Did Harrell have his surgery yet?

[StPaulPackFan]

I haven't seen any news on Harrell since TT said it looked like he needed another surgery.

The JSOnline Blog stated that Harrell was doing rehab at practice today. I hope this is post-op rehab.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I believe he had it right after it was announced he would go on the PUP list.

[StPaulPackFan]

I believe he had it right after it was announced he would go on the PUP list.

That's what I thought too, but I haven't heard anything official.

[packers04]

yeh tt said harrell had it like the next day.
it was in one of his press conferences.

[PackerTimer]

I don't remember where I saw it, but I remember reading or hearing that he had the surgery and everything went well. Hopefully he can get back this season. He is dangerously approaching bust status.

[Harlan Huckleby]

how can you have back surgery and return to play DT in two months?

I know pro athletes bodies are well conditioned, and I believe TT said JH is in good shape despite the back problem. I'm skeptical.

[PackerTimer]

how can you have back surgery and return to play DT in two months?

I know pro athletes bodies are well conditioned, and I believe TT said JH is in good shape despite the back problem. I'm skeptical.

I'm a little skeptical myself. But he better get out there and play. A first round draft pick who has barely seen the field in two years is not good. Let me preemptively say it was different with AROD.

[Brohm]

Yeah it was actually completed the day prior to JH going on the PUP. That being said, as much as I would like to see him play, I would rather him sit out the year and have it fixed permanently as opposed to a reoccuring flare-up that could affect his long term career.

[Pugger]

Do any of you know what kind of procedure he had?? :?:

[Pacopete4]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.. do we owe him any money? The guy hasn't done anything in the league and probably never will and will make more money than I'll see... pisses me off

[Scott Campbell]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.


Only our marbles.

[Pacopete4]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.


Only our marbles.


How bout an intelligent response to a question I was asking? Not a hard concept..

[Rastak]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.


Only our marbles.


How bout an intelligent response to a question I was asking? Not a hard concept..


Likely to be a cap hit and it wouldn't make any sense not to give him another year.

[Scott Campbell]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.


Only our marbles.


How bout an intelligent response to a question I was asking? Not a hard concept..


Of course. How bout you ask an intelligent question first?


Unless the injury is career ending, they ain't going to cut the guy. Period. Not this season anyway.

[Pacopete4]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.


Only our marbles.


How bout an intelligent response to a question I was asking? Not a hard concept..


Of course. How bout you ask an intelligent question first?


Unless the injury is career ending, they ain't going to cut the guy. Period. Not this season anyway.


What career?...

[Scott Campbell]

What career?...


The one that's paid him more than you'll make in your lifetime. :lol:





.......and will make more money than I'll see... pisses me off

[Pacopete4]

What career?...


The one that's paid him more than you'll make in your lifetime.


Being 'Ok' in college does not give him a careen IMO

[Lurker64]

What career?...

DTs (even first round DTs) not doing anything to speak of in their first two seasons in the NFL is actually a fairly common position. It's the second most important position on the field and one of the hardest to draft. Harrell has enough potential (a dirty word, I know) that they're not going to cut him until they're absolutely sure he won't turn it around and make a career out of it.

You have to admit, if you watched line play in the late season, he definitely flashed a little potential in holding the point.

[Scott Campbell]

What career?...

DTs (even first round DTs) not doing anything to speak of in their first two seasons in the NFL is actually a fairly common position. It's the second most important position on the field and one of the hardest to draft. Harrell has enough potential (a dirty word, I know) that they're not going to cut him until they're absolutely sure he won't turn it around and make a career out of it.

You have to admit, if you watched line play in the late season, he definitely flashed a little potential in holding the point.



He adores Brett. He hates Ted. Ted drafted JH. So he hates JH too. There's no point using logic with these sheep.

[Pacopete4]

What career?...

DTs (even first round DTs) not doing anything to speak of in their first two seasons in the NFL is actually a fairly common position. It's the second most important position on the field and one of the hardest to draft. Harrell has enough potential (a dirty word, I know) that they're not going to cut him until they're absolutely sure he won't turn it around and make a career out of it.

You have to admit, if you watched line play in the late season, he definitely flashed a little potential in holding the point.



He adores Brett. He hates Ted. Ted drafted JH. So he hates JH too. There's no talking point using logic with these sheep.


Can you please not make everything about Brett? :whaa:


I just hate a fat, lazy, injured guy collecting millions of dollars from us, doing jackshit... its sickening

[Joemailman]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.. do we owe him any money? The guy hasn't done anything in the league and probably never will and will make more money than I'll see... pisses me off

Based on this thinking, Ron Wolf should have given up on Mike Flanagan after two years. Flanagan didn't get on the field until his 3rd season because of injuries. Didn't start a game until his 5th. If you think someone has a chance to be really good, it pays to have some patience.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I'm a little skeptical myself. But he better get out there and play. A first round draft pick who has barely seen the field in two years is not good. Let me preemptively say it was different with Aaron Rodgers.

Drafting Brady Quinn (and keeping Corey Williams) looks a lot better option in hindsight than drafting Harrell.

[Lurker64]

Drafting Brady Quinn (and keeping Corey Williams) looks a lot better option in hindsight than drafting Harrell.

Really, I'm convinced that people on this board seriously overrate Corey Williams and/or misunderstand DT play. Corey Williams was great at one thing: inside pass rush. He was mediocre at every other job his position does, notably stopping the run. A DT's responsibility is first and foremost to stop the run inside. His second responsibility is to collapse the pocket so the QB can't step up. Actually "rushing the passer" is a perk, but not a responsibility.

Harrell is a run-stuffing pocket-collapsing DT, but not a pass-rushing DT. Corey Williams is a pass-rushing DT but not a run-stuffing or pocket-collapsing DT. Williams is a perfect DE in the 3-4, but is not a particularly good every day DT in the 4-3.

Just keep reminding yourself that Williams was less good at stopping the run than Colin Cole was last year, after Pickett and Jolly got hurt. Williams is a good guy to have on your roster for the Packers, but he's not a starter in the 4-3 and he's not worth (to us) what he got paid or what he would have gotten paid if he signed the Franchise tender.

[Guiness]

Just keep reminding yourself that Williams was less good at stopping the run than Colin Cole was last year, after Pickett and Jolly got hurt. Williams is a good guy to have on your roster for the Packers, but he's not a starter in the 4-3 and he's not worth (to us) what he got paid or what he would have gotten paid if he signed the Franchise tender.

You had me until the last line. Everything else you said I agree with. He was most certainly worth what he would've gotten for the Franchise tender in any case, but when you factor in our cap situation, and that we're down to 3 healthy DT's, he was easily worth it.

[Zool]

In our scheme, the DT's are actually supposed to occupy all 3 interior lineman to let the LB's flow free to the ball. Williams is a great nickel DT, but like Lurk said, not great at occupying blockers in the run game. He'll probably do well in a 3-4 opposite the rush OLB.

[Bretsky]

Drafting Brady Quinn (and keeping Corey Williams) looks a lot better option in hindsight than drafting Harrell.

Really, I'm convinced that people on this board seriously overrate Corey Williams and/or misunderstand DT play. Corey Williams was great at one thing: inside pass rush. He was mediocre at every other job his position does, notably stopping the run. A DT's responsibility is first and foremost to stop the run inside. His second responsibility is to collapse the pocket so the QB can't step up. Actually "rushing the passer" is a perk, but not a responsibility.

Harrell is a run-stuffing pocket-collapsing DT, but not a pass-rushing DT. Corey Williams is a pass-rushing DT but not a run-stuffing or pocket-collapsing DT. Williams is a perfect DE in the 3-4, but is not a particularly good every day DT in the 4-3.

Just keep reminding yourself that Williams was less good at stopping the run than Colin Cole was last year, after Pickett and Jolly got hurt. Williams is a good guy to have on your roster for the Packers, but he's not a starter in the 4-3 and he's not worth (to us) what he got paid or what he would have gotten paid if he signed the Franchise tender.

He had the most sacks of any DT the past couple years
He is far more valuable than Colin Cole; I'm not even sure I'd agree that Cole was better as a run stuffer.

I don't view Williams as being remotely dominant; against the run he was below average. But don't fool yourself into thinking we will not greatly miss him. We don't have a guy equivalent to what he offers on the field right now.

[Zool]

I don't view Williams as being remotely dominant; against the run he was below average. But don't fool yourself into thinking we will not greatly miss him. We don't have a guy equivalent to what he offers on the field right now.

Cullen Jenkins.

[Bretsky]

I don't view Williams as being remotely dominant; against the run he was below average. But don't fool yourself into thinking we will not greatly miss him. We don't have a guy equivalent to what he offers on the field right now.

Cullen Jenkins.

Don't buy it; Jenkins showed some effectiveness at the end but did not show the burst/penetration off the ball when he was at DT. He was just a guy. I always thought he was alright; a nice fill in at DT. At DE he showed us he could be better two years ago. Hopefully it was injuries that held him back last year.

[Zool]

Cullen is better at stopping the run, not as much of a pass rusher though. Then again did he really get to line up next to Pickett much?

[Bretsky]

Cullen is better at stopping the run, not as much of a pass rusher though. Then again did he really get to line up next to Pickett much?

Then I fall back to the statement of not having a guy remotely equivalent; we need to find a guy who can penetrate against the pass like Williams.

I agree Cullen is slightly better against the run, but he's not dominant either. Plus we can't leave KGB against the run so Jenkins needs to stay on the outside.

I don't think Willaims is a superstar by any means; I was for them getting a 2nd for him. Not crazy about the backup QB for him....but time will tell.

With that being said, our DL is definitely less talented w/o him.

[Joemailman]

Williams was definitely a very good situational player, but had only 1 sack last year once he was inserted in the starting lineup. I think Daniel Muir was the biggest disappointment of training camp, and was probably being counted on to fill at least some of CW"s role this year. I imagine this position will be a major focus in next year's draft.

[NewsBruin]

I believe he had a diskectomy, or at least a partial one. The physical relief is immediate, and once the incision heals and the swelling goes down, he should be okay (minus a back that's less cushiony and more prone to arthritis).

I think two months seems short, but it would be a good time frame for him to heal, and then resume conditioning, lifting, and technique at a pace that's not likely to cause him to reinjure himself by going overboard.

[mmmdk]

what will we lose if we just cut the guy right now.. do we owe him any money? The guy hasn't done anything in the league and probably never will and will make more money than I'll see... pisses me off

Based on this thinking, Ron Wolf should have given up on Mike Flanagan after two years. Flanagan didn't get on the field until his 3rd season because of injuries. Didn't start a game until his 5th. If you think someone has a chance to be really good, it pays to have some patience.

Listen to Joe & Wolf.

[Partial]

doctor said I need a back-iomotimy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Two years ago, Jenkins looked average at DT and good at DE. Last year, he almost looked better at DT. Kind of funny, but Cullen actually pressured the QB more than Williams last year. He had a pressure every 30 snaps. Williams had a pressure every 37 snaps. I know DEs tend to have more pressures, but Williams also had a higher percentage of snaps on passing downs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Williams was definitely a very good situational player, but had only 1 sack last year once he was inserted in the starting lineup. I think Daniel Muir was the biggest disappointment of training camp, and was probably being counted on to fill at least some of CW"s role this year. I imagine this position will be a major focus in next year's draft.

He also had a disproportionate amount of sacks for pressures. We'll see what happens. I don't like our depth at DT either. I was hoping Harrell would be healthy and Muir would improve. Now, Jenkins may have to play inside even more, and not just on passing downs. We could really use Mike Montgomery and Jason Hunter showing big improvement.

[Brohm]

Keep an eye on Jenkins on pass rush attempts, his spin move is just sick. Problem he has is any nick or scratch makes him ineffective against the pass. When healthy he is as good, if not better than Williams.

[Pugger]

I don't understand why there is all this pining for C. Williams. When Jolly went on IR last season and Williams got extensive playing time our pass rush/D line play really suffered. And it really came to roost in the NFC Championship game. The Giants ran all day long, Eli had all day back there to pick apart our DBs and Plaxico had a big night. :(

[Zool]

doctor said I need a back-iomotimy.

I want a HUNDRED AND FIDDY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

but we can settle
out of court right now for $20

[run pMc]

JH had the surgery as noted already and is rehabbing it.
It is extremely unlikely that TT cuts the guy this year. My guess is next year is do-or-die. There is a cap hit.
Agree with other posters that C.Williams was a good inside pass rusher, but his run D wasn't as good and as a platoon player probably not worth franchise $ and a starting spot. I can't imagine TT paying a him more than his 2 starting DT's (Pickett & Jolly) combined.
Would like to see JH get healthy and contribute, as well as Cullen Jenkins showing he is more than a 4-game phenom.

[SnakeLH2006]

I'm a little skeptical myself. But he better get out there and play. A first round draft pick who has barely seen the field in two years is not good. Let me preemptively say it was different with Aaron Rodgers.

Drafting Brady Quinn (and keeping Corey Williams) looks a lot better option in hindsight than drafting Harrell.

True, Justin Harrell is a joke...the NFL player too.... :lol: as he can only hope to be a bust and look this cool.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/04/20/gallery.nfldraftbusts/gallery_bosworthnew1.jpg

[Jerry Tagge]

I haven't seen any news on Harrell since TT said it looked like he needed another surgery.

The JSOnline Blog stated that Harrell was doing rehab at practice today. I hope this is post-op rehab.
This was the guy TT had to have instead of getting Cleveland's first round pick this year so they could take Brady Quinn.

TT could have gotten Reggie Nelson with the 16th pick in 2007. Nah, we don't need Reggie Nelson, we have Nick Collins.

Another great pick by TT. Right up there with a QB who is more fragile than Rex Grossman and a WR on a team that was supposedly loaded at WR.

I guess the Packers don't need a passing rushing DE or any offensive lineman. TT does great picking O lineman. Colledge, Spitz, Moll, Coston, and Barbre are all going to the Pro Bowl.

Yes sir, that TT sure knows how to pick em.

[SnakeLH2006]

I haven't seen any news on Harrell since TT said it looked like he needed another surgery.

The JSOnline Blog stated that Harrell was doing rehab at practice today. I hope this is post-op rehab.
This was the guy TT had to have instead of getting Cleveland's first round pick this year so they could take Brady Quinn.

TT could have gotten Reggie Nelson with the 16th pick in 2007. Nah, we don't need Reggie Nelson, we have Nick Collins.

Another great pick by TT. Right up there with a QB who is more fragile than Rex Grossman and a WR on a team that was supposedly loaded at WR.

I guess the Packers don't need a passing rushing DE or any offensive lineman. TT does great picking O lineman. Colledge, Spitz, Moll, Coston, and Barbre are all going to the Pro Bowl.

Yes sir, that TT sure knows how to pick em.

Fuck ya dude...err. Yoda..Awesome post.

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/yoda-starwars-demotivational-poster.jpg

[Fritz]

Interestingly, for all this talk of Corey Williams as a defensive tackle, the Browns are going to use him at end:

"With Williams out, the starting line has been Shaun Smith and Robaire Smith at ends and Shaun Rogers at nose tackle. Williams will join the end rotation once he's healthy enough. Sunday, he participated in a few individual drills." (Browns Insider)

This supports Lurker's point and the point others are making that Williams, nice though he might be to have in the Packer rotation, is not someone you can point to as a replacement for the injured Harrell. Two completely different kinds of guys, and having Williams here would not ease the loss of Harrell very much at all. It might affect your third-and-long rotation, but that's about it.

[b bulldog]

The browns run a 3/4 so you can't compare the two. I thought harrell would be a bust once it was printed that he couldn't hardly complete the Dline drills as a rookie.

[RashanGary]

The browns run a 3/4 so you can't compare the two. I thought harrell would be a bust once it was printed that he couldn't hardly complete the Dline drills as a rookie.



WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[b bulldog]

Going through a divorce!, going after someone for contractor fraud, selling 2 homes, going to my good friends funeral today. It has been a shitty summer to put it lightly.

[Fritz]

Sucks, B Bull. Sorry to hear about it all.

I went through a divorce this year, too, but mine is over now - I've been on my own for ten months now.

Just look one hour at a time. Just get through it, lean on family and friends.

One year ago ago, I was sick with grief. All I could think about was my wife and why she wanted a divorce.

How things have changed in a year. Don't even try to look ahead, B Bull - you'll never be able to guess where you'll be. And it might be someplace really, really good.

It is for me, now. Hope it will be for you.

[Fred's Slacks]

This was the guy TT had to have instead of getting Cleveland's first round pick this year so they could take Brady Quinn.

TT could have gotten Reggie Nelson with the 16th pick in 2007. Nah, we don't need Reggie Nelson, we have Nick Collins.

Another great pick by TT. Right up there with a QB who is more fragile than Rex Grossman and a WR on a team that was supposedly loaded at WR.

I guess the Packers don't need a passing rushing DE or any offensive lineman. TT does great picking O lineman. Colledge, Spitz, Moll, Coston, and Barbre are all going to the Pro Bowl.

Yes sir, that TT sure knows how to pick em.

Yeah, TT has been far from perfect. But you can point to bad moves for every GM in the league. You have to judge a GM by their total body of work. It's not about being perfect, it about adding talent to the roster every year. TT has a plan for doing that and he sticks to it.

The reason for all the things you point to above is because he picks the best player available, not for need. I'd much rather add a good player at a position of strength then a mediocre player at a position of need. If you're already mediocre at a position, how does it help to add more mediocre players? So we have to put up with taking a Harrell when we could have used Nelson. I'll take that if it gives us Aaron Rodgers, James Jones, Desmond Bishop, Mason Crosby, Josh Sitton, Johnny Jolly, Matt Flynn, Jordy Nelson or other players we didn't "need" at the time but were the best available. It's the reason we can go 13-3 with the youngest team in the league. It's also the reason we can lose a hall of fame quarterback and still be many's favorite to win the division.

[esoxx]

Bust.

[RashanGary]

Going through a divorce!, going after someone for contractor fraud, selling 2 homes, going to my good friends funeral today. It has been a shitty summer to put it lightly.

Knowing you the little I do, I think you'll handle it well, one challenge at a time and come out the other end in a good place.

[pbmax]

Well looking at Brady Quinn's performance so far as a starter I can see why people love him.

[bobblehead]

how can you have back surgery and return to play DT in two months?

I know pro athletes bodies are well conditioned, and I believe TT said JH is in good shape despite the back problem. I'm skeptical.


8 IU a day of HgH will do wonders for the healing process. WWE wrestlers come back from horrific injuries in months.....yet the FDA is doing its best to make sure you and I don't get to use it.

And no, HgH isn't causing wrestlers to kill their families, other drugs do that.

[bobblehead]

What career?...


The one that's paid him more than you'll make in your lifetime.


Being 'Ok' in college does not give him a careen IMO

Go stand next to harrell, then stand next to anyone else. When you do that you will understand why they are still high on the guy. When you lose the hatred for TT you will stop wanting to drop all his picks because a bit of adversity hits. When favre was leading a second sherman's march through georgia's club scene and succumbing to vicodin were you ready to cut him lose too? I believe that is similar to the stage harrells career is at right now.

PS...we should have cut Jenkins after he did nothing his first two years...and kampman too, and KGB, and.....well you get the idea...oh yea, al harris was on the practice squad...what a bust.

[bobblehead]

What career?...

DTs (even first round DTs) not doing anything to speak of in their first two seasons in the NFL is actually a fairly common position. It's the second most important position on the field and one of the hardest to draft. Harrell has enough potential (a dirty word, I know) that they're not going to cut him until they're absolutely sure he won't turn it around and make a career out of it.

You have to admit, if you watched line play in the late season, he definitely flashed a little potential in holding the point.



He adores Brett. He hates Ted. Ted drafted JH. So he hates JH too. There's no talking point using logic with these sheep.


Can you please not make everything about Brett? :whaa:


I just hate a fat, lazy, injured guy collecting millions of dollars from us, doing jackshit... its sickening

Then why did you want the 38 year old who neglected offseason workouts back so bad??

[cpk1994]

What career?...

DTs (even first round DTs) not doing anything to speak of in their first two seasons in the NFL is actually a fairly common position. It's the second most important position on the field and one of the hardest to draft. Harrell has enough potential (a dirty word, I know) that they're not going to cut him until they're absolutely sure he won't turn it around and make a career out of it.

You have to admit, if you watched line play in the late season, he definitely flashed a little potential in holding the point.



He adores Brett. He hates Ted. Ted drafted JH. So he hates JH too. There's no talking point using logic with these sheep.


Can you please not make everything about Brett? :whaa:


I just hate a fat, lazy, injured guy collecting millions of dollars from us, doing jackshit... its sickening

Then why did you want the 38 year old who neglected offseason workouts back so bad??
Nice.

EDIT: That said, take the high road.

[b bulldog]

Fritz and Nick, thanks for the positive words. As anyone knows who has gone through this, this is really, really a diffiult time. For those of you who are happily married, cherish your spouse because divorce rips you apart and takes the life out of you.

[Rastak]

Fritz and Nick, thanks for the positive words. As anyone knows who has gone through this, this is really, really a diffiult time. For those of you who are happily married, cherish your spouse because divorce rips you apart and takes the life out of you.


Best of luck Bulldog. I know my uncle dropped about 30 pounds he couldn't afford to lose when his loser wife ( I ain't kidding) dumped him. He was in shock.

He is remarried and the happiest he has been in his life now....but man was he a miserable son of a bitch back then. Funny how things can change after the storm.