Anybody know anything about purchasing diamond rings... [Archive]

Fosco33

06-19-2006, 01:56 PM

at a mall store? My co worker is looking to take the plunge, dont worry I already tried to warn him off but he isnt listenting. He found a ring for the little lady at Zales Diamonds and it is about 5k. What do you think he could talk them down too?

When I asked my wife I just paid what they asked hehe. I have NO IDEA how much you can negotiate with them.

THANKS!

I've taken negotiation classes - there are pretty neat tips/tricks (don't be the first to offer, don't accept the first offer, counter a few times, pull the walk-a-way, etc.). Best advice in negotiation, everything is up for negotiation and in this type of purchase (one-time, little risk of bad relationship), he should be able to either package the rings together (either her engagement, his marriage, her marriage or all three) and nudge them down quite a bit. The power is in the info available so he should read up diamonds and check other sites before committing (kinda like picking a wife :lol:

Tony Oday

06-19-2006, 02:26 PM

BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! picking a wife are you crazy the second you even attempt this she has all the power and you lose!

Fosco33

06-19-2006, 02:51 PM

BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! picking a wife are you crazy the second you even attempt this she has all the power and you lose!

Not in my case - she's tried a few times to get me down that path. I'm in a rare, wonderful place :lol:

Tony Oday

06-19-2006, 03:10 PM

ya for how long? ;) hehe

I was in that wonderful place until I had a kid! now she rules the house and I just go golfing :)

Fosco33

06-19-2006, 03:29 PM

ya for how long? ;) hehe

I was in that wonderful place until I had a kid! now she rules the house and I just go golfing :)

I've been with her for 3.5 yrs+. About 1.5 yrs into it, she started with the questions and the pressure - after weeks of telling her that's not what I'm down for I had to break it off. Then, I was single (kinda) for like 3 months and we (she) came to the realization that marriage isn't in the future unless kids are involved. It's by far the healthiest relationship I've been in and I'm loving it. Cheers

Deputy Nutz

06-19-2006, 04:31 PM

Diamonds are for ever, but why pay the credit bill for them until your 50?

Tell your friend to stay the fuck out of the malls and look online for trade shows or whole sale diamond and jewelry shows in or around his area. I have gone down to Rosemont Illinois for the better part of 5 years buying diamonds with my buddies that are getting engaged.

I haven't gone in two years so I haven't gotten an invitation to this place. You have to bargin with these people as well, but you start out at a way lower price.

I haggled with a jewelry shop in the mall for some emerald earings and ring for my wife, and they always have a sale going so don't buy that shit just on the sale price alone. I got them to come down like another 25% on some bogus coupon the sales lady pulled out of her ass.

Tony Oday

06-19-2006, 04:45 PM

thanks nutz. I really have no idea on jewelry. I know on used cars take the KBB trade in value at average condition and that is more than likely what they paid for it. Mortgages well thats just what I do so I know how to get those. Jewelry I just pay the prices and thats why I came here for him. My wife already has all the jewelry that she is going to get! :)

CaptainKickass

06-19-2006, 04:58 PM

Take her shopping for the ring, find out exactly what kind of setting/design she likes and be certain to get the sizing proper....but DO NOT PURCHASE that ring and do not allow her to pressure you into it while she is around.

Then - you go and purchase the exact same setting/design but instead you go and get CUBIC ZERCONIA. After all, the ring is a symbol of your love for each other and your bond in the witness of God. It should not matter what it's made of. Feel free to tell her what you have done so that you are not being shady or nefarious.

Then - before you give her the ring - you sit down together and hammer out the details of the Pre-Nuptuial Agreement to protect everything you have up until the day of the wedding.

A couple of points here:

If she demands a diamond - she is not the right woman.
If she refuses to sign a pre-nup - she is not the right woman.

The right woman will have your best interests at heart.

Harlan Huckleby

06-19-2006, 06:34 PM

Nothing says "I love you" like a big screen TV. A diamond ring is very sweet. But think of the two of you, curled-up on your couch, watching some romatic movie on a cold winter's night. That's quality time. Is this purchase negotiable?

retailguy

06-19-2006, 07:52 PM

If she demands a diamond - she is not the right woman.
If she refuses to sign a pre-nup - she is not the right woman.

The right woman will have your best interests at heart.

Captain - you are obviously single and destined to stay that way.

Tony,

Here is what I know. Gold/Precious Stones are at least priced at triple keystone. What this means, is that if the jeweler paid $100, then he will sell it for $300. Silver is priced typically at 5 times keystone. Paid $100 then sell for $500. Silver prices are actually quite high right now, so the margin to the end consumer may be suffering a bit, but it is probably no lower than 4 times keystone for non-sale merchandise.

Ok. The larger the jewelry store, the larger the markup. Mall stores and overhead are EXTREMELY expensive. Zales typically offers lower quality stones at the same price as a local jewelers quality stones. Jewelers are like loan sharks. You don't really know if you can trust them, most of the time you cannot. Zales, located in the center court of a decent mall probably pays about $15,000 a month in rent, plus a percentage of sales above a certain "target" amount. When you look at it that way, combined with the sales person who probably works on "straight commission" - good sales person, bad deals, or on a "base salary plus commission" - crummy sales person with little experience & no authority to make deals, getting a "good price" at the mall is going to be difficult.

My advice to your "friend" is to skip the mall store in favor of a small town jeweler that has been in his small town location since time began. Have him talk with his mother, grandmother, aunt, next door neighbor or a friend for a referral. He'll pay about the same or just slightly more than the mall store, get better service and some basis to believe he got what he paid for.

Negotiation is just that, negotiation. It is almost pointless in my opinion, because how do you know that you're getting the stone you think you're getting? Can you look at it and see that it is the clarity/color that you think it is? What keeps the jeweler from swapping the stone in the back room? In my experience, 50 years in business in the same location keeps the jeweler from doing that, and not much else.

Finally, a 50% off sale in the jewelry business approximates the mark up that you pay for most other consumer goods in the marketplace. A 50% off sale is a gimmick designed to move inventory that is becoming stale.

Hope this helps, PM me with details if you wish, and I'll help you further.

FavreChild

06-19-2006, 09:53 PM

Ha ha - here is a lady's opinion - although I use the term loosely, 'cause not many of my lady friends see it my way.

Actually, I agree with the Captain. If a ring is that important to her, let her pick it out. You can surprise her with the proposal and all, but then lose the male ego and let her pick out the one she wants.

Personally, I would like Harlan's route - please buy me an HD TV with NFL Sunday ticket. But I'm sure I am in a 5% or less minority of women. Yes, I would like to have a diamond ring, but I would be prouder if I could afford to buy it for myself. Yes, I know I am young and naive...

GrnBay007

06-19-2006, 09:56 PM

Tell your buddy I'll sell him mine. I'm not using it anymore. :razz: :wink:

Iron Mike

06-19-2006, 10:16 PM

Tell your friend to stay the fuck out of the malls and look online for trade shows or whole sale diamond and jewelry shows in or around his area. I have gone down to Rosemont Illinois for the better part of 5 years buying diamonds with my buddies that are getting engaged.

*nodsnodsnods*

Yep. I bought a single stone in White Plains, NY from a diamond merchant from the diamond district in NYC who was selling lesser-quality stones out of his house.

In 1988, I bought a 44-point single stone (that's close to 1/2 carat, BTW) for $350.00. It had a few inclusions, but whose getting out a loupe to look for them?? Do the math yourself and figure out how much it's worth today.

You can ALWAYS purchase a single stone for yourself and then pay a jeweler to mount it in a setting of your choice--at significant $ savings.

Iron Mike

06-19-2006, 10:18 PM

Tell your buddy I'll sell him mine. I'm not using it anymore. :razz: :wink:

Heh.......get ahold of his fiancee, 'cuz I have a wedding ring she could get on the cheap.

Tony Oday

06-20-2006, 02:47 PM

thanks for the help the keystone thing actually made sense. He'll love it and yes it is for a friend I have been married for 3 years already I just didnt have anyone to ask this stuff. I just paid what they asked :)

CaptainKickass

06-20-2006, 04:24 PM

Actually, I agree with the Captain.

Thanks FC you seem to be anything but young and naive- :mrgreen:

Retailguy -

If by "single and destined to remain that way" you mean that I'm not legally bound to a woman and if we decide to part ways I'm not on the hook for half my money - then you are absolutely correct.

I am a hopeless romantic when it comes to the ladies - exhibiting qualities of a proper gentleman provided she exhibits the ladylike class to warrant such treatment. More than half of all marriages end in divorce, and if you have any friends who are divorced or married for longer than 2 years, you'll see that there are more unhappy couples as a result of marriage.

I prefer to go against the norm and find ladies that are ok with this type of forward thinking. I'll cite Gene Simmons of Kiss for being an example here. He has been with the same woman for around 20 years with no marriage, no wedding ring, and no legal bond. The things that keep them together are the things that marriages are supposed to be about; trust, faith, desire, love, fun, support, encouragement, etc.etc. - which are the exact things I look for in a relationship with a woman.

How many jokes have you heard about what women and men become after marriage? Why do you think they're funny?

Because they are based in truth.

A few cliche's to live by:

"We learn from the past that people seldom learn from the past"

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting different results"

Regards,

The Captain

MJZiggy

06-20-2006, 05:14 PM

I prefer to go against the norm and find ladies that are ok with this type of forward thinking. I'll cite Gene Simmons of Kiss for being an example here. He has been with the same woman for around 20 years with no marriage, no wedding ring, and no legal bond. The things that keep them together are the things that marriages are supposed to be about; trust, faith, desire, love, fun, support, encouragement, etc.etc. - which are the exact things I look for in a relationship with a woman.

Should Gene Simmons and his lady ever split, she will get half of everything as they have been together a long time. Have you ever heard of common law marriage? I can tell you will all confidence that piece of paper or no, Gene Simmons is married as are you if you've been living with your current SO for more than 8 years. You just didn't get the cake.

CaptainKickass

06-20-2006, 06:14 PM

Should Gene Simmons and his lady ever split, she will get half of everything as they have been together a long time. Have you ever heard of common law marriage? I can tell you will all confidence that piece of paper or no, Gene Simmons is married as are you if you've been living with your current SO for more than 8 years. You just didn't get the cake.

Correct to a point MJZiggy- There are only 10 states that recognize common law as of today, but it depends largely on what state you reside in, and how you go about conducting yourselves socially and legally. Hence the original reference to the pre-nuptuial.

Check out this link for some facts and myths regarding common law marriage: http://www.unmarried.org/common.html

Here's the bare bones of the deal - I do not want to be with a woman who is in it for my money. I'm no millionaire, but I have a great job with a major software company, a condo in the Juanita Country Club, and I can afford to do fun things like book an all expenses paid vacation to fly to Green Bay for a home game.

I've had this discussion many times with friends and acquaintances. If a woman is in love with me and is truly committed to being with me for who I am and not what I have - then that makes conventional marriage irrelevant.

Cheers!

MadtownPacker

06-20-2006, 07:10 PM

My advice? DONT BUY HER SHIT!!!

GrnBay007

06-20-2006, 10:29 PM

My advice? DONT BUY HER SHIT!!!

well, well.........I see it's about time for another round of sensitivity training for someone. :razz:

-

GrnBay007

06-20-2006, 11:18 PM

Hence the original reference to the pre-nuptuial.

In a relationship, the word prenuptial agreement brings about all kinds of feelings/thoughts of no trust and uncalled for thoughts the relationship/marriage won't last. Very untrue IMO.

It wouldn't bother me a bit to sign a prenuptial agreement. In fact at this stage in my life, having a good job and having kids, I just might be the one to request it. .....damn, wish I would have thought of that!! :razz:

CaptainKickass

06-21-2006, 03:31 PM

In a relationship, the word prenuptial agreement brings about all kinds of feelings/thoughts of no trust and uncalled for thoughts the relationship/marriage won't last. Very untrue IMO.

I look at it this way - you don't do anything much without some sort of warranty or insurance. The Pre-Nup is simply divorce insurance.

I am not opposed to marriage but there is certainly something not quite right with both the system and society. Nearly all of the financial risk in marriage in the US is on the man due to the historic "provider" stereotype. If I am going to proceed with marriage then you bet your sweet, sweet hiney I want some kind of insurance.

cosimoto

06-21-2006, 11:55 PM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g183/cosimoto/SamuraiGB7.jpg I think the bigger question is: Why are women attracted to small shiny objects?

GrnBay007

06-22-2006, 12:05 AM

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g183/cosimoto/SamuraiGB7.jpg I think the bigger question is: Why are women attracted to small shiny objects?

Who said we are attracted to small diamonds??? :razz:

-

CaptainKickass

06-26-2006, 06:40 PM

The real question here is:

Why are women attracted to diamonds at all?

??

Harlan Huckleby

06-26-2006, 06:46 PM

The real question here is:

Why are women attracted to diamonds at all?

??

That's a kickass question! In all the fairy tales, the BEAUTIFUL damsel gets saved by the RICH prince, and they go live in his castle.

If the guy spends a lot of money, he must be a good provider, and he must love her a lot.

I don't know. Why do we care about big breasts?

Bretsky

06-26-2006, 06:47 PM

The real question here is:

Why are women attracted to diamonds at all?

??

Because those artificial stupid rocks are expensive

MJZiggy

06-26-2006, 08:03 PM

Supposedly the gold band represents "love that has no beginning and no end" and the diamond represents permanence and scarcity as it is the hardest material on earth and "true love is scarce" and it is expensive meaning that you value her and your relationship (and you're not taking off while you're still paying for that rock).

Evidently it was a whole advertising thing done by deBeers around the turn of the century. It is truly the offseason.

PackerPro42

06-26-2006, 09:23 PM

I agree with Madtownpacker. Don't buy her shit.

Bretsky

06-26-2006, 09:49 PM

I agree with Madtownpacker. Don't buy her shit.

ditto

MJZiggy

06-27-2006, 06:54 AM

I agree with Madtownpacker. Don't buy her shit.

ditto

B, are you telling me that Mrs. Bretsky is not sporting a sweet little piece of stone on her finger?

Bretsky

06-27-2006, 07:49 AM

I agree with Madtownpacker. Don't buy her shit.

ditto

B, are you telling me that Mrs. Bretsky is not sporting a sweet little piece of stone on her finger?

NO; can't say that. Smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

I'm not smart :wink:

Harlan Huckleby

06-27-2006, 09:10 AM

B, are you telling me that Mrs. Bretsky is not sporting a sweet little piece of stone on her finger?

What Ziggy is saying is nice people buy diamond rings.

Ya, people laugh about how silly a custom it is.

But when it comes right down to it, it is still an expectation, re-enforced by social pressure by the Diamondistas.

Bachelors of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!!!! Down with Diamond facism!!! Death to Ziggy!

MJZiggy

06-27-2006, 02:24 PM

Hey!!! That's a little extreme, wouldn't you say? So much for that little bauble I had planned for you for Christmas...

Harlan Huckleby

06-27-2006, 03:19 PM

Sorry, perhaps I over-reacted. Maybe just a few lashes. Do you have bed posts?

Little Whiskey

06-27-2006, 03:32 PM

there is a lot of things we do because of customs and traditions. didn't each of you call your mom on mothers day? how about give or get gifts at christmas? hell, we are all packer fans (all but the trolls :mrgreen: ) one of the teams steeped with the most history and tradition. why do you have brats when you attend a game?? why do you tailgate before and after?? why not just go to a resturant? the answere is simple tradition/history.

CaptainKickass

06-27-2006, 05:27 PM

the answere is simple tradition/history.

At the risk of becoming an echoing repetitive dual redundancy"

"Why are women attracted to diamonds in the first place?"

Tradition, history, and clever marketing are not why men buy diamonds for women nor are they why women are attracted to them. Men buy diamonds for women because it's what the women want - and if the men want to keep on gettin' that booty under the ruse of monogamy, then they will pony up.

But what started it? Why does it have to be a diamond? Why can't it be a piece of quartz or sandstone? Why are women offended if it's cubic zerconia?

Is the wedding ring a symbol as we have been taught? Or is it really a measure of worth?

I guess in the end it's all up to the individual and/or couple.

What really bothers me is seeing people do these kinds of things because "it's what we're supposed to do". As if their life is a script and all they need to do is read along until they die. They go along with the script without research of the potential consequences of these decisions and then later on they wonder "how did it all happen?".

Many of my friends are going through some of this kind of thing, be it marriage, child custody, buying/selling a house, or even what to major in.

Be original - Learn from other people's pasts.

The Leaper

06-28-2006, 08:46 AM

The best way to get a good value on a diamond is to go to a place that sells high quality stuff...forget mall stores.

My opinion on diamonds? Avoid FL, IF, or VVS clarity...too big a premium. Aim to find a VS clarity stone...these include minor imperfections, but ones that are impossible to see without magnification and that do not impact the beauty of the stone. As for size...avoid stones that are at or just above a major size threshold. People pay a premium to say they have a full 1 carat stone...when a stone that is .9 carats is virtually indistinguishable, especially if it has a great cut and clarity. However, the one that is .9 carats with the same size and clarity of the 1 carat is typically 15-20% cheaper.

If you are in Ohio, I recommend the Diamond Cellar in Columbus. Top notch outfit that makes sure you get the best stone you can afford, and puts you at ease during the process...unlike most mall stores.

Partial

04-09-2007, 01:03 AM

This is an interesting topic of discussion.

To those who refuse or don't think you should get your women a diamond rock, I question your commitment and love to the woman.

For better or worse, De Beers has taken an abudant resource, moved all over the world avoiding anti-trust laws to make us pay a premium price for a mineral of great natural beauty.

Women love these because
A. It's the traditional thing to do
B. That sort of investment shows you are serious about them and the relationship by making such a large commitment

and most importantly,
C. Women are beautiful beings that like to look pretty and attractive for you.

There is nothing better than when I buy the girlfriend a nice piece of jewelry, even like some 30 dollar earrings, then when she wears them the first time.

She will take a good long shower, clean out all her pores, shave her entire body so its smooth as silk, put lotion on so its even smoother yet, put a victoria secret little number on, and then put on a pretty dress, or a very nice, flattering outfit, then she will do her hair and makeup all nice, and put on some good, tall shoes all for me, because women love knowing their guy only has eyes for them and love feeling like they are gods gift to their man.

Then, we'll have some amazing love making that night because she looks like an angel and I made her feel beautiful and loved.

That right there is why you get your gal an engagement ring, and you get her the nicest one you can afford if you love her.

I know that I will save up even longer than the alloted two month salary when that time comes. I will probably go for four months and get her something big and beautiful that she will wear and feel gorgeous in every day for the rest of her life.

After all, so you drop 16gs on a ring, you're going to work the rest of your life to pay that off. And that moment when you take her breath away will make every second of it worth it.

the_idle_threat

04-09-2007, 02:45 AM

That's beautiful man... You are a true romantic (a.k.a. pussy). :P

BallHawk

04-09-2007, 05:52 AM

And cubic zirconium gets the job done just the same at a fraction of the cost.

MJZiggy

04-09-2007, 06:49 AM

Not when you consider the cost of the divorce when she finds out you lied.

Partial

04-09-2007, 06:59 AM

I really think the divorce rate would go down tremendously if people would just discuss things before acting, especially in regards to their children, and make sure they are a united front.

BallHawk

04-09-2007, 07:01 AM

I really think the divorce rate would go down tremendously if people would just discuss things before acting, especially in regards to their children, and make sure they are a united front.

Not to mention cheating on them. That usually pisses your spouse off.

packinpatland

04-09-2007, 07:35 AM

A diamond ring, or any ring for that matter, given specifically as an engagement ring must be returned to the 'giver' in the event of a split.
A ring given at a time like Valentines' Day, Christmas, Birthday, is viewed as a gift and can be kept even if there is a split, even if there is talk of engagement at that time.
Two of my daughters guy friends have lost in court in trying to get back engagement rings. One was presented at a birthday, the other for Christmas. Judge ruled for the girls both times, because they could technically be viewed as 'gifts'.

Zool

04-09-2007, 07:57 AM

The manpons are in isle 6, next to the manziers.

CaptainKickass

04-09-2007, 09:16 AM

Geez Partial - you're bringing this thread out of the old cellar? You must be getting bored.

Partial

04-09-2007, 09:50 AM

Yeah i've got nothing going on and my buddy Joel is buying his lady a ring sometime this week, so I figured i'd see what this thread said.

pacfan

04-09-2007, 11:12 AM

Have your buddy get the cubic zirconium ring, then have them watch "Blood Diamond". It'll help with the mood. :twisted:

Merlin

04-09-2007, 03:18 PM

Captain - you are obviously single and destined to stay that way.

Tony,

Here is what I know. Gold/Precious Stones are at least priced at triple keystone. What this means, is that if the jeweler paid $100, then he will sell it for $300. Silver is priced typically at 5 times keystone. Paid $100 then sell for $500. Silver prices are actually quite high right now, so the margin to the end consumer may be suffering a bit, but it is probably no lower than 4 times keystone for non-sale merchandise.

Ok. The larger the jewelry store, the larger the markup. Mall stores and overhead are EXTREMELY expensive. Zales typically offers lower quality stones at the same price as a local jewelers quality stones. Jewelers are like loan sharks. You don't really know if you can trust them, most of the time you cannot. Zales, located in the center court of a decent mall probably pays about $15,000 a month in rent, plus a percentage of sales above a certain "target" amount. When you look at it that way, combined with the sales person who probably works on "straight commission" - good sales person, bad deals, or on a "base salary plus commission" - crummy sales person with little experience & no authority to make deals, getting a "good price" at the mall is going to be difficult.

My advice to your "friend" is to skip the mall store in favor of a small town jeweler that has been in his small town location since time began. Have him talk with his mother, grandmother, aunt, next door neighbor or a friend for a referral. He'll pay about the same or just slightly more than the mall store, get better service and some basis to believe he got what he paid for.

Negotiation is just that, negotiation. It is almost pointless in my opinion, because how do you know that you're getting the stone you think you're getting? Can you look at it and see that it is the clarity/color that you think it is? What keeps the jeweler from swapping the stone in the back room? In my experience, 50 years in business in the same location keeps the jeweler from doing that, and not much else.

Finally, a 50% off sale in the jewelry business approximates the mark up that you pay for most other consumer goods in the marketplace. A 50% off sale is a gimmick designed to move inventory that is becoming stale.

Hope this helps, PM me with details if you wish, and I'll help you further.

I have to agree with this one. Better yet, get out of the country and you will get great prices on precious stones. It seems that only in America is this stuff expensive. Jewelry is one of the biggest rip offs there is. I bought my wife a sterling silver ring with a 1.5 ct tanzenite, .75 ct of diamonds and opal in it for less than $100. All of it is authentic, I had it checked. The reason it was so cheap? First, the sterling silver setting. Second, I didn't buy it here! The was appraised at $1500 by the jewelers here.

Partial

04-09-2007, 03:29 PM

What country has such cheap diamonds?

GrnBay007

04-09-2007, 03:39 PM

oregonpackfan

04-09-2007, 05:58 PM

My advice? DONT BUY HER SHIT!!!

Madtown,

Have you considered a career in couples counseling? :)

GBRulz

04-09-2007, 06:08 PM

have them watch "Blood Diamond". It'll help with the mood. :twisted:

How disturbing that movie was!! Sounds like that stuff is still going on.

If that's the case I don't care if I ever wear a diamond again!

I agree. Even after that Kimberly Process was passed, I have no doubt that wars and stuff are still being funded by diamonds.

MadtownPacker

04-09-2007, 07:56 PM

My advice? DONT BUY HER SHIT!!!

Madtown,

Have you considered a career in couples counseling? :)
As a mtter a fact I have!

I will be scheduling some seminars throughtout the US. It will be called "Why the hell should she be happy when you are working double shifts to pay off that damn ring" conference. I promise it to be an inspirational hour filled with laughs, food and instructions on how to find someone who loves you for you and not for what you buy them.

There will also be a mini session on how to turn your testicles into diamonds for those who insist on sacrifcing themselves, I mean getting married. :lol:

oregonpackfan

04-09-2007, 09:16 PM