philosophy changed a bit after that. Now, he's really sincere about rewarding his own. Screw the hard-line about waiting until the last year of a guy's contract (see Driver twice, Al, and others). I think it had done wonders for team chemistry/morale. I also think it's the right way to go... for a team that's not heavy into the FA game (where the salary cap is a big problem).