Yes, I can relate....

[packinpatland]

'Vanity Fair editors estimated that McCain's fierce saffron shirt dress with the popped collar, diamond earrings, four-strand pearl necklace, white Chanel watch and strappy shoes totaled up to $313,100.'


..........can't you all? :roll:

[mraynrand]

'Vanity Fair editors estimated that McCain's fierce saffron shirt dress with the popped collar, diamond earrings, four-strand pearl necklace, white Chanel watch and strappy shoes totaled up to $313,100.'


..........can't you all? :roll:

I don't see the earrings.


http://rcrawford79.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mccain.jpg

[retailguy]

'Vanity Fair editors estimated that McCain's fierce saffron shirt dress with the popped collar, diamond earrings, four-strand pearl necklace, white Chanel watch and strappy shoes totaled up to $313,100.'


..........can't you all? :roll:


Notice that they estimated the earrings at $280k.... but you cleverly left that out of the story..... huh. You also left out the "lower" estimate. yep. you are fair and balanced.... :roll:

[packinpatland]

I didn't leave anything out........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_en_ot/cvn_gop_fashion

So, if they estimated the earrings at $280k, does that bring her total ensemble to almost $750K?

Vanity Fair, I would think, knows what they are talking about.......I believe their 'estimations' to be true.

[SkinBasket]

Vanity Fair, I would think, knows what they are talking about.......I believe their 'estimations' to be true.

I love Vanity Fair. It's dark and glossy and sexy. Very editorial and very self important. So self important it makes me feel more important just reading it. Hell, I don't even have to read it. If I manage to steal a copy from the gay dentist's office, just leaving it on the shitter makes my poop feel more important. I think from top to bottom, that publication has people that honestly believe what they're doing is changing the world. It's entertaining to read.

[Zool]

Vanity Fair, I would think, knows what they are talking about.......I believe their 'estimations' to be true.

I love Vanity Fair. It's dark and glossy and sexy. Very editorial and very self important. So self important it makes me feel more important just reading it. Hell, I don't even have to read it. If I manage to steal a copy from the gay dentist's office, just leaving it on the shitter makes my poop feel more important. I think from top to bottom, that publication has people that honestly believe what they're doing is changing the world. It's entertaining to read.

Hmmm I would think you would subtract the cost of the earrings from the $313k but thats just me. Its crazy i know, but isnt it possible this is like any other nationally televised program where jewelry companies put their stuff on loan as to get the name out?

And like Skin says, a gossip/fashion rag is the absolute perfect place for solid and accurate information. Such as

GAY CARS
“Outing” the Dodge Ram

or

HURRICANES
What Gustav Can’t Fix

Solid journalism.

Edit: I wish I made those 2 articles up, unfortunately both are right on their front page.

[packinpatland]

Come on............I think you know what I meant. I'm simply saying that when it comes to fashion......they would know their stuff and their estimates would be pretty much inline. VF has been around since 1914.....that has to count for something. I'm not suggesting reading VF to keep up on political issues...or any 'real' issues, for that matter...........

As to what you do with your stolen copy of Vanity Fair............I really don't care.

[retailguy]

I didn't leave anything out........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_en_ot/cvn_gop_fashion

So, if they estimated the earrings at $280k, does that bring her total ensemble to almost $750K?

Vanity Fair, I would think, knows what they are talking about.......I believe their 'estimations' to be true.

Well, then, Yahoo! did. Here's the breakdown:

Cindy McCain
Oscar de la Renta dress: $3,000
Chanel J12 White Ceramic Watch: $4,500
Three-carat diamond earrings: $280,000
Four-strand pearl necklace: $11,000–$25,000
Shoes, designer unknown: $600
Total: Between $299,100 and $313,100

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/09/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html


Ok, so, I'll withdraw my objection IF AND ONLY IF, we start including the appraised value of a woman's wedding ring in with the "estimated value" of their ensemble.... Even most "poor people" would then have relatively espensive wardrobes...

This whole thing is STUPID. The McCain's are wealthy. That's a proven fact. SO WHAT? Seems to me it would be the appropriate time and place to break out the 3 carat beauties if you've got 'em.

But seriously, don't you think including women's earrings that total 89% of the value they quoted for the whole wardrobe to be "slightly" misleading? Hell, PIP, this is National Enquirer stuff!

I guess jealously can't be eliminated, but, really, if you had the money that Cindy McCain has, can you honestly say you wouldn't have a few "toys" too?

[mraynrand]

This is just another example of leftist stooges engaging in class warfare. The left wants radical egalitarianism (equality of outcome) not equality of opportunity. Selective Envy and jealousy are the just the symptoms.

[packinpatland]

I didn't leave anything out........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_en_ot/cvn_gop_fashion

So, if they estimated the earrings at $280k, does that bring her total ensemble to almost $750K?

Vanity Fair, I would think, knows what they are talking about.......I believe their 'estimations' to be true.

Well, then, Yahoo! did. Here's the breakdown:

Cindy McCain
Oscar de la Renta dress: $3,000
Chanel J12 White Ceramic Watch: $4,500
Three-carat diamond earrings: $280,000
Four-strand pearl necklace: $11,000–$25,000
Shoes, designer unknown: $600
Total: Between $299,100 and $313,100

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/09/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html


Ok, so, I'll withdraw my objection IF AND ONLY IF, we start including the appraised value of a woman's wedding ring in with the "estimated value" of their ensemble.... Even most "poor people" would then have relatively espensive wardrobes...

This whole thing is STUPID. The McCain's are wealthy. That's a proven fact. SO WHAT? Seems to me it would be the appropriate time and place to break out the 3 carat beauties if you've got 'em.

But seriously, don't you think including women's earrings that total 89% of the value they quoted for the whole wardrobe to be "slightly" misleading? Hell, PIP, this is National Enquirer stuff!

I guess jealously can't be eliminated, but, really, if you had the money that Cindy McCain has, can you honestly say you wouldn't have a few "toys" too?



You are abolutely right......... maybe this is NE stuff........I aplogize (alittle).

BUT.....having said that, you can eliminate the jealousy theory....honestly. Perhaps it's the Yankee in me...... I can afford a few 'toys'........but find them to be a frivolous waste.
You don't think it's just a little 'over the top'......to be wearing a dress and shoes that are more $ than some folks make in a month?

[retailguy]

You are abolutely right......... maybe this is NE stuff........I aplogize (alittle).

BUT.....having said that, you can eliminate the jealousy theory....honestly. Perhaps it's the Yankee in me...... I can afford a few 'toys'........but find them to be a frivolous waste.

I find them to be a waste too, but I guess I don't penalize others for thinking differently. I saw a version of this story yesterday somewhere else, and clicked the link to Vanity Fair, so I knew the details.

Truth be told, I didn't click the yahoo link before responding, so I apologize for jumping to conclusions too. I thought you had saw the breakdown.

I don't know if the values were real, though I guess I question them, when they can put a value of $600 on the shoes, when they don't know what brand they are. Quite honestly, I'm not sure my wife would be caught dead in a $600 pair of pumps when her dress was well over $3k... (not that she wears that type of clothing, but you get my meaning)... Me thinks that the shoes have a much higher value.

Edit - and my jealousy comment was more directed at the media and the "legs" this story has got more than you directly. I just get tired of seeing these distortions, which happen on both sides of the aisle to a certain degree, and I just want them to end.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The correct answer is "who gives a shit?"

[LL2]

I bet Sarah Palin got her outfit at Target! She's the anti-establishment. She's one of us.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All this really means is that John McCain is smarter about economics than I thought.

[GBRulz]

It's very common for fashion designers, jewelers and handbag companies to loan things like this out for red carpet appearances and stuff. Heck, at the Oscar's this year, Diablo Cody's shoes alone were one million dollars.

On the other hand, the women are highly scrutinized when it comes to their looks. Do you ever hear the media having a 30 minute discussion on how tacky Obama looks with his dress shirt sleeves rolled up all the time? no. It's sad that the media has to focus on what look Sarah or Cindy need to do about their style. Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

[SkinBasket]

Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Good point, but I think you got it backwards. It was Hillary that made the pantsuits look cold and bitter.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's very common for fashion designers, jewelers and handbag companies to loan things like this out for red carpet appearances and stuff. Heck, at the Oscar's this year, Diablo Cody's shoes alone were one million dollars.

On the other hand, the women are highly scrutinized when it comes to their looks. Do you ever hear the media having a 30 minute discussion on how tacky Obama looks with his dress shirt sleeves rolled up all the time? no. It's sad that the media has to focus on what look Sarah or Cindy need to do about their style. Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Actually, you are wrong. I have heard the media discuss Obama's look and the need to appear similar to the voters. Hence the rolled up sleeves. That is the common look when you are trying to appear ready to work..and appear more blue collarish.

[packinpatland]

My initial post was not meant to be a fashion 'critique'......it was simply meant to point out the cost of what she was wearing.
Seems to me that if you're going to try to appeal to 'small town America'....then wearing a $3000 dress might not be the best way to endear your party to the everyday working class.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My initial post was not meant to be a fashion 'critique'......it was simply meant to point out the cost of what she was wearing.
Seems to me that if you're going to try to appeal to 'small town America'....then wearing a $3000 dress might not be the best way to endear your party to the everyday working class.

You act like it's the first time the wife of a politician wore expensive clothing. I'm pretty sure middle America isn't too insulted. In fact, most of middle America isn't jealous of others doing well. Good for Cindy McCain.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My initial post was not meant to be a fashion 'critique'......it was simply meant to point out the cost of what she was wearing.
Seems to me that if you're going to try to appeal to 'small town America'....then wearing a $3000 dress might not be the best way to endear your party to the everyday working class.

Are you suggesting that small town america doesn't wear 3K dresses. :roll:

Mccain defining rich, "I think if you're just talking about income, how about $5 million?"

Wonder how small town america defines being rich?

[Joemailman]

All this really means is that John McCain is smarter about economics than I thought.

That's true. He knew who to marry.

[mraynrand]

Mccain defining rich, "I think if you're just talking about income, how about $5 million?"

Wonder how small town america defines being rich?

The actual transcript:

Ok, on taxes, define "rich." Everybody talks about taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point - give me a number, give me a specific number - where do you move from middle class to rich?

Is it $100,000, is it $50,000, is it $200,000? How does anybody know if we don't know what the standards are? MCCAIN: Some of the richest people I've ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.

I don't want to take any money from the rich -- I want everybody to get rich.

(LAUGHTER)

I don't believe in class warfare or re-distribution of the wealth. But I can tell you, for example, there are small businessmen and women who are working 16 hours a day, seven days a week that some people would classify as - quote - "rich," my friends, and want to raise their taxes and want to raise their payroll taxes.

Let's have - keep taxes low. Let's give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let's not have the government take over the health care system in America.

(APPLAUSE)

So, I think if you are just talking about income, how about $5 million?

(LAUGHTER)

But seriously, I don't think you can - I don't think seriously that - the point is that I'm trying to make here, seriously -- and I'm sure that comment will be distorted (ed: Probably by guys like Ty Biggns) -- but the point is that we want to keep people's taxes low and increase revenues.

And, my friend, it was not taxes that mattered in America in the last several years. It was spending. Spending got completely out of control. We spent money in way that mortgaged our kids' futures.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

What did i distort. He was so far off from what most of america thinks is rich.

5 mill is 1/10 the top 1%.

Even the pastor thougth it would be in the lows six figures. You can spin away, but mccain is out of touch.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Same pandering that liberals have done for many years. It's really easy to say tax the rich. Does it make good economic sense? Hell no. Does it go against the ideals that this country was founded on? Hell yes.

[mraynrand]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

What did i distort. He was so far off from what most of america thinks is rich.

5 mill is 1/10 the top 1%.

Even the pastor thougth it would be in the lows six figures. You can spin away, but mccain is out of touch.

He was joking around and just pulled a number out of the air - CLEARLY.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

What did i distort. He was so far off from what most of america thinks is rich.

5 mill is 1/10 the top 1%.

Even the pastor thougth it would be in the lows six figures. You can spin away, but mccain is out of touch.

He was joking around and just pulled a number out of the air - CLEARLY.

He was clearly uneasy answering the qeustion..same as houses.

Joking..so, he wasn't going to answer the question...not like obama.

[mraynrand]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

What did i distort. He was so far off from what most of america thinks is rich.

5 mill is 1/10 the top 1%.

Even the pastor thougth it would be in the lows six figures. You can spin away, but mccain is out of touch.

He was joking around and just pulled a number out of the air - CLEARLY.

He was clearly uneasy answering the qeustion..same as houses.

Joking..so, he wasn't going to answer the question...not like obama.

Ha ha that's funny. Like Obama answered anything clearly in that forum at all. Most of the questions were above his pay grade, experience, etc.

[MJZiggy]

It's very common for fashion designers, jewelers and handbag companies to loan things like this out for red carpet appearances and stuff. Heck, at the Oscar's this year, Diablo Cody's shoes alone were one million dollars.

On the other hand, the women are highly scrutinized when it comes to their looks. Do you ever hear the media having a 30 minute discussion on how tacky Obama looks with his dress shirt sleeves rolled up all the time? no. It's sad that the media has to focus on what look Sarah or Cindy need to do about their style. Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Usually when those types of loans are made, they highly publicize who did the loaning. I bet you know (or could easily find out) where Diablo Cody got her shoes.

I agree with you about the differences in the scrutiny of men vs. women in the political arena. Hillary was not only criticized for her pantsuits, do you remember the flap about her hair and the headbands?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

What did i distort. He was so far off from what most of america thinks is rich.

5 mill is 1/10 the top 1%.

Even the pastor thougth it would be in the lows six figures. You can spin away, but mccain is out of touch.

He was joking around and just pulled a number out of the air - CLEARLY.

He was clearly uneasy answering the qeustion..same as houses.

Joking..so, he wasn't going to answer the question...not like obama.

Ha ha that's funny. Like Obama answered anything clearly in that forum at all. Most of the questions were above his pay grade, experience, etc.

Spin away. Obama answered the question..he defined what he thought was rich.

Mccain joked.

And, it is inconsistent with his criticisms of the Bush tax cut. Ooops.


I don’t think the governor’s tax cut is too big–it’s just misplaced. Sixty percent of the benefits from his tax cuts go to the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans–and that’s not the kind of tax relief that Americans need. … I don’t believe the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans should get 60 percent of the tax breaks. I think the lowest 10 percent should get the breaks.

[mraynrand]

McCAIN: "I think that rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited."

Amen.

[GBRulz]

It's very common for fashion designers, jewelers and handbag companies to loan things like this out for red carpet appearances and stuff. Heck, at the Oscar's this year, Diablo Cody's shoes alone were one million dollars.

On the other hand, the women are highly scrutinized when it comes to their looks. Do you ever hear the media having a 30 minute discussion on how tacky Obama looks with his dress shirt sleeves rolled up all the time? no. It's sad that the media has to focus on what look Sarah or Cindy need to do about their style. Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Actually, you are wrong. I have heard the media discuss Obama's look and the need to appear similar to the voters. Hence the rolled up sleeves. That is the common look when you are trying to appear ready to work..and appear more blue collarish.

The media talks about the style of the women and the importance of their appearance MUCH more than they discuss the men. That's the point and no, I am not wrong...I don't care what wiki told you this time!

George W also wears his sleeves rolled up alot. Obviously, looks can be deceiving.

[GBRulz]

Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Good point, but I think you got it backwards. It was Hillary that made the pantsuits look cold and bitter.

Good call, Skin.

[Scott Campbell]

You don't think it's just a little 'over the top'......to be wearing a dress and shoes that are more $ than some folks make in a month?


I don't want the government telling me how to spend my familes money. In return, I won't tell the leader of our government how to spend his families money.

[Scott Campbell]

Mccain defining rich, "I think if you're just talking about income, how about $5 million?"

Wonder how small town america defines being rich?



I think small town America would define $5M/year as being rich too.

[MJZiggy]

It's very common for fashion designers, jewelers and handbag companies to loan things like this out for red carpet appearances and stuff. Heck, at the Oscar's this year, Diablo Cody's shoes alone were one million dollars.

On the other hand, the women are highly scrutinized when it comes to their looks. Do you ever hear the media having a 30 minute discussion on how tacky Obama looks with his dress shirt sleeves rolled up all the time? no. It's sad that the media has to focus on what look Sarah or Cindy need to do about their style. Same focus was made on Hillary's pantsuits and how her dark colors made her appear cold and bitter.

Actually, you are wrong. I have heard the media discuss Obama's look and the need to appear similar to the voters. Hence the rolled up sleeves. That is the common look when you are trying to appear ready to work..and appear more blue collarish.

The media talks about the style of the women and the importance of their appearance MUCH more than they discuss the men. That's the point and no, I am not wrong...I don't care what wiki told you this time!

George W also wears his sleeves rolled up alot. Obviously, looks can be deceiving.

How many articles have we seen over the last week or so comparing the fashion stylings of Michelle/Sarah, or Michelle/Cindy? I don't recall the Barack/John wardrobe discussions....

[Scott Campbell]

How many articles have we seen over the last week or so comparing the fashion stylings of Michelle/Sarah, or Michelle/Cindy? I don't recall the Barack/John wardrobe discussions....



Men's fashion is predictable and conservative. Not much to talk about. Unless one of them wore a bowling shirt.

[GBRulz]

How many articles have we seen over the last week or so comparing the fashion stylings of Michelle/Sarah, or Michelle/Cindy? I don't recall the Barack/John wardrobe discussions....

No kidding. The softer style Jackie O look is what Michelle O is going for... this morning it was all about Palin's glasses and how demand for those frames is suddenly super popular.... yeah, I'm with you there, they are always talking about what the women are wearing.

Poor Hillary, she's missing all of this....although like you said, she had her spotlight with the hair and headbands thing...

[MJZiggy]

How many articles have we seen over the last week or so comparing the fashion stylings of Michelle/Sarah, or Michelle/Cindy? I don't recall the Barack/John wardrobe discussions....

No kidding. The softer style Jackie O look is what Michelle O is going for... this morning it was all about Palin's glasses and how demand for those frames is suddenly super popular.... yeah, I'm with you there, they are always talking about what the women are wearing.

Poor Hillary, she's missing all of this....although like you said, she had her spotlight with the hair and headbands thing...

Oh would that my worst fashion catastrophe was a headband (and if all those women think that a pair of glasses will make them look like Sarah Palin...)

[SkinBasket]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

Then you'll know that when asked about integrity being the basis of leadership, Obama replied: "I experimented with drugs and I drank."

Just as fair a snippet as yours. Except Obama wasn't joking.



The following quote was also laughable considering your long and morally devoid defense of Obama's complete lack of regard for his starving half brother living off $12 a year and literally fighting with his fists to stay alive:

"Obama: I think America’s greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we ... still don’t abide by that ... basic precept in Matthew that: 'whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.' And that notion of — that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not ... thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class.

I mean, there’s a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don’t spend enough time thinking about the least of these."

He just totally projected his own moral failure on the nation as a whole. I knew a guy like that once. He would come out of the only restroom at work and say, "The toilet got broke." Not, "I broke the toilet." I don't need a "the toilet got broke" kind of guy leading our nation.

[mraynrand]

I don’t think the governor’s tax cut is too big–it’s just misplaced. Sixty percent of the benefits from his tax cuts go to the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans–and that’s not the kind of tax relief that Americans need. … I don’t believe the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans should get 60 percent of the tax breaks. I think the lowest 10 percent should get the breaks.


Subject: The Tax Code

A simplified explanation of its economic affects on taxpayers… and bums.

Let’s put tax cuts in terms we can understand:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would
go something like this, according to earnings:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59 So, that’s what they decided
to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed
quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them
a curve.”Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to
reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.”

Dinner for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what
about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man
wouldeach end up being paid to eat their meal. So, the restaurant
owner suggested:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings… the least
proportionate savings) Each of the six paying customers was better off
than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings:
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man,” but he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the
fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times
more than me!” “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he
get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait
a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at
all. The system exploits the poor!”

As a consequence, the first nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him
badly. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine
sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might
start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[hoosier]

I know the transcript...i watched saddleback.

Then you'll know that when asked about integrity being the basis of leadership, Obama replied: "I experimented with drugs and I drank."

Just as fair a snippet as yours. Except Obama wasn't joking.

The following quote was also laughable considering your long and morally devoid defense of Obama's complete lack of regard for his starving half brother living off $12 a year and literally fighting with his fists to stay alive:

"Obama: I think America’s greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we ... still don’t abide by that ... basic precept in Matthew that: 'whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.' And that notion of — that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not ... thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class.

I mean, there’s a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don’t spend enough time thinking about the least of these."

He just totally projected his own moral failure on the nation as a whole. I knew a guy like that once. He would come out of the only restroom at work and say, "The toilet got broke." Not, "I broke the toilet." I don't need a "the toilet got broke" kind of guy leading our nation.

Obama's father abandoned Obama and his mom when BO was 2 years old. He had no contact with his father's side of the family after that. The fact that he wasn't aware of having a half-brother in Africa--or that he hasn't treated him like a brother since--is hardly surprising given the family circumstances. But you wouldn't be interested in trifling details like that when there's a political point to be scored, would you?

[retailguy]

Obama's father abandoned Obama and his mom when BO was 2 years old. He had no contact with his father's side of the family after that. The fact that he wasn't aware of having a half-brother in Africa--or that he hasn't treated him like a brother since--is hardly surprising given the family circumstances. But you wouldn't be interested in trifling details like that when there's a political point to be scored, would you?

Hoosier, Obama is continually pontificating about the importance of taking care of those less fortunate. His brother lives on ONE DOLLAR a month. He gets ZERO help from Obama. Obama knows who he is and has known for quite a while. He even refers to him, and his existence in his book.

Therefore, it is a legitimate question, of why should you and I "feel" obligated to those less fortunate, when Barack doesn't feel obligated to his own blood relation.

I don't give a damn about a "political point". Why should I respect someone who expects me to do something that he himself is not willing to do? That's YOUR candidate. Not mine.

[SkinBasket]

Obama's father abandoned Obama and his mom when BO was 2 years old. He had no contact with his father's side of the family after that. The fact that he wasn't aware of having a half-brother in Africa--or that he hasn't treated him like a brother since--is hardly surprising given the family circumstances. But you wouldn't be interested in trifling details like that when there's a political point to be scored, would you?

'whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.'

[hoosier]

Obama's father abandoned Obama and his mom when BO was 2 years old. He had no contact with his father's side of the family after that. The fact that he wasn't aware of having a half-brother in Africa--or that he hasn't treated him like a brother since--is hardly surprising given the family circumstances. But you wouldn't be interested in trifling details like that when there's a political point to be scored, would you?

Hoosier, Obama is continually pontificating about the importance of taking care of those less fortunate. His brother lives on ONE DOLLAR a month. He gets ZERO help from Obama. Obama knows who he is and has known for quite a while. He even refers to him, and his existence in his book.

Therefore, it is a legitimate question, of why should you and I "feel" obligated to those less fortunate, when Barack doesn't feel obligated to his own blood relation.

I don't give a damn about a "political point". Why should I respect someone who expects me to do something that he himself is not willing to do? That's YOUR candidate. Not mine.

I don't know the whole story behind Obama and his brother. I DO know that family relations, especially in circumstances like Obama's, can get complicated and that it can be very difficult for outsiders to understand how siblings (or half siblings) relate to each other--becoming estranged, etc.

While we focus all of our attention on the family context, there is another angle to this story: Obama's half-brother lives in Africa, 5000 miles and an ocean away. Obama is talking about how our nation and its government deals with its own poor. He's not trying to propose a universal policy to help the poor around the world, nor is he just talking about how individuals help other individuals out. In the quote that Skinsack was referring to, "brother" was a metaphor for neighbor or fellow American. The fact that Obama hasn't reached out to a biological half-brother who lives in another continent is not, IMO, a good reason to doubt his sincerity when it comes to social policy IN THE USA.

[retailguy]

I don't know the whole story behind Obama and his brother. I DO know that family relations, especially in circumstances like Obama's, can get complicated and that it can be very difficult for outsiders to understand how siblings (or half siblings) relate to each other--becoming estranged, etc.

While we focus all of our attention on the family context, there is another angle to this story: Obama's half-brother lives in Africa, 5000 miles and an ocean away. Obama is talking about how our nation and its government deals with its own poor. He's not trying to propose a universal policy to help the poor around the world, nor is he just talking about how individuals help other individuals out. In the quote that Skinsack was referring to, "brother" was a metaphor for neighbor or fellow American. The fact that Obama hasn't reached out to a biological half-brother who lives in another continent is not, IMO, a good reason to doubt his sincerity when it comes to social policy IN THE USA.


Maybe you should read the story about him and his "brother". Because for me, it defines character. Call me naive, but I think it displays who Obama really is. $50 a month via Western Union would absolutely change that man's life. Surely Obama is able to discern that the sins of the father don't apply to the family? Surely, his brother had little to do with the father abandoning Obama and his mother? Surely, there must be "some draw" on Obama's part to help even a distant family member.

Don't you find it curious that Obama is seemingly determining that he owes his brother 'no help' which may be true in theory, but also determines that you and I must participate in a wealth redistribution program that we have no say in? Maybe I don't want to help the people Obama wants to help?

It's hypocritical. While I recognize it's an extreme example, it is a window into Barack character. I find it important. I recognize that you don't and will continue to minimize it's importance.

[Scott Campbell]

In the quote that Skinsack was referring to, "brother" was a metaphor for neighbor or fellow American.


Well it was a poor word choice given his own circumstances. I guess everybody says stupid stuff now and then. And Obama is no different in that regard.

[packinpatland]

Seeing as how this thread is no longer about Cindy McCain's attire, let me throw this in:

"But through this campaign McCain has transformed into a more conventional Republican. He's embraced the Bush tax cuts he once opposed, devised a health care plan that largely tracks Bush's, and renounced his own immigration bill. He's echoed the Republican call for more offshore drilling (after long opposing it) and, judging by the exuberant speech from running mate Sarah Palin, seems en route to reversing his opposition to drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, too. In choosing Palin over the other vice-presidential possibilities that most intrigued him -- Sen. Joe Lieberman and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, each of whom supports legalized abortion -- McCain deferred to the social conservatives central to the modern GOP coalition. Voters who choose McCain in November will be picking a president whose personal ideology places him near Bush on most major issues."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26563256/

[texaspackerbacker]

The thing I noticed--and really enjoyed--was Cindy's new hairstyle.

John McCain may not have felt pressure to outdo Sarah Palin, but Cindy apparently did--and I'd say she succeeded. Both of them, however, were runnerups in hotness to Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee. Her early Thursday evening speech was on C-Span.

[hoosier]

Maybe you should read the story about him and his "brother". Because for me, it defines character. Call me naive, but I think it displays who Obama really is. $50 a month via Western Union would absolutely change that man's life. Surely Obama is able to discern that the sins of the father don't apply to the family? Surely, his brother had little to do with the father abandoning Obama and his mother? Surely, there must be "some draw" on Obama's part to help even a distant family member.

Don't you find it curious that Obama is seemingly determining that he owes his brother 'no help' which may be true in theory, but also determines that you and I must participate in a wealth redistribution program that we have no say in? Maybe I don't want to help the people Obama wants to help?

It's hypocritical. While I recognize it's an extreme example, it is a window into Barack character. I find it important. I recognize that you don't and will continue to minimize it's importance.

Whose version of the story would you suggest that I "read"? The Telegraph's? Rush's? Hannity's? I find it interesting that the Right seems to accept the negative interpretations of the situation, which--from the admittedly small amount of reading I've done--seem to me to be based on little more than a desire to destroy Obama's character. Have any of those who are going on about Obama's "terrible abandonment of his half-brother" bothered to find out what the brother wants? What if he doesn't want help? Or what Barack is thinking? Aside from the Telegraph/Vanity Fair interview, the only news story I've read where a reporter has bothered to talk to the source is CNN, which interviewed the brother in Nairobi. He states that he's doing well and that the Telegraph/VF painted a very distorted picture. To be perfectly fair, it's possible that George is embarrassed by the attention and is criticizing the "abandoment" story because he wants most of all to maintain his dignity (that's what I would want), but it's also possible that (a) he isn't desparate and/or (b) that he doesn't want anyone's help. Those who assume the worst, I think, are doing so because of convenience--because they don't like Obama or his proposed social policies. Attack those, don't engage in character assassination.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/22/mckenzie.obama.half.brother.cnn?iref=videosearch

[HowardRoark]

Wonder how small town america defines being rich?

Is Eau Claire a small town?

John Menard, Jr.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John R. Menard, Jr. (born 1940) is an American entrepreneur who is the founder and owner of Menards, a major Midwestern home improvement store chain. Menard is also a partner in Robby Gordon Motorsports with NASCAR owner/driver Robby Gordon, and is the father of NASCAR driver Paul Menard.

As early as 1959, Menard ran a business constructing pole buildings with friends from college.[citation needed]

A 1963 graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, Menard opened his first hardware store in 1972. As of 2005, his company owned 203 stores resulting in an estimated $5.5 billion in sales. He makes his home in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. His son is Paul Menard, driver of the #15 Menards Chevrolet in the NASCAR SPRINT Cup Series. Menard also owns an engine shop in the United Kingdom that produced engines for Team Menard and Robby Gordon Motorsports and was the owner of Team Menard which won the 1997 and 1999 Indy Racing League championships.

Menard had a net worth of $7.3 billion in 2007, according to the Forbes 400, and is the richest person in Wisconsin.[1]

Menard is also engaged and due to marry... (2008)

Menard, founder and head of the Menards home improvement retail chain, said yes in a big way Wednesday when he gave $15 million to support Luther Midelfort's new emergency services department and to help Mayo Clinic educate and train health professionals.

Think of all the cool stuff Obama could have done with $15 million.

[mraynrand]

Wonder how small town america defines being rich?

Is Eau Claire a small town?

John Menard, Jr.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John R. Menard, Jr. (born 1940) is an American entrepreneur who is the founder and owner of Menards, a major Midwestern home improvement store chain. Menard is also a partner in Robby Gordon Motorsports with NASCAR owner/driver Robby Gordon, and is the father of NASCAR driver Paul Menard.

As early as 1959, Menard ran a business constructing pole buildings with friends from college.[citation needed]

A 1963 graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, Menard opened his first hardware store in 1972. As of 2005, his company owned 203 stores resulting in an estimated $5.5 billion in sales. He makes his home in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. His son is Paul Menard, driver of the #15 Menards Chevrolet in the NASCAR SPRINT Cup Series. Menard also owns an engine shop in the United Kingdom that produced engines for Team Menard and Robby Gordon Motorsports and was the owner of Team Menard which won the 1997 and 1999 Indy Racing League championships.

Menard had a net worth of $7.3 billion in 2007, according to the Forbes 400, and is the richest person in Wisconsin.[1]

Menard is also engaged and due to marry... (2008)

Menard, founder and head of the Menards home improvement retail chain, said yes in a big way Wednesday when he gave $15 million to support Luther Midelfort's new emergency services department and to help Mayo Clinic educate and train health professionals.

Think of all the cool stuff Obama could have done with $15 million.

You should see what he did with at least 50 million in Annenberg challenge money working on the board with Bil Ayers in Chicago. Oh that's right - he didn't accomplish anything - but he did try to undermine the principals of the Chicago School system and impose a radical agenda.

[retailguy]

Whose version of the story would you suggest that I "read"? The Telegraph's? Rush's? Hannity's? I find it interesting that the Right seems to accept the negative interpretations of the situation, which--from the admittedly small amount of reading I've done--seem to me to be based on little more than a desire to destroy Obama's character. Have any of those who are going on about Obama's "terrible abandonment of his half-brother" bothered to find out what the brother wants? What if he doesn't want help? Or what Barack is thinking? Aside from the Telegraph/Vanity Fair interview, the only news story I've read where a reporter has bothered to talk to the source is CNN, which interviewed the brother in Nairobi. He states that he's doing well and that the Telegraph/VF painted a very distorted picture. To be perfectly fair, it's possible that George is embarrassed by the attention and is criticizing the "abandoment" story because he wants most of all to maintain his dignity (that's what I would want), but it's also possible that (a) he isn't desparate and/or (b) that he doesn't want anyone's help. Those who assume the worst, I think, are doing so because of convenience--because they don't like Obama or his proposed social policies. Attack those, don't engage in character assassination.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/22/mckenzie.obama.half.brother.cnn?iref=videosearch

Well, you said earlier that you weren't familiar with the story. Guess you are. Whether you were then or are now, I guess that doesn't matter. You can dismiss it no matter what version you read, hell, I expected that, but in the process you proved my point, sort of.

I maintained that the only thing that matters is what Obama thinks. He thinks his brother is happy, therefore he is. I don't know what you read that said Obama's brother is happy, but lets just say he is happy. I now think we should send a community organizer over there so they can inform the poor soul about his lot in life.

Hoosier, the guy is living on a dollar a month. Are you really convinced that everyone is exaggerating his position? really?

Why don't you take all the stories you've read and pick out the points that are the same in all of them. Perhaps the beginning of truth starts there.

I wanted you to know one reason why I distrust Obama. I recognize that there is NO WAY on this earth that you'll ever alter your beliefs. They're set. You love the guy in spite of his faults. I just can't believe you can't see them.

I see McCains. He's way too liberal for me. I'm not fooled by the shift right. he needs to do that to get elected. It's the way of life. Too bad that you're incapable of seeing that Obama is not the second coming of Christ...

[texaspackerbacker]

He's the ANTI-CHRIST--I got an email saying so, so it must be true.

[retailguy]

He's the ANTI-CHRIST--I got an email saying so, so it must be true.


Nah. Too many people see that he's evil. Unless there is a pending rapture, we're probably OK on that front. :wink:

[hoosier]

Well, you said earlier that you weren't familiar with the story. Guess you are. Whether you were then or are now, I guess that doesn't matter. You can dismiss it no matter what version you read, hell, I expected that, but in the process you proved my point, sort of.

I maintained that the only thing that matters is what Obama thinks. He thinks his brother is happy, therefore he is. I don't know what you read that said Obama's brother is happy, but lets just say he is happy. I now think we should send a community organizer over there so they can inform the poor soul about his lot in life.

Hoosier, the guy is living on a dollar a month. Are you really convinced that everyone is exaggerating his position?

I'm convinced that everyone on the Right is using the Telegraph/VF article as ammunition for the character assassination of someone whose politics they don't like. I'm convinced that none of them have done any serious thinking or research of their own that would either butress or call into question what we have learned from the VF article. The only news source that appears to have done so is CNN, and what they found, while somewhat ambiguous, seems to call into question the dire image of a suffering half-brother painted by the Telegraph.


I wanted you to know one reason why I distrust Obama. I recognize that there is NO WAY on this earth that you'll ever alter your beliefs. They're set. You love the guy in spite of his faults. I just can't believe you can't see them.

I see McCains. He's way too liberal for me. I'm not fooled by the shift right. he needs to do that to get elected. It's the way of life. Too bad that you're incapable of seeing that Obama is not the second coming of Christ...

Your ability to decipher my political feelings about Obama--despite my never having posted anything about them here--is uncanny. You must be very powerful indeed.

For the record, Obama was not my first choice in the primary season. Like you, I'm stuck with two choices that I view as less than ideal, and like you, I side with the one who says things that come closer to what I want, or who I believe would do less damage.

[SkinBasket]

I'm convinced that everyone on the Right is using the Telegraph/VF article as ammunition for the character assassination of someone whose politics they don't like.

You're convinced of a lot of things. That's kind of been made obvious.

I'm not interested in "assassinating" anyone's character. I'm not sure how to go about it, and I don't look very good in black. I think it's because I'm too pale. I am interested in letting a man's actions speak louder than his words, no matter how pretty they are or how many times they're punctuated with glorious, well practiced stares off into the heavens.

I know, I know, you're seeing character assassination in the reporting of this story. I'm seeing a lack of any character to assassinate.

[Joemailman]

Obama's brother speaks:

"Huruma is a tough place, last January during the elections there was rioting and six people were hacked to death," he said.

"The police don't even arrest you they just shoot you. I have seen two of my friends killed. I have scars from defending myself with my fists. I am good with my fists."

Now, the shy but bright Mr Obama said, "I want to work hard and get myself to somewhere more comfortable".

He will not be calling on his famous brother for help, however.

"We have only met twice, once when I was five or six, and again in 2006," he said. " I cannot say that we are close, he probably does not even think about me. I am not going to start pestering him, I don't want to look to him for help, I want to achieve things for myself.

"I don't even tell people that I am related to Barack Obama, I don't want people here to be harassing me because they think I have money or influence. I have nothing like that, I am a person who likes to live quietly.

"I don't have any ambitions to do anything like politics, in Kenya, that means nothing. I read the newspapers, but only the sport section. Sometimes I am sure there are things about Barack which I miss, but it doesn't matter to me.

"Of course, if I was in the US I would vote for him, I think everyone should. But I am a bit biased," he joked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2595688/Barack-Obama-is-my-inspiration-says-lost-brother.html

[SkinBasket]

Notice he said he said he didn't want help. He didn't say he has turned down help. After all, we're talking about what this relationship says about Barak, not George.

"He probably does not even think about me."

[Scott Campbell]

Hmm. Clearly not estranged. More a case of no relationship at all - bad or good.

[packinpatland]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080907/pl_politico/13216

Think McCain will be like JFK and not accept a paypcheck?

[SkinBasket]

With how much some of these folks make, you would think the goodwill it would create would be worth it. You really can't do a decent thing these days without someone shitting all over it to try to make some kind of point, though. Some elements would find a way to spin a goodwill effort into some political talking point.

[MJZiggy]

Seeing as how this thread is no longer about Cindy McCain's attire, let me throw this in:

"But through this campaign McCain has transformed into a more conventional Republican. He's embraced the Bush tax cuts he once opposed, devised a health care plan that largely tracks Bush's, and renounced his own immigration bill. He's echoed the Republican call for more offshore drilling (after long opposing it) and, judging by the exuberant speech from running mate Sarah Palin, seems en route to reversing his opposition to drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, too. In choosing Palin over the other vice-presidential possibilities that most intrigued him -- Sen. Joe Lieberman and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, each of whom supports legalized abortion -- McCain deferred to the social conservatives central to the modern GOP coalition. Voters who choose McCain in November will be picking a president whose personal ideology places him near Bush on most major issues."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26563256/

These sentiments were mirrored by the Washington Post on Friday. Anyone know why he co-authored an immigration bill and then voted against his own bill?