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woodbuck27
06-15-2006, 10:25 AM
Players face battles to keep jobs
It's boom or bust time for 'Boys on Bubble'

By: ROB REISCHEL

Special to Packer Plus
Posted: June 14, 2006

Green Bay - When you're coming off a 4-12 season, no one's safe. You're in even greater danger when you've advanced in age, don't come cheap or haven't played to expectations.

WR Robert Ferguson, right, is hoping a breakout, injury-free season with the Packers is finally within his reach. Ferguson, entering his sixth season out of Texas A&M, is one of nine veterans on the bubble who must work hard this season to keep their jobs with Green Bay.


Green Bay's roster is packed with such players who we'll call "Bubble Boys." And when training camp begins next month, they'll all have to excel in order to avoid a visit from the Turk.

Here's a list of veterans who must produce this summer, or they could be gone before the 2006 season begins.

1. Robert Ferguson, WR: Ferguson had the chance of his life last season and proceeded to drop the ball. After Javon Walker went down in the season-opener, Ferguson had every opportunity to prove he was the No. 1 wide receiver he'd claimed to be for years.

But Ferguson was arguably the Packers' most disappointing player and might be out of chances in Green Bay.

Ferguson missed five games, pushing his total to nine in three seasons. And even when Ferguson was healthy, he was either agitating quarterback Brett Favre because of his inconsistency, or he was vanishing at key moments.

Ferguson ranked just sixth on the Packers with 27 receptions and offered zero support for Donald Driver. Ferguson, a second-round draft choice in 2001, now has just 111 receptions in five years - an average of just 22.2 per year.

Ferguson's never been fast enough to win vertically. And he's not big enough to go up and get balls in a crowd.

Ferguson was a favorite of former coach Mike Sherman, largely for his work on special teams and his willingness to fight through injuries. But with Sherman out of the mix, Ferguson's days might be numbered as well.

2. Adrian Klemm, OT: General manager Ted Thompson gave Klemm an $800,000 signing bonus and made him his biggest free agent signing in 2005. Klemm was handed the left-guard job, but by week nine, he was glued to the bench.

Klemm was soft and completely ineffective on the move. And he lacked the necessary toughness to play the position.

Klemm did show some ability as a left tackle and could factor in as Chad Clifton's backup. But he hasn't been healthy enough to practice this spring and show the new coaching staff anything. If enough of Green Bay's young linemen show progress, there will be no reason to keep the 29-year old Klemm.

3. Mark Roman, S: Sherman signed Roman in 2004 to be his starting strong safety. Over the last two seasons, though, Roman has been an inconsistent tackler and has been involved in just four turnover plays.

Thompson signed Seattle's Marquand Manuel this off-season to replace Roman. And Roman hasn't taken it well, voicing his displeasure both publicly and privately.

Roman could be an ideal third safety on a Green Bay team that lacks depth at the position. But if the Packers fear Roman's attitude will be an issue, they'll likely release him and go with youth or another veteran released later this summer.

4. Najeh Davenport, RB: It was a minor surprise this winter when Green Bay re-signed Davenport, who's coming off ankle surgery and has never stayed healthy. And Davenport will have his work cut out for him to stick around for a fifth season.

Davenport has flashed brilliance at times, with a career-average of 5.0 yards per carry. He's extremely powerful, but runs too high and takes a beating. In fact, in four seasons, Davenport has played in just 39 games.

Samkon Gado is a virtual lock to stick around, and Green Bay is likely to keep a young back such as Noah Herron. If that's the case, Davenport and veteran Ahman Green could be in a battle for the final roster spot.

5. Ahman Green, RB: Green turned 29 in February. And he was already slowing down before his quadriceps burst in Minnesota last season.

It remains to be seen when Green will return during training camp. And it's a greater mystery if he can fully recover from such a brutal injury.

Green has taken a beating through the years, with 1,972 regular season touches during his eight-year NFL career. He was also the featured back for three seasons at Nebraska.

If years of wear-and-tear and his injured quad render Green a shell of his former self, his brilliant Packer days might be over.

6. Kenny Peterson, DT/DE: A third-round draft choice by Sherman in 2003, Peterson has never played to his draft standing. And he might be out of time.

Peterson played inside on passing downs last seasons and notched the first three sacks of his career. But he's probably too light to hold up there consistently, and he doesn't have the necessary speed to play off the edge.

Peterson might survive because Green Bay's cast of defensive linemen is a less-than-stellar group. But if an interesting veteran or two wind up on the street late in camp, Peterson could certainly be expendable.

7. B.J. Sander, P: Packers fans might not have Sander to kick around much longer. That's because Sander might soon get the boot.

Sander, an extremely controversial third-round draft choice of Sherman's in 2004, has had two extremely disappointing seasons.

Sander was a training-camp flop as a rookie, but was kept on the 53-man roster because Sherman didn't want to face the embarrassment of cutting him.

Last season, Sander had a decent first half, but bombed down the stretch. Sander finished the season ranked 30th in the NFL in gross average (39.2) and 31st in net average (33.9). Sander also struggled in his duties as a holder, drawing the ire of former kicker Ryan Longwell.

Sander's first job this summer will be to hold off unproven Jon Ryan, the only other punter currently in camp. But if neither impress, Green Bay might add a veteran, ala Bryan Barker in 2004.

8. Rod Gardner, WR: A washout in both Washington and Carolina, Gardner looked like a former first-round draft choice during his brief stay in Green Bay last winter. Gardner, picked up on waivers with two weeks left in the regular season, caught four balls for a 16.8-yard average and earned himself another shot in Green Bay.

But Gardner irritated the coaching staff when he missed a large portion of the current organized team activities. And while he has the ideal size for Mike McCarthy's offense, Gardner doesn't run particularly well.

Green Bay spent two draft picks on receivers and has some intriguing young prospects on the roster. If Gardner fails to impress in training camp, there's no guarantee he'll be around.

9. Will Whitticker, OT/OG: Whitticker was thrust into the starting lineup at right guard last season when Thompson failed to adequately address the position. Whitticker, a rookie seventh-round draft pick, then failed miserably, allowing more pressures (30½) and bad runs (12½) than any lineman on the roster.

Whitticker might have been in trouble even if Sherman were still around. With McCarthy now in charge, things look bleaker.

McCarthy and new offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski want sleek, athletic linemen to fit their zone-blocking scheme. At roughly 340 pounds, Whitticker doesn't fit the bill.

The coaching staff has already moved Whitticker from right guard to backup left tackle. And it might not be much longer before he's moved out of town.



From the June 15, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Have an opinion on this story? Write a letter to the editor or start an online forum.

Polaris
06-15-2006, 10:32 AM
I read this article. Apparently, the author doesn't believe we need backup tackles, since currently our backup tackle situation consists of Klemm, Whitticker, and Moll....and he speculates that two of them are on the bubble.

I also think it's unlikely that Roman will be cut since he has a trade value. For those of you who think he's worthless, remember that Marcus Anderson was traded for two day two picks.....as was RKal Truluck. Certainly, a 29 year old who's started numerous games at safety has as much value as them.

Personally, I hope that he stays in Green Bay because he provides a quality veteran backup at a bargain price.

I also don't think Ferguson gets cut. If he's healthy, he's our starting #2 receiver. This is another guy who has some trade value......at least a Day Two pick.

Green's not going to be cut. He'll be ready to play by the season opener. Gardner hasn't helped himself by missing OTAs but he'll make, or not make, the team based on training camp.

And BJ Sander? The reports I'm reading from Cliff Christl indicate that Ryan hasn't clearly beaten him out yet, but he's had two years to show something and he hasn't.
I agree with the author on Sander and Davenport. I was surprised we resigned Davenport in the offseason quite frankly.

pittstang5
06-15-2006, 10:47 AM
Polaris,

You've hit some good points and I agree, especially with the tackles. I half believe that the only way Klemm DOESN'T make this roster is if he ends up on the DL or PUP list. My worst fear this season is that Cliffy or Tausch go down. Currently, the Pack has nobody behind them. Klemm is a serviceable back up, but nothing special.

I see they're trying Whittacker at tackle. I think he's got a long shot to make this team. I'm thinking they'll try to trade him. I don't think he's played tackle before. I'm guessing this guy - Josh Bourke beats out Whittacker.

Gardner or Boerigter maybe on the bubble and the only reason I think this, is because TT may want to keep a young - up and comer like Ruvell Martin instead of a veteran. With Boe and Gard. - you know what you're getting, R. Martin is young and may have a bigger upside. I don't know - it's too early, but I'm pulling for R. Martin to make this squad.

Harlan Huckleby
06-15-2006, 11:17 AM
This article is mostly a pile of provocative horse manure.

Ferguson, Klemm, Roman, and Peterson are not getting cut. They are key role players.

Davenport & Green don't make the team if they can't recover from injury, of course that part is true.

Partial
06-15-2006, 11:30 AM
For what its worth, I think Klemm is a damn good backup tackle. No way does he get cut. I doubt Whitticker does either. He'll be the other backup tackle/guard. Moll will definitely be a practice squad player.

The OLine is going to be:
C: White, Wells
G: Coston, Colledge, Spitz
T: Clifton, Taush, Whitticker, Klemm

Notice you keep hearing reports of them training their olinemen at multiple positions. I think this is to cut down on the roster spots to be able to keep their young DBs with a ton of potential and an extra receiver.

I bet they keep 6 wide receivers and try to find a backup fullback out of a half back (Najeh) since evidentally they're not much difference in this system. Anyone think Ahman would make a great fullback when he starts to lose some of his speed? That dude has never once backed down from contact!

If Ferguson isn't in the top three wideouts in camp my guess is he is gone. They have solid depth of crappy receivers (meaning they have a bunch of 'em) and this would be a good year to dump Fergie's contract since we have the cap room.

Being an engineer and a physics geek, I appreciate the debate that is Jon Ryan vs. BJ Sander is a way most people don't. It's really interesting to think about, because realistically if Ryan is punting the ball a lot farther, odds are it will be WORSE for the team. If Ryan can have comparable hang time to BJ, then I am all for it. I'm sure there are plenty of people that can boot the ball a long way. The problem is finding one that can keep it up in the air long enough for your coverage team to get under it.

Think about it, if you're bombing kicks 60 yards and have the same hang time as a 40 yard kick, your defenders have to cover an extra 20 yards in the same amount of time. This allows the returner to get some running room and momentum and they could be off to the races.

It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. That's one of the battles I most look forward to hearing about!

Harlan Huckleby
06-15-2006, 11:35 AM
If Ferguson isn't in the top three wideouts in camp my guess is he is gone.

Why take the cap hit? Fergy has proven to be an excellent coverage guy on special teams, that is hard to replace.

The Leaper
06-15-2006, 11:38 AM
That is the one thing that is good about Sander...he gets very good hang time on his kicks. It is going to be a very long battle between the two that likely won't be decided until the final cutdown.

The Leaper
06-15-2006, 11:40 AM
I agree with Harlam...Ferguson isn't going anywhere. This team doesn't have any proven receivers in this scheme other than Driver and Ferguson. Two or three other WRs would have to play out of their minds the rest of this summer before we would even CONSIDER dumping Ferguson...and even with that, it still is only a consideration.

Partial
06-15-2006, 11:41 AM
I agree Leaper. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, because the day that Ryan was booming the 60 yarders and Sanders was barely hitting 40, with the hang times reported (don't recall if they were newspaper, or unofficial from fan reporting here) it seemed to me that Sander actually had the better kick!

Partial
06-15-2006, 11:43 AM
If Ferguson isn't in the top three wideouts in camp my guess is he is gone.

Why take the cap hit? Fergy has proven to be an excellent coverage guy on special teams, that is hard to replace.

True. Touche. Hopefully Corey Rodgers is skilled in all facets of special teams and we can rid ourselves of the fraud

The Leaper
06-15-2006, 11:44 AM
I also don't believe we are going to bring in ANOTHER punter...there aren't enough kicks to have a three horse race in camp. Both Sander and Ryan seem to have enough ability to be fringe NFL punters. You aren't going to get anything better than that in free agency at this point.

The battle is between those two...and it should be a good duel.

Fritz
06-15-2006, 11:44 AM
So by the logic of this, would your ideal punter be a guy who kicks it about thirty five yards (less ground to cover) with a hang time of five or six seconds?

And now, I"m not being a smart aleck. I'm curious as to whether this is the ideal possible combination.

Harlan Huckleby
06-15-2006, 11:46 AM
BJ's famous 5-yard punt hung up in the air for what seemed like an eternity.

The Leaper
06-15-2006, 11:48 AM
I agree Leaper. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, because the day that Ryan was booming the 60 yarders and Sanders was barely hitting 40, with the hang times reported (don't recall if they were newspaper, or unofficial from fan reporting here) it seemed to me that Sander actually had the better kick!

If Sander can consistently kick over 40 yards with his normal hang time, he is plenty good enough as an NFL punter. 60 yard punts are typically the kind that get routinely returned for 25+ yards. You can't kick a ball 60 yards with good hang time unless your leg doubles as a civil war era cannon.

The Leaper
06-15-2006, 11:54 AM
So by the logic of this, would your ideal punter be a guy who kicks it about thirty five yards (less ground to cover) with a hang time of five or six seconds?

It depends on the situation...field position, weather conditions, etc.

I'm just not as upset as others who think Sander has to average 45 yards a punt to be worthy as a punter. If he averages 41 or 42 yards, when you consider his hang time and the fact he is left footed, then he would be a very solid punter IMO. That should yield a net of around 36 to 38 yards...which is around average in the NFL, especially for kickers who don't primarily play in domes or warm weather.

Patler
06-15-2006, 12:16 PM
If Ferguson isn't in the top three wideouts in camp my guess is he is gone.

Why take the cap hit? Fergy has proven to be an excellent coverage guy on special teams, that is hard to replace.

What cap hit?
He counts 2.8 against the cap this year, 1.4 in salary and 1.4 in two different bonuses.
If he is cut, he will count 1.4 in bonuses against the cap this year, leaving 1.4 to pay a replacement with no effect on the 2006 cap. If you pay his replacement less than 1.4 this year, you actually save money.

If he is cut this year, there is 1.4 in remaining signing bonus to count next year, but you would have that anyway if he is cut pre-June1, 2007. If you cut him after June 1, 2007 that would be split between 2007 and 2008. He is scheduled to make 1.8 in salary next year, so you have a lot of money to pay a young replacemnt.

I've been saying since last year that 2006 could be Ferguson's "make it or leave" training camp. Cap-wise, it is very easy to let him go this year.

Partial
06-15-2006, 12:31 PM
So by the logic of this, would your ideal punter be a guy who kicks it about thirty five yards (less ground to cover) with a hang time of five or six seconds?

And now, I"m not being a smart aleck. I'm curious as to whether this is the ideal possible combination.

god no, but if they get a head of steam and take it to the house its much worse than a 38 yard fair catch.

Whoever can get the most net yards is obviously going to win, and its very possible that could be Sander. If Ryan is really booming 'em and the guys put up HUGE returns against us, it won't be any better at all. In fact, its much worse.

Deputy Nutz
06-15-2006, 12:37 PM
Players face battles to keep jobs
It's boom or bust time for 'Boys on Bubble'

By: ROB REISCHEL


WR Robert Ferguson, right, is hoping a breakout, injury-free season with the Packers is finally within his reach. Ferguson, entering his sixth season out of Texas A&M, is one of nine veterans on the bubble who must work hard this season to keep their jobs with Green Bay.



1. Robert Ferguson, WR: Ferguson had the chance of his life last season and proceeded to drop the ball. After Javon Walker went down in the season-opener, Ferguson had every opportunity to prove he was the No. 1 wide receiver he'd claimed to be for years.

But Ferguson was arguably the Packers' most disappointing player and might be out of chances in Green Bay.

Ferguson missed five games, pushing his total to nine in three seasons. And even when Ferguson was healthy, he was either agitating quarterback Brett Favre because of his inconsistency, or he was vanishing at key moments.

Ferguson ranked just sixth on the Packers with 27 receptions and offered zero support for Donald Driver. Ferguson, a second-round draft choice in 2001, now has just 111 receptions in five years - an average of just 22.2 per year.

Ferguson's never been fast enough to win vertically. And he's not big enough to go up and get balls in a crowd.

Ferguson was a favorite of former coach Mike Sherman, largely for his work on special teams and his willingness to fight through injuries. But with Sherman out of the mix, Ferguson's days might be numbered as well.



The Bold is bullshit. Ferguson's knock is that he has always had the phyisical tools to compete, he just hasn't demonstrated the ability to go with those physical gifts of size and speed. The guy is able to bench press close to 400 pounds. Some of his only plays in 2005 were go routes where he was able to get past the defensive back. Ferguson needs to stay healthy and start using his strengths, namely his size and speed, and mostly he needs to go to the doctor and get his head removed from his ass.

Patler
06-15-2006, 12:52 PM
and mostly he needs to go to the doctor and get his head removed from his ass.

What's the recovery time on that? If he does it now, will he be ready for camp???

Bretsky
06-15-2006, 09:36 PM
So by the logic of this, would your ideal punter be a guy who kicks it about thirty five yards (less ground to cover) with a hang time of five or six seconds?

And now, I"m not being a smart aleck. I'm curious as to whether this is the ideal possible combination.

In the winds of Lambeau I take the Rocket Leg; he can improve the hang time with more work. Sanders leg strength can not improve much.

Packers4Ever
06-15-2006, 10:33 PM
[quote="Partial"]For what its worth, I think Klemm is a damn good backup tackle. No way does he get cut. I doubt Whitticker does either. He'll be the other backup tackle/guard. Moll will definitely be a practice squad player.

The OLine is going to be:
C: White, Wells
G: Coston, Colledge, Spitz
T: Clifton, Taush, Whitticker, Klemm

Has Grey Ruegamer left us? I'm drawing a blank.
Thought he was doing ok there?

Partial
06-15-2006, 10:52 PM
He's no longer with the team. I'm drawing a blank, was he last year?

Packers4Ever
06-15-2006, 11:00 PM
He's no longer with the team. I'm drawing a blank, was he last year?


Partial, I'm sure I remember seeing Ruegamer in the line
last year, often enough to remember. Either that
or I'm suffering a huge case of CRS again. :lol:

Bretsky
06-15-2006, 11:11 PM
He's no longer with the team. I'm drawing a blank, was he last year?

Ruegy was with us all of last year; this year he signed with an enemy as an unrestricted free agent.

packerpete
06-15-2006, 11:28 PM
Ruegie is with the NY runts.

How can you leave Lucier off the O-Line final tally?

How can you keep Whiff-aker and not Lucier?

Whats up with this White guy? He has shown nothing and he is lighter than I am. He will get eaten alive if he ever gets into a game. I say make him a fullback or cut him.

Partial
06-15-2006, 11:43 PM
Chris White's gonna be a good player someday. Mark my words. OLine is all about experience, and he'll have a solid 4-7th years in league for somebody is my guess.

Why do you feel at 280 he isn't big enough? He's only going to get stronger and faster with age

Polaris
06-16-2006, 07:31 AM
The OLine is going to be:
C: White, Wells
G: Coston, Colledge, Spitz
T: Clifton, Taush, Whitticker, Klemm



I think this is the way it's going to work out as well. IMO, this is not as good a group as last year, primarily because of the lack of experience and depth. They may have more talent....that'll be determined later. But last year our backup C was Scott Wells, this year he's the starter and we've got a guy who's never played backing him up. RG is going to be a guy who's never played backed up by another one. Our back up RT position isn't as good now that Barry is hurt. Reugamer was a pretty decent backup in the interior.

It may be possible to pick up a vet to replace Whitticker when teams trim their rosters. He's playing a position he hasn't played before in a scheme that's new to him and which doesn't really match his physical skills so I think it might be possible to upgrade there. We'll see.

I really expect this group to struggle this year, especially early and especially against the better defensive lines. I don't think it augers well for the people predicting 9-7 and the playoffs.


As regards the punting question, the NFL average NET field position change on a punt is about 34 yards. Since punts that are "pooch-kicked" near the goal line factor into this, I'm going to say that if you punt the ball from your own 35, with an average punter, no wind, no cold, etc....you might reasonably expect a field position change of about 37 yards and your opponent would then start at his own 28.

I understand the point that if the two punters have equal hang time, the one who covers less distance is less likely to be returned. Because a punt returned for a TD is such a big play in a game I'd be willing to sacrifice a yard or two on every punt if it would reduce the likelihood of a big return against me.

Factor in the wind and cold that any punter in Lambeau is going to have to deal with, and I'd say that if you get a guy who can consistently give you a 35 yard punt that has to be fair caught........that's probably the best we have a right to hope for.

wist43
06-16-2006, 10:25 AM
Of those mentioned I think Sander is definitely gone, and Whitticker should be given the boot. Klemm has been a major disappointment but, as someone mentioned, depth at T is a major concern.

Gardner is a long strider and has never been known as a good route runner. His status will depend entirely on how the young guys progress.

------------------

The Packers are going absolutely nowhere this year, or for next few years for that matter, so developing the young guys should be the focus.

Harlan Huckleby
06-16-2006, 10:30 AM
Gardner is a long strider

Sounds like we're handicapping the Kentucky Derby.

Pack0514
06-16-2006, 10:35 AM
The OLine is going to be:
C: White, Wells
G: Coston, Colledge, Spitz
T: Clifton, Taush, Whitticker, Klemm

I agree with this also. I believe both Klemm and Whit will make the team because Klemm is a good backup tackle and Whit (I believe) is being groomed to be a tackle.

Next year, when Klemm is a UFA and we dont resign him, we will need Whitticker's experence to be an adequate backup. 2007 backup tackles should be Whitticker and Moll (If we can keep Moll around as a PS player). Hell you never know, Moll might be kept on the squad this year and just never activated.... ala White last year. I guess we'll see.

Packers4Ever
06-16-2006, 01:51 PM
He's no longer with the team. I'm drawing a blank, was he last year?

Ruegy was with us all of last year; this year he signed with an enemy as an unrestricted free agent.

Thanks Bretsky AND packerpete, I'm not nuts after all. (maybe)

Guess he wanted to leave...

Partial
06-16-2006, 02:00 PM
Nah, he never was that good. We didn't resign him or play much of him last year.

Fritz
06-17-2006, 06:25 AM
Reugamer's one of those guys that will be in the league three years from now, hanging on by a thread.