DNC

[BallHawk]

The overhyped media event deserves its own thread.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I hate conventions. I'm in blackout mode all week.

[retailguy]

The overhyped media event deserves its own thread.


Overhyped? Nothing is overhyped at all. You can't overhype getting an opportunity to watch our future savior live.... :roll:

[BallHawk]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

[retailguy]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

[HowardRoark]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

I liked his boat.

[retailguy]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

I liked his boat.

That's part your boat, and mine too. Didn't he name it "The Taxpayer"?

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's part your boat, and mine too. Didn't he name it "The Taxpayer"?

Nice.

[mraynrand]

I hate conventions. I'm in blackout mode all week.

Truer words were never written.

[Joemailman]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

Kennedy? I thought he meant Ted Thompson.

[texaspackerbacker]

What the hell is wrong with telling it like it is, wishing enemies--those assholes, foreign and domestic, who are doing harm to the country--to be dead? Are we that fucking politically correct these days that we can't express true feelings?

As for their stupid convention, trotting out Ted--that rhymes with dead--Kennedy is not gonna stir up the sympathy and support they think. There is massive residual hate in this country for Kennedy, and it's well justified.

The Dems also have the minor misfortune of having their big show right after the Olympics when a lot of people are gonna be worn out with big spectacular events. It's a little bit ironic that the pro-Communist political party is gonna look small time compared to the Chicoms and THEIR big show.

[BallHawk]

Good speech by Michelle. I thought the thing with Sacha was cheesy (I'm assuming it was staged) and I didn't really care for that. Saw a few tears in the audience, hopefully this speech brings back some of the Hillary-McCain traitors.

I agree that tonight was soft, though. The Dems can't have another DNC like Boston was in 2004. Hopefully they'll step it up over the next 3 days.

[MJZiggy]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

Kennedy? I thought he meant Ted Thompson.

:lol: You mean I wasn't the only one...

[Joemailman]

What the hell is wrong with telling it like it is, wishing enemies--those assholes, foreign and domestic, who are doing harm to the country--to be dead? Are we that fucking politically correct these days that we can't express true feelings?

As for their stupid convention, trotting out Ted--that rhymes with dead--Kennedy is not gonna stir up the sympathy and support they think. There is massive residual hate in this country for Kennedy, and it's well justified.

The Dems also have the minor misfortune of having their big show right after the Olympics when a lot of people are gonna be worn out with big spectacular events. It's a little bit ironic that the pro-Communist political party is gonna look small time compared to the Chicoms and THEIR big show.

There are reports that the Denver police have foiled a possible assassination attempt on Obama. http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_10301333

I hate to bring you the bad news. I suppose in your mind the police who made the arrest must hate America.

[Freak Out]

What the hell is wrong with telling it like it is, wishing enemies--those assholes, foreign and domestic, who are doing harm to the country--to be dead? Are we that fucking politically correct these days that we can't express true feelings?

As for their stupid convention, trotting out Ted--that rhymes with dead--Kennedy is not gonna stir up the sympathy and support they think. There is massive residual hate in this country for Kennedy, and it's well justified.

The Dems also have the minor misfortune of having their big show right after the Olympics when a lot of people are gonna be worn out with big spectacular events. It's a little bit ironic that the pro-Communist political party is gonna look small time compared to the Chicoms and THEIR big show.

There are reports that the Denver police have foiled a possible assassination attempt on Obama. http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_10301333

I hate to bring you the bad news. I suppose in your mind the police who made the arrest must hate America.

Tex is still posting so they haven't caught him yet.

[bobblehead]

Robert Novak has a similar condition to kennedy, they are both on borrowed time. I don't want ted to die now, he is basicallly done doing damage, I just wish he had retired before he started tinkering with the medical system.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tell me the damned libs wouldn't dance on the grave of Rush or any good pro-American conservative--especially one who dies while still actively doing good--for our side/harm--for their side.

This namby pamby political correctness shit causing people to whine about others expressing it when they don't have the balls to is kinda ridiculous.

I didn't read the article, but the headline on Yahoo says the guy who was after Obama was not a "credible threat". Right now, no "credible threat" is needed, as he ain't gonna get elected. If, however, the media manages to somehow get him in, then, very likely, somebody will get him. It wouldn't be me. I'm peaceful :twisted:. I'll be cheering for the perp, though.

[sheepshead]

Tell me the damned libs wouldn't dance on the grave of Rush or any good pro-American conservative--especially one who dies while still actively doing good--for our side/harm--for their side.

This namby pamby political correctness shit causing people to whine about others expressing it when they don't have the balls to is kinda ridiculous.

I didn't read the article, but the headline on Yahoo says the guy who was after Obama was not a "credible threat". Right now, no "credible threat" is needed, as he ain't gonna get elected. If, however, the media manages to somehow get him in, then, very likely, somebody will get him. It wouldn't be me. I'm peaceful :twisted:. I'll be cheering for the perp, though.

Google the comments about Novak and Tony Snow. Disgusting.

[sheepshead]

Good speech by Michelle. I thought the thing with Sacha was cheesy (I'm assuming it was staged) and I didn't really care for that. Saw a few tears in the audience, hopefully this speech brings back some of the Hillary-McCain traitors.

I agree that tonight was soft, though. The Dems can't have another DNC like Boston was in 2004. Hopefully they'll step it up over the next 3 days.


Most Americans would be unable to say the comments she did about her country, even as a gaffe. She repeated them three times. That charade last night doesn't change a thing. Her and her husband are angry extremists and have no business in federal government.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wake me when Reverend Wright takes the podium.

[LL2]

Whatever your opinion is of Ted (and I know we have some extreme haters in here) it was great to see him out there.

Nobody wants to see anyone dead. Well, except for Tex...

I despise Ted Kennedy, but I don't want to see him die. Retiring would be nice, but dead? No.

Kennedy? I thought he meant Ted Thompson.

:lol: You mean I wasn't the only one...

Me three!

[mraynrand]

If, however, the media manages to somehow get him in, then, very likely, somebody will get him. It wouldn't be me. I'm peaceful :twisted:. I'll be cheering for the perp, though.

What is wrong with you? If you're here to argue for the conservative cause, don't you realize that this poisons everything you write, and contaminates other conservatives by association. Plus, it's just plain stupid, like wacko libs trying to impeach Bush - if they succeeded, they get Cheney and whomever he appoints as V.P. If Obama becomes president and were assassinated, God forbid, we'd get Biden and his appointee. Finally, most of the wackos who have succeeded in killing presidents have been commies or other radicals, who you profess to hate. Keep this crap up and you just lose any credibility. I want Obama defeated politically, but were he president, I'd gladly sacrifice my life to prevent him from being assassinated. Any good conservative would.

[HowardRoark]

If, however, the media manages to somehow get him in, then, very likely, somebody will get him. It wouldn't be me. I'm peaceful :twisted:. I'll be cheering for the perp, though.

What is wrong with you? If you're here to argue for the conservative cause, don't you realize that this poisons everything you write, and contaminates other conservatives by association. Plus, it's just plain stupid, like wacko libs trying to impeach Bush - if they succeeded, they get Cheney and whomever he appoints as V.P. If Obama becomes president and were assassinated, God forbid, we'd get Biden and his appointee. Finally, most of the wackos who have succeeded in killing presidents have been commies or other radicals, who you profess to hate. Keep this crap up and you just lose any credibility. I want Obama defeated politically, but were he president, I'd gladly sacrifice my life to prevent him from being assassinated. Any good conservative would.

Well said.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the conservative circle jerk is forming up in a thread about the Dem convention.

This is unholy.

[swede]

the conservative circle jerk is forming up in a thread about the Dem convention.

This is unholy.

It is not truly unholy until the fifth conservative arrives to complete the pentagram and set fire to the donkey image with a candle made from Dick Cheney's ear wax.

[sheepshead]

See Ya Barry!


PRINCETON, NJ -- It's official: Barack Obama has received no bounce in voter support out of his selection of Sen. Joe Biden to be his vice presidential running mate.

Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 23-25, the first three-day period falling entirely after Obama's Saturday morning vice presidential announcement, shows 46% of national registered voters backing John McCain and 44% supporting Obama, not appreciably different from the previous week's standing for both candidates. This is the first time since Obama clinched the nomination in early June, though, that McCain has held any kind of advantage over Obama in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.

[retailguy]

the conservative circle jerk is forming up in a thread about the Dem convention.

This is unholy.

It is not truly unholy until the fifth conservative arrives to complete the pentagram and set fire to the donkey image with a candle made from Dick Cheney's ear wax.

Ok, I'm here and I have some ear wax. Since I don't have the secret handshake, can someone help me get started?

[LL2]

I love all the Clinton causing division and rumors she's still PO at Obama Moma.

[hurleyfan]

I love all the Clinton causing division and rumors she's still PO at Obama Moma.

Hillary is a scary proposition... Lots of skeletons in her closet (and some dead guys too right?)

[Scott Campbell]

the conservative circle jerk is forming up in a thread about the Dem convention.

This is unholy.


Harlan's just mad that he got left out of the circle jerk again.

[BallHawk]

I likes me some Kucinich.....

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/08/26/dnc.main/art.kucinich.ap.jpg

[BallHawk]

Buchanan getting booed on MSNBC. Ah, you gotta love live "studio audiences".

[packinpatland]

I will like Ted alittle more when the proposed wind farms appear in his 'front yard'...Nantucket Sound.........................like that will ever happen. :roll:

[BallHawk]

Damn good speech. I have a lot more respect for Hillary now than I did two hours ago.

Now let's see what Obama says on Thursday. He needs to match this. As one teary-eyed Clinton supporter said "I will not vote for John McCain. I will give Obama a chance, but he needs to connect with me and he has not done that yet."

:drma: :drma: :drma:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Damn good speech. I have a lot more respect for Hillary now than I did two hours ago.

Now let's see what Obama says on Thursday. He needs to match this. As one teary-eyed Clinton supporter said "I will not vote for John McCain. I will give Obama a chance, but he needs to connect with me and he has not done that yet."

:drma: :drma: :drma:

If you get a chance, pick up the Atlantic and read about the internal squables of the Clinton campaign. Also a good one in VF.

For someone who thumped loudly about being ready for the job (ready to lead) she did a crappy job with her campaign team.

[BallHawk]

Mark Penn was the death of the Clinton campaign.

[Scott Campbell]

Hillary - what a dork.

[VegasPackFan]

I likes me some Kucinich.....

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/08/26/dnc.main/art.kucinich.ap.jpg

He forgot to wear his tinfoil hat....

[Harlan Huckleby]

As one teary-eyed Clinton supporter said "I will not vote for John McCain. I will give Obama a chance, but he needs to connect with me and he has not done that yet."

gag me with a spoon.

any voter who is waiting for another speech from Obama to make up their mind is a sheep waiting to be herded.

A significant percentage of Clinton supporters are never going to follow the huckster. Sure, a few woolly-headed lambs will stray. Baaah! Baaaah!

[mraynrand]

If you get a chance, pick up the Atlantic and read about the internal squables of the Clinton campaign. Also a good one in VF.

A Must Read. Nothing like reading about the continuation of the 'endless campaign' surrounding the deranged Partridge Mother




http://www.yuddy.com/articleimages/shirley%20jonesNjY2.jpg

[Harlan Huckleby]

Why has Jeremiah Wright not spoken yet? He is one of the most important figures in Barrack's life.

Maybe they are saving him for the big finale at the football stadium. Nobody gets the juices flowing like The Bullfrog.

[LL2]

What is interesting is that Obama appears to be getting no boost from his VP pick or the convention, and usually a candidate gets a little boost from those two. I wonder if Obama's numbers drop in a week or two.

[retailguy]

What is interesting is that Obama appears to be getting no boost from his VP pick or the convention, and usually a candidate gets a little boost from those two. I wonder if Obama's numbers drop in a week or two.

If they follow trends they will. What will be interesting to watch is how those figures are "spun" or "not reported". That should give us a truer picture.

Does McCain get a "bump" from the convention? That'll be interesting too.

[HowardRoark]

Is he jumping the shark?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=5660266

[Scott Campbell]

Does McCain get a "bump" from the convention? That'll be interesting too.



From the Democratic convention?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That would be hilarious.

[retailguy]

Does McCain get a "bump" from the convention? That'll be interesting too.



From the Democratic convention?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That would be hilarious.

No, no. From HIS convention, silly. Would say a lot if Osama didn't get a bump, which he hasn't so far, and McCain did...

Have wife number 4 beat you for a while. Someone told me she's the testy one.

[mraynrand]

Is he jumping the shark?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=5660266

It's the site of the famous "My Brett...." speech.


"My Obama...."

http://www.deannafavre4hope.com/resources/dsc0140retlrr.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is he jumping the shark?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=5660266

People saying "jumping the shark" have jumped the shark.

[Joemailman]

Why has Jeremiah Wright not spoken yet? He is one of the most important figures in Barrack's life.

Maybe they are saving him for the big finale at the football stadium. Nobody gets the juices flowing like The Bullfrog.

He has about as much chance of getting speaking time as John McCain's ex-wife does at the Republican Convention. You know, the one he dumped to marry the multi-millionaire who financed his first campaign?

[Harlan Huckleby]

that's called leadership, my friend.

[sheepshead]

I hear his brother Brrroooooke Obama is flying in from Africa to introduce the ONE!

[texaspackerbacker]

If, however, the media manages to somehow get him in, then, very likely, somebody will get him. It wouldn't be me. I'm peaceful :twisted:. I'll be cheering for the perp, though.

What is wrong with you? If you're here to argue for the conservative cause, don't you realize that this poisons everything you write, and contaminates other conservatives by association. Plus, it's just plain stupid, like wacko libs trying to impeach Bush - if they succeeded, they get Cheney and whomever he appoints as V.P. If Obama becomes president and were assassinated, God forbid, we'd get Biden and his appointee. Finally, most of the wackos who have succeeded in killing presidents have been commies or other radicals, who you profess to hate. Keep this crap up and you just lose any credibility. I want Obama defeated politically, but were he president, I'd gladly sacrifice my life to prevent him from being assassinated. Any good conservative would.

Well said.

Just because you guys don't have the courage--I won't defame your genitalia the way I do the lefties--to tell it like it is, that doesn't make you representative of true conservatives--make that true America-loving Americans. Several of you guys are beginning to remind me of the old elitist country club conservatives--Everett Dirkson-types, if you're old enough to remember, Bill Buckley, etc.--the kind of conservatives liberals liked and invited to their cocktail parties--because they were never a threat/never part of the solid majority of good normal Americans.

Go to any bar, barber shop, bowling alley, even a lot of churches--the places where REAL America-loving Americans gather, and you'll probably be shocked at how UNpolitically correct a helluva lot of us really are--a solid majority in this country, I'd venture to say.

And exactly WHY do you care what leftist assholes and gutless know-nothings think anyway?

If somebody is an enemy of America and Americans, I have no problem with them dying--preferably, painfully. Let me put it this way, if somebody could do a surgical strike and take out the Pepsi Center, I would be really broken up--really. Why? Because Shawn Hannity and his crew are there, of course. The leftist assholes convening there may just as well go to hell now as when their time comes naturally.

[BallHawk]

Do all Democrats deserve to go to hell? I hear it's a scary place down there. Is there anything I can do to avoid my fiery fate?

Tex, teach me how to become a real American. :roll:

[BallHawk]

The ONE is making a surprise appearance tonight.

[HowardRoark]

Just because you guys don't have the courage--I won't defame your genitalia the way I do the lefties--to tell it like it is, that doesn't make you representative of true conservatives--make that true America-loving Americans. Several of you guys are beginning to remind me of the old elitist country club conservatives--Everett Dirkson-types, if you're old enough to remember, Bill Buckley, etc.--the kind of conservatives liberals liked and invited to their cocktail parties--because they were never a threat/never part of the solid majority of good normal Americans.

Go to any bar, barber shop, bowling alley, even a lot of churches--the places where REAL America-loving Americans gather, and you'll probably be shocked at how UNpolitically correct a helluva lot of us really are--a solid majority in this country, I'd venture to say.

And exactly WHY do you care what leftist assholes and gutless know-nothings think anyway?

If somebody is an enemy of America and Americans, I have no problem with them dying--preferably, painfully. Let me put it this way, if somebody could do a surgical strike and take out the Pepsi Center, I would be really broken up--really. Why? Because Shawn Hannity and his crew are there, of course. The leftist assholes convening there may just as well go to hell now as when their time comes naturally.

I disagree with every word of this post.

[BallHawk]

HE is here! HE IS HERE!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just because you guys don't have the courage--I won't defame your genitalia the way I do the lefties--to tell it like it is, that doesn't make you representative of true conservatives--make that true America-loving Americans. Several of you guys are beginning to remind me of the old elitist country club conservatives--Everett Dirkson-types, if you're old enough to remember, Bill Buckley, etc.--the kind of conservatives liberals liked and invited to their cocktail parties--because they were never a threat/never part of the solid majority of good normal Americans.

Go to any bar, barber shop, bowling alley, even a lot of churches--the places where REAL America-loving Americans gather, and you'll probably be shocked at how UNpolitically correct a helluva lot of us really are--a solid majority in this country, I'd venture to say.

And exactly WHY do you care what leftist assholes and gutless know-nothings think anyway?

If somebody is an enemy of America and Americans, I have no problem with them dying--preferably, painfully. Let me put it this way, if somebody could do a surgical strike and take out the Pepsi Center, I would be really broken up--really. Why? Because Shawn Hannity and his crew are there, of course. The leftist assholes convening there may just as well go to hell now as when their time comes naturally.

I disagree with every word of this post.

Recall this post everytime you wonder why i can't be a republican.

[HowardRoark]

HE is here! HE IS HERE!

He made it, couldn't stay away.....

http://www.sydentcent.com.au/files/events/Anthony%20Robbins%20310.jpg

[Harlan Huckleby]

HE is here! HE IS HERE!

I just KNEW he's be there!

http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/jeremiah%20wright%206.jpg

[HowardRoark]

Barack Obama ist das Opium des Volkes.

[mraynrand]

Just because you guys don't have the courage--I won't defame your genitalia the way I do the lefties--to tell it like it is, that doesn't make you representative of true conservatives--make that true America-loving Americans. Several of you guys are beginning to remind me of the old elitist country club conservatives--Everett Dirkson-types, if you're old enough to remember, Bill Buckley, etc.--the kind of conservatives liberals liked and invited to their cocktail parties--because they were never a threat/never part of the solid majority of good normal Americans.

Go to any bar, barber shop, bowling alley, even a lot of churches--the places where REAL America-loving Americans gather, and you'll probably be shocked at how UNpolitically correct a helluva lot of us really are--a solid majority in this country, I'd venture to say.

And exactly WHY do you care what leftist assholes and gutless know-nothings think anyway?

If somebody is an enemy of America and Americans, I have no problem with them dying--preferably, painfully. Let me put it this way, if somebody could do a surgical strike and take out the Pepsi Center, I would be really broken up--really. Why? Because Shawn Hannity and his crew are there, of course. The leftist assholes convening there may just as well go to hell now as when their time comes naturally.

I disagree with every word of this post.

Recall this post everytime you wonder why i can't be a republican.

???you can't be a Republican because a good conservative like HR disagree with an extremist like Tex? That's just silly. You're not a Republican because most of your beliefs are 180 degrees away from conservativism. A lot of Republicans are the same way, but they are the only major party that conservatives can possibly support.

[mraynrand]

HE is here! HE IS HERE!


http://www.kosmosltd.net/images/obama_messiah.jpg


"The sky will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

[LL2]

HE is here! HE IS HERE!


http://www.kosmosltd.net/images/obama_messiah.jpg


"The sky will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

That must have been a glorious moment for the Dems to see their savior show up! :roll:

[mraynrand]

It will certainly be GLORIOUS!

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/05/obama420.jpg

[mraynrand]

The Obamessiah!

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/Obama/obama_glowing.jpg

[mraynrand]

Obama Conversion Stories

"Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama."

-- Dinesh Sharma

"We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra."

-- Chicago] Sun-Times

"A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"

-- Mark Morford

"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history"

-- Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

-- Barack Obama

"Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?"

-- Daily Kos

"He communicates God-like energy..."

-- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

"Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul"

-- Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."

-- Halle Berry

"A quantum leap in American consciousness"

-- Deepak Chopra
"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."

-- Gary Hart

"Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence."

-- Eve Konstantine

"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."

-- Chris Matthews

"[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time."

-- Toni Morrison

"Obama's finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don't even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves."

-- Ezra Klein

"Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind."

-- Gerald Campbell

"We're here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth."

-- Oprah Winfrey

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."

-- Bill Rush

[mraynrand]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Eu2jEveML._SS500_.jpg

[mraynrand]

Barack Obama's Waffle, Aritst's interpretation (Sold for $90)


http://www.faithmouse.com/barack_obama_waffle_blog.jpg

[mraynrand]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2477501236_4ca320760f.jpg

[mraynrand]

http://akidabroad.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/st-obama-of-assisi.jpg

[HowardRoark]

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."

-- Halle Berry

I need to revisit my thoughts on this guy.

[mraynrand]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/2331896335_75b0696690.jpg

[mraynrand]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2491320810_79081202aa.jpg

[LL2]

Barack Obama's Waffle, Aritst's interpretation (Sold for $90)


http://www.faithmouse.com/barack_obama_waffle_blog.jpg

Am I suppose to see his face? I don't, but he's a waffle al right.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just because you guys don't have the courage--I won't defame your genitalia the way I do the lefties--to tell it like it is, that doesn't make you representative of true conservatives--make that true America-loving Americans. Several of you guys are beginning to remind me of the old elitist country club conservatives--Everett Dirkson-types, if you're old enough to remember, Bill Buckley, etc.--the kind of conservatives liberals liked and invited to their cocktail parties--because they were never a threat/never part of the solid majority of good normal Americans.

Go to any bar, barber shop, bowling alley, even a lot of churches--the places where REAL America-loving Americans gather, and you'll probably be shocked at how UNpolitically correct a helluva lot of us really are--a solid majority in this country, I'd venture to say.

And exactly WHY do you care what leftist assholes and gutless know-nothings think anyway?

If somebody is an enemy of America and Americans, I have no problem with them dying--preferably, painfully. Let me put it this way, if somebody could do a surgical strike and take out the Pepsi Center, I would be really broken up--really. Why? Because Shawn Hannity and his crew are there, of course. The leftist assholes convening there may just as well go to hell now as when their time comes naturally.

I disagree with every word of this post.

Recall this post everytime you wonder why i can't be a republican.

???you can't be a Republican because a good conservative like HR disagree with an extremist like Tex? That's just silly. You're not a Republican because most of your beliefs are 180 degrees away from conservativism. A lot of Republicans are the same way, but they are the only major party that conservatives can possibly support.

Are you really that slow? It is the Tex post that i'm referring to.

There is no way i can associate myself with that type of small minded attitude, hate, and general wackiness.

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

[mraynrand]

"I want you to like me" --- Barack Obama


http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/obamaseal.jpg

[mraynrand]

Are you really that slow? It is the Tex post that i'm referring to.

There is no way i can associate myself with that type of small minded attitude, hate, and general wackiness.

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

I guess you're the slow one. Can't pick up on a joke. Tex is a loon, but the left has all the wackos on the Daily Kos who celebrate the demise of conservatives, call for the assassination and/or impeachment of Bush and Cheney, and write books on the subject. You have Ward Churchill, who calls the workers slaughtered in the two towers 'little Eichmanns.' And you choose to associate with them. Their compatriots in the media and entertainment industry (the visible ones) either agree with the loons, or grudgingly disavow them. Guys like Bill Maher, when confronted with Obama's statement that he is a man of faith, respond "I hope he's lying." etc. etc. So enjoy the loons YOU CHOOSE, like Ward Churchill, you little Eichmann.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Are you really that slow? It is the Tex post that i'm referring to.

There is no way i can associate myself with that type of small minded attitude, hate, and general wackiness.

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

I guess you're the slow one. Can't pick up on a joke. Tex is a loon, but the left has all the wackos on the Daily Kos who celebrate the demise of conservatives, call for the assassination and/or impeachment of Bush and Cheney, and write books on the subject. You have Ward Churchill, who calls the workers slaughtered in the two towers 'little Eichmanns.' And you choose to associate with them. Their compatriots in the media and entertainment industry (the visible ones) either agree with the loons, or grudgingly disavow them. Guys like Bill Maher, when confronted with Obama's statement that he is a man of faith, respond "I hope he's lying." etc. etc. So enjoy the loons YOU CHOOSE, like Ward Churchill, you little Eichmann.

If that was a joke..you reinforce the notion that conservs lack a sense of humor. Statements like, "that is silly," hardly qualify as joking.

Calling someone a name..i can live with. Openly advocating death to liberals, kicking them outta the country, etc....can't really live with that.

And, apparently...you and the rest of your elistist, effete conservs are outta touch with your base as per Tex lecture.

We'll be swinging from the trees when Tex has his way, but you and the rest of the intellectual conservs won't last much longer. :lol:

[mraynrand]

If that was a joke..you reinforce the notion that conservs lack a sense of humor. Statements like, "that is silly," hardly qualify as joking.

Calling someone a name..i can live with. Openly advocating death to liberals, kicking them outta the country, etc....can't really live with that.

And, apparently...you and the rest of your elistist, effete conservs are outta touch with your base as per Tex lecture.

We'll be swinging from the trees when Tex has his way, but you and the rest of the intellectual conservs won't last much longer. :lol:

Ha ha. The joke was, oh never mind. I can survive making a bad joke that a lefty doesn't get.

Ward Churchill said the Little Eichmanns got what they deserved; lefties on daily Kos advocate killing. Tex just says it wouldn't bother him if lefties died. Lefties like Peter Singer say that killing a 2 year old baby isn't a problem, because they aren't aware enough yet to be considered human. Libs also claim to know what's best for everyone else, and they'll get it through by force of law. Including regulating your diet and your smoking habits. eventually, they'll go after all unhealthy habits. Enjoy your brave new world.

But let's go back to Ward Churchill. you say you prefer to hang out with lefty loons. Like A guy who says that the little Eichmanns got what they deserved. Tex specifically referred to anti-american lefties. And while I think he's a loon, at least he sees them as being anti-American. What about all the little Eichmanns in the WTC - were they all categorically anti-American? Or all like Eichmann. or even remotely like Eichmann? Of course not - but Churchill wanted them all dead - according to him they got what they deserved. I'll bet there were a bunch of fallen jews in that crowd. Still feel comfortable hangin' with a guy who was pleased - PLEASED to see all those little Eichmanns, including fallen jews, slaughtered? Feels gooooood, doesn't it, to be in the same camp as Ward Churchill - and to claim that that's somehow better than to be associated with a loon like tex.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If that was a joke..you reinforce the notion that conservs lack a sense of humor. Statements like, "that is silly," hardly qualify as joking.

Calling someone a name..i can live with. Openly advocating death to liberals, kicking them outta the country, etc....can't really live with that.

And, apparently...you and the rest of your elistist, effete conservs are outta touch with your base as per Tex lecture.

We'll be swinging from the trees when Tex has his way, but you and the rest of the intellectual conservs won't last much longer. :lol:

Ha ha. The joke was, oh never mind. I can survive making a bad joke that a lefty doesn't get.

Ward Churchill said the Little Eichmanns got what they deserved; lefties on daily Kos advocate killing. Tex just says it wouldn't bother him if lefties died. Lefties like Peter Singer say that killing a 2 year old baby isn't a problem, because they aren't aware enough yet to be considered human. Libs also claim to know what's best for everyone else, and they'll get it through by force of law. Including regulating your diet and your smoking habits. eventually, they'll go after all unhealthy habits. Enjoy your brave new world.

But let's go back to Ward Churchill. you say you prefer to hang out with lefty loons. Like A guy who says that the little Eichmanns got what they deserved. Tex specifically referred to anti-american lefties. And while I think he's a loon, at least he sees them as being anti-American. What about all the little Eichmanns in the WTC - were they all categorically anti-American? Or all like Eichmann. or even remotely like Eichmann? Of course not - but Churchill wanted them all dead - according to him they got what they deserved. I'll bet there were a bunch of fallen jews in that crowd. Still feel comfortable hangin' with a guy who was pleased - PLEASED to see all those little Eichmanns, including fallen jews, slaughtered? Feels gooooood, doesn't it, to be in the same camp as Ward Churchill - and to claim that that's somehow better than to be associated with a loon like tex.

Rand,

Churchill, etc...those guys are off the reservation...just as you would put racists as off the rez. they are no more part of the dem party than KKK members are to the repub.

I don't put them in loon cat..i meant more the benign...peta, etc. types.

P.S. Tex has advocated more than that...i forget which movie he references, but he would have no problem with a military takeover of this country and forcing out people. I'm sure when he sees this he can tell you the movie.

[mraynrand]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

[mraynrand]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

So you're saying Tex is right about Repubs and is representative - that most Republicans would welcome the death of all the delegates at the DNC. Is that what you believe?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

So you're saying Tex is right about Repubs and is representative - that most Republicans would welcome the death of all the delegates at the DNC. Is that what you believe?

I think that is more a question for yourself. Like i said, you effete, intellectual conservs will be second to go.

I'm just happy that as a liberal i can kill any repub that wanders onto my property.

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, I don't recall the movie reference. Maybe it was somebody else; Maybe I just forgot.

Secondly, there appears to be a factual error here by somebody with the "Little Eichmanns" reference. It sounds like Jews are being called that, when actually, Eichmann was a hyper-murderer of Jews.

I am tempted to say, Tyrone, you are showing more insight here than the pseudo-conservatives who seem so bent on kissing up to the elitist left, if only because of your unhealthy, albeit flattering, pre-occupation with my history of posting. It all fell into place when I realized that you were OTown from JSOnline. I refer to your line about hanging them from the same tree where we hang your sick kind--when "we" take over.

Just the same, while I have virtually no respect you and your sick damned America-hating kind, I do have a fair degree of respect for those in here who generally post degrees of common sense conservatism, but now want to disavow me.

Several months ago, when I first came over to this forum, I posted a long and detailed statement of my positions, and I challenged anybody--particularly the forum leftists--to state how ANY of them could be perceived as extreme or wrong. Of course, not one of the usual leftist posters had the balls to even make an attempt--so typical. Anyway, I address this to Howard, Aynrand, and a few others who are generally on the normal pro-American side of things.

You want to consign me to a position of extremism--basically the conservative equivalent of Ward Churchill--even with the appreciated stipulation that I'm only extreme against perceived anti-Americans? I ask you, WHAT have I ever said or advocated that is all that extreme? How can you--if you are not the effete elitists Tyrone referred to--consider simple normal pro-American positions that I express as extreme? And I ask again, what in the hell is wrong with expressing what probably a large percentage of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans wish--that enemies of America suffer and die? And I further ask you, how can you NOT see the true extremists--those who would bring down the power and prestige of America, those who would CHANGE our economy to socialist, those who disrespect our Judeo-Christian heritage and morality in favor of an agenda of atheism and depravity--as enemies of America?

The left has done a very good job over the past couple of decades of re-defining normalcy and extremism. I would like to think of you guys being able to see through that anti-American crap. It will be interesting to hear your take on this, Howard, Aynrand, etc.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

oh tex, how quickly you forget the massive hardon you have for a 7 Days in May scenario.

Yep, advocating the military topple our gov't is very american. :roll:

[texaspackerbacker]

That was an interesting book/movie, and I, indeed, was rooting for the Kirk Douglas side in it. I just didn't recall posting that. I hereby nominate you for the position of Official Texaspackerbacker Historian. Anybody who keeps track of my "massive hardons" can't be all bad.

I'm torn between being pleased and disgusted with your mania for my posts. It seems you know me better than I know myself.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That was an interesting book/movie, and I, indeed, was rooting for the Kirk Douglas side in it. I just didn't recall posting that. I hereby nominate you for the position of Official Texaspackerbacker Historian. Anybody who keeps track of my "massive hardons" can't be all bad.

I'm torn between being pleased and disgusted with your mania for my posts. It seems you know me better than I know myself.

Proving you are un american. Rooting for the military. :oops:

[HowardRoark]

You want to consign me to a position of extremism--basically the conservative equivalent of Ward Churchill--even with the appreciated stipulation that I'm only extreme against perceived anti-Americans? I ask you, WHAT have I ever said or advocated that is all that extreme? How can you--if you are not the effete elitists Tyrone referred to--consider simple normal pro-American positions that I express as extreme? And I ask again, what in the hell is wrong with expressing what probably a large percentage of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans wish--that enemies of America suffer and die? And I further ask you, how can you NOT see the true extremists--those who would bring down the power and prestige of America, those who would CHANGE our economy to socialist, those who disrespect our Judeo-Christian heritage and morality in favor of an agenda of atheism and depravity--as enemies of America?

The left has done a very good job over the past couple of decades of re-defining normalcy and extremism. I would like to think of you guys being able to see through that anti-American crap. It will be interesting to hear your take on this, Howard, Aynrand, etc.

Tex, while I generally agree with you and often times think you present an argument extremely well, the idea that we should kill our political enemies is complete and utter nonsense.

Our country is founded on freedoms….including freedoms to be an atheist, Socialist, etc. I happen to believe that my convictions are so solid that they will win out on their merits, not at the end of a sword. I think that the “loyal opposition” is a concept that will make the truer conviction rise to the top.

This is where I agree with you in concept, not in your means. I do think that the Left has done an extremely good job over the past 50 years or so of taking control of ALL the levers of communication in this country. They have taken over Universities, Public Education, Television, Movies and the News (aka the God Damn MSM assholes). We have at least one generation out there that hasn’t a clue on the basics of freedom, Capitalism, Democracy, history, etc. They sure can put together a compost bin, or empathize with a transgender person, but the rest….not so much. Well, the way Ty has been demeaning Ziggy tonight, maybe my premise is wrong. But he’s old. The point is that maybe we don’t have a "loyal opposition” anymore….just a bunch of zombies chanting stuff like “yes we can!”

Be honest folks, you want Socialism. Period. Say it. If you don’t get it, start reading more books.

I also think that we should have a very strong separation of Church and State. My faith is more important to me than my country (and my country is VERY important to me), but I do not believe that they should be commingled. But, this also involves secular religions such as Naturalism. Why should certain moralities such as what kind of light bulb I use be shoved down my throat. Or, why should I feel ashamed for owning over 30 cylinders? Why do my children have to learn about a bong inspired theory that is flawed on multiple levels that claims to explain the origins of life?

My religion is strong enough to stand on it’s own without a government behind it. Also, the separation of church and state was NOT meant to scrub religion from our society.

I will digress for a little bit here. I also think that EVERY question that comes up in life boils down to whether or not there is a God. Literally everything….so I also think that if there is a true God, you can’t help but have it involved in government. An apropos example would be “thou shalt not kill.” Now I bring this up to you Tex because you claim and allegiance to Christian ideals, yet you want to kill. God commands for you to not kill. He also tells you to “render onto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” Getting back to my point, if there is not a God who commands to not kill, why shouldn’t we kill? Ty is honest enough to say that all the killing might be part of the culling in the Evolutionary process. Therefore it is not "evil", ergo it must ne O.K. Bullshit I say.

The bottom line Tex is that I think you can actually do a hell of a lot of good just with your ideas. They are RIGHT, yet everything you say is discounted after you rant about killing people. Ideas have consequences, have more faith in your ideas. And, God commands you to not kill. And you claim to believe in God.

[mraynrand]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

So you're saying Tex is right about Repubs and is representative - that most Republicans would welcome the death of all the delegates at the DNC. Is that what you believe?

I think that is more a question for yourself. Like i said, you effete, intellectual conservs will be second to go.

I'm just happy that as a liberal i can kill any repub that wanders onto my property.

It figures you wouldn't answer. But I guess ultimately I don't care, because your position was best summed up long ago when you touted Sullivan saying that we're no better than anyone else. Except for you. The epitome of pure relativism and elitism.

[mraynrand]

First of all, I don't recall the movie reference. Maybe it was somebody else; Maybe I just forgot.

Secondly, there appears to be a factual error here by somebody with the "Little Eichmanns" reference. It sounds like Jews are being called that, when actually, Eichmann was a hyper-murderer of Jews.

I am tempted to say, Tyrone, you are showing more insight here than the pseudo-conservatives who seem so bent on kissing up to the elitist left, if only because of your unhealthy, albeit flattering, pre-occupation with my history of posting. It all fell into place when I realized that you were OTown from JSOnline. I refer to your line about hanging them from the same tree where we hang your sick kind--when "we" take over.

Just the same, while I have virtually no respect you and your sick damned America-hating kind, I do have a fair degree of respect for those in here who generally post degrees of common sense conservatism, but now want to disavow me.

Several months ago, when I first came over to this forum, I posted a long and detailed statement of my positions, and I challenged anybody--particularly the forum leftists--to state how ANY of them could be perceived as extreme or wrong. Of course, not one of the usual leftist posters had the balls to even make an attempt--so typical. Anyway, I address this to Howard, Aynrand, and a few others who are generally on the normal pro-American side of things.

You want to consign me to a position of extremism--basically the conservative equivalent of Ward Churchill--even with the appreciated stipulation that I'm only extreme against perceived anti-Americans? I ask you, WHAT have I ever said or advocated that is all that extreme? How can you--if you are not the effete elitists Tyrone referred to--consider simple normal pro-American positions that I express as extreme? And I ask again, what in the hell is wrong with expressing what probably a large percentage of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans wish--that enemies of America suffer and die? And I further ask you, how can you NOT see the true extremists--those who would bring down the power and prestige of America, those who would CHANGE our economy to socialist, those who disrespect our Judeo-Christian heritage and morality in favor of an agenda of atheism and depravity--as enemies of America?

The left has done a very good job over the past couple of decades of re-defining normalcy and extremism. I would like to think of you guys being able to see through that anti-American crap. It will be interesting to hear your take on this, Howard, Aynrand, etc.

I used the Ward Churchill example to put Ty to task on what he regards as extreme. he gave a competely evasive slimy weasly series of responses, trying to parse what is 'on or off' the reservation. Your position of wishing for or being happy about the deaths of fellow Americans is inconsistent with Conservative values. That's it. Otherwise, you write a lot that is valuable.

[BallHawk]

OH LAWD THE ONE IS HERE!

[BallHawk]

HOLY CRAP! I think that was Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince in the audience.

[Bossman641]

Obama Conversion Stories

"Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama."

-- Dinesh Sharma

"We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra."

-- Chicago] Sun-Times

"A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"

-- Mark Morford

"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history"

-- Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

-- Barack Obama

"Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?"

-- Daily Kos

"He communicates God-like energy..."

-- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

"Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul"

-- Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."

-- Halle Berry

"A quantum leap in American consciousness"

-- Deepak Chopra
"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."

-- Gary Hart

"Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence."

-- Eve Konstantine

"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."

-- Chris Matthews

"[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time."

-- Toni Morrison

"Obama's finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don't even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves."

-- Ezra Klein

"Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind."

-- Gerald Campbell

"We're here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth."

-- Oprah Winfrey

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."

-- Bill Rush

Obama SUCKS

-- Bossman641

[texaspackerbacker]

You want to consign me to a position of extremism--basically the conservative equivalent of Ward Churchill--even with the appreciated stipulation that I'm only extreme against perceived anti-Americans? I ask you, WHAT have I ever said or advocated that is all that extreme? How can you--if you are not the effete elitists Tyrone referred to--consider simple normal pro-American positions that I express as extreme? And I ask again, what in the hell is wrong with expressing what probably a large percentage of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans wish--that enemies of America suffer and die? And I further ask you, how can you NOT see the true extremists--those who would bring down the power and prestige of America, those who would CHANGE our economy to socialist, those who disrespect our Judeo-Christian heritage and morality in favor of an agenda of atheism and depravity--as enemies of America?

The left has done a very good job over the past couple of decades of re-defining normalcy and extremism. I would like to think of you guys being able to see through that anti-American crap. It will be interesting to hear your take on this, Howard, Aynrand, etc.

Tex, while I generally agree with you and often times think you present an argument extremely well, the idea that we should kill our political enemies is complete and utter nonsense.

Our country is founded on freedoms….including freedoms to be an atheist, Socialist, etc. I happen to believe that my convictions are so solid that they will win out on their merits, not at the end of a sword. I think that the “loyal opposition” is a concept that will make the truer conviction rise to the top.

This is where I agree with you in concept, not in your means. I do think that the Left has done an extremely good job over the past 50 years or so of taking control of ALL the levers of communication in this country. They have taken over Universities, Public Education, Television, Movies and the News (aka the God Damn MSM assholes). We have at least one generation out there that hasn’t a clue on the basics of freedom, Capitalism, Democracy, history, etc. They sure can put together a compost bin, or empathize with a transgender person, but the rest….not so much. Well, the way Ty has been demeaning Ziggy tonight, maybe my premise is wrong. But he’s old. The point is that maybe we don’t have a "loyal opposition” anymore….just a bunch of zombies chanting stuff like “yes we can!”

Be honest folks, you want Socialism. Period. Say it. If you don’t get it, start reading more books.

I also think that we should have a very strong separation of Church and State. My faith is more important to me than my country (and my country is VERY important to me), but I do not believe that they should be commingled. But, this also involves secular religions such as Naturalism. Why should certain moralities such as what kind of light bulb I use be shoved down my throat. Or, why should I feel ashamed for owning over 30 cylinders? Why do my children have to learn about a bong inspired theory that is flawed on multiple levels that claims to explain the origins of life?

My religion is strong enough to stand on it’s own without a government behind it. Also, the separation of church and state was NOT meant to scrub religion from our society.

I will digress for a little bit here. I also think that EVERY question that comes up in life boils down to whether or not there is a God. Literally everything….so I also think that if there is a true God, you can’t help but have it involved in government. An apropos example would be “thou shalt not kill.” Now I bring this up to you Tex because you claim and allegiance to Christian ideals, yet you want to kill. God commands for you to not kill. He also tells you to “render onto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” Getting back to my point, if there is not a God who commands to not kill, why shouldn’t we kill? Ty is honest enough to say that all the killing might be part of the culling in the Evolutionary process. Therefore it is not "evil", ergo it must ne O.K. Bullshit I say.

The bottom line Tex is that I think you can actually do a hell of a lot of good just with your ideas. They are RIGHT, yet everything you say is discounted after you rant about killing people. Ideas have consequences, have more faith in your ideas. And, God commands you to not kill. And you claim to believe in God.

Howard, there is a fine line of difference between saying "we should kill our political enemies", and expressing a wish for them to die--either with a tinge of reality or with sarcasm--or expressing an honest happiness when a villain does kick off. I would suggest to you that NOT being honest about such things is a sign of political correctness and giving undue consideration to the anti-American assholes of the left--both on the national scene and in the forum.

If you want to bring up "Thou shalt not kill", you need to also consider the plethora of Biblical instances in the same contest of time and place where "enemies"--violent and otherwise--were ordered by the Author of "Thou shalt not kill" to be killed.

Also, there is a major difference between the "right to be wrong"--atheism and other ways, and the blatant disrespect for the religion --the TRUE religion--which also happens to be our national heritage--if not our National Religion. You seem to do a lot of buying into the leftist propaganda that the Dem/libs have been spewing for a few decades now.

I mean, if calling atheists extremist idiots, and expressing disgust at the widespread disrespect for Christianity, free enterprise, and just about everything else American, then this country has been dragged a long way down by the shitheads of the left. Would you agree with that? Or are you part of the problem?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

So you're saying Tex is right about Repubs and is representative - that most Republicans would welcome the death of all the delegates at the DNC. Is that what you believe?

I think that is more a question for yourself. Like i said, you effete, intellectual conservs will be second to go.

I'm just happy that as a liberal i can kill any repub that wanders onto my property.

It figures you wouldn't answer. But I guess ultimately I don't care, because your position was best summed up long ago when you touted Sullivan saying that we're no better than anyone else. Except for you. The epitome of pure relativism and elitism.

Tex: What do you want me to say? That is he is wrong. Most likely. Or should i wonder if he is closer to his people than i am..and who am i to question his life and experiences.

The republicans i know..the elite, effete aren't that way..but, Tex and his blue collar minions..that isn't my scene. The republicans i know aren't part of the religious right, aren't evangelical, etc. And, i constantly read and hear things from them that makes me shudder.

You mite want to consider the ramfications of your hero's courting of the RR by RR..and what type of political party you have.

Either way..your party is FRACTURED and in big trouble. Just like the Dems after Nam. You are facing some troubling times. Look at your nominees. Not one encompasses the broad coalition of RR. You had the evangelical candidate in Ark gov, the pro biz/anti tax in romney, the less gov Paul..and Mccain..who is really only a tie to the salad days. And, he has had to sell his soul to get the nomination.

Sucks for you conservs..cause you guys aren't gonna control your own party. Thank god...maybe we can return to repubs like Nixon.

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others.

2. Elitism: pot calling the kettle black. Why don't you just admit you are...like Ingraham says.

[HowardRoark]

You seem to do a lot of buying into the leftist propaganda that the Dem/libs have been spewing for a few decades now.

No, just try my best to rise above it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

And just like that...Tex shows his true colors. True Religion...but, i thought we were judeo christian (a joke of a label if ever there was one).

[Kiwon]

Who can watch this crap?

"Now is the time..." to elect a Marxist and for the government to take over your lives.

Even if someone admired Obama, America cannot afford this Marxist. How do you spell "Bankruptcy?" B-A-R-A-C-K O-B-A-M-A

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Who can watch this crap?

"Now is the time..." to elect a Marxist and for the government to take over your lives.

Even if someone admired Obama, America cannot afford this Marxist. How do you spell "Bankruptcy?" B-A-R-A-C-K O-B-A-M-A

Bankruptcy..you mean like Bush and the largest deficit ever (terms of dollars).

You just make it too easy.

[mraynrand]

Who can watch this crap?

"Now is the time..." to elect a Marxist and for the government to take over your lives.

Even if someone admired Obama, America cannot afford this Marxist. How do you spell "Bankruptcy?" B-A-R-A-C-K O-B-A-M-A

Bankruptcy..you mean like Bush and the largest deficit ever (terms of dollars).

You just make it too easy.

But very low in terms of GDP. You make it too easy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

A value system.

[mraynrand]

And just like that...Tex shows his true colors. True Religion...but, i thought we were judeo christian (a joke of a label if ever there was one).

Why do you even care? You don't believe in anything.

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

A value system.

What value system? How do you determine what is valuable?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

I don't think you really know what an epigram is.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

And just like that...Tex shows his true colors. True Religion...but, i thought we were judeo christian (a joke of a label if ever there was one).

Why do you even care? You don't believe in anything.

Care. Of course i care...because he is giving you his true value system. That his religion is right..and which usually winds up justifying killing others.

Nothing: Pretty broad and foolish conclusion.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Who can watch this crap?

"Now is the time..." to elect a Marxist and for the government to take over your lives.

Even if someone admired Obama, America cannot afford this Marxist. How do you spell "Bankruptcy?" B-A-R-A-C-K O-B-A-M-A

Bankruptcy..you mean like Bush and the largest deficit ever (terms of dollars).

You just make it too easy.

But very low in terms of GDP. You make it too easy.

Is that really the point. To call out Obama on bankruptcy when you have a republican who hasn't acted fiscally responsible....laughable.

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

A value system.

What value system? How do you determine what is valuable?

Why don't you tell me.

[BallHawk]

Time for Obie and Chris to salivate........

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

I don't think you really know what an epigram is.

Short witty blurb. I certainly wasn't talking about a poem. Though platitude or 'redundant statement' or 'meaningless tripe' would have been better.

[texaspackerbacker]

If i have to choose my loons..i choose the liberal loons.

This is what you wrote, as though you would choose the loons who are equally far to the left as Tex is to the Right. If Ward Churchill is off the liberal/Democrat reservation (pun intended? HA HA), then Tex is off the conservative/Republican reservation - therefore your comment that Tex is the reason you're not a Republican falls apart, because he then in no way represents what Republican are all about.

Unfortunately for you, you don't understand that the repub party, according to Tex is filled with his types..the blue collar. Tex isn't off the rez...according to him. He is a good normal american. His values represent normal americans.

So, i was referring to the loons within the base of the dem party...abortion rights, socialism, etc.

So you're saying Tex is right about Repubs and is representative - that most Republicans would welcome the death of all the delegates at the DNC. Is that what you believe?

I think that is more a question for yourself. Like i said, you effete, intellectual conservs will be second to go.

I'm just happy that as a liberal i can kill any repub that wanders onto my property.

It figures you wouldn't answer. But I guess ultimately I don't care, because your position was best summed up long ago when you touted Sullivan saying that we're no better than anyone else. Except for you. The epitome of pure relativism and elitism.

Tex: What do you want me to say? That is he is wrong. Most likely. Or should i wonder if he is closer to his people than i am..and who am i to question his life and experiences.

The republicans i know..the elite, effete aren't that way..but, Tex and his blue collar minions..that isn't my scene. The republicans i know aren't part of the religious right, aren't evangelical, etc. And, i constantly read and hear things from them that makes me shudder.

You mite want to consider the ramfications of your hero's courting of the RR by RR..and what type of political party you have.

Either way..your party is FRACTURED and in big trouble. Just like the Dems after Nam. You are facing some troubling times. Look at your nominees. Not one encompasses the broad coalition of RR. You had the evangelical candidate in Ark gov, the pro biz/anti tax in romney, the less gov Paul..and Mccain..who is really only a tie to the salad days. And, he has had to sell his soul to get the nomination.

Sucks for you conservs..cause you guys aren't gonna control your own party. Thank god...maybe we can return to repubs like Nixon.

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others.

2. Elitism: pot calling the kettle black. Why don't you just admit you are...like Ingraham says.

I can see why some people don't like this multiple quoting of posts. It gets hard to see who is saying what, and whom they are saying it primarily to.

Tyrone, I actually appreciate your insight in drawing the distinction between my "blue collar minions", who I see as the large majority of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans, and the Republicans you know, which I guess, would include Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

Regarding your 1. above, I know your kind will never come around to this point of view, and Howard and Ayn are probably too politically correct to admit it, but WE--meaning Americans, meaning western civilization, meaning ethnic and religious Judeo-Christians, REALLY ARE better than humans outside those categories--in valid objective ways. I know all of your sick kind, Tyrone, and some other naive fairly normal people are going "oh that's terrible, how can he say such a thing". Well, that's just the way it is, and anybody denying it is out of touch with reality. If simple observation and every day's headlines don't tell you that, well, they should.

[HowardRoark]

I mean, if calling atheists extremist idiots, and expressing disgust at the widespread disrespect for Christianity, free enterprise, and just about everything else American, then this country has been dragged a long way down by the shitheads of the left. Would you agree with that?

Yes. But once again, I disagree with your methods. You will fight for Christianity and declare it the true religion of our country.....what did Jesus say on the cross; "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Did you not read my paragraph on how the Left has taken over all levers of communication and turned our youth into zombies?

I don't think you read my post. What happens if in 50 years Muslims are the majority in our country and they want to declare Islam to be the “true” religion of our country? I say to you that there is one God and he transcends everything.

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

A value system.

What value system? How do you determine what is valuable?

Why don't you tell me.

Perfect. As Reagan would say: "There you go again." When forced to put your cards on the table, you JUST CAN'T DO IT. Because you don't have a true center, a true honest set of core beliefs that make sense - that aren't immediately self-contradiictory or quickly disproven like Sullivan saying the U.S. is no better than anyone else.

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

I don't think you really know what an epigram is.

Short witty blurb. I certainly wasn't talking about a poem. Though platitude or 'redundant statement' or 'meaningless tripe' would have been better.

I love it when you attack the medium..and not the message. Always the first sign you can't rebutt.

[Zool]

You said butt.

[HowardRoark]

I actually appreciate your insight in drawing the distinction between my "blue collar minions", who I see as the large majority of good normal apolitical America-loving Americans, and the Republicans you know, which I guess, would include Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

Now you're starting to piss me off. Don't start in on me being elitist, class conscious, etc. You don't know anything about me or where I came from or where I am now.

Just because I try to understand concepts deeper than a Hannity smirk don't start in on your Obamaesque rhetoric from the Right (such as it is).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What determines which act is better than another?

A value system.

What value system? How do you determine what is valuable?

Why don't you tell me.

Perfect. As Reagan would say: "There you go again." When forced to put your cards on the table, you JUST CAN'T DO IT. Because you don't have a true center, a true honest set of core beliefs that make sense - that aren't immediately self-contradiictory or quickly disproven like Sullivan saying the U.S. is no better than anyone else.

Wrong. I do have a core set of values. Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

One of them is that you are an idiot.

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

[mraynrand]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

[mraynrand]

Wrong. I do have a core set of values. Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

One of them is that you are an idiot.

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

And they are? And how do you know they are better than mine?

[mraynrand]

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

Are you arguing that there are no universal truths?

[texaspackerbacker]

I mean, if calling atheists extremist idiots, and expressing disgust at the widespread disrespect for Christianity, free enterprise, and just about everything else American, then this country has been dragged a long way down by the shitheads of the left. Would you agree with that?

Yes. But once again, I disagree with your methods. You will fight for Christianity and declare it the true religion of our country.....what did Jesus say on the cross; "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Did you not read my paragraph on how the Left has taken over all levers of communication and turned our yout into zombies?

I don't think you read my post. What happens if in 50 years Muslims are the majority in our country and they want to declare Islam to be the “true” religion of our country? I say to you that there is one God and he transcends everything.

Yes, I did read your post, Howard, and I say again, I did NOT refer to Christianity as the National Religion or anything like that.

I referred to it as "the TRUE religion; I referred to it as our heritage and the clear majority religion of this country; And I referred to the wrongness of disrespecting it--giving a Constitutional pass to all of the false piece of crap religions that come along--which I grudgingly go along with, because, after all, it IS the Constitutional way, while effectively, bending over backwards to deny the same pass to Christians.

The only way the Muslims ever become a majority is if your kind lay down and let Tyrone's sick kind have their way, and my kind never get organized and bold enough to upset the whole applecart--a la Seven Days in May--which will never become necessary if we reign in the assholes of the left in a valid Constitutional way--elections. And I have faith that the American people--primarily MY KIND will continue to do that on election day.

[mraynrand]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

I don't think you really know what an epigram is.

Short witty blurb. I certainly wasn't talking about a poem. Though platitude or 'redundant statement' or 'meaningless tripe' would have been better.

I love it when you attack the medium..and not the message. Always the first sign you can't rebutt.

What else should I say about actions determining whether someone acts better than another? I followed up my aesthetic critique, with a series of questions which you seem reluctant to answer.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just because I try to understand concepts deeper than a Hannity smirk don't start in on your Obamaesque rhetoric from the Right (such as it is).

That seems like a pretty elitist statement Howard. Ready to join the left?

[HowardRoark]

--the TRUE religion--which also happens to be our national heritage--if not our National Religion.

Damn it Tex!!! Are you drinking Shiner Bocks down there, or just starting to talk like Bill Clinton? Of course you meant this to be the National religion.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

Yes...but, not quite as glib (in the best sense of the word).

You have admitted to reading Hitchens. Game over.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

1. We are all humans..so, we aren't better than anyone. Our actions are what determine if we ACT better than others. .

What a lovely epigram.

I don't think you really know what an epigram is.

Short witty blurb. I certainly wasn't talking about a poem. Though platitude or 'redundant statement' or 'meaningless tripe' would have been better.

I love it when you attack the medium..and not the message. Always the first sign you can't rebutt.

What else should I say about actions determining whether someone acts better than another? I followed up my aesthetic critique, with a series of questions which you seem reluctant to answer.

You ignored a lengthy post and made an attack.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wrong. I do have a core set of values. Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

One of them is that you are an idiot.

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

And they are? And how do you know they are better than mine?

I just gave you two..how many more do you need?

Better: Because you are christian.

[texaspackerbacker]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

In a word, YES. If you don't agree, I'd love to know how and why.

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[HowardRoark]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

[mraynrand]

Wrong. I do have a core set of values. Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

One of them is that you are an idiot.

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

And they are? And how do you know they are better than mine?

I just gave you two..how many more do you need?

.

I don't need any. But given what you chose to share, it sounds like you need more - much more.

[mraynrand]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

In a word, YES. If you don't agree, I'd love to know how and why.

I don't need to dispute it. I was just curious. But for more clarity, what do you mean when you say 'class conscious?'

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

Are you arguing that there are no universal truths?

Universal moral truths? Care to give me some?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

[mraynrand]

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

Are you arguing that there are no universal truths?

Universal moral truths? Care to give me some?

What's your answer?

[mraynrand]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What value system?

[HowardRoark]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What are your values based on?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The other is to laugh at those who think they know some sort of universal truth.

Are you arguing that there are no universal truths?

Universal moral truths? Care to give me some?

What's your answer?

I gave you an answer when you chided me earlier. Which ended in your surly, childish retort. And, no reaction to my answer of the republican party.

Now, it is your turn to answer my question

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What value system?

The value system i was given/taught.

[mraynrand]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What value system?

The value system i was given/taught.

And that is? And where did it come from?

[BallHawk]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What are your values based on?

Society, history, culture, etc.

[Zool]

butt

[HowardRoark]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What are your values based on?

Society, history, culture, etc.

OK, I’m going to share a little tonight. My name is Yehya Ayyash. I am a Palestinian and I go over to Isreael to blow up Jews every other weekend. My history, culture and society have instilled these values in me.*

My values are better than yours.


*I am really not a PLO terrorist. I am making a point with Ty. I barely own a sharp knife....in fact I have a real tough time opening virtually any device packaged in that vacuum sealed plastic stuff that you end up cutting up your hands on the sharp edges once you get it ripped open.

[mraynrand]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What are your values based on?

Society, history, culture, etc.

So your better value system came from a better society and better culture?

[texaspackerbacker]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

In a word, YES. If you don't agree, I'd love to know how and why.

I don't need to dispute it. I was just curious. But for more clarity, what do you mean when you say 'class conscious?'

The best and clearest example I can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

[HowardRoark]

The best and clearest example i can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

huh?

[Freak Out]

We have a full gospel circle jerk commencing in three, two, one.....

[mraynrand]

Howard, Aynrand, etc., who indeed, are class conscious, elitist, and worthy of SOME--a small part--of the disdain your kind spew about them.

I'd be interested in your expanding on this. Does this go back to your reference of putting me in the Bill Buckley 'Country Club' Republican class. Is that how I come across? I'd love to know.

In a word, YES. If you don't agree, I'd love to know how and why.

I don't need to dispute it. I was just curious. But for more clarity, what do you mean when you say 'class conscious?'

The best and clearest example I can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

I would have never thought myself guilty of these. I suspect we have different views of what constitute the attitudes of the huge majority of America-loving Americans

[texaspackerbacker]

The best and clearest example i can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

huh?

If that's too complicated for ya, I'll spell it our more clearly. My kind of people, the solid majority of Americans--my "blue collar minions", as Tyrone so eloquently phrased it, I think, have no problem with expressing happiness about Russert kicking off, the overdue demise of Ted Kennedy, and joking about a surgical airstrike of the DNC. That apparently offends your kind. Enough said.

[mraynrand]

We have a full gospel circle jerk commencing in three, two, one.....

We're not interested in what's happening in your house.

[BallHawk]

We have a full gospel circle jerk commencing in three, two, one.....

We're not interested in what's happening in your house.

If Sarah Palin is there we are.

[mraynrand]

The best and clearest example i can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

huh?

If that's too complicated for ya, I'll spell it our more clearly. My kind of people, the solid majority of Americans--my "blue collar minions", as Tyrone so eloquently phrased it, I think, have no problem with expressing happiness about Russert kicking off, the overdue demise of Ted Kennedy, and joking about a surgical airstrike of the DNC. That apparently offends your kind. Enough said.

I hear ya. But there's a huge difference in how you choose to express it and where. When you're in a forum with lots of moderate, you'll turn people off with the death wish stuff. I want to convince people to become more conservative, to come over to my side. That doesn't mean I can't tell it like it is and call guys like Durbin, Murtha, Kerry, etc. worthless politicians.

[texaspackerbacker]

The best and clearest example i can think of is your penchant for political correctness, and your disparagement of what I consider, at least, to be the attitude of the huge majority of America-loving Americans.

Also, there is a prioritizing of and approach to issues, of which yours is pretty drastically different than mine, seemingly in favor of the old liberal stereotype of rich nose-in-the-air Republicans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on 90 or 95% of what you say, though.

huh?

If that's too complicated for ya, I'll spell it our more clearly. My kind of people, the solid majority of Americans--my "blue collar minions", as Tyrone so eloquently phrased it, I think, have no problem with expressing happiness about Russert kicking off, the overdue demise of Ted Kennedy, and joking about a surgical airstrike of the DNC. That apparently offends your kind. Enough said.

I hear ya. But there's a huge difference in how you choose to express it and where. When you're in a forum with lots of moderate, you'll turn people off with the death wish stuff. I want to convince people to become more conservative, to come over to my side. That doesn't mean I can't tell it like it is and call guys like Durbin, Murtha, Kerry, etc. worthless politicians.

"Worthless politicians" would be the absolute LEAST I would call those assholes. How could you think otherwise? Or are you just too timid to say it?

Moderates in the forum? I ain't seen any of them animals lately. Could you provide an example or two or three of who you are talking about? Yeah, I suppose there indeed are some who read but do not post. I ask you, who is doing them more justice, you, who tippytoes around and sugar coats things with political correctness--leaving them to be propagandized by the subtle America-hating assholes of the mainstream media? Or me, who validates what they hear every day of their lives in the workplace, in schools, etc. from good normal Americans who don't even see controversy in telling it like it is?

I submit that you are the equivalent of Buckley and I am the equivalent of Rush or Hannity. Who does more to help the pro-American cause?

[mraynrand]

I submit that you are the equivalent of Buckley and I am the equivalent of /Rush or Hannity. Who does more to help the pro-American cause?

I'll accept that. I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science). But I submit to you that I never hear Hannity or Rush celebrate The death of an American lib like Russert, or joke about an airstrike on the dem convention. That's more in Michael Savage territory. What say you?

[Freak Out]

We have a full gospel circle jerk commencing in three, two, one.....

We're not interested in what's happening in your house.

If Sarah Palin is there we are.

Not tonight.

[HowardRoark]

"Worthless politicians" would be the absolute LEAST I would call those assholes.

That’s easy, but what does it accomplish? I think it is much more important to attack the idea.

I happen to think that there is a whole group of people out there that doesn’t really care about the idea, they just don’t ever want to be identified as Conservative….it would not be “cool” (probably not a cool enough word for these folks I admit).

[HowardRoark]

I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science).

Post a link when you do.

[retailguy]

Man, you just can't read this whole thread and not see what a truly empty person Tyrone is. Arguing with him is like nailing jello to a tree. 20 posts and I've got NO IDEA what his core values are. I do know he can argue like a 5 year old though. :shock:

[Maxie the Taxi]

I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science).

Post a link when you do.

mraynrand, have you read any Ludwig von Mises?

[SkinBasket]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4968_images/0828081959_M_music3.jpg

[Maxie the Taxi]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4968_images/0828081959_M_music3.jpg

Is that Brian Brohm?

[mraynrand]

I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science).

Post a link when you do.

mraynrand, have you read any Ludwig von Mises?

Yep. I even have a LvM T shirt (no shit, I really do. LOL). Ever Read Stanley Jaki? That shit will blow your mind.

[SkinBasket]

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_4968_images/0828081959_M_music3.jpg

Is that Brian Brohm?

Just your average Obama sheep in a state of sexual jubilation at the notion that maybe her mangod might have looked in her general direction during his indoctrination speech.

I guess that's not saying that it isn't Brohm.

[mraynrand]

Did you notice the thing on her finger? Is that a little donkey (ass)?

[texaspackerbacker]

I submit that you are the equivalent of Buckley and I am the equivalent of /Rush or Hannity. Who does more to help the pro-American cause?

I'll accept that. I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science). But I submit to you that I never hear Hannity or Rush celebrate The death of an American lib like Russert, or joke about an airstrike on the dem convention. That's more in Michael Savage territory. What say you?

I'll give you that. Being so big in the public eye make it necessary for them to choose their words more cautiously i.e. a small touch of p.c. I, on the other hand, do not suffer the same restriction. Thus, I choose honesty.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Worthless politicians" would be the absolute LEAST I would call those assholes.

That’s easy, but what does it accomplish? I think it is much more important to attack the idea.

I happen to think that there is a whole group of people out there that doesn’t really care about the idea, they just don’t ever want to be identified as Conservative….it would not be “cool” (probably not a cool enough word for these folks I admit).

It accomplishes the virtue of HONESTY/TRUTH! Do you have something against honesty/truth?

You talk about winning over moderates. Do you think insulting their intelligence with phoniness and leaving leftist propaganda unchallenged is a better way to win them over?

[HowardRoark]

It accomplishes the virtue of HONESTY/TRUTH! Do you have something against honesty/truth?

You talk about winning over moderates. Do you think insulting their intelligence with phoniness and leaving leftist propaganda unchallenged is a better way to win them over?

I think that this can be accomplished without calling them assholes. And I NEVER leave Leftist propaganda unchallenged.

[HowardRoark]

The Lefty media is already getting their story together. No experience, terrible pick.

Who has more experience? Sarah or Obama?

EDIT: Sorry, wrong room......

[Maxie the Taxi]

I hope to write some books that guys like Rush and Hannity will read and deliver to the public in a straightforward manner (particularly on the philosophy of science).

Post a link when you do.

mraynrand, have you read any Ludwig von Mises?

Yep. I even have a LvM T shirt (no shit, I really do. LOL). Ever Read Stanley Jaki? That shit will blow your mind.

Cool. I've got a LvM Institute T-shirt. I attended one summer longtime ago at Stanford.

No, I haven't read Stanley Jaki, I'll look into it.

I mentioned von Mises because you expressed an interest in writing about the Philosophy of science. The book I most value of von Mises' (and I've read them all) is the least known: THE ULTIMATE FOUNDATIONS OF ECONOMIC SCIENCE. It'll blow your mind.

[texaspackerbacker]

It accomplishes the virtue of HONESTY/TRUTH! Do you have something against honesty/truth?

You talk about winning over moderates. Do you think insulting their intelligence with phoniness and leaving leftist propaganda unchallenged is a better way to win them over?

I think that this can be accomplished without calling them assholes. And I NEVER leave Leftist propaganda unchallenged.

If it's the profanity that bothers you, I'll call them "rectums"--or maybe "ani"--is that the plural of anus?

[HowardRoark]

It accomplishes the virtue of HONESTY/TRUTH! Do you have something against honesty/truth?

You talk about winning over moderates. Do you think insulting their intelligence with phoniness and leaving leftist propaganda unchallenged is a better way to win them over?

I think that this can be accomplished without calling them assholes. And I NEVER leave Leftist propaganda unchallenged.

If it's the profanity that bothers you, I'll call them "rectums"--or maybe "ani"--is that the plural of anus?

OK Tex.

This page is a perfect example of the point I am trying to make. If there is a 24 year old kid with a malleable and curious mind out there reading this thread, which posts are more likely to turn him/her into a Conservative? Yours, or Maxie’s and Rand’s?

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm comfortable with that, as I expend more time and words--both quantitatively and qualitatively--probably than anybody else here explaining exactly how and why those assholes--oops, rectums--that you mentioned, Durban, Reid, Kerry--add to that Obama, for sure--really ARE America-hating assholes (oops, rectums).

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

[HowardRoark]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

[texaspackerbacker]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

[HowardRoark]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

[rdanomly]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

Which freedoms are you referring to that they are giving away?

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

[mraynrand]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

I prefer to use the word evil Tex. I think Durbin, Murtha, Reid, and Kerry are evil. I think that they know what they are doing is considered morally wrong in almost all ethical systems, yet they feel they can get away with it. Each of them has violated the "bearing false witness against thy neighbor" commandment in knowing and obvious ways for political and personal gain. Then there are their fellow travelers that are in it for the power and there are those that have been hoodwinked, or deliberately taught falsehoods by corrupt, marxist (sorry 'critical theory') professors in college. Not everyone inflicting their folly is doing so with the intent to harm the country, and it's important to differentiate. But the words of slippery guys like Obama have to be dissected, to show the naive how they are being manipulated, and to show how ideas pushed by Obama are destructive. You're never going to change the Kerrys of the world, but you might pick off some of their fellow travelers and even more important, you might steer some misguided students back on track. But a lot of them have been taught to 'think' emotionally. You know, the Hollywood crap of finding truth in 'trusting your heart' or 'search your feelings' or 'it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe' (those are actual lines from movies). It's a hard slog, but if you hurl insults, you'll tend to get an emotional reaction and then all possibility for rational debate ends - at least with the emoting 'thinkers'

[HowardRoark]

Which freedoms are you referring to that they are giving away?

What kind of trans fats I can eat.

What kind of light bulb I can use.

What kind of health care I can have.

How to spend MY hard earned money.

How to invest my retirement funds.

If I live in Oregon....freedom to pump my own gas.

To ski off piste if I want to.

Come to thnk of it.....the damn trial lawyers are just as culpable.


.....for starters

[mraynrand]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

'The Limits of a Limitless Science ' and 'Miracles and Physics' are collections of essays and though some of it is dated, the basic principles are eternal

'Angles Apes and Men' is a good short book

'Savior of Science' contains the 'complete argument' and is a bit thick, but not too long.

Just a bit of a warning: Jaki is a Benedictine priest, so that does influence everything he writes. Every so often, you might be asking "would he make that argument if he weren't in the faith?" I don't know if that will put you off, but I thought I'd mention it. There is one last book I have at home that is pretty massive, and I can't recall the title. But that can wait.

[texaspackerbacker]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

Not to keep harping on it (on this great day), especially since I have a great deal of respect for both you, Howard, and Aynrand, but I still didn't quite hear the acceptance of the DELIBERATELY aspect. I would concede that many--maybe even a majority of Democrat voters are "sheep" and just don't realize the harm their leaders are trying to perpetrate on America. But those leftist leaders--the "evil" ones mentioned above, the "worthless politicians" described, who indeed are that unmentionable body orifice you don't want me to call them, unequivocally DO know exactly the deleterious consequences of what they want to inflict on us.

Furthermore, while all the items--freedoms lost--that you mentioned are far from trivial, it goes WAY BEYOND THAT all the way to bringing down America from the position of dominant power for good in the world and most comfortable and prosperous nation in the world. These ...... there's than unsayable word again ....... want to CHANGE our way of life. Indeed, if you examine the last few decades, they've done a pretty damned sinister job already of pushing that CHANGE. Enough with that God damned CHANGE. America is the greatest country in the world, and we don't need stinking leftist ......... there's that word again ........ to CHANGE it downward--as they surely would--DELIBERATELY.

[mraynrand]

Not to keep harping on it (on this great day), especially since I have a great deal of respect for both you, Howard, and Aynrand, but I still didn't quite hear the acceptance of the DELIBERATELY aspect. I would concede that many--maybe even a majority of Democrat voters are "sheep" and just don't realize the harm their leaders are trying to perpetrate on America. But those leftist leaders--the "evil" ones mentioned above, the "worthless politicians" described, who indeed are that unmentionable body orifice you don't want me to call them, unequivocally DO know exactly the deleterious consequences of what they want to inflict on us.

That's why I called them evil, because with those I mentioned, I am certain they absolutely knew what they were doing was morally wrong and harmful to the country.

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

'The Limits of a Limitless Science ' and 'Miracles and Physics' are collections of essays and though some of it is dated, the basic principles are eternal

'Angles Apes and Men' is a good short book

'Savior of Science' contains the 'complete argument' and is a bit thick, but not too long.

Just a bit of a warning: Jaki is a Benedictine priest, so that does influence everything he writes. Every so often, you might be asking "would he make that argument if he weren't in the faith?" I don't know if that will put you off, but I thought I'd mention it. There is one last book I have at home that is pretty massive, and I can't recall the title. But that can wait.

Thanks. And I'm not at all put off. Wasn't Aquinas a Benedictine? Plus, I've been intrigued with Ben Stein's film work.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Man, you just can't read this whole thread and not see what a truly empty person Tyrone is. Arguing with him is like nailing jello to a tree. 20 posts and I've got NO IDEA what his core values are. I do know he can argue like a 5 year old though. :shock:

Have you ever considered that i choose not to reveal things. Guess the avatar Tyrone Bigguns wasn't enough of a clue for you.

But, i think you are really just dumb. Tex and others certainly could tell you what i stand for....the death of america.

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
2. Less gov't intrusion...ie, drugs, abortion, gov't spying, etc.
3. Giving people a handup
4. Leading through example
5. Not torturing
6. Not lying to the people like Bush did
7. Energy independence...which Ty was talking about long before you conservs were
8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Republicans and conservs are thinkers.

Dems and their followers are sheep. Definitey not smart enough to see the truth and just need your help to find it.

Hmm, who is elitist. :roll:

[Maxie the Taxi]

Man, you just can't read this whole thread and not see what a truly empty person Tyrone is. Arguing with him is like nailing jello to a tree. 20 posts and I've got NO IDEA what his core values are. I do know he can argue like a 5 year old though. :shock:

Have you ever considered that i choose not to reveal things. Guess the avatar Tyrone Bigguns wasn't enough of a clue for you.

But, i think you are really just dumb. Tex and others certainly could tell you what i stand for....the death of america.

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
2. Less gov't intrusion...ie, drugs, abortion, gov't spying, etc.
3. Giving people a handup
4. Leading through example
5. Not torturing
6. Not lying to the people like Bush did
7. Energy independence...which Ty was talking about long before you conservs were
8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.

We must be brothers, brother Ty :D . I'm for everything you are. (With the possible exception of #8.) (And I'd have to know what exactly you mean by #3.)

[Scott Campbell]

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
5. Not torturing

8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.


How do these first two fit in with the 3rd?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
5. Not torturing

8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.


How do these first two fit in with the 3rd?

Once again proving that conservs don't have a sense of humor.

I would never round them up and put them in texas with tex. Ty is against cruel and unusual punishment.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How do these first two fit in with the 3rd?

Once again proving that conservs don't have a sense of humor.

This is funny considering Scott's post had some humor thrown in there.

[Scott Campbell]

And I'm still not sure who I'm voting for.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How do these first two fit in with the 3rd?

Once again proving that conservs don't have a sense of humor.

This is funny considering Scott's post had some humor thrown in there.[/quote]

Not much.

[BallHawk]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Are you kidding me? I'd sleep like a baby! (And believe me, at my age, that's saying a lot!)

[If I knew how to do that picture thing, I'd insert a picture here of Sarah in Iraq among the troops firing her M-16.]

[retailguy]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

When the alternative is Barack Obama? Hell yes.

See, if you haven't noticed, Obama is running for PRESIDENT. Presumably McCain won't croak on day #1, so there is time for OJT. Also, she's been governor for 2 years and Lt. Gov for 4 years so at least she's led... something. Obama? None.... But, I'll give it to you - the guy can speak. That's about it, but he CAN give a speech.

[BallHawk]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

[retailguy]

Ballhawk - don't forget. McCain is not a conservative, so I'm less than thrilled with either choice. But, the lesser of two evils is clear.

Also, at least in my world, conservative doesn't necessarily equal republican. I don't consider Bush a conservative either... but you vote your choice in the primary and support the party in the general election. The alternative is to waste your vote on Bob Barr to "send a message". At 42, I'm "tired" of sending messages. Let's just get something done with the best candidate available.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

You're going to tell me Barack Obama was a community organizer in Iraq and Afghanistan? Come on. Obama's foreign policy experience includes a trip overseas...period. Palin, being in Alaska, is closer to Russia everyday than Obama's ever been.

[retailguy]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Can't you multiply that X2 for Obama? Again, McCain shows no sign of croaking on Day 1. Take your point to an extreme, the guys dies, Palin gets to appoint a VP. If she appoints someone with whatever experience she lacks, aren't we in the same position as we would be if Obama wins now? (Looking at just this narrow view. Personally I think American business is screwed but that wasn't your point.)

[Scott Campbell]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?


I'm pretty sure I could get behind her.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?


I'm pretty sure I could get behind her.

LOL

[Scott Campbell]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?



That question is depressing. Here's a better question:

If she pulled a Spitzer and started getting freaky with call girls, would B. be more likely to vote for her?

[MJZiggy]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?



That question is depressing. Here's a better question:

If she pulled a Spitzer and started getting freaky with call girls, would B. be more likely to vote for her?

Well DUH!!! :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Itsa legitimate question, but the same uncertainty would arise in the unfortunate election of Barack Obama. She at least has done SOMETHING in her professional life as a leader or manager.

[BallHawk]

C'mon, don't try and pass this off as anything resembling an honest VP nomination. This is 100% politics. They've met two times, for God's sake. I hope a lot of women see through this and realize it's just the GOP thinking they can take women for suckers.

[Harlan Huckleby]

so you don't think that a lot of thought and research went into her selection?

She has many positive attributes, her pussy being just one of them. Bill Kristol has been calling for her nomination for three months, she's well respected in political circles.

[texaspackerbacker]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Her demeanor, her family situation, her appearance, all of that kinda reminds me of that TV show about the woman president--Commander-in-Chief or whatever it was--except the character there was a liberal.

To answer your question, Hell yeah!

She is the only one of the four with executive experience. As Governor of Alaska, she has actually had to deal directly with foreign governments (Canada and Russia), which puts her that much ahead of Obama in foreign policy experience. As governor, she is also commander-in-chief of her state's National Guard--which is that much more military background than either Obama or Biden (at least she knows a batallion from a brigade).

It's highly unlikely that a healthy active 72 year old is gonna suddenly kick off. However, if he did, all things considered, I think she would actually be a slight upgrade.

[HowardRoark]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Her demeanor, her family situation, her appearance, all of that kinda reminds me of that TV show about the woman president--Commander-in-Chief or whatever it was--except the character there was a liberal.

To answer your question, Hell yeah!

She is the only one of the four with executive experience. As Governor of Alaska, she has actually had to deal directly with foreign governments (Canada and Russia), which puts her that much ahead of Obama in foreign policy experience. As governor, she is also commander-in-chief of her state's National Guard--which is that much more military background than either Obama or Biden (at least she knows a batallion from a brigade).

It's highly unlikely that a healthy active 72 year old is gonna suddenly kick off. However, if he did, all things considered, I think she would actually be a slight upgrade.

Or. let's restate the original question:

In the event of the unfortunate death of Barack Obama, would you feel more confident with Joe Biden as your Commander-in-Chief?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Her demeanor, her family situation, her appearance, all of that kinda reminds me of that TV show about the woman president--Commander-in-Chief or whatever it was--except the character there was a liberal.

To answer your question, Hell yeah!

She is the only one of the four with executive experience. As Governor of Alaska, she has actually had to deal directly with foreign governments (Canada and Russia), which puts her that much ahead of Obama in foreign policy experience. As governor, she is also commander-in-chief of her state's National Guard--which is that much more military background than either Obama or Biden (at least she knows a batallion from a brigade).

It's highly unlikely that a healthy active 72 year old is gonna suddenly kick off. However, if he did, all things considered, I think she would actually be a slight upgrade.

Or. let's restate the original question:

In the event of the unfortunate death of Barack Obama, would you feel more confident with Joe Biden as your Commander-in-Chief?

Even a better question:

In the event of the unfortunate election of Barack Obama, would you feel confident with him as your Commander-in-Chief?

[HowardRoark]

Question for Conservaties:

In the event of the unfortunate death of John McCain, would you feel confident with Sarah Palin as your Commander-in-Chief?

Her demeanor, her family situation, her appearance, all of that kinda reminds me of that TV show about the woman president--Commander-in-Chief or whatever it was--except the character there was a liberal.

To answer your question, Hell yeah!

She is the only one of the four with executive experience. As Governor of Alaska, she has actually had to deal directly with foreign governments (Canada and Russia), which puts her that much ahead of Obama in foreign policy experience. As governor, she is also commander-in-chief of her state's National Guard--which is that much more military background than either Obama or Biden (at least she knows a batallion from a brigade).

It's highly unlikely that a healthy active 72 year old is gonna suddenly kick off. However, if he did, all things considered, I think she would actually be a slight upgrade.

Or. let's restate the original question:

In the event of the unfortunate death of Barack Obama, would you feel more confident with Joe Biden as your Commander-in-Chief?

Even a better question:

In the event of the unfortunate election of Barack Obama, would you feel confident with him as your Commander-in-Chief?

Barack Obama loves the future because that’s where all his accomplishments are.

That line was plagarized from David Brooks' article.

[sheepshead]

Anything is better than one day of Barry in office. But of the 43 presidents, 8 have died in office. 4 were assassinated. 3 died of stuff no one would die of today in a modern society. and FDR was on his 4th term(stayed a little too long)

Not much of an issue really. But to answer the question , hell yes her values and experience thus far are impressive and if this pick is any indication McCain will have a hell of a cabinet around them.

[SkinBasket]

C'mon, don't try and pass this off as anything resembling an honest VP nomination. This is 100% politics. They've met two times, for God's sake. I hope a lot of women see through this and realize it's just the GOP thinking they can take women for suckers.

Good lord, you really are an angry little sexist cocksucker aren't you? Typical though, I guess of an Obamian to assume all women, like all minorities, are Democrats. Those who vote otherwise have just been "duped" by the GOP somehow. Your dismissal of her accomplishments and character based on her sex is appalling, but unfortunately not unexpected.

It's amazing how the same values you find cause to celebrate in one person cause you such feelings of disdain in another simply based on what they believe in. That's a rather closed minded approach for someone who believes, "Yes, we can!"


You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

[BallHawk]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/08/palin_on_iraq.php

[mraynrand]

The Transcript:


"Time's Jay Newton Small interviewed Alaska Governor Sarah Palin by phone on Aug. 14, less than two weeks before her surprise selection as John McCain's running mate.

TIME: What got you involved in politics.

Palin: I studied journalism in college and always had an interest in the newsroom, which was of course so often focused on politics and government. I studied sports reporting, and that's how I started off in journalism. But even earlier than that, my dad was an elementary school teacher, so often our dinner-table conversations were about current events and about those things that an elementary school teacher teaches students — much about government and much about our nation, and so I had ingrained in me an interest in our government, how things worked. And then from there I just became more interested in more practical steps that I could take... [I] started off running for city council when I was very young in the town [Wasilla] where I had grown up and was elected to two terms on the city council. And then I realized to be really able to make a difference — not just being one of six of a body but to make a difference — I would have to run for the top dog position, and so I ran for mayor and was elected mayor for two terms.

Then from there I was appointed an oil and gas commissioner in the state of Alaska, on the Alaska oil and gas conservation commission, had decided that there were changes, positive changes, that had to be ushered into our state government, decided to run for governor and did so, was successful, and here we are.

How old were you when you ran for city council??

I think was 27 or 28, and then was elected mayor when I was 32.

Did being younger and being a woman gives you a better perspective on politics and government than a more traditional politician?

What's more of a challenge for me over the years being in elected office has been more the age issue rather than a gender issue. I've totally ignored the issues that have potentially been affecting me when it comes to gender because I was raised in a family where, you know, gender wasn't going to be an issue. The girls did what the boys did. Apparently in Alaska that's quite commonplace. You're out there hunting and fishing. My parents were coaches, so I was involved in sports all my life. So I knew that as woman I could do whatever the men were doing. Also that's just part of Alaskan life.

But the age issue I think was more significant in my career than the gender issue. Your resume not being as fat as your opponent's in a race, perhaps [but] being able to capitalize on that... being able to to use that in campaigns — I don't have 30 years of political experience under my belt ... that's a good thing, that's a healthy thing. That means my perspective is fresher, more in touch with the people I will be serving. I would use that as an advantage. I've certainly never been part of a good old boy club. That I would use in a campaign. And that's been good.

The Republican party nationwide has a lot challenges. What ideas do you have to bring the party back, to gain back majorities in Congress, to change the platform to appeal to more people?

The planks in our party's platform — they're sound, they are solid. They are the right agenda for America. I know the Republican platform is right for my state in Alaska because the planks we can stand solidly on are respect for equality and respect for life and an acknowledgment that it is individual Americans and American families who can make better decisions for ourselves than government can ever make for us. So individual freedom and independence is extremely important to me and that's why I'm a Republican, and there are planks in our platform that reflect that.

What, on a real practical level here, the GOP has got to do, though, between now and the election, is to convince Americans that it is our energy policy that is best for our nation and the nation's future, that if we are to become energy independent and if we are to become a more secure nation then we had better start supplying our very, very hungry markets across the nation with American supplies of energy. And up here in Alaska we're sitting on billions of barrels of oil. We're sitting on hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas onshore and offshore. And it seems to be only the Republicans who understand that companies should be competing for the right to tap those resources, and get that energy source flowing into these hungry markets so that we will be less reliant on foreign sources of energy. In a volatile world, relying on foreign regimes that are not friendly to Americans, asking them to ramp up resource production for our benefit, that's nonsensical.

The GOP agenda to ramp up domestic supplies of energy is the only way that we are going to become energy independent, the only way that we are going to become a more secure nation. And I say this, of course, knowing the situation we are in right now — at war, not knowing what the plan is to ever end the war we are engaged in, understanding that Americans are seeking solutions and are seeking resolution in this war effort. So energy supplies and being able to produce and supply domestically is going to be a big part of that. And the GOP agenda is the right agenda in that respect, but the GOP is going to have to prove to Americans in following weeks that we can safely, responsibly and ethically develop these resources. That, of course, has been a problem for the GOP. And a problem up here in Alaska. We have state lawmakers serving time in prison right now... other lawmakers whom the FBI is probing right now... because they have been found, some, to be corrupt in oil and gas issues, having taken bribes. That does not bode well for the GOP. And that's gotta change.

What has been your crowning achievement in office so far?

We have protected our state sovereignty by taking on the big oil industry interests, making sure that there is not going to be any undue influence on the oil industry, that our state administration and our state lawmakers will be making the decisions we will be making... based on sound, solid, unbiased information, not being corrupted by, in the case that I'm speaking of now, [an] oil service company's undue influence that has corrupted some lawmakers. We have set in place ethics laws, overseeing agencies and offices to make sure that never happens again in Alaska. So that's something we're very proud of. And we have allowed measures to be put in place now where we can prove very, very sound and strict oversight of oil and gas development so that we can prove to the rest of the nation that we are ready, willing and we are able to safely develop our resources. So that Alaska can be contributers, we can be producers, so we don't have to be takers from federal government. but can be supplying the rest of the U.S. with American resources finally.

Is there one particular moment or conversation that stands out in your mind where you said, I want to change things, I want to become a politician?

Not so much being a politician. I can't recall a conversation or a moment that I decided that. But knowing that I did want to make a difference. And knowing that my parents had filled in me and my sisters and my brother the desire to work hard and to seek to serve something greater than self. I attribute that passion in me to my parents because that's the way they have lived.... I think it was just in my upbringing, observing the way that my parents live ... as a schoolteacher — and the school secretary was my mom — and as coaches, volunteers in the community, and that to this day they're still helping out with students and kids and activities in Alaska. Just this general observation that's fulfilling, the actions that they take do make a difference, they make people's lives better. I did want to be a part of that. It was a given for my siblings and for me and, naturally, an expectation that we were to do that. So, now my siblings have ended up — one's an elementary school teacher, one's a pediatric hygienist (she's also worked in the dental industry)... we all have our little niches. I'm the only one who got into politics. My parents were never partisan. In fact I won't be surprised if most folks in my family are registered as either nonpartisan or independents. But just that sense of contributing to community has been very, very strong and a solid part of my foundation based on my upbringing.

You have five children. You must be incredibly busy.

I'm just very blessed. My husband loves being a dad as much as I love being a mom. I've got great help there. But also my immediate family and my extended family, for the most part, are Alaskans, they're here, helping with a network, a support system. I got a couple of aunts outside in Washington state too who are very, very helpful to me. So logistically speaking it's not impossible what I'm doing. I've got great assistance. And having big kids in addition to the little ones... the big kids help out so much with the little one.

I have a 19 year old who's getting ready to be deployed to Iraq. His striker brigade leaves on September 11 of this year. He's 19 and he'll be gone for a year. [And so] on a personal level, when I talk about the plan for the war, let's make sure we have a plan here. And respecting McCain's position on that too, though. And I have a daughter who will be 18 here shortly, another daughter 14, another daughter 7. My daughter just walked into my office. [Sound of child whispering. "I'm not eight till next year."] And I have a baby who is three months old. Trig was just born recently, And he's just an awesome sweet baby. Trig was born with Down Syndrome so this was a whole new ballgame for us, just understanding this very, very special child, who's such an awesome fit in our lives right now. It's just very nice and full life that we have right now...I knew while I was pregnant that he would be born with Down Syndrome. So I was as prepared as one could be.

Having a baby in office must be really challenging. Have your children influenced you in any way?

Absolutely, and because I have both boys and girls I have a greater respect for equality and making sure that gender is not an issue and that everyone is treated equally. Because my husband is Alaska native, my kids have provided me an opportunity to really respect the Alaska native heritage, the culture.

My son being in a striker brigade in the army has really opened my eyes to international events, and how war impacts everyday Americans like us when we have a child who chooses to enlist and to serve [for] the right reasons. Certainly a child born with Down Syndrome has opened my eyes too to challenges that others have. Every American has a challenge. Every American has battles and bumps in the road in their lives. It's just really opened my eyes to a larger world than maybe what I had been used to.

Yeah, just a myriad of examples I can give and how being a mom changes my perspective. And education is very, very important to me because I have got kids today in the system, in the public school system. I want to make sure that we are adequately funded, but that we have high standards and accountability in our schools so that every public dollar is spent wisely. Because I walk into those schools on a regular basis and I want to make sure that our public schools are as good as they can be because my kids are a part of them.

Where do you see yourself going? Staying on in Alaska. Washington?

You know, I don't know. I knew early on that the smartest thing for me to do was to work hard, do the best that I can, make wise decisions based on good information in front of me. And then put my life, get myself on a path that could be dedicated to God and ask Him what I should next. That will be the position I will be in as long as I'm on earth — that is, seeking the right path that God would have laid out for me.

What's your religion?

Christian.

Any particular...?

No. Bible-believing Christian.

What church do you attend?

A non-denominational Bible church. I was baptized Catholic as a newborn and then my family started going to non-denominational churches throughout our life.

Anything else you want to add?

You know, I can't think of anything. Except here in Alaska my family is a microcosm of so much of Alaska. My husband is a commercial fisherman. He also works up in the north slopes in the oil fields. I'm the first female governor in Alaska, so that's brought with it kind of a whole new chapter in Alaska's life. Like my husband — up here they refer to him as the "first dude," not the first gentleman. And Todd... And he is such a dude. He's a four-time winner of the Iron Dog snow machine race, which is the the world's longest and they say toughest snow machine race, 2,000 miles across Alaska. A whole new chapter here when Todd is asked to do things like — and he graciously complies and he has a good time doing it — hosting, as he did a couple of weeks ago down in Juneau, our capital city, the former first ladies tea party. And he does just great at things like that, as well as working in oil fields, with snow machines and in commercial fishing. That's a dynamic here that's of interest to others. Again, sort of a microcosm of that... reflective of an Alaskan lifestyle that so many of us participate in.

I guess its almost natural then to think that women, because they stay in one place, might make better politicians in Alaska than men?

I hadn't thought of that. Lots of unconventional schedules up here. Our kids are very, very, very adaptable because they've grown up with unconventional schedules. With Todd's slope work, he works 700 miles away from home. And the commercial fishing. And I've got a busy schedule. They're very adaptable and well adjusted. Everything seems to work the way it's supposed to work. Thanks to my husband keeping things organized. Even from far away, he does."

[SkinBasket]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/08/palin_on_iraq.php

Well, while we're at it, let's pick a 60 second sound clip from Obama posted on an anti-liberal website and decide that sums up his position on any one issue. That seems fair minded.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Palin: But the age issue I think was more significant in my career than the gender issue. Your resume not being as fat as your opponent's in a race, perhaps [but] being able to capitalize on that... being able to to use that in campaigns — I don't have 30 years of political experience under my belt ... that's a good thing, that's a healthy thing. That means my perspective is fresher, more in touch with the people I will be serving. I would use that as an advantage. I've certainly never been part of a good old boy club. That I would use in a campaign. And that's been good.

Maxie: Great answer. She'll use it debating Biden.


Palin: The planks in our party's platform — they're sound, they are solid. They are the right agenda for America. I know the Republican platform is right for my state in Alaska because the planks we can stand solidly on are respect for equality and respect for life and an acknowledgment that it is individual Americans and American families who can make better decisions for ourselves than government can ever make for us. So individual freedom and independence is extremely important to me and that's why I'm a Republican, and there are planks in our platform that reflect that.

Maxie: Another great answer, this time to a leading question.

Palin: In a volatile world, relying on foreign regimes that are not friendly to Americans, asking them to ramp up resource production for our benefit, that's nonsensical.

Maxie: That's one of her foreign policy positions the Dems won't publicize.

Palin: And I say this, of course, knowing the situation we are in right now — at war, not knowing what the plan is to ever end the war we are engaged in, understanding that Americans are seeking solutions and are seeking resolution in this war effort.

Maxie: She's saying she doesn't know of a plan to end the war. Does anybody who's not on the inside? (Assuming there is a plan.)

Palin: so we don't have to be takers from federal government. but can be supplying the rest of the U.S. with American resources finally.

Maxie: Here. Here.

Palin: Not so much being a politician. I can't recall a conversation or a moment that I decided that. But knowing that I did want to make a difference. And knowing that my parents had filled in me and my sisters and my brother the desire to work hard and to seek to serve something greater than self. I attribute that passion in me to my parents because that's the way they have lived.... I think it was just in my upbringing, observing the way that my parents live ... as a schoolteacher — and the school secretary was my mom — and as coaches, volunteers in the community, and that to this day they're still helping out with students and kids and activities in Alaska. Just this general observation that's fulfilling, the actions that they take do make a difference, they make people's lives better. I did want to be a part of that. It was a given for my siblings and for me and, naturally, an expectation that we were to do that. So, now my siblings have ended up — one's an elementary school teacher, one's a pediatric hygienist (she's also worked in the dental industry)... we all have our little niches. I'm the only one who got into politics. My parents were never partisan. In fact I won't be surprised if most folks in my family are registered as either nonpartisan or independents. But just that sense of contributing to community has been very, very strong and a solid part of my foundation based on my upbringing.

Maxie: This paragraph could have been written by Obama, except for the first sentence. Nothing to criticize here.

Palin: [And so] on a personal level, when I talk about the plan for the war, let's make sure we have a plan here. And respecting McCain's position on that too, though.

Maxie: This could be taken as a criticism of the Bush administration and the way the war's been conducted. I feel the same way. Who doesn't?

Palin: My son being in a striker brigade in the army has really opened my eyes to international events, and how war impacts everyday Americans like us when we have a child who chooses to enlist and to serve [for] the right reasons.

Maxie: It doesn't sound to me that she's disinterested in foreign issues. However, I can see there's a lot in this interview for Eastern Seaboard establishment types to criticize or poke fun at. This hockey mom who's husband is "the first dude" doesn't talk or live like a Harvard graduate or someone who's spent 35 years as an insider politician in Washington frequenting the cocktail party circuit. She's a prototypical westerner who lives in our nation's last frontier. Like many of us midwesterners she's used to being "overflown," derided and ignored by the liberal elites on both coasts. Go ahead, then, Dems. Laugh at her plain spoken style and the fact that she isn't a clone of that liberal model of wonkish femininity, Madelyn Albright. That's OK with me.

Palin is my kind of people and that suits me just fine.

[MJZiggy]

I thought Bush was the prototypical westerner...good thing she seems nothing at all like him.

[HowardRoark]

I think that "first dude" will help out a whole lot in OH, PA, MI, WI.......

[BallHawk]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin

[BallHawk]

Palin, being in Alaska, is closer to Russia everyday than Obama's ever been.

To quote Jon Stewart

"When you think about it, Alaska is also near the North Pole, so she must also be friends with Santa."

:roll: :roll:

[mraynrand]

Palin, being in Alaska, is closer to Russia everyday than Obama's ever been.

To quote Jon Stewart

"When you think about it, Alaska is also near the North Pole, so she must also be friends with Santa."

:roll: :roll:

That's a funny joke, but if you're using it to make an argument, it's useless.

[mraynrand]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin

That's called doing your job. Good for her.

[SkinBasket]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin

That's called doing your job. Good for her.

That was my 1st thought.

[texaspackerbacker]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely. Furthermore, any president is going to have the cabinet and advisors around him so that there are no significant differences if the VP has to take over.

The real question, as always, is how much good/harm will the presidential nominee do if he gets in.

Obviously, if you like CHANGE in the form of America falling from its position of most powerful and prosperous nation in the world, if you like CHANGE in the form of socialism instead of free enterprise capitalism, if you like CHANGE in the form of higher taxes and the severely dampened economy those higher taxes bring, if you like CHANGE in the form of emphasis of various forms of depravity--abortion, homosexuality, etc., if you like CHANGE in the form of courts inflicting horrendous leftist social and moral changes in our lifestyle without the democratic process being allowed to stand in the way, then Obama is your man.

If you love America pretty much the way it is--maybe a few minor adjustments in the form of spending cuts, earmarks, etc., but our strength and wealth and lifestyle maintained, then McCain is your man.

It's as simple as that.

[BallHawk]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin

That's called doing your job. Good for her.

I'm not criticizing her for not being an expert on Iraq, just don't pass her off as this great, qualified candidate, that she has experience with Russia and Canada and is versed in foreign affairs. She knows jack squat. How anybody can say she is more knowledgeable about foreign affairs than Obama is a joke. She's never been outside of the country on a trip for political means. Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

[mraynrand]

Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

That's your claim. Let's see you back it up. What are you drawing on for this assessment?

[BallHawk]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely.

You're saying that a man that would be 72 when he takes office is "extremely unlikely" to die? Is it unlikely? Yes. But at his age, don't tell me that it's out of the question.

[texaspackerbacker]

You don't find Palin's lack of understanding, or even interest, in foreign policy disturbing?

Maybe you could point to what exactly she doesn't "understand" or find "interesting" about foreign policy? Criticizing her experience in the area is one thing, although she has the same experience as Obama, so I'm not sure why you would want to. Trying to extend that to "understanding" or "interest" is another.

"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." --Palin

That's called doing your job. Good for her.

I'm not criticizing her for not being an expert on Iraq, just don't pass her off as this great, qualified candidate, that she has experience with Russia and Canada and is versed in foreign affairs. She knows jack squat. How anybody can say she is more knowledgeable about foreign affairs than Obama is a joke. She's never been outside of the country on a trip for political means. Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

And Obama DOES know jack squat?

The fact is, NEITHER of them has one ounce of foreign policy experience. One, however, would be THE primary foreign policy decisionmaker, the other would not.

And based on background attitude and statements, one would be starting from a position of disdain, if not outright hate for his country and its position as the most powerful and prosperous in the world, and the other would be starting from a clear love and respect for her country and desire to keep America on top.

[BallHawk]

But can we agree that Biden has more foreign policy experience than all 3 of them combined?

[mraynrand]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely.

You're saying that a man that would be 72 when he takes office is "extremely unlikely" to die? Is it unlikely? Yes. But at his age, don't tell me that it's out of the question.

Of course, it's not out of the question, but he could be past his second term and be in better shape than 'ole Strom Thurman who lived out of his hospital room, or Robert Byrd, who is still around and hasn't had a coherent thought in well over two decades, and his last coherent memory is probably burning a cross on some lawn in West Virginia. McCain will be fine, and those who discount him on his age alone are ageist bigots.

[mraynrand]

But can we agree that Biden has more foreign policy experience than all 3 of them combined?

Sure, he's had 35 years to be wrong about just about everything. When do you think Iraq will be partitioned?

[BallHawk]

Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

That's your claim. Let's see you back it up. What are you drawing on for this assessment?

He holds a seat on the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Made official visits to Europe, Asia, and Africa.

+1 against Palin.

Obama doesn't really have experience abroad, I accept that. I misspoke by saying he has a "helluva" lot more experience than Palin. He has more experience than Palin.

[texaspackerbacker]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely.

You're saying that a man that would be 72 when he takes office is "extremely unlikely" to die? Is it unlikely? Yes. But at his age, don't tell me that it's out of the question.

Would you care to put a percentage on it--McCain dying in say 1 year, 2 years, 4 years of taking office? Rule out assassination on the grounds that it is supposedly equally likely for either.

My guess would be about 1% the first year, 2% within two years, and maybe 4 or 5% within a four year term. I honestly think that an actuary would consider those percentages rather high considering current good health and the kind of attention and care any president gets.

[BallHawk]

But can we agree that Biden has more foreign policy experience than all 3 of them combined?

Sure, he's had 35 years to be wrong about just about everything. When do you think Iraq will be partitioned?

Never.

[mraynrand]

Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

That's your claim. Let's see you back it up. What are you drawing on for this assessment?

He holds a seat on the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Made official visits to Europe, Asia, and Africa.

+1 against Palin.

What was that? three minutes of research? I love this debate - comparing Obama to Palin. It becomes quickly clear that they're both in about the same ballpark experience-wise, that Dems are critical of Plain for her inexperience, and that basically argues against their candidate for presidency.

What did Obama do on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations? How often did he even show up? Did he ever convene a hearing? Check out the other thread on what Obama did on his trip to Africa. Taunting a village with the promise of help and then forgetting about them doesn't seem to demonstrate positive experience.

[mraynrand]

But can we agree that Biden has more foreign policy experience than all 3 of them combined?

Sure, he's had 35 years to be wrong about just about everything. When do you think Iraq will be partitioned?

Never.

Strike one.

[Maxie the Taxi]

BallHawk wrote:

I'm not criticizing her for not being an expert on Iraq, just don't pass her off as this great, qualified candidate, that she has experience with Russia and Canada and is versed in foreign affairs. She knows jack squat. How anybody can say she is more knowledgeable about foreign affairs than Obama is a joke. She's never been outside of the country on a trip for political means. Obama isn't the foreign relations guru that Biden is, but he's a helluva lot better than Palin.

The sentence in bold type is just plain wrong. I've seen pictures of her in Kuwait visiting members of the Alaska National Guard. I assume that was while she was Governor. What's Obama done, tour Iraq for a few days?

Look, neither has negotiated a treaty or acted as a foreign emissary, including Biden.

And speaking of Biden, so he's sat on the Foreign Affairs Committee and gained some experience there. So what? Didn't he vote FOR the Iraq war? Wasn't he against the Surge? Didn't he want to put troops on the ground in Darfur?

Biden doesn't sound like some foreign policy genius even with all his bureaucratic experience. BUT, even if he is such a genius, McCain (or Palin, if McCain crokes) could always invite Biden to the White House for a brainstorming session. I'm sure Biden, being a good American, would be happy to oblige.

Who knows, maybe Palen would appoint him Secy. of Defense or Secy. of State, if she's suitably impressed.

However, I hope she doesn't. Because Biden, despite his experience, strikes me as a diehard partisan who's wrong too many times on too many issues.

[HowardRoark]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely.

You're saying that a man that would be 72 when he takes office is "extremely unlikely" to die? Is it unlikely? Yes. But at his age, don't tell me that it's out of the question.

Would you care to put a percentage on it--McCain dying in say 1 year, 2 years, 4 years of taking office? Rule out assassination on the grounds that it is supposedly equally likely for either.

My guess would be about 1% the first year, 2% within two years, and maybe 4 or 5% within a four year term. I honestly think that an actuary would consider those percentages rather high considering current good health and the kind of attention and care any president gets.

life expectancy for a 72 yr. old is 12 more yrs.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4c6.html

you older guys........don't open this link, just go open a beer.

[HowardRoark]

Lucky for me, mine are better than yours.

What does better mean? Is the word better a universal truth?

Nope. Value system.

What are your values based on?

Society, history, culture, etc.

OK, I’m going to share a little tonight. My name is Yehya Ayyash. I am a Palestinian and I go over to Isreael to blow up Jews every other weekend. My history, culture and society have instilled these values in me.*

My values are better than yours.


*I am really not a PLO terrorist. I am making a point with Ty. I barely own a sharp knife....in fact I have a real tough time opening virtually any device packaged in that vacuum sealed plastic stuff that you end up cutting up your hands on the sharp edges once you get it ripped open.

check

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Like Sheepshead said, any conjecture about a president dying is extremely unlikely.

You're saying that a man that would be 72 when he takes office is "extremely unlikely" to die? Is it unlikely? Yes. But at his age, don't tell me that it's out of the question.

Would you care to put a percentage on it--McCain dying in say 1 year, 2 years, 4 years of taking office? Rule out assassination on the grounds that it is supposedly equally likely for either.

My guess would be about 1% the first year, 2% within two years, and maybe 4 or 5% within a four year term. I honestly think that an actuary would consider those percentages rather high considering current good health and the kind of attention and care any president gets.

life expectancy for a 72 yr. old is 12 more yrs.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4c6.html

you older guys........don't open this link, just go open a beer.

A bit disegenous. Mccain's body has suffered. He is not a high energy guy right now. All the journalists have noted the relaxed pace of his campaign.

He has had repeated bouts of skin cancer. Polyps in his colon. Kidney stones.

I'm not worried about the those particularly, but his last bout with cancer was pretty serious..and anytime anyone that old goes under for surgery...that is risky.