He.... Had.... Plenty.... Of.... Time.... To.... Throw....

[Pacopete4]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...

[Chevelle2]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

[mission]

Hey Gaylord -- Did you see 72 get pushed right back on his ass immediately at one of the snaps...

NFL players should never look that silly. Im pretty sure Reggie White wasnt playing for the Niners today.

[Gunakor]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...


Which game were you watching? The one I saw illustrated a sieve of an interior line that couldn't block anyone for more than 2 seconds. 2 seconds isn't plenty of time. True enough he could have rolled out of the pocket and bought an extra couple of seconds, but the offensive line most certainly deserves the lions share of the blame. That was atrocious.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Spitz is going to really enjoy the film session.

[Brohm]

The OL was man-handled, period. There was suck all around (QB, OL, WR..and lets not forget the D). SF plays a 3-4/4-3 variant and they got cornholed. No lube. No reach around.

I'd say fuck it and put Colledge back at LG and Spitz back at RG. Unless someone is soundly beaten, this is no time to shitdick around. Build some fucking continuity and a running game. We had that going in the second half last year.

[Partial]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

[Brohm]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

Except for Woodson and the hit by P. Lee, There were no plays in that game. Hell Driver and Lee even had piss poor drops.

[Partial]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

Except for Woodson and the hit by P. Lee, There were no plays in that game. Hell Driver and Lee even had piss poor drops.

Part of me has to wonder if its the ball Rodgers throws. Our steady receivers haven't been so steady lately and I am cannot figure out why.

Regardless, M3 needs to get on their case about this. Right now we look ordinary.

[Gunakor]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

Except for Woodson and the hit by P. Lee, There were no plays in that game. Hell Driver and Lee even had piss poor drops.

Part of me has to wonder if its the ball Rodgers throws. Our steady receivers haven't been so steady lately and I am cannot figure out why.

Regardless, M3 needs to get on their case about this. Right now we look ordinary.

It's preseason Partial. It could just be the WR's shaking off some rust. I wouldn't read anything into that just yet. If they still are dropping easy balls in the 4th game of the preseason, then maybe I'd start to worry.

[Partial]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

Except for Woodson and the hit by P. Lee, There were no plays in that game. Hell Driver and Lee even had piss poor drops.

Part of me has to wonder if its the ball Rodgers throws. Our steady receivers haven't been so steady lately and I am cannot figure out why.

Regardless, M3 needs to get on their case about this. Right now we look ordinary.

It's preseason Partial. It could just be the WR's shaking off some rust. I wouldn't read anything into that just yet. If they still are dropping easy balls in the 4th game of the preseason, then maybe I'd start to worry.

Pre-season schmeeseason. Excellence is not an act but a habit. This is unacceptable at this stage of the game. We're playing like a god damn flag football team.

The 4th preseason game is a joke. They have one more week to get it together before the show officially takes the road. If they have drops like that against the Vikes I will seriously question whether M3's new, modern, less work practice schedule is going to get the job done.

[Brohm]

I understand the premise, and in reality the ball he throws should be different. But unless he is overly amped up, I'm not sure that is the case. These are the same guys he had last year in the Dallas game (well minus Jennings the past few weeks). He also spent significant time with Jones and Martin this off season. With the quality of receivers we have, I wouldn't think it's an issue. I mean good receivers catch balls from anyone, TO, Moss...hell Rice went from Montana to Young, that's a differnet ball :P

I think (hope) it's just sloppy, ill-prepared, tired from playing on monday BS that get's sorted quick. Kinda reminiscent of the SD game a couple years ago where MM pulled Farve in fear of his life...except who the hell can we put in now :shock:

[Partial]

Lee should have caught the touchdown no doubt. I don't care if its a little wobbly, if your hands are on it you should be hauling in a poc like that 10/10 times.

[Gunakor]

It's preseason Partial. It could just be the WR's shaking off some rust. I wouldn't read anything into that just yet. If they still are dropping easy balls in the 4th game of the preseason, then maybe I'd start to worry.

Pre-season schmeeseason. Excellence is not an act but a habit. This is unacceptable at this stage of the game. We're playing like a god damn flag football team.

The 4th preseason game is a joke. They have one more week to get it together before the show officially takes the road. If they have drops like that against the Vikes I will seriously question whether M3's new, modern, less work practice schedule is going to get the job done.

Well I doubt they are gonna find anybody better that week either. You are right, they are normally pretty sure handed. So I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is going to be the norm during the season. Like I said, they are probably just shaking off some rust. They'll be fine. Christ, just one bad game and some people act as if the sky is falling. Relax. It was one game, and a preseason game at that. Need I remind you how dominating our first team offense and defense was on Monday? Chill.

[Partial]

One bad game? Try all of camp. They've had an abnormally high amount of drops it seems from all the JSO blogs, etc.

[cpk1994]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...you.....are....a.....blind....as.....a... ..bat.....assclown.....

[Pacopete4]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...you.....are....a.....blind....as.....a... ..bat.....assclown.....


Favre didn't have a problem last season did he?... how bout with an entirely different team?... k, awesome... its gonna be an up and down year, prepare for it now

[pbmax]

Rodgers definitely got caught just sitting in the pocket several times after having plenty of time to throw. Gannon caught that. But that wasn't the only thing happening.

The O Line got overrun in the middle and Tauscher had trouble with the LDE several times. It wasn't quite a fire drill, but there weren't as many opportunities for a young QB to regain his footing. Unless it was planned or there was an injury, Sitton got benched while the ones were out there and Colledge went in at RG.

My impression was that Rodgers got progressively more rattled as the game went on. He started fine. Then two drops, a blown blitz pickup and pressure made him a zombie back there, too worried to throw before a break or cut but too stubborn to pull it down and gain some yards out of the pocket. The run for 3 yards when it was 3rd and 4 told me his head wasn't in the game, it was about not being stupid or making a mistake.

Needs more swagger! :P

[pbmax]

Every year is different and there is a new starter and one other guy is playing another position. Not only that, but Tauscher struggled with the DE at times. He gave up a lot of room to that guy several times.

No doubt Favre made the O Line look better than it was last year with good reads and a quick trigger. But its way past time for the middle of line to figure it out. Tauscher, I hope, just had a bad game.


Favre didn't have a problem last season did he?... how bout with an entirely different team?... k, awesome... its gonna be an up and down year, prepare for it now

[imscott72]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...


Which game were you watching? The one I saw illustrated a sieve of an interior line that couldn't block anyone for more than 2 seconds. 2 seconds isn't plenty of time. True enough he could have rolled out of the pocket and bought an extra couple of seconds, but the offensive line most certainly deserves the lions share of the blame. That was atrocious.

Absolutely agree. I didn't watch much of the 2nd half, but the first half the O line got owned by the 49er front 7 on several plays. I know on a particular 3rd a long I told my wife I just hope Arod didn't get killed on this play and sure enough a corner blitzed unblocked and Arod got blindsided. It was very disturbing to see.

[imscott72]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

Except for Woodson and the hit by P. Lee, There were no plays in that game. Hell Driver and Lee even had piss poor drops.

Part of me has to wonder if its the ball Rodgers throws. Our steady receivers haven't been so steady lately and I am cannot figure out why.

Regardless, M3 needs to get on their case about this. Right now we look ordinary.

It's preseason Partial. It could just be the WR's shaking off some rust. I wouldn't read anything into that just yet. If they still are dropping easy balls in the 4th game of the preseason, then maybe I'd start to worry.

Eh that preseason excuse only goes so far for me. The 49ers made plays and we didn't. It's not like the WR's aren't practicing catching the ball. Those drops simply can't happen preseason or not. Those things tend to get in your head if they continue.

[pbmax]

If I recall, we had a case of the dropsies last season. I know Jones has it and I seem to remember Jennings and Driver having trouble for a couple games. It seemed to even out after a few games. Lee has no excuse. That was a nice, clear and lofted throw. Driver's was tougher, but I am not even sure he had to dive for that one.

Does anyone else remember tallying up the drops for Favre last year after a disappointing game? I seem to recall that kind of discussion. But imscott is right, it needs to go away. We need Jennings back.

[MJZiggy]

We need Ruvell back! :)

[ND72]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...you.....are....a.....blind....as.....a... ..bat.....assclown.....


Favre didn't have a problem last season did he?... how bout with an entirely different team?... k, awesome... its gonna be an up and down year, prepare for it now



:bs:

[BallHawk]

We need Ruvell back! :)

They do say women are usually the most logical.....

:D

[packerbacker1234]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

Again, wrong. Sports center showed three, count it, three of the sacks. One had 2 seconds. Another he has 1.56, the other was just over 1 second. Never had mroe then 2 seconds is a falicy. He had time MOST OF THE NIGHT. It wasn't just the 4 plays he got sacked, it was ll the plays he ended up throwing the ball away, or just misfiring.

There was a thing done on a science sports analysis thing with Ben Roethelesberger about how much time you to need take the snap, do a three step drop, and then throw the football before a rush would effect anything.

It took Big Ben, who doesn't exactly have the fastest release point, 1.5 seconds to do a three step drop, make a decision, and throw the ball before a rush could effect him.

2 seconds is a lifetime back there. I know comparing to favre is pointless, but just compare it to any of the good to great QB's in the league. A lot of times, especially with a rush, it's three step drop, decision, throw. With AR, it was Three step drop... no decision. Even on the palys he had forever to throw the ball... they call it "smart to throw it away". I call it "he took too long to decide what to do, and then everyone was covered". I think we all forget that this offense was built around the quick pass. THe 5 yard ouyt, the 5 to 10 yard slant. All plays that take a second and a half to 2 seconds from the time the ball is snapped to the time it goes in the air to happen. I just haven't seen that out of rodgers. He isn't make quick enough decisions and it's costing him.

I hope he gets better, because he has to start making decisions faster if he is going to make it out of week one injury free.

[ND72]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

Again, wrong. Sports center showed three, count it, three of the sacks. One had 2 seconds. Another he has 1.56, the other was just over 1 second. Never had mroe then 2 seconds is a falicy. He had time MOST OF THE NIGHT. It wasn't just the 4 plays he got sacked, it was ll the plays he ended up throwing the ball away, or just misfiring.

There was a thing done on a science sports analysis thing with Ben Roethelesberger about how much time you to need take the snap, do a three step drop, and then throw the football before a rush would effect anything.

It took Big Ben, who doesn't exactly have the fastest release point, 1.5 seconds to do a three step drop, make a decision, and throw the ball before a rush could effect him.

2 seconds is a lifetime back there. I know comparing to favre is pointless, but just compare it to any of the good to great QB's in the league. A lot of times, especially with a rush, it's three step drop, decision, throw. With AR, it was Three step drop... no decision. Even on the palys he had forever to throw the ball... they call it "smart to throw it away". I call it "he took too long to decide what to do, and then everyone was covered". I think we all forget that this offense was built around the quick pass. THe 5 yard ouyt, the 5 to 10 yard slant. All plays that take a second and a half to 2 seconds from the time the ball is snapped to the time it goes in the air to happen. I just haven't seen that out of rodgers. He isn't make quick enough decisions and it's costing him.

I hope he gets better, because he has to start making decisions faster if he is going to make it out of week one injury free.

disagree.

Sportcenter even said, "the average NFL pocket is 3.76 seconds"....listening to the post game last night on the radio, they even said Brett averaged around 3.46 seconds per pass last season, and Aaron last night was averaging around 2.11 per pass play.

non the less - we have always struggled vs. a 3-4 defense, and only getting 2 practice days to work against it, isn't going to help our young guys prepare for it.

[Bretsky]

We need Ruvell back! :)

They do say women are usually the most logical.....

:D


You are way too young to start lying to women :!: :!: :lol:

[imscott72]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.


2 seconds is a lifetime back there.

Maybe if you're running a slant route otherwise thats not near enough time for a go or an out route.

[packerbacker1234]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

Again, wrong. Sports center showed three, count it, three of the sacks. One had 2 seconds. Another he has 1.56, the other was just over 1 second. Never had mroe then 2 seconds is a falicy. He had time MOST OF THE NIGHT. It wasn't just the 4 plays he got sacked, it was ll the plays he ended up throwing the ball away, or just misfiring.

There was a thing done on a science sports analysis thing with Ben Roethelesberger about how much time you to need take the snap, do a three step drop, and then throw the football before a rush would effect anything.

It took Big Ben, who doesn't exactly have the fastest release point, 1.5 seconds to do a three step drop, make a decision, and throw the ball before a rush could effect him.

2 seconds is a lifetime back there. I know comparing to favre is pointless, but just compare it to any of the good to great QB's in the league. A lot of times, especially with a rush, it's three step drop, decision, throw. With AR, it was Three step drop... no decision. Even on the palys he had forever to throw the ball... they call it "smart to throw it away". I call it "he took too long to decide what to do, and then everyone was covered". I think we all forget that this offense was built around the quick pass. THe 5 yard ouyt, the 5 to 10 yard slant. All plays that take a second and a half to 2 seconds from the time the ball is snapped to the time it goes in the air to happen. I just haven't seen that out of rodgers. He isn't make quick enough decisions and it's costing him.

I hope he gets better, because he has to start making decisions faster if he is going to make it out of week one injury free.

disagree.

Sportcenter even said, "the average NFL pocket is 3.76 seconds"....listening to the post game last night on the radio, they even said Brett averaged around 3.46 seconds per pass last season, and Aaron last night was averaging around 2.11 per pass play.

non the less - we have always struggled vs. a 3-4 defense, and only getting 2 practice days to work against it, isn't going to help our young guys prepare for it.

I agree to disagree. Rodgers, on several occasions, had more then 2 seconds to throw the ball. The AVERAGE NFL pocket does last over 3.5 seconds, this is in fact true. Thats an average. Only a handful of times during a game do you have to take a three step drop, decide, and fire the ball. And, rodgers had to do it only a mere 3 times out of what, 14 passes? Thats small amount. If you watched the same game I did, minus the sacks, rodgers had pretty good time back there. Also, Brett last season, as I stated, scrambled quite a bit to get that extra time. I know, it's an excuse, but it holds true.

Just saying, average time in a pocket doesn't really equate to small sample portion of game. These siotuations rodgers faced comes up in every game for every QB... and he couldn't get it done. Averages mean nothing when you NEED TO SCORE. There were games last year (like philly in game one), where if brett had more then second and a half on a throw it was a miracle. Crappy teams can cahnge stuff, hence averages don't mean much to me in the end.

Still, I just expect rodgers to do enough to win games. We finish 6 - 10, with QB being the only significant change, it's going to rough on Rodgers from a media, and fan, standpoint, and rougher on managment if favre does well with the jets.

[ND72]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

Again, wrong. Sports center showed three, count it, three of the sacks. One had 2 seconds. Another he has 1.56, the other was just over 1 second. Never had mroe then 2 seconds is a falicy. He had time MOST OF THE NIGHT. It wasn't just the 4 plays he got sacked, it was ll the plays he ended up throwing the ball away, or just misfiring.

There was a thing done on a science sports analysis thing with Ben Roethelesberger about how much time you to need take the snap, do a three step drop, and then throw the football before a rush would effect anything.

It took Big Ben, who doesn't exactly have the fastest release point, 1.5 seconds to do a three step drop, make a decision, and throw the ball before a rush could effect him.

2 seconds is a lifetime back there. I know comparing to favre is pointless, but just compare it to any of the good to great QB's in the league. A lot of times, especially with a rush, it's three step drop, decision, throw. With AR, it was Three step drop... no decision. Even on the palys he had forever to throw the ball... they call it "smart to throw it away". I call it "he took too long to decide what to do, and then everyone was covered". I think we all forget that this offense was built around the quick pass. THe 5 yard ouyt, the 5 to 10 yard slant. All plays that take a second and a half to 2 seconds from the time the ball is snapped to the time it goes in the air to happen. I just haven't seen that out of rodgers. He isn't make quick enough decisions and it's costing him.

I hope he gets better, because he has to start making decisions faster if he is going to make it out of week one injury free.

disagree.

Sportcenter even said, "the average NFL pocket is 3.76 seconds"....listening to the post game last night on the radio, they even said Brett averaged around 3.46 seconds per pass last season, and Aaron last night was averaging around 2.11 per pass play.

non the less - we have always struggled vs. a 3-4 defense, and only getting 2 practice days to work against it, isn't going to help our young guys prepare for it.

I agree to disagree. Rodgers, on several occasions, had more then 2 seconds to throw the ball. The AVERAGE NFL pocket does last over 3.5 seconds, this is in fact true. Thats an average. Only a handful of times during a game do you have to take a three step drop, decide, and fire the ball. And, rodgers had to do it only a mere 3 times out of what, 14 passes? Thats small amount. If you watched the same game I did, minus the sacks, rodgers had pretty good time back there. Also, Brett last season, as I stated, scrambled quite a bit to get that extra time. I know, it's an excuse, but it holds true.

Just saying, average time in a pocket doesn't really equate to small sample portion of game. These siotuations rodgers faced comes up in every game for every QB... and he couldn't get it done. Averages mean nothing when you NEED TO SCORE. There were games last year (like philly in game one), where if brett had more then second and a half on a throw it was a miracle. Crappy teams can cahnge stuff, hence averages don't mean much to me in the end.

Still, I just expect rodgers to do enough to win games. We finish 6 - 10, with QB being the only significant change, it's going to rough on Rodgers from a media, and fan, standpoint, and rougher on managment if favre does well with the jets.

But that is the difference between a 16 year vet, and a 1st year starter. Live with the downfalls so he learns. We went through plenty with Brett.

[packerbacker1234]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.


2 seconds is a lifetime back there.

Maybe if you're running a slant route otherwise thats not near enough time for a go or an out route.

Thats just it though, our team is BUILT on the slants. I know I even said a few times on those drop backs "where is the slants". Thats not say things weren't rough. I remember the one pass he threw away when he looked left a guy creamed him as he threw it. The camara angle when showing the rush also showed Donal Lee Wideopen 10 yards down field running a streak... and guy he over looked as he went from looking dead right, to dead left, ignopring the middle of the field.

I am giving him a fair shake. I am just worried he wont be staying healthy long enough this year to get better with all the hits he took and will take, and that we have nothing behind him that is ready to play.

[packerbacker1234]

Sportscenter had a clock "time in the pocket" for AR. He never had more than 2 seconds.

One of the plays, he had .8 seconds before he was sacked.

Again, wrong. Sports center showed three, count it, three of the sacks. One had 2 seconds. Another he has 1.56, the other was just over 1 second. Never had mroe then 2 seconds is a falicy. He had time MOST OF THE NIGHT. It wasn't just the 4 plays he got sacked, it was ll the plays he ended up throwing the ball away, or just misfiring.

There was a thing done on a science sports analysis thing with Ben Roethelesberger about how much time you to need take the snap, do a three step drop, and then throw the football before a rush would effect anything.

It took Big Ben, who doesn't exactly have the fastest release point, 1.5 seconds to do a three step drop, make a decision, and throw the ball before a rush could effect him.

2 seconds is a lifetime back there. I know comparing to favre is pointless, but just compare it to any of the good to great QB's in the league. A lot of times, especially with a rush, it's three step drop, decision, throw. With AR, it was Three step drop... no decision. Even on the palys he had forever to throw the ball... they call it "smart to throw it away". I call it "he took too long to decide what to do, and then everyone was covered". I think we all forget that this offense was built around the quick pass. THe 5 yard ouyt, the 5 to 10 yard slant. All plays that take a second and a half to 2 seconds from the time the ball is snapped to the time it goes in the air to happen. I just haven't seen that out of rodgers. He isn't make quick enough decisions and it's costing him.

I hope he gets better, because he has to start making decisions faster if he is going to make it out of week one injury free.

disagree.

Sportcenter even said, "the average NFL pocket is 3.76 seconds"....listening to the post game last night on the radio, they even said Brett averaged around 3.46 seconds per pass last season, and Aaron last night was averaging around 2.11 per pass play.

non the less - we have always struggled vs. a 3-4 defense, and only getting 2 practice days to work against it, isn't going to help our young guys prepare for it.

I agree to disagree. Rodgers, on several occasions, had more then 2 seconds to throw the ball. The AVERAGE NFL pocket does last over 3.5 seconds, this is in fact true. Thats an average. Only a handful of times during a game do you have to take a three step drop, decide, and fire the ball. And, rodgers had to do it only a mere 3 times out of what, 14 passes? Thats small amount. If you watched the same game I did, minus the sacks, rodgers had pretty good time back there. Also, Brett last season, as I stated, scrambled quite a bit to get that extra time. I know, it's an excuse, but it holds true.

Just saying, average time in a pocket doesn't really equate to small sample portion of game. These siotuations rodgers faced comes up in every game for every QB... and he couldn't get it done. Averages mean nothing when you NEED TO SCORE. There were games last year (like philly in game one), where if brett had more then second and a half on a throw it was a miracle. Crappy teams can cahnge stuff, hence averages don't mean much to me in the end.

Still, I just expect rodgers to do enough to win games. We finish 6 - 10, with QB being the only significant change, it's going to rough on Rodgers from a media, and fan, standpoint, and rougher on managment if favre does well with the jets.

But that is the difference between a 16 year vet, and a 1st year starter. Live with the downfalls so he learns. We went through plenty with Brett.

We went through plenty with Brett, while still winning football games. I believe it's only what, one losing season under Favre in 16, and that within his last 4 seasons of palying? Heh, thats why he is held to a higher standard. I don't expect a allstar out there, but I expect winning football, so from him I expect to win football games. We got really use to winning, even in favre's struggles he still found ways to win games.

Thats all anyone expects, to win. I just am, like many other people upset, am unsure that Rodgers will be able to get it done. We'll see. He can't really do any worse for us then Alex Smith has done for the 49ers.

[Fosco33]

Recall, even for the first few years with Brett - there were times when Holmy was gonna pull Favre for Brunell. Expect some poor play this year at times by everyone. People get better due practice and game experience over time.

Personally, who cares if they lost. The preseason record predictive value in regular or post-season records.

Since 2000, here's the Packers pre-season verses regular season records:
2000 (2-2) vs. (9-7)
2001 (2-2) vs. (12-4)
2002 (3-1) vs. (12-4)
2003 (2-3) vs. (10-6)
2004 (1-3) vs. (10-6)
2005 (2-2) vs. (4-12)
2006 (1-3) vs. (8-8)
2007 (2-2) vs. (13-3)

Since 2000, only one year ('02) were the Packers better than .500 during preseason. Packers were 1-3 twice ('04 and '06).

[Scott Campbell]

Personally, who cares if they lost.



Any of those looking for excuses to call for Ted's head.

[packerbacker1234]

Personally, who cares if they lost.



Any of those looking for excuses to call for Ted's head.

No no, it has nothing to do with losing a preseason game. No one really cares all too much wether we win these games or not. It has to do with the performance of the starters while on the field - and it wasn't pretty.

[Pacopete4]

ya.. we really stunk

[Gunakor]

We went through plenty with Brett, while still winning football games. I believe it's only what, one losing season under Favre in 16, and that within his last 4 seasons of palying? Heh, thats why he is held to a higher standard. I don't expect a allstar out there, but I expect winning football, so from him I expect to win football games. We got really use to winning, even in favre's struggles he still found ways to win games.

Thats all anyone expects, to win. I just am, like many other people upset, am unsure that Rodgers will be able to get it done. We'll see. He can't really do any worse for us then Alex Smith has done for the 49ers.

PB, our first team defense has not allowed a TD in preseason play since 2006. I think that, even if Rodgers struggles a bit, we are going to win alot of football games once the season begins. That first team defense we put on the field won't give up many points. They haven't given up any so far this preseason. None at all. So Rodgers will be able to make a few mistakes and learn from them as the season goes on. This football TEAM will be okay. We'll win games.

Favre's first full season as a starter was a 9-7 campaign, and that was with a much worse football team around him. With a top tier defense in place in 2008, I see no reason at all why this team won't win at least 9 games.

[Brohm]

Sure did stink. But, MM stated he didn't have the team prepared and SF threw the kitchen sink at us (Nolan wanted to show up MM?). As bad as they looked I'm glad we got it out of the way now. Lot's to work on this week and will ultimately make everyone better (and cut some of that dead weight). Also can nip ANY over-confidence right in the bud.

Did Moll play any at RT? I switched over to watch the relay. I remember in the SD klunker he was one of the bright spots going against their 3-4 and stone-walling Merriman.

[Noodle]

Here's what you could tell.

For the second week, there was lots of interior pressure on the pass rush. Not good. It happened last year on occassion (like on Brett's stumblin' bumblin flip in the Seattle game -- Collegdge got used but Favre made a play), but I was hoping for more stoutness this year.

For the second week, there was pressure from the ends. This is surprising to me, but I know what I saw. What the heck is up with Tausch and Cliffy? People are saying Arod should have rolled more, but he was getting pinched on the ends. No where to run, no where to hide.

Arod did hold the ball too long on occassion, especially after he got whacked a few times. This I expect from a young qb.

Here's what I couldn't tell:

Everyone knows we are a slant-heavy offense. Were the 49ers sitting on the slants and taking them away, causing hesitation from Arod? Or were our receivers not getting releases off the line, screwing up the timing and again causing Arod to wait? Couldn't tell from the tube.

Why we didn't screen more to beat the rush. We had a great third down screen, but I don't remember one after that. Are we saving that package for the regular season?

[Lurker64]

No no, it has nothing to do with losing a preseason game. No one really cares all too much wether we win these games or not. It has to do with the performance of the starters while on the field - and it wasn't pretty.

I have to say, based on last year at least, the defense is much better with Hawk and Pickett in the game (and worse without them) and the offense is much better with Grant and Jennings in the game (and worse without them).

At least four people held out of the preseason game for minor injuries (as is standard practice for preseason) are four of the major cogs on both sides of the ball.

There is no way we went 13-3 last year without Grant, Jennings, Hawk, and Pickett.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm surprised they didn't have Arod roll-out more often, just to give the rushers something to think about. He throws well on the run. Maybe they wanted to limit game film for other teams to watch.


There were a couple plays where Arod held on to the ball too long. Mostly I think the WHOLE pocket was collapsing so fast he didn't even have a throwing lane.

Arod is not a polished QB, he never started an NFL game in his life. We have to put up with a learning curve, and hope he is good enough to win.

[falco]

I'm surprised they didn't have Arod roll-out more often, just to give the rushers something to think about. He throws well on the run. Maybe they wanted to limit game film for other teams to watch.


There were a couple plays where Arod held on to the ball too long. Mostly I think the WHOLE pocket was collapsing so fast he didn't even have a throwing lane.

Arod is not a polished QB, he never started an NFL game in his life. We have to put up with a learning curve, and hope he is good enough to win.

for once harlan says something worth listening to

you're right on this one blue dog, rodgers did play for shit, but we can't expect his play to make up for the rest of the team sucking either...he's not going to be able to hoist the team on his back

this first year will have its ups and downs regardless

[Harlan Huckleby]

for once harlan says something worth listening to

ah go fuck yourself. that's a tired line.

[falco]

for once harlan says something worth listening to

ah go fuck yourself. that's a tired line.

sorry harlan, i was being sarcastic, i enjoy your regular contributions

[Harlan Huckleby]

sorry for being sensitive, but i hear that line often from various weenies.

[Rastak]

sorry for being sensitive, but i hear that line often from various weenies.


I think you should go back to being the happy bafoon!

(do you recall that line)?

[Harlan Huckleby]

yes, that rings a bell.

[falco]

yes, that rings a bell.

you know what rings a bell for me harlan??? back on JSO when you told me I was the one poster who contributed nothing to the forum, then later claimed LJ hacked your account...i've never forgotten my friend

[Harlan Huckleby]

Well, I wasn;t lying, because I was LJ.

[Rastak]

yes, that rings a bell.


Not sure why I remember that but someone said on JSO you should stop offering serious commentary since you know nothing and should go back to being funny and you said something like" Oh sure, I'll just be the happy bafoon".

[Harlan Huckleby]

it's true that I know less than most about football.

[cpk1994]

it's true that I know less than most about football.
If it makes you feel any better, you are still miles ahead of Woody and Merlin. :)

[Partial]

it's true that I know less than most about football.
If it makes you feel any better, you are still miles ahead of Woody and Merlin. :)

This is bs. Stop. Why take a blatant attack when they aren't even referenced? I know I'm guilty of it myself, and we all need to stop this. There is no need for it.

[BallHawk]

Well, I wasn;t lying, because I was LJ.

WHAT???????????

[HarveyWallbangers]

Since 2000, here's the Packers pre-season verses regular season records:
2000 (2-2) vs. (9-7)
2001 (2-2) vs. (12-4)
2002 (3-1) vs. (12-4)
2003 (2-3) vs. (10-6)
2004 (1-3) vs. (10-6)
2005 (2-2) vs. (4-12)
2006 (1-3) vs. (8-8)
2007 (2-2) vs. (13-3)

Since 2000, only one year ('02) were the Packers better than .500 during preseason. Packers were 1-3 twice ('04 and '06).

You even missed this:

1999 (4-0) vs. (8-8) with Ray Rhodes.

I learned a long time ago that preseason doesn't mean a whole lot. You can evaluate individual players, but the rest is a grand scheme by the NFL owners to line their pocketbooks. I think I learned it's meaningless after the Bills went winless a couple of times in the preseason when they were making their 4 consecutive Super Bowl appearances. We go through this every year, win or lose. Don't get too high when they look good in the preseason. Don't get too low when they look bad.

[GrnBay007]

it's true that I know less than most about football.
If it makes you feel any better, you are still miles ahead of Woody and Merlin. :)

This is bs. Stop. Why take a blatant attack when they aren't even referenced? I know I'm guilty of it myself, and we all need to stop this. There is no need for it.

You are right Partial. No need to attack or insult anyone for their views. Simply agree to disagree in a respectable manner.

[Freak Out]

Since 2000, here's the Packers pre-season verses regular season records:
2000 (2-2) vs. (9-7)
2001 (2-2) vs. (12-4)
2002 (3-1) vs. (12-4)
2003 (2-3) vs. (10-6)
2004 (1-3) vs. (10-6)
2005 (2-2) vs. (4-12)
2006 (1-3) vs. (8-8)
2007 (2-2) vs. (13-3)

Since 2000, only one year ('02) were the Packers better than .500 during preseason. Packers were 1-3 twice ('04 and '06).

You even missed this:

1999 (4-0) vs. (8-8) with Ray Rhodes.

I learned a long time ago that preseason doesn't mean a whole lot. You can evaluate individual players, but the rest is a grand scheme by the NFL owners to line their pocketbooks. I think I learned it's meaningless after the Bills went winless a couple of times in the preseason when they were making their 4 consecutive Super Bowl appearances. We go through this every year, win or lose. Don't get too high when they look good in the preseason. Don't get too low when they look bad.

No injuries. That's the key...working the kinks out without getting people killed. Record means zilch. Were there any this game?

[Zool]

it's true that I know less than most about football.
If it makes you feel any better, you are still miles ahead of Woody and Merlin. :)

This is bs. Stop. Why take a blatant attack when they aren't even referenced? I know I'm guilty of it myself, and we all need to stop this. There is no need for it.

You are right Partial. No need to attack or insult anyone for their views. Simply agree to disagree in a respectable manner.

NO MORE JOKES!

[LL2]

I'm surprised they didn't have Arod roll-out more often, just to give the rushers something to think about. He throws well on the run. Maybe they wanted to limit game film for other teams to watch.


There were a couple plays where Arod held on to the ball too long. Mostly I think the WHOLE pocket was collapsing so fast he didn't even have a throwing lane.

Arod is not a polished QB, he never started an NFL game in his life. We have to put up with a learning curve, and hope he is good enough to win.

There will be a learning curve and I'm sure most expect one. I wonder how many remember the stinker's Favre had during his first few years, and he had plenty. Many wanted him yanked back in the early 90's. The M3/Rodgers relationship is very similar to the Holmgren/Favre relationship. Holmgren stuck by Favre sink or swim in Favre's early years. I even recall articles stating that by Holmgren and Favre. Hopefully the current coach/QB relationship will produce another 1 or 2 SB wins in the next 5-6 years.

[Noodle]

On the "why no roll-outs" thing, a couple of points.

Because the pocket was getting pinched on the outside as well as collapsed from the inside, Arod didn't have much chance to escape by scampering outside. He was fenced in.

I'm guessing MM wants Arod to work on his pocket presence and feel. They probably already know the guy can scoot and shoot. What he needs to develop is the sense for how long he can hold on to the ball in the pocket. So I think it's smart at this point to have him learn his trade.

Finally, I'm also guessing MM is keepin' it vanilla at this point. No need to show the Vikes how the protection moves with a roll out. The rat fink bastards.

[Carolina_Packer]

You just hope for something more positive coming out of the last two games to build on for the season. You don't doubt to creep in before week 1. I think they will shake off the piss poor performance from the other night and have two fairly good games. The record doesn't matter. As long as their heads are held up. It only matters how they bust out of the gate in week 1 and beyond. As long as they are ready, who cares if they win these games. Just don't get mauled by the likes of San Fran again.

[bobblehead]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

I agree 100%.....why did favre throw more picks than any QB in history again?? Why is he the all time turnover leader in the NFL history??

[KYPack]

On the "why no roll-outs" thing, a couple of points.

Because the pocket was getting pinched on the outside as well as collapsed from the inside, Arod didn't have much chance to escape by scampering outside. He was fenced in.

I'm guessing MM wants Arod to work on his pocket presence and feel. They probably already know the guy can scoot and shoot. What he needs to develop is the sense for how long he can hold on to the ball in the pocket. So I think it's smart at this point to have him learn his trade.

Finally, I'm also guessing MM is keepin' it vanilla at this point. No need to show the Vikes how the protection moves with a roll out. The rat fink bastards.

Noodle for leader.

The tackles had bad games, too.

Happened last season early. It'll take awhile to get this thing in gear.

Meanwhile, we all gotta suffer.

[Pugger]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:

[Bretsky]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD

[Pacopete4]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Perfect solution... win 2 and you'll have some on here telling us he's better than Brett ever was..

[channtheman]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Perfect solution... win 2 and you'll have some on here telling us he's better than Brett ever was..

Which if he were able to do so wouldn't necessarily be so far fetched. Good QB's lead their team to the playoffs year after year. Great QB's win Superbowls.

[Gunakor]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Just a question for ya B. Suppose Favre would have lost to the Pats in XXXI. He'd still be the all time leader in damn near every QB catagory, but would not have a ring to show for it. Would we still love Favre? I mean, Dolphins fans still love Marino, even though he never won the big one. Does Rodgers HAVE to win a SB for us to love him, or does he just have to play well?

[Pacopete4]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Just a question for ya B. Suppose Favre would have lost to the Pats in XXXI. He'd still be the all time leader in damn near every QB catagory, but would not have a ring to show for it. Would we still love Favre? I mean, Dolphins fans still love Marino, even though he never won the big one. Does Rodgers HAVE to win a SB for us to love him, or does he just have to play well?


I think judging QB's on superbowl wins is absolutely absurd... why don't we judge other positions on SB rings? It's a double standard.

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

[Chevelle2]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Just a question for ya B. Suppose Favre would have lost to the Pats in XXXI. He'd still be the all time leader in damn near every QB catagory, but would not have a ring to show for it. Would we still love Favre? I mean, Dolphins fans still love Marino, even though he never won the big one. Does Rodgers HAVE to win a SB for us to love him, or does he just have to play well?


I think judging QB's on superbowl wins is absolutely absurd... why don't we judge other positions on SB rings? It's a double standard.

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

Try, Unitas, Manning, then Favre. In that order.

[Chevelle2]

And how the hell is Elway on that list?


:shock:

[Gunakor]

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

Try, Unitas, Manning, then Favre. In that order.

Agreed that Unitas is the best of all time. But I'd put Brady over Manning, and neither of them would be second IMO. Marino threw a prettier ball, Otto Graham won a much higher percentage of games, etc. It's highly subjective, so I can't really decide who the next best after Unitas is. But I don't think it's Manning or Brady.

[Chevelle2]

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

Try, Unitas, Manning, then Favre. In that order.

Agreed that Unitas is the best of all time. But I'd put Brady over Manning, and neither of them would be second IMO. Marino threw a prettier ball, Otto Graham won a much higher percentage of games, etc. It's highly subjective, so I can't really decide who the next best after Unitas is. But I don't think it's Manning or Brady.

I do agree with you - its highly subjective....but Elway? Cmon Paco, i know you can do better.

[Zool]

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

Try, Unitas, Manning, then Favre. In that order.

Agreed that Unitas is the best of all time. But I'd put Brady over Manning, and neither of them would be second IMO. Marino threw a prettier ball, Otto Graham won a much higher percentage of games, etc. It's highly subjective, so I can't really decide who the next best after Unitas is. But I don't think it's Manning or Brady.

I do agree with you - its highly subjective....but Elway? Cmon Paco, i know you can do better.

I know quite a few Bronco fans, and they all say "Favre, not even in the top 10".

[Gunakor]

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...

Try, Unitas, Manning, then Favre. In that order.

Agreed that Unitas is the best of all time. But I'd put Brady over Manning, and neither of them would be second IMO. Marino threw a prettier ball, Otto Graham won a much higher percentage of games, etc. It's highly subjective, so I can't really decide who the next best after Unitas is. But I don't think it's Manning or Brady.

I do agree with you - its highly subjective....but Elway? Cmon Paco, i know you can do better.

I know quite a few Bronco fans, and they all say "Favre, not even in the top 10".

I don't think either Favre or Elway are top 5, but think both might be top 10.

Unitas, Graham, Marino, Montana, and Manning/Brady (whichever between those two) I think make up the top 5.

[Chevelle2]

IMO, I take Favre over Montana, because of the ridiculous amount of talent Montana had to work with, combined with his lack of mind blowing numbers and propensity to get hurt.

I have no respect for Brady, and have a hard time putting him in the top 10 even, because again - no mind blowing numbers save one year, and also, we will never really know how much Spygate helped him.

JMO.

[PackerBlues]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

I agree 100%.....why did favre throw more picks than any QB in history again?? Why is he the all time turnover leader in the NFL history??

:roll: :roll: Favre threw 3 times as many passes as the guy who previously held the "INT. record", before earning the record for himself. But I guess if you wanted to leave out that little fact, it does make your arguement sound a little better. :roll: :roll:

[PackerBlues]

IMO, I take Favre over Montana, because of the ridiculous amount of talent Montana had to work with, combined with his lack of mind blowing numbers and propensity to get hurt.

I have no respect for Brady, and have a hard time putting him in the top 10 even, because again - no mind blowing numbers save one year, and also, we will never really know how much Spygate helped him.

JMO.

Having Moss to "lob the bomb" to, doesn't hurt Brady's stats any either. :bang:

[Gunakor]

IMO, I take Favre over Montana, because of the ridiculous amount of talent Montana had to work with, combined with his lack of mind blowing numbers and propensity to get hurt.

I have no respect for Brady, and have a hard time putting him in the top 10 even, because again - no mind blowing numbers save one year, and also, we will never really know how much Spygate helped him.

JMO.

He won 3 SB's with guys like Jabbar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell as his WR's. And Antowain Smith as his RB. Manning only won 1 SB with guys like Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James and, recently, Reggie Wayne. IMO the Colts have had better teams up until the last year or two, especially on offense. Yet the Pats were the ones winning. I have to give the edge to Brady for that reason alone.

Although I can understand your point about spygate, even after it was revealed the Pats were winning. 18 straight games as a matter of fact, and most of them weren't even close. Only on Madden have I seen such dominance on such a regular basis. So I'm not sure just how much of an effect spygate had on thier success.

[Gunakor]

IMO, I take Favre over Montana, because of the ridiculous amount of talent Montana had to work with, combined with his lack of mind blowing numbers and propensity to get hurt.

I have no respect for Brady, and have a hard time putting him in the top 10 even, because again - no mind blowing numbers save one year, and also, we will never really know how much Spygate helped him.

JMO.

Having Moss to "lob the bomb" to, doesn't hurt Brady's stats any either. :bang:


Brady didn't have Moss when he was winning SB's.

[Bretsky]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Just a question for ya B. Suppose Favre would have lost to the Pats in XXXI. He'd still be the all time leader in damn near every QB catagory, but would not have a ring to show for it. Would we still love Favre? I mean, Dolphins fans still love Marino, even though he never won the big one. Does Rodgers HAVE to win a SB for us to love him, or does he just have to play well?

A very valid question; if Favre didn't win the Super Bowl for us I would still cherish his accomplishments. But I'll say it over and over and over.

Sports is about winning championships for me. And if you are close you seize the moment. It's why I was in favor of bringing Favre back.

I havent' witnessed the dam Brewers or Bucks win one. In fact besides the one I've seen the Packers win I have to go to UW Badgers College Hockey as my next most notable.

So for me Ron Wolf, Mike Holmgren, Brett Favre, and that team earn a pedastal above the rest.

I'll appreiciate AROD and his accomplishments if he does well; but he will not be on my A list.........nor will TT.......without a championship :!:

[Bretsky]

I have a feeling nothing Aaron does will make some folks happy. He'll be blasted even if he wins because he doesn't yet have Favre's pocket awareness. He'll be scorned if he gets sacked. God help him if he throws a pick. :beat: This will continue as long as BF plays, so we only have to put up with threads calling AR a bust for only one season... :wink:


Ah just win a dam Super Bowl already and we'll all love AROD


Just a question for ya B. Suppose Favre would have lost to the Pats in XXXI. He'd still be the all time leader in damn near every QB catagory, but would not have a ring to show for it. Would we still love Favre? I mean, Dolphins fans still love Marino, even though he never won the big one. Does Rodgers HAVE to win a SB for us to love him, or does he just have to play well?


I think judging QB's on superbowl wins is absolutely absurd... why don't we judge other positions on SB rings? It's a double standard.

Your top 3 passers this games seen are Favre, Elway, Marino in no order, and thats that...


you are changing what I deem as the topic of being a fan; judging them and loving a player as a fan are two different things and I think Gunnakor was referring more to the fan side

[th87]

We had a golden opportunity last year. We blew it, thanks partly to frantic QB play down the stretch.

Opportunities like this don't come by often, and even if we did have Favre, who's to say that he'd get us there again? And if he did get us there, who's to say he wouldn't have another playoff meltdown? Let's face it - he's melted down in every playoff game we lost in this decade.

The Packers front office deemed that it was time to move on, and decided that Favre would not get us to a Super Bowl. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. But I respect their decision, because they've done well so far.

[hoosier]

Excuses are for losers. Make a play to create time.

I agree 100%.....why did favre throw more picks than any QB in history again?? Why is he the all time turnover leader in the NFL history??

:roll: :roll: Favre threw 3 times as many passes as the guy who previously held the "INT. record", before earning the record for himself. But I guess if you wanted to leave out that little fact, it does make your arguement sound a little better. :roll: :roll:

Don't forget that the guy who previously held the record, George Blanda, played in an era when interception rates were much higher. Comparing Favre's interception % with Blanda's without taking into consideration how each one relates to league averages at the time is pretty much meaningless.

[cpk1994]

We had a golden opportunity last year. We blew it, thanks partly to frantic QB play down the stretch.

Opportunities like this don't come by often, and even if we did have Favre, who's to say that he'd get us there again? And if he did get us there, who's to say he wouldn't have another playoff meltdown? Let's face it - he's melted down in every playoff game we lost in this decade.

The Packers front office deemed that it was time to move on, and decided that Favre would not get us to a Super Bowl. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. But I respect their decision, because they've done well so far.I agree, also becuase they have demonstrated this is a TEAM of 53 players and not 1 player then 52 others. It was difficult, but had to be done. TT/M3 will be judged based on W/L more closely now, and I think they are up to the task.

[The Gunshooter]

If I was going to put together an all-time GB team to play for the title Bart Starr would be my QB, not Favre. Favre is too mentally unstable.

[SnakeLH2006]

wow guys... Arod had plenty of time to throw...


If anything blame the WR's for not getting open or something..



But blaming the Oline for those sacks is insane...

....or throw the damn ball away. I'm getting flashbacks of David Carr dammit. :cry: