No Helmet Law?

[oregonpackfan]

While on a family reunion in Wisconsin last week, I noticed that about 3/4ths of the motorcylists were driving around not wearing helmets. My Wisconsin relatives advised me the helmet law was repealed years ago. Oregon is a state where helmets are mandatory for motorcycle users.

Years ago, the vice-principal of my elementary school was involved in a car-bicycle accident. A car went through a stop sign and she crashed into the car. She was thrown from her bicycle and her head crashed into the left support beam holding the car's windshield in place.

Fortunately, she was wearing a helmet. She did suffer a broken leg, and scratches, but did not receive a head or neck injury. The paramedics fastened her head and still-attached helmet to a wooden backboard.

At the hospital, the attending physician pointed to the crack down the front of her bike helmet and stated the helmet probably saved her life. A blow that hard on her exposed skull may have killed her.

Months later, we had a school assembly. This woman talked to the students about her experience and showed her helmet with the extended crack. She put that helmet on the floor and placed her brand new helmet next to it. The new helmet was the exact model and make of the original helmet.

She then brought out a hammer, and with full force, struck the new helmet. Despite the blow from the hammer, the new helmet did not crack!

Picking up both helmets, she said, "The blow to my head in my accident with a care was stronger than the blow to the new helmet from my hammer. Do you really want to ride your bikes while not wearing a helmet?"

The audience was very quiet. I'm a cyclist myself and I was impressed.

Most motorcycle helmets have harder shells and more padding than a bicycle helmet. I can't imagine riding a motorcycle while not wearing a helmet.

[texaspackerbacker]

Many years ago--although I think you're old enough to remember if you were in Wisconsin at the time, hundreds, maybe thousands of motorcyclists went to Madison and rode round and round the Capitol Square advocating repeal (or maybe it was not passing in the first place) the motorcycle helmet law.

This was a shining example of the people standing up to intrusive government. I have almost always worn a helmet, but I absolutely HATE the idea of any damn nanny-state government telling me I have to. And you can say the same for pretty much every regulation inflicted on us by various levels of government.

[MJZiggy]

My uncle fell of his bike a couple years ago and while wearing a helmet managed to break his jaw and some teeth. Went on a liquid diet for a couple months and lost 20 lbs. that he really didn't need to lose. I can only imagine what might have happened had he not been wearing a helmet.

I also knew a young man who was driving back to Wis on his motorcycle and somehow lost cotrol of the bike and went face first into a street sign. I don't even know if he was wearing a helmet, but 20 (or more) years later and I still think about him sometimes.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If somebody wants to thin the herd, let them.

[GBRulz]

It totally should be the bikers choice. My sentiments are what Harvey said.

One thing that I would like to see being illegal are bikers who ride side-by-side in the same lane. I have come so close to clipping them as they hog the center line.

[digitaldean]

If someone wants to be a brain donor, that's their choice.

Considering the debris, insects, etc. that hit riders on the open road, I'd think it's common sense to wear a helmet. For the amount of crap that flies into me riding my mountain bike along a stinkin' city park trail, it's nonsense not to wear one.

[packinpatland]

It's one of those laws that only applies to the helmet-less-head........if the rider is not weraring a helmet, it's not going to hurt anyone but......

[HowardRoark]

Do you guys in Oregon still have the law where you can't pump your own gasoline into your car?

[packinpatland]

Don't know about Oregon.........but NJ won't let you pump your own....and the gas is cheaper than here in CT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't remember gas being cheap in Oregon when I was there. It was a lot more than what I was used to paying, but I think it was cheaper than California. What's your gas tax in Connecticut?

[falco]

i was in oregon last may (2007), and almost got tackled to the ground when i tried to pump my own gas....


those against the helmet law - are you also against the seat belt law?

[texaspackerbacker]

i was in oregon last may (2007), and almost got tackled to the ground when i tried to pump my own gas....


those against the helmet law - are you also against the seat belt law?

Hell Yeah!

Nobody said (at least, I didn't) that wearing helmets wasn't a good idea--or seat belts either, for that matter--JUST THAT THE GOD DAMNED INTRUSIVE DO-GOODER INFESTED NANNY-STATE MENTALITY GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE STICKING ITS NOSE IN OUR BUSINESS TELLING US WE HAVE TO!

I'm 61 years old, conservative as the day is long, but I HATE authority. When I was in college at U.W. in the late sixties, about the only thing the hippies and radicals and I had in common was "DEFY AUTHORITY"--you know, the up-raised fist.

[Zool]

I like the seat belt law for kids with idiot parents. Driving down the highway the other day and i saw a kid staring back at me from the car in front of me. The kid then jumped to the front seat and back again. All at 70mph. Kids arent smart enough to know better but their parents should.

No to helmet laws.

[billy_oliver880]

Been riding for 5 years now. I couldn't imagine going without a helmet. Also not all helmets are made equal. Lots of people wear tiny "brain buckets" for the look. Those do very very little when your head smacks the pavement.

[texaspackerbacker]

I like the seat belt law for kids with idiot parents. Driving down the highway the other day and i saw a kid staring back at me from the car in front of me. The kid then jumped to the front seat and back again. All at 70mph. Kids arent smart enough to know better but their parents should.

No to helmet laws.

yeah yeah yeah. How many of us grew up perfectly well doing that and worse.

[Freak Out]

There is no self service fueling in Oregon.

[bobblehead]

follow the money. Its the insurance companies that lobby for helmet and seatbelt laws. do-gooder politicians also want to get involved for some good press, but mostly its the insurance companies.

I wear a helmet too, but I agree with harvey...sometimes the herds needs culling.

[MJZiggy]

I like the seat belt law for kids with idiot parents. Driving down the highway the other day and i saw a kid staring back at me from the car in front of me. The kid then jumped to the front seat and back again. All at 70mph. Kids arent smart enough to know better but their parents should.

No to helmet laws.

yeah yeah yeah. How many of us grew up perfectly well doing that and worse.

Sometimes it's less about how many of us did and more about how many of us didn't.

When you're talking about grownups that's one thing (and I do think carseat laws are overdone--8 years and 50 lbs.? Please) but protecting the kids who can't do it themselves is another.

[GBRulz]

When you're talking about grownups that's one thing (and I do think carseat laws are overdone--8 years and 50 lbs.? Please) but protecting the kids who can't do it themselves is another.

WI has a law similar to that. They have to be in a car seat until 4, but a booster seat until 8, or a certain weight/height. My niece has a booster seat, it's basically a big foamy pad to sit on. Apparently it brings them up to the right height so that a seat belt won't harm them.

[MJZiggy]

There's a $.50 clip that you can buy that pulls the seatbelt to the side that serves the same purpose.

[oregonpackfan]

There is no self service fueling in Oregon.

Freak Out is correct. Oregon is also one of the top 10 states in the country with the highest gasoline rates.

Allegedly, the law against self-service is to "protect the consumer" as there was an explosion by a self-serving motorist years ago.

I suspect the real reason for the non-self service is to keep the unemployment rates down. Those gas stations employ a lot of people at minimum wages.

[oregonpackfan]

One shortcoming of the No Helmet law is that it raises the health insurance rates for the rest of the population.

A number of those individuals who survive an accident while not wearing a helmet require far more intensive medical care than if they had been wearing a helmet. There are stories of helmetless accident survivors who spend the rest of their lives as a vegetable at the financial expense of the rest of us.

So those "idiots" who ride not wearing a helmet do indeed affect society.

[HowardRoark]

I suspect the real reason for the non-self service is to keep the unemployment rates down. Those gas stations employ a lot of people at minimum wages.

The law seemed pretty transparent to me too. As I sat in my car I wondered why they don't mandate that everybody needs to eat at least one doughnut every morning.

[HarveyWallbangers]

One shortcoming of the No Helmet law is that it raises the health insurance rates for the rest of the population.

I always love when liberals justify a law because of reasons like this. One, I don't think you base a law on the cost. I'd rather have a law based on individual freedoms. Also, I doubt the costs would go up that much. Did your insurance rates go down when the seat belt law was enacted? Hardly. It's just something politicians claim so they can continue to legislate "what's best for us." There are other things our politicians could do to lower the cost of health insurance.

BTW, this doesn't mean I don't think children should be required to wear seat belts, helmets, etc.

[packinpatland]

I don't remember gas being cheap in Oregon when I was there. It was a lot more than what I was used to paying, but I think it was cheaper than California. What's your gas tax in Connecticut?

62.5 cents a gallon.

[packinpatland]

Only CA is higher that CT


Alabama 38.6 45.6 2 cent inspection fee. 1 cpg Transport Fee. City and Couny levies can be from .5 to 6 cpg.
Alaska 26.4 32.4
Arizona 37.4 52.4 1 cpg UST tax. Use class vehicles pay an additionsl 9cpg for diesel
Arkansas 40.2 47.2 .3 cpg environmental assurance fee for underground storage tank fund
California 63.9 72.0 6% Sales Tax. 1.25% county tax. 1.2 cpg state UST fee. plus local sales tax
Colorado 40.4 44.9
Connecticut 62.5 61.4
Delaware 41.4 46.4 .9% gross receipts tax for Hazardous substance cleanup fund.
Dist. of Columbia 38.4 44.4
Florida 51.6 53.4 Sales tax 11.6. 4 cpg excise tax. 2.2 cpg environmental inspection.
Georgia 44.4 52.6 4% sales tax. Local option sales taxes from 1% to 3%
Hawaii 51.0 71.1 4% sales tax. county tax and 0.1 cpg environmental reponse tax.
Idaho 43.4 49.4
Illinois 57.9 65.7 6.25% sales tax. 0.003 per gallon tax for underground storage tank fund. Additional 12.75 cpg in City of Chicago
Indiana 50.1 69.2 6% sales tax. 0.01 per gallon inspection fee.
Iowa 40.1 47.9 1 cpg UST fee.
Kansas 43.4 51.4 1 cpg environmental fee
Kentucky 36.9 39.9 1.4cpg underground storage tank fund. Commercial carriers pay surtax 2.2cpg quarterly on gas and 5.2 cpg on special fuels
Louisiana 38.4 44.4
Maine 47.5 53.9 .07 Coastal and Inland Water fund. 1.38 groundwater fund. 40 cpg/10,000 for Petroleum Market Share Act.
Maryland 41.9 48.7
Massachusetts 41.9 47.9 2.5 cp UST fund.
Michigan 54.4 60.3 6% sales tax. .875 cpg for environmental regulation fee for refined petroleum fund
Minnesota 40.4 46.4 2 cpg UST cleanup fee at wholesale level
Mississippi 37.2 43.2 .4 cpg Environmental Protection Fee. In Hancock, Harrison and Jackson counties there is an additional 3 cpg Seawall tax.
Missouri 36.0 42.0
Montana 46.2 53.0 0.75cpg fee assessed at the pump to go toward the state cleanup fund.
Nebraska 42.3 47.7 0.9cpg release prevention fee for gasoline and 0.3cpg release prevention fee for diesel
Nevada 50.9 53.0 up to 10cpg county tax on gasoline.0.75 cpg cleanup fee. .055 cpg inspection fee.
New Hampshire 38.0 44.0 0.125 cpg for oil pollution control fund.1.5 cpg for UST cleanup fund.
New Jersey 32.9 41.9 4 cpg Petroleum Products Gross Receipts Tax.
New Mexico 36.4 43.4 1 cpg loading fee.
New York 59.6 64.7 local county sales tax of between 3.125% to 4.75%.
North Carolina 48.6 54.6 0.25cpg inspection tax.17.5 cpg flat rate plus a variable rate of 12.35 cpg wholesale price component
North Dakota 41.4 47.4
Ohio 46.4 52.4 Surcharge of 3 cpg for commercial vehicles.
Oklahoma 35.4 38.4 1 cpg per gallon UST fee.
Oregon 43.4 48.7 additional optional county gasoline (ranging from 1 to 3 cpg) and city gasoline and diesel taxes (ranging from 1 to 5 cpg).
Pennsylvania 50.7 63.6 19.2 cent per gallon oil company franchise tax on gas. 26.1 cpg oil company franchise tax on diesel.1.1 cpg UST fee
Rhode Island 49.4 55.4 1 cent per gallon environmental protection regulatory fee for UST program.
South Carolina 35.2 41.2 0.25 cpg inspection fee for inspection program and 0.50cpg environmental fee for UST cleanup.
South Dakota 42.4 48.4 2 cpg Tank Inspection Fee. Ethanol is taxed at 20 cents per gallon; E85 and M85 are taxed at 10 cpg.
Tennessee 39.8 42.8 1cent special petroleum tax for gasoline and .4 cpg environmental assurance fee.
Texas 38.4 44.4
Utah 42.9 48.9
Vermont 38.4 50.4 1 cpg license fee for UST fund.
Virginia 38.0 44.0 0.6cpg petroleum storage tank fee and 2% sales tax on motor fuels in localities that are part of the Northern Virginia Transportation District
Washington 54.4 60.4
West Virginia 49.9 55.9
Wisconsin 51.3 57.3 2cpg UST fee on gasoline and diesel.
Wyoming 32.4 38.4 1 cpg to the environmental cleanup costs.

[GBRulz]

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

Kind of a cool map, showing gas costs across the US.

[oregonpackfan]

[quote=oregonpackfan]One shortcoming of the No Helmet law is that it raises the health insurance rates for the rest of the population.

I always love when liberals justify a law because of reasons like this. One, I don't think you base a law on the cost. I'd rather have a law based on individual freedoms. Also, I doubt the costs would go up that much. Did your insurance rates go down when the seat belt law was enacted? Hardly. It's just something politicians claim so they can continue to legislate "what's best for us." /quote]

Harvey,

Insurance companies keep very detailed statistics on matters like this issue of helmets for motorcyclists. The fact is motorcyclists and cyclists involved in accidents while not wearing helmets are bound to incur far greater costs in medical care(providing they survive the accident) than users who wear helmets.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

OPF...that isn't Harv's point.

[Patler]

I rode motorcycles for years with a helmet and for years without a helmet. Still do both today, with and without. Kind of feel it should be my choice.

OPF - I don't know whose stats to believe, there is another side to it. If you follow the anti-helmet (motorcycle) lobby they have stats to prove much LESS medical costs for the helmetless rider...because they more often die in higher speed crashes. The helmeted rider lives, but with a broken up body. By their stats, there is also a higher incidence of severe neck injuries and even paralysis in low speed accidents with helmeted riders. Some studies say it is from the drag of the helmet along the ground, others say it is from severe whiplash due to momentum from the added weight of the helmet.

[Partial]

If somebody wants to thin the herd, let them.

echoed.

[bobblehead]

Only CA is higher that CT


Alabama 38.6 45.6 2 cent inspection fee. 1 cpg Transport Fee. City and Couny levies can be from .5 to 6 cpg.
Alaska 26.4 32.4
Arizona 37.4 52.4 1 cpg UST tax. Use class vehicles pay an additionsl 9cpg for diesel
Arkansas 40.2 47.2 .3 cpg environmental assurance fee for underground storage tank fund
California 63.9 72.0 6% Sales Tax. 1.25% county tax. 1.2 cpg state UST fee. plus local sales tax
Colorado 40.4 44.9
Connecticut 62.5 61.4
Delaware 41.4 46.4 .9% gross receipts tax for Hazardous substance cleanup fund.
Dist. of Columbia 38.4 44.4
Florida 51.6 53.4 Sales tax 11.6. 4 cpg excise tax. 2.2 cpg environmental inspection.
Georgia 44.4 52.6 4% sales tax. Local option sales taxes from 1% to 3%
Hawaii 51.0 71.1 4% sales tax. county tax and 0.1 cpg environmental reponse tax.
Idaho 43.4 49.4
Illinois 57.9 65.7 6.25% sales tax. 0.003 per gallon tax for underground storage tank fund. Additional 12.75 cpg in City of Chicago
Indiana 50.1 69.2 6% sales tax. 0.01 per gallon inspection fee.
Iowa 40.1 47.9 1 cpg UST fee.
Kansas 43.4 51.4 1 cpg environmental fee
Kentucky 36.9 39.9 1.4cpg underground storage tank fund. Commercial carriers pay surtax 2.2cpg quarterly on gas and 5.2 cpg on special fuels
Louisiana 38.4 44.4
Maine 47.5 53.9 .07 Coastal and Inland Water fund. 1.38 groundwater fund. 40 cpg/10,000 for Petroleum Market Share Act.
Maryland 41.9 48.7
Massachusetts 41.9 47.9 2.5 cp UST fund.
Michigan 54.4 60.3 6% sales tax. .875 cpg for environmental regulation fee for refined petroleum fund
Minnesota 40.4 46.4 2 cpg UST cleanup fee at wholesale level
Mississippi 37.2 43.2 .4 cpg Environmental Protection Fee. In Hancock, Harrison and Jackson counties there is an additional 3 cpg Seawall tax.
Missouri 36.0 42.0
Montana 46.2 53.0 0.75cpg fee assessed at the pump to go toward the state cleanup fund.
Nebraska 42.3 47.7 0.9cpg release prevention fee for gasoline and 0.3cpg release prevention fee for diesel
Nevada 50.9 53.0 up to 10cpg county tax on gasoline.0.75 cpg cleanup fee. .055 cpg inspection fee.
New Hampshire 38.0 44.0 0.125 cpg for oil pollution control fund.1.5 cpg for UST cleanup fund.
New Jersey 32.9 41.9 4 cpg Petroleum Products Gross Receipts Tax.
New Mexico 36.4 43.4 1 cpg loading fee.
New York 59.6 64.7 local county sales tax of between 3.125% to 4.75%.
North Carolina 48.6 54.6 0.25cpg inspection tax.17.5 cpg flat rate plus a variable rate of 12.35 cpg wholesale price component
North Dakota 41.4 47.4
Ohio 46.4 52.4 Surcharge of 3 cpg for commercial vehicles.
Oklahoma 35.4 38.4 1 cpg per gallon UST fee.
Oregon 43.4 48.7 additional optional county gasoline (ranging from 1 to 3 cpg) and city gasoline and diesel taxes (ranging from 1 to 5 cpg).
Pennsylvania 50.7 63.6 19.2 cent per gallon oil company franchise tax on gas. 26.1 cpg oil company franchise tax on diesel.1.1 cpg UST fee
Rhode Island 49.4 55.4 1 cent per gallon environmental protection regulatory fee for UST program.
South Carolina 35.2 41.2 0.25 cpg inspection fee for inspection program and 0.50cpg environmental fee for UST cleanup.
South Dakota 42.4 48.4 2 cpg Tank Inspection Fee. Ethanol is taxed at 20 cents per gallon; E85 and M85 are taxed at 10 cpg.
Tennessee 39.8 42.8 1cent special petroleum tax for gasoline and .4 cpg environmental assurance fee.
Texas 38.4 44.4
Utah 42.9 48.9
Vermont 38.4 50.4 1 cpg license fee for UST fund.
Virginia 38.0 44.0 0.6cpg petroleum storage tank fee and 2% sales tax on motor fuels in localities that are part of the Northern Virginia Transportation District
Washington 54.4 60.4
West Virginia 49.9 55.9
Wisconsin 51.3 57.3 2cpg UST fee on gasoline and diesel.
Wyoming 32.4 38.4 1 cpg to the environmental cleanup costs.

I'd be interested to see how much the oil companies and gas stations make per gallon.

[GBRulz]

oil companies...billions. Gas stations...well, they gas was never a big profit item for them to begin with. In fact, many are actually losing money with the high gas prices simply because of the fees they have to pay in order to accept credit cards. Apparently, the percentage of what credit cards get increases with a higher amount charged. So, many stations are actually refusing credit/debit cards entirely...or offering a discount of 3-4 cents per gallon if you pay in cash.

[Patler]

So, many stations are actually refusing credit/debit cards entirely...or offering a discount of 3-4 cents per gallon if you pay in cash.

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio a few weeks back. While gas stations are doing it, apparently it violates the user contract with all major credit card companies if you give a discount for cash. They said the major card companies are making the rounds and pulling their card service from gas stations doing it.

[GBRulz]

So, many stations are actually refusing credit/debit cards entirely...or offering a discount of 3-4 cents per gallon if you pay in cash.

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio a few weeks back. While gas stations are doing it, apparently it violates the user contract with all major credit card companies if you give a discount for cash. They said the major card companies are making the rounds and pulling their card service from gas stations doing it.

Wow, I haven't heard that one. Unless I don't have a thorough understanding of the credit card acceptance services, it doesn't make sense to me either.

You have your credit card merchants...the ones who provide the machines, provide the actual processing service and set the transaction rates. Then you have the actual credit card companies, or banks themselves. I guess I can see the merchants getting irritated but I would think banks have better things to do. Also, there are tons of merchants out there, so you can always go to a different one.

The story you heard does makes sense though. Perhaps that could be why you don't see more stores offering discounts for paying in cash.

On the other hand, the card merchants have to be careful because you don't want to alienate the stores who are making you $$$$.

Can't say I blame the gas station owners for their stance on this though.