You're The GM: Find Your Next D Lineman

[pbmax]

Here are the cuts for D Lineman so far. I am sure I have made some mistakes and omissions, feel free to correct. Bonus points if you can count how many ex-Badgers are in the list.

[pbmax]

DT Antonio Johnson (Titans)
DE Ervin Baldwin and Joe Clermond (Bears)
DE Ryan McBean, DT Scott Paxson and DE Jordan Reffett (Steelers)
DE Larry Birdine (Denver)
DT Mike Marquardt and DT Montae Reagor (Eagles)
NT Remi Ayodele, NT Junior Siavii, DE Marcus Smith and DE Marcus Dixon (Cowboys)
DE Brandon Miller, DT Rashad Moore and DT Montavious Stanley (Falcons)
DE Andre Coleman, DT Lamar Divens, DE Keith Grennan and DT Keith Jackson (Chargers)
DE Victor DeGrate and DE Rudy Hardie (Lions)
DL Thomas Johnson, DL Bryan Mattison and DL Ropati Pitoitua (Jets)
DT Joe Bradley, DE Jeff Charleston, DT Dan Davis, DT Colin Ferrell and DE Ben Ishola (Colts)
DT Larry Triplett (Seahawks)
DT Kevin Brown, DE Nu'u Tafisi, DL Santonio Thomas and DL Titus Adams (Patriots)
DE Derrick Gray, DE Greyson Gunheim, DT Josh Shaw (Raiders)
DT Nick Hayden, DE Stanley McClover, DL Steve Williams (Panthers)
DT Dre Moore (fourth-round pick in 2008), DE Patrick Chukwurah, DE Charles Bennett (Bucs)
DT Anthony Toribio (Dolphins)
DT Jason Jefferson, DE Derrick Jones, DT Corey Mace, DT Teraz McCray (Bills)

[HarveyWallbangers]

DT Antonio Johnson (Titans)
DEs Ervin Baldwin and Joe Clermond (Bears)
DE Ryan McBean, DT Scott Paxson and DE Jordan Reffett (Steelers)
DE Larry Birdine (Denver)
DT Mike Marquardt and DT Montae Reagor (Eagles)
NT Remi Ayodele, NT Junior Siavii, DE Marcus Smith and DE Marcus Dixon (Cowboys)
DE Brandon Miller, DT Rashad Moore and DT Montavious Stanley (Falcons)
DE Andre Coleman, DT Lamar Divens, DE Keith Grennan and DT Keith Jackson (Chargers)
DeGrate, Victor DE and Hardie, Rudy DE (Lions)
DL Thomas Johnson, DL Bryan Mattison and DL Ropati Pitoitua (Jets)
DT Joe Bradley, DE Jeff Charleston, DT Dan Davis, DT Colin Ferrell and DE Ben Ishola (Colts)
DT Larry Triplett (Seahawks)
DT Kevin Brown, DE Nu'u Tafisi, DL Santonio Thomas and DL Titus Adams (Patriots)
DE Derrick Gray, DE Greyson Gunheim, DT Josh Shaw (Raiders)
DT Nick Hayden, DE Stanley McClover, DL Steve Williams (Panthers)
DT Dre Moore (fourth-round pick in 2008), DE Patrick Chukwurah, DE Charles Bennett (Bucs)
DT Anthony Toribio (Dolphins)
DT Jason Jefferson, DE Derrick Jones, DT Corey Mace, DT Teraz McCray (Bills)

The one problem is that the Packers waiver priority will be low, so they may like somebody but not get him in a claim.

Junior Siavii (Dallas) and Santonio Thomas (New England) are two guys I'd look at. Dallas and New England are loaded on the DL, and these guys were the odd men out.

I think Larry Triplett is kind of undersized, and wouldn't fit our scheme that well.

Dre Moore was a 4th round pick this year.

Antonio Johnson was a 5th round pick last year.

Remi Ayodele got some run with the Cowboys last year. Rashad Moore is a run stuffing type DT.

[pbmax]

DE C.J. Ah You (Rams)
DE Rosevelt Colvin, DT Gabe Long, DT Anthony Maddox, DE Jesse Nading (Texans)
DL Jason Banks and Keilen Dykes. (Cardinals)
DL Darrell Campbell, DT Amon Gordon, DL Lorenzo Williams, (Ravens)
DT Matthias Askew, DT Ryan Boschetti, (Indigenous Persons)
DT Atiyyah Ellison, DT LaJuan Ramsey, DE Louis Holmes, DT Walter Curry (49ers)
DE Leger Douzable, DE Chris Norwell (Vikings)
DT Jesse Mahelona, DE Kenny Pettway and DE Bo SchobelDE Mkristo Bruce (Jaguars)
DT Orien Harris, DE Josh Savage (Saints)
DE Wallace Gilberry, DE Alex Morrow, DT Jeremy Clark, DT Ogemdi Nwagbuo (Giants)
DE Jason Parker, DE Johnny Dingle,. DT Derek Lokey (Chefs)
DL Melila Purcel, DL Chase Pittman (injured) (Browns)
NT Thomas Johnson (Jets)
DE Antwon Burton, DE Eric Henderson,DE Angelo Craig (Bengals)

[Bretsky]

Here are the cuts for D Lineman so far. I am sure I have made some mistakes and omissions, feel free to correct. Bonus points if you can count how many ex-Badgers are in the list.

2

[ND72]

Here are the cuts for D Lineman so far. I am sure I have made some mistakes and omissions, feel free to correct. Bonus points if you can count how many ex-Badgers are in the list.

2


I'd take a shot with Nick Hayden

[Bretsky]

Here are the cuts for D Lineman so far. I am sure I have made some mistakes and omissions, feel free to correct. Bonus points if you can count how many ex-Badgers are in the list.

2


I'd take a shot with Nick Hayden


I believe Hayden and Jason Jefferson are the two. I don't recognize any others

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Didn't Larry Birdine play good for us in the pre-season last year or the year before.

[Bretsky]

Didn't Larry Birdine play good for us in the pre-season last year or the year before.


I thought Birdine looked good for us last year and was a late cut back when our DL depth was healthy and deep

[Partial]

Didn't Larry Birdine play good for us in the pre-season last year or the year before.

Yep. He was one of the better players cut if I remember correctly. He had a few forced fumbles in the pre-season I seem to remember.

I am surprised he has bounced around as much as he has. I thought he'd be a good player.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Remember that Birdine had a serious issue with stamina, so he could look good in short stints playing against backups.

[Brohm]

Hopefully there is a young big-bodied run stuffer in there somewhere (or on someone elses roster that we can trade for) that TT likes. A good NT to spell Pickett, unfortunately those are even harder to come by. But hey Pickett fell through the cracks to us in free agency, maybe another misjudged NT is out there :P

[Lurker64]

Didn't Larry Birdine play good for us in the pre-season last year or the year before.

Yep. He was one of the better players cut if I remember correctly. He had a few forced fumbles in the pre-season I seem to remember.

I am surprised he has bounced around as much as he has. I thought he'd be a good player.

Birdine had serious motivation/conditioning issues with us during the first part of camp, and only came on towards the end, playing well in 2-3 preseason games. It's possible that these issues followed him elsewhere. IIRC he was offered a PS spot here, but declined it hoping to go somewhere he'd have more of an opportunity.

For example, an August 2 camp report last year had this to say about Birdine:

"Last year, one scout said of Oklahoma DE Larry Birdine: "Shuts it down when fatigued. Will hit the wall in tough workouts and struggle to finish. Questionable mental toughness. Likes to play on Saturdays." Give that man a raise. On Thursday morning, the rookie free agent barely made it through one of defensive line coach Robert Nunn's taxing individual periods. Then Birdine barely made it off the field before collapsing on all fours only 2 or 3 yards out of bounds during a team period. After several minutes, defensive end coach Carl Hairston inconspicuously came over to Birdine, leaned down and gave him a quick, sharp piece of his mind. Other players were snickering as one of the trainers stretched out Birdine, trying to get him up. A few fans in attendance snapped some pictures, prompting one defensive lineman to say later, "You can't let cameras get you like that." After 5 minutes, Birdine slowly walked the 100 yards or so to the cooling area and sat in the shade for the remainder of practice. Birdine was back practicing at night but he almost needn't have bothered. After that embarrassing episode, his career in Green Bay won't have long to last. "

So that sort of thing may be why he didn't make it elsewhere. I recall him coming on late in the preseason though, so who knows.

[Fred's Slacks]

DT Antonio Johnson (Titans)
NT Remi Ayodele, NT Junior Siavii, (Cowboys)
DT Rashad Moore (Falcons)
DT Keith Jackson (Chargers)
DT Dre Moore (fourth-round pick in 2008) (Bucs)


These are some of the guys who have run stuffing potential.

Isn't that our old TEs kid from Arkansas? I thought he was a pretty big prospect? I wouldn't mind bringing him in.

[pbmax]

McGinn on JSOnline "Packers Cut Backs" (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=789335)

McGinn says today that a scout says the Packers will not find DT relief in the cuts. If there is something there, the guy will not fall to them in the waiver order. We should know the waiver claims by early afternoon.

A scout also tells McGinn that Lasagna is a definite candidate for the practice squad because he can rush the passer and seems to indicate that Finley will eventually do the things Humphrey can do, and better, which would make Haynos a natural third TE or backup to provide blocking if they can get him on the PS.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hopefully there is a young big-bodied run stuffer in there somewhere (or on someone elses roster that we can trade for) that TT likes. A good NT to spell Pickett, unfortunately those are even harder to come by. But hey Pickett fell through the cracks to us in free agency, maybe another misjudged NT is out there :P

Pickett didn't really fall through the cracks. There was interest by several other teams, and he got $5M/year from us.

[Fritz]

I think that Donnell Washington and Cletidus Hunt are both available.

[pbmax]

Kenny Petersen is still on the Broncos, isn't he? Maybe that's the trade. Would it be just a little ironic if the one thing Sherman had a good read on as GM was drafting DTs? :lol:

Of course, some of them had Bengals syndrome. They fell in the draft because the were various shades of unstable or unmotivated. James Lee anyone?

[Bretsky]

Kenny Petersen is still on the Broncos, isn't he? Maybe that's the trade. Would it be just a little ironic if the one thing Sherman had a good read on as GM was drafting DTs? :lol:

Of course, some of them had Bengals syndrome. They fell in the draft because the were various shades of unstable or unmotivated. James Lee anyone?

I'm not sure Lee was unmotivated; he stayed in GB and worked out some in offseasons if I recall.

He just was not good

I remember OregonPF commenting after Green Bay traded up and selected Lee....that the guy was't good in college....he split time at his position...and it was baffling that GB would trade up and pick the guy.

[texaspackerbacker]

It wouldn't break me up if the Packers do nothing at all. We certainly don't need a DE, as we are overstocked there.

Moving Jenkins inside, along with Pickett and Cole and Jolly, and Jason Hunter showed he can play inside in passing situations, at least, that seems to me to be enough.

Picking up somebody and cutting the 7th LB--probably White is a possibility, but I just don't see it as urgent, and I doubt Ted does either.

[Scott Campbell]

We certainly don't need a DE, as we are overstocked there.



???

There's an outside chance we might be adequate - if KGB is healthy. Were overstocked at WR, and maybe LB.

[Brohm]

Hopefully there is a young big-bodied run stuffer in there somewhere (or on someone elses roster that we can trade for) that TT likes. A good NT to spell Pickett, unfortunately those are even harder to come by. But hey Pickett fell through the cracks to us in free agency, maybe another misjudged NT is out there :P

Pickett didn't really fall through the cracks. There was interest by several other teams, and he got $5M/year from us.

Poor choice of words on my part, I was speaking in regards to people viewing him as a first round bust due to him playing on those poor defensive STL teams.

[pbmax]

I disagree with Tex, we have a big need for a big DT. At this point it is way too late to think pass rush from this position. We need a run stopping stopgap.

We need to pick up Grady Jackson. He gets released about three times a year, so I am sure he will come available in the first six weeks.

[texaspackerbacker]

We certainly don't need a DE, as we are overstocked there.



???

There's an outside chance we might be adequate - if KGB is healthy. Were overstocked at WR, and maybe LB.

Kampman, Jenkins, KGB, Montgomery, Hunter, and Thompson, even Popinga in a pinch--I call that overstocked--even if Jenkins needs to move back inside a lot and Hunter needs to move inside a little.

[texaspackerbacker]

I disagree with Tex, we have a big need for a big DT. At this point it is way too late to think pass rush from this position. We need a run stopping stopgap.

We need to pick up Grady Jackson. He gets released about three times a year, so I am sure he will come available in the first six weeks.

We COULD USE a big run stuffer--that's different from NEED.

I wouldn't mind a Grady Jackson type--maybe even ol' Grady himself if he's still getting around OK, and cut White. I just don't think we NEED it, though--with Pickett, Cole, Jenkins, Jolly, and maybe Hunter for two spot--not to mention the possibly slim, maybe not slim chance of getting Harrell back healthy in six weeks.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I wouldn't mind a Grady Jackson type--maybe even ol' Grady himself if he's still getting around OK, and cut White. I just don't think we NEED it, though--with Pickett, Cole, Jenkins, Jolly, and maybe Hunter .

Jenkins and Hunter are not inside run stuffers, and Cole is not much of one. The are short on beef inside, no bout a doubt it.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wouldn't mind a Grady Jackson type--maybe even ol' Grady himself if he's still getting around OK, and cut White. I just don't think we NEED it, though--with Pickett, Cole, Jenkins, Jolly, and maybe Hunter .

Jenkins and Hunter are not inside run stuffers, and Cole is not much of one. The are short on beef inside, no bout a doubt it.

Yeah, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes you just gotta adjust and make due with what's there.

[pbmax]

Bretsky was right, there were 2 Badgers I saw on the list. Nick Hayden got signed by the Panthers. Jefferson is still out there from what I can tell.

[packers11]

a run stuffer is a need, the run D looked pretty damn weak in preseason. They ran it right at the DT's!

[Fritz]

At this point the Packers need more than just a body. They could've kept Muir for that. My solution would be to explore a trade, knowing you'll have to pay a high price to get a legitimate defensive tackle, not just a fill-in.

I'd start by seeing who might be available (not many, I'm sure). Maybe DT's coming into a contract year? Teams tight on cap space with a DT or two coming up on a contract? Then I'd ask how much I was willing to pay....a fourth rounder? A third? A second? A spare linebacker and a third rounder? What would I be willing to spend?

[HarveyWallbangers]

a run stuffer is a need, the run D looked pretty damn weak in preseason. They ran it right at the DT's!

Two problems with this: 1) our two starting DTs didn't play a lot in the preseason (Pickett didn't play at all and Jolly only played a game or two), 2) it's preseason. Our depth isn't great, but it turned out that it wasn't that great last year either. Williams is a good pass rusher, but when Jolly and Pickett were out last year, the run defense suffered. I do wish we had another big run clogging DT. I'm okay with Jenkins moving inside on passing downs, but it would be better to have somebody besides Colin Cole as a backup DT. Run clogging DTs are hard to find though.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Bates/Sanders defensive scheme calls for two, ideally, or at least one big run stuffer in the middle to allow the LBs, especially the MLB to roam and stop off teckle and outside runs. If your tackles are not quite so huge, you give up some moderate gains in the middle and your LBs have to be a little less quick to get outside.

None of that spells disaster, just a little bit more bending in the bend-don't-break type defense.

As was said, the successful running against the Packers was in large part, due to Pickett not playing. If he's back healthy, we will see more normalcy. If not, we still won't give up too much, especially when most teams don't have the patience to just run it upthe gut play after play.

[Partial]

a run stuffer is a need, the run D looked pretty damn weak in preseason. They ran it right at the DT's!

Two problems with this: 1) our two starting DTs didn't play a lot in the preseason (Pickett didn't play at all and Jolly only played a game or two), 2) it's preseason. Our depth isn't great, but it turned out that it wasn't that great last year either. Williams is a good pass rusher, but when Jolly and Pickett were out last year, the run defense suffered. I do wish we had another big run clogging DT. I'm okay with Jenkins moving inside on passing downs, but it would be better to have somebody besides Colin Cole as a backup DT. Run clogging DTs are hard to find though.

I disagree on our depth. Having such a deep defensive line was what helped us sustain a winning club throughout the mid-season injuries. At points of the season, Harrell, Pickett, Cole-train, KGB, Jenkins, and I believe one other was pretty banged up.

I'm worried about our lines. They've got a lot of good players on both sides, but bodies in the rehab room don't do us a lot of good come Vikings Monday. Hopefully they can ride it out for a few weeks than be back at full strength.

[Lurker64]

One thing I'm wondering is how much Sanders was influenced by seeing the Giants use so many DEs as DTs last year (successfully no less). The Giants lined up Justin Tuck at DT quite a bit and he's about the same size as Jason Hunter, Jeremy Thompson, and Michael Montgomery and quite a bit smaller than Jenkins. You can say that the Giants run a much more attacking style of defense than the standard Bates model, but that's one thing that we've heard out of Sanders in the offseason is that they intend to play a more "attacking" style of defense, which isn't the standard Bates concept (but instead more like what the Giants do).

We haven't seen much of that in the preseason, but teams seldom tip their hands on their defensive schemes in the preseason.

I'm interested to see if the Packers simply concluded that Muir and Bolston (and others) simply weren't a major improvement playing inside over our pile o' 275 DEs, who were more versatile and had more upside.

[motife]

Will the Packers add a defensive tackle?

"No," one scout said. "There's none to be had. Everybody is looking for those guys."

[texaspackerbacker]

I haven't actually done a correlation, but I bet a lot of the same people who whine the loudest about the Bates/Sanders defensive scheme/bend-don't-break/very limited blitzing are the same ones now crying about how we NEED a big ol' run stuffer.

Settle down, everybody. Thompson/McCarthy have it all under control. Everything will be all right. Trust me--better yet, trust them--the people who brought you 13-3/14-4 last season.