Best and Worst of Camp

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080826/PKR01/80826175/1058/PKR01

ARod, the old corners, Brandon Jackson, and the 2008 draft class made the Thumbs Up list


2008 draft class: Top pick Jordy Nelson looks like he can contribute right away. Guard Josh Sitton (a fourth-round pick) would have been an opening-day starter if not for a knee injury that will keep him out for a few weeks. Cornerback Pat Lee, tight end Jermichael Finley and defensive end Jeremy Thompson all look like good long-term prospects.

Rookie QBs, OL, DL, and camp atmosphere made the Thumbs Down list. Ryan Grant also, but that seems a little harsh.

[mraynrand]

"Camp atmosphere: After the Favre trade, fan presence at practice was minimal. Crowds were the smallest in the last two decades."

Gee Del Griffith, do you think so? Do you think perhaps Brett Favre was a draw in Green Bay? Still, with the camp fan numbers down a bit, I bet it was much more enjoyable and accessible for the fans who come to actually watch the football moreso than gawk at the players.

[CaliforniaCheez]

...and the size of crowds attending Jets camp shot way up.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=787824


THUMBS UP
If practice is any indication, quarterback Aaron Rodgers has a future in the West Coast offense. Perhaps his best asset during training camp was his high completion percentage, a staple of the system. According to unofficial statistics kept by the Journal Sentinel, Rodgers completed 228 of 327 passes (69.7%) in 11-on-11 drills held on Clarke Hinkle Field (not including screen/gadget play periods). His worst day came Aug. 1, when he completed 18 of 34 passes with an interception in two practices. But he had many more good ones, such as a 34-for-43 day on Aug. 6 and a 20-for-24 day on Aug. 9. These drills are set up for high completion percentages, but the quarterbacks still have to compete against the defense, sometimes the No. 1 unit. Rodgers threw a total of eight interceptions, including three in one practice, which isn’t great. Tom Brady threw eight in 578 attempts last season. But Rodgers went the last nine practices without one.

THUMBS DOWN
The rookie quarterbacks had far less success, especially second-round pick Brian Brohm. He completed 99 of 167 passes (59.3%) and threw six interceptions. Unlike Rodgers, Brohm threw more interceptions as camp wore on. He had four in his last nine practices. Seventh-round pick Matt Flynn had nearly 60 fewer attempts in practice, but completed 65 of 109 passes (59.6%). Often he was throwing check-downs and short crossing routes, but in more recent practices he has been throwing downfield, usually with more authority than Brohm. Flynn was intercepted just once all camp and it came when receiver Jake Allen dropped a ball that bounced into the arms of safety Aaron Rouse. Flynn had trouble getting the ball over the line of scrimmage early in camp, suffering five tips in the first eight practices, but he didn’t have any in the final 14.

[oregonpackfan]

The Packers rookie quarterbacks are just that--rookies!

This camp should provide more substance for the argument that the Packers need a veteran QB to back up Rodgers. If Rodgers goes down, the Packers are in for a loooooong season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Packers rookie quarterbacks are just that--rookies!

This camp should provide more substance for the argument that the Packers need a veteran QB to back up Rodgers. If Rodgers goes down, the Packers are in for a loooooong season.

I'd agree, but right now we could still sign Daunte Culpepper or Quinn Gray (two guys we've shown mild interest in) if ARod goes down.
:D

[Partial]

I would like them to explore that in the event of injury but until then go with the two youngins. Obviously Brohm isn't getting cut, but the later round pick seems like a steal to this point (that or Brohm just looks that bad).

Question:

If they're struggling and A-Rod goes down for 2-3 weeks, and Culpeppers/Grey comes in and the team looks much better, do we have a QB controversy? If so, then you play the youngen and probably lose some games. But you can't break A-Rods confidence in the first year by going with someone else over him.

[Zool]

I would like them to explore that in the event of injury but until then go with the two youngins. Obviously Brohm isn't getting cut, but the later round pick seems like a steal to this point (that or Brohm just looks that bad).

I want to see Flynn against something other than the other teams 4th and 5th string D. Maybe he'll get some time tomorrow in the first half.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think it is 100% certain that TT intends to add a vet QB, otherwise Flynn would have seen more playing time. Well, if Flynn gets a shot tomorrow, maybe the team is seriously considering going into the season without adding a vet.

[Deputy Nutz]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=787824


THUMBS UP
If practice is any indication, quarterback Aaron Rodgers has a future in the West Coast offense. Perhaps his best asset during training camp was his high completion percentage, a staple of the system. According to unofficial statistics kept by the Journal Sentinel, Rodgers completed 228 of 327 passes (69.7%) in 11-on-11 drills held on Clarke Hinkle Field (not including screen/gadget play periods). His worst day came Aug. 1, when he completed 18 of 34 passes with an interception in two practices. But he had many more good ones, such as a 34-for-43 day on Aug. 6 and a 20-for-24 day on Aug. 9. These drills are set up for high completion percentages, but the quarterbacks still have to compete against the defense, sometimes the No. 1 unit. Rodgers went the last nine practices without an interception.

THUMBS DOWN
The rookie quarterbacks had far less success, especially second-round pick Brian Brohm. He completed 99 of 167 passes (59.3%) and threw six interceptions. Unlike Rodgers, Brohm threw more interceptions as camp wore on. He had four in his last nine practices. Seventh-round pick Matt Flynn had nearly 60 fewer attempts in practice, but completed 65 of 109 passes (59.6%). Often he was throwing check-downs and short crossing routes, but in more recent practices he has been throwing downfield, usually with more authority than Brohm. Flynn was intercepted just once all camp and it came when receiver Jake Allen dropped a ball that bounced into the arms of safety Aaron Rouse. Flynn had trouble getting the ball over the line of scrimmage early in camp, suffering five tips in the first eight practices, but he didn’t have any in the final 14.

All the big write up on preseason college football has been about the Spread offense and it's effect on the game. The NFL doesn't like the spread because it simply doesn't translate all that well, and now players that are quite productive in the spread offense in college and put up huge passing stats seem to then struggle in the NFL and with the pro system whether it is the west coast offense or two backs, two WR and one tight end, or three wide outs, a tight end and a back.

Brohm is an example of this. He put up great numbers in Bobby Petrino's system, but now adapting to a totally different scheme is difficult for him.

[Scott Campbell]

All the big write up on preseason college football has been about the Spread offense and it's effect on the game. The NFL doesn't like the spread because it simply doesn't translate all that well, and now players that are quite productive in the spread offense in college and put up huge passing stats seem to then struggle in the NFL and with the pro system whether it is the west coast offense or two backs, two WR and one tight end, or three wide outs, a tight end and a back.

Brohm is an example of this. He put up great numbers in Bobby Petrino's system, but now adapting to a totally different scheme is difficult for him.


Alex Smith is another example.

[texaspackerbacker]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season. He seems on track for that. Woodson, too, would be expected to still be good. Rodgers also seems to be on track for a good season. He doesn't have to be great, only moderately good, with all the talent around him.

I have not, however, been all that impressed with Brandon Jackson. Oh, he's an OK backup, a good receiver, etc., but the main thing he has shown is how much we need Grant to have a strong running attack. Jackson is ordinary; Grant is extraordinary.

Flynn has done well, and I think could step in if Rodgers went down short term. Brohm hasn't been good, but he has too much potential to give up on. I absolutely do NOT think Thompson should or will bring in some old-timer QB. Even if it isn't by trade and nothing is given up--just a free agent signing, bringing in a vet undoubtedly would mean losing either Brohm or Flynn. I, and probably Ted, think that is too big a price to pay. If Rodgers went down long term and had to go on IR, that might be different, but as of now, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING VET QB.

[Scott Campbell]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season.


Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers?

[Gunakor]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season. He seems on track for that. Woodson, too, would be expected to still be good. Rodgers also seems to be on track for a good season. He doesn't have to be great, only moderately good, with all the talent around him.

I have not, however, been all that impressed with Brandon Jackson. Oh, he's an OK backup, a good receiver, etc., but the main thing he has shown is how much we need Grant to have a strong running attack. Jackson is ordinary; Grant is extraordinary.

Flynn has done well, and I think could step in if Rodgers went down short term. Brohm hasn't been good, but he has too much potential to give up on. I absolutely do NOT think Thompson should or will bring in some old-timer QB. Even if it isn't by trade and nothing is given up--just a free agent signing, bringing in a vet undoubtedly would mean losing either Brohm or Flynn. I, and probably Ted, think that is too big a price to pay. If Rodgers went down long term and had to go on IR, that might be different, but as of now, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING VET QB.


I think Jackson has made great strides twoard becoming a solid runner. His problem remains that he can't pick up a blitz to protect his QB's blind side.

As far as a veteran QB goes, I think they hold off until an injury actually happens to make a move. But I'd like to see Flynn against a real defense rather than a patchwork one made up of scrubs. If Flynn struggles against real NFL players just like Brohm has, then I might not wait for an injury to happen before I look for a veteran. If he doesn't, then there's no way to stash him on the PS to make room for a veteran. And there's no way they can carry 4 QB's given the injuries on the defensive side of the ball. It's made even tougher if they decide to carry 4 HB's, which I think they might end up doing to hold on to Lumpkin. At this point though, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Rodgers can stay healthy and start 16 games so we don't have to worry about who is backing him up. I really don't like any of the other options we have, either on the roster or in FA.

[Gunakor]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season.


Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers?

He struggled in 2 or 3 of the 18 games that he played in last year. The other 15 or 16 games he played he was very good. I don't think he faded too much, if at all.

[Deputy Nutz]

Brandon Jackson is great in the open field, it is his hesitation and decision making ability behind the line of scrimmage with the football. Sure he hasn't had wide open lanes to run through but sometimes in the zone scheme a running backs best asset is finding that one crease, and then motoring through it before it closes along with every other option.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still say, Brandon Jackson just doesn't have that unique "burst" that Grant has. Look at the rushing totals with him starting. Look at his individual totals. I liked him a little bit before his injury early last year; I liked him more when he came back. He would probably be a marginally adequate starter, but he just ain't Grant--a true difference-maker.

I don't know whether Harris really faded or not. I don't recall him having problems with big receivers early in the season--including when we kicked the Giants' butts early in the season. I think he got worn down, but I also think that is something planning and conditioning, whatever, can deal with, and that he is professional enough to snap back.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I still say, Brandon Jackson just doesn't have that unique "burst" that Grant has. Look at the rushing totals with him starting. Look at his individual totals. I liked him a little bit before his injury early last year; I liked him more when he came back. He would probably be a marginally adequate starter, but he just ain't Grant--a true difference-maker.

I just don't know. BJ appears to have burst this season. He's smaller than Grant, and is not extremely elusive. I think the jury is still out on both players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Grant's pretty elusive for a big guy, but that's not what is important in the ZBS really. It's ability to read the right hole, ability to cut, and explosiveness. I think Grant has all three of those qualities. Jackson is missing the first one. I agree with Nutz on Jackson. In another scheme, Jackson probably looks better.

[Freak Out]

Pure and simple we are a contender with Grant...if we had BJ as the starter I would be worried. Grant has PROVEN he has what it takes in this system.

[mraynrand]

Grant's pretty elusive for a big guy, but that's not what is important in the ZBS really. It's ability to read the right hole, ability to cut, and explosiveness. I think Grant has all three of those qualities. Jackson is missing the first one. I agree with Nutz on Jackson. In another scheme, Jackson probably looks better.


As the primary back, right now he looks a little out of place - but remember his skill set coming in. I think he could be a great change of pace guy on third downs and in various formations to receive out of the backfield. Still, at this point, it's mostly wishful thinking, because we haven't seen much.

[falco]

also, tramon williams

[Noodle]

Grant has had the good judgment, twice now, to stay the hell out of the backfield during the early season.

Look, do you really think BJack got all that much better toward the end of last year, or don't you think he might have looked as good as Grant because the dat' burn OL started doing it's friggin' job?

I agree that BJack looks hesitant, but they may be that there are simply no creases at all to run through. The problem with TV is you see the line from the side, you don't often get a view from the back's perspective. My guess is that, from where BJack's looking, there ain't much daylight there.

It'll get better, just like it did last year, but will anyone really argue that the OL has done BJack any favors this preseason?

[texaspackerbacker]

Amen to that (freakout's post, I mean).

Grant is good enough to force an extra defender in the box and open things up for the passing game--and if they don't adjust to him, he runs wild.

[Scott Campbell]

I agree that BJack looks hesitant, but they may be that there are simply no creases at all to run through. The problem with TV is you see the line from the side, you don't often get a view from the back's perspective. My guess is that, from where BJack's looking, there ain't much daylight there.



I saw some great footage from directly behind the line of Grant squeezing through some tiny creases last year. He hit them really quick too. I think the guy is the real deal, and will be worth more than what Ted paid him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Would be great to get Wells and Pickett back before the start of the season.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=787823


Wells, Pickett on way back: Both the Packers’ offensive and defensive lines should get their anchors back early next week.

Center Scott Wells and defensive tackle Ryan Pickett said they would play in the season-opening game against the Minnesota Vikings on Sept. 8. Both also expect to take part in practice when it resumes on Monday.

[bobblehead]

I think it is 100% certain that TT intends to add a vet QB, otherwise Flynn would have seen more playing time. Well, if Flynn gets a shot tomorrow, maybe the team is seriously considering going into the season without adding a vet.

I disagree. I don't think anyone worth a damn is available. If Arod goes down and we are in the hunt you will see the simplist gameplan....well, about what the bears do. We will try to win with defense, special teams and a running game. We will try to sneak into the playoffs and have arod healthy for them.

Now I'm not saying I advocate not having a vet in camp learning the system, competing to be the #2, but that is where we are now.

[boiga]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.


also, tramon williams Agreed. He has probably had the best offseason of anyone on the team. He solidified a nearly starting position and has dibs on starting spot should one of the elderly gentlemen go down.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I disagree. I don't think anyone worth a damn is available.

A dozen vets who are better than Flynn and Brohm will be available. Even raggedy Culpepper, right now, is better than Brohm. Craig Nall is better than Brohm and Flynn.

I know these guys are bad values, but they WILL instantly make the Packers a better team.

Watch and learn.

[The Gunshooter]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season.


Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers?

You hit it on the head. Harris' play hinges on his physicality and smarts, he can't play zone because he has no recovery or closing speed. Compare him to someone like Deion Sanders who can stand in your face and push you and then run you down with 4.2 speed when he is beat.

Harris appeared better than he is last year because there are weaker links then him to attack, like Bush and Poppinga. Tramon Williams better be running a 4.1 with his small frame. He is just a dime back/special team guy.

[The Shadow]

I worry about Harris more than I worry about the defensive tackle spot, which will be stoter with Pickett's return.
Harris, to me, looks like a weak link. Would not be surprised to see him lose the starting job a bit later this year.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

[SnakeLH2006]

I predicted that the fade by Al Harris was only temporary, and that he would bounce back strong this season. He seems on track for that. Woodson, too, would be expected to still be good. Rodgers also seems to be on track for a good season. He doesn't have to be great, only moderately good, with all the talent around him.

I have not, however, been all that impressed with Brandon Jackson. Oh, he's an OK backup, a good receiver, etc., but the main thing he has shown is how much we need Grant to have a strong running attack. Jackson is ordinary; Grant is extraordinary.

Flynn has done well, and I think could step in if Rodgers went down short term. Brohm hasn't been good, but he has too much potential to give up on. I absolutely do NOT think Thompson should or will bring in some old-timer QB. Even if it isn't by trade and nothing is given up--just a free agent signing, bringing in a vet undoubtedly would mean losing either Brohm or Flynn. I, and probably Ted, think that is too big a price to pay. If Rodgers went down long term and had to go on IR, that might be different, but as of now, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING VET QB.

I thought so too, but he sure looked his age against bigger stronger receivers in the biggest games last year vs. TO and Burress. I'm sure him and Wood will have good years, but I'm wondering when/if either one of those dudes will go to safety in the next year or so if their speed keeps declining?

[Deputy Nutz]

I worry about Harris more than I worry about the defensive tackle spot, which will be stoter with Pickett's return.
Harris, to me, looks like a weak link. Would not be surprised to see him lose the starting job a bit later this year.

WTF!!! Harris is a weak link? He is getting older, and he has had bad games, that is life as a CB in the NFL. Burris was physical and Harris paid the price by either getting beat, or getting the yellow flag thrown at him. Playing on a frozen field certainly didn't help him either.

Harris is still one of the top 30 CBs in the league, is he Deon Sanders, no, but a weak link on the Packers that might get replaced later in the year? Absolutely not.

[SnakeLH2006]

I worry about Harris more than I worry about the defensive tackle spot, which will be stoter with Pickett's return.
Harris, to me, looks like a weak link. Would not be surprised to see him lose the starting job a bit later this year.

WTF!!! Harris is a weak link? He is getting older, and he has had bad games, that is life as a CB in the NFL. Burris was physical and Harris paid the price by either getting beat, or getting the yellow flag thrown at him. Playing on a frozen field certainly didn't help him either.

Harris is still one of the top 30 CBs in the league, is he Deon Sanders, no, but a weak link on the Packers that might get replaced later in the year? Absolutely not.

I agree Al is still a force..had a couple of bad games, but do we want Bush back there? :roll: Easily one of the best CB's in the game EVEN NOW, but he'd be a killa safety in a year or two.

[boiga]

Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie. You've got a point. Still, he was slotted as their #1 WR that game, wasn't he?


I thought so too, but he sure looked his age against bigger stronger receivers in the biggest games last year vs. TO and Burress. I'm sure him and Wood will have good years, but I'm wondering when/if either one of those dudes will go to safety in the next year or so if their speed keeps declining? TO and Burress can make ANY CB in the league look old. The problem is that our CB's are asked to do more than any other duo in the league. They are left on islands without any help from the safety. The coaches were slow to adapt to the fact that some tall, powerful WR's catching accurate passes on the sidelines can't be beat like that by any one CB. Sometimes even the best need help.

No Bly, Cromartie or anyone would have had a chance in those games the way Plax and TO played those nights.

[SnakeLH2006]

Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie. You've got a point. Still, he was slotted as their #1 WR that game, wasn't he?


I thought so too, but he sure looked his age against bigger stronger receivers in the biggest games last year vs. TO and Burress. I'm sure him and Wood will have good years, but I'm wondering when/if either one of those dudes will go to safety in the next year or so if their speed keeps declining? TO and Burress can make ANY CB in the league look old. The problem is that our CB's are asked to do more than any other duo in the league. They are left on islands without any help from the safety. The coaches were slow to adapt to the fact that some tall, powerful WR's catching accurate passes on the sidelines can't be beat like that by any one CB. Sometimes even the best need help.

No Bly, Cromartie or anyone would have had a chance in those games the way Plax and TO played those nights.

Umm...I was defending old ass Al. He's still good, but showed limitations (he brought that shit on himself saying he'd go 1-1 with ANYONE..that bullheaded shit fucked him in the end, and Kurt Shittenhemier didn't have the balls to say otherwise during the games)...hope they do now.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie. You've got a point. Still, he was slotted as their #1 WR that game, wasn't he?



I doubt it.

[mraynrand]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

[boiga]

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

Thanks for the reminder Mr Rand. I remembered him kicking the ass of the Lions' best receiver and for some reason assumed it was Johnson. Good memories though: that was a great game.

[Partial]

I worry about Harris more than I worry about the defensive tackle spot, which will be stoter with Pickett's return.
Harris, to me, looks like a weak link. Would not be surprised to see him lose the starting job a bit later this year.

WTF!!! Harris is a weak link? He is getting older, and he has had bad games, that is life as a CB in the NFL. Burris was physical and Harris paid the price by either getting beat, or getting the yellow flag thrown at him. Playing on a frozen field certainly didn't help him either.

Harris is still one of the top 30 CBs in the league, is he Deon Sanders, no, but a weak link on the Packers that might get replaced later in the year? Absolutely not.

People seem to forget that Burris is... a good receiver! He did, after all, school Asante Samual for the go-ahead TD in the super bowl on one ankle.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

[Partial]

I definitely agree that the proven commodity in RW is better at this point than CJ. CJ has tons of potential. Potential and production are two very different things though.

[mraynrand]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

You were off base because you didn't address the issue at hand - just handed out insults as usual. Harris covered their best receiver, as the post suggested. he just got the receivers confused. Now let's hear some more insults shall we.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

You were off base because you didn't address the issue at hand - just handed out insults as usual. Harris covered their best receiver, as the post suggested. he just got the receivers confused. Now let's hear some more insults shall we.

What insult? Get off the crack pipe. :roll:

Sorry, he asserted the CJ was the best receiver...that is what i contested. I could care less who harris covered or how well he did. The point was that CJ was their best receiver..he wasn't and isn't.

[mraynrand]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

You were off base because you didn't address the issue at hand - just handed out insults as usual. Harris covered their best receiver, as the post suggested. he just got the receivers confused. Now let's hear some more insults shall we.

What insult? Get off the crack pipe. :roll:

Sorry, he asserted the CJ was the best receiver...that is what i contested. I could care less who harris covered or how well he did. The point was that CJ was their best receiver..he wasn't and isn't.

I know. You made that point. But you were off base because you didn't address the point he was trying to make about Al Harris. Saying you were off base wasn't a criticism, just a fact of the exchange.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

You were off base because you didn't address the issue at hand - just handed out insults as usual. Harris covered their best receiver, as the post suggested. he just got the receivers confused. Now let's hear some more insults shall we.

What insult? Get off the crack pipe. :roll:

Sorry, he asserted the CJ was the best receiver...that is what i contested. I could care less who harris covered or how well he did. The point was that CJ was their best receiver..he wasn't and isn't.

I know. You made that point. But you were off base because you didn't address the point he was trying to make about Al Harris. Saying you were off base wasn't a criticism, just a fact of the exchange.

Can't address Harris because I don't recall the game nor did i want to research it. I can only work with the information presented.

[Noodle]

I saw some great footage from directly behind the line of Grant squeezing through some tiny creases last year. He hit them really quick too. I think the guy is the real deal, and will be worth more than what Ted paid him.

SC, I agree with you that Grant has it going on, I really respect the guy, and I'd have loved to have seen the "back's perspective" footage you saw.

(As an aside, friggin TV could do so much better to open our eyes as to what RBs and QBs actually see, but instead they rely almost exclusively on the side shot. Lazy bastards.)

What I don't buy is how a lot of folks dump on BJack because he seems "hesitant." You'd be hesitant too if you saw the Red Sea collapsing all around you.

[bobblehead]

Did Harris really fade? Or does he just struggle with big physical receivers? I'd agree with that. Al Harris game is all based around out muscling receivers at the line. However, there are 3 or 4 guys in the league that can beat Al out in a show of strength, pound for pound. Plaxico and TO fit that bill.

However, there are also the guys who are all speed but no strength that Al just beats down. Remember Calvin Johnson being thrown on his back last Thanksgiving? Al just removed the Lions best receiver from that game. No one else can do that.



Get off the crack pipe. Johnson isn't the Lion's best receiver. I think a receiver with 4 years experience and a pro bowl qualifies as that...over a rookie.

You're both a little off-base on this one. Al Harris spent most of his time shutting down the Lions' number one receiver, Roy Williams. The Lions DID game plan to go to the Rookie, and they threw a lot in his direction. he did better in the second half than the first, in which he had a number of drops.

I'm not off base. Johnson wasn't their best receiver. I never said who covered who.

You were off base because you didn't address the issue at hand - just handed out insults as usual. Harris covered their best receiver, as the post suggested. he just got the receivers confused. Now let's hear some more insults shall we.

What insult? Get off the crack pipe. :roll:

Sorry, he asserted the CJ was the best receiver...that is what i contested. I could care less who harris covered or how well he did. The point was that CJ was their best receiver..he wasn't and isn't.

I know. You made that point. But you were off base because you didn't address the point he was trying to make about Al Harris. Saying you were off base wasn't a criticism, just a fact of the exchange.

Can't address Harris because I don't recall the game nor did i want to research it. I can only work with the information presented.

I've got nothing to contribute, but I wanted in on this awesome big quote box.

[The Gunshooter]

I worry about Harris more than I worry about the defensive tackle spot, which will be stoter with Pickett's return.
Harris, to me, looks like a weak link. Would not be surprised to see him lose the starting job a bit later this year.

WTF!!! Harris is a weak link? He is getting older, and he has had bad games, that is life as a CB in the NFL. Burris was physical and Harris paid the price by either getting beat, or getting the yellow flag thrown at him. Playing on a frozen field certainly didn't help him either.

Harris is still one of the top 30 CBs in the league, is he Deon Sanders, no, but a weak link on the Packers that might get replaced later in the year? Absolutely not.

I agree Al is still a force..had a couple of bad games, but do we want Bush back there? :roll: Easily one of the best CB's in the game EVEN NOW, but he'd be a killa safety in a year or two.

If Harris can't play zone , he can't play safety.