A QUESTION TO SOLICIT HONEST AND STRAIGHT FOWARD ANSWERS...

[MOBB DEEP]

the one thing that ive noticed since i started posting on packer forums over 3 years ago is that 99% of posters are pretty much set in their stance on major topics. the favre debacle is one such topic. at this point no one's gonna be swayed to the "other side" by a poster's well thought out, eloquent posts (in reality it's a waste of time if u REALLY think about it people. altho it was quite CRASS a poster back on JSO once said that debating on a forum is akin to participatin in the special olympics; even if u win u're still a retard - honestly it hurt my soul a lil to say that)

my goal/simple question may have already been reached/answered in one way or anothr; but this thread is meant to condense poster's thoughts and feelings on a concrete level.

never mind all the deep analysis because NO ONE here is a part of the inner circle up in title town and have all the info needed to make the critical judgements we tend to make [posters jus speculate, pontificate, imagine, feel, hope, want, KNOW (shadow and texaspackerbacker - lol), and conjecture]

ok, here goes......

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

honestly; not a bunch of subjectivity and bashing, recalling of #4's bad games or of arods' and TTs respective poise and feelings

again, as a FAN of the pack or fball in general, WHAT REAL NEGATIVE WOULD THER BE IF PEOPLE EMMULATED JESUS AND FORGAVE ONE ANOTHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF PACKER NATION????

go.....

[oregonpackfan]

The main negative I would see if Favre lined up over center this fall is that the Packers would probably lose Aaron Rodgers at the end of the season.

Having sat on the bench for the past 3 years with this year being the 4th, I could not blame Rodgers demanding a trade to play elsewhere.

Favre may or may not come back for the 2009 season, but Rodgers would be gone, IMO.

[cpk1994]

the one thing that ive noticed since i started posting on packer forums over 3 years ago is that 99% of posters are pretty much set in their stance on major topics. the favre debacle is one such topic. at this point no one's gonna be swayed to the "other side" by a poster's well thought out, eloquent posts (in reality it's a waste of time if u REALLY think about it people. altho it was quite CRASS a poster back on JSO once said that debating on a forum is akin to participatin in the special olympics; even if u win u're still a retard - honestly it hurt my soul a lil to say that)

my goal/simple question may have already been reached/answered in one way or anothr; but this thread is meant to condense poster's thoughts and feelings on a concrete level.

never mind all the deep analysis because NO ONE here is a part of the inner circle up in title town and have all the info needed to make the critical judgements we tend to make [posters jus speculate, pontificate, imagine, feel, hope, want, KNOW (shadow and texaspackerbacker - lol), and conjecture]

ok, here goes......

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

honestly; not a bunch of subjectivity and bashing, recalling of #4's bad games or of arods' and TTs respective poise and feelings

again, as a FAN of the pack or fball in general, WHAT REAL NEGATIVE WOULD THER BE IF PEOPLE EMMULATED JESUS AND FORGAVE ONE ANOTHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF PACKER NATION????

go.....There is no negative to him being under center on MNF. The problem is having Favre under center now really sets a bad precident in the locker room. If Favre is under center opening night, that means you can lie, throw the orginization under the bus, skip all team activities, do what ever you want, not to mention that this player tells others to honor their contract and not hold himself to the same standard and you will be given your job no questions asked. It sends a bad message to the rest of the team and shows one player is above the rest of them. McCarthy would be undermining his own autority and contining demand for accountability by allowing Brett to be the starter now.

[footballfever]

You'd be asking a man (TT) and an organizatioin (Packers) to surrender all their philosophies and principles for the sake of one selfish crybaby (Favre). I know this wasn't supposed to be subjective or biased, but look at Favre. He's become the typical 2 year old in a grocery store kicking and screaming, as a child of a family of now 80 you just can't enable that kind of behavior. And to hell with the average Packer fan that has no grip on reality and wants to protest in front of Lambeau with picket signs. What the fuck is this world really coming too? Too bad that anthrax scientist did himself in, we could have forwarded some of those peoples addresses to him! :twisted:

[MJZiggy]

It's not about forgiveness, MD. While I have my opinions on the way he's been acting, the moment a solution is reached it will blow over. Should he wind up back with the Packers, I will worry about what happens to Rodgers and the wisdom of threatening our relationship with him (which is based in the future, not the past). I will also worry about the Dallas game and that last Bears game, and should we get into the playoffs, I will worry a lot.

[sheepshead]

The unknown here, at least to us, it what MM and TT see in ARod. Obviously they believe he is ready to step in and lead this team. We dont have the benefit of all the practice time and game film that these guys have. While we can have an opinion, we don't have their information per se.

They think it's time to let the better guy start under center Sept 8.

[MOBB DEEP]

the one thing that ive noticed since i started posting on packer forums over 3 years ago is that 99% of posters are pretty much set in their stance on major topics. the favre debacle is one such topic. at this point no one's gonna be swayed to the "other side" by a poster's well thought out, eloquent posts (in reality it's a waste of time if u REALLY think about it people. altho it was quite CRASS a poster back on JSO once said that debating on a forum is akin to participatin in the special olympics; even if u win u're still a retard - honestly it hurt my soul a lil to say that)

my goal/simple question may have already been reached/answered in one way or anothr; but this thread is meant to condense poster's thoughts and feelings on a concrete level.

never mind all the deep analysis because NO ONE here is a part of the inner circle up in title town and have all the info needed to make the critical judgements we tend to make [posters jus speculate, pontificate, imagine, feel, hope, want, KNOW (shadow and texaspackerbacker - lol), and conjecture]

ok, here goes......

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

honestly; not a bunch of subjectivity and bashing, recalling of #4's bad games or of arods' and TTs respective poise and feelings

again, as a FAN of the pack or fball in general, WHAT REAL NEGATIVE WOULD THER BE IF PEOPLE EMMULATED JESUS AND FORGAVE ONE ANOTHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF PACKER NATION????

go.....There is no negative to him being under center on MNF. The problem is having Favre under center now really sets a bad precident in the locker room. If Favre is under center opening night, that means you can lie, throw the orginization under the bus, skip all team activities, do what ever you want, not to mention that this player tells others to honor their contract and not hold himself to the same standard and you will be given your job no questions asked. It sends a bad message to the rest of the team and shows one player is above the rest of them. McCarthy would be undermining his own autority and contining demand for accountability by allowing Brett to be the starter now.


i understand what u mean by the cry baby statement (altho i thinks it's jus the diva status thats bn afforded him, ala kobe bryant and many other privileged athletes, that caused him to think he was indispensible).

because he does have free will i guess we cant give him a pass b/c he didnt spoil himself, it was the media etc. but we're all fallable so if his biggest shortcoming is arrogance (it probably isnt his biggest in private) then wouldnt it be a step in the rt direction if he was FORCED to compete for the job? that would humble him and show the other guys that he has to at least re-earn the PRIVLILEGE of manning the ship in GB?

to be honest the ONLY neg i see is POSSIBLY losing Arod. but y would he leave? EVERYONE knws #4 has 1 or 2 years left. go where? im sure he realizes GB is a great palce to be and is close enuff to MM/TT to be easily coaxed to be a lil more patient (he's NOT steve young - i dont think)

[bobblehead]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?

[MOBB DEEP]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?


ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

[pbmax]

I do not agree with your suspicions about posters in general. Certainly, much is written that is less than serious, emotional and flawed logically. But there is a great deal of reasoned thinking here and much good information. There are precious few sites out there that can get to the details of the CBA and salary cap info like this forum can thanks to posters like Patler.

And at least one poster has played college ball and can do a reasonable job of identifying the good, bad and ugly of line play.

That said, you wanted a reasoned and informed look at the negative of Favre's return. Here is Super Bowl winning Tony Dungy on why the Alpha Dog question is important, and why the Packers cannot, without a cost, let Favre choose the timing of his return after a retirement:

© 2008 Journal Sentinel, Inc.
http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/07/18/dungy-on-brett-favre.aspx


Dungy on Brett Favre
By Don Walker
Friday, Jul 18 2008, 12:46 PM

Tony Dungy, the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts, was on WMVP's (1000-AM) "Waddle and Silvy," in Chicago this morning and had a few interesting comments about Brett Favre.

Silvy: "Thoughts on Brett Favre and the Packers?"

Dungy: "It's really too bad, and you've seen it happen in a lot of cases. It's not really a first, but it's a first for it to be out in public like this. You think back to Montana and Rice and Ronnie Lott, and some of those great players, that ended up going to other teams. But they sat down, they made a decision, and they all came out on the same page: Hey, he still wants to play, we have to move in another direction, and here's what we're going to do. And then the guy's moved on. But I think here, it played out as he's going to retire, okay we're set to go, we've got to tailor our salary cap, our offense, our everything to Aaron Rodgers, we've worked on him for four months, and now when he wants to come back....that's difficult for the player and the team, and you just hope it has a good resolution."

Silvy: "Doesn't a team need to call an audible when you have a great player that wants to return?"

Dungy: "It's not that easy to do. I put myself in the coach's position, if Peyton had come to me in February and said, 'Hey, I'm retiring,' my whole emphasis to the team for the next four months would be, 'We can't regret not having Peyton Manning, we can't look back, we've got to win, here's what we're going to do on offense now, we're going to do everything that fits Jim Sorgi, we're going to move on, and we can't have the white elephant of Peyton Manning in the back of our heads.' And now, you come back, and well, he is going to be there, maybe he's going to be there for a few weeks, maybe he's into it, maybe he's not. It's not as easy as you think, just to say 'Okay, let's have him come back.' It's a tough situation for both sides, and by the same token, you've got one of the greatest players in the history of your franchise that you do want to take care of, so it's probably a no-win situation right now."

[Pugger]

I think the crux of this problem is the fact that Brett isn't 100% committed to football. If he REALLY wanted to play he would've told Murphy no and asked Goodell to reinstate him so he can come to GB and force TT's hand. The fact that he is considering taking The Offer tells me he isn't sure what he wants to do and THAT is why TT and company have moved forward. It didn't help his cause when he went on TV and blasted the organization either.

[MOBB DEEP]

It's not about forgiveness, MD. While I have my opinions on the way he's been acting, the moment a solution is reached it will blow over. Should he wind up back with the Packers, I will worry about what happens to Rodgers and the wisdom of threatening our relationship with him (which is based in the future, not the past). I will also worry about the Dallas game and that last Bears game, and should we get into the playoffs, I will worry a lot.

im EXTREMELY optimistic that arod will be a good one....but dont u think even he was surprised that #4 retired after the year he had? so for approx 2 1/2 months he was the starter (i hope MM/TT informed him they were expecting #4 to come back during the whole "flyn down to miss" scenario). and of course we all know it's a business (favre has learned lol) so like most of the vets say u gota have a strong stomach as a player

so ther we have it; the MAIN negs are arod might leave and 1 player may be perceived as being placed on a pedestal...

i dont think aaron would leave (he's a good dude)

and i think most of the players already view #4 as being "special" - shoot look at the media coverage, they wernt born yesterday (the love affair is OLD NEWS). remember Moss saying "let me get up and look at this; this brett favre here...!" ? CLASSIC

[MOBB DEEP]

I do not agree with your suspicions about posters in general. Certainly, much is written that is less than serious, emotional and flawed logically. But there is a great deal of reasoned thinking here and much good information. There are precious few sites out there that can get to the details of the CBA and salary cap info like this forum can thanks to posters like Patler.

And at least one poster has played college ball and can do a reasonable job of identifying the good, bad and ugly of line play.

That said, you wanted a reasoned and informed look at the negative of Favre's return. Here is Super Bowl winning Tony Dungy on why the Alpha Dog question is important, and why the Packers cannot, without a cost, let Favre choose the timing of his return after a retirement:

© 2008 Journal Sentinel, Inc.
http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/07/18/dungy-on-brett-favre.aspx


Dungy on Brett Favre
By Don Walker
Friday, Jul 18 2008, 12:46 PM

Tony Dungy, the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts, was on WMVP's (1000-AM) "Waddle and Silvy," in Chicago this morning and had a few interesting comments about Brett Favre.

Silvy: "Thoughts on Brett Favre and the Packers?"

Dungy: "It's really too bad, and you've seen it happen in a lot of cases. It's not really a first, but it's a first for it to be out in public like this. You think back to Montana and Rice and Ronnie Lott, and some of those great players, that ended up going to other teams. But they sat down, they made a decision, and they all came out on the same page: Hey, he still wants to play, we have to move in another direction, and here's what we're going to do. And then the guy's moved on. But I think here, it played out as he's going to retire, okay we're set to go, we've got to tailor our salary cap, our offense, our everything to Aaron Rodgers, we've worked on him for four months, and now when he wants to come back....that's difficult for the player and the team, and you just hope it has a good resolution."

Silvy: "Doesn't a team need to call an audible when you have a great player that wants to return?"

Dungy: "It's not that easy to do. I put myself in the coach's position, if Peyton had come to me in February and said, 'Hey, I'm retiring,' my whole emphasis to the team for the next four months would be, 'We can't regret not having Peyton Manning, we can't look back, we've got to win, here's what we're going to do on offense now, we're going to do everything that fits Jim Sorgi, we're going to move on, and we can't have the white elephant of Peyton Manning in the back of our heads.' And now, you come back, and well, he is going to be there, maybe he's going to be there for a few weeks, maybe he's into it, maybe he's not. It's not as easy as you think, just to say 'Okay, let's have him come back.' It's a tough situation for both sides, and by the same token, you've got one of the greatest players in the history of your franchise that you do want to take care of, so it's probably a no-win situation right now."

i can dig that.....so favre fans need to realize that its not as simple as "come on back" its a mindset that a team/mgmt takes and uncertainty is frustrating

[Zool]

As others have stated, it basically says that 1 player is more important than the organization as a whole. This one players should be allowed to pick and choose when he will come and go on the team as he sees fit. I guess I'm more of the ilk that the ant mound cannot survive without each member being thought of as equal.

I also don't like all the negatives he's been saying to the media about Thompson, the o-line and the WR core. He can say "its not about the guys we have, its about the guys we could have had," but that in my mind is the same as saying the guys we have aren't good enough.

[boiga]

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

The real risk here is that Favre picks this year for his skills to decline dramatically while the insult from the demotion would cause Rodgers to seek a trade. To have Favre start again would give us the minor short term benefit of the upgrade from Rodgers to Favre, while potentially risking the long term viability of the entire team should we be left without a quarterback next season.

Also, the transition to a post Favre Packers had to occur sometime. This season, the rest of the team is high enough caliber that we don't need to depend on the Favre of old pulling miracles out of his ass to win us games. We learned in 2005 that Favre can't support the team without any help. Now we have a team that can support the QB until he learns the ropes. That opportunity may not be here next year. We could lose Al and Chuck, our defense could be in shambles, and throwing in an inexperienced QB would be sacrificing him to the wolves.

Rodgers has the supporting cast this year to take us deep in the playoffs. That means that we don't NEED Favre this year like we did the last ten. They planned for a successful transition and to waste that planning might make it another 10 years or more before we could rebuild this team again.

Also, it would set the following bad precedents:
1. A star player can cow management by making a fuss.
2. A player's opinion will matter more than the coaches.
3. A player can get away with bad mouthing his organization without repercussions.
4. Working hard in the OTA's is a waste of effort if you have enough pull.
5. The player's desire matters more than the needs of the team.

[Fritz]

What they said.

[DonHutson]

Favre obviously has no respect for Thompson. His pining for Steve Mariucci suggests he doesn't have enough respect for McCarthy either, or else he just prefers to be babied rather than be held accountable. Favre whined about his inexperienced WR's last season and after they stepped up big time, he's still pining for Randy Moss. Favre expected to walk in the door and be the starter, whenever and under whatever conditions it pleased him to do so. Favre has threatened, almost gleefully, to turn training camp into a circus to get his way which doesn't say a lot for his focus on team chemistry.

Could it be so simple that Thompson and McCarthy would like the leader of the team to act like he's part of the team?

Could it be as easy as they think Rodgers talent and chemistry trumps Favre's superior talent and me first attitude?

Could it be that they want to continue building a consistent winner without the team "leader" bitching and complaining that they aren't going all in for one Favre Super Bowl run (even though their approach gave Favre his Super Bowl run anyway)?

This has nothing to do with Rodgers potentially leaving, or Rodgers being Ted's pet project, and everything to do with Favre flushing his leadership credentials down the toilet and the professional assessment on Ted and Mike's part that Rodgers will be pretty damn good.

A couple of interesting quotes from the new Packer yearbook (written pre-Favre un-re-un-retiring):

"You learn the importance of having everybody on the same page, the importance of everbody looking out for the best interests of the team as a whole as opposed to individuals."
- Mark Murphy, Packer CEO

"I think the people who truly get football and understand the true team concept and what makes a successful team, those are the people who can definitely check their egos at the door. Both Ted and Mike are very comfortable in their own skin, so when it comes to their professional life, they don't need to be patted on the back or consistently told they're doing a great job. They both have a natural feel for doing what is right."
- John Schneider, Dir. of Football Operations

I think there is something in Brett's prima donna sense of entitlement that is particularly grating to Thompson, McCarthy, and Murphy. They simply don't want it on their team anymore. My belief is that they feel the difference in talent between Favre and Rodgers is no longer great enough to sacrifice team chemistry and their plans on how the team should be built and how it should operate.

[bobblehead]

thanks don, I didn't feel like typing that much, but you summed it up about as well as it can be summed up.

[bobblehead]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?


ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

If he did everything you said, AND agreed to be the backup I would welcome him back. AND as long as he stayed true to that and was not a distraction I would be happy he was on my team. More than likely at some point this season Arod will miss a game with injury and I would be happy to have favre around to fill in. NOT as the starter for all the reasons Don cited above.

[MOBB DEEP]

I think the crux of this problem is the fact that Brett isn't 100% committed to football. If he REALLY wanted to play he would've told Murphy no and asked Goodell to reinstate him so he can come to GB and force TT's hand. The fact that he is considering taking The Offer tells me he isn't sure what he wants to do and THAT is why TT and company have moved forward. It didn't help his cause when he went on TV and blasted the organization either.


didnt he BLAST tt?? tt aint my cousin so i dont feel sorry for him. some posters act like favre has acutally offended THEM

[MOBB DEEP]

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

The real risk here is that Favre picks this year for his skills to decline dramatically while the insult from the demotion would cause Rodgers to seek a trade. To have Favre start again would give us the minor short term benefit of the upgrade from Rodgers to Favre, while potentially risking the long term viability of the entire team should we be left without a quarterback next season.

Also, the transition to a post Favre Packers had to occur sometime. This season, the rest of the team is high enough caliber that we don't need to depend on the Favre of old pulling miracles out of his ass to win us games. We learned in 2005 that Favre can't support the team without any help. Now we have a team that can support the QB until he learns the ropes. That opportunity may not be here next year. We could lose Al and Chuck, our defense could be in shambles, and throwing in an inexperienced QB would be sacrificing him to the wolves.

Rodgers has the supporting cast this year to take us deep in the playoffs. That means that we don't NEED Favre this year like we did the last ten. They planned for a successful transition and to waste that planning might make it another 10 years or more before we could rebuild this team again.

Also, it would set the following bad precedents:
1. A star player can cow management by making a fuss.
2. A player's opinion will matter more than the coaches.
3. A player can get away with bad mouthing his organization without repercussions.
4. Working hard in the OTA's is a waste of effort if you have enough pull.
5. The player's desire matters more than the needs of the team.


GREAT point about the way the team is currently constructed willl make arods transition a good 1. i believe in him for some reason

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

[MOBB DEEP]

Favre obviously has no respect for Thompson. His pining for Steve Mariucci suggests he doesn't have enough respect for McCarthy either, or else he just prefers to be babied rather than be held accountable. Favre whined about his inexperienced WR's last season and after they stepped up big time, he's still pining for Randy Moss. Favre expected to walk in the door and be the starter, whenever and under whatever conditions it pleased him to do so. Favre has threatened, almost gleefully, to turn training camp into a circus to get his way which doesn't say a lot for his focus on team chemistry.

Could it be so simple that Thompson and McCarthy would like the leader of the team to act like he's part of the team?

Could it be as easy as they think Rodgers talent and chemistry trumps Favre's superior talent and me first attitude?

Could it be that they want to continue building a consistent winner without the team "leader" bitching and complaining that they aren't going all in for one Favre Super Bowl run (even though their approach gave Favre his Super Bowl run anyway)?

This has nothing to do with Rodgers potentially leaving, or Rodgers being Ted's pet project, and everything to do with Favre flushing his leadership credentials down the toilet and the professional assessment on Ted and Mike's part that Rodgers will be pretty damn good.

A couple of interesting quotes from the new Packer yearbook (written pre-Favre un-re-un-retiring):

"You learn the importance of having everybody on the same page, the importance of everbody looking out for the best interests of the team as a whole as opposed to individuals."
- Mark Murphy, Packer CEO

"I think the people who truly get football and understand the true team concept and what makes a successful team, those are the people who can definitely check their egos at the door. Both Ted and Mike are very comfortable in their own skin, so when it comes to their professional life, they don't need to be patted on the back or consistently told they're doing a great job. They both have a natural feel for doing what is right."
- John Schneider, Dir. of Football Operations

I think there is something in Brett's prima donna sense of entitlement that is particularly grating to Thompson, McCarthy, and Murphy. They simply don't want it on their team anymore. My belief is that they feel the difference in talent between Favre and Rodgers is no longer great enough to sacrifice team chemistry and their plans on how the team should be built and how it should operate.


good post

[boiga]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

[MOBB DEEP]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?


ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

If he did everything you said, AND agreed to be the backup I would welcome him back. AND as long as he stayed true to that and was not a distraction I would be happy he was on my team. More than likely at some point this season Arod will miss a game with injury and I would be happy to have favre around to fill in. NOT as the starter for all the reasons Don cited above.


not to grill you but im curious about your ratiuonale. are u sayn that arod is better than #4 rt now so he should start or b/c favre left arod shoud start? is it to teach #4 a lesson or give team best chance to win?

straght forward question

[MOBB DEEP]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.


how long u been a fan?

i was actually a bears fan during sweetnesses era. tried to play like him...am i banned now?

[packinpatland]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

OK then....move on............release him!

[Maxie the Taxi]

What's wrong is your assumption that Favre's skills haven't diminished to the point that he's no longer effective.

Unless you believe that he's immune to the ravages of age, at some point his skills are going to diminish and it could happen suddenly, without warning.

You're probably too young to remember the Milwaukee Braves' all-time great left-hander, Warren Spahn. In 1963 at the age of 42 Spahnnie had one of his best seasons with the Braves. He went 23-7 and went to the All-Star game.

However, the very next year he went 6-13 with an ERA of 5.29. It was miserable to watch and even more miserable to hear loyal Braves fans around you in the stands boo the man you once idolized for more than a decade. You couldn't boo along with them, all you could do was turn your head. Spahnnie didn't hear the boos and he didn't retire.

The next year the Braves traded Spahn -- one of the most beloved Braves ever -- to the Mets where he went 4-12. When the Mets gave up on him, he went to San Francisco and went 3-4.

Watching an unretired Hall of Famer's skills diminish before thousands of fans is a painful experience. Maybe not for the Hall of Famer. But for one fan in particular. Believe me.

If Favre came back and failed...failed miserably like Spahn...costing the Packers their season and maybe their future, would he call a press conference, apologize to the fans and to the Packers? Would he return his $12-million salary saying "it's not the money?" Or would he take the money and run back to Kiln, finally with the peace of mind in knowing that retiring is, at last, the wise thing to do?

The Packers owe Favre nothing. The fans owe Favre nothing. He's made a wonderful living playing the game he loves in a city that loves(ed) him. It's time for all of us to move on. It's been a great run, but it's OVER!!

[oregonpackfan]

Maxie,

I grew up as a boy idolizing Warren Spahn. You make some valid points about the pain of watching a former outstanding player not being able to accept his athletic mortality.

It was truly sad to see a great pitcher like Spahn embarrass himself on the field.

[Gunakor]

the one thing that ive noticed since i started posting on packer forums over 3 years ago is that 99% of posters are pretty much set in their stance on major topics. the favre debacle is one such topic. at this point no one's gonna be swayed to the "other side" by a poster's well thought out, eloquent posts (in reality it's a waste of time if u REALLY think about it people. altho it was quite CRASS a poster back on JSO once said that debating on a forum is akin to participatin in the special olympics; even if u win u're still a retard - honestly it hurt my soul a lil to say that)

my goal/simple question may have already been reached/answered in one way or anothr; but this thread is meant to condense poster's thoughts and feelings on a concrete level.

never mind all the deep analysis because NO ONE here is a part of the inner circle up in title town and have all the info needed to make the critical judgements we tend to make [posters jus speculate, pontificate, imagine, feel, hope, want, KNOW (shadow and texaspackerbacker - lol), and conjecture]

ok, here goes......

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

honestly; not a bunch of subjectivity and bashing, recalling of #4's bad games or of arods' and TTs respective poise and feelings

again, as a FAN of the pack or fball in general, WHAT REAL NEGATIVE WOULD THER BE IF PEOPLE EMMULATED JESUS AND FORGAVE ONE ANOTHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF PACKER NATION????

go.....


1) It would mean that TT lied to Rodgers. It means he went back on his committment made to his players.

2) It would set bad precedent. The team is bigger than any of it's players, and cannot cave in to thier demands no matter how iconic the player is. Cave into Favre, and pretty soon you have a handful of other players with demands too. This is where I'm at with the Grant deal as well.

3) It would set this team back another year. Unless you truly believe that Favre can get this team to a SB, which I don't. I have a decade of poor performances in January to back me up. Favre is one of the greatest regular season QB's I've ever seen, but he's not the guy that's gonna get it done in January anymore. Again, history supports me on this.

[boiga]

OK then....move on............release him!Like I said before, I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not deserve. Releasing him would be against the best interest of the Packers, so it's really a non-option.

[Gunakor]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

OK then....move on............release him!


The Packers own 3 years of his service yet. If they release him they get nothing in return for those years of service. Just because Favre doesn't fit into the team's plans for the future doesn't mean his contract is worthless. Even Favre's good buddy Mooch agrees with this one. PIP, this isn't about giving Favre what Favre wants. It's about Green Bay getting what Green Bay wants. It's about the team, not the player.

[bbbffl66]

OK then....move on............release him!Like I said before, I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not deserve. Releasing him would be against the best interest of the Packers, so it's really a non-option.

One of the reasons the 49ers were sucsessful for as long as they were was the way they took care of their players. Even when they traded Joe, it was to a playoff ready team The players wanted to play for DeBartolo because of the classiness(indictments not included :lol: ) of the organization. I believe a lot of players around the league are watching this right now. If the Packers act to "punish" Brett or say screw him he can rot, that will have a negative effect in player perception of Green Bay. Not that TT signs FA anyway, but Green Bay runs the risk of turning back into the Siberia of the NFL.

[Gunakor]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.


how long u been a fan?

i was actually a bears fan during sweetnesses era. tried to play like him...am i banned now?

I would hope your loyalties lie with the team you support, not it's players. Were you a Bears fan or a Payton fan? Are you a Packers fan or a Favre fan? I really want to know, not just from you but from a number of people, because many are suggesting the team screw itself over just so that one of it's former players can get his way. And that sickens me to know that supposed "Packer" fans could feel that way. No wonder our happy family has become so dysfunctional recently...

[Gunakor]

OK then....move on............release him!Like I said before, I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not deserve. Releasing him would be against the best interest of the Packers, so it's really a non-option.

One of the reasons the 49ers were sucsessful for as long as they were was the way they took care of their players. Even when they traded Joe, it was to a playoff ready team The players wanted to play for DeBartolo because of the classiness(indictments not included :lol: ) of the organization. I believe a lot of players around the league are watching this right now. If the Packers act to "punish" Brett or say screw him he can rot, that will have a negative effect in player perception of Green Bay. Not that TT signs FA anyway, but Green Bay runs the risk of turning back into the Siberia of the NFL.


TT tried to trade him to Tampa. Tampa is as playoff ready now as Kansas City was when Montana went there. I don't buy this arguement for one second.

This isn't about Favre wanting to go to a playoff ready team. It's about Favre wanting to stick it to Thompson and the Packers twice a year first, and making the playoffs second. I'm sure players are watching this one, but if they are really paying attention they'll see Favre is being an ass.

[boiga]

Hey, I never said that I wanted to screw the guy over. It's just that Favre's demands are unreasonable at this juncture. I'm all for trading the guy. He gets to play, we get a draft pick, everything works out.

But releasing Brett gives up something for nothing in return. That's not an option.

[MJZiggy]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

OK then....move on............release him!

He's a business asset. When you had your business going, if you had some pieces that were good but not your best and you decided not to use them, would you give them to your closest competition so they could use them to impress your clients?

[Gunakor]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?


ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

If he did everything you said, AND agreed to be the backup I would welcome him back. AND as long as he stayed true to that and was not a distraction I would be happy he was on my team. More than likely at some point this season Arod will miss a game with injury and I would be happy to have favre around to fill in. NOT as the starter for all the reasons Don cited above.


not to grill you but im curious about your ratiuonale. are u sayn that arod is better than #4 rt now so he should start or b/c favre left arod shoud start? is it to teach #4 a lesson or give team best chance to win?

straght forward question

It's neither. It's about committment. Rodgers was told he's the starter, he's prepared himself to be the starter, and the players around him have prepared themselves for him to be the starter. It's not about who's the better QB, and it's not about punishing Favre. It's about moving on, something we've committed ourselves to doing because Favre told us to. Twice.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maxie,

I grew up as a boy idolizing Warren Spahn. You make some valid points about the pain of watching a former outstanding player not being able to accept his athletic mortality.

It was truly sad to see a great pitcher like Spahn embarrass himself on the field.

We must be the same age because I lived through it too. The sad part is that most of the posters here are young and don't have a clue what we're talking about. Those fans that are demonstrating and cheering for Favre to come back don't realize how disturbing it will be if he comes back and "embarrasses himself." I wonder if...no, I know these same fans won't be cheering if that happens.

[MJZiggy]

I think the crux of this problem is the fact that Brett isn't 100% committed to football. If he REALLY wanted to play he would've told Murphy no and asked Goodell to reinstate him so he can come to GB and force TT's hand. The fact that he is considering taking The Offer tells me he isn't sure what he wants to do and THAT is why TT and company have moved forward. It didn't help his cause when he went on TV and blasted the organization either.


didnt he BLAST tt?? tt aint my cousin so i dont feel sorry for him. some posters act like favre has acutally offended THEM

That's because some folk see TT as more a representative of the team than an individual, so when Favre blasts TT, it's like he's blasting the team. I don't necessarily think that TT is representative of the team, but some of the stuff he's renting couch space under that bus for is downright stupid. Hey, here's a thought. What if we just remove the bus. Anyone got any keys or know how to hotwire a bus?

[Iron Mike]

You're probably too young to remember the Milwaukee Braves' all-time great left-hander, Warren Spahn. In 1963 at the age of 42 Spahnnie had one of his best seasons with the Braves. He went 23-7 and went to the All-Star game.

Well, seeing how I was two at the time and can't remember the Kennedy Assassination, I'll state that you are right. 8-)

[digitaldean]

If they forgave each other, nothing is negative. That should be expected and the adult thing to do.

But forgiveness should not automatically equate to Favre starting. I could expand on the reasons why, but I assume that it would be taken as more "subjective banter".

[DonHutson]

The sad part is that most of the posters here are young and don't have a clue what we're talking about. Those fans that are demonstrating and cheering for Favre to come back don't realize how disturbing it will be if he comes back and "embarrasses himself."

Age is no excuse. I don't personally remember Warren Spahn, but I was there in person at the Bradley Center to watch Washington Wizard Michael Jordan get abused by Tim Thomas one day. That was ugly.

I've commented on this before. I was proud of Brett for retiring when he did and being one of the few like Jim Brown or Barry Sanders to leave us wanting more. I can't really blame him for turning into one of the 99.999% of the other players that are compelled to ride themselves into the ground. That's his right. But the Packers aren't obligated to oblige him if they have better options, so Favre should go put on his Wizards jersey in some other locker room.

[cpk1994]

Favre obviously has no respect for Thompson. His pining for Steve Mariucci suggests he doesn't have enough respect for McCarthy either, or else he just prefers to be babied rather than be held accountable. Of course he prefers to be babied and allowed to do whatever he wants. This was first shown when he threatened to retire if Sherman was canned. It was also shown by his "Im not gonna change" comments when he was in the middle of throwing 29 INT's. Thats why he loved Sherman as a coach. Sherman let him do whatever he wanted and made all the excuses for him. McCarthy comes in, holds him accountable and now he can't handle it. He can't stand the fact that his coach no longer stands in his press conferences and says "Well, the ball slipped out of his hands", or "Well, he has a broken thumb", to explain away his INTS.