Whats Wrong with KGB?

[SMACKTALKIE]

http://www.rotoworld.com

Packers DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila may be in danger of missing the Packers regular season opener.

KGB is experiencing soreness in the knee that was surgically repaired back in May. After missing the first three preseason games, he returned to practice only to suffer a setback Sunday.


What was repaired in KGB's knee? What is the problem?

[Badgerinmaine]

What was repaired in KGB's knee? What is the problem?

NFL.com says it was a torn meniscus that he aggravated gradually while exercising to strengthen an injured ankle:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d808e790f&template=with-video&confirm=true

[SMACKTALKIE]

Hmmm... That's one of the procedures I've had too (I've had alot of knee surgeries) and I can tell you It's a minor procedure. However if it is re-injured it can be extremely painful.

I'm guessing that he is or was dealing with a flap of cartilage moving from it's correct position to between the knee joint. Either that or swelling form a tear on the cut, that was intended to correct the tear.

Ouch.

[KYPack]

9 years of being a rush DE in the NFL ain't helped that knee any, either.

[The Leaper]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I read that 4 of KGB's 9.5 sacks came against Bryant McKinnie of the Vikings.

If he is not ready to go that means Kampmann will be less effective as one always seems to chase the QB towards the other.

Jenkins often gets rotated inside on passing downs so we should see more of Montgomery and possibly Hunter.

With this new on KGB I think Hunter survives the cuts and not only helps at DE but performs well on special teams.

With this, the 53 man roster has more defensive players due to injuries and that means Coston gets cut. Sitton should be back for week 3. Hunter provides more value than Coston.

When I look at those to be cut I see:

1) Tai Smith WR
2) Johnny Quinn WR
3) Ryan Keenan OG
4) Orrin Thompson OT**
5) Breno Giacomini OT **
6) Brennan Carvalho C
7) Joey Haynos TE**
8) Jake Allen WR
9) Noah Herron RB
10) Greg Lumpkin RB**
11) Corey White FB**
12) Conrad Bolston DT
13) Rodney Allen DT
14) Alfred Malone DT
15) Spencer Havner LB
16) Danny Lansanah LB
17) Joe Porter CB **
18) Scorpio Babers CB
19) Tyrone Culver S
20) Jarret Bush S
21) Brett Swain WR **

Leaving 4 left for the final cut unless there is another IR or trade.

Those 4 are Hunter, Hodge, White, and Coston. Hunter and White add much on special teams, Hodge some, and Coston is more easily replaced.

Kabeer has 2 weeks to wisely rehab the knee and not overdo it. He may not be 100%. If he can take 10 snaps against the Vikings on passing downs it will help a lot.

[pbmax]

The JS article seems to indicate that KGB, unfamiliar with surgery previously, needs to push harder through the rehab and playing to get past the pain. Pickett and Hairston both make this point, kindly, without throwing KGB under the bus.

It would seem the team believes he isn't injured now, but needs him to push himself harder. If McCarthy buys that explanation, he might have to deliver a swift kick to get his end back. I hope it goes OK for him. $7 mil value or not, he's the best threat we have on third down.

That same article says it wasn't the meniscus itself that was operated on, but the meniscus cartilage..

[Harlan Huckleby]

Packers DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila may be in danger of missing the Packers regular season opener.

Correction:

Packers DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila may be in danger of missing the Packers regular season.

[mraynrand]

That same article says it wasn't the meniscus itself that was operated on, but the meniscus cartilage..

When they say meniscus or meniscal tear, they are almost always referring to the meniscal cartilage. The thing is like a little gasket or cushion between the major bones of the leg, and as was mentioned above, it can fray and get caught. If it's been operated on, all they really do is clean up the frayed stuff, but then you have less cushion. eventually, you will have bone on bone. Most likely KGB is suffering from swelling, especially since the article hints that he could play through it. It can hurt like a bugger, but you can play on it. Linemen do it all the time. If you read an article about a 'sprained knee' and they don' t mention ACL, PCL, lateral collateral, they are almost always talking meniscus. The real question is the quality/amount of the remaining cartilage in the knee. If the knee is degenerative, KGB could be done. That's why I made my prediction that the surprise cut this preseason would be KGB. He should have been healed a long time ago from a simple tear.

[LL2]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.

This is interesting (not pointing you out), but last summer many thought KGB was expendable and wanted to dump his salary.

I always liked KGB, but felt he was overworked as a full time DE. He's a specialist and needs his snaps limited to maintain effectiveness.

[pbmax]

With only one surgery under his belt on that knee, my first guess would be that he isn't to bone on bone yet. We obviously can't know for certain.

However, if the cartilage was still damaged or in need of trimming, you would think they would be scheduling something now, with two weeks to go. If the cartilage has been removed, then I think the conversation would be about microfracture surgery, not rehab.

... The real question is the quality/amount of the remaining cartilage in the knee. If the knee is degenerative, KGB could be done. That's why I made my prediction that the surprise cut this preseason would be KGB. He should have been healed a long time ago from a simple tear.

[mraynrand]

With only one surgery under his belt on that knee, my first guess would be that he isn't to bone on bone yet. We obviously can't know for certain.

However, if the cartilage was still damaged or in need of trimming, you would think they would be scheduling something now, with two weeks to go. If the cartilage has been removed, then I think the conversation would be about microfracture surgery, not rehab.

... The real question is the quality/amount of the remaining cartilage in the knee. If the knee is degenerative, KGB could be done. That's why I made my prediction that the surprise cut this preseason would be KGB. He should have been healed a long time ago from a simple tear.

You don't do microfracture surgery on meniscal tears. That procedure is a last ditch attempt to get bone to heal. The likely reason there has been no further surgery is because there is nothing to operate on - probably there is no cartilage to clean out. And that may be the problem. You don't need to have more than one injury to get a degenerative joint. The lack of healing, and that they aren't talking about another surgery is what worries me - it really sounds like there is nothing left he can do but play with some pain - how much pain that is, and whether he can deal with it will probably determine whether he is on the squad come opening day.

[cpk1994]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.It's not really that much better with him either.

[boiga]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.It's not really that much better with him either. I don't know what you are talking about. Our pass rush was near the best in the league until KGB went down. We just have to hope he comes back healthy, because KGB at half speed isn't worth much.

[The Gunshooter]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.

This is interesting (not pointing you out), but last summer many thought KGB was expendable and wanted to dump his salary.

I always liked KGB, but felt he was overworked as a full time DE. He's a specialist and needs his snaps limited to maintain effectiveness.

I stated repeatedly on JS forum that I wanted to replace KGB, Favre and Bubba and go after a pass rusher, DB, and team Michael Turner with Grant. I got 2 out of 6 and I know I wanted what most will say was impossible. They certainly have the cap space and then some.

[SnakeLH2006]

Direct reply to topic:

He's old and has a bum knee.

[mraynrand]

Our pass rush without KGB is mediocre at best.

This is interesting (not pointing you out), but last summer many thought KGB was expendable and wanted to dump his salary.

I always liked KGB, but felt he was overworked as a full time DE. He's a specialist and needs his snaps limited to maintain effectiveness.

I stated repeatedly on JS forum that I wanted to replace KGB, Favre and Bubba and go after a pass rusher, DB, and team Michael Turner with Grant. I got 2 out of 6 and I know I wanted what most will say was impossible. They certainly have the cap space and then some.

Makes sense to me (I disagree a bit about Favre) - maybe the price was too high for the guys you wanted. Maybe TT couldn't lure in the extra talent. Will the Packers be in danger of coming in too far below the cap limit? Patler?

[mraynrand]

Direct reply to topic:

He's old and has a bum knee.

BRAVO!

[pbmax]

Well, if wikipedia is to be trusted at all, I give credit to Mr. Rand for pointing out that I had no idea what microfracture was used for. I thought it was for knees where there was no cartilage left and was a last ditch effort.

Apparently, its meant to fill in gaps where cartilage has been removed because it is torn or calcified. But for it to work, your own cartilage must still be functional because the largest area the surgery will cover is 2.5 cm. Good to know.

Also good to know that another procedure has been used to regenerate actual cartilage (the exact same stuff in your joints naturally) in damaged areas, this is called Characterized Chrondocyte Implantation. Microfracture stimulates connective tissue to form to repair the damage, but that tissue is a cousin of actual cartilage, the new procedure stimulates the real stuff to grow.

Now back to your original programming.

[pbmax]

Minimum for 2008 Cap is $98.8 last I read.


Makes sense to me (I disagree a bit about Favre) - maybe the price was too high for the guys you wanted. Maybe TT couldn't lure in the extra talent. Will the Packers be in danger of coming in too far below the cap limit? Patler?

[mraynrand]

Well, if wikipedia is to be trusted at all, I give credit to Mr. Rand for pointing out that I had no idea what microfracture was used for. I thought it was for knees where there was no cartilage left and was a last ditch effort.

Apparently, its meant to fill in gaps where cartilage has been removed because it is torn or calcified. But for it to work, your own cartilage must still be functional because the largest area the surgery will cover is 2.5 cm. Good to know.

Also good to know that another procedure has been used to regenerate actual cartilage (the exact same stuff in your joints naturally) in damaged areas, this is called Characterized Chrondocyte Implantation. Microfracture stimulates connective tissue to form to repair the damage, but that tissue is a cousin of actual cartilage, the new procedure stimulates the real stuff to grow.

Now back to your original programming.

The 'Cousin' of the real stuff is mostly scar tissue. The trick of the research is getting the real stuff to form properly - chondrocytes are like cartilage precursors or 'stem cells' - they can generate cartilage, but the difficulty is getting new cartilage to form with the proper adhesion to the bone and with the proper morphology in the joint. The cool thing is that when scientists actually figure this stuff out, it will be possible to regenerate parts of the knee joint - but don't expect it in time to save KGB :cry:

[Guiness]

Makes sense to me (I disagree a bit about Favre) - maybe the price was too high for the guys you wanted. Maybe TT couldn't lure in the extra talent. Will the Packers be in danger of coming in too far below the cap limit? Patler?

They have until the end of the season to get themselves under the cap. Although the Pack has had a lot of extra space going into the season the last 2 years, both times they have managed to use most or all of it by season's end.

In the past, the Pack have done 2 things to use up the extra cap space:

1) Extend existing players during the season.
Signing players to extensions, and giving them bonuses. Expect Tauscher, of course. Bigby, if he's still starting. Rodgers and Jennings could easily get theirs early, as well.

2) Likely to be earned bonuses that aren't very likely
This is the game the Pack has played well in the past to push money out to next year. If there's significant money left at the mid-point of the season, re-negotiate a veteran player's contract to include bonuses that the NFL considers 'likely to be earned'. For instance, give Morency $1million for starting 8 games. I expect the NFL will look more closely at these things in the next CBA.

[mraynrand]

Makes sense to me (I disagree a bit about Favre) - maybe the price was too high for the guys you wanted. Maybe TT couldn't lure in the extra talent. Will the Packers be in danger of coming in too far below the cap limit? Patler?

They have until the end of the season to get themselves under the cap. Although the Pack has had a lot of extra space going into the season the last 2 years, both times they have managed to use most or all of it by season's end.

In the past, the Pack have done 2 things to use up the extra cap space:

1) Extend existing players during the season.
Signing players to extensions, and giving them bonuses. Expect Tauscher, of course. Bigby, if he's still starting. Rodgers and Jennings could easily get theirs early, as well.

2) Likely to be earned bonuses that aren't very likely
This is the game the Pack has played well in the past to push money out to next year. If there's significant money left at the mid-point of the season, re-negotiate a veteran player's contract to include bonuses that the NFL considers 'likely to be earned'. For instance, give Morency $1million for starting 8 games. I expect the NFL will look more closely at these things in the next CBA.

Thanks for the info. Good post.

[bobblehead]

whereas I just finished trashing RB's as a dime a dozen, speed rushers are very rare and valuable. No KGB is bad...very bad. Our only hope would be that Hunter is ready for that breakthrough type year KGB had back when. It would be a saving grace if he did breakthrough.

[sepporepi]

For instance, give Morency $1million for starting 8 games.

I think since he never has done it before, it would unlikely to earn for him.

Special Teams bonuses are likely to be earned in general. So give Tauscher a new contract and state that he gets another 5MIL if he plays on 20 kickoffs or has 10 Special team tackles and so on...