Cliff Christl Blog : Ahmad Carroll, etc.

[motife]

TUESDAY, June 13, 2006, 3:38 p.m.
With Carroll, some things change, some don't

Third-year cornerback Ahmad Carroll has made some impressive plays over the course of the OTAs, including an interception Tuesday of a Brett Favre pass in 7-on-7. Rookie receiver Chris Francies ran a corner route and Carroll cut underneath and made a nice play on the ball. And on that particular play Carroll's celebration was limited to a leaping high five with fellow cornerback Jerron Wishom.

But if Carroll has improved as a player, he hasn't cut back any on his immature antics. He still has too much punk in him.

Earlier in that same drill, Carroll made a nice play to break up a Favre pass intended for rookie wide receiver Cory Rodgers and celebrated by running over and thumping Rodgers in the chest. Had it been a game, Carroll probably would have drawn a penalty for taunting. He also hot-dogged it after another good play on a Favre pass to Francies.

Throughout the OTAs, Carroll has maintained glue-like coverage at times without interfering and also seems to be playing the ball better. But keep in mind and maybe Carroll should as well before getting too carried away with his celebrations that some of those plays are coming against receivers who won't even be around come September.

And while he doesn't seem to suffer as many lapses as he did in the past, Carroll had one early in 7-on-7. Veteran receiver Marc Boerigter ran past him on a go route and caught a touchdown pass from Favre. The defense was in a cover-two zone with safety Nick Collins playing over the top, but Carroll was man enough to admit in the locker room that he should have turned and run with Boerigter just as he would in man coverage.

Second-year safety Marviel Underwood also seems to have made strides since last season. He just seems to be reacting better to the ball. He didn't make any plays Tuesday, but Monday he made a nice break and broke up a pass intended for first-year tight end Garrett Cross.

Second-year offensive lineman Chris White has been taking two snaps at left guard for every one at center the past two days in practice. He started working at left guard last week.

Rookie tight end Zac Alcorn out of Black Hills State had a day that he may never forget if his pro career doesn't last beyond the next few months. In team drills, he made a nice catch on an out from Favre, caught another out from Aaron Rodgers and a slant from Rodgers. However in 7-on-7, Alcorn couldn't hold onto a ball that was tipped by linebacker Tracy White.

Coach Mike McCarthy jumped all over rookie tackle Tony Moll for not being in the huddle when his turn came to run a play with the second offense during team drills. It might have been McCarthy's loudest on-field outburst yet.

McCarthy said he sees Noah Herron as someone who could play both halfback and fullback in his offense. Herron continues to get more work with the No. 1 unit. "He's a very natural, instinctive football player," said McCarthy.

Wide receiver Donald Driver missed practice. Defensive end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila observed practice with a shoulder problem. ... Linebacker Nick Barnett and cornerback Mike Hawkins returned to practice. But Hawkins dropped out after sustaining a cut near his knee. Cornerback Jason Horton dropped out with a back problem. ... NFL Europe wide receiver Chad Lucas practiced. ... With KGB out, Kenny Peterson worked with the first unit at right defensive end.

There will be no practice and, therefore, no blog Wednesday. On Thursday, I have to participate in a company seminar in Milwaukee and won't be able to attend practice. The next practice blog is scheduled to appear Friday.

[motife]

The newest member of the Lions, OG Ross Verba, was the fifth offensive lineman to sign with Detroit since free agency began in March. Verba didn’t play last season — he was released June 9, 2005, after a contract-related falling-out with the Browns — but we’re told he reported to minicamp in very good shape. Lions OL coach Larry Beightol pushed for the signing. He coached Verba in 1999 and 2000 with the Packers. Verba was already working with the first-team offense at left guard during the team’s first practice session.

[Polaris]

The newest member of the Lions, OG Ross Verba, was the fifth offensive lineman to sign with Detroit since free agency began in March. Verba didn’t play last season — he was released June 9, 2005, after a contract-related falling-out with the .

So you've got a new HC in Detroit. He brought in Mike Martz to work with all those talented offensive players. They drafted Calhoun out of UW. They've made a huge effort to upgrade their offensive line and they've got Larry Beightol working with that group.

Is there any reason at all to believe that Detroit's offense isn't going to be much improved this year?

[Tony Oday]

Two words Kitna and McCowen

[packerpete]

Two words Kitna and McCowen

Both of those words may not invoke confidence in you, but to Lion fans they sound like sweet music compared to the words Harrington or Garcia

I agree that Detroit will be better this season. How much better? like the GBP, gonna hafta wait n see

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

"Throughout the OTAs, Carroll has maintained glue-like coverage at times without interfering"

at times without interfering-lol

so most of the hes interfering?

[Murphy37]

I wonder why A-Car's team mates havn't dealt with his cockiness. Here's my theory. Perhaps he has made it known in the locker room, that his trash talking way of playing the game, is just his way of getting hyped up to play, and that he doesn't mean any harm by it. This would explain the absence of retaliation by teammates. Kinda like when your playin with your buddies, and you trash talk after a good play. You don't mean anything by it, it's all in good fun. It's not my style, but alot of young people seem to feed off it. Otherwise I would think that someone would have taught him a lesson by now. Who knows, maybe he is an asshole, and the whole team is afraid to stand up to him. I hope not.

[RashanGary]

Carroll is extremely competitive. You can see that he wants to knock you out the way he plays. He backs off of Fergi and Driver I think out of consideration and respect but he takes it too the young guys. I've been pretty impressed with Carroll this off-season. I think mad is right when he predicts Carroll to have a big year. The kid can flat out hit and he's getting his coverage down. I see no reason to get rid of him just because he's ultra competitive and cocky.

Carroll looked to be in A1-Tip Top shape. He's a tough puppy. I think they're going to have him as a Gunner too. I would love to see Ferguson and Carroll as punt gunners. Those two would be unstoppable.

[Bretsky]

I wonder why A-Car's team mates havn't dealt with his cockiness. Here's my theory. Perhaps he has made it known in the locker room, that his trash talking way of playing the game, is just his way of getting hyped up to play, and that he doesn't mean any harm by it. This would explain the absence of retaliation by teammates. Kinda like when your playin with your buddies, and you trash talk after a good play. You don't mean anything by it, it's all in good fun. It's not my style, but alot of young people seem to feed off it. Otherwise I would think that someone would have taught him a lesson by now. Who knows, maybe he is an asshole, and the whole team is afraid to stand up to him. I hope not.

Murph,

I don't think he's well liked IMO, but only going off one players comments in Flanagan last year. TMJ made reference to a locker room interview where Flanagan was commenting about AROD, and how he's a first round draft pick that came in here modestly with his head on straight and won the respect of others, unlike that ......blip....over there. And he pointed to Ahmad's locker.

Now some may think that's spewed crap, but I took it as the type of thing Flanagan, always a likeable straight shooter to interview, would do and took it as the truth.

[Bretsky]

Carroll is extremely competitive. You can see that he wants to knock you out the way he plays. He backs off of Fergi and Driver I think out of consideration and respect but he takes it too the young guys. I've been pretty impressed with Carroll this off-season. I think mad is right when he predicts Carroll to have a big year. The kid can flat out hit and he's getting his coverage down. I see no reason to get rid of him just because he's ultra competitive and cocky.

Carroll looked to be in A1-Tip Top shape. He's a tough puppy. I think they're going to have him as a Gunner too. I would love to see Ferguson and Carroll as punt gunners. Those two would be unstoppable.


To me, Ahmad Carroll is a me first prick and I hope he can change that. Too often he makes a big play and he showcases himself like it's the first big play in his life he has made.

I'm not going to rip his talent. He has immense talent...good speed...I think he can cover.....but well below average ball skills.

But Ahmad Carroll needs to channel that competitiveness in a mature manner and succeed consistently rather than creating more focus for himself when he does make one play.

[Murphy37]

Yeah like I said Bretsky, I don't agree with the way he acts, but I would hope that somebody on the team would have taught him a lesson by now and straightened him up. If not, I'm worried that he is the team bully and everyone is afraid of him. Sounds funny doesn't it. So either you believe that we don't have the leadership to to set him straight, or there is some soart of understanding that he doesn't mean anything personal by it, and he has made that clear to everyone. God I hope it's the 2nd option.

[Bretsky]

Yeah like I said Bretsky, I don't agree with the way he acts, but I would hope that somebody on the team would have taught him a lesson by now and straightened him up. If not, I'm worried that he is the team bully and everyone is afraid of him. Sounds funny doesn't it. So either you believe that we don't have the leadership to to set him straight, or there is some soart of understanding that he doesn't mean anything personal by it, and he has made that clear to everyone. God I hope it's the 2nd option.


Last year, who would you consider the leader on our defense ? Heck, I don't think we've ever had anyone to set anybody straight since Leroy Butler and Reggie White.

[Murphy37]

Yeah like I said Bretsky, I don't agree with the way he acts, but I would hope that somebody on the team would have taught him a lesson by now and straightened him up. If not, I'm worried that he is the team bully and everyone is afraid of him. Sounds funny doesn't it. So either you believe that we don't have the leadership to to set him straight, or there is some soart of understanding that he doesn't mean anything personal by it, and he has made that clear to everyone. God I hope it's the 2nd option.


Last year, who would you consider the leader on our defense ? Heck, I don't think we've ever had anyone to set anybody straight since Leroy Butler and Reggie White.

Exactly, that's why I'm hoping my theory pans out. In any situation, a new guy does not last long coming in being mouthy and cocky unless there is some soart of understanding there. Think of our beloved forum. Some kid comes in bossing everyone around talkin smack without offering any kind of respect, he's gonna get lynched. I would assume that in a football lockerroom there is the same mentality. If not, we are in serious trouble.

[swede]

I wonder if Kampmann is ready to step into that role. You don't have to be the best player on the field to be a leader. You just have to have the respect from teammates that comes from being assignment sure, hard working, and confident.

I think Barnett squandered some of his leadership points when he created the stupidest on-the-field celebration in the NFL. The Samurai sword chop may be mistakenly interpreted as a George Webb's cook suddenly pulling a cockroach off his back and smacking it on the grill with a spatula.

I think Hawk's idea of a celebration may be to walk back to the defensive huddle and check with the other guys to see if the running back ever got up. To be honest, Hawk has seemed almost too humble to step immediately into the leadership role that this defense is going to need. Kampmann, Harris, and Woodson seem good candidates to pull together and use their veteran status to lead this defense.

[Partial]

you know how everyone talks about how the steelers rallied around big ben even as a rookie? He was definitely their leader. Look for Hawk to command the same respect. That dude is balls to the walls football. I think by seasons end he and kampman will be the vocal leaders of the defense and that'll certainly be alright with me!

[swede]

You may be right, Partially. :wink:

If the leadership is in him naturally, Hawk's humble first impressions may give way to a wild-eyed warrior rallying the troops as soon as he gets on the field and starts hitting people. It's possible his destiny to be a leader cannot be suppressed by his desire to be polite and deferential to veterans.

[mmmdk]

Ahmad Carroll is a headcase; too bad actually 'cos he's got the skills of a probowl CB. Ahmad Carroll will never be a leader but being tough with rookies is ok but it seems that Ahmad Carroll is a wee bit out of control with the youngsters. Carroll is a Sherman legacy, he's got 1st round abilities and with Woodson in town...wait, Woodson is MIA at OTS...anyways, with Woodson around eventually he'll step up and be valuable in nickel and dimes plus special team. Ahmad Carroll is a lock!

About Woodson, Pickett & Harris - could it (also) be that they're afraid of injury during the OTAs? I mean, basically most of the current roster are guys fighting for a roster spot! Some guys would use that excuse and it's a bad one. Long live guys like Kampman etc. :mrgreen:

[motife]

When Darren Sharper first came up there were a lot of doubters. After Eugene Robinson signed with Atlanta his parting shot was no way was Sharper smart enough to play safety even though he had the physical skills.

Anyone remember when the big white WR for Denver ran about 50 yards dragging Sharper all the way? Ed McAffrey I think.

[MadtownPacker]

When Darren Sharper first came up there were a lot of doubters. After Eugene Robinson signed with Atlanta his parting shot was no way was Sharper smart enough to play safety even though he had the physical skills.
Lets see, pretty boy had a part of 4th&25 and 4th&26, yeah Id have to say Robinson had a point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Barnett squandered some of his leadership points when he created the stupidest on-the-field celebration in the NFL.

I doubt other players think anything negative about this.

It is really hard to know what players think about each other. OK, Flanagan didn't like Carroll. That doesn't mean a whole lot. Cletedius Hunt was spoken of well by other players. The fans have a totally different perspective than teammates.

[Tarlam!]

Hawk is already the leader of this defense. He leads by example. He will be an everydown LB.

If anyone on the "D" scews up, they will be answering to Hawk. Give it 2 games, and Hawk will be first out of the locker room door.

Carroll will be taught humility, because he will have front row seats on the best corner tandem in the league.

[Harlan Huckleby]

After Eugene Robinson signed with Atlanta his parting shot was no way was Sharper smart enough to play safety even though he had the physical skills.

Of course Sharper wasn't out chasing hookers the night before he was supposed to play in the Super Bowl. He aint a TOTAL idiot.

[Fritz]

"Second-year safety Marviel Underwood also seems to have made strides since last season. He just seems to be reacting better to the ball. He didn't make any plays Tuesday, but Monday he made a nice break and broke up a pass intended for first-year tight end Garrett Cross."

Ah, this is what I"ve been hoping for. Hadn't heard a word, a peep, about this guy until now. This is encouraging. If he can compete for the top backup job, that would really up the level of play in that backfield.

[LaFours]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?

[Rastak]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


Arby's getting his order right?

[Packers4Ever]

I think Hawk's idea of a celebration may be to walk back to the defensive huddle and check with the other guys to see if the running back ever got up. To be honest, Hawk has seemed almost too humble to step immediately into the leadership role that this defense is going to need. Kampmann, Harris, and Woodson seem good candidates to pull together and use their veteran status to lead this defense.

But don't forget, Hawk is the new kid on the block, he may not really be
as he seems. Once he gets rolling he may turn into a super leader,
certainly respect for his play skills won't be missing.

[Partial]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

[LaFours]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

Hopefully those high fives transpire post-handwashing.

[the_idle_threat]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

He probably picks it up and spikes it on the floor.

[Rastak]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

He probably picks it up and spikes it on the floor.


I'm confused, are we talking about Carroll or Davenport?

[Fritz]

Well, you could argue that the guy has a real joi de vivre - you know, a real zest for life. Imagine how wildly celebratory he must feel after a rousing session of the old in-out. Bet he doesn't just smoke a cigarette and fall asleep.

[packerpete]

Well, you could argue that the guy has a real joi de vivre - you know, a real zest for life. Imagine how wildly celebratory he must feel after a rousing session of the old in-out. Bet he doesn't just smoke a cigarette and fall asleep.

He might celebrate, but how does that make your ass feel?

[LaFours]

Well, you could argue that the guy has a real joi de vivre - you know, a real zest for life. Imagine how wildly celebratory he must feel after a rousing session of the old in-out. Bet he doesn't just smoke a cigarette and fall asleep.

Good one. So what else goes into such an accomplishment? Can you imagine if he took the same approach as he did with the WR? He'd be pushing is partner down talking smack about how he just whaled on him/her and how he owned their ass...I'm sure it would be hilarious!

[jack's smirking revenge]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

He probably picks it up and spikes it on the floor.


I'm confused, are we talking about Carroll or Davenport?

Rastak....I know this is probably out of place on this thread, but I just wanted to give you props. You know a shit-ton of stuff about the Packers. I was just wondering if I could actually go on a Vikes board, participate in convos regarding the Vikes and sound as educated as you are about the Pack and realized that I probably couldn't pull it off. This isn't a stroke message; just a realization that you provide a lot to our conversations and you're not even a Packer fan.

You rock!

tyler

[Harlan Huckleby]

This isn't a stroke message;

!!!????

It's practically stalking.

[jack's smirking revenge]

This isn't a stroke message;

!!!????

It's practically stalking.

How am I supposed to stalk him if you're clueing him into my intentions, Harv?!! :D

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

How am I supposed to stalk him if you're clueing him into my intentions, Harv?!!

Harlan! Not Harv! Please don't insult Harlan like that again.

[jack's smirking revenge]

How am I supposed to stalk him if you're clueing him into my intentions, Harv?!!

Harlan! Not Harv! Please don't insult Harlan like that again.

Whooooooooooooops.....sorry. My bad. Harlan...you're messin' with my plans of world domination, one stalk at a time....

:oops:

tyler

[Rastak]

Since Carroll celebrates these rudimentary successes (i.e. blanketing a practice squad-caliber WR) so ridiculously, I wonder what other ho hum successes he celebrates in his life with such vigor and intensity? I wonder what type of celebration goes into an accomplishment like, say, taking a huge dump? Just a thought...what other types of accomplishments do you guys think Carroll puts a similar level of celebration into?


obvious answer is high-fives all around. Duh! How else does anyone celebrate a poop?

He probably picks it up and spikes it on the floor.


I'm confused, are we talking about Carroll or Davenport?

Rastak....I know this is probably out of place on this thread, but I just wanted to give you props. You know a shit-ton of stuff about the Packers. I was just wondering if I could actually go on a Vikes board, participate in convos regarding the Vikes and sound as educated as you are about the Pack and realized that I probably couldn't pull it off. This isn't a stroke message; just a realization that you provide a lot to our conversations and you're not even a Packer fan.

You rock!

tyler


Thanks Jack, I never mention my association with you guys on Vike boards!
Alot of it is really where I work. It's on the eastern part of the Twin Cities so there are a ton of Wisconsin people working with me so I regualrly talk football with them. I usually watch the Packers anytime it does not conflict with a Viking game and talking to you guys also educates me on the team.

I like to be able to sit down with a co-worker and know what I'm talking about for the most part. There are a couple of Packer fans I work with that I suspect do the same because they always know what's going on with the Vikings so we shift back and forth talking about both teams. Anyway, I think it's cool we can get the other sides opinions on both teams. I'm always interested in how you guys might percieve some Viking moves. I always give my opinion on Packer moves. The thing is, some people can't get beyond the homerism to rationally discuss stuff. I'm guilty of that as well sometimes.


Sorry, that got long. I like Harvey's optimist/realist label. I try and see Viking stuff in a positive light but try not to sugar coat things that I know sucks. Many here do the same.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Probably good that you keep it a secret... :D

People of PackerRats.com, Rastak is a Viking Troll, but a good and fair one. Please do not judge him by the color of his jersey.

As I live in the TC too, I know my fair share of both Vikes homers and Pack homers. It's good to know that there are fans of both that aren't so blinded by color that logic and realism are dead to them. I consider myself an optimist/realist too, only with a green jersey.

There, my strokefest is done. Carry on, ya'lls.

tyler

[Fritz]

Well, you could argue that the guy has a real joi de vivre - you know, a real zest for life. Imagine how wildly celebratory he must feel after a rousing session of the old in-out. Bet he doesn't just smoke a cigarette and fall asleep.

He might celebrate, but how does that make your ass feel?

Not sure if you meant this metaphorically, as in "get your ass over here," with "your ass" meaning, simply, "you," or whether you were being funny, as in Ahmad Carroll was having sex with me.

If you meant it metaphorically, then Ahmad Carroll's probably celebration of his performances might be mildly amusing. If you meant it as a mild cut down in order to be humorous, then I'd say thanks for asking me about the state of my ass. My hemmorhoids are clearing up just fine, thanks.