Packers Boot Ryan!?

[POLISHHAWK]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/01/packer-boot-ryan/

[SkinBasket]

There has to be something more to all this. Seems very meth head machine gunner for Ted, who usually works at a more leisurely and measured pace.

[red]

i don't like the idea of just signing a guy cold and giving him the starting job

ryan has a hell of a leg, but he was very inconsistent. if you don't like your punter though, bring in someone during preseason to compete for the job.

just don't replace your 2 year starter with a guy whos never even been in one of our practices before

[pbmax]

Its a Chris Jacke situation all over again.


There has to be something more to all this. Seems very meth head machine gunner for Ted, who usually works at a more leisurely and measured pace.

[Zool]

There has to be something more to all this. Seems very meth head machine gunner for Ted, who usually works at a more leisurely and measured pace.

I thought that too, but whats the timeframe on waiver wire claims? Maybe he was just waiting it out to see what punters were released. Packers would be pretty low on the priority list based on 13-3 last year. If the period is 24 hours, the earliest all the released players would be FA's would be 5pm lastnight. From that point its a brand new contract, not picking up the contract the player had with the other team.

We knew another long snapper would be here but maybe Ryan was going to be the punter unless something better became available for the right price?

[texaspackerbacker]

Wow, I thought Ryan was one of the pleasant surprises of the preseason. But then, he's started good and then dropped off like a rock the other years too.

I don't know anything about this Frost. Anybody know if he's any good?

[mmmdk]

Its a Chris Jacke situation all over again.


There has to be something more to all this. Seems very meth head machine gunner for Ted, who usually works at a more leisurely and measured pace.

Jon Ryan went to bed with McCarthy's daughter? :shock: :lol:

[sheepshead]

i don't like the idea of just signing a guy cold and giving him the starting job

ryan has a hell of a leg, but he was very inconsistent. if you don't like your punter though, bring in someone during preseason to compete for the job.

just don't replace your 2 year starter with a guy whos never even been in one of our practices before

says who?

[mmmdk]

Wow, I thought Ryan was one of the pleasant surprises of the preseason. But then, he's started good and then dropped off like a rock the other years too.

I don't know anything about this Frost. Anybody know if he's any good?

Nope but I feel a Frost coming... 8-)

[red]

i don't like the idea of just signing a guy cold and giving him the starting job

ryan has a hell of a leg, but he was very inconsistent. if you don't like your punter though, bring in someone during preseason to compete for the job.

just don't replace your 2 year starter with a guy whos never even been in one of our practices before

says who?

says the people who just got rid of him

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/01/hang-time-lands-brooks-job/


The punting battle between rookie Durant Brooks and Derrick Frost came down to hang time and consistency. Frost never proved he could deliver either to the satisfaction of the Washington Redskins, and the three-year incumbent lost his job to Brooks as a result.

"It was based on the last three years that Frost was here ... on Durant and competition this year and ... what we've seen in Durant and his continued improvement," coach Jim Zorn said Sunday.

from reading some posts on the redskins boards he has trouble with hangtime, often outkicks his coverage, and still tends to kick the ball into the endzone

doesn't exactly instill great confidence in me. at least with ryan we would get a huge freakish blast every now and then

[Rastak]

i don't like the idea of just signing a guy cold and giving him the starting job

ryan has a hell of a leg, but he was very inconsistent. if you don't like your punter though, bring in someone during preseason to compete for the job.

just don't replace your 2 year starter with a guy whos never even been in one of our practices before

says who?


A poster here?

[cpk1994]

Why in the hell would TT make this move this close to the opener. I have agreed with most decisions, but if the punter costs GB the first game TT should have his nuts torn off.

[Rastak]

Why in the hell would TT make this move this close to the opener. I have agreed with most decisions, but if the punter costs GB the first game TT should have his nuts torn off.



Maybe a stern warning first, then have his nuts torn off?

[cpk1994]

Why in the hell would TT make this move this close to the opener. I have agreed with most decisions, but if the punter costs GB the first game TT should have his nuts torn off.



Maybe a stern warning first, then have his nuts torn off?No warnings here. :lol:

Seriously though, TT is a bonehead in this decision to switch punters at the last minute.

[Noodle]

Big surprise, but I have to give TT some benefit of the doubt. I thought he was f'ed up to let a proven commodity like Longwell go, but time proved him right.

Maybe TT's an idiot savant with kickers and RBs, though not so much with OL.

But still, damn!

[cpk1994]

Big surprise, but I have to give TT some benefit of the doubt. I thought he was f'ed up to let a proven commodity like Longwell go, but time proved him right.

Maybe TT's an idiot savant with kickers and RBs, though not so much with OL.

But still, damn!But he didn't let Longwell go 6 days before the season opener. Thats what makes this decision so dumb. If he was not happy with Ryan he shouldn't have released Debauche so fast or at least brought someone into camp. This is just boneheaded all around.

[MJZiggy]

I think he was waiting to see who got cut. Maybe he's been following this guy hoping he'd come available. (like he did with Grant)

[MadtownPacker]

The gets the ball and boots the shit out of it. How much preparation is needed? The new guy can either punt of he cant.Ryan shanks too damn many and the ones he doesnt shank always end up touchbacks. I agree with TT on this move.

[boiga]

Stock speaks

Three days after the Packers swapped punters, cutting Jon Ryan and signing fifth-year pro Derrick Frost, special teams coordinator Mike Stock said Ryan’s failure to improve his get-away time played a major role in the team’s decision.

“That’s been slow for two years,” Stock said. “I’m not throwing Ryan under the bus — I’m just saying (get-away time is) one of those things we’ve been working on the whole entire time. This guy (Frost)’s a true two-step kicker and gets the ball away in a very early time, and that’s very important for the protection element.”

Ryan converted to a two-step punting technique during the 2007 offseason, but at times reverted to his old technique. Though Ryan’s net average improved significantly last season — from 35.7 yards as a rookie in 2006 to 37.6, moving him from 26th in the NFL to 14th — he had one notably poor performance on Dec. 23 at Chicago and had two punts blocked. This preseason, he had one punt partially blocked and another returned for a touchdown.

“Coach McCarthy and Ted (Thompson, the general manager) and I were not happy with (Ryan’s) progress, that’s the big point,” Stock said. “You come in on Mondays and talk about the same problems, the same things we needed to improve upon, particularly one element and you want to get better, and you keep working to get better and you spend the offseason physically, to diligently get better, and those things keep occurring week after week.

“You have to change. Eventually, you have to change. In order to help yourself, you need to change. Evidently — don’t get me wrong, it is not easy, but that’s part of the deal.”
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080904/PKR01/80904142/1954/PKR03

Sigh... I suppose that makes sense. I'll still miss the guy though.

[Scott Campbell]

I appreciate the frank explanation.

[Partial]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

[Carolina_Packer]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

Stop using facts to make your points, Ty.

[pbmax]

Did anyone notice the new Redskin punter Durant shank one last night in the second half? Nothing is more consistently entertaining than out smarting Daniel Snyder. I would be rooting for Frost for that reason alone.

John Bonamego had a stellar reputation as a ST coach of the Jaguars when Sherman hired him. He then proceeded to stink out loud for the rest of his stay. He didn't somehow get dumber here. His players stunk and he had two punters, neither of whom could man the gunner position.

The players are better now, ergo, the ST are better now. Stock doesn't need to be a genius ST coach, as long as he can identify what makes a punter and the punt unit successful. If the GM and Stock found Ryan, why do you think they could not find a better replacement?

[cpk1994]

Did anyone notice the new Redskin punter Durant shank one last night in the second half? Nothing is more consistently entertaining than out smarting Daniel Snyder. I would be rooting for Frost for that reason alone.

John Bonamego had a stellar reputation as a ST coach of the Jaguars when Sherman hired him. He then proceeded to stink out loud for the rest of his stay. He didn't somehow get dumber here. His players stunk and he had two punters, neither of whom could man the gunner position.

The players are better now, ergo, the ST are better now. Stock doesn't need to be a genius ST coach, as long as he can identify what makes a punter and the punt unit successful. If the GM and Stock found Ryan, why do you think they could not find a better replacement?The point that some are making is that its not that Ryan was released but that WHEN he was released. It is a highly(and moronic IMHO) decision to release him 6 days before the opener. If Frost fails week one TT is going to look real foolish.

[Lurker64]

The point that some are making is that its not that Ryan was released but that WHEN he was released. It is a highly(and moronic IMHO) decision to release him 6 days before the opener. If Frost fails week one TT is going to look real foolish.

This isn't really unusual. Teams scout not only the punting battles in their camps but the punting battles in other camps as well. It's common for a team to keep just one punter in camp, knowing that some people will end up cutting a punter and if that guy cut is better than the guy you have, you can pick him up at the waiver wire. We picked up Frost right after he cleared Waivers and we were eligible to sign him. Getting him earlier wasn't really possible. We released Ryan when we got Frost, and we got Frost as soon as we could. There's nothing questionable about the timing.

After all, punters are pretty much "hot swappable" parts. You put them back there, and they catch the ball when the LS slings it to them, and then they kick the ball. There's not a ton of chemistry needed.

[hoosier]

Stock speaks

Three days after the Packers swapped punters, cutting Jon Ryan and signing fifth-year pro Derrick Frost, special teams coordinator Mike Stock said Ryan’s failure to improve his get-away time played a major role in the team’s decision.

“That’s been slow for two years,” Stock said. “I’m not throwing Ryan under the bus — I’m just saying (get-away time is) one of those things we’ve been working on the whole entire time. This guy (Frost)’s a true two-step kicker and gets the ball away in a very early time, and that’s very important for the protection element.”

Ryan converted to a two-step punting technique during the 2007 offseason, but at times reverted to his old technique. Though Ryan’s net average improved significantly last season — from 35.7 yards as a rookie in 2006 to 37.6, moving him from 26th in the NFL to 14th — he had one notably poor performance on Dec. 23 at Chicago and had two punts blocked. This preseason, he had one punt partially blocked and another returned for a touchdown.

“Coach McCarthy and Ted (Thompson, the general manager) and I were not happy with (Ryan’s) progress, that’s the big point,” Stock said. “You come in on Mondays and talk about the same problems, the same things we needed to improve upon, particularly one element and you want to get better, and you keep working to get better and you spend the offseason physically, to diligently get better, and those things keep occurring week after week.

“You have to change. Eventually, you have to change. In order to help yourself, you need to change. Evidently — don’t get me wrong, it is not easy, but that’s part of the deal.”
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080904/PKR01/80904142/1954/PKR03

Sigh... I suppose that makes sense. I'll still miss the guy though.

Brutally frank. What happened to make the phrase "throwing him under the bus" unavoidable in these situations? Sometimes you can tell you're going to run into it before you even start reading the article.

[MadScientist]

[quote="Lurker64"After all, punters are pretty much "hot swappable" parts. You put them back there, and they catch the ball when the LS slings it to them, and then they kick the ball. There's not a ton of chemistry needed.[/quote]

Except for the holding aspect of it. There is a definite need for chemistry between the holder and the kicker, although how hard it is to get it right depends on how fussy the kicker is.

I wish the Vikings did something like this just to see the reaction from Longwell.

[Lurker64]

Except for the holding aspect of it. There is a definite need for chemistry between the holder and the kicker, although how hard it is to get it right depends on how fussy the kicker is.

From all indications I've seen, Crosby isn't very picky about his holder. As long as the guy catches the ball and gets it down, Crosby has said he's happy. I imagine that made it easier to replace Ryan.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Did anyone notice the new Redskin punter Durant shank one last night in the second half? Nothing is more consistently entertaining than out smarting Daniel Snyder. I would be rooting for Frost for that reason alone.

John Bonamego had a stellar reputation as a ST coach of the Jaguars when Sherman hired him. He then proceeded to stink out loud for the rest of his stay. He didn't somehow get dumber here. His players stunk and he had two punters, neither of whom could man the gunner position.

The players are better now, ergo, the ST are better now. Stock doesn't need to be a genius ST coach, as long as he can identify what makes a punter and the punt unit successful. If the GM and Stock found Ryan, why do you think they could not find a better replacement?The point that some are making is that its not that Ryan was released but that WHEN he was released. It is a highly(and moronic IMHO) decision to release him 6 days before the opener. If Frost fails week one TT is going to look real foolish.

Right. We should have held on to him and then replaced him in the middle of the season. :roll:

Replacing punters and kickers is done all the time in season. Talk about a tempest in a teapot.

[RashanGary]

In Longwell's defense, it was his contract year and it did effect him (probably effected his pay as well).

[Partial]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

So he's averages out to average. Our quality coaching staff doesn't need to be brought down with Average.

[HarveyWallbangers]

DP TP

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

So he's averages out to average. Our quality coaching staff doesn't need to be brought down with Average.

What?

[sepporepi]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

As did McCarthy.

He was the offensive Cordinator of the worst offense in the league (SF).

Do you don't like him as well beacuse of it?

[Partial]

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

So he's averages out to average. Our quality coaching staff doesn't need to be brought down with Average.

What?

If he did awful before coming here (worst in the league), and did well with our wealth of talent, that doesn't necessarily mean he's a good coach. It shows me that he's average. I don't want an average coach on my coaching staff, personally.

I really don't like this move. It sounds like he really didn't care for Ryan, but given his track record should we care what he thinks? Seems to me he lobbied TT hard. We're taking a significant decrease in net yardage among other stats for 7% better pooch punting. I don't get it.

[Partial]

No, because he was hand chosen by TT after a series of interviews. I raelly like M3. I don't care for Stock from day one.

[falco]

No, because he was hand chosen by TT after a series of interviews. I raelly like M3. I don't care for Stock from day one.

in his defense, its hard to get passionate about a special teams coach

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Why I appreciate the explanation, I don't really trust Mike Stock's opinion. His career has been horrendous and I've always felt he's been a very weak link. He came in here as what, the coach of the worst unit in the league?

So, you discount him taking one of the youngest teams and making them 7th overall..according to the Dallas Morning News?

Hmm..4th in punt return average, 2nd in punt coverage, and 4th in kickoff coverage in the NFC.

And, was the coach of Crosby.

And, was the coach of Ryan who improved?

So he's averages out to average. Our quality coaching staff doesn't need to be brought down with Average.

How do you figure that out?

So, you are blaming him for signing rayner and ryan?